I also catch myself having some trouble (in a gigglish way) when she's at home in Windenburg, which feels like Romantische Straße Germany, and the next moment after an invitation we find ourselves in the Arizona desert of Oasis Springs. Sorry, but that's like an eleven hour flight and a jetlag away.
For some reason I haven't seen that brought up before, but the way integration between separate towns in TS4 is handled is actually what almost kills it for me.
While I initially did not like the closed world, I figured it was something I could get used to. The fake backdrops, the fake cars, the way community lots are handled (it's about on par with the emptier community lots of TS3. It was handled more logically with TS3 but I do like having busy lots in TS4), fine. But the fact that sims from literally any town will just come and go in whatever town they please...I'm sorry. I shouldn't see the populace of one small German town in my Louisiana swamp just because!
I still play the game but surely they could have thought that one through better. At least before making worlds that are obviously in very separate parts of the world.
The closed world was the big killer for me out of the box and still continues to be my biggest bone of contention. The closed world places high on the ever expanding list of why I simply gave up on this game. Its so backward in thinking as though they are oblivious that they are in a saturated gaming market with better games to entice players,
@JoAnne65
I'm sorry I threw open world in with sims3 experiences. Its something that tends to get done by a lot of people because usually when people bring up open world, is because its the only game to have it in the franchise. But you're right I shouldn't have mentioned those things and should have stayed on topic talking about the open worlds. So I'll admit to having chosen the wrong things to talk about there.
It wasn't necessarily open world that was the problem but other things (like the way the world was built that created routing issues). It did have problems, like how long it took to get from point a to point b. My poor firefighter never made it to those fires in time haha. But when you play a game where it takes your sims 30 minutes to use the restroom, I suppose you can't expect to do anything in a timely fashion. I do agree that a lot of people, myself included, tend to relate everything to open world when we shouldn't. I enjoyed open world, I thought it was a neat idea, but its never been something that I miss in my game. However, I wouldn't mind if the team felt it was a good idea to bring open world back to the sims5. I'll just readjust the way I play the game again.
If the worlds of The Sims 3, although open, have a great reputation for ghost town, I have no doubt that it is not for nothing. My computer have very high settingsh, and the game continues desert. Someone could explain this? Can anyone explain me why my ram 32GB, my geforce gtx 980 4GB and my core i7 are not able to make a living neighborhood with many Sims walking from one side to the other?
The Sims 4 was a game originally created to be Online. The project failed and decided to redesign part of its structure. There was not time enough to improve every possible aspect of the game, and that's why he was released with many missing features.
I no longer care about the loading screen, this created an incredible level of stability to the game, and I'm playing with the same save (and in the same house) from when the game was released. In The Sims 3, I've lost accounts of how many times my save stopped working and I had to start all over again. The game was not well optimized, and that's a fact.
I appreciate the fact that The Sims 4 is programmed in Python. Its structure is more organized and separated compared to Sims 3, and the number of serious errors in this generation is smaller than in the previous generation.
In The Sims 3, I've lost accounts of how many times my save stopped working and I had to start all over again. The game was not well optimized, and that's a fact.
I sometimes saved 2 or 3 times per sim-day in Sims 3. Each one had to be a "save as" in case I didn't notice some corruption that could take several sim-days to show up. Sims 3 file maintenance was a regular part of my computer maintenance.
I don't mind closed worlds for the sake of performance. This remind me of The Sims 2, my favorite iteration. However, I do not understand a few things:
1. Why we have the same joggers and walkers in different neighbourhoods?
I don't believe that Bella Goth from Willow Creek goes all the way to Windenburg's island for jogging. I just want to see my actual neighbours. I do not believe that it was too complex to implement.
2. Why do we have to accept default world decorations?
It feels like I'm forced to build the way they chose. Let us choose the decorations! Remember how it was in TS2?
3. Okay, unplayable-unreachable decorations are not meant to be customized. But what was so difficult about common areas, like community gardens and playgrounds and bbq areas? Why can't we edit it? If it is about performance, just limit the quantity of object we can place on those areas.
If people were not interested in what we were making we wouldn't continue what we are making. Our data shows us differently. (c) - @SimGuruDrake(LINK) Complexity is our enemy when building The Sims, so we look for any opportunity to keep it down. (c) - @SimGuruMax(LINK)
In The Sims 3, I've lost accounts of how many times my save stopped working and I had to start all over again. The game was not well optimized, and that's a fact.
I sometimes saved 2 or 3 times per sim-day in Sims 3. Each one had to be a "save as" in case I didn't notice some corruption that could take several sim-days to show up. Sims 3 file maintenance was a regular part of my computer maintenance.
I always took good care of my main "save-game", and I used the "save as" but even so, had multiple loading failures, crashes, and sometimes the save-game just did not work.
In The Sims 4 I never had to make any effort or worry, it still works since the first time I played on September 2, 2014.
To me personally, it's better to have a closed, lively world than an open ghost-town, which is what Sims 3 felt like most of the time.
The two (open world/lively world) are not mutually exclusive.
I always had plenty of sims in my towns and on the community lots in Sims 3. My friend, who played on a far less capable computer had the "ghost town" affect.
To me personally, it's better to have a closed, lively world than an open ghost-town, which is what Sims 3 felt like most of the time.
The two (open world/lively world) are not mutually exclusive.
They aren't, but they are related. It's a shear matter of numbers. In an open world, every sim has to be in some location. This means that your entire population is spread out among your entire town. If your population is high (or dense), then your world feels lively.
In closed worlds (or even open neighborhoods), the game will always be able to select a number of residents from the population to drop into the active neighborhood. No matter your game's total population or computer capability, the game can make your neighborhood feel lively.
Again, ultimately I agree with you that they aren't mutually exclusive. I think with well-optimized programming you could have both. The thing is, we're talking about the Sims team. They've always been much more on the creative side than the engineering side. That's not a slight on them, the game probably wouldn't be as fun if it were the other way around.
If the worlds of The Sims 3, although open, have a great reputation for ghost town, I have no doubt that it is not for nothing. My computer have very high settingsh, and the game continues desert. Someone could explain this? Can anyone explain me why my ram 32GB, my geforce gtx 980 4GB and my core i7 are not able to make a living neighborhood with many Sims walking from one side to the other?
The Sims 4 was a game originally created to be Online. The project failed and decided to redesign part of its structure. There was not time enough to improve every possible aspect of the game, and that's why he was released with many missing features.
I no longer care about the loading screen, this created an incredible level of stability to the game, and I'm playing with the same save (and in the same house) from when the game was released. In The Sims 3, I've lost accounts of how many times my save stopped working and I had to start all over again. The game was not well optimized, and that's a fact.
I appreciate the fact that The Sims 4 is programmed in Python. Its structure is more organized and separated compared to Sims 3, and the number of serious errors in this generation is smaller than in the previous generation.
I had that to or you would send your sims on vacation and the game would corrupt the family tree. So I like how this game is because I haven't had to start over due to a corrupt save file.
I had mods that allowed you to control 20+ sims on a single family in Sims 3 (used it for creating detailed screenshots). Now, THAT did have problems. Wasn't perfect with open world by any stretch, actually, lot of issues. Still wouldn't have it any other way.
@ravamaile For your #1 do you have neighbors? I really don't pay attention to who walks by, but I know my neighbors do the most (when I create/place them and therefore know who they are by sight.) But, I realized by my 3rd gen everyone in every house had died and the houses in my game were not being re-filled. So people walking by were just not in the world. If that's happening to you maybe people actually in a house take preference over those without? So Neighbors > Other towns > Not in world. Not entirely sure but it makes sense in my head lol.
@JoAnne65
I'm sorry I threw open world in with sims3 experiences. Its something that tends to get done by a lot of people because usually when people bring up open world, is because its the only game to have it in the franchise. But you're right I shouldn't have mentioned those things and should have stayed on topic talking about the open worlds. So I'll admit to having chosen the wrong things to talk about there.
It wasn't necessarily open world that was the problem but other things (like the way the world was built that created routing issues). It did have problems, like how long it took to get from point a to point b. My poor firefighter never made it to those fires in time haha. But when you play a game where it takes your sims 30 minutes to use the restroom, I suppose you can't expect to do anything in a timely fashion. I do agree that a lot of people, myself included, tend to relate everything to open world when we shouldn't. I enjoyed open world, I thought it was a neat idea, but its never been something that I miss in my game. However, I wouldn't mind if the team felt it was a good idea to bring open world back to the sims5. I'll just readjust the way I play the game again.
The way I look at it (and why I keep objecting when the subject becomes 'Sims 3' too much instead of 'open world concept', is for instance bad routing. The fact I was ready to quit my homeless sim in Bridgeport game and move him somewhere else, till I finally dared to listen to simmers who adviced NRaas mods, speaks volumes to me. I have played my homeless sim in Bridgeport without one single issue since (and so happy because it's the perfect world for that). So I have big trouble, my game doesn't save anymore, I install two mods and all my problems are over. This only means one thing to me: it can be done And since I love open world, I simply expect them to do it and not rely on a fabulous modder. I happen to like it when firefighters have a chance to not get on time, because that's how things work. I have an appointment in three quarters of an hour, but if I bump into a traffic jam I won't make it in time (fingers crossed ). It means I really have to think about where in town I put the firefighter station. And it means houses at the edge of a town have a bigger chance of burning down (I haven't played that career yet so I don't know exactly how it works). One of the things I loved when my homeless sim just started, was that he had to walk his way through the open world. It gave me a real sense of how poor his life was. Teleporting to places far away and arrive there within a second is only acceptable for me when it involves a jetpack or a spaceship.
That's me though and I realize not everyone appreciates this kind of realism (like I don't care for doing the laundry and go to the grocery to get your food and clothes realism). But a much more open (and customizable) world than we have now would be great for everyone I think. They have improved it by the way, Windenburg feels so much more open. But I miss traveling (driving or cycling through a world).
I prefer the open world.
Every time I send a sim out in an open world it's like an adventure. I never know how things are going to go.
I might meet other sims along the way that I want to interact with. I might see a choice collectable. I might pass a community lot, or another sim's house and just drop in on the spur of the moment.
In a closed world, I decide to visit a place, if I feel a need to go somewhere. I am never inspired, or tempted because the rest of the world is hidden from me. Out of sight, out of mind.
Sometimes I just like going around the open world an observing it. It often gives me ideas for game play.
TS4 world feels disconnected and dead to me despite the parade of sims roaming around for no apparent reason other than to look lively. In TS3 I see all of it and I like going around observing my creations and deciding what I will do for the day.
As far as rabbit holes go, I would rather have a physical location for my sims, just for immersion, than an invisible off-screen mystery location. Closed worlds don't need them, but it wouldn't make sense to have your sims drive out of town, or teleport to got to work in an open world . The only thing I didn't like were that the bistro, bookstore, spa, and grocery store were rabbit holes. If EA had made interactive non-career versions of these lots, I doubt there would be as many complaints about rabbit holes, other than the people who don't understand that rabbit holes are equivalent to off screen TS2 and TS4 careers with extra functionality tossed in.
EA went back to their roots in TS4 because they were forced too.
Whatever blew up in their faces did not leave any time for evolving the open world, create-a-style, adding toddlers, non-young adult teens, swimming pools, family trees, terrain tools, NPCs, cemeteries, cars, and the rest of the stuff they are adding in patches because the base game was not finished.
If I am going to have small neighborhoods, I expect to see sims coming and going from their homes, or hanging out using the objects on their home lots. It wasn't until recently that I started seeing sims that actually live in the neighborhood walking around, but you still don't see them coming and going from their own homes, let alone enjoying their own properties. It was mainly a bunch of strangers parading about.
Fine, loading screens from going from neighborhood to neighborhood, but the lots within the neighborhood should not require a loading screen. I also expect to see more depth in a community lot if I have to load it. Spa Day is good, but each lot should be a running simulation in itself, not just themed objects tossed on a lot. There should be codes of behaviors in effect based on the lot. The hospital should be Sim Hospital, that runs well, or poorly based on the skills, career level, actions, and choices of your sim.
I really hope TS5 goes back to the open world and improves it.
And this time EA, make a Sims game instead of some CEO's fevered dream of simmers being multi-players, or playing in some unnatural way that you believe will make you crazy rich.
I honestly don't need like 10 or more sims at every location I go, if I do see that many sims everywhere I go, that's because it is made to be an illusion and fake, unlike in TS3 where if the sims are there it's because they want to be. I keep hearing the "ghost effect" so why don't we start calling these so called "lively" illusions of sims showing up where ever you go the "stalker effect". Seems fitting.
I honestly don't need like 10 or more sims at every location I go, if I do see that many sims everywhere I go, that's because it is made to be an illusion and fake, unlike in TS3 where if the sims are there it's because they want to be. I keep hearing the "ghost effect" so why don't we start calling these so called "lively" illusions of sims showing up where ever you go the "stalker effect". Seems fitting.
I honestly don't need like 10 or more sims at every location I go, if I do see that many sims everywhere I go, that's because it is made to be an illusion and fake, unlike in TS3 where if the sims are there it's because they want to be. I keep hearing the "ghost effect" so why don't we start calling these so called "lively" illusions of sims showing up where ever you go the "stalker effect". Seems fitting.
One thing I remember now that is pretty interesting in today's context is how the first big core mod for TS3 (idk if mentioning it by name is banned here or if that was a different site's rule...) was disabling what was deemed a stalker-esque AI that sent sims to a lot simply because you were there. But what happens in TS3 is pretty tame in comparison to TS4 where everyone from every town seems to swarm to your active lot instead of just three to five of them. The latter is a little easier to suspend your disbelief on.
I basically end up building absolutely everything I need on my lot so I never have to leave to do anything it's so annoying. The cut screens lag major. I miss the open world.
It annoys me when my sim is near their home and they walk home and literally stand on their home lot and then a loading screen comes up. Sometimes the loading screens just feel really unnecessary. I usually stop playing sims 4 for a bit and go back to sims 3 because I miss the open world. I also miss the separate worlds for each family but that's another topic.
Comments
For some reason I haven't seen that brought up before, but the way integration between separate towns in TS4 is handled is actually what almost kills it for me.
While I initially did not like the closed world, I figured it was something I could get used to. The fake backdrops, the fake cars, the way community lots are handled (it's about on par with the emptier community lots of TS3. It was handled more logically with TS3 but I do like having busy lots in TS4), fine. But the fact that sims from literally any town will just come and go in whatever town they please...I'm sorry. I shouldn't see the populace of one small German town in my Louisiana swamp just because!
I still play the game but surely they could have thought that one through better. At least before making worlds that are obviously in very separate parts of the world.
outrun / blog / tunglr
I'm sorry I threw open world in with sims3 experiences. Its something that tends to get done by a lot of people because usually when people bring up open world, is because its the only game to have it in the franchise. But you're right I shouldn't have mentioned those things and should have stayed on topic talking about the open worlds. So I'll admit to having chosen the wrong things to talk about there.
It wasn't necessarily open world that was the problem but other things (like the way the world was built that created routing issues). It did have problems, like how long it took to get from point a to point b. My poor firefighter never made it to those fires in time haha. But when you play a game where it takes your sims 30 minutes to use the restroom, I suppose you can't expect to do anything in a timely fashion. I do agree that a lot of people, myself included, tend to relate everything to open world when we shouldn't. I enjoyed open world, I thought it was a neat idea, but its never been something that I miss in my game. However, I wouldn't mind if the team felt it was a good idea to bring open world back to the sims5. I'll just readjust the way I play the game again.
The Sims 4 was a game originally created to be Online. The project failed and decided to redesign part of its structure. There was not time enough to improve every possible aspect of the game, and that's why he was released with many missing features.
I no longer care about the loading screen, this created an incredible level of stability to the game, and I'm playing with the same save (and in the same house) from when the game was released. In The Sims 3, I've lost accounts of how many times my save stopped working and I had to start all over again. The game was not well optimized, and that's a fact.
I appreciate the fact that The Sims 4 is programmed in Python. Its structure is more organized and separated compared to Sims 3, and the number of serious errors in this generation is smaller than in the previous generation.
I sometimes saved 2 or 3 times per sim-day in Sims 3. Each one had to be a "save as" in case I didn't notice some corruption that could take several sim-days to show up. Sims 3 file maintenance was a regular part of my computer maintenance.
1. Why we have the same joggers and walkers in different neighbourhoods?
I don't believe that Bella Goth from Willow Creek goes all the way to Windenburg's island for jogging. I just want to see my actual neighbours. I do not believe that it was too complex to implement.
2. Why do we have to accept default world decorations?
It feels like I'm forced to build the way they chose. Let us choose the decorations! Remember how it was in TS2?
3. Okay, unplayable-unreachable decorations are not meant to be customized. But what was so difficult about common areas, like community gardens and playgrounds and bbq areas? Why can't we edit it? If it is about performance, just limit the quantity of object we can place on those areas.
Complexity is our enemy when building The Sims, so we look for any opportunity to keep it down. (c) - @SimGuruMax (LINK)
I always took good care of my main "save-game", and I used the "save as" but even so, had multiple loading failures, crashes, and sometimes the save-game just did not work.
In The Sims 4 I never had to make any effort or worry, it still works since the first time I played on September 2, 2014.
The two (open world/lively world) are not mutually exclusive.
I always had plenty of sims in my towns and on the community lots in Sims 3. My friend, who played on a far less capable computer had the "ghost town" affect.
They aren't, but they are related. It's a shear matter of numbers. In an open world, every sim has to be in some location. This means that your entire population is spread out among your entire town. If your population is high (or dense), then your world feels lively.
In closed worlds (or even open neighborhoods), the game will always be able to select a number of residents from the population to drop into the active neighborhood. No matter your game's total population or computer capability, the game can make your neighborhood feel lively.
Again, ultimately I agree with you that they aren't mutually exclusive. I think with well-optimized programming you could have both. The thing is, we're talking about the Sims team. They've always been much more on the creative side than the engineering side. That's not a slight on them, the game probably wouldn't be as fun if it were the other way around.
That's me though and I realize not everyone appreciates this kind of realism (like I don't care for doing the laundry and go to the grocery to get your food and clothes realism). But a much more open (and customizable) world than we have now would be great for everyone I think. They have improved it by the way, Windenburg feels so much more open. But I miss traveling (driving or cycling through a world).
Every time I send a sim out in an open world it's like an adventure. I never know how things are going to go.
I might meet other sims along the way that I want to interact with. I might see a choice collectable. I might pass a community lot, or another sim's house and just drop in on the spur of the moment.
In a closed world, I decide to visit a place, if I feel a need to go somewhere. I am never inspired, or tempted because the rest of the world is hidden from me. Out of sight, out of mind.
Sometimes I just like going around the open world an observing it. It often gives me ideas for game play.
TS4 world feels disconnected and dead to me despite the parade of sims roaming around for no apparent reason other than to look lively. In TS3 I see all of it and I like going around observing my creations and deciding what I will do for the day.
As far as rabbit holes go, I would rather have a physical location for my sims, just for immersion, than an invisible off-screen mystery location. Closed worlds don't need them, but it wouldn't make sense to have your sims drive out of town, or teleport to got to work in an open world . The only thing I didn't like were that the bistro, bookstore, spa, and grocery store were rabbit holes. If EA had made interactive non-career versions of these lots, I doubt there would be as many complaints about rabbit holes, other than the people who don't understand that rabbit holes are equivalent to off screen TS2 and TS4 careers with extra functionality tossed in.
EA went back to their roots in TS4 because they were forced too.
Whatever blew up in their faces did not leave any time for evolving the open world, create-a-style, adding toddlers, non-young adult teens, swimming pools, family trees, terrain tools, NPCs, cemeteries, cars, and the rest of the stuff they are adding in patches because the base game was not finished.
If I am going to have small neighborhoods, I expect to see sims coming and going from their homes, or hanging out using the objects on their home lots. It wasn't until recently that I started seeing sims that actually live in the neighborhood walking around, but you still don't see them coming and going from their own homes, let alone enjoying their own properties. It was mainly a bunch of strangers parading about.
Fine, loading screens from going from neighborhood to neighborhood, but the lots within the neighborhood should not require a loading screen. I also expect to see more depth in a community lot if I have to load it. Spa Day is good, but each lot should be a running simulation in itself, not just themed objects tossed on a lot. There should be codes of behaviors in effect based on the lot. The hospital should be Sim Hospital, that runs well, or poorly based on the skills, career level, actions, and choices of your sim.
I really hope TS5 goes back to the open world and improves it.
And this time EA, make a Sims game instead of some CEO's fevered dream of simmers being multi-players, or playing in some unnatural way that you believe will make you crazy rich.
As wel as this:
One thing I remember now that is pretty interesting in today's context is how the first big core mod for TS3 (idk if mentioning it by name is banned here or if that was a different site's rule...) was disabling what was deemed a stalker-esque AI that sent sims to a lot simply because you were there. But what happens in TS3 is pretty tame in comparison to TS4 where everyone from every town seems to swarm to your active lot instead of just three to five of them. The latter is a little easier to suspend your disbelief on.
outrun / blog / tunglr
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