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Custom Thumbnails in Gallery Question

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    SlawfishSlawfish Posts: 431 Member
    Bad apples, you could really say that about the original thumbnails as well. Some are rubbish, most, however, serve their purpose very well.
    This isn't an issue of punishment on creative simmers or even that mods aren't accepted. Most builders and creative creators, amazing ones or maybe just average ones, don't use any mods. And a player like myself shouldn't have to go out of their way to remove CC items or other modified things from the Gallery feed, when on default, it shouldn't be there. There should always be an option for the user to decide if they want to include that stuff or not. Now there is.

    Would it really make much of a difference tagging it as something else than it including CC? Like @Manssom said, it does send slightly the wrong message as it might not include CC other than the pictures. However, a separate filter to state that would do exactly the same with the item as the current one, hide it (unless the user has checked otherwise). So how would it make a difference?

    I'm not saying that the gallery doesn't need some work, or that the current thumbnail system couldn't be looked at. But while they don't do that, I don't want this third party feature let loose on the gallery. Imagine them leaving it for months and months, and then all of a sudden 6 month worth of creations are flagged and hidden. It's good they've caught it so early when it's clearly had an impact on the Gallery in the wrong way.
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    HeavenessHeaveness Posts: 647 Member
    edited March 2016
    @Slawfish oh no your thinking and reason is not wrong and I agree with you. My beef isn't why custom thumbnails are tagged, it's what the tag represents right now. Because of the poor state that Gallery itself is in. I think we all can agree that the Gallery really needs imrpovement and get with the times. I mean I find it funny that the gallery doesn't have a share on twitter button when most of devs hang around there mostly instead of here. It's that outdated no joke lol
    Post edited by Heaveness on
    My Origin ID: Heaveness680
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    PurpleKachinaPurpleKachina Posts: 4,159 Member
    Slawfish wrote: »
    Would it really make much of a difference tagging it as something else than it including CC? Like @Manssom said, it does send slightly the wrong message as it might not include CC other than the pictures. However, a separate filter to state that would do exactly the same with the item as the current one, hide it (unless the user has checked otherwise). So how would it make a difference?

    Yes it would, because like I said it is no secret that a majority of players prefer creations without CC.
    At least that is the impression I have and I have been sharing creations ever since TS3.

    Why would people bother browsing through creations using CC when they are not interested in it to begin with?
    Therefore it would be more fair, if it so important to separate us, that they would have a custom image filter
    instead because that is something that I believe many players would feel comfortable using.
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    BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    Over on Twitter, @TheSims told us to post suggestions for improvement to the gallery image system over in the Ideas forum. I have gone ahead and created a post that you can find here.
    Visit my blog to see my creations: http://bryscreations.wordpress.com or search the gallery by my OriginID or #bryscreations
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    MarjiaMarjia Posts: 363 Member
    edited March 2016
    I've had a lot of problems with the Sims thumbnails where the tree they planted in front of the house blocks the image of something i spent days working on. The gallery is so useful, I've had people tell me they were ready to quit sims till they found my houses and have whole neighborhoods now with Marjia houses. (a great compliment). If they want to make a new rule, fine. But a retroactive rule??? not fair. I read the suggestion link and there are some good ideas already posted. I am still not going to build with any packs until this get resolved. Why should i advertise their expansion packs after they treat us so bad?
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    sawdustsawdust Posts: 1,003 Member
    Has EA come out and said publicly why they made this decision? I fail to see why a custom pose is Ok but a custom picture is not. Neither require a user to download third party files therefore it should not be classified as Custom Content.

    While I don't like many of the custom photos used in the Gallery I consider labelling them as Custom Content is completely erroneous and a slap in the face to both the creating community as well as those who use them.

    The checkbox to eliminate builds with CC has now become nonsensical.
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    BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    There are no public statements from them to my knowledge @sawdust, and I agree with you regarding the poses. This should be an all or nothing change.

    This brings up a final point that I've been wanting to make - communication. I don't understand why, once Maxis became aware of the Tray Importer tool and decided what they were going to do about it, they didn't create a post saying something to the effect of, "Hey, guys! We see all of the new images on the Gallery, and while we think they are really nifty looking, we need to let you know that because they've been generated using a third party tool, we intend to mark Gallery content using them as CC in the new patch. However, we know that you'd like to see improvements made to the existing Gallery image system in the game, and we'd welcome your suggestions here (insert thread link)."

    In my opinion, a statement like this, early on, would have gone a long way toward heading off anger and frustration and providing people with a positive outlet to provide their feedback and feel like they could be part of making a change for the better in the game. I really think that Maxis should reconsider their silence when something controversial like this comes up. Tackle it early before it has left a sour taste in the mouths of many.
    Visit my blog to see my creations: http://bryscreations.wordpress.com or search the gallery by my OriginID or #bryscreations
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    LyniaSCLyniaSC Posts: 1,021 Member
    As far as I know, yes, that means it won't be chosen as a fave. And I know most will probably disagree, but I'm okay with that. It's almost false advertising. Granted, obviously it'll have the same items shown, it always looks much nicer than when you actually use the creation in the game. Plus, it's still 3rd party content, so even if the build doesn't use cc, You the creator are. Therefore, I feel it should be marked.
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    HeavenessHeaveness Posts: 647 Member
    Yes it would be a lot better if Maxis would have at least warned their community that they will do that in the next big patch instead of it being a large "HEY! SURPRISE!" and then punch in the face without warning. If they gave at least a month warning then the community backlash would have been less dramatic and less frustrated... As @BryonyRae said "his should be an all or nothing change."

    And I can't stress this enough... Creators I have known are angry that custom thumbnails are tagged as CC but that angry stem from what the tag represents. The tag itself is a slap in the face to any creator out there who gets tagged because Gallery discourages anyone from using mods. I know some players that didn't even knew modded creations were available on the Gallery because it is always hidden by default. I don't mind the idea of custom thumbnails being tagged. What I do have an issue is how Maxis handled and executed it in a really unprofessional manner to point where it's almost hypocritical and childish. :/
    My Origin ID: Heaveness680
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    sawdustsawdust Posts: 1,003 Member
    LyniaSC wrote: »
    As far as I know, yes, that means it won't be chosen as a fave. And I know most will probably disagree, but I'm okay with that. It's almost false advertising. Granted, obviously it'll have the same items shown, it always looks much nicer than when you actually use the creation in the game. Plus, it's still 3rd party content, so even if the build doesn't use cc, You the creator are. Therefore, I feel it should be marked.

    Then why aren't those who use custom poses marked? Those creators are using custom content.
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    LyniaSCLyniaSC Posts: 1,021 Member
    sawdust wrote: »
    LyniaSC wrote: »
    As far as I know, yes, that means it won't be chosen as a fave. And I know most will probably disagree, but I'm okay with that. It's almost false advertising. Granted, obviously it'll have the same items shown, it always looks much nicer than when you actually use the creation in the game. Plus, it's still 3rd party content, so even if the build doesn't use cc, You the creator are. Therefore, I feel it should be marked.

    Then why aren't those who use custom poses marked? Those creators are using custom content.

    I can't say as to why they aren't, but as I said above, if it's cc of any kind, it should be marked. I don't agree with custom poses not being marked.
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    sawdustsawdust Posts: 1,003 Member
    LyniaSC wrote: »
    sawdust wrote: »
    LyniaSC wrote: »
    As far as I know, yes, that means it won't be chosen as a fave. And I know most will probably disagree, but I'm okay with that. It's almost false advertising. Granted, obviously it'll have the same items shown, it always looks much nicer than when you actually use the creation in the game. Plus, it's still 3rd party content, so even if the build doesn't use cc, You the creator are. Therefore, I feel it should be marked.

    Then why aren't those who use custom poses marked? Those creators are using custom content.

    I can't say as to why they aren't, but as I said above, if it's cc of any kind, it should be marked. I don't agree with custom poses not being marked.

    How do you recommend we now differentiate between the lots that do actually contain custom content as opposed to those that don't. I gave up browsing the Gallery tonight after about ten minutes. I had to turn on Custom Content to find what I wanted because it had been marked as having CC but the creator didn't say in the description area there was NoCC so I was confused, left wondering if I had indeed found the right house.


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    PiperbirdPiperbird Posts: 4,161 Member
    Why are people saying this isn't CC though? I was under the impression that CC is ANYTHING added to the game that is not EA created. I know people think of CC as hair and items and stuff like that, but being able to upload your own pictures from a third party seems like it fits pretty clearly in the CC category.

    As for why EA doesn't mark it as something different in the gallery (poses and pictures rather than items), it is not EA's job to conform to third party programs for their product. It's not their job to make sure patches don't break third party programs.

    All THAT being said, the pictures the gallery takes naturally totally blow. I see no reason EA should not allow us to either use our own screen shots, or allow us to turn a home like we can a room, or let us choose from many options. This has been a complaint for a long time, but, along with everything else, it seems EA can't be bothered. By flagging the tray as CC, it shows that they are aware we want more options. Let's see if they do anything about it.
    Visit me in the gallery! CC-free builds under origin name Piperbird!
    06-01-15_5-18nbspPM_zps8s8jcirw.png
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    leo3487leo3487 Posts: 4,062 Member
    I love this idea.

    I report all creations that use any CC that bypass the filter - that does include thumbnails. Thumbnails are considered custom content, and therefore, bypassing the filter, so I report them no matter if the sim has custom content on them or not.

    you are EA police?
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    SakuraLeonSakuraLeon Posts: 272 Member
    I had a feeling since the Tray Importer came out this would happen. And I understand why EA have done this. People could be uploading any sorts of pictures to the gallery, and this game should be accessible to everyone.

    However what I don't understand is why they are systematically going through the gallery and marking some creations as CC themselves.

    It makes sense that everything uploaded after the patch that uses the Tray Importer is now marked as CC. But they themselves going through the gallery and changing existing creations to CC does not make any sense to me at all.

    From the teeny tiny explanation from them, I assumed that it would be, now creations uploaded using the tray importer uploaded after the patch will be marked as CC.

    What actually hurts me with this, is there are so many problems with the gallery and lag. So many issues with stealing and theft. So many EPs and stuff packs that people want and have protested for. And the only thing that gets them moving is the Tray Importer. I mean it must be a hard and long job browsing through the gallery flagging items.

    Can they not spend this time imporiving the current gallery??
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    PurpleKachinaPurpleKachina Posts: 4,159 Member
    I may be wrong about this but I can't help feeling that they didn't like the fact that the Tray Importer
    generated more downloads and fav's for many creators. I mean some people have already expressed it
    on this thread when they talk about too much advantage and so on. Perhaps they felt the same at some
    level? It just doesn't make any sense to me that they haven't acted on custom poses before. The fact that
    they are also, like SakuraLeon mentioned, systematically going through the gallery now marking builds as
    CC makes me wonder even more. I agree with those who says that it should be an all or nothing change.
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    BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    I am guessing that it is actually far more difficult for them programmatically to detect the pose images as CC, since the image is actually generated within the game, not from outside of it, and there is probably nothing distinguishing it in the code within the file(s). Nonetheless, they need to figure it out, as if the rule is going to stand, it needs to be universal.

    I am strongly against retroactively flagging creations as having CC, and because it is a manual process, mistakes are being made. @kreatora pointed out in another thread that his "Troublesome Legacy Starter" was marked as having CC when it did not and did not use custom thumbnails; it was simply positioned on a diagonal, and I'm guessing that someone thought that was a custom image. Also, it looks like they are missing some lots that *do* use the custom thumbnails. If you look at the "Popular Now" tab with the Include Custom Content flag turned on, you can get a good grasp of what's going on.
    Visit my blog to see my creations: http://bryscreations.wordpress.com or search the gallery by my OriginID or #bryscreations
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    SakuraLeonSakuraLeon Posts: 272 Member
    I have seen that with Kreatora's build, its horrible that that has happened! And shows that what they are doing doesn't work!

    Again I must say, as anything using the Tray Importer uploaded after the patch automatically says CC on the creation. Would it not have made more sense for them to just leave it as anything now uploaded using the Tray Importer now will be labelled CC? As their clumsy labelling of CC creations is obviously not working and is causing such a problem in the gallery.

    @Manssom , I have been thinking since this happened as well that they are doing this because of the downloads. And in my opinion they are coming down on us so irrationally and harsh because they themselves did not come up with the Tray Importer, and feel slightly resentful about this. When they themselves have had plenty of opportunities and have done nothing =/
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    SpicyfaceSpicyface Posts: 32 Member
    Thanks @BryonyRay for your lovely words. Ok, I try again and at first, I have brought a copy of my article from the other thread over here.

    >>First ... please excuse my English and Translation with google. I'm actually in the German Sims4 forum.

    Now I have received the information that is already discussed here etc via Image-Changer. In Europe, we have now on the website L'universims.com (Tray-Importer) the possibility screenshots that we had done in the construction or game mode to draw the images that otherwise the upload of rooms, budget or land up in the gallery Maxis. Many had used the. One could detect a lot more details. Well after the update from Maxis is all represented as CC, even if that is not the case.

    Most of us work without CC. If CC is included it is indicated as 90% even under the comments. Many are upset about, it would be but for Maxis determines a possibility with the developers of this program to negotiate or to develop on this basis a program itself when to have the appropriate staff capable and Maxis able. We would suffice it when we would get from Maxis FINALLY ON FEEDBACK.

    What experiences have you in this direction can already do. We have become so frustrated that upload some even only empty lots or want to withdraw completely from the community. And that will be a significant part of Europe. Anyway Maxis would certainly remember the budget when would increasingly withdraw. That would be a shame, right?

    What do you all mean? Thank you all for this interesting discussion. <<

    As a further contribution I beg my post I had posted in the German forum to ask in here also. Perhaps it is then somewhat easier what I mean :smile:

    >>>I find it really unfortunate that Maxis has acted and we do not even telling you why. Certainly the tray Importer is a foreign tool, the Maxis in his game not like to see, but it may be that to be located just annoyed not come even in such a brilliant idea? Furthermore still, it has also shown in recent times many SimFans who had uploaded the creations of others under his pseudonym and Maxis has the effect obviously done nothing, except then to favor these stolen creations yet.

    This brings resentment and unrest in the community. And that's what I find regrettable. Admittedly, I have the feeling that Europe - in particular Germany as a little "stepchild" considered or often overlooked.

    In this respect, I have been looking sometimes in Sims 4 Forum in USA. Here there is much discussion about an image-Changer. If you like, I can like to share the link.

    It would certainly considered positive if EA would not finally let you down its "customers" in Europe / Germany even in such matters and inform and not only to make advertising for an update, add-on or the like. It might accordingly more and more the impression of greed arise, even if the perhaps not so. (I've been looking here for relevant discussions, but found nothing ..... but let me love disabuse :))

    Conclusion: I am severely visually impaired and would I want from Maxis that I get asked "end user" of Maxis a tool that allows me to change the display of pictures in the Gallery at once to recognize details well and not, as at present - the 4th or 5th image then eg. the roof or the 2nd image only get to see the base of the pool or the empty basement.
    (Note: with the tray Importer would be to change too).

    - Or -. The Maxis possibly negotiations with L'universims.com receives to find an acceptable solution for all concerned
    - And - also to inform us as consumers or SimFans about what stage of progress is (or to the effect there is no intention to change anything ...)

    To all who are thereon instrumental in my thanks that you have persevered this far with reading :)
    To all of you a Happy Easter.<<<

    Sorry if it has now become so long, but I'm a little excited.
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    PurpleKachinaPurpleKachina Posts: 4,159 Member
    SakuraLeon wrote: »
    @Manssom , I have been thinking since this happened as well that they are doing this because of the downloads. And in my opinion they are coming down on us so irrationally and harsh because they themselves did not come up with the Tray Importer, and feel slightly resentful about this. When they themselves have had plenty of opportunities and have done nothing =/
    Exactly, that is the feeling I have had as well. It may sound a bit harsh but they have themselves to blame at the same time
    when they don't speak up about the situation. I noticed that they have stickied BryonyRae's thread about how to improve
    the default gallery image system and I guess that is a good sign but I am still skeptical. And not because I want to be.
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    ebuchalaebuchala Posts: 4,945 Member
    Manssom wrote: »
    I may be wrong about this but I can't help feeling that they didn't like the fact that the Tray Importer
    generated more downloads and fav's for many creators. I mean some people have already expressed it
    on this thread when they talk about too much advantage and so on. Perhaps they felt the same at some
    level? It just doesn't make any sense to me that they haven't acted on custom poses before. The fact that
    they are also, like SakuraLeon mentioned, systematically going through the gallery now marking builds as
    CC makes me wonder even more. I agree with those who says that it should be an all or nothing change.

    I suspect it has more to do with other simmers complaints than some vendetta or weird sense of fairness on Maxis part. I would guess that the Tray Importer had a huge impact on downloads and favorites. Probably had quite a few simmers start complaining or reporting them.

    I will say that although I think they could've handled it better, I'm with @Piperbird on this one. The Gallery is part of the game and using any 3rd party content, scripts etc. is CC. Personally, I think it would be better if they would just fix the awful camera angles or let us choose our own screenshots.
    Origin ID: ebuchala
    I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
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    SlawfishSlawfish Posts: 431 Member
    Manssom wrote: »
    I may be wrong about this but I can't help feeling that they didn't like the fact that the Tray Importer
    generated more downloads and fav's for many creators. I mean some people have already expressed it
    on this thread when they talk about too much advantage and so on. Perhaps they felt the same at some
    level? It just doesn't make any sense to me that they haven't acted on custom poses before. The fact that
    they are also, like SakuraLeon mentioned, systematically going through the gallery now marking builds as
    CC makes me wonder even more. I agree with those who says that it should be an all or nothing change.

    Custom Poses did not include advertising, I do believe that is one of the main reason they weren't an issue. And with marking buildings systematically, that is just their job, the gallery has to be continuously monitored. They'll have a checklist of what is considered CC etc, if it has something that is, then it will be marked. I also believe the community flags uploads as well, maybe not always as CC but if there are issues with builds that cause e.g. crashing, they'll have to monitor those that are brought to their attention too.
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    SlawfishSlawfish Posts: 431 Member
    Manssom wrote: »
    SakuraLeon wrote: »
    @Manssom , I have been thinking since this happened as well that they are doing this because of the downloads. And in my opinion they are coming down on us so irrationally and harsh because they themselves did not come up with the Tray Importer, and feel slightly resentful about this. When they themselves have had plenty of opportunities and have done nothing =/
    Exactly, that is the feeling I have had as well. It may sound a bit harsh but they have themselves to blame at the same time
    when they don't speak up about the situation. I noticed that they have stickied BryonyRae's thread about how to improve
    the default gallery image system and I guess that is a good sign but I am still skeptical. And not because I want to be.

    I also believe something with the downloads has definitely changed for them to address this issue. But it has changed for the worse. I think it's absurd to think Maxis/EA is somehow jealous of the traffic TrayImporter/CC creates though. This is not high-school, things don't work like that in real life and big companies don't react on emotions like that. Any traffic in their eyes is good traffic!!
    I believe the downloads have gotten significantly worse, significantly quickly, that's why they had to take a step to stopping it. While you and I may know that there is a "mod" to edit gallery pictures, without actually including any CC, custom made pictures to an average person will look custom made, inside and out, and a lot of people will simply not touch that.
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    SakuraLeonSakuraLeon Posts: 272 Member
    @ebuchala its terrible if this is to do with other simmers in the community complaining. A lot of people on the gallery with few followers have got the notice they deserve because of the Tray Importer. They create the most amazing builds, but because of the poor picture quality you can never see them. They use the tray importer and you can see the detail in the rooms and sims that are created.

    That was the beauty in it I thought, that everyone's creations got the chance to shine.

    Also if this is because of complaining, I hope this will ripple onto all the hundreds of complaints I have made to them about theft and stolen creations in the gallery, and will make them also do something about that for a change =/
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