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Why do most people think that toddlers will eventually happen?
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Haven't there been threads recently that told everyone exactly what they said with links and everything else. Let's not put this on customers. Maxis knows how they led people to keep those preorders. Words like 'not at launch'. Words like 'Didn't want to shoe horn them in, but would be a priority'... statements. Exploring them statements. Well, that exploration never happened or it fell off the side of the cliff because that was over a year ago. Nobody explores things for a game that long. So, to me disingenuous statements from them. Not my fault, they said them, I didn't.
Keep in mind the forum is not the majority of sims players, this is honestly probably about 10-20% of the player base, but I do get what you're saying, we can only go by forum activity and not those who are not on the forum and what they think. So let's just say for this next statement that the forum "is" all of the player base - when the majority of your customer base wants something, and you haven't indicated it is an impossibility, it is a good business decision to listen to your customer base. Your business cannot thrive without meeting the expectations of (the majority of, as you'll never please everyone) customers. Thus, until they indicate they will not be adding in toddlers, the assumption is that because so many people do want it, it will happen. Because the other alternative is to assume it won't be coming.
Mind you that's all for realistic requests and expectations. I'm sure everyone would love for all the games and content to be free - but that's not a logical business practice and thus no one really expects that.
Um, it was actually 2 months prior to release when they announced toddlers wouldn't be included.
Maybe there's nothing to "get." Why do some people assume toddlers won't be coming? Why do people assume we'll get pets and seasons and supernaturals? I have yet to see the gurus say definitively they'll be adding anything other than the upcoming restaurants and kid stuff pack and the only things they've absolutely said they won't add are CASt and a fully open world (am I missing something?). Everything that people request, want and expect is pretty much speculation at this point and everyone has different levels of belief in what this team will provide for this iteration. And there's nothing wrong with any of it, as long as people are expressing their wants, expectations and lack of expectations politely.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
I think it would be wonderful if they added toddlers it would be great and they would earn a lot of money but they seem so focused on other things and don't really seem to be hearing people or caring for some reason. I don't really understand why they haven't added them. I just personally don't understand why most people seem so upset that it hasn't happened because they expected it to without a promise it would.
Thank you btw, I love Sam and Dean.
I think you misunderstand that people by far expect or want toddlers more than any of the others things you mentioned, that is the clear difference. I find nothing wrong with wanting things but expecting things that were never promised doesn't make sense. My point is expecting something that was never promised does not make sense and you just set yourself up for disappointment, wanting something is fine but when it does not happen you are not nearly as disappointed. I don't expect things that are not promised.
YOU ARE WRONG! They WERE promised. Do you think for a minute many of us - adults anyway - would still be here waiting had they NOT promised them? Honestly - we are not idiots or children who believe something will happen if we wish for it hard enough. The fact remains we were told they would come once they had more time to do them properly (long before Rachels speech where it sounded as if it was a decision from the start and not a time issue) - why do you think people were going nuts over Rachels interview? Why because as many of us said who had heard the promises live on Twitch tv said someone was fibbing... we didn't go balistic on wishful thinking - I assure you.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I like your outlook and generally agree with your sentiment. While I'm not a game designer and don't claim any intimate knowledge of the Sims games inner workings, I feel there are a few things that can be logically deduced. (I do have coding experience and know my way around a computer, mind you.)
RE: Is it technically impossible? Definitely not. Toddlers are just another life-stage. If you can make children, which are different-sized and require a different set of animations than the teens/adults/elders, then you can make toddlers. That's not to say that it's -easily- accomplished though -- which is the real crux of things, IMO.
The key issues are that toddlers would require a whole new body to be created -- in 3D terms that's a new skeleton/mesh and a whole slew of new animations that define how this new body moves. Then on top of that, you have to define how all the existing bodies interact with this new body. Meaning a bunch of new animations for the children and adult-sized Sims so they can interact with the toddlers. So you not only have to do some very intensive work to create the toddlers, but also some intensive work to add to the existing life stages so they can actually interact together.
Aside from that, you can be sure there are people at Maxis who are looking at this from a 'ROI' (return-on-investment) type of standpoint. It's going to take a lot of animating work to add a life-stage, and they're asking what all this time is going to really gain them, what it going to add to the game. Personally, I believe that the Gurus are probably a bit unsure of just what they can really -DO- with toddlers. In the past, they've been a point that have been criticized as often more tedious than enjoyable. (Again, not by everyone, but there seems to be a significant opinion that they weren't all that fun to play in earlier incarnations.)
I'm sure that the Gurus want to make toddlers, if they do so at all, that will add fun gameplay to their game. I'm not so sure they've decided, in their own minds, just what that means they should be/do. I suspect the thought that they may do the work, do all the animations, put in all the time, and then end up with a life-stage that's just generally there but not all that enjoyable to really do much with is something that might weigh on their thoughts for the subject. If this is indeed the case, then I can see why they may not be jumping right in with a positive decision to move forward.
Unfortunately, the longer this issue continues, the worse things are likely to get. The more time passes, the more people tend to expect. How many times have we seen statements that start out stating how long it's been since the game came out, how much time the Gurus have 'had' to do something? The fact is that they haven't had all that time solely to work on toddlers. They've obviously been doing other things. But the 'You've had X years now to do this' is definitely a thing people pull out. So the longer they wait, the more pressure there is, rightly or not, to make toddlers a fun and enjoyable thing. It gets to be a losing proposition to spend a lot of time working on something that, at best, may really be a kind of mediocre addition in terms of gameplay.
I'm not claiming that toddlers, if they are indeed added, can only be mediocre in TS4. I'm just speculating that this is possibly a real fear of the team at Maxis -- a valid concern that causes them to really question the 'worth' of actually adding them in. If we're going to sit here speculating, I choose to speculate a bit on why things are as they are and hopefully get some people thinking about it a bit.
Show me where and I will apologize.
I didn't misunderstand that there is a group of fans who really want toddlers back more than anything else. Trust me, they are very vocal on the forums here. Perhaps you misunderstand that there are quite a few people who have no interest in toddlers--apparently enough that Maxis felt comfortable leaving out a whole life stage for an extended period of time. And that there are those who want other things more than toddlers (I'd much rather have apartments first, for instance).
I get your point but you can't really tell people how to feel, how to set their own expectations or how to feel when the expectations aren't met. Not everyone is you so they won't deal with this scenario the same way you do. You don't expect them--great, enjoy that. Others of us do expect the devs to get them back in the game. *shrug* There's no right or wrong way of dealing with this. People make their choices and live with the consequences however they land and it's not really your responsibility to make people change their perspective.
ETA: typo
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
And I don't speak for anyone but me but maybe they expect them because they were in two of the three prequels of the sims series.
Love your profile pic!
We're getting two packs next month. That's two more packs that toddlers (IF ever added) will not be part of. You won't be able to take them to restaurants and there certainly won't be any items for them in the kids pack. Yeah, it's going to be a horrible move on the devs part if toddlers are never added. I hope they prove me wrong. But realistically speaking, it seems more and more unlikely.
First page, first post. Read it all as its about what has been said about toddlers before and after the game was released. I do not see the word "promise" I do still think it was rather rude to say one thing and then do another, but that's just me.
Ideas on how to improve babies.
I never told anyone how to feel at all, I was trying to understand why people expect them. Read my first message I posted. I was trying to understand if I missed some promise somewhere where it was stated that toddlers were promised. If you want to expect something that was never promised by all means you can but there is a difference between expecting and wanting something. Expecting something is usually based on a promise or something stated, wanting is totally different. Expecting something never promised is just setting yourself up for some disappointment. My big point was where was it promised so I can understand why people expect it?
I am not trying to change anyone's perspective but don't understand how anyone could expect something that was not promised.
They said that all life stages would be added when they first announced the game, then they said no toddlers, specifically they stated no toddlers, did everyone just over look this statement?
I have a better one for you. If gurus can say (recently) they aren't working on pets, then why can't they say this directly about toddlers? What is the difference here? I will tell you the difference. It's a game breaker and all those family players leave. So, it's the old carrot game, hold it out by not saying anything and maybe those customers buy something else. It's not this forum only that thinks they were implied to be in the game shortly just as pools and ghosts, but other fansites and sites that talk about interviews not just game content.
It's real simple if they can say no about pets, they can say no about toddlers...and you see they won't. Why is that? Money grab, if they do we all leave.
Ideas on how to improve babies.
Little bit hard when EA has conveniently took those TWO Live Twitch TV Q & A's and made them unavailable. It was live - they even went on to explain it was not hard to do - to add toddlers - but it was very time consuming and required a lot of the much needed animators time which they were apparently short of time with while trying to finish up the base for launch. Ryan Vaughn was there in at least one of those Q & A's.
EA is a Master at removing clips, segments of clips, and posts devs make - you know that as well as I do.
Also there were at least a couple MILLION people signed in for those two live "shows" - it was after the E3 2014,( where devs still said all the life stages would be in the game), after it was leaked that toddlers would not be in the game at launch - along with ghosts and other things - so they quickly had to go live with the fans I guess to calm down the masses...
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Simified: What are the Life Stages in The Sims 4? Are there any new ones?
SimGuruGrant: The Sims 4 will have all of the same life stages as previous games, Baby, Toddler, Child, Teen, Young Adult, Adult, and Elder. There are no new life stages coming at this time.
This ^^ is why some people expect it.
Then later- June25, 2014:http://www.gamezone.com/news/the-sims-4-won-t-have-pool-building-or-toddlers-at-launch
Over on Twitter, fellow producer Graham Nardone clarified that Babies and Toddlers were not combined. "We know they're distinctly different and didn't want to shoehorn them in," he said.
Those two statements infer that toddlers will eventually be added.
BUT then later in July they said this:https://www.thesims.com/news/whats-out-and-whats-in
Which sounds like they chose to do other things and not include them so there is quite a bit of confusion as to what their plans are.
BUT then we have a sticky post asking fans what they want in toddlers which again seems like they are working on them. So, all of these things are why people believe they are working on them.
ON that same sticky thread we have this comment: Posted by SimGuruDrake
Before I head off for the evening I wanted to come in and say that I am moving this to the general discussion area.
Please do not comment in here with "I don't want toddlers" or anything of the sort. This is an ideas thread for those players who do and what they would like to see from this life state and it should remain as such.
When asked about toddlers: There have also been comments like "we can't comment on future content". Some folks take this as toddlers will come in the future.
I don't know what to think. For me personally, toddlers are not a deal breaker. I enjoy the game as is but I would like to see their return because it seems weird without them.
Edited to add stuff in bold.
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Orgin ID: Glimmer50
I think we're just talking in circles at this point. You keep making statements that indicate you feel people are setting themselves up for disappointment and that since it isn't what you would do, you don't get why others would and, unfortunately, the implication is that your way is the "correct" way somehow. I (and a few others) have tried to explain both that it doesn't matter what other people do or whether you understand it or not AND that people have multiple reasons for believing they're coming back (from the fact that they've been in 2 of the 3 previous main pc versions of the game to the fact that they won't outright say they aren't coming).
So, I don't understand why you feel the need to understand it. If people provide their personal reasons for expecting them and you simply argue that they don't have any "promise" to support it, what's the point? People may or may not be expecting them back based on a perceived promise. I personally don't see the comments the gurus have made about toddlers a promise but I do believe that the devs are very interested in what their fans want and that they'll do their best to provide what they can. Based on how important the life stage is to some people (minority or not, they are very passionate and vocal about it), it makes plenty of sense to me that they are working on figuring out how to get the little ankle-biters back in the game somehow.
I don't expect you to understand that and don't believe you need to understand it, but that's my perspective.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
Im a simmer forever
Generations or bust.
As most of the media involving this info has been erased from the web, I unfortunately can only find a single site with images and copies of early interviews. Most Sites currently involved with the Sims 4 are NOT going to bite the hands that "feed them" exclusives.
honeywellsims4news.tumblr.com/post/90934806596/the-sims-4-pools-toddlers-what-happened
honeywellsims4news.tumblr.com/post/62016689872/qa-grant-rodiek-summary
EA & Maxis call the shots on this. Good Luck in making anyone "fess-up" (not going to happen). All a consumer can do is talk with their money and realize that everyone has the right to want what they want. Tearing each other apart and calling each other names isn't going to solve anything.
As a sims lover this whole situation makes me sad.
Edit to add; Excellent find on the alternate sites & sources @Glimmer50
So what I'm getting from this is that "understanding why [some] people expect something that was never promised" is somehow what you hope to get out of this or learn here. But I think that you're lacking some other bits of 'understanding' that are really standing in the way. To whit: Your use of the term/concept, "promised."
IMO, it's important to acknowledge that "promised" can be a very tricky concept. What, precisely, constitutes a "promise?" Do you have to say the words, "I promise?" Do you have to "give your word?" Do you have to "swear to it?" Does it require a handshake, a signature or a legal contract? The point is: Different people may have different criteria and views about what they consider a "promise."
I think that if you would come to understand that point, it would greatly facilitate your understanding of how some people feel they were promised toddlers in TS4, even if you yourself do not.
Understanding generally requires trying to examine and well, -understand- the other person's point-of-view. Something far too many people on these forums seem to totally skip over in favor of trying to 'debate' or 'refute' other people's points-of-view instead. IMO, of course.
TLDR: The key to actually 'understanding' is realizing that different people view things differently -- not always by your own precise definitions -- and then trying to examine the views held by others and see things through their eyes, even if you ultimately disagree with their definitions/way of seeing things.
My personal opinion is that EA is not budgeting this game properly and it is not really on their priority agenda- marketing, updates, development, budget, and otherwise.
The Guru response to "help me understand why family play is important" said it all to me. It's not the Gurus' fault- it is their job to represent the company in a positive light and be on the front lines- but that whole response was just insane.
It is corporate-speak at its worst.