In fact some of the replies that had been given in Simulation Tech Talk, me, as program developer, can say that are very lame excuses, completely unacceptable. If I go to my boss an told him that the development of the new product have lost some of the basic features he is expecting, I will be downgraded, or with no work, in one week.
To develop something means to have to fight with the limits the hardware impose to us, true... but it is not an excuse for them all.
Example one: load times for houses in the same neighbor. What do we know - All the assets from the houses are loaded - Random people is walking for the neighbor, with no issues. - In past games it was solved by a "cross the door and do nothing" system, to avoid overload. - You need to wait a load screen even when the lot is empty, with NOTHING. - The excuse is that to change from house you not only have to load the assets, you have also to load the sims, and that past solutions doesn't need to work cause sims are incredible complex and they cannot have a lot of sims out the house doing things. (As you can see it contradicts the last facts)
It is clear that the fact that in this case we have a load screen means bad programming, or lack of time to fix some last issues. It talks bad about the tech team, for the bad excuses provided and the clearly inefficient load system. It is very lame.
Example two: pools What do we know - We doesn't have swim clothes - We have windows, that cut walls - We have fountains, that cut terrain - Terrain is completly plain, in this game, with no elevations - The excuse provided is that to cut terrain is incredible hard.
The real fact is that the maths to detect colissions (used to cut, etc) are well known. They had used in in the past, they have not changed, and the current scenario is simpler than never, to add a pool. And they are doing it, already, for fountains! A pool is a deep fountain... The real fact is that they decided to cut it from the scratch, and that is nothing tech related, this time.
So yes, some of the excuses are incredible bad and not appropriate, from their side.
I agree with the OP and think that EA needs to have paid better attention to the long time Sim's Community fan base. We are the ones who have kept this game series alive -- with new customers/fans joining with each new generation. Our desire for the game and the linear play that is inherent to the game's success is what will make it continue -- not what the shareholders or execs at EA want/think/create. If you have no fan base then you have no need for the game. The customer is always right and in this newest generation -- a lot has been left out and is sadly lacking.<br />
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I do love a lot of the new social interactions and emotions of the Sims4 sims. The added details to objects and animations are very nice -- for example: the cooking sequences and spontaneous displays of affection between these new sims. Are these new "details" enough to keep me satisfied and fulfilled to continue to buy the EP's and SP's in the future. Sadly, they are not as there just is not enough "life" and realism in the new generation. I also do not buy or accept the excuse that the new game engine was not capable of producing some of the standard elements of this game that we have had in the earlier series. Swimming pools and basements along with being able to create different terrain levels and have a more realistic looking neighborhood overall. The painted backdrop with the hazy hills and fake blue sky in this new game is an insult to us as dedicated simmers when we've had beautiful skies with moving clouds, fog and sunshine. The same goes for the surrounding terrain -- and the new "flat style" view of a neighborhood that looks like a pastel blueprint. If the current game engine was not capable of producing what we had in Sims3 for the surrounding terrain and natural world, then the wrong game engine was chosen. We have gone several steps backward here.<br />
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EA needs to have their heads handed to them for giving us a game that is only half developed. I loved Sims3 and think it was the best of the series thus far. Yes, I hated the stuttering gameplay and the inexplicable crashes and my game is heavily modded. But the entire gameplay experience has been extraordinary -- especially with the EP - Island Paradise. All of the watersports are done extremely well and the scuba diving animations are exemplary. I love the open world concept and think that EA should have worked much harder to improve it and continue on in that direction. This newest iteration is quite clumsy and now we are back to loading screens between neighboring houses. Really? I see it as pure corporate laziness and greed in developing a "new generation of Sims" that is comparable to Sims2 in the game's ability to load screens and travel around the neighborhood. I think EA actually stopped listening to the Sim's Community when Sims3 was released. It was then that we began to see the move away from the linear play and the Master Controller in the sky ability that drew the majority of us to this game in the first place. Most of us are not interested in RPG style gameplay -- nor do we want to have to unlock objects and features of a game. <br />
<br />
Another key component that EA has been missing for a very long time is that we as Sim gamers are very attached to our sims. We don't want them aging without us present, we don't want them moving out of their houses on a whim and we want to have a voice when it comes to what we want to see in new future generations/series of this game. There is no way I would have paid the price that was set for Sims4 -- I went to CDKeys.com and bought my digital copy for $45.25. I am happy that I got the game for this price as it is definitely not worth a penny more. As many have said in this thread, if EA does not step up and give us the content that many have mentioned here in future EP's, then this very well may be the end of this series. What a sad day that will be if it comes to pass and so very unnecessary.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, it was summed up quite well. My only disagreement is with universal aging - I like that feature as it saves me the time of "catching up" my lesser played families. Though, it would be nice to define specifically which houses age and which don't. AwesomeMod did that with TS3 and it was nice.
While I must say that I am still enjoying the new game overall, I am getting SICK of the guru's talking about how missing features were removed because it is "too hard" or "takes too long" or was a "trade off".
The open world is understandable, because it truly WAS a mess. However, for everything else, such as the teen height, town sizes, small lots, toddlers, pools, etc. it sounds more like excuses for cut corners and lazy design. You know why? Because if certain features required more resources, they should have HIRED MORE PEOPLE. Or better yet, they should have NOT laid off all those devs a while back.
Seriously, The Sims 3 squeezed every last dime from our wallets, releasing an endless amount of expansions and stuff packs, and charging ridiculous prices for store content. Where exactly did all that money go? You would think that they'd AT LEAST use some of it to ensure that their dev team was properly staffed for the "next gen" installment. And if the devs blame time constraints for leaving out 10 year old features, then there is clearly an issue regarding upper management, resource allocation, and staffing.
As someone stated in another thread, it would be one thing if Sims 4 was made by a bunch of Indie developers on a kickstarter budget. But The Sims is one of EA's biggest cash cows. It is one of the last franchises that should be complaining about how things require too much work.
I realize that the actual developers had no control over this. But I'm really starting to believe those laid-off devs who were complaining about toxic upper management, office politics, etc. There is really no reason for a AAA game of this budget to be cutting this many corners.
I agree with this 100%. There is no reason this game should be like this, other than pure EA greed. If they don't care enough about the series to give it what it has earned and deserved, then I don't care enough to give them my money anymore. The excuses are old and quite frankley I don't believe a word they say anymore.
The Sims games are the only EA games I have ever had interest in. I look at all their other games that they put more time into then I look at TS4. Self explanatory as to why I am not happy about it.
Don't try to compare TS4 and DAI and look into how much effort and times they put into it. You are going to get a heart attack .
In terms of QA and User Experience, we can compare the Sims 4 to other AAA games and it fails, HARD.
At this point in time, I've gotten about as much User Experience out of the game as I do other AAA games I play (more, in some cases) and have had very few issues, mostly minor. I think you'll find there are others who have had experiences similar to mine so I don't see how it can be classified as failing hard, across the board. Obviously it fails for some people but that's not unexpected for any game, AAA or not.
Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
Because if certain features required more resources, they should have HIRED MORE PEOPLE. Or better yet, they should have NOT laid off all those devs a while back.
You obviously do not understand how business works ...
Neither do you or EA.
You have a product generating billion of revenues, you invest to mantain quality.
Those who try to cheapen their product to make more money usually devalue the brand.
See how GM went bankrupt. See how the current's CEA, Mary Barra's, new motto is "no more crappy cars".
That's cute. You don't know how business works, either.
See, I took business. I do get it, I've had to live it, so I understand that you have about as much clue on what EA is doing with their money as I do. That's none. No clue. You're making blind assumptions because TS4 doesn't pander to your whims and you just need to cry it out.
And what are you crying about? TS4 panders to YOUR whims, therefore you come in here to 🐸🐸🐸🐸 and whine and moan because someone's dissin' yer fave game. 🐸🐸🐸🐸.
So much this!
Also EA is a terrible business that just seems to have a loyal fanbase. I've said it before, I have never ever seen customers take so much 🐸🐸🐸🐸 and still remain loyal to the franchise.
A good business listens to their customers feedback and improves on what is lacking, while perfecting what is good. That's what a good business is. EA use to be such a good business probably why their fans still remain so loyal cause they're hoping EA wakes up one day and decides to do something for their customers rather than thinking about the new sports car they want to buy.
Well same goes for blizzard, they're hated and I could care less. I prefer to stand by the franchise I love, its like anything, even movie franchises there will always be issues but I'll get over it. Like the karate kid for instance, I didn't like how Daniel acted or did things but I got over it and still loved the karate kid franchise.
Long story short if someone is gonna get mad and be a hater over a new game that has some issues that I'm sure will be addressed, then they need to reconsider the whole fan label. A real fan looks over minor issues and gives the game time to adjust, I mean the game just came out.
1. You mistake hate with disappointment. I bet most of us don't hate Sims 4. We are disappointed about what Sims 4 has become and we try to change things for the better. That's why we are here and voice our concerns. If it were just to fill this forum with hate we all would be nothing but trolls. Do you think we are trolls?
2. If being a fan even implies self-denial (getting used to things missing and getting used to cartoony graphics) I would gladly announce I'm no fan anymore but luckily it's not that way. Being a fan does not mean to become a stup1d sheep. Being a fan means to tell EA what we think and if telling them our concerns makes you feel uncomfortable - well that's your problem.
Because if certain features required more resources, they should have HIRED MORE PEOPLE. Or better yet, they should have NOT laid off all those devs a while back.
You obviously do not understand how business works ...
Neither do you or EA.
You have a product generating billion of revenues, you invest to mantain quality.
Those who try to cheapen their product to make more money usually devalue the brand.
See how GM went bankrupt. See how the current's CEA, Mary Barra's, new motto is "no more crappy cars".
That's cute. You don't know how business works, either.
See, I took business. I do get it, I've had to live it, so I understand that you have about as much clue on what EA is doing with their money as I do. That's none. No clue. You're making blind assumptions because TS4 doesn't pander to your whims and you just need to cry it out.
And what are you crying about? TS4 panders to YOUR whims, therefore you come in here to 🐸🐸🐸🐸 and whine and moan because someone's dissin' yer fave game. 🐸🐸🐸🐸.
So much this!
Also EA is a terrible business that just seems to have a loyal fanbase. I've said it before, I have never ever seen customers take so much 🐸🐸🐸🐸 and still remain loyal to the franchise.
A good business listens to their customers feedback and improves on what is lacking, while perfecting what is good. That's what a good business is. EA use to be such a good business probably why their fans still remain so loyal cause they're hoping EA wakes up one day and decides to do something for their customers rather than thinking about the new sports car they want to buy.
Long story short if someone is gonna get mad and be a hater over a new game that has some issues that I'm sure will be addressed, then they need to reconsider the whole fan label. A real fan looks over minor issues and gives the game time to adjust, I mean the game just came out.
No, that is not what a real fan is. That is being a 13 year old kid or a sheep. I'm sorry, but I sincerely dislike it when people tell others to be mindless and throw your money at huge corporations under the guise of being a "true fan". I have problems with that and people like you who often influence the younger generations out of a fear of being disloyal to a brand.
People are entitled to their opinions. And some of us have been around since before The Sims was a game. Some of us have been through SimEarth, SimIsle, SimAnt, SimCities, etc. It doesn't matter how long you have been around, it doesn't matter that you take anything they give you without complaint. We are all fans of the game or we wouldn't be here. And when we are unsatisfied, we can let them know. The game will not improve unless there are people who will let them know that it needs to be.
Time and time again EA gets called out and proven wrong on what they said cannot be done, it showed in SimCity.
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Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
I loved the open world as much as the next person, but it really feels like people are blowing its importance out of the water a little. Despite playing Sims 3 on a top spec PC, I barely had any sims in my community lots...why? Because they were all too spread out. At least in Sims 4 my community lots actually have life and activity on them. Sims 1 and 2 did extremely well without an open world, its importance is being over-exaggerated I feel now that Maxis has gone back to the more traditional format.
Because if certain features required more resources, they should have HIRED MORE PEOPLE. Or better yet, they should have NOT laid off all those devs a while back.
You obviously do not understand how business works ...
Neither do you or EA.
You have a product generating billion of revenues, you invest to mantain quality.
Those who try to cheapen their product to make more money usually devalue the brand.
See how GM went bankrupt. See how the current's CEA, Mary Barra's, new motto is "no more crappy cars".
That's cute. You don't know how business works, either.
See, I took business. I do get it, I've had to live it, so I understand that you have about as much clue on what EA is doing with their money as I do. That's none. No clue. You're making blind assumptions because TS4 doesn't pander to your whims and you just need to cry it out.
And what are you crying about? TS4 panders to YOUR whims, therefore you come in here to 🐸🐸🐸🐸 and whine and moan because someone's dissin' yer fave game. 🐸🐸🐸🐸.
So much this!
Also EA is a terrible business that just seems to have a loyal fanbase. I've said it before, I have never ever seen customers take so much 🐸🐸🐸🐸 and still remain loyal to the franchise.
A good business listens to their customers feedback and improves on what is lacking, while perfecting what is good. That's what a good business is. EA use to be such a good business probably why their fans still remain so loyal cause they're hoping EA wakes up one day and decides to do something for their customers rather than thinking about the new sports car they want to buy.
Well same goes for blizzard, they're hated and I could care less. I prefer to stand by the franchise I love, its like anything, even movie franchises there will always be issues but I'll get over it. Like the karate kid for instance, I didn't like how Daniel acted or did things but I got over it and still loved the karate kid franchise.
Long story short if someone is gonna get mad and be a hater over a new game that has some issues that I'm sure will be addressed, then they need to reconsider the whole fan label. A real fan looks over minor issues and gives the game time to adjust, I mean the game just came out.
1. You mistake hate with disappointment. I bet most of us don't hate Sims 4. We are disappointed about what Sims 4 has become and we try to change things for the better. That's why we are here and voice our concerns. If it were just to fill this forum with hate we all would be nothing but trolls. Do you think we are trolls?
2. If being a fan even implies self-denial (getting used to things missing and getting used to cartoony graphics) I would gladly announce I'm no fan anymore but luckily it's not that way. Being a fan does not mean to become a stup1d sheep. Being a fan means to tell EA what we think and if telling them our concerns makes you feel uncomfortable - well that's your problem.
Agreed. Unfortunately, I doubt that anybody of consequence from EA actually lowers themselves to read our disappointments and/or suggestions on the forum to make the game better. There's just this just this insect swarm of forum Gollums who will attack on sight and pooh, pooh suggestions.
Oh, rarely a guru will post a comment on somebody's thread (I have seen that once), but it's like seeing a meteor cross the sky... you have to be at the right place, at the right time. And it is barely worth pausing to lift your head and watch the celestial crossing, because you'll have to contend with the mosquito bites as punishment for lingering.
Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
I loved the open world as much as the next person, but it really feels like people are blowing its importance out of the water a little. Despite playing Sims 3 on a top spec PC, I barely had any sims in my community lots...why? Because they were all too spread out. At least in Sims 4 my community lots actually have life and activity on them. Sims 1 and 2 did extremely well without an open world, its importance is being over-exaggerated I feel now that Maxis has gone back to the more traditional format.
Well true, but i am positive it wouldn't be impossible to do this kind of Game. Its only a matter of Time and Money. And i am positive many fans are ready to buy this Game. Alone in Germany Amazon most costumer from TS4 are complaining the lack of Open World.
So i don't know how it is in the States but we in Germany at least would be happy about that kind of feature.
Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
I loved the open world as much as the next person, but it really feels like people are blowing its importance out of the water a little. Despite playing Sims 3 on a top spec PC, I barely had any sims in my community lots...why? Because they were all too spread out. At least in Sims 4 my community lots actually have life and activity on them. Sims 1 and 2 did extremely well without an open world, its importance is being over-exaggerated I feel now that Maxis has gone back to the more traditional format.
Well true, but i am positive it wouldn't be impossible to do this kind of Game. Its only a matter of Time and Money. And i am positive many fans are ready to buy this Game. Alone in Germany Amazon most costumer from TS4 are complaining the lack of Open World.
So i don't hows in the States but we in Germany at least would be happy about that kind of feature.
Yeah I know what you mean, if open world could work well enough that community lots also have lots of sims, that would be awesome. I don't think anyone wouldn't want that, but there's no point in having an open world if community lots are dead. If I had to choice between open world and dead lots, or closed worlds and community lots where sims are visiting and interacting, I'd choose the latter. It's the quality of the gameplay that really matters, and the open world is just that, an open world.
That said.....Sims 3 didn't disappear into thin air. If people are attached to the open world concept, then play Sims 3. I don't see why Sims 4 has to be a carbon copy. Sims 3 was the version that deviated from the 'norm' Sims 4 has simply gone back to age old recipe. A recipe that everyone was more than happy with previously.
Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
I loved the open world as much as the next person, but it really feels like people are blowing its importance out of the water a little. Despite playing Sims 3 on a top spec PC, I barely had any sims in my community lots...why? Because they were all too spread out. At least in Sims 4 my community lots actually have life and activity on them. Sims 1 and 2 did extremely well without an open world, its importance is being over-exaggerated I feel now that Maxis has gone back to the more traditional format.
If they really took the time and effort instead of making petty excuses, Im pretty sure Open World is possible with controllable sim density on community lots so to cater both to low end and high end machines.
In Sims 4, yes there are many sims in community lots but it does not feel natural at all to me. They just arrive there when I arrive. It's like they're being summoned! In the Sims 3, when I want to be alone I can go to the gym at 3 AM in the morning and nobody's there! y'know why? because everybody's asleep. makes perfect sense. This feels more natural.
Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
I loved the open world as much as the next person, but it really feels like people are blowing its importance out of the water a little. Despite playing Sims 3 on a top spec PC, I barely had any sims in my community lots...why? Because they were all too spread out. At least in Sims 4 my community lots actually have life and activity on them. Sims 1 and 2 did extremely well without an open world, its importance is being over-exaggerated I feel now that Maxis has gone back to the more traditional format.
Well true, but i am positive it wouldn't be impossible to do this kind of Game. Its only a matter of Time and Money. And i am positive many fans are ready to buy this Game. Alone in Germany Amazon most costumer from TS4 are complaining the lack of Open World.
So i don't hows in the States but we in Germany at least would be happy about that kind of feature.
Yeah I know what you mean, if open world could work well enough that community lots also have lots of sims, that would be awesome. I don't think anyone wouldn't want that, but there's no point in having an open world if community lots are dead. If I had to choice between open world and dead lots, or closed worlds and community lots where sims are visiting and interacting, I'd choose the latter. It's the quality of the gameplay that really matters, and the open world is just that, an open world.
That said.....Sims 3 didn't disappear into thin air. If people are attached to the open world concept, then play Sims 3. I don't see why Sims 4 has to be a carbon copy. Sims 3 was the version that deviated from the 'norm' Sims 4 has simply gone back to age old recipe. A recipe that everyone was more than happy with previously.
Yeah didn't mean TS4 should have Open World but its not a Sequel for me, for a Sequel TS4 should have toped its precedent Game and sadly TS3. If they had launched this kind of Sims in the year 2009 i would be more glad about TS4. But now its only a Remake for me. And i will hope TS5 will get what i want.
Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
I loved the open world as much as the next person, but it really feels like people are blowing its importance out of the water a little. Despite playing Sims 3 on a top spec PC, I barely had any sims in my community lots...why? Because they were all too spread out. At least in Sims 4 my community lots actually have life and activity on them. Sims 1 and 2 did extremely well without an open world, its importance is being over-exaggerated I feel now that Maxis has gone back to the more traditional format.
The problem with that is they did NOT go back to a more traditional format; they went to a CONSOLE format.
Take a look at the console version of Sims 3...look familiar? Sure looks like Sims 4:
right down to the defined 'neighborhoods'
Look at Sims1:
- the same tiny neighborhood with set lots...same as Sims4
Look at Sims2:
- you could edit and place your lots, of whatever size YOU wanted,
not be stuck with a pre-set number of lots of limited choice of size and placement
So strictly from a lot and community standpoint, Sims4 has gone BACKWARDS in its development;
maybe Sims4 should have been named Sims 1.5
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
I loved the open world as much as the next person, but it really feels like people are blowing its importance out of the water a little. Despite playing Sims 3 on a top spec PC, I barely had any sims in my community lots...why? Because they were all too spread out. At least in Sims 4 my community lots actually have life and activity on them. Sims 1 and 2 did extremely well without an open world, its importance is being over-exaggerated I feel now that Maxis has gone back to the more traditional format.
If they really took the time and effort instead of making petty excuses, Im pretty sure Open World is possible with controllable sim density on community lots so to cater both to low end and high end machines.
In Sims 4, yes there are many sims in community lots but it does not feel natural at all to me. They just arrive there when I arrive. It's like they're being summoned! In the Sims 3, when I want to be alone I can go to the gym at 3 AM in the morning and nobody's there! y'know why? because everybody's asleep. makes perfect sense. This feels more natural.
I get what you mean, but the thing is we don't know as laymen. Unless you're a game designer? I imagine it's not as easy as you believe it is. Also, Maxis, for some reason, are adamant about keeping this in the 32bit era. Perhaps if they took a leap forward and worried less about offending low spec PC users, perhaps we'd have that open world now, but alas it isn't the case. Believe me I'd love the open world combined with the much better Sims of 4.
Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
I loved the open world as much as the next person, but it really feels like people are blowing its importance out of the water a little. Despite playing Sims 3 on a top spec PC, I barely had any sims in my community lots...why? Because they were all too spread out. At least in Sims 4 my community lots actually have life and activity on them. Sims 1 and 2 did extremely well without an open world, its importance is being over-exaggerated I feel now that Maxis has gone back to the more traditional format.
The problem with that is they did NOT go back to a more traditional format; they went to a CONSOLE format.
Take a look at the console version of Sims 3...look familiar? Sure looks like Sims 4:
right down to the defined 'neighborhoods'
Look at Sims1:
- the same tiny neighborhood with set lots...same as Sims4
Look at Sims2:
- you could edit and place your lots, of whatever size YOU wanted,
not be stuck with a pre-set number of lots of limited choice of size and placement
So strictly from a lot and community standpoint, Sims4 has gone BACKWARDS in its development;
maybe Sims4 should have been named Sims 1.5
Yes it has gone backwards in development. So much so that I can't find the appeal on this thing they call a sims game.
It's quite drop from the top, so how ya feeling down there?
There were so many different experiences in TS3, however, this I know to be true. If you played only in EA worlds, where they suffered from being too expansive and routing failures, then your community lots would be empty most of the time. If you played in smaller worlds that were built with more things for townies to do on community lots, then you would have had full community lots. The problem is that EA world had to be base game compatible. So you never got a full experience out of any of them unless you put in the work yourself. And because of the routing failures, that couldn't be accomplished outside of CAW.
---I know the town I built was rather small, but there was so much for townies to do that my small stores were often full to the brim with sims. When my sim lived across the street from the martial arts studio, I would always see townies in there using the sparring dummies. Most of my townies maxed out their martial arts skill. They would hang out at the arcade and java hut. They would spend time at the comic book store and internet cafe, the liquor store (nectary). Heck, they'd even hang out at the church I built and take turns listening and using the podium. The lots that were usually empty were places like the beach and small parks because they didn't have anything fun in them.
---Ha...well, you guys write quickly and moved on. Now this post seems vastly out of place. And I failed to quote. LOL
Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
I loved the open world as much as the next person, but it really feels like people are blowing its importance out of the water a little. Despite playing Sims 3 on a top spec PC, I barely had any sims in my community lots...why? Because they were all too spread out. At least in Sims 4 my community lots actually have life and activity on them. Sims 1 and 2 did extremely well without an open world, its importance is being over-exaggerated I feel now that Maxis has gone back to the more traditional format.
The problem with that is they did NOT go back to a more traditional format; they went to a CONSOLE format.
Take a look at the console version of Sims 3...look familiar? Sure looks like Sims 4:
right down to the defined 'neighborhoods'
Look at Sims1:
- the same tiny neighborhood with set lots...same as Sims4
Look at Sims2:
- you could edit and place your lots, of whatever size YOU wanted,
not be stuck with a pre-set number of lots of limited choice of size and placement
So strictly from a lot and community standpoint, Sims4 has gone BACKWARDS in its development;
maybe Sims4 should have been named Sims 1.5
I'm not going to argue with those points, I really dislike the neighborhood map for example, and miss the style of all three previous games. It's something I'd love them to change, but I doubt it's going to happen.
I can not in good conscious support TS4 in its current state. I look at what the sims was and what it could have become, then I look at what TS4 is. I can not bring myself to accept what it has been turned into.
It's quite drop from the top, so how ya feeling down there?
There were so many different experiences in TS3, however, this I know to be true. If you played only in EA worlds, where they suffered from being too expansive and routing failures, then your community lots would be empty most of the time. If you played in smaller worlds that were built with more things for townies to do on community lots, then you would have had full community lots. The problem is that EA world had to be base game compatible. So you never got a full experience out of any of them unless you put in the work yourself. And because of the routing failures, that couldn't be accomplished outside of CAW.
---I know the town I built was rather small, but there was so much for townies to do that my small stores were often full to the brim with sims. When my sim lived across the street from the martial arts studio, I would always see townies in there using the sparring dummies. Most of my townies maxed out their martial arts skill. They would hang out at the arcade and java hut. They would spend time at the comic book store and internet cafe, the liquor store (nectary). Heck, they'd even hang out at the church I built and take turns listening and using the podium. The lots that were usually empty were places like the beach and small parks because they didn't have anything fun in them.
---Ha...well, you guys write quickly and moved on. Now this post seems vastly out of place. And I failed to quote. Lol
Don't can't keep it up too need much more time for understanding haha
I keep on hearing how people had empty open worlds in TS3. That was not the case for me. I remember when my sim was playing for tips in front of the theater how many sims stood around him in a circle. Every community lot i went to was empty at first but not even a few sim minutes after that did sims start appearing.
I can not in good conscious support TS4 in its current state. I look at what the sims was and what it could have become, then I look at what TS4 is. I can not bring myself to accept what it has been turned into.
I felt that way about Sims 3 lol, I guess regardless of what they do, Maxis can't really win.
It's something I'd love them to change, but I doubt it's going to happen.
I don't think it will either. I cant stand the set lots. In Willow Creek for example on the right side is a 40x30 lot with a street frontage of 40. To the left is a lot marked 40x30 but it really isn't; its actually 30x40 with a street frontage of 30. So a lot you make on the right side wont fit the left side unless you like your front door to the side not even facing the street.
This inability to edit lots, add lots, remove lots is NOT a progression, it is NOT an improvement, no matter how EA tries to spin it.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
I keep on hearing how people had empty open worlds in TS3. That was not the case for me. I remember when my sim was playing for tips in front of the theater how many sims stood around him in a circle. Every community lot i went to was empty at first but not even a few sim minutes after that did sims start appearing.
I never had a problem with empty worlds or lots in S3, either. Many times there were too many other NPC sims. I do remember going to exercise at 3 a.m. and nobody showed up for awhile... but I enjoyed having the place to myself and not fighting over equipment.
Comments
To develop something means to have to fight with the limits the hardware impose to us, true... but it is not an excuse for them all.
Example one: load times for houses in the same neighbor.
What do we know
- All the assets from the houses are loaded
- Random people is walking for the neighbor, with no issues.
- In past games it was solved by a "cross the door and do nothing" system, to avoid overload.
- You need to wait a load screen even when the lot is empty, with NOTHING.
- The excuse is that to change from house you not only have to load the assets, you have also to load the sims, and that past solutions doesn't need to work cause sims are incredible complex and they cannot have a lot of sims out the house doing things. (As you can see it contradicts the last facts)
It is clear that the fact that in this case we have a load screen means bad programming, or lack of time to fix some last issues. It talks bad about the tech team, for the bad excuses provided and the clearly inefficient load system. It is very lame.
Example two: pools
What do we know
- We doesn't have swim clothes
- We have windows, that cut walls
- We have fountains, that cut terrain
- Terrain is completly plain, in this game, with no elevations
- The excuse provided is that to cut terrain is incredible hard.
The real fact is that the maths to detect colissions (used to cut, etc) are well known. They had used in in the past, they have not changed, and the current scenario is simpler than never, to add a pool. And they are doing it, already, for fountains! A pool is a deep fountain... The real fact is that they decided to cut it from the scratch, and that is nothing tech related, this time.
So yes, some of the excuses are incredible bad and not appropriate, from their side.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, it was summed up quite well. My only disagreement is with universal aging - I like that feature as it saves me the time of "catching up" my lesser played families. Though, it would be nice to define specifically which houses age and which don't. AwesomeMod did that with TS3 and it was nice.
I agree with this 100%. There is no reason this game should be like this, other than pure EA greed. If they don't care enough about the series to give it what it has earned and deserved, then I don't care enough to give them my money anymore. The excuses are old and quite frankley I don't believe a word they say anymore.
Thats the reason why i am sticking to TS4 and try at least to improve it lacks. But for me its not a Sims sequel its more a Remake from TS1 and TS2. As true sequel TS4 should stick to its preceding Sims and that would be TS3 with Open World Space. And open World is not impossible it only needs more time to develop and i think EA didn't want to spent more money in this case. Its for me a downgrade if it never comes to the Sims franchise back again.
2. If being a fan even implies self-denial (getting used to things missing and getting used to cartoony graphics) I would gladly announce I'm no fan anymore but luckily it's not that way. Being a fan does not mean to become a stup1d sheep. Being a fan means to tell EA what we think and if telling them our concerns makes you feel uncomfortable - well that's your problem.
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I loved the open world as much as the next person, but it really feels like people are blowing its importance out of the water a little. Despite playing Sims 3 on a top spec PC, I barely had any sims in my community lots...why? Because they were all too spread out. At least in Sims 4 my community lots actually have life and activity on them. Sims 1 and 2 did extremely well without an open world, its importance is being over-exaggerated I feel now that Maxis has gone back to the more traditional format.
Agreed. Unfortunately, I doubt that anybody of consequence from EA actually lowers themselves to read our disappointments and/or suggestions on the forum to make the game better. There's just this just this insect swarm of forum Gollums who will attack on sight and pooh, pooh suggestions.
Oh, rarely a guru will post a comment on somebody's thread (I have seen that once), but it's like seeing a meteor cross the sky... you have to be at the right place, at the right time. And it is barely worth pausing to lift your head and watch the celestial crossing, because you'll have to contend with the mosquito bites as punishment for lingering.
Well true, but i am positive it wouldn't be impossible to do this kind of Game. Its only a matter of Time and Money. And i am positive many fans are ready to buy this Game. Alone in Germany Amazon most costumer from TS4 are complaining the lack of Open World.
So i don't know how it is in the States but we in Germany at least would be happy about that kind of feature.
Yeah I know what you mean, if open world could work well enough that community lots also have lots of sims, that would be awesome. I don't think anyone wouldn't want that, but there's no point in having an open world if community lots are dead. If I had to choice between open world and dead lots, or closed worlds and community lots where sims are visiting and interacting, I'd choose the latter. It's the quality of the gameplay that really matters, and the open world is just that, an open world.
That said.....Sims 3 didn't disappear into thin air. If people are attached to the open world concept, then play Sims 3. I don't see why Sims 4 has to be a carbon copy. Sims 3 was the version that deviated from the 'norm' Sims 4 has simply gone back to age old recipe. A recipe that everyone was more than happy with previously.
If they really took the time and effort instead of making petty excuses, Im pretty sure Open World is possible with controllable sim density on community lots so to cater both to low end and high end machines.
In Sims 4, yes there are many sims in community lots but it does not feel natural at all to me. They just arrive there when I arrive. It's like they're being summoned! In the Sims 3, when I want to be alone I can go to the gym at 3 AM in the morning and nobody's there! y'know why? because everybody's asleep. makes perfect sense. This feels more natural.
Yeah didn't mean TS4 should have Open World but its not a Sequel for me, for a Sequel TS4 should have toped its precedent Game and sadly TS3. If they had launched this kind of Sims in the year 2009 i would be more glad about TS4. But now its only a Remake for me. And i will hope TS5 will get what i want.
The problem with that is they did NOT go back to a more traditional format; they went to a CONSOLE format.
Take a look at the console version of Sims 3...look familiar? Sure looks like Sims 4:
right down to the defined 'neighborhoods'
Look at Sims1:
- the same tiny neighborhood with set lots...same as Sims4
Look at Sims2:
- you could edit and place your lots, of whatever size YOU wanted,
not be stuck with a pre-set number of lots of limited choice of size and placement
So strictly from a lot and community standpoint, Sims4 has gone BACKWARDS in its development;
maybe Sims4 should have been named Sims 1.5
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
Marcus Aurelius
I get what you mean, but the thing is we don't know as laymen. Unless you're a game designer? I imagine it's not as easy as you believe it is. Also, Maxis, for some reason, are adamant about keeping this in the 32bit era. Perhaps if they took a leap forward and worried less about offending low spec PC users, perhaps we'd have that open world now, but alas it isn't the case. Believe me I'd love the open world combined with the much better Sims of 4.
Yes it has gone backwards in development. So much so that I can't find the appeal on this thing they call a sims game.
---I know the town I built was rather small, but there was so much for townies to do that my small stores were often full to the brim with sims. When my sim lived across the street from the martial arts studio, I would always see townies in there using the sparring dummies. Most of my townies maxed out their martial arts skill. They would hang out at the arcade and java hut. They would spend time at the comic book store and internet cafe, the liquor store (nectary). Heck, they'd even hang out at the church I built and take turns listening and using the podium. The lots that were usually empty were places like the beach and small parks because they didn't have anything fun in them.
---Ha...well, you guys write quickly and moved on. Now this post seems vastly out of place. And I failed to quote. LOL
I'm not going to argue with those points, I really dislike the neighborhood map for example, and miss the style of all three previous games. It's something I'd love them to change, but I doubt it's going to happen.
I felt that way about Sims 3 lol, I guess regardless of what they do, Maxis can't really win.
I don't think it will either. I cant stand the set lots. In Willow Creek for example on the right side is a 40x30 lot with a street frontage of 40. To the left is a lot marked 40x30 but it really isn't; its actually 30x40 with a street frontage of 30. So a lot you make on the right side wont fit the left side unless you like your front door to the side not even facing the street.
This inability to edit lots, add lots, remove lots is NOT a progression, it is NOT an improvement, no matter how EA tries to spin it.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
Marcus Aurelius
I never had a problem with empty worlds or lots in S3, either. Many times there were too many other NPC sims. I do remember going to exercise at 3 a.m. and nobody showed up for awhile... but I enjoyed having the place to myself and not fighting over equipment.