For me, I love the trait, specifically in regards to the 'bro hug'.
Men do not normally go up to another man and give them the traditional hug animation that was used in Sims3 ( unless they are family, and even then ... it has to be close family ). However, the 'bro hug', that is how men who good friends/best friends often greet each other.
As a male gamer, my male sims never did the friendly hug to another sim in my game. Males are not generally huggers. I do not go up to friends and hug them, so why would my male sims? Romantic hugs to the romantic interest, but no hugs to friends that stop by or work pals. The female sims would, cause females, in general, are more likely to do that sort of thing.
I am glad that the option is in there.
Maybe they dont hug where YOU live. But in other parts of the world it is perfectly acceptable, even expected for men to hug when they greet each other. It is considered a sign of respect. Sigh, I really find the entire culture here annoying, especially regarding any male to male interaction (hugs) to be unaccepted.
Thank you for saying this.
For some of us who don't live in the US or have to live with this culture in general, this trait is really frustrating.
I cannot speak for the rest of the US, but not all of us live this culture. Like I said above, everyone I know hugs in greeting. Family, friends, everyone. You shake hands in greeting with the people at work, you hug people in greeting outside of work. I didn't even know this was odd until this thread.
The trait is weird in my circle too, it's known as a very specific way of describing an undesirable person.
It may be an age thing more than a regional thing in the US, I'm not exactly in high school anymore , so maybe it's younger kids that don't feel comfortable?
In my area and most of my friends' areas, "bro" is used alongside "dude" and "man" and "girl" as affectionate, silly, gender-neutral terms of endearment. I use all those words among my group of friends all the time. Apparently in some places it has negative connotations and people seem to associate it with misogyny, which personally I find absolutely ludicrous. I have no idea how such a light-hearted word picked up such a negative meaning in some places.
I think the allegations of misogyny has to do with behaviors, not with the term itself. For instance, a news story in the last few months where a guy sent an email to his fraternity brothers about the best way to get, erm ... woo-hooed? ... at a party, and the general disrespect for women that the email showed. The Sim bros didn't exhibit negative behavior toward female Sims in the demo, of course, but I can see where it could call to mind behaviors associated with groups of men who have the "bros before hos" attitude.
This is why I have a problem with it being in the game. You can't completely disassociate it from real-life connotations. TS2 had a great social group system, including jocks and secret handshakes, without offending anyone.
This is interesting to me because I have more negative feelings associated with the word "jock" than I do with "bro."
It's a gender neutral word, though. The football team in my sim town are all classified as jocks and they go around talking sports and high-fiving each other on community lots.
Meanwhile we don't go around calling men "sis" if we consider them "one of the girls" without expecting them to be either offended or made fun of by other men.
"Jock" was NEVER gender neutral where I grew up. It referred specifically to guys heavily into sports, partying, harassing/bullying nerds and geeks, dating the cheerleaders, and only passing classes because the teachers made sure of it so they didn't get kicked off the football team. Classic Revenge of the Nerds type characters.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
Wow... Bro is short for Brother.... does the noun 'Brother' also have negative connotations in your area as well?? Sis can be an insult such as 'You sissy' but it is also short for Sister! It completely relies on the context, and since the context is it being short for Brother, then it should have no negative connotations within any ethnic or cultural backgrounds as brothers are something to be praised all over the world.
In my area and most of my friends' areas, "bro" is used alongside "dude" and "man" and "girl" as affectionate, silly, gender-neutral terms of endearment. I use all those words among my group of friends all the time. Apparently in some places it has negative connotations and people seem to associate it with misogyny, which personally I find absolutely ludicrous. I have no idea how such a light-hearted word picked up such a negative meaning in some places.
I think the allegations of misogyny has to do with behaviors, not with the term itself. For instance, a news story in the last few months where a guy sent an email to his fraternity brothers about the best way to get, erm ... woo-hooed? ... at a party, and the general disrespect for women that the email showed. The Sim bros didn't exhibit negative behavior toward female Sims in the demo, of course, but I can see where it could call to mind behaviors associated with groups of men who have the "bros before hos" attitude.
This is why I have a problem with it being in the game. You can't completely disassociate it from real-life connotations. TS2 had a great social group system, including jocks and secret handshakes, without offending anyone.
This is interesting to me because I have more negative feelings associated with the word "jock" than I do with "bro."
It's a gender neutral word, though. The football team in my sim town are all classified as jocks and they go around talking sports and high-fiving each other on community lots.
Meanwhile we don't go around calling men "sis" if we consider them "one of the girls" without expecting them to be either offended or made fun of by other men.
"Jock" was NEVER gender neutral where I grew up. It referred specifically to guys heavily into sports, partying, harassing/bullying nerds and geeks, dating the cheerleaders, and only passing classes because the teachers made sure of it so they didn't get kicked off the football team. Classic Revenge of the Nerds type characters.
It has gender connotations, I'll give you that, (comes from "jockstrap,") and it's used primarily for men because of the general disinterest in women's sport, (a whole other discussion but certainly related,) but it's not *brother.*
Also you can look both "jock" and "bro" up on urban dictionary and see which looks more offensive.
This is interesting, because a lot of us aren't even American.
I can't wait to see how they're going to translate it to Norwegian. We don't have that word at all. The way they translate it will tell me which one of all of your explanations to the word that is actually the meaning EA is trying to convey.
I think the "less intelligent, not very mature jock"-explanation is the one. The "bros before ****"- blah blah.
Also you can look both "jock" and "bro" up on urban dictionary and see which looks more offensive.
The urban dictionary definition is exactly how we use "bro". Both males and females use it in that way - at my job, in my friend circle, my mom even used it to describe the new pizza delivery guy that she dislikes. It is not gender neutral nor is it a complement. It's interesting to hear how others use it and even though I wouldn't buy this game with stolen money, I'll still be interested to see how they implemented this trait.
"Jock" was NEVER gender neutral where I grew up. It referred specifically to guys heavily into sports, partying, harassing/bullying nerds and geeks, dating the cheerleaders, and only passing classes because the teachers made sure of it so they didn't get kicked off the football team. Classic Revenge of the Nerds type characters.
It has gender connotations, I'll give you that, (comes from "jockstrap,") and it's used primarily for men because of the general disinterest in women's sport, (a whole other discussion but certainly related,) but it's not *brother.*
Also you can look both "jock" and "bro" up on urban dictionary and see which looks more offensive.
I really wasn't trying to argue or debate with you over how you perceive the words or how they are or were used in your area. I was just stating how they are for me and how I perceive them based on the area and culture I grew up in. I really find it interesting that "bro" would have more misogynistic connotations to you than "jock" which, for me, was always the epitome of obnoxious, testosterone-poisoned males where I'm from. I don't really care how the urban dictionary defines them--while I'm sure there's some accuracy, as you can see from this thread alone, different areas and cultures (even in the same country) perceive the terms differently.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
"Jock" was NEVER gender neutral where I grew up. It referred specifically to guys heavily into sports, partying, harassing/bullying nerds and geeks, dating the cheerleaders, and only passing classes because the teachers made sure of it so they didn't get kicked off the football team. Classic Revenge of the Nerds type characters.
It has gender connotations, I'll give you that, (comes from "jockstrap,") and it's used primarily for men because of the general disinterest in women's sport, (a whole other discussion but certainly related,) but it's not *brother.*
Also you can look both "jock" and "bro" up on urban dictionary and see which looks more offensive.
I really wasn't trying to argue or debate with you over how you perceive the words or how they are or were used in your area. I was just stating how they are for me and how I perceive them based on the area and culture I grew up in. I really find it interesting that "bro" would have more misogynistic connotations to you than "jock" which, for me, was always the epitome of obnoxious, testosterone-poisoned males where I'm from. I don't really care how the urban dictionary defines them--while I'm sure there's some accuracy, as you can see from this thread alone, different areas and cultures (even in the same country) perceive the terms differently.
Fair enough. I only think it's unwise to include a term that has negative connotations, even if that isn't always the case.
Really, SimGuruCopeland? Are we circling back to the earlier part of the thread, where someone said:
Maybe it's the PG-version of gay? If that is so, that would just make my day!
(Yeah, I know it isn't, but this gives the whole Gameplay-video a new dimension)
EDIT: "Hip bump" ha ha
I know, you're referring to Mr. Harris's character, not to Mr. Harris himself, but really, you could have read the whole thread and thought a little before you posted.
(I love Neil Patrick Harris, btw. Never watched the show, though. It's surprising that I even know to which show the picture refers.)
Before posting, I read the whole thread, thought "a little" *ahem* and still have no idea why you would find that image anything other than hilarious.
Oh, the picture is funny and Barney was hilarious in the show too. Still don't know anyone that wouldn't be insulted to be compared to him though? It's weird to me. I've never heard it as being positive or desirable, so when it showed up as a trait in the Sims 4, so I wanted to discuss it...
What does "a little" *ahem* mean? I don't know if I follow what you are saying.
You know what I would find far more offensive? Being referred to as "Loser", "Mean Spirited", "Neurotic", "Inappropriate", "Insane", "Kleptomaniac", "Hot-Headed" or "Evil" (just to name a few.) Point is, traits have never been about if YOU'D like to be compared to it. They are traits — not judgement.
Really, SimGuruCopeland? Are we circling back to the earlier part of the thread, where someone said:
Maybe it's the PG-version of gay? If that is so, that would just make my day!
(Yeah, I know it isn't, but this gives the whole Gameplay-video a new dimension)
EDIT: "Hip bump" ha ha
I know, you're referring to Mr. Harris's character, not to Mr. Harris himself, but really, you could have read the whole thread and thought a little before you posted.
(I love Neil Patrick Harris, btw. Never watched the show, though. It's surprising that I even know to which show the picture refers.)
Before posting, I read the whole thread, thought "a little" *ahem* and still have no idea why you would find that image anything other than hilarious.
Oh, the picture is funny and Barney was hilarious in the show too. Still don't know anyone that wouldn't be insulted to be compared to him though? It's weird to me. I've never heard it as being positive or desirable, so when it showed up as a trait in the Sims 4, so I wanted to discuss it...
What does "a little" *ahem* mean? I don't know if I follow what you are saying.
You know what I would find far more offensive? Being referred to as "Loser", "Mean Spirited", "Neurotic", "Inappropriate", "Insane", "Kleptomaniac", "Hot-Headed" or "Evil" (just to name a few.) Point is, traits have never been about if YOU'D like to be compared to it. They are traits — not judgement.
Those are natural traits people actually posses (except for loser) A bro is not a natural trait. It is a group of disgusting idiots.
Really, SimGuruCopeland? Are we circling back to the earlier part of the thread, where someone said:
Maybe it's the PG-version of gay? If that is so, that would just make my day!
(Yeah, I know it isn't, but this gives the whole Gameplay-video a new dimension)
EDIT: "Hip bump" ha ha
I know, you're referring to Mr. Harris's character, not to Mr. Harris himself, but really, you could have read the whole thread and thought a little before you posted.
(I love Neil Patrick Harris, btw. Never watched the show, though. It's surprising that I even know to which show the picture refers.)
Before posting, I read the whole thread, thought "a little" *ahem* and still have no idea why you would find that image anything other than hilarious.
Oh, the picture is funny and Barney was hilarious in the show too. Still don't know anyone that wouldn't be insulted to be compared to him though? It's weird to me. I've never heard it as being positive or desirable, so when it showed up as a trait in the Sims 4, so I wanted to discuss it...
What does "a little" *ahem* mean? I don't know if I follow what you are saying.
You know what I would find far more offensive? Being referred to as "Loser", "Mean Spirited", "Neurotic", "Inappropriate", "Insane", "Kleptomaniac", "Hot-Headed" or "Evil" (just to name a few.) Point is, traits have never been about if YOU'D like to be compared to it. They are traits — not judgement.
You know what I would find far more offensive? Being referred to as "Loser", "Mean Spirited", "Neurotic", "Inappropriate", "Insane", "Kleptomaniac", "Hot-Headed" or "Evil" (just to name a few.) Point is, traits have never been about if YOU'D like to be compared to it. They are traits — not judgement.
But those are gender-neutral traits, and you didn't create your one and only demo around them. You chose a male-centered demo, centered on a male subculture (i.e., bros). I've seen a number of young women assert that females can be bros, too, but honestly, I don't know how females can be bros. It makes no sense to me.
Yeah, I'm old. But .... you know what, I give up. I could never win with you people back in the days when I was a SimMaster, and I can't win now. You will do what you will do, without thought, without apology, without regret, and we the 🐸🐸🐸🐸 will buy it. Yeah, I'm still buying it. More bad, me.
"Jock" was NEVER gender neutral where I grew up. It referred specifically to guys heavily into sports, partying, harassing/bullying nerds and geeks, dating the cheerleaders, and only passing classes because the teachers made sure of it so they didn't get kicked off the football team. Classic Revenge of the Nerds type characters.
It has gender connotations, I'll give you that, (comes from "jockstrap,") and it's used primarily for men because of the general disinterest in women's sport, (a whole other discussion but certainly related,) but it's not *brother.*
Also you can look both "jock" and "bro" up on urban dictionary and see which looks more offensive.
I really wasn't trying to argue or debate with you over how you perceive the words or how they are or were used in your area. I was just stating how they are for me and how I perceive them based on the area and culture I grew up in. I really find it interesting that "bro" would have more misogynistic connotations to you than "jock" which, for me, was always the epitome of obnoxious, testosterone-poisoned males where I'm from. I don't really care how the urban dictionary defines them--while I'm sure there's some accuracy, as you can see from this thread alone, different areas and cultures (even in the same country) perceive the terms differently.
Fair enough. I only think it's unwise to include a term that has negative connotations, even if that isn't always the case.
See SimGuruCopeland's response above. The traits encompass a huge variety of characteristics, both good and bad. Obviously, for some people, using the "bro" trait will be a good characterstic while for others, it won't be. If you take out all the negative traits, you'd be removing at least half, if not more, of what's available and making all your sims pretty plain, vanilla with no bad traits at all.
Not exactly what I'm looking for with the game.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
Really, SimGuruCopeland? Are we circling back to the earlier part of the thread, where someone said:
Maybe it's the PG-version of gay? If that is so, that would just make my day!
(Yeah, I know it isn't, but this gives the whole Gameplay-video a new dimension)
EDIT: "Hip bump" ha ha
I know, you're referring to Mr. Harris's character, not to Mr. Harris himself, but really, you could have read the whole thread and thought a little before you posted.
(I love Neil Patrick Harris, btw. Never watched the show, though. It's surprising that I even know to which show the picture refers.)
Before posting, I read the whole thread, thought "a little" *ahem* and still have no idea why you would find that image anything other than hilarious.
Oh, the picture is funny and Barney was hilarious in the show too. Still don't know anyone that wouldn't be insulted to be compared to him though? It's weird to me. I've never heard it as being positive or desirable, so when it showed up as a trait in the Sims 4, so I wanted to discuss it...
What does "a little" *ahem* mean? I don't know if I follow what you are saying.
You know what I would find far more offensive? Being referred to as "Loser", "Mean Spirited", "Neurotic", "Inappropriate", "Insane", "Kleptomaniac", "Hot-Headed" or "Evil" (just to name a few.) Point is, traits have never been about if YOU'D like to be compared to it. They are traits — not judgement.
You make a good point!
I guess all in all it's just a greeting. It doesn't really matter anyway, it is just a trait. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. It's just another fun way for your sim to act toward others.
There are a lot of traits I don't use. It's your game. I can see where if you got guys (room mates) living together using that trait. could be fun. Hanging out together. Might just try it. who knows.
Really, SimGuruCopeland? Are we circling back to the earlier part of the thread, where someone said:
Maybe it's the PG-version of gay? If that is so, that would just make my day!
(Yeah, I know it isn't, but this gives the whole Gameplay-video a new dimension)
EDIT: "Hip bump" ha ha
I know, you're referring to Mr. Harris's character, not to Mr. Harris himself, but really, you could have read the whole thread and thought a little before you posted.
(I love Neil Patrick Harris, btw. Never watched the show, though. It's surprising that I even know to which show the picture refers.)
Before posting, I read the whole thread, thought "a little" *ahem* and still have no idea why you would find that image anything other than hilarious.
Oh, the picture is funny and Barney was hilarious in the show too. Still don't know anyone that wouldn't be insulted to be compared to him though? It's weird to me. I've never heard it as being positive or desirable, so when it showed up as a trait in the Sims 4, so I wanted to discuss it...
What does "a little" *ahem* mean? I don't know if I follow what you are saying.
You know what I would find far more offensive? Being referred to as "Loser", "Mean Spirited", "Neurotic", "Inappropriate", "Insane", "Kleptomaniac", "Hot-Headed" or "Evil" (just to name a few.) Point is, traits have never been about if YOU'D like to be compared to it. They are traits — not judgement.
All those traits you referred to above can be used universally to describe all kinds of people, no matter their race, gender, regional location, ect.
"Bro" is oddly specific and applies to one type of male specifically, at least where I sit. If the "Bro" trait is something out of a college freshman woman's safety course, then you'll see me "judgement" posting. For now, I'll just continue discussing it's use with other simmers to see how they use the word.
Really, SimGuruCopeland? Are we circling back to the earlier part of the thread, where someone said:
Maybe it's the PG-version of gay? If that is so, that would just make my day!
(Yeah, I know it isn't, but this gives the whole Gameplay-video a new dimension)
EDIT: "Hip bump" ha ha
I know, you're referring to Mr. Harris's character, not to Mr. Harris himself, but really, you could have read the whole thread and thought a little before you posted.
(I love Neil Patrick Harris, btw. Never watched the show, though. It's surprising that I even know to which show the picture refers.)
Before posting, I read the whole thread, thought "a little" *ahem* and still have no idea why you would find that image anything other than hilarious.
Oh, the picture is funny and Barney was hilarious in the show too. Still don't know anyone that wouldn't be insulted to be compared to him though? It's weird to me. I've never heard it as being positive or desirable, so when it showed up as a trait in the Sims 4, so I wanted to discuss it...
What does "a little" *ahem* mean? I don't know if I follow what you are saying.
You know what I would find far more offensive? Being referred to as "Loser", "Mean Spirited", "Neurotic", "Inappropriate", "Insane", "Kleptomaniac", "Hot-Headed" or "Evil" (just to name a few.) Point is, traits have never been about if YOU'D like to be compared to it. They are traits — not judgement.
None of those terms can be connected to misogynistic behavior, and they're all gender neutral.
Comments
I cannot speak for the rest of the US, but not all of us live this culture. Like I said above, everyone I know hugs in greeting. Family, friends, everyone. You shake hands in greeting with the people at work, you hug people in greeting outside of work. I didn't even know this was odd until this thread.
The trait is weird in my circle too, it's known as a very specific way of describing an undesirable person.
It may be an age thing more than a regional thing in the US, I'm not exactly in high school anymore
"Jock" was NEVER gender neutral where I grew up. It referred specifically to guys heavily into sports, partying, harassing/bullying nerds and geeks, dating the cheerleaders, and only passing classes because the teachers made sure of it so they didn't get kicked off the football team. Classic Revenge of the Nerds type characters.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
It has gender connotations, I'll give you that, (comes from "jockstrap,") and it's used primarily for men because of the general disinterest in women's sport, (a whole other discussion but certainly related,) but it's not *brother.*
Also you can look both "jock" and "bro" up on urban dictionary and see which looks more offensive.
This is interesting, because a lot of us aren't even American.
I can't wait to see how they're going to translate it to Norwegian. We don't have that word at all. The way they translate it will tell me which one of all of your explanations to the word that is actually the meaning EA is trying to convey.
I think the "less intelligent, not very mature jock"-explanation is the one. The "bros before ****"- blah blah.
The urban dictionary definition is exactly how we use "bro". Both males and females use it in that way - at my job, in my friend circle, my mom even used it to describe the new pizza delivery guy that she dislikes. It is not gender neutral nor is it a complement. It's interesting to hear how others use it and even though I wouldn't buy this game with stolen money, I'll still be interested to see how they implemented this trait.
I really wasn't trying to argue or debate with you over how you perceive the words or how they are or were used in your area. I was just stating how they are for me and how I perceive them based on the area and culture I grew up in. I really find it interesting that "bro" would have more misogynistic connotations to you than "jock" which, for me, was always the epitome of obnoxious, testosterone-poisoned males where I'm from. I don't really care how the urban dictionary defines them--while I'm sure there's some accuracy, as you can see from this thread alone, different areas and cultures (even in the same country) perceive the terms differently.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
Fair enough. I only think it's unwise to include a term that has negative connotations, even if that isn't always the case.
You know what I would find far more offensive? Being referred to as "Loser", "Mean Spirited", "Neurotic", "Inappropriate", "Insane", "Kleptomaniac", "Hot-Headed" or "Evil" (just to name a few.) Point is, traits have never been about if YOU'D like to be compared to it. They are traits — not judgement.
Those are natural traits people actually posses (except for loser) A bro is not a natural trait. It is a group of disgusting idiots.
You make a good point!
But those are gender-neutral traits, and you didn't create your one and only demo around them. You chose a male-centered demo, centered on a male subculture (i.e., bros). I've seen a number of young women assert that females can be bros, too, but honestly, I don't know how females can be bros. It makes no sense to me.
Yeah, I'm old. But .... you know what, I give up. I could never win with you people back in the days when I was a SimMaster, and I can't win now. You will do what you will do, without thought, without apology, without regret, and we the 🐸🐸🐸🐸 will buy it. Yeah, I'm still buying it. More bad, me.
See SimGuruCopeland's response above. The traits encompass a huge variety of characteristics, both good and bad. Obviously, for some people, using the "bro" trait will be a good characterstic while for others, it won't be. If you take out all the negative traits, you'd be removing at least half, if not more, of what's available and making all your sims pretty plain, vanilla with no bad traits at all.
Not exactly what I'm looking for with the game.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
I guess all in all it's just a greeting. It doesn't really matter anyway, it is just a trait. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. It's just another fun way for your sim to act toward others.
There are a lot of traits I don't use. It's your game. I can see where if you got guys (room mates) living together using that trait. could be fun. Hanging out together. Might just try it. who knows.
All those traits you referred to above can be used universally to describe all kinds of people, no matter their race, gender, regional location, ect.
"Bro" is oddly specific and applies to one type of male specifically, at least where I sit. If the "Bro" trait is something out of a college freshman woman's safety course, then you'll see me "judgement" posting. For now, I'll just continue discussing it's use with other simmers to see how they use the word.
None of those terms can be connected to misogynistic behavior, and they're all gender neutral.