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Lucky Girl - Completed

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    hellohannah2hellohannah2 Posts: 839 Member
    edited January 2023
    @DaniRose2143 you too!

    Yes this exactly . The way they've been carrying on might not phase a different person, but for Evie, who is the way that she is, it's impossibly cruel. Jen meant well, but absolutely shouldn't have ever gotten involved - and Jude probably isn't thinking about anybody else but himself & his new exciting life at the moment. I wonder is it crueler for him to maintain contact with her, even if it prolongs her suffering, or cut her off completely and stop talking in the hopes that she'll forget about him. Probably the best solution is somewhere in the middle, but he's a dumb teenage boy - he's going to choose the dumbest and most teenage-boy-like solution every time.
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    DaniRose2143DaniRose2143 Posts: 8,856 Member
    @hellohannah2 I'm a people pleaser myself and when I find myself in these types of situations I'm always asking myself what did I do wrong. I can relate to Evie becoming fixated on a broken relationship feeling like she has to figure out why she caused the other person to walk away. We can't see that sometimes it's not us that is wrong, it's them.

    The best solution to their relationship would have been from message one after he left for Berlin, clearly say that you want to stay in touch but that it cannot be anything more than friendship. Clearly define the relationship and the boundaries. As a teenage boy he has no clue that relationships have layers and complexities and need to be evaluated and redefined from time to time. In Evie's relationship with Jude, if I was her, I would want him to break my heart now. Prolonging the relationship and contact while not defining what is and isn't possible just makes the heart break worse. Sure, I'm going to be distraught, I'm going to cry my eyes out, and possibly ruin a girlfriend's blouse from using her shoulder to cry on, but I will heal faster and move on quicker if he doesn't drag things out.
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    Kellogg_J_KelloggKellogg_J_Kellogg Posts: 1,552 Member
    I liked the scenes with the parents as it gives a glimpse into the characters Evie and Jude are. I imagine Evie's mother being very much like her when she was a teenager and that she's been through that hurt before, hence her protectiveness. Jude's parents REALLY inform his character. There's something of the "vision of the anointed" about them: They're always right, they're often judgemental and I would wager that they've always indulged Jude and told him he too is one of the anointed, hence that's why he takes decisions on behalf of other people without stopping to think whether they want to go along with him or not. On the one hand Jude is a boy of culture, taste and intelligence...on the other hand he's cruel to his sister and not just in a way that's sibling rivalry. There might be a fine gentleman inside Jude...but until he hits a barrier and someone tells him no, firmly, he'll trade on his looks and charm.
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    Kellogg_J_KelloggKellogg_J_Kellogg Posts: 1,552 Member
    Hannah...if you ever doubt your prowess as a writer, look upon this thread and see how we're all dissecting your tale and characters. We're hooked.
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    hellohannah2hellohannah2 Posts: 839 Member
    edited January 2023
    @Kellogg_J_Kellogg I love this - this kind of discussion really makes me so happy, because I really am trying to put all of these subtle indicators into the story, so it's so great that you are all picking them out and noticing them.

    This is exactly what I wanted to do with the last chapter of part 1 - it's supposed to be a subtle "coming back to reality" moment. On the beach, to an extent, everybody could pretend that they were equal, just a crowd of teenagers hanging out with each other where their social standing doesn't mean all that much, but when they get home it's different. Evie grew up with very little, and a mother who didn't do much to bolster her self confidence. She doesn't really believe that she's anything special, she doesn't feel she deserves anything, and apart from being a good artist, she doesn't think she's worth that much. Jude is the opposite to her, and has always felt he was unique. He's beautiful, charismatic, interesting, what with his background growing up in another country, and from a wealthy family. He has a sense that he's "too good" for things. Too good for 'boring' or 'uncool' people, too good to stay in Ireland, and to an extent, maybe too good for Evie too. His mother's absolute disinterest in her, as someone who doesn't go to a private school and isn't from the city like they are was supposed to kind of reflect this. They have the same eyes - the judgement in them feels like it could be his.

    There are loads of hints about his not-so-great character at this point, but as a teenager it's difficult to exist without taking on some feelings and opinions of your parents. He will have the chance to reflect on himself, maybe, and grow, but for now he can't really hide the kind of person that he is. The only trouble is that Evie is in love with him. Even if she sees him act out in front of her, she won't see it negatively. He tells his sister she's bad at playing the piano? Oh well, I guess he's just being silly. It's nice to see him play with her. He's constantly doing wrong, but she won't see it like that. Young people are often totally blinded by their feelings and what they want to see, rather than what really is.
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    hellohannah2hellohannah2 Posts: 839 Member
    @DaniRose2143 absolutely! He isn't even thinking about her, really, maybe he thinks he is, but if he truly was and truly cared then he would have had a conversation with her about her expectations, instead of just leaving her on read. Without closure it can be impossible to let somebody go, and that's the situation he's putting her in now. Unfortunately teenagers - especially Irish teenagers - are absolutely dreadful at effective communication.
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    DaniRose2143DaniRose2143 Posts: 8,856 Member
    @hellohannah2 When you introduced us to his family so much of his character became clear in an instant. He is a reflection of his parents. Love especially when we’re young blinds us. The rose colored glasses affect, and Evie is caught in it.

    Claire is the closet that Evie has to a positive influence but she doesn’t understand Evie as well as she might think. Claire has that same rosy view of the world as a whole that Evie has of Jude. It’s good that Evie has her even if she’s far from perfect.
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    hellohannah2hellohannah2 Posts: 839 Member
    I've added a resources tab to my blog, just to include some relevant information that might be useful in upcoming chapters (or useful to explain stuff you've already read.) You'll still get what's going on even if you don't read any of it, but for some extra insight or some insider-info so you're thinking more like an Irish person when reading, it might be especially useful to read the bit about the Northside/Southside divide. It'll add a little more depth to your understanding of what it's like to live in Dublin city :)https://luckygirlstory.wordpress.com/resources/
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    hellohannah2hellohannah2 Posts: 839 Member
    Chapter 2.2 is out now! https://luckygirlstory.wordpress.com/2023/01/07/chapter-two-2/

    A slight time skip and we're at college! Welcome to Dublin city

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    mightyspritemightysprite Posts: 5,896 Member
    Oh lord
    She's a banker's kid and she won't stop moaning about gentrification
    She's all about smashing the patriarchy and she can't handle the fact that Evie hasn't kissed a boy in a while
    Gimme a break!!


    seriously, you created a terrific character there :)
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    Kellogg_J_KelloggKellogg_J_Kellogg Posts: 1,552 Member
    I agree, you create terrific characters
    Even if they are pretentious and hypocritical. Oh Evie, why are you drawn to such people?
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    DaniRose2143DaniRose2143 Posts: 8,856 Member
    @hellohannah2 You picked up where you left off with the quality of the story and the complexity of the characters. If anything you've taken a step up. I love your writing style.
    Evie attracts people that want to meddle in her love life. People! Leave her alone! Stop pestering her and let her move at her own pace. I feel Evie's discomfort at trying to fit into the city life. I was raised in a rural area, but I have always been a city girl at heart. The downside of city life is it's fast paced, frantic even, and people don't have a lot of patience with those that don't understand how it works. She'll be fine though.
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    hellohannah2hellohannah2 Posts: 839 Member
    @mightysprite @Kellogg_J_Kellogg @DaniRose2143

    Thank you all! Such lovely comments to read <3
    Marnie is a walking contradiction for sure - I've known people like this and it baffles me. Have you no self-awareness?? I think maybe the question isn't why is Evie drawn to these people, but why they're drawn to someone like her? Surely it's easier to surround yourself with agreeable people who will let you get away with anything you do... :wink:

    They DO need to leave her alone re: love life though, I think that's such a thing when you're young though - everyone is just comparing themselves to others, what they've done, what they haven't, it feels like a giant game of "never have I ever".

    Adjusting to a city can be really daunting, because everything seems to have different rules. It can be great, but there's always that Oh my gosh - what is going on here??? period.
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    haneulhaneul Posts: 1,953 Member
    edited January 2023
    I'm very far behind (just finished Chapter 9), but I've been following the discussion up to that point and I think it's interesting.
    Overall, I found the outing with Jude to the cemetery/abandoned church to be kind of sweet. Unlike other readers, I didn't get any feeling of danger. But my personality is an odd combination of people-pleasing and i-am-going-to-do-whatever-i-want. By the time I was 13, I stopped getting in trouble with my parents and when I was 16 - 18 of course I wouldn't go anywhere I didn't want to go so maybe I'm less likely to see Jude as controlling. Because Evie can open her mouth and tell him that she wants him to stop fooling around and take her home at any time, Jude didn't bother me here. Ideally, he should communicate more, but he's young too so I imagine he's a bit thoughtless. I also had a good group of friends growing up so if any guy did anything shady or malicious, he would be 100% instantly outcast, embarrassed, and lose everything, jeopardizing his entire future. My main concern would have been let's not get in trouble for trespassing and let's not get hurt (because we don't want to have to explain dumb teenage behavior to a doctor/parents/others and look like fools ("Oh yeah, my friend turned off the only light available while we were in this abandoned falling apart church in the middle of the night to see some stained glass window and talk about ghosts...")).

    I should add that I like your writing style. It's nice and atmospheric. This chapter shows it quite well.

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    hellohannah2hellohannah2 Posts: 839 Member
    edited January 2023
    @haneul I know that feeling - I'm so so bad at keeping up with stories, life gets in the way, you have to read at your own pace.
    When I wrote this chapter, I was reflected on an experience I'd had around Evie's age - i think I mentioned that earlier in the thread, and for me, it was a sweet and exciting experience. I didn't really think about how an adult might see it, but I guess that's always going to happen when you're sharing a story. Everybody sees things totally uniquely, no matter what the subject matter is, there are no two people who will come to it with the exact same feelings. I'm learning to let go of control of the narrative and how it comes across, because I just can't make anybody read into it the way that I want them to - it's actually really interesting. Lots of people will think that Evie and Jude's situation is frightening, and I completely understand why, but it's the kind of dumb thing lots of kids would do without thinking about the consequences of it. I'm coming back to unexpected cultural differences again and again to my surprise. I don't know if we were brought up with the same stranger-danger caution in Ireland as in other countries. Crime is so low, bad things rarely happen. My friends and I ran wild back in the 00s/10s and nobody seemed to care.

    It sounds like you had some great, protective friends around you when you were growing up, and you were wise to feel that way about trespassing and getting hurt - it'd sound so dumb to try and explain to an adult what your thought process was that brought you to such a strange place. I guess you live and learn there things..

    Thank you very much for that!
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    Kellogg_J_KelloggKellogg_J_Kellogg Posts: 1,552 Member
    I never thought...
    ...that Evie was in any danger with Jude. It would have been a sudden turn of events if Jude turned out to be a maniac or violent and the whole tone of Lucky Girl would be VERY different! What I don't like about Jude is that he takes decisions on behalf of other people, especially Evie, without asking if it's something she wants to do. She wanted to go home, he decided on the detour to the church without telling her. He does a lot of things like that but, as we see, part of that is down to his upbringing and his parents. Not that I'm not invested in his character either; he's compelling nonetheless. It could be that he thinks that the man must take charge, must make the decisions and given that he's treated by everyone else as talented, special and a cut above the rest it just feeds this belief in him.

    ...but maybe it's because, when I was that age, I was jealous of guys like him.
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    haneulhaneul Posts: 1,953 Member
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    @haneul I know that feeling - I'm so so bad at keeping up with stories, life gets in the way, you have to read at your own pace.
    When I wrote this chapter, I was reflected on an experience I'd had around Evie's age - i think I mentioned that earlier in the thread, and for me, it was a sweet and exciting experience. I didn't really think about how an adult might see it, but I guess that's always going to happen when you're sharing a story. Everybody sees things totally uniquely, no matter what the subject matter is, there are no two people who will come to it with the exact same feelings. I'm learning to let go of control of the narrative and how it comes across, because I just can't make anybody read into it the way that I want them to - it's actually really interesting. Lots of people will think that Evie and Jude's situation is frightening, and I completely understand why, but it's the kind of dumb thing lots of kids would do without thinking about the consequences of it. I'm coming back to unexpected cultural differences again and again to my surprise. I don't know if we were brought up with the same stranger-danger caution in Ireland as in other countries. Crime is so low, bad things rarely happen. My friends and I ran wild back in the 00s/10s and nobody seemed to care.

    I definitely understand why it may be frightening to some as well. Exploring an abandoned building sounds like a fun, dumb thing kids would do. I would have wanted to do it too... haha. I'm not sure if I would have, but I would have considered it because I was always up for an adventure. I wanted to say that I was in a low crime area as well, but my friends and I also traveled places where crime wasn't so low (NYC) and still acted the same. Maybe MZ generation feels a bit safer about these things because we've grown up with cell phones, it's fairly easy to keep track of where someone is, and the culture is at least slightly less victim-blamey.

    So, Chapter 10 ...
    I want to give Evie a shot of self-confidence, some youthful exuberance: Jude is too hot for her, she doesn't want him to see her books or her art... He's absolutely not and her books/art are fine. I wish her friends and family would rally around her more so that she doesn't feel so small.
    I think about how I do. I’m a clinger and I always have been, so his philosophy on life is totally foreign to me, just like the idea of jetting off to some unknown city all on my own without speaking the language or knowing how a single thing in its society operates. I think that he’s much braver than I am for doing it, but I’m a little sad that he’s going. Maybe in a parallel universe he and I would have attended the same art college and been friends who hung around in Dublin together after our respective classes, sitting outside coffee shops in the city and talking about art and sculpture and our silly assignments, but none of that will happen. In a few weeks he’ll be gone forever and I will likely never get to see him again.

    Perhaps she's just a realist, but it's interesting to me that her imagination is so limited. She can travel too - it doesn't have to be scary and one can always learn something of a city's language and society before visiting it (go to the library, pick up a book, do a Google search, etc.). Why would she never see him again? He could invite her to hang out in Berlin. It's not that far.

    Of course, my own background continues to influence how I read this. Since I was about 12 years old, it was clearly understood at school that everyone would be going different places for college. The idea of everyone staying in the same place or generally staying together was never a thing (if the whole city sends only 5 people to X uni., it's pretty clear we all can't go there - some people will need to go to Y uni. or Z uni...). So to not be weird or sad about it, by the time high school was ending, we planned to visit one another randomly (when the flights were cheap!) and get together when everyone returned for holidays. Maybe we would have sounded a bit like Jude, like where we were was somehow not good enough or that we were too good to stay. I imagine that can become a touchy subject quite quickly.

    I look forward to getting to the chapters where I get more insight into his personality and his family background.
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    hellohannah2hellohannah2 Posts: 839 Member
    edited January 2023
    @haneul

    Aha! Again, a really interesting take
    So yes, her worldview is limited, and I can see why that might be surprising, but later on in the story I'll touch on class and privilege a bit more, why might explain her mindset. Yes, Berlin is close, but her visiting him would depend on him actually wanting her to come and see him. At this point in her story she doesn't know what he thinks about her, and doesn't really think that he'd bother asking her. She feels it's a one sided thing - she thinks he's too hot for her, too smart too popular, and just because she's interested in him doesn't mean he's interested back. Maybe he hangs out with girls in their bedrooms all the time, how would she know how these things are supposed to work?

    There's definitely a different feeling towards university here, when I first started watching films from the US where characters go to college I was surprised by how far they would travel for a school - the idea of having to get a flight there seemed very scary too me.
    Dublin is now one of the least affordable cities in the world, but a decade ago everybody moved there for college. It was basically the only acceptable choice, with 3 large universities and dozens and dozens of smaller colleges all within an hour maximum trip of each other, it was kind of expected that you'd end up being around everyone you knew. it was definitely a very exotic choice to study abroad, the attitude being, well, why would I go there when everything I need is here? Jude's break from the expectation really just felt like what his character would naturally do. Whether it's because he thinks he's too good for Ireland or because he's just yearning for something more is the question. I wish it had been more normal to study abroad, maybe it's something I would have enjoyed!
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    haneulhaneul Posts: 1,953 Member
    @hellohannah2
    So yes, her worldview is limited, and I can see why that might be surprising, but later on in the story I'll touch on class and privilege a bit more, why might explain her mindset. Yes, Berlin is close, but her visiting him would depend on him actually wanting her to come and see him. At this point in her story she doesn't know what he thinks about her, and doesn't really think that he'd bother asking her. She feels it's a one sided thing - she thinks he's too hot for her, too smart too popular, and just because she's interested in him doesn't mean he's interested back. Maybe he hangs out with girls in their bedrooms all the time, how would she know how these things are supposed to work?
    This is why I so badly want to give Evie some confidence. She can have a hot, smart, and popular boyfriend (who is hopefully kind and considerate of her as well). It may not be Jude, but hot, smart, and popular are things that she can have.

    I got that she wasn't confident in his feelings for her yet, but by this point, they're friends? Now that I think about it and her personality a bit more, they would probably need to be more than casual friends for her to take a trip to Berlin. She's not a jetsetter, so it wouldn't make sense for him to say, "If you come to Berlin, let's meet up." Casually traveling around is also a very privileged thing to do.
    it was definitely a very exotic choice to study abroad, the attitude being, well, why would I go there when everything I need is here?
    I don't want to make this a US-thing because not all of the US is like this and it's also not just the US, but there's an upper middle class attitude of "I'm going to X uni. because it's the best in the world (or at least top 10 in the world at) ... It makes no sense to stay here and study at a mediocre place. Why would I settle for less than the best I can get?" A lot of countries (including the US) have a really messy college/university system where acceptance rates are 4% - 7% at certain schools and it creates an interesting/toxic/less than ideal culture around education in some communities, but on the flip side, it also creates some independence and a willingness to study abroad and adventure around. For those in relationships like Jude and his ex, they can realistically hope for the same city, but when universities are handing out rejections all over the place, it would be hard for them to feel comfortable planning (instead of simply hoping and praying) to go to the same university. Everyone has to have a plan to go alone or with a new friend or two from their city or country they just met and who is also going.

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    hellohannah2hellohannah2 Posts: 839 Member
    Part 2 Chapter 3! https://luckygirlstory.wordpress.com/2023/01/15/chapter-three-2/

    A reunion of sorts in a bar - will Evie get the closure she's looking for?

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    mightyspritemightysprite Posts: 5,896 Member
    I'm happy you brought Jen back. That's an interesting character.
    Even if she might be into some not-so-savory things right now?

    and this part completely got me. very true.
    Men are obsessed with being the very first ones to tell women that they’re attractive, like it’s some gift that they are privileged to bestow upon us. We’re floundering, lost in the world, completely blind to ourselves until some man comes along and lets us know what he thinks about us. I can’t agree with him, say that I know, or I’ve heard it all before, because then he’ll think I’m up myself. It always feels like a trap.
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    hellohannah2hellohannah2 Posts: 839 Member
    edited January 2023
    @mightysprite

    I had to have her back! I love her, I think she's just great fun to write.
    and yes, maybe she's fallen into some bad habits in the last year and a half since we've seen her, but more on that later!

    Yeah that part about men telling women they're pretty is something that's bothered me for a long time. It's nice to be complimented, but it's the "hasn't anyone ever told you this before?" part that gets to me. It's as if they assume that you're really not attractive enough to have heard it from another person. It's truly a trap, a power move that puts you in a weird position where you can neither say yes or say no. Yes makes you arrogant, No hands over the power and allows him to feel smug. I hate hate hate this dynamic!!
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    DaniRose2143DaniRose2143 Posts: 8,856 Member
    edited January 2023
    @hellohannah2 This is a fascinating chapter.
    Just when Evie is getting past Jude here comes another reminder. I agree with Evie that she can't have Jen in her life. Not right now anyhow and definitely not if it means coming face to face with Jude. It's good that she feels like she broke Jude's spell over her but the way it all happened was so awkward. Evie wasn't really there of her own free will, not entirely. It was only an act of appeasement really.

    The thing with drinks having lewd names is framed as being fun and throwing off the burden of society's stodgy rules. It's the unspoken truth that those names and the drinks themselves are a device that give cover to men for their predatory acts. They're a trap as well. If you don't partake you're stuck up or a prude. If you have one and things take turn that ends in assault, well you were asking for it. You were having this drink called such and such, so you were clearly sending signals that you were on the pull and that the 'poor unsuspecting man' was being mislead. If does come to that they can spin it so that you were the one that was trying to trap them. Having drinks like that at home with a partner who you are in a committed relationship with can be fun. In public with strangers it's a very different, darker dynamic.
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    Kellogg_J_KelloggKellogg_J_Kellogg Posts: 1,552 Member
    edited January 2023
    I'd forgotten how judgemental, pretentious and conformist student life was like back in the day. I share Evie's frustrations at the whole scene...although I never smoked, even for show...but the pressure to go to certain places, drink certain things and react a certain way was ever present.
    She's not over Jude. I suspect that every guy that comes along will be judged to his standard by Evie.
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