[Sims 5] Going for Broke «12...Next Go

greenXen

The game designers made a choice in The Sims 4 to include only middle class and upper class neighborhoods in the game. I think this was a mistake.

While it’s probably true that most players prefer to have middle-class to ultra-rich lifestyles for their Sims since aspirational fulfillment is a central theme in the game, I think looking at it from this perspective only shortchanges players because:

1. Homeless challenges are popular, and this wasn’t allowed for in the base game. Also, had this been done from the start, Sims might have been able to own businesses in Get To Work without having to purchase a separate home lot.
   
2. Rags-to-Riches style challenges are popular. Without a true baseline to start with, they are less challenging and fun and harder to set up.
   
3. Studies show that relative wealth is more rewarding than absolute wealth. So, the enjoyment in seeing Sims succeed isn’t necessarily purely in having your Sims do well, but also having them do well in comparison to their neighbors.
   
4. Some people want to recreate reality, and most people don’t live in mansions with ultra-slick kitchens and electronics.
   
5. Some players are deviant and like to intentionally create dystopia and/or cause their Sims to suffer.
   
6. It’s not something that can be incorporated in later as effectively. Once people have a taste for the luxury goods already in the game, it’s unlikely that many would *choose* to regress to poor quality furniture with poor aesthetics, even if that’s something they felt deprived of initially. However, many people gladly buy upgrades in quality and aesthetics as additional packs.
   
7. Including lots of distressed, low-motive items can make some of the CC makers’ items look not just spectacular, but extra-spectacular in comparison.

Additionally, developers did not include the ability to choose starting monies or assets, which doubly compounded the problems of trying to play the game without money.

So, in light of all this, I’d like to ask developers to please include in the Sims 5 base game:

1. Lower-class neighborhoods and items.
2. A way to start play without purchasing a lot.
3. Sliders for starting monies and/or difficulty. A slider for difficulty might adjust other features such as motive decay rate as well as money.
4. Distressed and derelict furniture, clothing, and other items.

I think this approach would also open up the possibility of exploring and/or adding other types of play such as a real-estate system, banking and loans, or lotteries.

Thanks for reading and reconsidering this aspect of gameplay.

Go for broke!

Scobre

Worn out walls and floors would be nice. I miss the ugly looking furniture for poorer families. It always bothered me how even the cheap furniture looks too perfect and clean.

greenXen

Scobre wrote: »

Worn out walls and floors would be nice. I miss the ugly looking furniture for poorer families. It always bothered me how even the cheap furniture looks too perfect and clean.

Yes, definitely. Incorporating a bit of grunge too would add a lot to the atmosphere. I wouldn't mind seeing some distressing of furniture over time and/or dust or cobweb accumulation either.

Scobre

GreenXen wrote: »

Scobre wrote: »

Worn out walls and floors would be nice. I miss the ugly looking furniture for poorer families. It always bothered me how even the cheap furniture looks too perfect and clean.

Yes, definitely. Incorporating a bit of grunge too would add a lot to the atmosphere. I wouldn't mind seeing some distressing of furniture over time and/or dust or cobweb accumulation either.

Yes that would be wonderful. I guess the new stuff pack added some worn out furniture for TS4, but it still looks too clean.

Pary

Yes please, when sims 5 comes around. More grunge, more industrial, more ability to play our games as homeless Sims, or struggling sims.

I merely remove money from my sims in my games if they become too rich when their "story" isn't meant for that to happen. But I would really like to not worry about those kinds of details, and actually just play the game I want to play. The furniture, even the cheapest, still looks too "good". I would like more of the same that we had in a couple of S3 store packs - milk crate bookcases and stereo's. Perhaps cardboard boxes, even if they're just decor, though usable would be better. Piles of old newspaper decor, graffiti as wall stencils or wallpaper.

Peeling paint, torn wallpaper, placeable decor such as walls with holes in them. Broken windows and doors, rickety park benches. Old showers that look as if they're made out of barrels. A bath that looks as if it were made from half of a 44gallon drum. Those kinds of things.

I like to play rags to riches, apocalypse and asylum challenges a lot. So do quite a few people it seems. We've been asking for this kind of thing for years. To see a little thought given to this in the next iteration of Sims would be really good.

I think a slider for starting money sounds terrific! I realise your sim has to own a lot because of the mailbox and such, so your sim can never truly be "homeless" but being able to furnish your empty lot as, say, a ruined old park would be good.

king_of_simcity7

Excellent thread, OP!

I agree, from what I have seen, TS4 seems to have focused on the mega rich utopian lifestyle of Beverley Hills mixed with Floridionion paradise and Mediterainian glamour.

But where are the less well off areas? Where are the 'hoods' the 'ends' the ghettos, the estates and the streets?

Riverview had 'Trailer Parks' where the Brokes lived, the open world arrangement looked excellent and provide a rich (and poor) contrast

Rags to riches type stories have always been popular. A new Sim moves to town and starts out with the most basic of wages, and then works thier way up and gets marries, has babies that grow into toddlers but you struggle to pay for their upkeep until they become children and teens. The excitement of a new promotion bringing home a bonus to buy a new TV to replace the broken one, you can finally afford a second toilet to prevent the inevitable que each time every Sim decides they want to use it the same time do you used to send them to community lots. The extra income means you can finally afford a bath do they no longer have to shower at the gym, the sense of achievement because unlike everyone else, you did not play with the cheats

That is a real Sims game, a game about life, you create, you control and you rule.

But now what do you get? Bro fists and a baby with your aunt? No thank you!

Neia

Isn't that something that will come naturally in TS4 with a town-themed EP ? Living in town is usually more expensive than living in suburbs/more rural area, so that means lower neighbourhoods are more common there. And appartments would certainly help too.

greenXen

@Pary, I'm guessing that it's possible in the next game that they could design a way to make homelessness an option by including a 'post office', e-bills that go to the phone, or a community shelter or hostel?

@King_of_simcity7, those are definitely things I miss in my game. Not having the contrast also adds a bit to the monotony.

@Neia, I don't think that's something that comes naturally. Downgrading is harder for most people than upgrading. I also think the tendency of the developers is to keep adding in higher and higher end items in EPs since people tend to want to buy 'better' items than what they already have. I also think in some cases the increased expense of downtown apartments doesn't matter then because those that play for multiple generations will have families that have built up funds already.

Neia

@GreenXen
I didn't mean naturally gameplay wise, more like where it would be the most fitting, because that's where they are the most common in real life. I don't know how that went for TS3 but TS2 apartments didn't seem that higher end to me, more like the go-to apartment for a young adult who just left the parents' house, I mean some of them were really tiny, with the Murphy bed and the wardrobe. It was about that time the Ikea SP was released so that certainly helped too.

greenXen

Neia wrote: »

@GreenXen
I didn't mean naturally gameplay wise, more like where it would be the most fitting, because that's where they are the most common in real life. I don't know how that went for TS3 but TS2 apartments didn't seem that higher end to me, more like the go-to apartment for a young adult who just left the parents' house, I mean some of them were really tiny, with the Murphy bed and the wardrobe. It was about that time the Ikea SP was released so that certainly helped too.

Yes, cities are definitely an area where the money struggles could be played out, but there are also trailer parks, shacks, homeless and other situations that could be accounted for too. Worldwide, there is actually more poverty in rural areas than in urban areas, so the apartment setting isn't anymore fitting than other settings.

Krisha880

I would love some more variety in the game! I play rags-to-riches (unintentionally) as I want my Sims to work for the stuff I buy them. I don't cheat! If they can't afford their bills, they have to move! I don't have many ultra rich Sims or households. I like the idea of micro homes on small lots, but to make them look great, they end up costing a fortune. I would like some eco friendly alternatives, solar panels to reduse bills, cheap and sustainable materials to build prefabs that does not cost a fortune, environmentally friendly electronic devices and appliances, as well as furniture. I also not necessarely think that cheap and / or eco friendly equals low comfort / low energy!

greenXen

Krisha880 wrote: »

I would love some more variety in the game! I play rags-to-riches (unintentionally) as I want my Sims to work for the stuff I buy them. I don't cheat! If they can't afford their bills, they have to move! I don't have many ultra rich Sims or households. I like the idea of micro homes on small lots, but to make them look great, they end up costing a fortune. I would like some eco friendly alternatives, solar panels to reduse bills, cheap and sustainable materials to build prefabs that does not cost a fortune, environmentally friendly electronic devices and appliances, as well as furniture. I also not necessarely think that cheap and / or eco friendly equals low comfort / low energy!

I love the idea of microhomes, but sadly I often end up overbuilding. That tiny house thread was fun.

Krisha880

GreenXen wrote: »

Krisha880 wrote: »

I would love some more variety in the game! I play rags-to-riches (unintentionally) as I want my Sims to work for the stuff I buy them. I don't cheat! If they can't afford their bills, they have to move! I don't have many ultra rich Sims or households. I like the idea of micro homes on small lots, but to make them look great, they end up costing a fortune. I would like some eco friendly alternatives, solar panels to reduse bills, cheap and sustainable materials to build prefabs that does not cost a fortune, environmentally friendly electronic devices and appliances, as well as furniture. I also not necessarely think that cheap and / or eco friendly equals low comfort / low energy!

I love the idea of microhomes, but sadly I often end up overbuilding. That tiny house thread was fun.

Thank you so much for the link! I have not seen this! I love building prefab-looking micro homes, but they end up costing way to much for my Sims:-/ It would be great if we got cheaper windows, wallpapers, wood panelig and concrete walls! I want low cost fab houses, as well as the option for smart interior solutions for small spaces!

PHOEBESMOM601

I couldn't agree more. I've always disliked the whole "luxury consumerism" that seems to run rampant in the Sims. There was more than enough of it in TS3. Rich Sims that have it made are boring to me.

This topic is related to one of the main reasons I was so disappointed with TS4. I hardly ever build mansions and it always disappointed me that my TS3 Sims never knew if they were living in a shack or a castle. When I heard that the new Sims were going to have emotions and be effected by their surroundings I was really excited. Little did I know..........

Pukingautotune

Yes! I always used to create poor families in sims 2 and 3, I loved playing with the broke family in the sims 2 because it was just a lot more challenging, thus more fun, to try to maintain a family with a single parent and 3 kids.
I would definitely like some grunge furniture like the sims 2 apartment life and also lots of cheap looking basics like in previous base games.

The Sims just used to be such a fun and challenging game but most of that is gone now.

greenXen

@Phoebesmom601, yes! I hear you with the Sims being immune to their environments -- they don't notice whether there's paint on the walls, lights in the home, or a roof over their heads. (I honestly thought it was a bug at first, but they said that's the way the game was supposed to ship.) It is a good point that I didn't include, but should absolutely be part of this. What's the point of it all if the Sims don't notice or aren't affected by it?

@Pukingautotune (what a screen name!), indeed. A money slider or the ability to adjust some aspects of difficulty might also go toward addressing some of the problem with making the game still challenging and interesting for long-term players, while not alienating or making the learning curve too steep for new players.

king_of_simcity7

I don't know if anyone has seen this before but this is Charles Booth's poverty map in London from 1898 where he classed a number of areas of incomes:







If this was TS4, everything would be the yellow or red colours but some players would rather seen their Sims live in the darker colours

greenXen

Moved to ideas. . . this is actually as much a criticism of Sims 4 as a suggestion for Sims 5, but OK.

Cinebar

GreenXen wrote: »

The game designers made a choice in The Sims 4 to include only middle class and upper class neighborhoods in the game. I think this was a mistake.

While it’s probably true that most players prefer to have middle-class to ultra-rich lifestyles for their Sims since aspirational fulfillment is a central theme in the game, I think looking at it from this perspective only shortchanges players because:

1. Homeless challenges are popular, and this wasn’t allowed for in the base game. Also, had this been done from the start, Sims might have been able to own businesses in Get To Work without having to purchase a separate home lot.
   
2. Rags-to-Riches style challenges are popular. Without a true baseline to start with, they are less challenging and fun and harder to set up.
   
3. Studies show that relative wealth is more rewarding than absolute wealth. So, the enjoyment in seeing Sims succeed isn’t necessarily purely in having your Sims do well, but also having them do well in comparison to their neighbors.
   
4. Some people want to recreate reality, and most people don’t live in mansions with ultra-slick kitchens and electronics.
   
5. Some players are deviant and like to intentionally create dystopia and/or cause their Sims to suffer.
   
6. It’s not something that can be incorporated in later as effectively. Once people have a taste for the luxury goods already in the game, it’s unlikely that many would *choose* to regress to poor quality furniture with poor aesthetics, even if that’s something they felt deprived of initially. However, many people gladly buy upgrades in quality and aesthetics as additional packs.
   
7. Including lots of distressed, low-motive items can make some of the CC makers’ items look not just spectacular, but extra-spectacular in comparison.

Additionally, developers did not include the ability to choose starting monies or assets, which doubly compounded the problems of trying to play the game without money.

So, in light of all this, I’d like to ask developers to please include in the Sims 5 base game:

1. Lower-class neighborhoods and items.
2. A way to start play without purchasing a lot.
3. Sliders for starting monies and/or difficulty. A slider for difficulty might adjust other features such as motive decay rate as well as money.
4. Distressed and derelict furniture, clothing, and other items.

I think this approach would also open up the possibility of exploring and/or adding other types of play such as a real-estate system, banking and loans, or lotteries.

Thanks for reading and reconsidering this aspect of gameplay.

Go for broke!

Great ideas and I like most of them, but make sure to add 'sandbox' play not a quest we have to do.

Skylei

Wow I love your idea! I've always made all my Sims go through Rags to Riches when they became Young Adults cos I found the game more fun and challenging that way. I'd really like the idea of more run-down neighbourhoods - definitely would be more realistic. Hopefully they would consider in future EPs for Sims 4 and Sims 5!!

PopteenPrincess

I don't think we'd have to wait until Sims 5. I'm sure that if they add a town with a good even spread, it'll make up for what you're talking about.
Otherwise, I actually agree. But it seems like a problem that can be fixed if they just make the towns bigger.

friendlysimmers

sorry op but i think its to soon to think about the sims5 and i plan on sticking to sims 4 for quite a while and what will you do if sims5 is like sims4 hum

pepperjax1230

Why would I want TS5 when TS4 just started?

greenXen

Guys, they start working on the next game years ahead of time. If you're not ready to think about Sims 5, fine, but that's not going to stop others.

uzumo

There is a neighborhood in Willow Creek that looks lower-class to me -- the one with the green house called Streamlet Single. That blue trailer Johnny Zest has is a lower-class house.

Hermai

Nothing in this game looks "lower class". Lower class in rich 1st world countries, perhaps.
REAL poor neighbourhoods are IMPOSSIBLE in TS4, and this is one of the things that bother me the most.

TS2 had some really ugly furniture. Some even looked dirty or second hand from the get go. Also some really ugly, torn down wallpapers. And since you could place lots anywhere in your neighbourhood and add decorative stuff around accordingly, you could make different wealth areas in the game look actually real. TS3 the same, you could just make a run down industrial area, put the criminal rabbit hole there (it was useful and a good decoration) and make some poor houses there. When you were playing the household, you could feel it was a poor place because the space around was all ugly and run down. In TS2 AL you get different neighbours or townies passing by depending on the price of your house.
It felt even better when your sims could finally move to the rich neighbourhoods and appreciate wonderful vistas, like the beach or buy a luxury apartment by the cental park.
It FELT real.

Now the neighbourhoods are set in stone. Sure, I can try to make poor houses, but there's a clean, beautiful river running right behind my house and great looking backdrops around. There are lush landscapes all around, and I can't edit anything. Maybe that suits the rich country idea of "poor", but it's definetely not my vision. The idea I had in my mind is impossible to make because everything is so set. Besides, the gameplay itself in TS4 is absolute happyland.

Yet another playstyle that was forgotten in this game. I agree with the OP 100%.