Well and if you are counting enemy NPC's and not just benign ones yes they have the ability to fight and some better than link they have strategy's to their fight styles and you have to learn those, I'm not sure whether or not they could climb trees like Zelda but they did have forts they were on top of and when you figured out how to let the plank down they could run down that plank and gang up on you they wouldn't wait to fight you like in earlier versions. So the NPC's are highly interactive but not in the same way Sims are. And if you got the attention of the scout troll by shooting at him he'd alert the others and they'd go searching for you. There was one troll that before killing he gave us some kind of clue about something it's been a week or two since I played it so I can't quite remember what it was now but yeah these NPC's are more advanced than they've ever been in Zelda.
Do you get the impression when you're playing that NPC's not on screen are performing tasks in the background?
Yes you could see them eat meals and sleep in fact it was easier to attack them when they were distracted. Oh and one time we came upon these two trolls on horses and they were chasing after a boar I helped them kill the boar and then took the spoil and I think those trolls fled after that I don't remember if we killed them or not.
Gotcha...
So here's the thing...do you imagine that the game could support 8 different avatars being in different places at the same time. where you could switch to them seemlessly without the aid of a loading screen?
Well and if you are counting enemy NPC's and not just benign ones yes they have the ability to fight and some better than link they have strategy's to their fight styles and you have to learn those, I'm not sure whether or not they could climb trees like Zelda but they did have forts they were on top of and when you figured out how to let the plank down they could run down that plank and gang up on you they wouldn't wait to fight you like in earlier versions. So the NPC's are highly interactive but not in the same way Sims are. And if you got the attention of the scout troll by shooting at him he'd alert the others and they'd go searching for you. There was one troll that before killing he gave us some kind of clue about something it's been a week or two since I played it so I can't quite remember what it was now but yeah these NPC's are more advanced than they've ever been in Zelda.
Do you get the impression when you're playing that NPC's not on screen are performing tasks in the background?
Yes you could see them eat meals and sleep in fact it was easier to attack them when they were distracted. Oh and one time we came upon these two trolls on horses and they were chasing after a boar I helped them kill the boar and then took the spoil and I think those trolls fled after that I don't remember if we killed them or not.
Gotcha...
So here's the thing...do you imagine that the game could support 8 different avatars being in different places at the same time. where you could switch to them seemlessly without the aid of a loading screen?
Well that's an interesting question because I think Zelda has sort of played with this concept but the way they did this exchanging from one character to another was very different from the way Sims does it. Sims is the more of the complex method of doing this because you actually switch to another character. What Zelda has done in the past (in Majora's mask) is given Zelda clothes to change into that transformed him into another species or as in Twilight Princess you transform into a wolf and one of the sky people (I didn't play that one so much as watch a little bit of my friend play this one) so you do get to play from a different perspective but I guess you are still Link in the end.
This is the only weak point in game play that I can find in any Legend of Zelda game is the solitary single style play. I always dream big about how they could improve on games and I did this with Zelda as well. I always liked the concept of him running little errands for the NPC's in the game (as he does in several iterations) I wished he could pick up companions along the way and you could play them as well and they could help with your quests like cooperation play (there are other games that have this to a limited extent like in some spots of different Resident Evil games do this).
Iv'e played several role playing games where you have a group in one game (Dot Hack Infection) you had a little band who had different fighting skills (axe-man, bowman, sorcerer, broad sword and another it's been a while since I've played) but you could skill up each player in their skill set by taking on enemies (the bigger the enemy the higher the hit points the more a character's skill was used the bigger the increase in skill) you could play the whole group or each individual. Now this had an openish world concept because they could travel freely around these large areas and collecting ingredients that they could trade in towns and the areas had landscape features like mountains and lakes and rivers and buildings and a dungeon where at the end you would fight the boss of the dungeon or mini-boss this is a playstation 2 game. The only thing was the graphics aren't as good as Zelda and you had more of the Mario (Nintendo 64) jumping in and out of pictures concept to visit different worlds but each world had it's own theme though some of them did look very similar to the rest.
There was also this game called Elder Scrolls (I think) that was on Nintendo 64 that had a huge open world concept and had hunting and gathering techniques and you were on a quest like adventure with a group that played similarly to Dot Hack Infection but as far as being as detailed as Sims no I've never run across any game that had the type of play that Sims have with switching between characters. In Dot Hack Infection, Elder Scrolls and Zelda there are properties in the types of clothes that the characters wear that help give them different abilities or powers or to protect them. In Ocarina Zelda visited other species to help them out and they would share special clothing that would help him survive in different environments. Not that I'd want Sims clothes to have special powers or give the wearer special powers (well maybe make them feel more fabulous or sad cause they were wearing old clothes or I could see dark clothes giving thieves an advantage, I actually do that when I'm playing a thief I have them dress in dark clothes, well especially work out clothes cause I pretend that they go out in those clothes to do their misdeeds) but I like how the different games had a group feel even though you couldn't actually switch between characters like you can with Sims.
Since Sims 2 I'd always dreamt about on an outing it would feel like if the clock didn't fly by so fast and you could do little meaningful interactions in a group outing not just talk but well do crazy stuff like me and my friends IRL would go to Wal-mart and take clothes and make cute outfits and then hang them in different places, not that I'd like to see that exact thing in a Sims game but what I mean is have a feeling of comraderie and companionship and shared experiences 4's emotions make it easier for me to have that feeling but the way they characters wouldn't face each other when they interacted or NPC characters just randomly busted in on a private conversation took me out of that feeling. I agree there should be some interaction like maybe accidentally bumping into someone or you know like in real life people make comments about what is happening around them (when it's appropriate and they know they aren't interrupting a private conversation). Ok I'm stopping here this is too much for anybody to read.
They listened and gave us toddlers! Thanks Devs your work is appreciated.
Well and if you are counting enemy NPC's and not just benign ones yes they have the ability to fight and some better than link they have strategy's to their fight styles and you have to learn those, I'm not sure whether or not they could climb trees like Zelda but they did have forts they were on top of and when you figured out how to let the plank down they could run down that plank and gang up on you they wouldn't wait to fight you like in earlier versions. So the NPC's are highly interactive but not in the same way Sims are. And if you got the attention of the scout troll by shooting at him he'd alert the others and they'd go searching for you. There was one troll that before killing he gave us some kind of clue about something it's been a week or two since I played it so I can't quite remember what it was now but yeah these NPC's are more advanced than they've ever been in Zelda.
Do you get the impression when you're playing that NPC's not on screen are performing tasks in the background?
Yes you could see them eat meals and sleep in fact it was easier to attack them when they were distracted. Oh and one time we came upon these two trolls on horses and they were chasing after a boar I helped them kill the boar and then took the spoil and I think those trolls fled after that I don't remember if we killed them or not.
Gotcha...
So here's the thing...do you imagine that the game could support 8 different avatars being in different places at the same time. where you could switch to them seemlessly without the aid of a loading screen?
Well that's an interesting question because I think Zelda has sort of played with this concept but the way they did this exchanging from one character to another was very different from the way Sims does it. Sims is the more of the complex method of doing this because you actually switch to another character. What Zelda has done in the past (in Majora's mask) is given Zelda clothes to change into that transformed him into another species or as in Twilight Princess you transform into a wolf and one of the sky people (I didn't play that one so much as watch a little bit of my friend play this one) so you do get to play from a different perspective but I guess you are still Link in the end.
This is the only weak point in game play that I can find in any Legend of Zelda game is the solitary single style play. I always dream big about how they could improve on games and I did this with Zelda as well. I always liked the concept of him running little errands for the NPC's in the game (as he does in several iterations) I wished he could pick up companions along the way and you could play them as well and they could help with your quests like cooperation play (there are other games that have this to a limited extent like in some spots of different Resident Evil games do this).
Iv'e played several role playing games where you have a group in one game (Dot Hack Infection) you had a little band who had different fighting skills (axe-man, bowman, sorcerer, broad sword and another it's been a while since I've played) but you could skill up each player in their skill set by taking on enemies (the bigger the enemy the higher the hit points the more a character's skill was used the bigger the increase in skill) you could play the whole group or each individual. Now this had an openish world concept because they could travel freely around these large areas and collecting ingredients that they could trade in towns and the areas had landscape features like mountains and lakes and rivers and buildings and a dungeon where at the end you would fight the boss of the dungeon or mini-boss this is a playstation 2 game. The only thing was the graphics aren't as good as Zelda and you had more of the Mario (Nintendo 64) jumping in and out of pictures concept to visit different worlds but each world had it's own theme though some of them did look very similar to the rest.
There was also this game called Elder Scrolls (I think) that was on Nintendo 64 that had a huge open world concept and had hunting and gathering techniques and you were on a quest like adventure with a group that played similarly to Dot Hack Infection but as far as being as detailed as Sims no I've never run across any game that had the type of play that Sims have with switching between characters. In Dot Hack Infection, Elder Scrolls and Zelda there are properties in the types of clothes that the characters wear that help give them different abilities or powers or to protect them. In Ocarina Zelda visited other species to help them out and they would share special clothing that would help him survive in different environments. Not that I'd want Sims clothes to have special powers or give the wearer special powers (well maybe make them feel more fabulous or sad cause they were wearing old clothes or I could see dark clothes giving thieves an advantage, I actually do that when I'm playing a thief I have them dress in dark clothes, well especially work out clothes cause I pretend that they go out in those clothes to do their misdeeds) but I like how the different games had a group feel even though you couldn't actually switch between characters like you can with Sims.
Since Sims 2 I'd always dreamt about on an outing it would feel like if the clock didn't fly by so fast and you could do little meaningful interactions in a group outing not just talk but well do crazy stuff like me and my friends IRL would go to Wal-mart and take clothes and make cute outfits and then hang them in different places, not that I'd like to see that exact thing in a Sims game but what I mean is have a feeling of comraderie and companionship and shared experiences 4's emotions make it easier for me to have that feeling but the way they characters wouldn't face each other when they interacted or NPC characters just randomly busted in on a private conversation took me out of that feeling. I agree there should be some interaction like maybe accidentally bumping into someone or you know like in real life people make comments about what is happening around them (when it's appropriate and they know they aren't interrupting a private conversation). Ok I'm stopping here this is too much for anybody to read.
Lol, sounds like you're really enjoying Zelda.
I'm not really sure if you actually adressed the question though
Would it be reasonable to expect that you could play that game from 8 different POV's in seperate parts of the world simultaneously?
Have 8 different characters and the NPC's around them all hitting up the CPU for resources at the same time?
See the thing is if TS4 were to follow in the footsteps of TS3 a few things would have had to happen.
The reasonable expectation would have been for a marginal graphical improvement and the virtual elimination of all of the issues that plagued TS3 in addition to (and this is important) new and improved features.
It wouldn't have been enough for them to just rebuild TS3 in such a way that it eliminated the old problems.
The expectation is that the game should have included everything that TS3 had, virtual elimination of all bugs and all new features to set it apart from it's predeccessor.
On top of this the problem with adding new content to a single instance doesn't go away...ever...no matter how powerful the end user's computer is or how well designed the engine is..there is only so much content you can pile into a single instance before bugs are introduced and the infrastructure strains under the weight. Especially in an environment where end users are tinkering with the code in the form of Mods and CC
Now keep this in mind...everything I just described here is a problem for the team to solve before they have touched a single Sim
which would have also had to be built from scratch...and we haven't even talked about CAS or build mode yet.
Everything we're discussing here is 100% about the environment and how to make all of it accessible without loading screens and no bugs or glitches.
What I'm saying is that the very best we TS3 fans could have hoped for was a relatively bug free reboot of TS3 with a marginal graphical improvement. Anything beyond this would have pushed minimum spec requirements into the stratosphere and been extremely difficult if not impossible to develop in a four year time span... Especially if the expectation is that the game should be as big and pretty as games like Zelda. GTA or Fallout which only focus on one location and one avatar at a time.
Well and if you are counting enemy NPC's and not just benign ones yes they have the ability to fight and some better than link they have strategy's to their fight styles and you have to learn those, I'm not sure whether or not they could climb trees like Zelda but they did have forts they were on top of and when you figured out how to let the plank down they could run down that plank and gang up on you they wouldn't wait to fight you like in earlier versions. So the NPC's are highly interactive but not in the same way Sims are. And if you got the attention of the scout troll by shooting at him he'd alert the others and they'd go searching for you. There was one troll that before killing he gave us some kind of clue about something it's been a week or two since I played it so I can't quite remember what it was now but yeah these NPC's are more advanced than they've ever been in Zelda.
Do you get the impression when you're playing that NPC's not on screen are performing tasks in the background?
Yes you could see them eat meals and sleep in fact it was easier to attack them when they were distracted. Oh and one time we came upon these two trolls on horses and they were chasing after a boar I helped them kill the boar and then took the spoil and I think those trolls fled after that I don't remember if we killed them or not.
Gotcha...
So here's the thing...do you imagine that the game could support 8 different avatars being in different places at the same time. where you could switch to them seemlessly without the aid of a loading screen?
Well that's an interesting question because I think Zelda has sort of played with this concept but the way they did this exchanging from one character to another was very different from the way Sims does it. Sims is the more of the complex method of doing this because you actually switch to another character. What Zelda has done in the past (in Majora's mask) is given Zelda clothes to change into that transformed him into another species or as in Twilight Princess you transform into a wolf and one of the sky people (I didn't play that one so much as watch a little bit of my friend play this one) so you do get to play from a different perspective but I guess you are still Link in the end.
This is the only weak point in game play that I can find in any Legend of Zelda game is the solitary single style play. I always dream big about how they could improve on games and I did this with Zelda as well. I always liked the concept of him running little errands for the NPC's in the game (as he does in several iterations) I wished he could pick up companions along the way and you could play them as well and they could help with your quests like cooperation play (there are other games that have this to a limited extent like in some spots of different Resident Evil games do this).
Iv'e played several role playing games where you have a group in one game (Dot Hack Infection) you had a little band who had different fighting skills (axe-man, bowman, sorcerer, broad sword and another it's been a while since I've played) but you could skill up each player in their skill set by taking on enemies (the bigger the enemy the higher the hit points the more a character's skill was used the bigger the increase in skill) you could play the whole group or each individual. Now this had an openish world concept because they could travel freely around these large areas and collecting ingredients that they could trade in towns and the areas had landscape features like mountains and lakes and rivers and buildings and a dungeon where at the end you would fight the boss of the dungeon or mini-boss this is a playstation 2 game. The only thing was the graphics aren't as good as Zelda and you had more of the Mario (Nintendo 64) jumping in and out of pictures concept to visit different worlds but each world had it's own theme though some of them did look very similar to the rest.
There was also this game called Elder Scrolls (I think) that was on Nintendo 64 that had a huge open world concept and had hunting and gathering techniques and you were on a quest like adventure with a group that played similarly to Dot Hack Infection but as far as being as detailed as Sims no I've never run across any game that had the type of play that Sims have with switching between characters. In Dot Hack Infection, Elder Scrolls and Zelda there are properties in the types of clothes that the characters wear that help give them different abilities or powers or to protect them. In Ocarina Zelda visited other species to help them out and they would share special clothing that would help him survive in different environments. Not that I'd want Sims clothes to have special powers or give the wearer special powers (well maybe make them feel more fabulous or sad cause they were wearing old clothes or I could see dark clothes giving thieves an advantage, I actually do that when I'm playing a thief I have them dress in dark clothes, well especially work out clothes cause I pretend that they go out in those clothes to do their misdeeds) but I like how the different games had a group feel even though you couldn't actually switch between characters like you can with Sims.
Since Sims 2 I'd always dreamt about on an outing it would feel like if the clock didn't fly by so fast and you could do little meaningful interactions in a group outing not just talk but well do crazy stuff like me and my friends IRL would go to Wal-mart and take clothes and make cute outfits and then hang them in different places, not that I'd like to see that exact thing in a Sims game but what I mean is have a feeling of comraderie and companionship and shared experiences 4's emotions make it easier for me to have that feeling but the way they characters wouldn't face each other when they interacted or NPC characters just randomly busted in on a private conversation took me out of that feeling. I agree there should be some interaction like maybe accidentally bumping into someone or you know like in real life people make comments about what is happening around them (when it's appropriate and they know they aren't interrupting a private conversation). Ok I'm stopping here this is too much for anybody to read.
Lol, sounds like you're really enjoying Zelda.
I'm not really sure if you actually adressed the question though
Would it be reasonable to expect that you could play that game from 8 different POV's simultaneously?
Have 8 different characters and the NPC's around them all hitting up the CPU for resources at the same time?
See the thing is if TS4 were to follow in the footsteps of TS3 a few things would have had to happen.
The expectation would have been for a marginal graphical improvement and the virtual elimination of all of the issues that plagued TS3 in addition to (and this is important) new and improved features.
It wouldn't have been enough for them to just rebuild TS3 in such a way that it eliminated the old problems.
The expectation is that the game should have included everything that TS3 had, virtual elimination of all bugs and all new features to set it apart from it's predeccessor.
On top of this the problem with adding new content to a single instance doesn't go away...ever...no matter how powerful the end user's computer is or how well designed the engine is..there is only so much content you can pile into a single instance before bugs are introduced and the infrastructure strains under the weight. Especially in an environment where end users are tinkering with the code in the form of Mods and CC
Now keep this in mind...everything I just described here is a problem for the team to solve before they have touched a single Sim
which would have also had to be built from scratch...and we haven't even talked about CAS or build mode yet.
Everything we're discussing here is 100% about the environment and how to make all of it accessible without loading screens and no bugs or glitches.
What I'm saying is that the very best we TS3 fans could have hoped for was a relatively bug free reboot of TS3 with a marginal graphical improvement. Anything beyond this would have pushed minimum spec requirements into the stratosphere and been extremely difficult if not impossible to develop in a four year time span... Especially if the expectation is that the game should be as big and pretty as games like Zelda. GTA or Fallout which only focus on one location and one avatar at a time.
Yeah but its what we really want surely there's some way to have our cake and eat it too lol What about if they had more than four years to work on it then could they work out the bugs and give us innovative game play? how about if they released a basic version with the new innovation but a more in depth version every (however long it would take to take the best of previous versions debug them and integrate the innovation?
They listened and gave us toddlers! Thanks Devs your work is appreciated.
Well and if you are counting enemy NPC's and not just benign ones yes they have the ability to fight and some better than link they have strategy's to their fight styles and you have to learn those, I'm not sure whether or not they could climb trees like Zelda but they did have forts they were on top of and when you figured out how to let the plank down they could run down that plank and gang up on you they wouldn't wait to fight you like in earlier versions. So the NPC's are highly interactive but not in the same way Sims are. And if you got the attention of the scout troll by shooting at him he'd alert the others and they'd go searching for you. There was one troll that before killing he gave us some kind of clue about something it's been a week or two since I played it so I can't quite remember what it was now but yeah these NPC's are more advanced than they've ever been in Zelda.
Do you get the impression when you're playing that NPC's not on screen are performing tasks in the background?
Yes you could see them eat meals and sleep in fact it was easier to attack them when they were distracted. Oh and one time we came upon these two trolls on horses and they were chasing after a boar I helped them kill the boar and then took the spoil and I think those trolls fled after that I don't remember if we killed them or not.
Gotcha...
So here's the thing...do you imagine that the game could support 8 different avatars being in different places at the same time. where you could switch to them seemlessly without the aid of a loading screen?
Well that's an interesting question because I think Zelda has sort of played with this concept but the way they did this exchanging from one character to another was very different from the way Sims does it. Sims is the more of the complex method of doing this because you actually switch to another character. What Zelda has done in the past (in Majora's mask) is given Zelda clothes to change into that transformed him into another species or as in Twilight Princess you transform into a wolf and one of the sky people (I didn't play that one so much as watch a little bit of my friend play this one) so you do get to play from a different perspective but I guess you are still Link in the end.
This is the only weak point in game play that I can find in any Legend of Zelda game is the solitary single style play. I always dream big about how they could improve on games and I did this with Zelda as well. I always liked the concept of him running little errands for the NPC's in the game (as he does in several iterations) I wished he could pick up companions along the way and you could play them as well and they could help with your quests like cooperation play (there are other games that have this to a limited extent like in some spots of different Resident Evil games do this).
Iv'e played several role playing games where you have a group in one game (Dot Hack Infection) you had a little band who had different fighting skills (axe-man, bowman, sorcerer, broad sword and another it's been a while since I've played) but you could skill up each player in their skill set by taking on enemies (the bigger the enemy the higher the hit points the more a character's skill was used the bigger the increase in skill) you could play the whole group or each individual. Now this had an openish world concept because they could travel freely around these large areas and collecting ingredients that they could trade in towns and the areas had landscape features like mountains and lakes and rivers and buildings and a dungeon where at the end you would fight the boss of the dungeon or mini-boss this is a playstation 2 game. The only thing was the graphics aren't as good as Zelda and you had more of the Mario (Nintendo 64) jumping in and out of pictures concept to visit different worlds but each world had it's own theme though some of them did look very similar to the rest.
There was also this game called Elder Scrolls (I think) that was on Nintendo 64 that had a huge open world concept and had hunting and gathering techniques and you were on a quest like adventure with a group that played similarly to Dot Hack Infection but as far as being as detailed as Sims no I've never run across any game that had the type of play that Sims have with switching between characters. In Dot Hack Infection, Elder Scrolls and Zelda there are properties in the types of clothes that the characters wear that help give them different abilities or powers or to protect them. In Ocarina Zelda visited other species to help them out and they would share special clothing that would help him survive in different environments. Not that I'd want Sims clothes to have special powers or give the wearer special powers (well maybe make them feel more fabulous or sad cause they were wearing old clothes or I could see dark clothes giving thieves an advantage, I actually do that when I'm playing a thief I have them dress in dark clothes, well especially work out clothes cause I pretend that they go out in those clothes to do their misdeeds) but I like how the different games had a group feel even though you couldn't actually switch between characters like you can with Sims.
Since Sims 2 I'd always dreamt about on an outing it would feel like if the clock didn't fly by so fast and you could do little meaningful interactions in a group outing not just talk but well do crazy stuff like me and my friends IRL would go to Wal-mart and take clothes and make cute outfits and then hang them in different places, not that I'd like to see that exact thing in a Sims game but what I mean is have a feeling of comraderie and companionship and shared experiences 4's emotions make it easier for me to have that feeling but the way they characters wouldn't face each other when they interacted or NPC characters just randomly busted in on a private conversation took me out of that feeling. I agree there should be some interaction like maybe accidentally bumping into someone or you know like in real life people make comments about what is happening around them (when it's appropriate and they know they aren't interrupting a private conversation). Ok I'm stopping here this is too much for anybody to read.
Lol, sounds like you're really enjoying Zelda.
I'm not really sure if you actually adressed the question though
Would it be reasonable to expect that you could play that game from 8 different POV's simultaneously?
Have 8 different characters and the NPC's around them all hitting up the CPU for resources at the same time?
See the thing is if TS4 were to follow in the footsteps of TS3 a few things would have had to happen.
The expectation would have been for a marginal graphical improvement and the virtual elimination of all of the issues that plagued TS3 in addition to (and this is important) new and improved features.
It wouldn't have been enough for them to just rebuild TS3 in such a way that it eliminated the old problems.
The expectation is that the game should have included everything that TS3 had, virtual elimination of all bugs and all new features to set it apart from it's predeccessor.
On top of this the problem with adding new content to a single instance doesn't go away...ever...no matter how powerful the end user's computer is or how well designed the engine is..there is only so much content you can pile into a single instance before bugs are introduced and the infrastructure strains under the weight. Especially in an environment where end users are tinkering with the code in the form of Mods and CC
Now keep this in mind...everything I just described here is a problem for the team to solve before they have touched a single Sim
which would have also had to be built from scratch...and we haven't even talked about CAS or build mode yet.
Everything we're discussing here is 100% about the environment and how to make all of it accessible without loading screens and no bugs or glitches.
What I'm saying is that the very best we TS3 fans could have hoped for was a relatively bug free reboot of TS3 with a marginal graphical improvement. Anything beyond this would have pushed minimum spec requirements into the stratosphere and been extremely difficult if not impossible to develop in a four year time span... Especially if the expectation is that the game should be as big and pretty as games like Zelda. GTA or Fallout which only focus on one location and one avatar at a time.
Yeah but its what we really want surely there's some way to have our cake and eat it too lol What about if they had more than four years to work on it then could they work out the bugs and give us innovative game play? how about if they released a basic version with the new innovation but a more in depth version every (however long it would take to take the best of previous versions debug them and integrate the innovation?
With enough time money and human resources sure.. most anything is possible, but is it practical?
Is it profitable for the company? Are the fans willing to wait that long? And how many people would have computers capable of playing such a game?
Well and if you are counting enemy NPC's and not just benign ones yes they have the ability to fight and some better than link they have strategy's to their fight styles and you have to learn those, I'm not sure whether or not they could climb trees like Zelda but they did have forts they were on top of and when you figured out how to let the plank down they could run down that plank and gang up on you they wouldn't wait to fight you like in earlier versions. So the NPC's are highly interactive but not in the same way Sims are. And if you got the attention of the scout troll by shooting at him he'd alert the others and they'd go searching for you. There was one troll that before killing he gave us some kind of clue about something it's been a week or two since I played it so I can't quite remember what it was now but yeah these NPC's are more advanced than they've ever been in Zelda.
Do you get the impression when you're playing that NPC's not on screen are performing tasks in the background?
Yes you could see them eat meals and sleep in fact it was easier to attack them when they were distracted. Oh and one time we came upon these two trolls on horses and they were chasing after a boar I helped them kill the boar and then took the spoil and I think those trolls fled after that I don't remember if we killed them or not.
Gotcha...
So here's the thing...do you imagine that the game could support 8 different avatars being in different places at the same time. where you could switch to them seemlessly without the aid of a loading screen?
Well that's an interesting question because I think Zelda has sort of played with this concept but the way they did this exchanging from one character to another was very different from the way Sims does it. Sims is the more of the complex method of doing this because you actually switch to another character. What Zelda has done in the past (in Majora's mask) is given Zelda clothes to change into that transformed him into another species or as in Twilight Princess you transform into a wolf and one of the sky people (I didn't play that one so much as watch a little bit of my friend play this one) so you do get to play from a different perspective but I guess you are still Link in the end.
This is the only weak point in game play that I can find in any Legend of Zelda game is the solitary single style play. I always dream big about how they could improve on games and I did this with Zelda as well. I always liked the concept of him running little errands for the NPC's in the game (as he does in several iterations) I wished he could pick up companions along the way and you could play them as well and they could help with your quests like cooperation play (there are other games that have this to a limited extent like in some spots of different Resident Evil games do this).
Iv'e played several role playing games where you have a group in one game (Dot Hack Infection) you had a little band who had different fighting skills (axe-man, bowman, sorcerer, broad sword and another it's been a while since I've played) but you could skill up each player in their skill set by taking on enemies (the bigger the enemy the higher the hit points the more a character's skill was used the bigger the increase in skill) you could play the whole group or each individual. Now this had an openish world concept because they could travel freely around these large areas and collecting ingredients that they could trade in towns and the areas had landscape features like mountains and lakes and rivers and buildings and a dungeon where at the end you would fight the boss of the dungeon or mini-boss this is a playstation 2 game. The only thing was the graphics aren't as good as Zelda and you had more of the Mario (Nintendo 64) jumping in and out of pictures concept to visit different worlds but each world had it's own theme though some of them did look very similar to the rest.
There was also this game called Elder Scrolls (I think) that was on Nintendo 64 that had a huge open world concept and had hunting and gathering techniques and you were on a quest like adventure with a group that played similarly to Dot Hack Infection but as far as being as detailed as Sims no I've never run across any game that had the type of play that Sims have with switching between characters. In Dot Hack Infection, Elder Scrolls and Zelda there are properties in the types of clothes that the characters wear that help give them different abilities or powers or to protect them. In Ocarina Zelda visited other species to help them out and they would share special clothing that would help him survive in different environments. Not that I'd want Sims clothes to have special powers or give the wearer special powers (well maybe make them feel more fabulous or sad cause they were wearing old clothes or I could see dark clothes giving thieves an advantage, I actually do that when I'm playing a thief I have them dress in dark clothes, well especially work out clothes cause I pretend that they go out in those clothes to do their misdeeds) but I like how the different games had a group feel even though you couldn't actually switch between characters like you can with Sims.
Since Sims 2 I'd always dreamt about on an outing it would feel like if the clock didn't fly by so fast and you could do little meaningful interactions in a group outing not just talk but well do crazy stuff like me and my friends IRL would go to Wal-mart and take clothes and make cute outfits and then hang them in different places, not that I'd like to see that exact thing in a Sims game but what I mean is have a feeling of comraderie and companionship and shared experiences 4's emotions make it easier for me to have that feeling but the way they characters wouldn't face each other when they interacted or NPC characters just randomly busted in on a private conversation took me out of that feeling. I agree there should be some interaction like maybe accidentally bumping into someone or you know like in real life people make comments about what is happening around them (when it's appropriate and they know they aren't interrupting a private conversation). Ok I'm stopping here this is too much for anybody to read.
Lol, sounds like you're really enjoying Zelda.
I'm not really sure if you actually adressed the question though
Would it be reasonable to expect that you could play that game from 8 different POV's simultaneously?
Have 8 different characters and the NPC's around them all hitting up the CPU for resources at the same time?
See the thing is if TS4 were to follow in the footsteps of TS3 a few things would have had to happen.
The expectation would have been for a marginal graphical improvement and the virtual elimination of all of the issues that plagued TS3 in addition to (and this is important) new and improved features.
It wouldn't have been enough for them to just rebuild TS3 in such a way that it eliminated the old problems.
The expectation is that the game should have included everything that TS3 had, virtual elimination of all bugs and all new features to set it apart from it's predeccessor.
On top of this the problem with adding new content to a single instance doesn't go away...ever...no matter how powerful the end user's computer is or how well designed the engine is..there is only so much content you can pile into a single instance before bugs are introduced and the infrastructure strains under the weight. Especially in an environment where end users are tinkering with the code in the form of Mods and CC
Now keep this in mind...everything I just described here is a problem for the team to solve before they have touched a single Sim
which would have also had to be built from scratch...and we haven't even talked about CAS or build mode yet.
Everything we're discussing here is 100% about the environment and how to make all of it accessible without loading screens and no bugs or glitches.
What I'm saying is that the very best we TS3 fans could have hoped for was a relatively bug free reboot of TS3 with a marginal graphical improvement. Anything beyond this would have pushed minimum spec requirements into the stratosphere and been extremely difficult if not impossible to develop in a four year time span... Especially if the expectation is that the game should be as big and pretty as games like Zelda. GTA or Fallout which only focus on one location and one avatar at a time.
Yeah but its what we really want surely there's some way to have our cake and eat it too lol What about if they had more than four years to work on it then could they work out the bugs and give us innovative game play? how about if they released a basic version with the new innovation but a more in depth version every (however long it would take to take the best of previous versions debug them and integrate the innovation?
With enough time money and human resources sure.. most anything is possible, but is it practical?
Is it profitable for the company? Are the fans willing to wait that long? And how many people would have computers capable of playing such a game?
Yes it would be profitable for the company you'd be pacifying the now crowd that wants and needs a new game up front but charge more for the more in depth game because it takes longer to build etc.,. The basic game would be kind of like the preview for the more complex game and if people like the innovation of the new basic then they will also be likely to buy the more complex in depth one. Like I said elsewhere in this forum, EA already releases Sims across other platforms like console and as phone apps so why wouldn't you have a basic game and a deluxe one? You got to know that this game is like an addiction for us Simmers we absolutely can't put it down. I didn't see myself buying 4 but after good news about toddlers and really missing it I went ahead against my better judgment and bought it anyway (It's good and I knew it would be but I still miss some of the innovations from 3). Some people are collectors and would collect any Sims game coming or going. It seems a little inordinate that you have a bunch of people that are asking and begging for this awesome game to be made and yet no one wants to make it? I don't understand this, it's money in the bank we've been saying this all along. Would I pay for a more in depth game that had the features of the previous ones plus the new innovation you better believe it, (and if I knew I was getting everything I wanted I wouldn't wait either I might have to save up but I wouldn't wait 3 years) and if it had to be on some type of new gaming system (to handle all extra specs) you better believe that I'd buy that as well. A new gaming system wouldn't that be making lots and lots of money right there?
They listened and gave us toddlers! Thanks Devs your work is appreciated.
Well and if you are counting enemy NPC's and not just benign ones yes they have the ability to fight and some better than link they have strategy's to their fight styles and you have to learn those, I'm not sure whether or not they could climb trees like Zelda but they did have forts they were on top of and when you figured out how to let the plank down they could run down that plank and gang up on you they wouldn't wait to fight you like in earlier versions. So the NPC's are highly interactive but not in the same way Sims are. And if you got the attention of the scout troll by shooting at him he'd alert the others and they'd go searching for you. There was one troll that before killing he gave us some kind of clue about something it's been a week or two since I played it so I can't quite remember what it was now but yeah these NPC's are more advanced than they've ever been in Zelda.
Do you get the impression when you're playing that NPC's not on screen are performing tasks in the background?
Yes you could see them eat meals and sleep in fact it was easier to attack them when they were distracted. Oh and one time we came upon these two trolls on horses and they were chasing after a boar I helped them kill the boar and then took the spoil and I think those trolls fled after that I don't remember if we killed them or not.
Gotcha...
So here's the thing...do you imagine that the game could support 8 different avatars being in different places at the same time. where you could switch to them seemlessly without the aid of a loading screen?
Well that's an interesting question because I think Zelda has sort of played with this concept but the way they did this exchanging from one character to another was very different from the way Sims does it. Sims is the more of the complex method of doing this because you actually switch to another character. What Zelda has done in the past (in Majora's mask) is given Zelda clothes to change into that transformed him into another species or as in Twilight Princess you transform into a wolf and one of the sky people (I didn't play that one so much as watch a little bit of my friend play this one) so you do get to play from a different perspective but I guess you are still Link in the end.
This is the only weak point in game play that I can find in any Legend of Zelda game is the solitary single style play. I always dream big about how they could improve on games and I did this with Zelda as well. I always liked the concept of him running little errands for the NPC's in the game (as he does in several iterations) I wished he could pick up companions along the way and you could play them as well and they could help with your quests like cooperation play (there are other games that have this to a limited extent like in some spots of different Resident Evil games do this).
Iv'e played several role playing games where you have a group in one game (Dot Hack Infection) you had a little band who had different fighting skills (axe-man, bowman, sorcerer, broad sword and another it's been a while since I've played) but you could skill up each player in their skill set by taking on enemies (the bigger the enemy the higher the hit points the more a character's skill was used the bigger the increase in skill) you could play the whole group or each individual. Now this had an openish world concept because they could travel freely around these large areas and collecting ingredients that they could trade in towns and the areas had landscape features like mountains and lakes and rivers and buildings and a dungeon where at the end you would fight the boss of the dungeon or mini-boss this is a playstation 2 game. The only thing was the graphics aren't as good as Zelda and you had more of the Mario (Nintendo 64) jumping in and out of pictures concept to visit different worlds but each world had it's own theme though some of them did look very similar to the rest.
There was also this game called Elder Scrolls (I think) that was on Nintendo 64 that had a huge open world concept and had hunting and gathering techniques and you were on a quest like adventure with a group that played similarly to Dot Hack Infection but as far as being as detailed as Sims no I've never run across any game that had the type of play that Sims have with switching between characters. In Dot Hack Infection, Elder Scrolls and Zelda there are properties in the types of clothes that the characters wear that help give them different abilities or powers or to protect them. In Ocarina Zelda visited other species to help them out and they would share special clothing that would help him survive in different environments. Not that I'd want Sims clothes to have special powers or give the wearer special powers (well maybe make them feel more fabulous or sad cause they were wearing old clothes or I could see dark clothes giving thieves an advantage, I actually do that when I'm playing a thief I have them dress in dark clothes, well especially work out clothes cause I pretend that they go out in those clothes to do their misdeeds) but I like how the different games had a group feel even though you couldn't actually switch between characters like you can with Sims.
Since Sims 2 I'd always dreamt about on an outing it would feel like if the clock didn't fly by so fast and you could do little meaningful interactions in a group outing not just talk but well do crazy stuff like me and my friends IRL would go to Wal-mart and take clothes and make cute outfits and then hang them in different places, not that I'd like to see that exact thing in a Sims game but what I mean is have a feeling of comraderie and companionship and shared experiences 4's emotions make it easier for me to have that feeling but the way they characters wouldn't face each other when they interacted or NPC characters just randomly busted in on a private conversation took me out of that feeling. I agree there should be some interaction like maybe accidentally bumping into someone or you know like in real life people make comments about what is happening around them (when it's appropriate and they know they aren't interrupting a private conversation). Ok I'm stopping here this is too much for anybody to read.
Lol, sounds like you're really enjoying Zelda.
I'm not really sure if you actually adressed the question though
Would it be reasonable to expect that you could play that game from 8 different POV's simultaneously?
Have 8 different characters and the NPC's around them all hitting up the CPU for resources at the same time?
See the thing is if TS4 were to follow in the footsteps of TS3 a few things would have had to happen.
The expectation would have been for a marginal graphical improvement and the virtual elimination of all of the issues that plagued TS3 in addition to (and this is important) new and improved features.
It wouldn't have been enough for them to just rebuild TS3 in such a way that it eliminated the old problems.
The expectation is that the game should have included everything that TS3 had, virtual elimination of all bugs and all new features to set it apart from it's predeccessor.
On top of this the problem with adding new content to a single instance doesn't go away...ever...no matter how powerful the end user's computer is or how well designed the engine is..there is only so much content you can pile into a single instance before bugs are introduced and the infrastructure strains under the weight. Especially in an environment where end users are tinkering with the code in the form of Mods and CC
Now keep this in mind...everything I just described here is a problem for the team to solve before they have touched a single Sim
which would have also had to be built from scratch...and we haven't even talked about CAS or build mode yet.
Everything we're discussing here is 100% about the environment and how to make all of it accessible without loading screens and no bugs or glitches.
What I'm saying is that the very best we TS3 fans could have hoped for was a relatively bug free reboot of TS3 with a marginal graphical improvement. Anything beyond this would have pushed minimum spec requirements into the stratosphere and been extremely difficult if not impossible to develop in a four year time span... Especially if the expectation is that the game should be as big and pretty as games like Zelda. GTA or Fallout which only focus on one location and one avatar at a time.
Yeah but its what we really want surely there's some way to have our cake and eat it too lol What about if they had more than four years to work on it then could they work out the bugs and give us innovative game play? how about if they released a basic version with the new innovation but a more in depth version every (however long it would take to take the best of previous versions debug them and integrate the innovation?
With enough time money and human resources sure.. most anything is possible, but is it practical?
Is it profitable for the company? Are the fans willing to wait that long? And how many people would have computers capable of playing such a game?
Yes it would be profitable for the company you'd be pacifying the now crowd that wants and needs a new game up front but charge more for the more in depth game because it takes longer to build etc.,. The basic game would be kind of like the preview for the more complex game and if people like the innovation of the new basic then they will also be likely to buy the more complex in depth one. Like I said elsewhere in this forum, EA already releases Sims across other platforms like console and as phone apps so why wouldn't you have a basic game and a deluxe one? You got to know that this game is like an addiction for us Simmers we absolutely can't put it down. I didn't see myself buying 4 but after good news about toddlers and really missing it I went ahead against my better judgment and bought it anyway (It's good and I knew it would be but I still miss some of the innovations from 3). Some people are collectors and would collect any Sims game coming or going. It seems a little inordinate that you have a bunch of people that are asking and begging for this awesome game to be made and yet no one wants to make it? I don't understand this, it's money in the bank we've been saying this all along. Would I pay for a more in depth game that had the features of the previous ones plus the new innovation you better believe it, (and if I knew I was getting everything I wanted I wouldn't wait either I might have to save up but I wouldn't wait 3 years) and if it had to be on some type of new gaming system (to handle all extra specs) you better believe that I'd buy that as well. A new gaming system wouldn't that be making lots and lots of money right there?
Fair enough.
It's been a pleasure chatting with you.
Well and if you are counting enemy NPC's and not just benign ones yes they have the ability to fight and some better than link they have strategy's to their fight styles and you have to learn those, I'm not sure whether or not they could climb trees like Zelda but they did have forts they were on top of and when you figured out how to let the plank down they could run down that plank and gang up on you they wouldn't wait to fight you like in earlier versions. So the NPC's are highly interactive but not in the same way Sims are. And if you got the attention of the scout troll by shooting at him he'd alert the others and they'd go searching for you. There was one troll that before killing he gave us some kind of clue about something it's been a week or two since I played it so I can't quite remember what it was now but yeah these NPC's are more advanced than they've ever been in Zelda.
Do you get the impression when you're playing that NPC's not on screen are performing tasks in the background?
Yes you could see them eat meals and sleep in fact it was easier to attack them when they were distracted. Oh and one time we came upon these two trolls on horses and they were chasing after a boar I helped them kill the boar and then took the spoil and I think those trolls fled after that I don't remember if we killed them or not.
Gotcha...
So here's the thing...do you imagine that the game could support 8 different avatars being in different places at the same time. where you could switch to them seemlessly without the aid of a loading screen?
Well that's an interesting question because I think Zelda has sort of played with this concept but the way they did this exchanging from one character to another was very different from the way Sims does it. Sims is the more of the complex method of doing this because you actually switch to another character. What Zelda has done in the past (in Majora's mask) is given Zelda clothes to change into that transformed him into another species or as in Twilight Princess you transform into a wolf and one of the sky people (I didn't play that one so much as watch a little bit of my friend play this one) so you do get to play from a different perspective but I guess you are still Link in the end.
This is the only weak point in game play that I can find in any Legend of Zelda game is the solitary single style play. I always dream big about how they could improve on games and I did this with Zelda as well. I always liked the concept of him running little errands for the NPC's in the game (as he does in several iterations) I wished he could pick up companions along the way and you could play them as well and they could help with your quests like cooperation play (there are other games that have this to a limited extent like in some spots of different Resident Evil games do this).
Iv'e played several role playing games where you have a group in one game (Dot Hack Infection) you had a little band who had different fighting skills (axe-man, bowman, sorcerer, broad sword and another it's been a while since I've played) but you could skill up each player in their skill set by taking on enemies (the bigger the enemy the higher the hit points the more a character's skill was used the bigger the increase in skill) you could play the whole group or each individual. Now this had an openish world concept because they could travel freely around these large areas and collecting ingredients that they could trade in towns and the areas had landscape features like mountains and lakes and rivers and buildings and a dungeon where at the end you would fight the boss of the dungeon or mini-boss this is a playstation 2 game. The only thing was the graphics aren't as good as Zelda and you had more of the Mario (Nintendo 64) jumping in and out of pictures concept to visit different worlds but each world had it's own theme though some of them did look very similar to the rest.
There was also this game called Elder Scrolls (I think) that was on Nintendo 64 that had a huge open world concept and had hunting and gathering techniques and you were on a quest like adventure with a group that played similarly to Dot Hack Infection but as far as being as detailed as Sims no I've never run across any game that had the type of play that Sims have with switching between characters. In Dot Hack Infection, Elder Scrolls and Zelda there are properties in the types of clothes that the characters wear that help give them different abilities or powers or to protect them. In Ocarina Zelda visited other species to help them out and they would share special clothing that would help him survive in different environments. Not that I'd want Sims clothes to have special powers or give the wearer special powers (well maybe make them feel more fabulous or sad cause they were wearing old clothes or I could see dark clothes giving thieves an advantage, I actually do that when I'm playing a thief I have them dress in dark clothes, well especially work out clothes cause I pretend that they go out in those clothes to do their misdeeds) but I like how the different games had a group feel even though you couldn't actually switch between characters like you can with Sims.
Since Sims 2 I'd always dreamt about on an outing it would feel like if the clock didn't fly by so fast and you could do little meaningful interactions in a group outing not just talk but well do crazy stuff like me and my friends IRL would go to Wal-mart and take clothes and make cute outfits and then hang them in different places, not that I'd like to see that exact thing in a Sims game but what I mean is have a feeling of comraderie and companionship and shared experiences 4's emotions make it easier for me to have that feeling but the way they characters wouldn't face each other when they interacted or NPC characters just randomly busted in on a private conversation took me out of that feeling. I agree there should be some interaction like maybe accidentally bumping into someone or you know like in real life people make comments about what is happening around them (when it's appropriate and they know they aren't interrupting a private conversation). Ok I'm stopping here this is too much for anybody to read.
Lol, sounds like you're really enjoying Zelda.
I'm not really sure if you actually adressed the question though
Would it be reasonable to expect that you could play that game from 8 different POV's simultaneously?
Have 8 different characters and the NPC's around them all hitting up the CPU for resources at the same time?
See the thing is if TS4 were to follow in the footsteps of TS3 a few things would have had to happen.
The expectation would have been for a marginal graphical improvement and the virtual elimination of all of the issues that plagued TS3 in addition to (and this is important) new and improved features.
It wouldn't have been enough for them to just rebuild TS3 in such a way that it eliminated the old problems.
The expectation is that the game should have included everything that TS3 had, virtual elimination of all bugs and all new features to set it apart from it's predeccessor.
On top of this the problem with adding new content to a single instance doesn't go away...ever...no matter how powerful the end user's computer is or how well designed the engine is..there is only so much content you can pile into a single instance before bugs are introduced and the infrastructure strains under the weight. Especially in an environment where end users are tinkering with the code in the form of Mods and CC
Now keep this in mind...everything I just described here is a problem for the team to solve before they have touched a single Sim
which would have also had to be built from scratch...and we haven't even talked about CAS or build mode yet.
Everything we're discussing here is 100% about the environment and how to make all of it accessible without loading screens and no bugs or glitches.
What I'm saying is that the very best we TS3 fans could have hoped for was a relatively bug free reboot of TS3 with a marginal graphical improvement. Anything beyond this would have pushed minimum spec requirements into the stratosphere and been extremely difficult if not impossible to develop in a four year time span... Especially if the expectation is that the game should be as big and pretty as games like Zelda. GTA or Fallout which only focus on one location and one avatar at a time.
Yeah but its what we really want surely there's some way to have our cake and eat it too lol What about if they had more than four years to work on it then could they work out the bugs and give us innovative game play? how about if they released a basic version with the new innovation but a more in depth version every (however long it would take to take the best of previous versions debug them and integrate the innovation?
With enough time money and human resources sure.. most anything is possible, but is it practical?
Is it profitable for the company? Are the fans willing to wait that long? And how many people would have computers capable of playing such a game?
Yes it would be profitable for the company you'd be pacifying the now crowd that wants and needs a new game up front but charge more for the more in depth game because it takes longer to build etc.,. The basic game would be kind of like the preview for the more complex game and if people like the innovation of the new basic then they will also be likely to buy the more complex in depth one. Like I said elsewhere in this forum, EA already releases Sims across other platforms like console and as phone apps so why wouldn't you have a basic game and a deluxe one? You got to know that this game is like an addiction for us Simmers we absolutely can't put it down. I didn't see myself buying 4 but after good news about toddlers and really missing it I went ahead against my better judgment and bought it anyway (It's good and I knew it would be but I still miss some of the innovations from 3). Some people are collectors and would collect any Sims game coming or going. It seems a little inordinate that you have a bunch of people that are asking and begging for this awesome game to be made and yet no one wants to make it? I don't understand this, it's money in the bank we've been saying this all along. Would I pay for a more in depth game that had the features of the previous ones plus the new innovation you better believe it, (and if I knew I was getting everything I wanted I wouldn't wait either I might have to save up but I wouldn't wait 3 years) and if it had to be on some type of new gaming system (to handle all extra specs) you better believe that I'd buy that as well. A new gaming system wouldn't that be making lots and lots of money right there?
Fair enough.
It's been a pleasure chatting with you.
Yes, same here have been enjoying our discussion thanks for putting up with all my rambling. lol
They listened and gave us toddlers! Thanks Devs your work is appreciated.
I have stated this already sometimes, TS3 worlds are great beautifull, complex, demanding and wonderfully full of gaming oportunities, and TS4 worlds... well such a thing just doesn´t exist. There is only a fake map and a fake background, even Winderburg that has been done with a little more detail is all fake
you can see it easily, let´s see this house
It is definitely by the beach, the road goes by the back fachade, not a tree in the whereabouts...
Now let´s see
where is the beach? and what is that road doing in front of the entrance? and where in the map are those forests?
Was it really so "difficult and expensive" to make the map and the backgrounds consistent with eachother? If you are doing a fake not-interactive not-editable background and you have drown a beach in the map, why don´t you make the background be a beach? why don´t you put the road where the map says it is? what were the devs thinking when they drow the map? could they not draw what the backgrounds showed? there´s not a Windenburg world, even TS2 has its own, though closed, but TS4 has none of the kind! After the lack of toddlers, (thanks h e a v e n fixed at last) this is a huge game-breaker for me
Bigger does not mean better.
1- Sims 3 worlds needed more time for the objects to render even though the game was fully loaded.
2- The worlds had mostly rabbit holes
3- Most venues in Sims 3 were empty
although TS4 worlds are smaller but does not have any of the above problems of TS3 worlds
I agree with this. Buuuuut... If Ea could make a s3 sized world with a good population, and less rabbit holes I would be happy. Plus, the objects do not take long to render if you have a gaming pc. TS3 is taxing gfx wise, but it's not a problem if your pc can handle it.
Correction! There are no "worlds" in Sims 4 but there *are* neighborhoods. Though a little smaller than Sims 2 but larger than Sims 1 of course -debatable (I forgot that as you install EPs for that game, the neighborhood expands). Oh and all the lots in those first 2 games are actually connected unlike the lots here which are all divided into little sub-hoods.
But yes, Sims 3's worlds are unbeatable due to the high amounts of creativity put into every single one of them.
Exactly. We are comparing apples and oranges, really.
Go ahead and keep broadcasting good things about TS3. I enjoyed TS3 before TS4 but I enjoy TS4 more. This subject has been discussed several times already. It's a repeat from last week.
Some people like one version better than others. It's already been debated over and over. There were both good and bad points in all the Sims games. I made up my mind though. I am sticking with TS4.
Yep, but people keep debating it as if they can somehow change people's opinions.
I don't care for how the worlds in sims4 look. Sims3 was so much more beautiful. I want that look back, if they must do loading screens I could live with that if I didn't have to have that horrible fake looking world.
I don't care for how the worlds in sims4 look. Sims3 was so much more beautiful. I want that look back, if they must do loading screens I could live with that if I didn't have to have that horrible fake looking world.
I am starting to get curious to how they would aproach things in TS5. It seems that one of the biggest complaints with TS4 is the worlds and for me personaly that is a deal breaker
The worlds of both games have their good, but also bad sides, in my opinion. The worlds of TS3 are bigger, have more room for customization and are, on top of that, also editable, which makes it easier to find place for sims or lots for WHEN you even manage to build on all this space Of course, there are TS3 worlds that have the opposite of many space *cough* Bridgeport *cough*, but the provided space definitely a big plus for me.
HOWEVER, and now my TS4 loving soul speaks, the worlds in TS4 are much prettier than the TS3 worlds. Many players literally hate the backdrops, however, I LOVE them more than anything else in these worlds, to be honest.
My top example for this is the comparison of the two city worlds, TS3s Bridgeport and TS4s San Myshuno:
As you can see, the picture shows the entire city. The problem I have with this is that Bridgeport is supposed to be a big city, however, its area is smaller than Sunset Valley, which is supposed to be a small town I like the details like the fx taxis of Bridgeport, but when I play in this world, I don't get the city feeling like I get in San Myshuno.
Sooo, this shows only ONE district of San Myshuno. I couldn't find a picture that shows it from the above, but you can see that the shown area has at least the size of Bridgeport in the picutre above. Nonetheless, I know that only a small area of this picture is even playable, and I would wish (maybe for TS5?) that the playable areas become bigger, but it's about the looks that make San Myshuno a city world that is much more believable.
What I would wish for the worlds in a TS5?
Make the playable areas bigge and open the lots that are in the same neighborhoods/districts, but please don't get rid of these backdrops, they are beautiful and give a true feeling to this worlds!
@Huiiie_07 I think what you're describing is a very personal way of processing the game for different players, and therefore a good thing to mention in a topic like this. Because it means there is no conclusive answer to the question what is better. All we can say is what works better for us, but that differs from player to player. When I open my game in San Myshuno, for a second I'm overwhelmed by the view. The sense of a real big town. Then however I start playing, and immediately it's like I'm looking at a wall instead of a real town down there. I follow my sims and in the distance there's this wonderful painting that means absolutely nothing in their lives.
I played a homeless sim in Bridgeport, which meant the streets were really important to him (and for me as his player obviously). That's where he lived, that's where he slept.
This is how his world looked by the way, so I absolutely disagree concerning 'prettier'.
But I guess that's personal as well.
Then winter came and he had to find warmer places to sleep, which meant inviting himself into other people's households. That of course is possible in Sims 4 as well, but for me that interaction of the cold street downstairs and the warmth of his lodging, contributed to the sense of a man without any possessings or shelter, his dependency on the charity of others. Because that street felt so close by. Literally, they did kick him out at some occasions.
What I'm trying to say, is that a map of a world doesn't mean anything to me where it comes to game experience. A view, a backdrop suggesting a huge town, is less important for me apparently than sensing and experiencing the world my sims live in, even when it looks smaller. And besides, this does look like a real town to me too, though maybe not as huge as San Myshuno.
Well, huge...
It feels a bit 'unfair' to me to show the map of one game and compare it to the view in the other I remember Grant Rodiek explaining the TS4 version of a town vs the TS3 version the way you are, but for me that only means he doesn't have a clue what matters to me as a player.
Sims 3 worlds are still breathtaking and beautiful.
(Unfortunately, I still struggle to get engaged by the actual Sims 3 gameplay. Missing some of the Sims 1/2 details and overall charm and liveliness for me. So it's like a beautiful painting that I can't really play much with. Beautiful to look at, but not fun for me to touch and live in. I have been playing more with Sims 4 lately.)
I don't care for how the worlds in sims4 look. Sims3 was so much more beautiful. I want that look back, if they must do loading screens I could live with that if I didn't have to have that horrible fake looking world.
I totally disagree. I think the sims 4 art style is more suitable for the type of game that the sims is and I think it's more inspiring and colorful. Not drab like sims 3, also the graphics are much better. But I simply prefer the sims 4, so that is my opinion.
The size of the worlds don't matter if the game is unplayable. Sims 3 takes ages to load even on high end computers. Factor in the extra time when you have lots of mods installed and it just isn't worth playing.
Nope. Let me stop you there. I will personally record my load up process with Nvidia Share with a timer. Ts3 on my laptop takes about a minute to a minute and a half to load up.
And I have tons of CC...like probably at least 1k items plus custom worlds I paid for.
I have been playing since S1 and started at age 12 in 2000. I have purchased every EP and SP religiously.
I was SO excited for S4, I had supremely high hopes because the game could only get more amazing, right?
I remember loading up S4 and then getting to Willow Creek and looking around, well.. looking at the blueprint of what was supposed to be my city, and just feeling my excitement deflate like a slashed tire. My husband was sitting beside me and I was asking him like, "This is it?? Are you so serious right now?!"
I had just dropped premium cash on this game, so I was determined to make it work.
I made a couple.. and I did and still do love the sliders and the customization of CAS.
I plopped said couple into their little cookie cutter house and as I'm a family player, we went for a baby asap.
Pregnancy is pretty cool in S4, I like that their entire body actually changes while pregnant and that the needs are similar to actual pregnancy but then the baby actually came and I was just like..wowkay.
So I took a jaunt around the neighborhood as everyone was out jogging. And umm... barely anything to interact with. No car, no bike.. and what is up with these loading screens?!
It was like watching a movie being made with the green screen instead of actually using REAL items. Just totally non immersive.
In S3.. there is ALWAYS something going on. Festivals, opportunities, people cheating and getting caught in public, protests, kleptomaniacs swiping lamps, dogs, wild horses running around, contests, skill classes, movie theaters playing a movie, people drinking at the bar then driving home.
Ts3 is literally bustling with activity!! Not to mention, the amount of stuff your sims can do.. the list is ridiculously long
I can be a mermaid crime lord that owns a resort. I can be a werewolf that raises horses and and works part time at the bookstore.
The possibilities are endless.
The quality of graphics, while not as crisp as TS4, are still gorgeous.
In S3 you can watch beautiful sunsets on the water, watch the snow fall during a full moon, watch the sunrise through a realistic fog and you can mold the world to be whatever you WANT it to be. The amount of creativity is endless. I still haven't done everything in S3 and I've been playing since release.
Do I want to play a skilling simulator in basically a playpen, fish bowl whatever you want to refer to the restrictions as? Uhh no.
Can you change YOUR neighborhood to turn it into what you want? Nope.
I also like my S3 community better. People are generally more pleasant, talkative, and knowledgeable.
This was a long rant but I just felt it needed to be said.
I will hop on the PC and put up some gorgeous captures of some S3 scenery soon.
TL;DR S3 blows S4 out of the water in every way except sliders and demand on the system.
Hold up, Hold up, Hold up, Hold up, HOLD UP!
You state this like it's an absolute fact. Guess what? It isn't.
While I don't care for the worlds in Sims 4 all that much, Sims 4 offers more to me as a player that I enjoy WAY more than Sims 3, which I also really, really like.
Thank you! I love sims 4. I tried to get into the sims 3, before I knew there would be a sims 4 anytime soon and I just couldn't get into it. Im happy for the ones who do enjoy that game, but to suggest that it is blowing anything out of the water, is taking it a bit too far.
Sims in sims 3 are robotic and less easier on the eyes. There is no feeling of a connection, for me personally , to those sims.
bunny-🐸🐸🐸🐸, are you sure you meant sims3?" beautiful painting that I can't really play with?". Really? But the world in sims3 is extremely beautiful and you can get involved in it. Especially with seasons, the autumn fog , or rain...and you go for a little ride in it. Lovely! As for sims 4( no pun inteneded) while reading the posts here I finally realized what is wrong with that game for me. It seems painted on a flat surface. Not only the backdrop but the sims, and the game play. flat, shallow no depth in it. And it shows how "much care' the developers take with the franchise, how "important" it is for them.
Sims 3 worlds are still incredible after all these years and having Sims 4 be so ridiculously small and having loading screens for every place, only further enhances just how great the worlds of Sims 3 are
bunny-🐸🐸🐸🐸, are you sure you meant sims3?" beautiful painting that I can't really play with?". Really? But the world in sims3 is extremely beautiful and you can get involved in it. Especially with seasons, the autumn fog , or rain...and you go for a little ride in it. Lovely!
As for sims 4( no pun inteneded) while reading the posts here I finally realized what is wrong with that game for me. It seems painted on a flat surface. Not only the backdrop but the sims, and the game play. flat, shallow no depth in it. And it shows how "much care' the developers take with the franchise, how "important" it is for them.
Let me correct myself and clarify.
Yes, Sims 3 worlds can be "interacted with", so yes, they are "technically" better than Sims 4 worlds.
BUT...
.... I just don't care about those types of worlds if I can't feel that engaged by the sims themselves.
I also hate dealing with the tedious traveling, etc. So I really, really, really don't care about "taking a ride" in said open worlds.
It's all just pretty aesthetics/ backgrounds to me in the end if I can't find a lot of enjoyment in the actual gameplay of the sims themselves.
Yes, you can explore more in Sims 3 worlds, so they are technically better than Sims 4's tiny neighborhoods and flat backdrops, but that doesn't mean I will personally like the Sims 3 game any better than Sims 4 just for that reason!
Unfortunately, I am also one of those simmers who sadly had dead towns and dead hangouts, so what is the purpose of me traveling to those empty lots? To stare and admire the view as my sims travel towards it?
I want actual gameplay when I play, not scenery viewing. For me, encountering, socializing, and interacting with other sims is one of my favorite things about playing sims.
Otherwise, it's just pretty spaces to wander around in. (For both Sims 3 and Sims 4.)
I find more enjoyment with open world or even closed worlds RPGs than Sims 3 because at least those games have more NPCs to interact with and engage with (even if many are not fleshed out characters). Same goes with my Sims 1 and Sims 2 games.
So, yeah, Sims 3 worlds are better, overall, being open and stuff, than Sims 4 worlds, but that doesn't mean I personally will actually have more fun in the actual gameplay just because of that freedom.
Fog or weather stuff will not make my towns any more lively, or make me feel more engaged with the sims.
(ETA: I do like Sims 3, but I often felt I was always missing something in Sims 3.... something that I got from Sims 2 and Sims 1. You know, just like how many Sims 3 fans would feel that something's missing from Sims 4 or even from Sims 2, etc? *shrugs*
Sims 3 has a lot of good stuff...but I don't know. I can never quite "gel" with it for some reason, even with the beautiful scenery. . I still like and love some parts of it, but I don't feel as invested in the sims in that game as much as the older games.
I will give that the Sims 3 sims do have much, much better emotional and reaction AI than Sims 4 sims, for sure, though. )
I don't care for how the worlds in sims4 look. Sims3 was so much more beautiful. I want that look back, if they must do loading screens I could live with that if I didn't have to have that horrible fake looking world.
I totally disagree. I think the sims 4 art style is more suitable for the type of game that the sims is and I think it's more inspiring and colorful. Not drab like sims 3, also the graphics are much better. But I simply prefer the sims 4, so that is my opinion.
I think art style is a matter of taste, indeed opinion like you say. Not something that is 'more suitable' (it's a bit odd you try to objectivize your opinion before admitting it is one). Sims 2 and 3 by the way have a similar art style (more than once have I mistaken a Sims 2 picture for a Sims 3 picture). I think this franchise can handle different art styles.
Comments
Gotcha...
So here's the thing...do you imagine that the game could support 8 different avatars being in different places at the same time. where you could switch to them seemlessly without the aid of a loading screen?
Well that's an interesting question because I think Zelda has sort of played with this concept but the way they did this exchanging from one character to another was very different from the way Sims does it. Sims is the more of the complex method of doing this because you actually switch to another character. What Zelda has done in the past (in Majora's mask) is given Zelda clothes to change into that transformed him into another species or as in Twilight Princess you transform into a wolf and one of the sky people (I didn't play that one so much as watch a little bit of my friend play this one) so you do get to play from a different perspective but I guess you are still Link in the end.
This is the only weak point in game play that I can find in any Legend of Zelda game is the solitary single style play. I always dream big about how they could improve on games and I did this with Zelda as well. I always liked the concept of him running little errands for the NPC's in the game (as he does in several iterations) I wished he could pick up companions along the way and you could play them as well and they could help with your quests like cooperation play (there are other games that have this to a limited extent like in some spots of different Resident Evil games do this).
Iv'e played several role playing games where you have a group in one game (Dot Hack Infection) you had a little band who had different fighting skills (axe-man, bowman, sorcerer, broad sword and another it's been a while since I've played) but you could skill up each player in their skill set by taking on enemies (the bigger the enemy the higher the hit points the more a character's skill was used the bigger the increase in skill) you could play the whole group or each individual. Now this had an openish world concept because they could travel freely around these large areas and collecting ingredients that they could trade in towns and the areas had landscape features like mountains and lakes and rivers and buildings and a dungeon where at the end you would fight the boss of the dungeon or mini-boss this is a playstation 2 game. The only thing was the graphics aren't as good as Zelda and you had more of the Mario (Nintendo 64) jumping in and out of pictures concept to visit different worlds but each world had it's own theme though some of them did look very similar to the rest.
There was also this game called Elder Scrolls (I think) that was on Nintendo 64 that had a huge open world concept and had hunting and gathering techniques and you were on a quest like adventure with a group that played similarly to Dot Hack Infection but as far as being as detailed as Sims no I've never run across any game that had the type of play that Sims have with switching between characters. In Dot Hack Infection, Elder Scrolls and Zelda there are properties in the types of clothes that the characters wear that help give them different abilities or powers or to protect them. In Ocarina Zelda visited other species to help them out and they would share special clothing that would help him survive in different environments. Not that I'd want Sims clothes to have special powers or give the wearer special powers (well maybe make them feel more fabulous or sad cause they were wearing old clothes or I could see dark clothes giving thieves an advantage, I actually do that when I'm playing a thief I have them dress in dark clothes, well especially work out clothes cause I pretend that they go out in those clothes to do their misdeeds) but I like how the different games had a group feel even though you couldn't actually switch between characters like you can with Sims.
Since Sims 2 I'd always dreamt about on an outing it would feel like if the clock didn't fly by so fast and you could do little meaningful interactions in a group outing not just talk but well do crazy stuff like me and my friends IRL would go to Wal-mart and take clothes and make cute outfits and then hang them in different places, not that I'd like to see that exact thing in a Sims game but what I mean is have a feeling of comraderie and companionship and shared experiences 4's emotions make it easier for me to have that feeling but the way they characters wouldn't face each other when they interacted or NPC characters just randomly busted in on a private conversation took me out of that feeling. I agree there should be some interaction like maybe accidentally bumping into someone or you know like in real life people make comments about what is happening around them (when it's appropriate and they know they aren't interrupting a private conversation). Ok I'm stopping here this is too much for anybody to read.
Lol, sounds like you're really enjoying Zelda.
I'm not really sure if you actually adressed the question though
Would it be reasonable to expect that you could play that game from 8 different POV's in seperate parts of the world simultaneously?
Have 8 different characters and the NPC's around them all hitting up the CPU for resources at the same time?
See the thing is if TS4 were to follow in the footsteps of TS3 a few things would have had to happen.
The reasonable expectation would have been for a marginal graphical improvement and the virtual elimination of all of the issues that plagued TS3 in addition to (and this is important) new and improved features.
It wouldn't have been enough for them to just rebuild TS3 in such a way that it eliminated the old problems.
The expectation is that the game should have included everything that TS3 had, virtual elimination of all bugs and all new features to set it apart from it's predeccessor.
On top of this the problem with adding new content to a single instance doesn't go away...ever...no matter how powerful the end user's computer is or how well designed the engine is..there is only so much content you can pile into a single instance before bugs are introduced and the infrastructure strains under the weight. Especially in an environment where end users are tinkering with the code in the form of Mods and CC
Now keep this in mind...everything I just described here is a problem for the team to solve before they have touched a single Sim
which would have also had to be built from scratch...and we haven't even talked about CAS or build mode yet.
Everything we're discussing here is 100% about the environment and how to make all of it accessible without loading screens and no bugs or glitches.
What I'm saying is that the very best we TS3 fans could have hoped for was a relatively bug free reboot of TS3 with a marginal graphical improvement. Anything beyond this would have pushed minimum spec requirements into the stratosphere and been extremely difficult if not impossible to develop in a four year time span...
Especially if the expectation is that the game should be as big and pretty as games like Zelda. GTA or Fallout which only focus on one location and one avatar at a time.
Yeah but its what we really want surely there's some way to have our cake and eat it too lol What about if they had more than four years to work on it then could they work out the bugs and give us innovative game play? how about if they released a basic version with the new innovation but a more in depth version every (however long it would take to take the best of previous versions debug them and integrate the innovation?
With enough time money and human resources sure.. most anything is possible, but is it practical?
Is it profitable for the company? Are the fans willing to wait that long? And how many people would have computers capable of playing such a game?
Yes it would be profitable for the company you'd be pacifying the now crowd that wants and needs a new game up front but charge more for the more in depth game because it takes longer to build etc.,. The basic game would be kind of like the preview for the more complex game and if people like the innovation of the new basic then they will also be likely to buy the more complex in depth one. Like I said elsewhere in this forum, EA already releases Sims across other platforms like console and as phone apps so why wouldn't you have a basic game and a deluxe one? You got to know that this game is like an addiction for us Simmers we absolutely can't put it down. I didn't see myself buying 4 but after good news about toddlers and really missing it I went ahead against my better judgment and bought it anyway (It's good and I knew it would be but I still miss some of the innovations from 3). Some people are collectors and would collect any Sims game coming or going. It seems a little inordinate that you have a bunch of people that are asking and begging for this awesome game to be made and yet no one wants to make it? I don't understand this, it's money in the bank we've been saying this all along. Would I pay for a more in depth game that had the features of the previous ones plus the new innovation you better believe it, (and if I knew I was getting everything I wanted I wouldn't wait either I might have to save up but I wouldn't wait 3 years) and if it had to be on some type of new gaming system (to handle all extra specs) you better believe that I'd buy that as well. A new gaming system wouldn't that be making lots and lots of money right there?
Fair enough.
It's been a pleasure chatting with you.
Yes, same here have been enjoying our discussion thanks for putting up with all my rambling. lol
Very interesting @junceda .
Need help falling asleep? http://wry7000.blogspot.com/
Everything about them is terrible. EA should be ashamed.
I agree with this. Buuuuut... If Ea could make a s3 sized world with a good population, and less rabbit holes I would be happy. Plus, the objects do not take long to render if you have a gaming pc. TS3 is taxing gfx wise, but it's not a problem if your pc can handle it.
Exactly. We are comparing apples and oranges, really.
Yep, but people keep debating it as if they can somehow change people's opinions.
I am starting to get curious to how they would aproach things in TS5. It seems that one of the biggest complaints with TS4 is the worlds and for me personaly that is a deal breaker
HOWEVER, and now my TS4 loving soul speaks, the worlds in TS4 are much prettier than the TS3 worlds. Many players literally hate the backdrops, however, I LOVE them more than anything else in these worlds, to be honest.
My top example for this is the comparison of the two city worlds, TS3s Bridgeport and TS4s San Myshuno:
As you can see, the picture shows the entire city. The problem I have with this is that Bridgeport is supposed to be a big city, however, its area is smaller than Sunset Valley, which is supposed to be a small town
Sooo, this shows only ONE district of San Myshuno. I couldn't find a picture that shows it from the above, but you can see that the shown area has at least the size of Bridgeport in the picutre above. Nonetheless, I know that only a small area of this picture is even playable, and I would wish (maybe for TS5?) that the playable areas become bigger, but it's about the looks that make San Myshuno a city world that is much more believable.
What I would wish for the worlds in a TS5?
Make the playable areas bigge and open the lots that are in the same neighborhoods/districts, but please don't get rid of these backdrops, they are beautiful and give a true feeling to this worlds!
I like to build stuff
I played a homeless sim in Bridgeport, which meant the streets were really important to him (and for me as his player obviously). That's where he lived, that's where he slept.
This is how his world looked by the way, so I absolutely disagree concerning 'prettier'.
But I guess that's personal as well.
Then winter came and he had to find warmer places to sleep, which meant inviting himself into other people's households. That of course is possible in Sims 4 as well, but for me that interaction of the cold street downstairs and the warmth of his lodging, contributed to the sense of a man without any possessings or shelter, his dependency on the charity of others. Because that street felt so close by. Literally, they did kick him out at some occasions.
What I'm trying to say, is that a map of a world doesn't mean anything to me where it comes to game experience. A view, a backdrop suggesting a huge town, is less important for me apparently than sensing and experiencing the world my sims live in, even when it looks smaller. And besides, this does look like a real town to me too, though maybe not as huge as San Myshuno.
Well, huge...
It feels a bit 'unfair' to me to show the map of one game and compare it to the view in the other
(Unfortunately, I still struggle to get engaged by the actual Sims 3 gameplay. Missing some of the Sims 1/2 details and overall charm and liveliness for me. So it's like a beautiful painting that I can't really play much with.
(She/her)
I totally disagree. I think the sims 4 art style is more suitable for the type of game that the sims is and I think it's more inspiring and colorful. Not drab like sims 3, also the graphics are much better. But I simply prefer the sims 4, so that is my opinion.
Thank you! I love sims 4. I tried to get into the sims 3, before I knew there would be a sims 4 anytime soon and I just couldn't get into it. Im happy for the ones who do enjoy that game, but to suggest that it is blowing anything out of the water, is taking it a bit too far.
Sims in sims 3 are robotic and less easier on the eyes. There is no feeling of a connection, for me personally , to those sims.
As for sims 4( no pun inteneded) while reading the posts here I finally realized what is wrong with that game for me. It seems painted on a flat surface. Not only the backdrop but the sims, and the game play. flat, shallow no depth in it. And it shows how "much care' the developers take with the franchise, how "important" it is for them.
Let me correct myself and clarify.
Yes, Sims 3 worlds can be "interacted with", so yes, they are "technically" better than Sims 4 worlds.
BUT...
.... I just don't care about those types of worlds if I can't feel that engaged by the sims themselves.
I also hate dealing with the tedious traveling, etc. So I really, really, really don't care about "taking a ride" in said open worlds.
It's all just pretty aesthetics/ backgrounds to me in the end if I can't find a lot of enjoyment in the actual gameplay of the sims themselves.
Yes, you can explore more in Sims 3 worlds, so they are technically better than Sims 4's tiny neighborhoods and flat backdrops, but that doesn't mean I will personally like the Sims 3 game any better than Sims 4 just for that reason!
Unfortunately, I am also one of those simmers who sadly had dead towns and dead hangouts, so what is the purpose of me traveling to those empty lots? To stare and admire the view as my sims travel towards it?
I want actual gameplay when I play, not scenery viewing. For me, encountering, socializing, and interacting with other sims is one of my favorite things about playing sims.
Otherwise, it's just pretty spaces to wander around in. (For both Sims 3 and Sims 4.)
I find more enjoyment with open world or even closed worlds RPGs than Sims 3 because at least those games have more NPCs to interact with and engage with (even if many are not fleshed out characters). Same goes with my Sims 1 and Sims 2 games.
So, yeah, Sims 3 worlds are better, overall, being open and stuff, than Sims 4 worlds, but that doesn't mean I personally will actually have more fun in the actual gameplay just because of that freedom.
Fog or weather stuff will not make my towns any more lively, or make me feel more engaged with the sims.
(ETA: I do like Sims 3, but I often felt I was always missing something in Sims 3.... something that I got from Sims 2 and Sims 1. You know, just like how many Sims 3 fans would feel that something's missing from Sims 4 or even from Sims 2, etc? *shrugs*
Sims 3 has a lot of good stuff...but I don't know. I can never quite "gel" with it for some reason, even with the beautiful scenery.
I will give that the Sims 3 sims do have much, much better emotional and reaction AI than Sims 4 sims, for sure, though. )
(She/her)