I think he makes a valid point. The simmers on the forum, and Facebook, and Twitter could account for a small fraction of the Sims 4 sales and the majority of those purchasing have no knowledge of the discontent and probably don't care.
Another possibility is they don't want anything to do with the negativity. I may give a thumbs up on a YouTube video, but you won't catch me reading the comments let alone leaving one. It's one thing to have the fourth comment on a new video be something totally unrelated like "What about toddlers?", but some of the stuff I've seen in comments there can make a Yahoo news article look like Sesame Street.
The devs are really nice on Twitter, but again I don't have a lot of time to ask questions or leave feedback positive or negative. I'm too busy doing other things throughout the day including gaming or popping in here for a few.
"That person who helps others simply because it should or must be done, and because it is the right thing to do, is indeed without a doubt, a real superhero." - Stan Lee
I was an invisible player in 2001, when I briefly played and soon after quit playing Sims 1. I never complained, nor did I learn about cheats which might have kept me playing had I known. And I was an invisible player between January - August 2010, when I played and enjoyed Sims 3. Then I registered on a forum that was all about sharing stories and pictures and that certainly added a very important dimension to my game: Sims 3 became two games. Playing + using screenshots to tell stories. I enjoy both equally. That was and is a small community though and not English speaking, so in a way we were and are quite invisible there as well I guess To EA that is.
I don't know if I'm invisible. I've always played with telemetry turned off, but I've always registered my games. I do the same with all software.
I may not always care to share my experiences, but lately, I have, and I believe it has a lot to do with disappointment. It's strange how some join together through shared joy. People like me though, stay silent until they're unhappy. Guess that's what makes me a grumpy player
But also a happy invisible player (just not now)
Actually, I am a happy invisible player. As I'm not playing the game I'm discussing at all. It's been months since I've played S4. The game I'm enjoying is keeping me quiet. That is, until I'm not playing it, like now. Not near my computer.
If that's the game I hope it is I'm happy too No, in fact if it's another game I'm happy for you too haha. I'm quite happy exploring 2 myself at the moment by the way.
The writer of this article is defining "invisible players" as people who simply buy the game and play it. No interaction on forums, review sites, social media, or YouTube. Sure, they are not truly invisible (in the literal sense of the word) to the game company because obviously the company has the sale numbers: they know how many players exist. And EA has telemetry, and they can learn certain things about players. But the writer isn't talking about telemetry; he's talking about social interaction between players, reviewers, and sometimes developers, specifically on social media and websites.
I can imagine by the way that Sims may have more fans that become part of an experience sharing community than other games, because telling stories, playing challenges and showing screenshots is such an important ingredient in this game for many. And nobody's game is the same. Even sims look different because of CAS possibilities and CC. I may be wrong though, I don't play other games myself.
My personal verdict after this very enlightening discussion: Don't trust the atmosphere towards the The Sims 4 in this forum since it's not suitable to reflect the reality or even give a trend on how well the game is received by the 'audience' out there. One reason might be the small pool of people who frequently visit the forum to share their opinion, it just does not work this way unfortunately.
Yes, I think that makes sense.
So what does this mean for EA now? How do they determine which features make the game become 'good' or at least would satisfy this big group of invisible players?
However, I think that we, the 'older simmers', those who are used to play the older Sims games, underestimate the amount of new and young players Sims 4 introduced to the series and their effect on the game!
My personal verdict after this very enlightening discussion: Don't trust the atmosphere towards the The Sims 4 in this forum since it's not suitable to reflect the reality or even give a trend on how well the game is received by the 'audience' out there. One reason might be the small pool of people who frequently visit the forum to share their opinion, it just does not work this way unfortunately.
Yes, I think that makes sense.
So what does this mean for EA now? How do they determine which features make the game become 'good' or at least would satisfy this big group of invisible players?
However, I think that we, the 'older simmers', those who are used to play the older Sims games, underestimate the amount of new and young players Sims 4 introduced to the series and their effect on the game!
Thanks for your enlightening verdict but what about that very silent crowd of people on the other forum I mentioned, where nobody ever bashes or complains but hardly shares any Sims 4 play (after having shared loads of Sims 2 and 3 play for years) and when asked declare to buy the upcoming GP 'when it's on sale', 'comes in a bundle' and 'after having bought about everything that this franchise delivered I think I'm done buying for the moment'?
Good question! I have no idea how far away those people you are referring to are from the prototype of a typical Sims 4 player when it comes to their consume behavior and enjoyment of the game and how significant their actions affect the 'general' view of it, so I am afraid I can't answer your question to your satisfaction.
The writer of this article is defining "invisible players" as people who simply buy the game and play it. No interaction on forums, review sites, social media, or YouTube. Sure, they are not truly invisible (in the literal sense of the word) to the game company because obviously the company has the sale numbers: they know how many players exist. And EA has telemetry, and they can learn certain things about players. But the writer isn't talking about telemetry; he's talking about social interaction between players, reviewers, and sometimes developers, specifically on social media and websites.
I can imagine by the way that Sims may have more fans that become part of an experience sharing community than other games, because telling stories, playing challenges and showing screenshots is such an important ingredient in this game for many. And nobody's game is the same. Even sims look different because of CAS possibilities and CC. I may be wrong though, I don't play other games myself.
I agree that Sims is unique in that aspect. It fosters more of a community feel than most other games. However I'm curious why you quoted that post, as it was just meant to clarify the author's use of the phrase "invisible gamers".
For EA, (or any business company, really, in any industry), money talks. At least, that's what I think, anyway.
We can shout and cry and complain all we want, but, in the end, in my opinion, the money does most of the talking.
Sims 3 was a cash cow success, despite some simmers' complaints.
(I left sims 3 and went back to sims 2, for most of sims 3 lifetime, instead of pointlessly voicing my complaints. I remembered that the Sims 3 forums was filled with so many pro fan peeps, some of whom kept dissing sims 1 and 2 for their "old-ness" and closed lots, and many kept saying it was simmers' fault for sims 3 games not working, so I eventually felt like sims community was not for me, and I just played the older games, and moved on from sims 3. It just got worse in sims 4 forums, but I have always felt that unwelcome vibe in the sims forums, even back in sims 3, so...Still getting blamed for having a cruddy sims 3 experience by sims 3 fans, so no changes, I guess.)
I have no clue about sims 4 being a financial success or not, though.
If they pull the plug in a few years, then it didn't make enough money to offset the costs of creating new content, 3D models, and animations, etc.
If sims 4 continues on, then maybe it did make enough money to offset the cost of creating content.
For me, it's simple as that. People have been taking about the evils of EA for a very, very long time, (even around sims 3 timeframe), and EA is still around, making money, apparently. *shrugs*
IMHO, It's the cold, hard cash that counts.
*sings Borderlands song* "You know there...Ain't no rest for the wicked--money don't grow on tree; got bills to pay and mouths to feed; ain't nothin' in this world for free...No rest for the wicked--until we close our eyes for good..."
@bunny-🐸🐸🐸🐸 I am sorry that you have been made to feel unwelcome
People shouldn't forget that there will always be newer Simmers coming onto the scene who never played The Sims before and so they are not really missing past content so they might not get all of the 'when you adding X Y & Z' hype.
I myself am from the very beginning, Easter 2000 so pre EP1 but even back on the glorious BBS I do remember there would be the odd snide comment towards a 'noob' who might have been stuck doing something. I joined the BBS in August or September 2000 when I was still in school and most of the older Simmers were welcoming back then. I was regarded as a 'reg' back on those boards but was mostly a lurker in later years and through most of the TS2 BBS and apart from the CAW section of the old forums, I seldom posted elsewhere.
I stepped in full time after watching the old forums explode pre TS4 launch and have watched this place go up and down ever since.
Sadly different opinions are not always welcome and it can be off putting towards some of the newer players who just want to sign up and talk about The Sims without someone trying to debate with them.
@bunny-🐸🐸🐸🐸 I am sorry that you have been made to feel unwelcome
People shouldn't forget that there will always be newer Simmers coming onto the scene who never played The Sims before and so they are not really missing past content so they might not get all of the 'when you adding X Y & Z' hype.
I myself am from the very beginning, Easter 2000 so pre EP1 but even back on the glorious BBS I do remember there would be the odd snide comment towards a 'noob' who might have been stuck doing something. I joined the BBS in August or September 2000 when I was still in school and most of the older Simmers were welcoming back then. I was regarded as a 'reg' back on those boards but was mostly a lurker in later years and through most of the TS2 BBS and apart from the CAW section of the old forums, I seldom posted elsewhere.
I stepped in full time after watching the old forums explode pre TS4 launch and have watched this place go up and down ever since.
Sadly different opinions are not always welcome and it can be off putting towards some of the newer players who just want to sign up and talk about The Sims without someone trying to debate with them.
With sims 4, I still feel a bit weird, because I'm a player who does enjoy and even love some parts of TS4, while still finding it lacking in some areas, but I'm also still waiting for toddlers for ts4, and I'm not a big fan of Ts3.
So it feels like I'm a rag-tag player who has mixed feelings.
It sometimes feel like you have to choose a side for a particular sims game: Either you're pro TS3 or you're not. Either you're pro TS 4, or you're not.
Then, people keep fighting over likes and dislikes, and simmers have to keep justifying their likes and dislikes.
Also, some simmers keep insulting other simmers for liking TS4 and not liking TS3, saying ts4 is for dumbed down, casual, "not real"/"true simmer" fans, etc. That doesn't help the already volatile atmosphere, either.
Sorry, no sympathy for the anti-TS4 peeps with that kind of attitude. (It only makes me want to love TS4 even more, because I'm a rebel that way, lol!)
For example, I didn't like sims 3. I just don't! I just want other simmers to accept that I don't like it, and to not debate with me about it, or especially! to not try to pressure and convince me that I'm doing something wrong. Because, who could hate sims 3, unless there's something wrong with them or their computers, etc?
I highly dislike sims 3, and I like sims 4 better in some ways. I know it's hard for some simmers (especially anti-TS4/pro-TS3 peeps), to accept that. But they need to accept that, and to please stop debating me about my own personal feelings.
Another example is: I want toddlers, too. I won't be convinced to shut up about it, either. Some simmers are determined to insult or shut us toddler-lovers up. No, I refuse to be pressured to be shut up. I will continue to ask for toddlers until TS4 gets them, or when TS4 ends.
These are my personal opinions, and no one can convince me to shut up about them. End of story.
You can tell from the ads to the game design what the target market for ts4 is. People who enjoyed the previous sims games aren't included in that target market. If they get some of them then great, but those of us that enjoyed sims 2 and 3 weren't part of sim 4. They chose to go after the new generation of gamer where there is a larger market and build on that. I think they knew they would lose lots of long time simmers in the process, but thought they would gain enough new simmers to offset things.
I don't think they expected the backlash they got and the numbers aren't glaring. Had they been record setting, you would have heard about it and would still be hearing about it. I think the game will stay afloat, but the damage has already been done, they chose their audience, their direction for the game, and they aren't going to change any of that now or in the future.
I agree there are many, many more then those here on the forum, I never went to a forum or any where until near the end of Sims 3 and I played 1, 2, and 3 and of course now sims 4. I never knew there was a forum as I always brought a disk. I only found the forum by mistake. I loved the Sims 3 forum, but Sims 4 forum well . . . . . . lets just leave it at that.
I've played Sims since the first one came out in 2000. I've been a member of all the forums, but don't regularly post; though I do read them regularly. So yes, I think these people (me!) are keeping the games going.
I've been playing since TS1. My favorite games are TS2 and TS4. Origin ID- manda102784
I think he makes a valid point. The simmers on the forum, and Facebook, and Twitter could account for a small fraction of the Sims 4 sales and the majority of those purchasing have no knowledge of the discontent and probably don't care.
The Simmers that aren't registered to any Sims based site doesn't care. Or doesn't have the time to join a community site because they might play The Sims for an hour or two. Then either play another video game, or go to work or school, depending on the time where they are.
Or they play for hours and hours and care about their game a lot, but they don't have any interest in interacting with other Simmers, and they just hit "like" on a post if they agree with it but never post themselves or only use Origin-based feedback to say what they want.
I have friends who are invisible Simmers. Most play a few other games. None is involved with any Simming community. The only reason I found out they play Sims is that they've mentioned it when among friends.
My son's girlfriend can play for hours but has less than zero interest in communicating about her game with other Simmers (we've chatted casually about the game, though). She plays lots of other games too but has zero interest in giving feedback etc. about them, either.
Gamers like this are the bread and butter of the industry. They're why there are pop-up Origin surveys now and then. You and I? We get heard from plenty. But we are the exceptions in being activist. Just look at the daily numbers in any game. There is no way that all those people don't care if they aren't spending their non-gaming time talking about the game. Yet they pay for the game just the same as you and I do, and are just as important to its success.
Everything in the OP makes perfect sense. And is presumably very well known in the industry. The active participants are never the norm - that's almost by definition, as they've chosen to be unusually involved beyond just paying and playing. And there's no cause to think we are representative (it just feels nice to think you might be) or more special or even play more.
Someone else probably said all this already, but I should go do other things than read it all
Agreed I was never really interested in the TS3 forum unless I had an issue. They were and still are a very helpful bunch. All I ever wanted was to play and play. Whole weekends could be lost that way I only became active here because I was so angry at what had happened to the latest iteration. Then I was ill for a long time and that put things back in perspective. I would say EA knows very well how many play compared to how many participate here. One last thing, never ever under estimate the silent majority. I imagine EA pay a good deal of attention to the silent majority numbers because they are likely to stop playing if unhappy without saying why.
I no longer use Origin or My Page. You can find me on YouTube or Twitter as Bettyboop711000. You are welcome to contact me as I explore options for a PC sandbox life simulation game.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
HOW can EA pay attention to the "Silent Majority" if they never talk? If they're unhappy and Come here to say why then they're not silent. If they're unhappy and Stop then they're not playing which means they are not supporting the game which takes them out of the game.
EA listens to the feedback in ALL their media sites, even email questionnaires... if someone doesn't answer then they're listened to but only that they don't care.
This so called "Silent Majority" is, in my mind, the ones who pick up the game without knowing what it is- an impulse buy, if you will. Which, if they play or not- doesn't matter if they give no feedback. Impulse buying won't support the game for long- in my mind. Plus, with TS3 still selling well, it is also supporting The Sims franchise.
All the people who come because they're unhappy are not this uncountable "Silent Majority." They're the outspoken "Minority."
*Using the Forums because of problems makes you part of - at the time even if you only used it for problems- part of the Forum.
So many want to think themselves part of the perceived power group when in all truth, you've been part of the community all along.
HOW can EA pay attention to the "Silent Majority" if they never talk? If they're unhappy and Come here to say why then they're not silent. If they're unhappy and Stop then they're not playing which means they are not supporting the game which takes them out of the game.
EA listens to the feedback in ALL their media sites, even email questionnaires... if someone doesn't answer then they're listened to but only that they don't care.
This so called "Silent Majority" is, in my mind, the ones who pick up the game without knowing what it is- an impulse buy, if you will. Which, if they play or not- doesn't matter if they give no feedback. Impulse buying won't support the game for long- in my mind. Plus, with TS3 still selling well, it is also supporting The Sims franchise.
All the people who come because they're unhappy are not this uncountable "Silent Majority." They're the outspoken "Minority."
*Using the Forums because of problems makes you part of - at the time even if you only used it for problems- part of the Forum.
So many want to think themselves part of the perceived power group when in all truth, you've been part of the community all along.
Which is where telemetry comes in to play. The only thing that doesn't tell them is why (and depending on what they take they can take a good guess). People undercredit (?) how much information Origin and the game takes, I think. It takes everything from your computers specs (which is why the game is kept low performance at a guess) to what you play and how long and I'm guessing a bunch of other things besides, probably completely unrelated to what they need to know.
People always seek out a community for a reason, be it game help, just to share, complaints, or news which was why I joined the community. Until then you're a silent player.
Until production shuts down I'd assume it's doing well, no matter who's buying what.
HOW can EA pay attention to the "Silent Majority" if they never talk? If they're unhappy and Come here to say why then they're not silent. If they're unhappy and Stop then they're not playing which means they are not supporting the game which takes them out of the game.
EA listens to the feedback in ALL their media sites, even email questionnaires... if someone doesn't answer then they're listened to but only that they don't care.
This so called "Silent Majority" is, in my mind, the ones who pick up the game without knowing what it is- an impulse buy, if you will. Which, if they play or not- doesn't matter if they give no feedback. Impulse buying won't support the game for long- in my mind. Plus, with TS3 still selling well, it is also supporting The Sims franchise.
All the people who come because they're unhappy are not this uncountable "Silent Majority." They're the outspoken "Minority."
*Using the Forums because of problems makes you part of - at the time even if you only used it for problems- part of the Forum.
So many want to think themselves part of the perceived power group when in all truth, you've been part of the community all along.
Which is where telemetry comes in to play. The only thing that doesn't tell them is why (and depending on what they take they can take a good guess). People undercredit (?) how much information Origin takes, I think. It takes everything from your computers specs (which is why the game is kept low performance at a guess) to what you play and how long and I'm guessing a bunch of other things besides, probably completely unrelated to what they need to know.
People always seek out a community for a reason, be it game help, complaints, or news which was why I joined the community. Until then you're a silent player.
Which is what I said- Telemetry has removed any Silent "Majority" out there.
And why I believe there is no Silent anything- if you don't know about Telemetry then you're probably not blocking it. Silent... and Majority... That's why the vocial "Minority" is more important Because they actually represent the ones who don't care enough to say anything. Be it good or bad- it will balance out with what is heard. Oh, people, back and forth and back and forth... Majority and Minority with the unseen is just speculation or wishful thinking.
If that's the game I hope it is I'm happy too No, in fact if it's another game I'm happy for you too haha. I'm quite happy exploring 2 myself at the moment by the way.
It is. Glad you're giving 2 ago. I still play 1 from time-to-time too. It's a classic to me.
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
@bunny-🐸🐸🐸🐸 I am sorry that you have been made to feel unwelcome
People shouldn't forget that there will always be newer Simmers coming onto the scene who never played The Sims before and so they are not really missing past content so they might not get all of the 'when you adding X Y & Z' hype.
I myself am from the very beginning, Easter 2000 so pre EP1 but even back on the glorious BBS I do remember there would be the odd snide comment towards a 'noob' who might have been stuck doing something. I joined the BBS in August or September 2000 when I was still in school and most of the older Simmers were welcoming back then. I was regarded as a 'reg' back on those boards but was mostly a lurker in later years and through most of the TS2 BBS and apart from the CAW section of the old forums, I seldom posted elsewhere.
I stepped in full time after watching the old forums explode pre TS4 launch and have watched this place go up and down ever since.
Sadly different opinions are not always welcome and it can be off putting towards some of the newer players who just want to sign up and talk about The Sims without someone trying to debate with them.
With sims 4, I still feel a bit weird, because I'm a player who does enjoy and even love some parts of TS4, while still finding it lacking in some areas, but I'm also still waiting for toddlers for ts4, and I'm not a big fan of Ts3.
So it feels like I'm a rag-tag player who has mixed feelings.
It sometimes feel like you have to choose a side for a particular sims game: Either you're pro TS3 or you're not. Either you're pro TS 4, or you're not.
Then, people keep fighting over likes and dislikes, and simmers have to keep justifying their likes and dislikes.
Also, some simmers keep insulting other simmers for liking TS4 and not liking TS3, saying ts4 is for dumbed down, casual, "not real"/"true simmer" fans, etc. That doesn't help the already volatile atmosphere, either.
Sorry, no sympathy for the anti-TS4 peeps with that kind of attitude. (It only makes me want to love TS4 even more, because I'm a rebel that way, lol!)
For example, I didn't like sims 3. I just don't! I just want other simmers to accept that I don't like it, and to not debate with me about it, or especially! to not try to pressure and convince me that I'm doing something wrong. Because, who could hate sims 3, unless there's something wrong with them or their computers, etc?
I highly dislike sims 3, and I like sims 4 better in some ways. I know it's hard for some simmers (especially anti-TS4/pro-TS3 peeps), to accept that. But they need to accept that, and to please stop debating me about my own personal feelings.
Another example is: I want toddlers, too. I won't be convinced to shut up about it, either. Some simmers are determined to insult or shut us toddler-lovers up. No, I refuse to be pressured to be shut up. I will continue to ask for toddlers until TS4 gets them, or when TS4 ends.
These are my personal opinions, and no one can convince me to shut up about them. End of story.
You are not alone and it doesn't matter if you started with TS4 or TS1. People do have mixed feelings about each iteration. As much as I loved TS3 there were things I missed from TS2. Overall I am not happy with TS4 but there are certain things which are an approvent. For example CAS.
We all start somewhere with the franchise and as King says there will always be new players. In years to come you will be the one with the playing history
I no longer use Origin or My Page. You can find me on YouTube or Twitter as Bettyboop711000. You are welcome to contact me as I explore options for a PC sandbox life simulation game.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
@bunny-🐸🐸🐸🐸 I am sorry that you have been made to feel unwelcome
People shouldn't forget that there will always be newer Simmers coming onto the scene who never played The Sims before and so they are not really missing past content so they might not get all of the 'when you adding X Y & Z' hype.
I myself am from the very beginning, Easter 2000 so pre EP1 but even back on the glorious BBS I do remember there would be the odd snide comment towards a 'noob' who might have been stuck doing something. I joined the BBS in August or September 2000 when I was still in school and most of the older Simmers were welcoming back then. I was regarded as a 'reg' back on those boards but was mostly a lurker in later years and through most of the TS2 BBS and apart from the CAW section of the old forums, I seldom posted elsewhere.
I stepped in full time after watching the old forums explode pre TS4 launch and have watched this place go up and down ever since.
Sadly different opinions are not always welcome and it can be off putting towards some of the newer players who just want to sign up and talk about The Sims without someone trying to debate with them.
With sims 4, I still feel a bit weird, because I'm a player who does enjoy and even love some parts of TS4, while still finding it lacking in some areas, but I'm also still waiting for toddlers for ts4, and I'm not a big fan of Ts3.
So it feels like I'm a rag-tag player who has mixed feelings.
It sometimes feel like you have to choose a side for a particular sims game: Either you're pro TS3 or you're not. Either you're pro TS 4, or you're not.
Then, people keep fighting over likes and dislikes, and simmers have to keep justifying their likes and dislikes.
Also, some simmers keep insulting other simmers for liking TS4 and not liking TS3, saying ts4 is for dumbed down, casual, "not real"/"true simmer" fans, etc. That doesn't help the already volatile atmosphere, either.
Sorry, no sympathy for the anti-TS4 peeps with that kind of attitude. (It only makes me want to love TS4 even more, because I'm a rebel that way, lol!)
For example, I didn't like sims 3. I just don't! I just want other simmers to accept that I don't like it, and to not debate with me about it, or especially! to not try to pressure and convince me that I'm doing something wrong. Because, who could hate sims 3, unless there's something wrong with them or their computers, etc?
I highly dislike sims 3, and I like sims 4 better in some ways. I know it's hard for some simmers (especially anti-TS4/pro-TS3 peeps), to accept that. But they need to accept that, and to please stop debating me about my own personal feelings.
Another example is: I want toddlers, too. I won't be convinced to shut up about it, either. Some simmers are determined to insult or shut us toddler-lovers up. No, I refuse to be pressured to be shut up. I will continue to ask for toddlers until TS4 gets them, or when TS4 ends.
These are my personal opinions, and no one can convince me to shut up about them. End of story.
You are not alone and it doesn't matter if you started with TS4 or TS1. People do have mixed feelings about each iteration. As much as I loved TS3 there were things I missed from TS2. Overall I am not happy with TS4 but there are certain things which are an approvent. For example CAS.
We all start somewhere with the franchise and as King says there will always be new players. In years to come you will be the one with the playing history
Oh, I do think I have a little bit of playing history, lol. I've played Sims as far back as Sims 1 back when I was a middle schooler in the early 2000s.
I've played all of the main sims games, Urbz, a little bit of Castaway, and MySims.
For the main games, my parents never got me much of the Expansion Packs, so I only had a couple of EPs for each main sims game. (I still enjoy Sims 1 and Sims 2, of course. I ended up buying the rest of the EPs, for both games, from EBay.)
It's just Sims 1, 2, and 4 appealed to me more than Sims 3 did, that's all.
(I actually skipped most of the Sims 3 generation. Very pretty to look at, but I always got bored eventually, for whatever reason, and then I was also one of those simmers who got the very sparsely populated community lots, too. Plus, I highly disliked Story Progression. I waited for an actual open restaurant without mods, and for some more OFB stuff, but that never really came to TS3, either. It's why I'm hyping up over Dine Out; I'm finally getting some open restaurants, like in sims 1 and 2! )
I've always felt if you block the telemetry, you're essentially shooting your own playstyle in the foot, so to speak. They won't consider your playstle in future updates if they can't see it afterall.
I've always felt if you block the telemetry, you're essentially shooting your own playstyle in the foot, so to speak. They won't consider your playstle in future updates if they can't see it afterall.
I agree with that to a point but telemetry does not tell them why I don't play with babies since their locked to a basinet with limited interactions it also does not tell them why I have only had 2 babies born in game which is because they don't age up to toddlers and hop out of the basinet as kids... why play a object-life stage with little to nothing to do with it when the end game is a child anyway? Telemetry only tells them what we do with what is given but not why certain features are not being used because they put no effort in doing them right to make it a fun experience.
Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
Comments
Another possibility is they don't want anything to do with the negativity. I may give a thumbs up on a YouTube video, but you won't catch me reading the comments let alone leaving one. It's one thing to have the fourth comment on a new video be something totally unrelated like "What about toddlers?", but some of the stuff I've seen in comments there can make a Yahoo news article look like Sesame Street.
The devs are really nice on Twitter, but again I don't have a lot of time to ask questions or leave feedback positive or negative. I'm too busy doing other things throughout the day including gaming or popping in here for a few.
My personal verdict after this very enlightening discussion: Don't trust the atmosphere towards the The Sims 4 in this forum since it's not suitable to reflect the reality or even give a trend on how well the game is received by the 'audience' out there. One reason might be the small pool of people who frequently visit the forum to share their opinion, it just does not work this way unfortunately.
Yes, I think that makes sense.
So what does this mean for EA now? How do they determine which features make the game become 'good' or at least would satisfy this big group of invisible players?
However, I think that we, the 'older simmers', those who are used to play the older Sims games, underestimate the amount of new and young players Sims 4 introduced to the series and their effect on the game!
Good question! I have no idea how far away those people you are referring to are from the prototype of a typical Sims 4 player when it comes to their consume behavior and enjoyment of the game and how significant their actions affect the 'general' view of it, so I am afraid I can't answer your question to your satisfaction.
I am sorry!
I agree that Sims is unique in that aspect. It fosters more of a community feel than most other games. However I'm curious why you quoted that post, as it was just meant to clarify the author's use of the phrase "invisible gamers".
We can shout and cry and complain all we want, but, in the end, in my opinion, the money does most of the talking.
Sims 3 was a cash cow success, despite some simmers' complaints.
(I left sims 3 and went back to sims 2, for most of sims 3 lifetime, instead of pointlessly voicing my complaints. I remembered that the Sims 3 forums was filled with so many pro fan peeps, some of whom kept dissing sims 1 and 2 for their "old-ness" and closed lots, and many kept saying it was simmers' fault for sims 3 games not working, so I eventually felt like sims community was not for me, and I just played the older games, and moved on from sims 3. It just got worse in sims 4 forums, but I have always felt that unwelcome vibe in the sims forums, even back in sims 3, so...Still getting blamed for having a cruddy sims 3 experience by sims 3 fans, so no changes, I guess.)
I have no clue about sims 4 being a financial success or not, though.
If they pull the plug in a few years, then it didn't make enough money to offset the costs of creating new content, 3D models, and animations, etc.
If sims 4 continues on, then maybe it did make enough money to offset the cost of creating content.
For me, it's simple as that. People have been taking about the evils of EA for a very, very long time, (even around sims 3 timeframe), and EA is still around, making money, apparently. *shrugs*
IMHO, It's the cold, hard cash that counts.
*sings Borderlands song* "You know there...Ain't no rest for the wicked--money don't grow on tree; got bills to pay and mouths to feed; ain't nothin' in this world for free...No rest for the wicked--until we close our eyes for good..."
(She/her)
People shouldn't forget that there will always be newer Simmers coming onto the scene who never played The Sims before and so they are not really missing past content so they might not get all of the 'when you adding X Y & Z' hype.
I myself am from the very beginning, Easter 2000 so pre EP1 but even back on the glorious BBS I do remember there would be the odd snide comment towards a 'noob' who might have been stuck doing something. I joined the BBS in August or September 2000 when I was still in school and most of the older Simmers were welcoming back then. I was regarded as a 'reg' back on those boards but was mostly a lurker in later years and through most of the TS2 BBS and apart from the CAW section of the old forums, I seldom posted elsewhere.
I stepped in full time after watching the old forums explode pre TS4 launch and have watched this place go up and down ever since.
Sadly different opinions are not always welcome and it can be off putting towards some of the newer players who just want to sign up and talk about The Sims without someone trying to debate with them.
Thanks, @king_of_simcity7 , for understanding.
With sims 4, I still feel a bit weird, because I'm a player who does enjoy and even love some parts of TS4, while still finding it lacking in some areas, but I'm also still waiting for toddlers for ts4, and I'm not a big fan of Ts3.
So it feels like I'm a rag-tag player who has mixed feelings.
It sometimes feel like you have to choose a side for a particular sims game: Either you're pro TS3 or you're not. Either you're pro TS 4, or you're not.
Then, people keep fighting over likes and dislikes, and simmers have to keep justifying their likes and dislikes.
Also, some simmers keep insulting other simmers for liking TS4 and not liking TS3, saying ts4 is for dumbed down, casual, "not real"/"true simmer" fans, etc. That doesn't help the already volatile atmosphere, either.
Sorry, no sympathy for the anti-TS4 peeps with that kind of attitude. (It only makes me want to love TS4 even more, because I'm a rebel that way, lol!)
For example, I didn't like sims 3. I just don't! I just want other simmers to accept that I don't like it, and to not debate with me about it, or especially! to not try to pressure and convince me that I'm doing something wrong. Because, who could hate sims 3, unless there's something wrong with them or their computers, etc?
I highly dislike sims 3, and I like sims 4 better in some ways. I know it's hard for some simmers (especially anti-TS4/pro-TS3 peeps), to accept that. But they need to accept that, and to please stop debating me about my own personal feelings.
Another example is: I want toddlers, too. I won't be convinced to shut up about it, either. Some simmers are determined to insult or shut us toddler-lovers up. No, I refuse to be pressured to be shut up. I will continue to ask for toddlers until TS4 gets them, or when TS4 ends.
These are my personal opinions, and no one can convince me to shut up about them. End of story.
(She/her)
I don't think they expected the backlash they got and the numbers aren't glaring. Had they been record setting, you would have heard about it and would still be hearing about it. I think the game will stay afloat, but the damage has already been done, they chose their audience, their direction for the game, and they aren't going to change any of that now or in the future.
Origin ID- manda102784
Agreed
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Sim enim est vita
EA listens to the feedback in ALL their media sites, even email questionnaires... if someone doesn't answer then they're listened to but only that they don't care.
This so called "Silent Majority" is, in my mind, the ones who pick up the game without knowing what it is- an impulse buy, if you will. Which, if they play or not- doesn't matter if they give no feedback. Impulse buying won't support the game for long- in my mind. Plus, with TS3 still selling well, it is also supporting The Sims franchise.
All the people who come because they're unhappy are not this uncountable "Silent Majority." They're the outspoken "Minority."
*Using the Forums because of problems makes you part of - at the time even if you only used it for problems- part of the Forum.
So many want to think themselves part of the perceived power group when in all truth, you've been part of the community all along.
Which is where telemetry comes in to play. The only thing that doesn't tell them is why (and depending on what they take they can take a good guess). People undercredit (?) how much information Origin and the game takes, I think. It takes everything from your computers specs (which is why the game is kept low performance at a guess) to what you play and how long and I'm guessing a bunch of other things besides, probably completely unrelated to what they need to know.
People always seek out a community for a reason, be it game help, just to share, complaints, or news which was why I joined the community. Until then you're a silent player.
Until production shuts down I'd assume it's doing well, no matter who's buying what.
Which is what I said- Telemetry has removed any Silent "Majority" out there.
And why I believe there is no Silent anything- if you don't know about Telemetry then you're probably not blocking it. Silent... and Majority... That's why the vocial "Minority" is more important Because they actually represent the ones who don't care enough to say anything. Be it good or bad- it will balance out with what is heard. Oh, people, back and forth and back and forth... Majority and Minority with the unseen is just speculation or wishful thinking.
It is. Glad you're giving 2 ago. I still play 1 from time-to-time too. It's a classic to me.
YouTube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwUE8EBk9VunVA_wkDFVRUw
You are not alone and it doesn't matter if you started with TS4 or TS1. People do have mixed feelings about each iteration. As much as I loved TS3 there were things I missed from TS2. Overall I am not happy with TS4 but there are certain things which are an approvent. For example CAS.
We all start somewhere with the franchise and as King says there will always be new players. In years to come you will be the one with the playing history
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Sim enim est vita
Thanks, @Bettyboop55 .
Oh, I do think I have a little bit of playing history, lol. I've played Sims as far back as Sims 1 back when I was a middle schooler in the early 2000s.
I've played all of the main sims games, Urbz, a little bit of Castaway, and MySims.
For the main games, my parents never got me much of the Expansion Packs, so I only had a couple of EPs for each main sims game. (I still enjoy Sims 1 and Sims 2, of course.
It's just Sims 1, 2, and 4 appealed to me more than Sims 3 did, that's all.
(I actually skipped most of the Sims 3 generation. Very pretty to look at, but I always got bored eventually, for whatever reason, and then I was also one of those simmers who got the very sparsely populated community lots, too. Plus, I highly disliked Story Progression. I waited for an actual open restaurant without mods, and for some more OFB stuff, but that never really came to TS3, either. It's why I'm hyping up over Dine Out; I'm finally getting some open restaurants, like in sims 1 and 2!
(She/her)