"The Sims 4 is the most intelligent, relatable and personal life simulation ever. For the first time, player choice shapes not just a single moment, but the entire life journey of the Sims."
personalities is an essential component of any life simulation without it, it isn't possible to simulate life because the simulations aren't functioning according to living principles.
That might be your definition of a life-sim game, however, no, I don't agree with that. However, I like this definition:
"Life simulation (or artificial life games) is a subgenre of simulation video games in which the player lives or controls one or more virtual lifeforms. A life simulation game can revolve around "individuals and relationships, or it could be a simulation of an ecosystem".
I think you'll find that newer version means completely newer version... Like with windows, Windows 8 bears little resemblance to windows 3.1.
Both engines are related to each other (no idea to which extent). TS4, however, was build from scratch. The engine was fully optimized to fulfil its purpose from the ground.
No it wasn't, TS4 was built upon the ruins of TS Olympus, which is the primary reason for the loss of personality and life in the Sims.
Actually I have heard TS4 call TS 0.5, because it doesn't even have as much as TS1 did.
Never heard of that. Even if it was true what you are saying (which is not) it's not about the numbers game. Only because a game provides more features (by numbers) it does not mean that it's actually better. Some feature need more resources than others (especially in different engines).
But what you're describing aren't emotions, emotions are supposed to trigger behavioural patterns that vary in expression dependent on personality traits.
You got this wrong --> Emotions =/= traits. Every emotional state triggers its own autonomous actions and provides therefore its own characteristics. Emotions are not just moodlets. Moodlets have an effect on emotions, though.
If I label a car as a sausage, it doesn't make it one.
Exactly. You are trying to label emotions as moodlets. Both are different.
No, Maxis are trying to label moodlets as emotions.
Emotions have a massive bearing in The Sims 1 and 2, if your Sims mood was low in TS1 they could be heard periodically crying, similarly in The Sims 2 if they have too many bad memories (depending on what they are and what they're about) the Sims could suddenly cry, or become angry or just sigh and be depressed.
About as much as your constantly touted 'vast majority' sadly, former Maxis employees don't like putting their insider knowledge of what EA gets up to on the net because of their still binding NDA's.
The focus and primary orientation of the Sims was is and always has been to simulate life, and Sims need personalities to do that.
Personalities aren't a criterium for a game being labeled as a life sim. Tell me, when do characters have personalities? Who has the authority to claim: Okay, this AI has personality, therefore the game is a life-sim. HOLD ON guys, this AI lacks personality because 'random reason'. It does not make any sense.
Again I'm not sure you even understand what a personality is, I don't mean that they have to have pre-structure behaviours chosen by the player, I mean that the personality traits, points, ETC have to have a clear and definite impact in the behaviour of our sims in every aspect of their day to day lives.
In TS2 a shy Sim would shy away from others, run from fights in the room, dance very reservedly and would be less expressive in their conversations; You don't need an emotion billboard to tell you what they are feeling, they express their feelings instead.
Different levels of personality points would produce different personalities, which would then express themselves through a Sims lifetime aspiration, an outgoing knowledge sim would want to try out different occult states, a mean knowledge sim would want to use various objects to harm or annoy others, a serious knowledge sim would prefer to avoid occult lifestates, unless their interest dictated otherwise.
Sadly that's from a conversation I had with one of the EX-maxis employees some time ago (we were originally discussing SC2013 and the limits and problems imposed by EA, when it was mentioned that it wasn't the first time EA had imposed limitation in something)...
That's somewhat vague and unverifiable It doesn't really matter though, it wasn't in the game and that was the point. Still prefer 2 over 4 though, in spite of limitations I do care about personally. The sims hold my attention and so does the fact the game is a bit harder to play, which will keep you busy.
I'm sorry it's vague and unverifiable, I wish it wasn't, the EX-employee in question requested that I never mention ANY personal details about them so they don't get into trouble.
But that's the point, you can't cut the life out of a life simulation and still call it a life simulator.
That was the whole point of the Sims, you 'don't' have total control over them, you are their creator and manager, not their controller... It's why it is called THE >>SIMS<< as in SIMulation.
I don't understand. TS1 did only have 2 life-stages, no real progression at all and it is still considered a life simulation. TS4 is labeled everywhere as a life simulation game (on every (!) gaming site), but let's check wikipedia:
"The Sims 4 is a life simulation video game developed by Maxis and The Sims Studio and published by Electronic Arts."
It does not matter if the game doesn't simulate life for you. Fact is, it does simulate life, period (in many aspects much better than previous iterations such as, what is very importing for us as human beings, socalizing).
BTW: Animal Crossing new leaf (focus on socializing, only 2 'abstracat' life stages --> ya and adult):
"Animal Crossing: New Leaf is a life simulation video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo 3DS console."
It doesn't simulate life, or at least not anything recognisable as life.
The Sims 1 is considered a life simulation because it simulated the lives of the Sims, personalities is an essential component of any life simulation without it, it isn't possible to simulate life because the simulations aren't functioning according to living principles.
The Sims in TS4 have no personalities and so can't simulate life.
Each of the Sims games has used a totally new engine, built from scratch, that's no excuse...
Nope, Sims 3 uses a Sims 2.5 engine -->
"The Sims 2 introduced a 3D engine with visual and technical advances over its predecessor while its sequel, The Sims 3 brought in a newer version of the engine that incorporated further visual enhancements with a fully fledged texture streaming solution to accommodate the open world."
Again though, it's taking the Sims out of The Sims and destroying the fundamental point to the game.
The only foundation I know was introduced with TS1 (which makes sense, since every game series builds a foundation with their first game). And since people keep on calling TS4 TS1.5 I guess there is nothing wrong with it.
Actually I have heard TS4 call TS 0.5, because it doesn't even have as much as TS1 did.
Moodlets don't have an emotional state and nor do the Sims in the Sims 4[...].
Exactly, that's why emotions are not just moodlets. Emotions trigger autonomous actions (like traits), they influence how (!) a sim will perform this particular action + whether the action is successfull or not etc.
But what you're describing aren't emotions, emotions are supposed to trigger behavioural patterns that vary in expression dependent on personality traits.
What you're describing is just moodlets with the name of emotions but nothing else.
If I label a car as a sausage, it doesn't make it one.
It was because EA forced them to keep it out, so they'd have something extra to put into the Sims 3, otherwise it would've been in the Sims 2 as well.
Where is the proof?
About as much as your constantly touted 'vast majority' sadly, former Maxis employees don't like putting their insider knowledge of what EA gets up to on the net because of their still binding NDA's.
It's not a question of adding thing, it's a question of not removing them in the first place[...]
No, the task is to deliver the best possible experience for the player with the resources you have under certain given parameters such as engine, focus of the game and orientation.
All of which they've failed at.
The focus and primary orientation of the Sims was is and always has been to simulate life, and Sims need personalities to do that.
Yes, I agree with that. It's why I find myself ignoring their 'emotions' most of the time, I simply don't feel them. They're just a little jingle that distracts me for a second and then I continue playing. This is very different from Sims 2 and 3 for me. In no time the emotion will be replaced by another one anyway.
Yeah I know, the problem is the 'emotions' don't mean anything... I've had furious sims want to keep hugging people, what's the point of emotions if they mean nothing?
That's true, but if you don't manipulate emotions, there's not much else to do in the game. Which most likely explains why a lot of people think the game is boring and pointless.
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
I've seen all of these at least ten times. Once, I was a hater myself, you know?
No it doesn't, by giving the players 'more control' they've damaged the simulation aspect of it.
Depends. The game still provides a life simulation context (remember TS1? No?). The simulation happens player driven. And yet there are certain tasks/goals/conditions the player has to meet to progress in the game (--> by doing that the player 'simulates' life).
TS4 has always been rather a sandbox (!) life simulation than a 'pure' simulation. Does not change the fact that your surrounding (the so called set dressing for the life-sim) is being simulated, though --> npc sims have jobs, obligations, they behave like you would expect as soon as they enter a community lot.
The best thing is: You don't HAVE to manipulate everything. The game just provides the tools, it's your choice if you use them in the end.
And how exactly could someone without any personality have a relationship?
A personality is not necessarily needed to get into a relationship with somebody but that's beside the point: In TS4 the 'personality' is determined through the actions of a sim (traits in combination with emotions will most likely trigger autonomous behaviors). Example: If a sim is hot-headed chances are high(er) that he will get angry fast(er) during a conversation, means: If you don't control him the game will trigger mean interactions. The consequence: Sims will have a bad relationship with this particular sim. In my understanding you can call that an attitude --> personality.
No it wasn't, TS4 was built upon the ruins of TS Olympus, which is the primary reason for the loss of personality and life in the Sims.
They reused assets, yes, but you can't rework an engine that was programmed to function as an MMO anda dapt it for a game like TS4. Please, just look how the game works (semi-open neighborhoods, multi-tasking etc.) - there is no way this could have ever become an MMO. They had to start from scratch.
Online games don't need complex NPCs.
Maybe they ran out of time. Maybe they had plans to improve the AI (by giving them 'personality'). We will never know.
Emotions have a massive bearing in The Sims 1 and 2, if your Sims mood was low in TS1 they could be heard periodically crying, similarly in The Sims 2 if they have too many bad memories (depending on what they are and what they're about) the Sims could suddenly cry, or become angry or just sigh and be depressed.
Ehh, wow, impressive. I hope you are aware of the fact that such a functionality can be achieved by a simple if x < than y then z - code?!
x = present value of the so called 'emotion' (actually i forgot the name what TS2 used for its resource to determine how your sim feels).
y = limit of x (critical value)
z = trigger a certain action
I know, it is how TS1-3 works, but it's very primitive coding, to be honest (just a question of conditions). Of yourse, you can add an additional line of code to check if a certain sim has a special trait. If so you can make the game trigger a different animation, yadayadayada. But that's it. It has nothing to do with that how emotions work in TS4. They are more flexible and fulfil several purposes at once.
Again I'm not sure you even understand what a personality is, I don't mean that they have to have pre-structure behaviours chosen by the player, I mean that the personality traits, points, ETC have to have a clear and definite impact in the behaviour of our sims in every aspect of their day to day lives.
I understand. But traits do have (!) an impact on the behavior of a sim. They can trigger a certain emotional state (like in my example) or an autonomous action.
Of course it's not as fleshed out as it was in TS2 but, IMO, this is not a requirement for a life-sim.
"[...] and everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, then it's not the end."
That's true, but if you don't manipulate emotions, there's not much else to do in the game. Which most likely explains why a lot of people think the game is boring and pointless.
Not true! You can tend the garden and invite your friends over. Your imagination is the limit!!!
"[...] and everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, then it's not the end."
Yeah, but once you do those few things that are available, it is just not that interesting any more. Been there, done that, not really interested in doing it again.
You know I don't mind at all other people sharing how they play and why the game works for them. With enough detail, that kind of sharing could give someone else some ideas on how they might try playing the game. Goodness knows some of us who bought it aren't currently getting our money's worth out of this game.
But to keep insisting that other players' opinions are wrong just because you've found a way to play that you enjoy is just not productive.
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
No it doesn't, by giving the players 'more control' they've damaged the simulation aspect of it.
Depends. The game still provides a life simulation context (remember TS1? No?). The simulation happens player driven. And yet there are certain tasks/goals/conditions the player has to meet to progress in the game (--> by doing that the player 'simulates' life).
TS4 has always been rather a sandbox (!) life simulation than a 'pure' simulation. Does not change the fact that your surrounding (the so called set dressing for the life-sim) is being simulated, though --> npc sims have jobs, obligations, they behave like you would expect as soon as they enter a community lot.
But the simulation is supposed to occur independently of a players interaction... The Sims should be able to play themselves without any interference from the player.
And how exactly could someone without any personality have a relationship?
A personality is not necessarily needed to get into a relationship with somebody but that's beside the point: In TS4 the 'personality' is determined through the actions of a sim (traits in combination with emotions will most likely trigger autonomous behaviors). Example: If a sim is hot-headed chances are high(er) that he will get angry fast(er) during a conversation, means: If you don't control him the game will trigger mean interactions. The consequence: Sims will have a bad relationship with this particular sim. In my understanding you can call that an attitude --> personality.
But the angry emotion has no impact, angry sims will have calm conversations with other sims and even hug them... The emotion means nothing.
No it wasn't, TS4 was built upon the ruins of TS Olympus, which is the primary reason for the loss of personality and life in the Sims.
They reused assets, yes, but you can't rework an engine that was programmed to function as an MMO anda dapt it for a game like TS4. Please, just look how the game works (semi-open neighborhoods, multi-tasking etc.) - there is no way this could have ever become an MMO. They had to start from scratch.
Actually you can rework an engine that was programmed to function as an MMO, check out Wurm Unlimited, it was an MMO but the exact same engine has simply been made into an offline version of the exact same game. The online version is called (rather creatively) Wurm Online.
Emotions have a massive bearing in The Sims 1 and 2, if your Sims mood was low in TS1 they could be heard periodically crying, similarly in The Sims 2 if they have too many bad memories (depending on what they are and what they're about) the Sims could suddenly cry, or become angry or just sigh and be depressed.
Ehh, wow, impressive. I hope you are aware of the fact that such a functionality can be achieved by a simple if x < than y then z - code?!
x = present value of the so called 'emotion' (actually i forgot the name what TS2 used for its resource to determine how your sim feels).
y = limit of x (critical value)
z = trigger a certain action
I know, it is how TS1-3 works, but it's very primitive coding, to be honest (just a question of conditions). Of yourse, you can add an additional line of code to check if a certain sim has a special trait. If so you can make the game trigger a different animation, yadayadayada. But that's it. It has nothing to do with that how emotions work in TS4. They are more flexible and fulfil several purposes at once.
Yes that's how most games emotion systems are coded, but TS1 & 2 (although sadly not 3) have randomisers in them, which cause unexpected behaviour, couple that with unrequited relationships and personality points and interests affecting those variables as well and it's a pretty complex mix.
The only thing emotions do in TS4 is change the billboards trigger periodic animations, unlock certain interactions and generate wants, they have no bearing on the actual behaviour or social attitudes of the sims.
Again I'm not sure you even understand what a personality is, I don't mean that they have to have pre-structure behaviours chosen by the player, I mean that the personality traits, points, ETC have to have a clear and definite impact in the behaviour of our sims in every aspect of their day to day lives.
I understand. But traits do have (!) an impact on the behavior of a sim. They can trigger a certain emotional state (like in my example) or an autonomous action.
Of course it's not as fleshed out as it was in TS2 but, IMO, this is not a requirement for a life-sim.
But the traits impact is minimal at best, it's not even as fleshed out as the traits in TS3 or the personality points of 1 & 2.
But that's the point, you can't cut the life out of a life simulation and still call it a life simulator.
That was the whole point of the Sims, you 'don't' have total control over them, you are their creator and manager, not their controller... It's why it is called THE >>SIMS<< as in SIMulation.
I don't understand. TS1 did only have 2 life-stages, no real progression at all and it is still considered a life simulation. TS4 is labeled everywhere as a life simulation game (on every (!) gaming site), but let's check wikipedia:
"The Sims 4 is a life simulation video game developed by Maxis and The Sims Studio and published by Electronic Arts."
It does not matter if the game doesn't simulate life for you. Fact is, it does simulate life, period (in many aspects much better than previous iterations such as, what is very importing for us as human beings, socalizing).
BTW: Animal Crossing new leaf (focus on socializing, only 2 'abstracat' life stages --> ya and adult):
"Animal Crossing: New Leaf is a life simulation video game developed and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo 3DS console."
Each of the Sims games has used a totally new engine, built from scratch, that's no excuse...
Nope, Sims 3 uses a Sims 2.5 engine -->
"The Sims 2 introduced a 3D engine with visual and technical advances over its predecessor while its sequel, The Sims 3 brought in a newer version of the engine that incorporated further visual enhancements with a fully fledged texture streaming solution to accommodate the open world."
Again though, it's taking the Sims out of The Sims and destroying the fundamental point to the game.
The only foundation I know was introduced with TS1 (which makes sense, since every game series builds a foundation with their first game). And since people keep on calling TS4 TS1.5 I guess there is nothing wrong with it.
Moodlets don't have an emotional state and nor do the Sims in the Sims 4[...].
Exactly, that's why emotions are not just moodlets. Emotions trigger autonomous actions (like traits), they influence how (!) a sim will perform this particular action + whether the action is successfull or not etc.
It was because EA forced them to keep it out, so they'd have something extra to put into the Sims 3, otherwise it would've been in the Sims 2 as well.
Where is the proof?
It's not a question of adding thing, it's a question of not removing them in the first place[...]
No, the task is to deliver the best possible experience for the player with the resources you have under certain given parameters such as engine, focus of the game and orientation.
I dont think sourcing wikipedia is a bright idea. Wikipedia can be easily manupilated and edited by anyone.
Edited to add: I play animal crossing new leaf. And I guess it can be similar to the sims 4 in account I cant play for long periods of time without being bored lol (not to be mean just how much it catches my attention the same can be said about the harvest moon franchise) however ive played (AC) since gamecube and I know what to expect from games as such and yes they all can be put into the category of life simulation (I agree with you on that), however its obvious what is achievable in thus simulation. Let me explain.
When I play animal crossing (new leaf and the original) I know what to expect. And theyve pretty much kept it in the same box. You know that new leaf came from the original from the gamecube because it still features the basics. It just expands in future games but I know to expect pretty much the same game play from each one. You are still paying off a house to tom nook (in new leaf you have a choice you dont have to go into his place of business thus never have to upgrade your house and he doesnt own the store anymore so,you dont need to sell him anything anymore to make money). My point is you know what tyoe of game youre playing and what you can do and its pretty much stuck to the basics with adding different ideas in future games.
Harvest moon (I dont know if you are familiar with it) came out originally on super Nintendo and last I played was on the Wii. (Ah snes takes me back lol) but this is also a life simulation, I prefer this over AC because you can have a family and get married. However, you know that this game is about farming and your character moving into a family farm thats rundown (lol). Its pretty much the same basis in every game with a twist but in the end its all the same (they did add the option to choose to be male or female which is nice lol)
Now the sims. From 1 on up to 3 you can see how much its built but kept with the basics. There are still things that you can get from the original. You know youre playing a game from the sims franchise. Now with 4 a lot of the original concepts that made the sims well the sims has been stripped out and thats where it differs when comparing it to AC. Atleast nintendo kepts features that it knew its fans loved when creating future iterations of AC. But they also added on. Which to be honest something I was expecting from 4 before buying and playing for the first time. Because thats just what theyd done over the years. All I imagined was the perfect mix of 2 and 3 the open world with a lot of what they brought in ts2. And if you look closely in the forums theres a lot of people who expected similar ideas. But my point is the sims has branched off of what made it the game a lot of us loved from 1 on up to 3 comparably to AC. Thats why we criticize it. Not only have we spent hard earned money on it but weve had so much better from just the base game alone in past games!
Post edited by Noree_Doree on
"Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
What does the trait system have to do with open world and CASt in your opinion? And though it's true the open space in the worlds is far from crowded, the lots are with a good processor. The open worlds can have serious routing problems (3 out of over 20 do), but that's a matter of taking your time designing them, it's not necessary. Amateurs (mods) found a system to fix that where EA should have taken care of that.
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
What does the trait system have to do with open world and CASt in your opinion? And though it's true the open space in the worlds is far from crowded, the lots are with a good processor. The open worlds can have serious routing problems (3 out of over 20 do), but that's a matter of taking your time designing them, it's not necessary. Amateurs (mods) found a system to fix that where EA should have taken care of that.
Directly speaking the traits don't have anything to do with open world or CASt, however a computer only has so much processing power to give, if you have an open world and CASt it means taking a hit somewhere else.
There are a lot of minor routing problems as well as problems in the games own routing system which just exacerbates them.
and yes EA should've taken care of it, which brings me back to the point of Maxis not being good enough to code something like that.
Sorry all the base games were complete to me.(ts3/ts2) expansions and stuff packs were ADD ONS.
Guess you're right ts4 is and will always be unfinished.
Please don't twist my words. They are still adding content via expansion packs, stuff packs, game packs and patches, and as such it is by definition unfinished.
The Sims 4 base game had an incredible amount of new, unique gameplay experiences. Yes, there were things missing, but such was the case with 3, 2 and 1 as well... that's why they're called "base" games after all, because it's a foundation to build off of.
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
What does the trait system have to do with open world and CASt in your opinion? And though it's true the open space in the worlds is far from crowded, the lots are with a good processor. The open worlds can have serious routing problems (3 out of over 20 do), but that's a matter of taking your time designing them, it's not necessary. Amateurs (mods) found a system to fix that where EA should have taken care of that.
Directly speaking the traits don't have anything to do with open world or CASt, however a computer only has so much processing power to give, if you have an open world and CASt it means taking a hit somewhere else.
There are a lot of minor routing problems as well as problems in the games own routing system which just exacerbates them.
and yes EA should've taken care of it, which brings me back to the point of Maxis not being good enough to code something like that.
I truely wonder if the personality system was heavier than the traits? To me it seems that was a design choice, just them trying to handle sims personalities differently. A poor choice for some but I for one am fine with it. It's like universal aging and SP or not really. Some love that (me), others don't because they prefer the ability to play 100% rotational safely. But I can't imagine those decisions are based on having to make sacrifices and choices because the game has open world and CASt.
I know open world will have some issues that a game with closed lots and neighborhoods won't have. For me the gain outweights the price big time though; the alternative has a much higher price for me to pay. The time not continuing in Sims 2 when they leave their home lot for instance I really don't like. And the fact that half of the time I can't control my off screen sims in Sims 4 prevents me from playing households with more than one sim. So yes, developing a game comes with choices, but what is a sacrifice for one is a favour for the other.
But anyway, I guess this is one of those "let's agree to disagree" situations
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
What does the trait system have to do with open world and CASt in your opinion? And though it's true the open space in the worlds is far from crowded, the lots are with a good processor. The open worlds can have serious routing problems (3 out of over 20 do), but that's a matter of taking your time designing them, it's not necessary. Amateurs (mods) found a system to fix that where EA should have taken care of that.
Directly speaking the traits don't have anything to do with open world or CASt, however a computer only has so much processing power to give, if you have an open world and CASt it means taking a hit somewhere else.
There are a lot of minor routing problems as well as problems in the games own routing system which just exacerbates them.
and yes EA should've taken care of it, which brings me back to the point of Maxis not being good enough to code something like that.
I truely wonder if the personality system was heavier than the traits? To me it seems that was a design choice, just them trying to handle sims personalities differently. A poor choice for some but I for one am fine with it. It's like universal aging and SP or not really. Some love that (me), others don't because they prefer the ability to play 100% rotational safely. But I can't imagine those decisions are based on having to make sacrifices and choices because the game has open world and CASt.
I know open world will have some issues that a game with closed lots and neighborhoods don't have. For me the gain outweights the price big time though; the alternative has a much higher price for me to pay. The time not continuing in Sims 2 when they leave their home lot for instance I really don't like. And the fact that half of the time I can't control my off screen sims in Sims 4 prevents me from playing households with more than one sim. So yes, developing a game comes with choices, but what is a sacrifice for one is a favour for the other.
But anyway, I guess this is one of those "let's agree to disagree" situations
I find the personality system in TS2 was stronger than traits mainly because the personality system was baked into almost every aspect of a Sim's life. From socialization to dancing at a club, a Sim's personality, whether you made them very shy or outgoing, was very apparent. And it was also applied to other interactions within the game, too.
An issue with traits is that they, both in TS3 and TS4, don't really focus on personality as in-depth as TS2's personality system did. They give them buffs, or negative attributes, and if feels as if that's that.
Of course, the sense of having a personality builder in CAS is to define how a Sim acts in the game. If it's not going to really impact them much in their day to day lives, then the system fails to accomplish what it sets out to do.
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
What does the trait system have to do with open world and CASt in your opinion? And though it's true the open space in the worlds is far from crowded, the lots are with a good processor. The open worlds can have serious routing problems (3 out of over 20 do), but that's a matter of taking your time designing them, it's not necessary. Amateurs (mods) found a system to fix that where EA should have taken care of that.
Directly speaking the traits don't have anything to do with open world or CASt, however a computer only has so much processing power to give, if you have an open world and CASt it means taking a hit somewhere else.
There are a lot of minor routing problems as well as problems in the games own routing system which just exacerbates them.
and yes EA should've taken care of it, which brings me back to the point of Maxis not being good enough to code something like that.
I truely wonder if the personality system was heavier than the traits? To me it seems that was a design choice, just them trying to handle sims personalities differently. A poor choice for some but I for one am fine with it. It's like universal aging and SP or not really. Some love that (me), others don't because they prefer the ability to play 100% rotational safely. But I can't imagine those decisions are based on having to make sacrifices and choices because the game has open world and CASt.
I know open world will have some issues that a game with closed lots and neighborhoods don't have. For me the gain outweights the price big time though; the alternative has a much higher price for me to pay. The time not continuing in Sims 2 when they leave their home lot for instance I really don't like. And the fact that half of the time I can't control my off screen sims in Sims 4 prevents me from playing households with more than one sim. So yes, developing a game comes with choices, but what is a sacrifice for one is a favour for the other.
But anyway, I guess this is one of those "let's agree to disagree" situations
I find the personality system in TS2 was stronger than traits mainly because the personality system was baked into almost every aspect of a Sim's life. From socialization to dancing at a club, a Sim's personality, whether you made them very shy or outgoing, was very apparent. And it was also applied to other interactions within the game, too.
An issue with traits is that they, both in TS3 and TS4, don't really focus on personality as in-depth as TS2's personality system did. They give them buffs, or negative attributes, and if feels as if that's that.
Of course, the sense of having a personality builder in CAS is to define how a Sim acts in the game. If it's not going to really impact them much in their day to day lives, then the system fails to accomplish what it sets out to do.
Yes, I in fact think the game (in general, a life simulation game like Sims) would really benefit from a personality system the way it was in 2, and apart from that a few talents (like virtuoso, or artistic, or cooking). I genuinely wonder though if this had something to do with open world and CASt, because Sims 4 has the same system as 3 (traits) and worse too.
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
What does the trait system have to do with open world and CASt in your opinion? And though it's true the open space in the worlds is far from crowded, the lots are with a good processor. The open worlds can have serious routing problems (3 out of over 20 do), but that's a matter of taking your time designing them, it's not necessary. Amateurs (mods) found a system to fix that where EA should have taken care of that.
Directly speaking the traits don't have anything to do with open world or CASt, however a computer only has so much processing power to give, if you have an open world and CASt it means taking a hit somewhere else.
There are a lot of minor routing problems as well as problems in the games own routing system which just exacerbates them.
and yes EA should've taken care of it, which brings me back to the point of Maxis not being good enough to code something like that.
I truely wonder if the personality system was heavier than the traits? To me it seems that was a design choice, just them trying to handle sims personalities differently. A poor choice for some but I for one am fine with it. It's like universal aging and SP or not really. Some love that (me), others don't because they prefer the ability to play 100% rotational safely. But I can't imagine those decisions are based on having to make sacrifices and choices because the game has open world and CASt.
I know open world will have some issues that a game with closed lots and neighborhoods don't have. For me the gain outweights the price big time though; the alternative has a much higher price for me to pay. The time not continuing in Sims 2 when they leave their home lot for instance I really don't like. And the fact that half of the time I can't control my off screen sims in Sims 4 prevents me from playing households with more than one sim. So yes, developing a game comes with choices, but what is a sacrifice for one is a favour for the other.
But anyway, I guess this is one of those "let's agree to disagree" situations
I find the personality system in TS2 was stronger than traits mainly because the personality system was baked into almost every aspect of a Sim's life. From socialization to dancing at a club, a Sim's personality, whether you made them very shy or outgoing, was very apparent. And it was also applied to other interactions within the game, too.
An issue with traits is that they, both in TS3 and TS4, don't really focus on personality as in-depth as TS2's personality system did. They give them buffs, or negative attributes, and if feels as if that's that.
Of course, the sense of having a personality builder in CAS is to define how a Sim acts in the game. If it's not going to really impact them much in their day to day lives, then the system fails to accomplish what it sets out to do.
Yes, I in fact think the game (in general, a life simulation game like Sims) would really benefit from a personality system the way it was in 2, and apart from that a few talents (like virtuoso, or artistic, or cooking). I genuinely wonder though if this had something to do with open world and CASt, because Sims 4 has the same system as 3 (traits) and worse too.
Oh yeah, I don't think there's any correlation between an open world and smarter Sims. I think it's the design of the trait system itself. I'm still disappointed we have the same exact trait system as TS3, with the only changes being less traits, and traits integrated with emotions. I mention this all of the time, but I really feel we should have a mix of personality traits, and the trait system. The traits should really be fewer, but better in quality (being really integrated into our Sim's lives at every moment), and we should have access to every (non-conflicting) trait, with a set amount of points to choose the intensity of what ever we want.
Ehh, wow, impressive. I hope you are aware of the fact that such a functionality can be achieved by a simple if x < than y then z - code?!
x = present value of the so called 'emotion' (actually i forgot the name what TS2 used for its resource to determine how your sim feels).
y = limit of x (critical value)
z = trigger a certain action
I know, it is how TS1-3 works, but it's very primitive coding, to be honest (just a question of conditions). Of yourse, you can add an additional line of code to check if a certain sim has a special trait. If so you can make the game trigger a different animation, yadayadayada. But that's it. It has nothing to do with that how emotions work in TS4. They are more flexible and fulfil several purposes at once.
And how emotions system is more complex?
1) Ok, we have an object, it has a certain aura that will give a buff 1 (energized, priority: 1, lasts: 30min)
2) Ok, an event that will give a buff 2 (sad, priority: 3, lasts: 4hours)
a sim who received these buffs will be sad for 4 hours, as buff 2 has higher priority than buff1 and lasts longer. If buff 1 lasted for 5 hours, a sim would be sad for 4 hours and energized for one hour. This system is also a question of conditions.
If people were not interested in what we were making we wouldn't continue what we are making. Our data shows us differently. (c) - @SimGuruDrake(LINK) Complexity is our enemy when building The Sims, so we look for any opportunity to keep it down. (c) - @SimGuruMax(LINK)
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
What does the trait system have to do with open world and CASt in your opinion? And though it's true the open space in the worlds is far from crowded, the lots are with a good processor. The open worlds can have serious routing problems (3 out of over 20 do), but that's a matter of taking your time designing them, it's not necessary. Amateurs (mods) found a system to fix that where EA should have taken care of that.
Directly speaking the traits don't have anything to do with open world or CASt, however a computer only has so much processing power to give, if you have an open world and CASt it means taking a hit somewhere else.
There are a lot of minor routing problems as well as problems in the games own routing system which just exacerbates them.
and yes EA should've taken care of it, which brings me back to the point of Maxis not being good enough to code something like that.
I don't believe that Maxis isn't good enough to do that. But it is obvious that Maxis doesn't give the programmers enough time to test and optimize the games. Therefore Maxis also doesn't ever attempt to fix the problems which modders already have fixed. EA just doesn't prioritize such things at all.
We aren't seriously discussing if emotions of an AI are real, are we? Emotions are not perfect, yes, probably, but they need to be as flexible as they are to provide the sandbox gameplay I am used to at the moment.
What games besides TS4 do you know where emotions are a key features of the game, a feature that lets you control the AI and has an effect on their behavior. Please tell me.
There is more to a game than emotions for I did not buy Sims 4 just for a bunch of emotions whereas some of those sims look like they are on the purple pill or something. You look at one area and I look at many areas of the game and Sims 4 just does not have Imho. Only people talking about Sims 4 is Origins, EA/Maxis and some fan sites but I do not see anything on Sims 4 in PCGamer, Game Informer, IGN, Gamespot or any other major game site. Sims 4 could have had a lot potential and Imho EA/Maxis took Sims 4 in a direction that turned some people off. You may enjoy but you sure will not convince others that Sims 4 have a lot to offer and Same goes for me, but I know a good game when I play one and the gameplay in Sims is just average nothing sensational and what make it worse is that you can't construct apartments outside of that city and being a gamer If the I can't do that in another city I have feeling that there is other features that Sims 4 will not be capable of doing. I believe Sims 4 had hit an technical ceiling and cannot go beyond it.
Some people feel that EA/Maxis comprised on the creation of apartments by allowing only one place to build them but I see that as a minus being you will run out of space and you are restricted to build in one place whereas I would be more receptive of the EP if I could build in other neighborhoods. It is accepted now but sooner or later realization is going to hit some people that this limited way of building apartments is not as well thought out. I was really hyped about this EP but seeing the restrictions placed on it has changed my feeling toward it.
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This whole discussion on personality got me thinking; New motto for TS4; it might not be the strongest game in the franchise, but it's got lots of personality.
I am a perfectly decrepit withered old hag who enjoys self-mockery.
Need help falling asleep? http://wry7000.blogspot.com/
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
What does the trait system have to do with open world and CASt in your opinion? And though it's true the open space in the worlds is far from crowded, the lots are with a good processor. The open worlds can have serious routing problems (3 out of over 20 do), but that's a matter of taking your time designing them, it's not necessary. Amateurs (mods) found a system to fix that where EA should have taken care of that.
Directly speaking the traits don't have anything to do with open world or CASt, however a computer only has so much processing power to give, if you have an open world and CASt it means taking a hit somewhere else.
There are a lot of minor routing problems as well as problems in the games own routing system which just exacerbates them.
and yes EA should've taken care of it, which brings me back to the point of Maxis not being good enough to code something like that.
I don't believe that Maxis isn't good enough to do that. But it is obvious that Maxis doesn't give the programmers enough time to test and optimize the games. Therefore Maxis also doesn't ever attempt to fix the problems which modders already have fixed. EA just doesn't prioritize such things at all.
But there's a load of occasions when I have literally facepalmed at how stupid they've been... The 'big lemon car' bug in TS3 which could've so easily been solved if they'd thought it through while they were coding it.
The Simport system was another stupid idea that could've been done faster and better if they'd thought it through first, breaking the Sims tranferred down into data (containing all the details, with placeholder parts standing in for anything missing), instead of just using the launchers packaging system and sending the whole Sim, textures and all.
Everything they do gives the impression that the 'EA in a nutshell' video isn't that far from the truth IE a studio that's incredibly badly rushed and isn't allowed to take any breaks.
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
What was the cost exactly? I sincerely doubt there was, necessarily I mean. I know they cut down on some details that made Sims 2 great, but now that we have Sims 4 I truely wonder if those sacrifices were related to CASt and open world. Unless you're referring to bad performance. I'm willing to pay the price for that, play the game on a good computer, but I can understand why other disagree with that.
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
What does the trait system have to do with open world and CASt in your opinion? And though it's true the open space in the worlds is far from crowded, the lots are with a good processor. The open worlds can have serious routing problems (3 out of over 20 do), but that's a matter of taking your time designing them, it's not necessary. Amateurs (mods) found a system to fix that where EA should have taken care of that.
Directly speaking the traits don't have anything to do with open world or CASt, however a computer only has so much processing power to give, if you have an open world and CASt it means taking a hit somewhere else.
There are a lot of minor routing problems as well as problems in the games own routing system which just exacerbates them.
and yes EA should've taken care of it, which brings me back to the point of Maxis not being good enough to code something like that.
I don't believe that Maxis isn't good enough to do that. But it is obvious that Maxis doesn't give the programmers enough time to test and optimize the games. Therefore Maxis also doesn't ever attempt to fix the problems which modders already have fixed. EA just doesn't prioritize such things at all.
But there's a load of occasions when I have literally facepalmed at how plum they've been... The 'big lemon car' bug in TS3 which could've so easily been solved if they'd thought it through while they were coding it.
The Simport system was another plum idea that could've been done faster and better if they'd thought it through first, breaking the Sims tranferred down into data (containing all the details, with placeholder parts standing in for anything missing), instead of just using the launchers packaging system and sending the whole Sim, textures and all.
Everything they do gives the impression that the 'EA in a nutshell' video isn't that far from the truth IE a studio that's incredibly badly rushed and isn't allowed to take any breaks.
I didn't play TS3 long enough to remember those bugs because I only bought the very first couple of EPs. But more generally the problem seems to be:
1. EA doesn't test the games enough before they are released.
2. After a game is released EA doesn't use money on fixing bugs unless the bugs are so extreme that they prevent everybody from playing the game at all. Usually only bugs discovered at random or while testing a later expansion will therefore usually be fixed at all.
Comments
Well, it's not as if the BBC are going to call it a car game are they, they're just reporting an article.
See the 'EA in a nutshell' video before quoting IGN.
See above.
No it doesn't, by giving the players 'more control' they've damaged the simulation aspect of it.
And how exactly could someone without any personality have a relationship?
I don't think you understand what I mean by personality.
No it wasn't, TS4 was built upon the ruins of TS Olympus, which is the primary reason for the loss of personality and life in the Sims.
Online games don't need complex NPCs.
Yep, it's definitely not true that knuckleduster on this thread: http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/900188/when-does-it-become-all-about-the-game-and-not-about-manipulation-of-peoples-perceptions#latest Called the Sims 4 Sims 0.5.
Oh wait...
Although I do agree with you about the features, The Sims 3's open world and CASt were wonderful ideas in principle, but the cost was too high.
No, Maxis are trying to label moodlets as emotions.
Emotions have a massive bearing in The Sims 1 and 2, if your Sims mood was low in TS1 they could be heard periodically crying, similarly in The Sims 2 if they have too many bad memories (depending on what they are and what they're about) the Sims could suddenly cry, or become angry or just sigh and be depressed.
Humph.
Definitely your opinion, and not one I share.
Again I'm not sure you even understand what a personality is, I don't mean that they have to have pre-structure behaviours chosen by the player, I mean that the personality traits, points, ETC have to have a clear and definite impact in the behaviour of our sims in every aspect of their day to day lives.
In TS2 a shy Sim would shy away from others, run from fights in the room, dance very reservedly and would be less expressive in their conversations; You don't need an emotion billboard to tell you what they are feeling, they express their feelings instead.
Different levels of personality points would produce different personalities, which would then express themselves through a Sims lifetime aspiration, an outgoing knowledge sim would want to try out different occult states, a mean knowledge sim would want to use various objects to harm or annoy others, a serious knowledge sim would prefer to avoid occult lifestates, unless their interest dictated otherwise.
I'm sorry it's vague and unverifiable, I wish it wasn't, the EX-employee in question requested that I never mention ANY personal details about them so they don't get into trouble.
Yeah I know, the problem is the 'emotions' don't mean anything... I've had furious sims want to keep hugging people, what's the point of emotions if they mean nothing?
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
I've seen all of these at least ten times. Once, I was a hater myself, you know?
Depends. The game still provides a life simulation context (remember TS1? No?). The simulation happens player driven. And yet there are certain tasks/goals/conditions the player has to meet to progress in the game (--> by doing that the player 'simulates' life).
TS4 has always been rather a sandbox (!) life simulation than a 'pure' simulation. Does not change the fact that your surrounding (the so called set dressing for the life-sim) is being simulated, though --> npc sims have jobs, obligations, they behave like you would expect as soon as they enter a community lot.
The best thing is: You don't HAVE to manipulate everything. The game just provides the tools, it's your choice if you use them in the end.
A personality is not necessarily needed to get into a relationship with somebody but that's beside the point: In TS4 the 'personality' is determined through the actions of a sim (traits in combination with emotions will most likely trigger autonomous behaviors). Example: If a sim is hot-headed chances are high(er) that he will get angry fast(er) during a conversation, means: If you don't control him the game will trigger mean interactions. The consequence: Sims will have a bad relationship with this particular sim. In my understanding you can call that an attitude --> personality.
They reused assets, yes, but you can't rework an engine that was programmed to function as an MMO anda dapt it for a game like TS4. Please, just look how the game works (semi-open neighborhoods, multi-tasking etc.) - there is no way this could have ever become an MMO. They had to start from scratch.
Maybe they ran out of time. Maybe they had plans to improve the AI (by giving them 'personality'). We will never know.
Ehh, wow, impressive. I hope you are aware of the fact that such a functionality can be achieved by a simple if x < than y then z - code?!
x = present value of the so called 'emotion' (actually i forgot the name what TS2 used for its resource to determine how your sim feels).
y = limit of x (critical value)
z = trigger a certain action
I know, it is how TS1-3 works, but it's very primitive coding, to be honest (just a question of conditions). Of yourse, you can add an additional line of code to check if a certain sim has a special trait. If so you can make the game trigger a different animation, yadayadayada. But that's it. It has nothing to do with that how emotions work in TS4. They are more flexible and fulfil several purposes at once.
I understand. But traits do have (!) an impact on the behavior of a sim. They can trigger a certain emotional state (like in my example) or an autonomous action.
Of course it's not as fleshed out as it was in TS2 but, IMO, this is not a requirement for a life-sim.
Not true! You can tend the garden and invite your friends over. Your imagination is the limit!!!
You know I don't mind at all other people sharing how they play and why the game works for them. With enough detail, that kind of sharing could give someone else some ideas on how they might try playing the game. Goodness knows some of us who bought it aren't currently getting our money's worth out of this game.
But to keep insisting that other players' opinions are wrong just because you've found a way to play that you enjoy is just not productive.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
Okay, got you. I am sorry if this was the case.
That should be 'EA in a nutshell' video, it creatively shows that IGN's reviews can and are bought.
I can't believe that EA is so incredibly petty they actually censor the name of that video.
But the simulation is supposed to occur independently of a players interaction... The Sims should be able to play themselves without any interference from the player.
But if you don't use them, your sim will get nowhere.
But the angry emotion has no impact, angry sims will have calm conversations with other sims and even hug them... The emotion means nothing.
Actually you can rework an engine that was programmed to function as an MMO, check out Wurm Unlimited, it was an MMO but the exact same engine has simply been made into an offline version of the exact same game. The online version is called (rather creatively) Wurm Online.
I wish they'd taken longer, personality might've made this game worth a damn.
Yes that's how most games emotion systems are coded, but TS1 & 2 (although sadly not 3) have randomisers in them, which cause unexpected behaviour, couple that with unrequited relationships and personality points and interests affecting those variables as well and it's a pretty complex mix.
The only thing emotions do in TS4 is change the billboards trigger periodic animations, unlock certain interactions and generate wants, they have no bearing on the actual behaviour or social attitudes of the sims.
But the traits impact is minimal at best, it's not even as fleshed out as the traits in TS3 or the personality points of 1 & 2.
I dont think sourcing wikipedia is a bright idea. Wikipedia can be easily manupilated and edited by anyone.
Edited to add: I play animal crossing new leaf. And I guess it can be similar to the sims 4 in account I cant play for long periods of time without being bored lol (not to be mean just how much it catches my attention the same can be said about the harvest moon franchise) however ive played (AC) since gamecube and I know what to expect from games as such and yes they all can be put into the category of life simulation (I agree with you on that), however its obvious what is achievable in thus simulation. Let me explain.
When I play animal crossing (new leaf and the original) I know what to expect. And theyve pretty much kept it in the same box. You know that new leaf came from the original from the gamecube because it still features the basics. It just expands in future games but I know to expect pretty much the same game play from each one. You are still paying off a house to tom nook (in new leaf you have a choice you dont have to go into his place of business thus never have to upgrade your house and he doesnt own the store anymore so,you dont need to sell him anything anymore to make money). My point is you know what tyoe of game youre playing and what you can do and its pretty much stuck to the basics with adding different ideas in future games.
Harvest moon (I dont know if you are familiar with it) came out originally on super Nintendo and last I played was on the Wii. (Ah snes takes me back lol) but this is also a life simulation, I prefer this over AC because you can have a family and get married. However, you know that this game is about farming and your character moving into a family farm thats rundown (lol). Its pretty much the same basis in every game with a twist but in the end its all the same (they did add the option to choose to be male or female which is nice lol)
Now the sims. From 1 on up to 3 you can see how much its built but kept with the basics. There are still things that you can get from the original. You know youre playing a game from the sims franchise. Now with 4 a lot of the original concepts that made the sims well the sims has been stripped out and thats where it differs when comparing it to AC. Atleast nintendo kepts features that it knew its fans loved when creating future iterations of AC. But they also added on. Which to be honest something I was expecting from 4 before buying and playing for the first time. Because thats just what theyd done over the years. All I imagined was the perfect mix of 2 and 3 the open world with a lot of what they brought in ts2. And if you look closely in the forums theres a lot of people who expected similar ideas. But my point is the sims has branched off of what made it the game a lot of us loved from 1 on up to 3 comparably to AC. Thats why we criticize it. Not only have we spent hard earned money on it but weve had so much better from just the base game alone in past games!
The cost of a huge open world was the life of the Sims, the personality suffered a hit, with the new traits system and the maps were simply too big to seem very alive.
The game also took a hit in performance and stability, there's a lot to go wrong in an open world and a slight screw up with pathing can cause massive problems.
Also I don't really think Maxis is good enough to code something like that successfully.
Directly speaking the traits don't have anything to do with open world or CASt, however a computer only has so much processing power to give, if you have an open world and CASt it means taking a hit somewhere else.
There are a lot of minor routing problems as well as problems in the games own routing system which just exacerbates them.
and yes EA should've taken care of it, which brings me back to the point of Maxis not being good enough to code something like that.
Please don't twist my words. They are still adding content via expansion packs, stuff packs, game packs and patches, and as such it is by definition unfinished.
The Sims 4 base game had an incredible amount of new, unique gameplay experiences. Yes, there were things missing, but such was the case with 3, 2 and 1 as well... that's why they're called "base" games after all, because it's a foundation to build off of.
I know open world will have some issues that a game with closed lots and neighborhoods won't have. For me the gain outweights the price big time though; the alternative has a much higher price for me to pay. The time not continuing in Sims 2 when they leave their home lot for instance I really don't like. And the fact that half of the time I can't control my off screen sims in Sims 4 prevents me from playing households with more than one sim. So yes, developing a game comes with choices, but what is a sacrifice for one is a favour for the other.
But anyway, I guess this is one of those "let's agree to disagree" situations
I find the personality system in TS2 was stronger than traits mainly because the personality system was baked into almost every aspect of a Sim's life. From socialization to dancing at a club, a Sim's personality, whether you made them very shy or outgoing, was very apparent. And it was also applied to other interactions within the game, too.
An issue with traits is that they, both in TS3 and TS4, don't really focus on personality as in-depth as TS2's personality system did. They give them buffs, or negative attributes, and if feels as if that's that.
Of course, the sense of having a personality builder in CAS is to define how a Sim acts in the game. If it's not going to really impact them much in their day to day lives, then the system fails to accomplish what it sets out to do.
Oh yeah, I don't think there's any correlation between an open world and smarter Sims. I think it's the design of the trait system itself. I'm still disappointed we have the same exact trait system as TS3, with the only changes being less traits, and traits integrated with emotions. I mention this all of the time, but I really feel we should have a mix of personality traits, and the trait system. The traits should really be fewer, but better in quality (being really integrated into our Sim's lives at every moment), and we should have access to every (non-conflicting) trait, with a set amount of points to choose the intensity of what ever we want.
And how emotions system is more complex?
1) Ok, we have an object, it has a certain aura that will give a buff 1 (energized, priority: 1, lasts: 30min)
2) Ok, an event that will give a buff 2 (sad, priority: 3, lasts: 4hours)
a sim who received these buffs will be sad for 4 hours, as buff 2 has higher priority than buff1 and lasts longer. If buff 1 lasted for 5 hours, a sim would be sad for 4 hours and energized for one hour. This system is also a question of conditions.
Complexity is our enemy when building The Sims, so we look for any opportunity to keep it down. (c) - @SimGuruMax (LINK)
Some people feel that EA/Maxis comprised on the creation of apartments by allowing only one place to build them but I see that as a minus being you will run out of space and you are restricted to build in one place whereas I would be more receptive of the EP if I could build in other neighborhoods. It is accepted now but sooner or later realization is going to hit some people that this limited way of building apartments is not as well thought out. I was really hyped about this EP but seeing the restrictions placed on it has changed my feeling toward it.
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But there's a load of occasions when I have literally facepalmed at how stupid they've been... The 'big lemon car' bug in TS3 which could've so easily been solved if they'd thought it through while they were coding it.
The Simport system was another stupid idea that could've been done faster and better if they'd thought it through first, breaking the Sims tranferred down into data (containing all the details, with placeholder parts standing in for anything missing), instead of just using the launchers packaging system and sending the whole Sim, textures and all.
Everything they do gives the impression that the 'EA in a nutshell' video isn't that far from the truth IE a studio that's incredibly badly rushed and isn't allowed to take any breaks.
1. EA doesn't test the games enough before they are released.
2. After a game is released EA doesn't use money on fixing bugs unless the bugs are so extreme that they prevent everybody from playing the game at all. Usually only bugs discovered at random or while testing a later expansion will therefore usually be fixed at all.