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Something I really dislike
Sucom
Posts: 1,709 Member
Something I very much dislike in Sims 4:
Here is the scenario -
Mr and Mrs Sim are sitting on the sofa watching TV. I direct Mr Sim to his computer to do some work and he follows my instruction without question, but unfortunately switches off the TV as he gets up, leaving Mrs Sim with nothing to do.
Mr Sim goes to his computer and continues the action I have given him but unfortunately Mrs Sim, who becomes bored within seconds, decides that the best thing to cure her boredom is to give Mr Sim a hug and off she goes to look for him.
Mr Sim immediately stops working and gets up from his chair at the computer to return the hug, unfortunately leaving his chair free. Mrs Sim, being an opportunist, takes her chance and jumps into his chair to play a game on the computer, now leaving Mr Sim with nothing to do and unable to complete my direction. Distracted, he decides to wander off to get a drink, read a book or watch TV or some other activity. This means that my direction to him to work on his computer has disappeared completely and my plan for Mr Sim to earn some money from his computer has failed. It seems, then, that a computer game played by Mrs Sim has taken priority over my direction for Mr Sim to earn money, which, as the player and ruler of my game, was not my intention. Who is ruling here?
From my own point of view, this is not me ruling my game. This is the game ruling me. It’s frustrating and annoying when I’m trying to direct my game and it doesn’t go to plan. These sims are so intent on chatting and hugging, over and above anything else, that I am continually forced to become an observer of my game rather than the director of my game.
I can see, from a developer’s perspective, how good these multi tasking actions are from the sims. However, from a player’s perspective, they’re not good at all, because the player is not in charge of their own game. I’m not in charge of my game; my game is in charge of me, which feels to me like I’m simply watching a game take place rather than creating a game for myself.
Maybe it’s just me that this happens to; I don’t know, but one thing I cannot help but notice is how important chatting is in the game. I can’t think of anything less exciting than watch sims chat throughout my game. It’s like being with someone who is always on the phone. It leaves you out of the action; on the sidelines. And worse still, the player can’t even take control of the chat which tends to go any which way depending on the current mood of each sim.
Whatever you do, and wherever you go in Sims 4, the sims are grouping up and chatting all over the place. Retail shops are the worst of all, where sims huddle into a large group and chat and joke about anything besides what they might buy. I would much prefer to direct a sim and see them get on with that direction than watch them being distracted, leaving me the player with a long list of failed attempts to direct my game.
Sorry this is such a long post - I had to get that off my chest. It’s been sitting there weighing me down for far too long.
Here is the scenario -
Mr and Mrs Sim are sitting on the sofa watching TV. I direct Mr Sim to his computer to do some work and he follows my instruction without question, but unfortunately switches off the TV as he gets up, leaving Mrs Sim with nothing to do.
Mr Sim goes to his computer and continues the action I have given him but unfortunately Mrs Sim, who becomes bored within seconds, decides that the best thing to cure her boredom is to give Mr Sim a hug and off she goes to look for him.
Mr Sim immediately stops working and gets up from his chair at the computer to return the hug, unfortunately leaving his chair free. Mrs Sim, being an opportunist, takes her chance and jumps into his chair to play a game on the computer, now leaving Mr Sim with nothing to do and unable to complete my direction. Distracted, he decides to wander off to get a drink, read a book or watch TV or some other activity. This means that my direction to him to work on his computer has disappeared completely and my plan for Mr Sim to earn some money from his computer has failed. It seems, then, that a computer game played by Mrs Sim has taken priority over my direction for Mr Sim to earn money, which, as the player and ruler of my game, was not my intention. Who is ruling here?
From my own point of view, this is not me ruling my game. This is the game ruling me. It’s frustrating and annoying when I’m trying to direct my game and it doesn’t go to plan. These sims are so intent on chatting and hugging, over and above anything else, that I am continually forced to become an observer of my game rather than the director of my game.
I can see, from a developer’s perspective, how good these multi tasking actions are from the sims. However, from a player’s perspective, they’re not good at all, because the player is not in charge of their own game. I’m not in charge of my game; my game is in charge of me, which feels to me like I’m simply watching a game take place rather than creating a game for myself.
Maybe it’s just me that this happens to; I don’t know, but one thing I cannot help but notice is how important chatting is in the game. I can’t think of anything less exciting than watch sims chat throughout my game. It’s like being with someone who is always on the phone. It leaves you out of the action; on the sidelines. And worse still, the player can’t even take control of the chat which tends to go any which way depending on the current mood of each sim.
Whatever you do, and wherever you go in Sims 4, the sims are grouping up and chatting all over the place. Retail shops are the worst of all, where sims huddle into a large group and chat and joke about anything besides what they might buy. I would much prefer to direct a sim and see them get on with that direction than watch them being distracted, leaving me the player with a long list of failed attempts to direct my game.
Sorry this is such a long post - I had to get that off my chest. It’s been sitting there weighing me down for far too long.
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Comments
I really miss Sims 2. *sigh*
We need a new more mature Sims game targeted at adult simmers instead.
The TS4 motto is 'they are smarter than you think' displayed on ads..lol..not hardly.
But then I would have an empty city...
I agree, and this is absolutely horrible, considering both are the claimed "staple" features of The Sims 4, it has scrapped virtually all the staple features of TS3, and it hasn't done TS2 staple features enough justice. If it can't even do these new features right, then what in the world is the point of The Sims 4 other than a whole new generation of Sims to try and charge us more for what we have already gotten four times before?
The emotion system is not an effective system at all. It leaves fan split between ones who just want Sims that can realistically feel emotion like a normal human being (aka how the system should simply work), and others who want to take a more hands-on approach, and directly control the emotions of their Sims at every point within the game.
Multitasking leads to longer interactions, which is annoying, considering how the game suffers from the worst simulation lag in any Sims game. The game often processes time as loading screens are loading, leading to lost gameplay time. It sometimes even continues simulation, despite being paused, as it tries to catch itself up. We've never had such problems before. Additionally, multitasking cancels out intended interactions, or is just not effective enough as it should be, as the OP demonstrated in their example.
To add my own experiences on this matter, I took my Sims out dining, and they autonomously got into a group chat with Sims on the other side of the restaurant, causing them to ditch their table and waste hours on end with these Sims. When their food finally came, four hours later (how ridiculous), it took so much effort for them to go back to their table and just eat. Instead though, they grabbed their food, and held it as they talked. How frustrating.
Shutting off AI still does not solve this problem, as you have NPC Sims with their own AI, which are influencing our Sims to do these annoying things. And, as I have shown in my example, there are SO many factors which are causing this big frustration.
Meals are the absolute worst though. I form a group of said 7 sims and direct them to grab a meal from the table. They do, and all of them sit at the table... except one, who randomly decides to wander off to a couch that's not even nearby. What does the rest of the family do? Obviously, half of them suddenly gets the urge to multitask and they get up from the table and go over to that plum couch to chat with the sim who left. So much for a nice family dinner.
Yep, or eat wail talking to the toilet.. Over the last week or so my sims started running off to eat sitting on their beds.. Hay that's what the table is for... it's not an AI it's an LOI... (lack of intelligence).. Or how about AS for (artificial stupidity)..
I can highly recommend the following thread it gave me hours of laughs as I followed The OP testing out his designated evil sim in a variety of situations to see if this supposedly better system emotional system actually works
AN OBNOXIOUS PSYCHOSAUSAGE TESTS THE BOUNDARIES OF THE SIMS 4 EMOTIONS by EmberDahl
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/817854/an-obnoxious-psychosausage-tests-the-boundaries-of-the-sims-4-emotions/p1
Sims 4 drove me to sims 3.
True story.
@kremesch73 Sims 4 made me start saving money a few months ago for the sole purpose of building myself a new, Sims 3 dedicated PC lmao
Giggling aside, I agree it's a problem of varying degrees and chatting is a bit of a deeper problem for me. Deep meaning I'm not sure there's a simple solution to it, as it's kind of a core part of how stuff is put together. You could tweak things so that sims chat less often, but that doesn't really change the fundamental problem of sims tending to interrupt each other, or stalling while they wait for someone to walk halfway across the lot, only to cancel out as the sim gets within a few meters.
As for the game ruling you, for me, it's a balance. I think I would get bored too easily if the game never surprised me. That's why it's hard for me to play with autonomy off. But the surprises are not always pleasant and it can be frustrating when your decisions get overridden by the action of a sim you're not controlling.
I've come up with vague theoretical stuff before about what can maybe be done to improve things, but I don't think it's one of those kind of things that can be addressed easily, unfortunately. I think the best we're gonna see in TS4 is little tweaks and additions that allow the systems to flow together more smoothly. At this time, I'm of the opinion that the main problem centers around sims simply not having enough to do that occupies them for extended periods of time. Time perhaps moves a tad too quickly, needs decay a tad too quickly, which means actions need to be short, and therefore you end up with a situation where sims have the attention span of... well... ok, some of us don't have the greatest attention span these days. But shhhhh.
In 90% of the cases multi-tasking works fine and I am just glad it's in the game.
Just one question: If you want to be rather in the director-role you could also turn off their autonomy. Have you tried it already? I mean, I had a similar issue playing TS3 that my sims often didn't do what I wanted them to do when they were allowed to move freely.
You are welcome I was particularly down one evening when I came across that thread and by the time I finished reading my bad mood had vanished it was so funny but like you say sad at the same time because I suppose the idea was good but obviously the theory is better than the game application in practice. I have tried really hard to like 4 and this week I have loaded it more times than I have in years to try it out but immediately come across the problems already mentioned in this thread several times over so it won't be long before I am ignoring the series for months again. Is anyone on these thread using the MC mod? and if so wondering if they would help with these sorts of problems much in the same way Nrass mods so with series 3?
Also I agree re the best bet is to spend more money on the better tech to play 3 because I doubt if there is a 5 it will be anywhere as good as the 3 series as although it has it's issues playing on a decent system and using a few mods can help that immensely.
@Crueltivity
Agreed I started with 3 and apart from the fact I have had to spend ££££ on having a PC built and was forced to use mods (that I now love) I am happy that I should be able to play for a long time to come if no better series comes out in future. Same with 2 I only started playing last year and I love it in fact if they had taken the 2 system and placed it in an open world personally I think that would have been an awesome 4 series.
@kremesch73
loved your comment
I find the balance important too. I feel like it's something previous games never struggled with, though, as opposed to Sims 4 where the lack of it is becoming very painful. I currently play with autonomy off because I'm managing a household of 7 and the issues discussed here make it impossible to allow them all to roam free, but I have a distinct memory of older games providing enough fun little surprises even with this feature turned off, it's like they were designed to do that. That's why it's especially bothersome for me now, as I'm torn between leaving my sims to completely ignore my wishes as if they're not just fake, pixel people or having them stand there lifelessly, waiting for an order they will probably drop anyway. Where is my balance? You made me realize how much, unknowingly, i valued it about sims 3 and 2!
I think sims' AI is flawed to the point of free will as an option being virtually meaningless. I've tried both on/off and I've ran into the same issues. My sims cancel orders when autonomy is off, whether they get interrupted by someone (which, with free will off, should never happen) or whether they randomly decide to do something on their own. There is no balance and there is no solution. I've tried to learn to only give a sim one order at a time but more often than not I find that 6 hours later they stand still in the spot I've left them having done nothing.
Sad to hear it's too big of an issue to get fixed permanently and sims will probably always strive to multitask when it's not necessary or wanted, and they will seek social interaction autonomously. This seems to be the concept for the new generation that we have no choice but to accept. I like it when my sims autonomously hug their loved ones and go chat to them instead of using computer or TV all day, i like it that they're able to do that without having to cancel eating or listening to music but I believe this could have been done better, in a way that doesn't completely disarray my plans and ruin my enjoyment of the game.
@SPARKY1922 - I'm using MCCC and i find it to be a literal game changer
I'd say go for it! I'm sure you'll be amazed at how much better the game can get with MCC (I sound like an infomercial lol)
Thanks for that info definitely interesting. I was trying to wait a little while until I had got used to the game itself to use mods but all the things aforementioned in this thread are driving me nuts from the get go. If I list a few things that are really bothering me could you tell me if MC would cover those issues please.
First when you say turning off attraction to objects sounds like that means sims wont be running all over the place doing pointless actions constantly even when I tell them to do something else?
I have tried to find a mod that makes sims sit down when eating and stop jumping all over the place grabbing their food in and out of their inventories constantly?
sit down to watch TV and play online games
I have been afraid of making long term friends or play a legacy because of relationship culling or I heard the game just removes Sims at random regardless of their relationships with our playable sims.
I never send my kids to school I prefer to skill them up by enjoyable activities and being out and about but in 3 we could delete the school or I used mods to home school now I realize teens in 4 cannot be taken away and I can cheat up some of the bars such as responsibility but kids can be taken away with an F grade and last week I tested this out by not sending my kid to school who was starting with a C grade but made her complete school style activities and skill up the hours she should have been at school and then finish by her doing her homework every night as usual. 5 days later her grades were abysmal despite her skills going up and up but I stopped playing her because I was afraid I would lose her to a very unfair F really-) can MC help me out with this? I have seen another mod for this but I am not certain it is patched to 1.32 so have not used it but would defo like to get a resolution to this problem.
to be able to see different sims out and about instead of the same ones everywhere my sims go..
those issues are all I can remember now except I have read players find the MC difficult to use which has also put me off a little
In "The Sims" that was one tip to build wealth faster and I don't think that has basically changed.
Yes, as I've said MCCC is a very extensive tool and i admit it's a little bit difficult to get a hang of at the beginning but finding your way around it only takes a day or two. What i did was, after installing it, I sat down with a nice cup of coffee and just looked through every single tab and every single option.. Took an hour or so but allowed me to discover all there is to the mod and now I'm sure I didn't miss anything useful, you can toggle things on and off as you go. I also recommend watching a youtube tutorial first (there's plenty of them!) Do not let the abundance of options discourage you, every single one comes with a clear description.
As for your issues, basically all of what you described can be easily fixed with MCC.
Turning attraction to objects will indeed make your sims stop wanting to do random things on their own, as the most common distractions for them are watching tv or using computer/bar/ etc. All of those objects are included in MCCC and you can toggle their high attractiveness off with one click! A life saver
Relationship culling and decay can also be turned off. It just won't happen in your game anymore which is amazing. You can even specifically set the rate at which you want the relationships to decay, so you can choose 0 (they don't decay at all) or like, 200 for example (they decay faster)
There is also an option to mix up sims who appear on public lots so you meet new ones every time.
And that's only a little bit, there's so much more you'll probably make use of!
The only issue i'm not sure about is the children vs school problem, from what i gather you would like to ensure your child won't get taken away because of poor performance? There's no option to "turn off" school, but there may be others not directly related to the problem that could help. When i play later today i will take a look, but for now i would suggest using the school performance improvement cheat once in a few sim days so the grades don't drop to an F even if the child skips school.
If you install the mod and can't find specific categories, etc. easily you can PM me and i'll help