I don't care about story progression. I mean, I've played Strangerville. If that's the most Sims 4 can do, with a handful of tasks to pass to the next part, I'll pass.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
@simgirl1010 , you can also add testing cheats on at userstarup file, so the game will always start with testingscheats on, and you can drag everything (skills, needs, hobbies, all ) even without those mods
Am I the only one who doesn't find Sims 2 needs demanding, like at all? I find Sims 4 needs too easy to manage so I get bored pretty easily. At this point the needs could just not exist.
Yep, I think it hits the sweet spot in terms of difficulty for a Sims game. Needs didn't decay at a ridiculous rate like The Sims 1, accruing wealth felt balanced, rewards actually felt rewarding, etc. Even The Sims 3, which made things a tad easier in ways, was still better than The Sims 4 because the game felt as if it were structured and balanced as a game should be.
And I think having developers with extensive background in all sorts of game genres helps even a title such as The Sims. I know The Sims 3 had included more RPG-like systems in the game which actually helped evolve the series, IMO. If your base game team lead has a background pretty much solely in Facebook gaming, well, your game is going to have the depth and difficulty level of a Facebook game.
Many people want the game directing how the lives of their sims will play out. It is probably the single most complaint people have. It seems the majority find the lack of story progression and hoops to be what is broken in the sims4.
No I wouldn't really say the game directs how the sims lives will play out. I feel like this is a common misundestanding that people make when it comes to that arguement.
You see even back in the sims 2 days, you were the one who decided everything. You were the one deciding what wants and fears your sims will have based on the aspiration you choose, what they will like and dislike based on the personality you give them. The difference is, the game back then took your own choices and supported them. It made sure that when you are not actively controlling a sim, the game controls them for you in a way that suits your choices for this sim (or at least that was the idea).
The Sims 2 almost never made choices for you. You made the choices and the game just played along.
The Sims 4 however does not play along. It doesn't care what personality you give your sims, it will treat them almost always as the same sim. For some people that ends up being super exhausting because you have to constantly remind yourself what personality your sim had because they don't act like it and you have to make believe that they act it.
It is nice that was your experience! I didn't like having to meet the rolled wants or wishes whatever they were called. I just wanted to have my sim do whatever she might want to do minus the rolled whatevers! lol that would happen as one progressed in the game but it took a bit. However everyone's experience is different in how you looked at it
Am I the only one who doesn't find Sims 2 needs demanding, like at all? I find Sims 4 needs too easy to manage so I get bored pretty easily. At this point the needs could just not exist.
Yep, I think it hits the sweet spot in terms of difficulty for a Sims game. Needs didn't decay at a ridiculous rate like The Sims 1, accruing wealth felt balanced, rewards actually felt rewarding, etc. Even The Sims 3, which made things a tad easier in ways, was still better than The Sims 4 because the game felt as if it were structured and balanced as a game should be.
And I think having developers with extensive background in all sorts of game genres helps even a title such as The Sims. I know The Sims 3 had included more RPG-like systems in the game which actually helped evolve the series, IMO. If your base game team lead has a background pretty much solely in Facebook gaming, well, your game is going to have the depth and difficulty level of a Facebook game.
omg I so remember how the sim's needs decayed in sims 1...it was challenging to do anything. I will say it makes me appreciate even more how the playing experience has revolved.
@NationalPokedex Your thoughts about controling players and the Wants and Fears system hit the mark! Feels good to get understood by the opposite playstyle, not just by my fellow "deviants".
I had a response to the dollhouse/blank canvas problematic written, then deleted it as digressing from the topic, but now I think I might post it anyway, beause I think there's some general misconception of what storytelling gameplay actually is. In short: Storytelling =/= Dollhouse story.
For a dollhouse story you control every little thing, the setting, the plot, down to each gesture and reaction of your sims. Pose, add caption, post.
I do that, too (my blog is proof of that), it is fun, but I have telemetry off because I do not want EA to think using Sims 4 to create comics is how I people play the game.
Storytelling gameplay to the contrary is adding context to what happens on screen and setting up a backstory that determines what the sims are allowed to do and what their goals might be. For example my main save's backstory is android (servo) rights. Each newly created family must fit the theme in some way, be it that they want to buy an android for themselves, or maybe they want to buy as many free as they can or they may take up blogging about the topic.
Now when such a blog post gets nominated for an award, that will catch public attention and potentially steer the story into a new direction. Instead of just "Look, my cute sim has made a good blog post and now she's famous, I think I may select a perk now that will help her get even more famous" the interactions gets a deeper meaning. But we storytellers still want the game to participate in our creating of the story.
In the abovementioned blog post example the game deciding whether the android rights blog will get noticed or not is important, because it adds chance and risk. We WANT a solid simulation, we just want it to know its place. Therefore Sims 4’s fill-in-the-blanks approach works better for us than "strong" personalities and storyprogression.
(Personally I see too much of that already, with sentiments and the eco lifestyle phonecalls being the worst offenders, but it’s also small things like every parent scolding their toddler for tossing food while sitting in the highchair, regardless of whether that is true for that parent’s personality (the one time I tried the highchair this was what put me off from using it forever).)
In many respects storytelling playstyle is closer to playing a challenge than to maxmotives lala-land.
Many solution that are fine in normal gameplay just don't work for us, because they'd literally require my sims to overthrow the government. Even "just grow dragonfruit" isn't always an option in a story-driven game.
If one allowed every feature Sims 4 has with no restrictions, the economy would break within the first week of play. In fact, a story that reins in the madness that is money overflow is not just nice for flavour, it is required. Without buying free the occasional android, a job shortage in the backstory and a basic understanding of that people do not come to your house and buy your veggies or paintings if you do not have the proper connections, my sims would all be millionaires.
But in storytelling playstyle we come up with restrictions (and privileges) automatically, in general long before we load the first household in a new save, therefore we often do not notice Sims 4’s balancing problems that will jump a more gameplay oriented player into the face. Or rather, notice them we do, but they are a minor nuisance only. That plum high chair is worse.
(Personally I see too much of that already, with sentiments and the eco lifestyle phonecalls being the worst offenders, but it’s also small things like every parent scolding their toddler for tossing food while sitting in the highchair, regardless of whether that is true for that parent’s personality (the one time I tried the highchair this was what put me off from using it forever).)
I appreciated reading your post, it's always very interesting to see how other people play and what works for them.
The quote above though, to me is an argument FOR stronger personalities, not weaker ones. Maybe childish, good or similar traited sims wouldn't automatically scold the child. Maybe mean, evil, child haters would. It's because traits are so lackluster that your story is ruined by the parent acting in a harsh way every single time. Imagine if the parent was traited good, family orientated. As a result, no automatic child scolding.
Wouldn't this be beneficial to story telling? You pick the parents traits to go along with the story you want to tell and they help you tell the story by acting appropriately.
Storytelling gameplay to the contrary is adding context to what happens on screen and setting up a backstory that determines what the sims are allowed to do and what their goals might be.
We WANT a solid simulation, we just want it to know its place. Therefore Sims 4’s fill-in-the-blanks approach works better for us than "strong" personalities and storyprogression.
In many respects storytelling playstyle is closer to playing a challenge than to maxmotives lala-land.
If one allowed every feature Sims 4 has with no restrictions, the economy would break within the first week of play. In fact, a story that reins in the madness that is money overflow is not just nice for flavour, it is required. Without buying free the occasional android, a job shortage in the backstory and a basic understanding of that people do not come to your house and buy your veggies or paintings if you do not have the proper connections, my sims would all be millionaires.
But in storytelling playstyle we come up with restrictions (and privileges) automatically, in general long before we load the first household in a new save, therefore we often do not notice Sims 4’s balancing problems that will jump a more gameplay oriented player into the face. Or rather, notice them we do, but they are a minor nuisance only. That plum high chair is worse.
Okay, @EnkiSchmidt, I kinda chopped out some of your text to just comment on the parts that stood out to me.
I think people who want a more TS2 style challenge are not saying they want JUST the gameplay. TS2 players are storytellers as well, and give their stories context and rules, as well. They are just more accepting of/more willing to adapt their stories to what the game throws at them (especially if this goes against the rules or backstory they've created). If TS4 has less of these disruptions to storytelling, then the inherent need to adapt the story is gone. That's just the logic of the matter. This is how TS4 benefits storytellers who want to avoid the headache of adapting/fighting against the game. If the game never fights back against you, then you always win.
I think we are both saying similar things, but I just wanted to respond to you since you took the time to read my posts and respond to them.
(Personally I see too much of that already, with sentiments and the eco lifestyle phonecalls being the worst offenders, but it’s also small things like every parent scolding their toddler for tossing food while sitting in the highchair, regardless of whether that is true for that parent’s personality (the one time I tried the highchair this was what put me off from using it forever).)
I appreciated reading your post, it's always very interesting to see how other people play and what works for them.
The quote above though, to me is an argument FOR stronger personalities, not weaker ones. Maybe childish, good or similar traited sims wouldn't automatically scold the child. Maybe mean, evil, child haters would. It's because traits are so lackluster that your story is ruined by the parent acting in a harsh way every single time. Imagine if the parent was traited good, family orientated. As a result, no automatic child scolding.
Wouldn't this be beneficial to story telling? You pick the parents traits to go along with the story you want to tell and they help you tell the story by acting appropriately.
I agree with you. In fact, I think the game would need to have even more nuanced personality traits to allow for TS4 storytellers to not feel like sometimes the game doesn't do what they want it to, or to create a more fully rounded out character that they imagine in their minds. To use the above example of the child, the food, and the high chair, a parent can be childish, good*, or family oriented, but if they're not patient* then that could cause for them to get upset at the child. Or they could be a good, patient person but they're just having a bad day (which then gets into how personality needs to be tied into emotions more effectively, but that's a whole other discussion really).
*I think Good is encompassing too many characteristics into one trait. A good person might be someone who doesn't tell lies. But maybe this liar is also an impatient person. Does this make sense?
The way I see it, gameplay is very important sure, but after Sims 3 I have found ease of playing takes precendence in Sims 4. I have thoroughly enjoyed playing Sims 4, relatively less buggy than any of its predecessors. How many packs are we at now, 38, 39 and my game still runs well even after 3 gb of cc. You can discuss gameplay all you want, if your computer can't handle it gameplay goes out the window.
I quit playing Sims 4 a couple of years ago so I don’t have any experience in this direction, but I constantly read the game has many bugs (as did Sims 3, Sims 2 though?) and I also constantly read about this thing called simulation lag. Which doesn’t sound like a game running well.
It is true Sims 3 is less fun with a low end computer.
I enjoy Sims 4 for the exact same reasons and although I didn't exactly hate Sims 3, it ranks very low on my scale because of the pesky story progression finding ways to get its way even when I turned it off (accelerated aging, sims moving away, inventory clear upon move out, unwanted jobs for moved out sims, nonsensical curfew). When I left it behind in favour of Sims 2 again, I felt relieved. It's definitely not healthy to feel a burden off your back when you stop playing a videogame. Switching between 2 and 4 to the contrary makes me feel slightly sad, because I like both.
That said, I play Sims 2 at the moment and am way more relaxed about aspirations than before. Back when I last played, I still made sure everyone was always in platinium mood, now if they roll out-of character wants and fears that's not on me, but on my sims and they have to live with it. Except for when I want to use an aspiration reward, being in the green "only" is nothing bad. And if they drop too low, a date fixes every dissatisfaction. Also genie lamps, each one equaling three sims getting perma-plat, are pretty common. I got three in a single season (in three different households, of course).
I also age my sims whenever want now... long story short, I brought a lot of "bad" habits with me from Sims 4.
(Both Sims 4 and 2 are modded, I should maybe add.)
I so agree with you...I didn't hate sims3 but I did turn story progression off. What concerns me is that my enjoyment of playing things out according to my own scheme of things seems to not be the popular choice. Many people want the game directing how the lives of their sims will play out. It is probably the single most complaint people have. It seems the majority find the lack of story progression and hoops to be what is broken in the sims4. The primary complaint being that sims lack character and depth and people prefer having the game do that for them unless somehow I am reading it wrong. Lol ....now I remember the genie lamp in sims2. Love that you said you take it less seriously now..good for you! I also love that you brought "bad" habits with you from the sims 4!
Sims 4 is riddled with hoops. When you play a career, when you go on a date: do this, do that. My sim went on a date and the game said it was lousy. How, she became pregnant that night. But I didn’t jump through the hoops.
This is why TS4 is lackluster; there is a split between players who want complete control and players who want random challenges.
If players are given complete control, Sims will be dull personality-wise. But if they are given story progression and randomness, storytellers will become frustrated when things don't go as planned.
Basically, some people want a dollhouse, and others want BitLife.
I think both Sims 2 and 3 are perfect for storytellers, given the fact both games hosted and host lots of stories. I think Sims 4 is perfect for one kind of storyteller: when you come up with a complete story yourself and play that out. I admire people who can do that, but I need the game to give me some directions myself. From a story point of view (I’m not a writer, I can’t come up with stories all by myself) and from a player’s point of view. At the end of the day, even as a storyteller (which I’ve always been for Sims 3 and I tried with Sims 4), I also want it to be fun to play the game. And that only happens I found when the game hands me surprises and ideas. Sims 4 didn’t, and that for me was a problem.
@DaWaterRat I did play a lot of sims 2 back in the days and do really miss some of the game play (Wants&Fears, Aspiration, etc) from it but I also agree on what you are saying, these systems wasn’t perfect. It was very limiting to have just one aspiration (I mean most people have multiple goals/directions at the same time, and some has none aspirations as you say) and it was very limiting that you had to choose one aspiration and then stick to it throughout life (many peoples redefine their values in life throughout life). I can’t speak for other players but I would like to see these systems improved if added to sims 4.
This is an idea that I have had before on how to implement something like an sims 2 Aspiration/wants&Fears system in sims 4 (all photos down below are from the sims 2): ASPIRATION SYSTEM FOR SIMS 4 (Life direction & Quest, Option to Toggle this feature on/off)
Possibility to have up to 3 different directions (sims 2 aspirations) ongoing at the same time. The directions will give your sim positive & negative whims (want & fears), complete and gain / loseSatisfaction points + Meaningfullness points + Self-esteem points. At the end of your sims lifetime, their tombstone will show what direction your sims found as most important (what directions their mostly picked) and what direction your sim was mostly successful in. You can change your sims directions at any time.
Pick 3directions from following categories:
(They can all be from the same category or from different categories): 1. Family 2. Romantic 3. Pleasure 4. Career 5. Money 6. Popularity 7. Knowledge 8. Power 9. Hedonism 10. Goodness 11. Spiritual & Personal development 12. Health & Wellbeing 13. Vanity 14. Evilness 15. Criminality 16. Nature 17. Animals & Wildlife 18. Travels & Experiences 19. Interest & Hobbies 20. Close Relations 21. Creativity 22. Random (you will have the possibility to choose which directions to randomize from if you don´t want all of them)
A sim that goes for a longer period of time without completing any... *Whims will get the moodlet Life feels meh (+1 Bored and Decreasing Meaningfulness points). *Quest wants will get the moodlet No direction in life (+1 Tensed and Decreasing Meaningfulness points).
Quest Want
You will also get an button for a Quest want. Click on this button to get assigned to a quest (the quest is based upon your chosen directions, is time limited and include several tasks).
Fulfil positive/negative whims (want & fears) and gain/loseSatisfaction points + Meaningfullness points + Self-esteem points (This is similar to how it worked in sims 2, @NationalPokedex do explain this very good above)
(Each level will give you the possibility to get specific moodlets every now and then) 1. Prosperous 2. Satisfied 3. Fine 4. Ok 5. Meh 6. Down 7. Distressed
SELF ESTEEM SYSTEM (new system to sims 4, Option to Toggle this feature on/off)
(Each level will give you the possibility to get specific moodlets every now and then) 1. Hubris 2. Proud 3. Good Self-esteem 4. Ok 5. Low Self-Esteem 6. Dissatisfied 7. Self-contempt
But I also seen many interesting ideas from simmers in the community and I do hope that the developers can challenges themself and implement an improved version of these classic features to give some depth and game play to the sims 4. (And to EA: You can do it! *Pep talk* *Pep talk* *Pep talk*)
I don’t quite understand what I bolded in relation to the subject of this topic. You indeed pick one aspiration, but that doesn’t mean that’s all you will do with your sim. They can have other aspirations that you just make up, based on their traits or what they encounter. When I played a homeless sim in TS3, I never intended him to become a highly skilled mixologist, nor did he (I don’t even really remember what lifetime wish I chose for him). It just came along and ‘we’ went for it. I continued and finished that goal because it was fun to do and he could make money that way.
Comments
I don't care about story progression. I mean, I've played Strangerville. If that's the most Sims 4 can do, with a handful of tasks to pass to the next part, I'll pass.
Oh yeah, I think I've used that also.
Yep, I think it hits the sweet spot in terms of difficulty for a Sims game. Needs didn't decay at a ridiculous rate like The Sims 1, accruing wealth felt balanced, rewards actually felt rewarding, etc. Even The Sims 3, which made things a tad easier in ways, was still better than The Sims 4 because the game felt as if it were structured and balanced as a game should be.
And I think having developers with extensive background in all sorts of game genres helps even a title such as The Sims. I know The Sims 3 had included more RPG-like systems in the game which actually helped evolve the series, IMO. If your base game team lead has a background pretty much solely in Facebook gaming, well, your game is going to have the depth and difficulty level of a Facebook game.
It is nice that was your experience! I didn't like having to meet the rolled wants or wishes whatever they were called. I just wanted to have my sim do whatever she might want to do minus the rolled whatevers! lol that would happen as one progressed in the game but it took a bit. However everyone's experience is different in how you looked at it
omg I so remember how the sim's needs decayed in sims 1...it was challenging to do anything. I will say it makes me appreciate even more how the playing experience has revolved.
I had a response to the dollhouse/blank canvas problematic written, then deleted it as digressing from the topic, but now I think I might post it anyway, beause I think there's some general misconception of what storytelling gameplay actually is. In short: Storytelling =/= Dollhouse story.
For a dollhouse story you control every little thing, the setting, the plot, down to each gesture and reaction of your sims. Pose, add caption, post.
I do that, too (my blog is proof of that), it is fun, but I have telemetry off because I do not want EA to think using Sims 4 to create comics is how I people play the game.
Storytelling gameplay to the contrary is adding context to what happens on screen and setting up a backstory that determines what the sims are allowed to do and what their goals might be. For example my main save's backstory is android (servo) rights. Each newly created family must fit the theme in some way, be it that they want to buy an android for themselves, or maybe they want to buy as many free as they can or they may take up blogging about the topic.
Now when such a blog post gets nominated for an award, that will catch public attention and potentially steer the story into a new direction. Instead of just "Look, my cute sim has made a good blog post and now she's famous, I think I may select a perk now that will help her get even more famous" the interactions gets a deeper meaning. But we storytellers still want the game to participate in our creating of the story.
In the abovementioned blog post example the game deciding whether the android rights blog will get noticed or not is important, because it adds chance and risk. We WANT a solid simulation, we just want it to know its place. Therefore Sims 4’s fill-in-the-blanks approach works better for us than "strong" personalities and storyprogression.
(Personally I see too much of that already, with sentiments and the eco lifestyle phonecalls being the worst offenders, but it’s also small things like every parent scolding their toddler for tossing food while sitting in the highchair, regardless of whether that is true for that parent’s personality (the one time I tried the highchair this was what put me off from using it forever).)
In many respects storytelling playstyle is closer to playing a challenge than to maxmotives lala-land.
Many solution that are fine in normal gameplay just don't work for us, because they'd literally require my sims to overthrow the government. Even "just grow dragonfruit" isn't always an option in a story-driven game.
If one allowed every feature Sims 4 has with no restrictions, the economy would break within the first week of play. In fact, a story that reins in the madness that is money overflow is not just nice for flavour, it is required. Without buying free the occasional android, a job shortage in the backstory and a basic understanding of that people do not come to your house and buy your veggies or paintings if you do not have the proper connections, my sims would all be millionaires.
But in storytelling playstyle we come up with restrictions (and privileges) automatically, in general long before we load the first household in a new save, therefore we often do not notice Sims 4’s balancing problems that will jump a more gameplay oriented player into the face. Or rather, notice them we do, but they are a minor nuisance only. That plum high chair is worse.
I appreciated reading your post, it's always very interesting to see how other people play and what works for them.
The quote above though, to me is an argument FOR stronger personalities, not weaker ones. Maybe childish, good or similar traited sims wouldn't automatically scold the child. Maybe mean, evil, child haters would. It's because traits are so lackluster that your story is ruined by the parent acting in a harsh way every single time. Imagine if the parent was traited good, family orientated. As a result, no automatic child scolding.
Wouldn't this be beneficial to story telling? You pick the parents traits to go along with the story you want to tell and they help you tell the story by acting appropriately.
Okay, @EnkiSchmidt, I kinda chopped out some of your text to just comment on the parts that stood out to me.
I think people who want a more TS2 style challenge are not saying they want JUST the gameplay. TS2 players are storytellers as well, and give their stories context and rules, as well. They are just more accepting of/more willing to adapt their stories to what the game throws at them (especially if this goes against the rules or backstory they've created). If TS4 has less of these disruptions to storytelling, then the inherent need to adapt the story is gone. That's just the logic of the matter. This is how TS4 benefits storytellers who want to avoid the headache of adapting/fighting against the game. If the game never fights back against you, then you always win.
I think we are both saying similar things, but I just wanted to respond to you since you took the time to read my posts and respond to them.
I agree with you. In fact, I think the game would need to have even more nuanced personality traits to allow for TS4 storytellers to not feel like sometimes the game doesn't do what they want it to, or to create a more fully rounded out character that they imagine in their minds. To use the above example of the child, the food, and the high chair, a parent can be childish, good*, or family oriented, but if they're not patient* then that could cause for them to get upset at the child. Or they could be a good, patient person but they're just having a bad day (which then gets into how personality needs to be tied into emotions more effectively, but that's a whole other discussion really).
*I think Good is encompassing too many characteristics into one trait. A good person might be someone who doesn't tell lies. But maybe this liar is also an impatient person. Does this make sense?
It is true Sims 3 is less fun with a low end computer.