I reeeeeeaaaally want all the CAS items for TS4 to be unisex. I know a lot of people probably won't be putting their guys in skirts and pigtails or their gals in buzz cuts and cargo shorts, but it'd be really nice to have the option, you know? I really think it'd add a new level of customization to sims that has only been achievable through downloading custom content in previous versions.
If people are worried about it (I'm not lol), maybe a good way to prevent random sims running around town cross dressing all the time would be something like a masculine/feminine personality slider? Then the masculine sims would be less comfortable wearing make-up and skirts and stuff, and the feminine sims would be less comfortable with body hair or baggy clothes... or something.
Just an idea, anyway. Something a little more integrated than just an on/off switch, at least~
If somebody was uncomfortable with what they consider to be cross-dressing, they could make all their men masculine and their women feminine lol
As for my personal opinions, I love making a wide range of different sims, and the ability to make them truly androgynous, or even cross-dressing, would really add a fun element to the game I think.
I also find it a bit weird that we can put make-up on men and even children, but we can't put dresses on males XD
I'm on the fence. On one hand, it make for some interesting gameplay. But on the other hand, I don't want my supposedly straight sims with wife and kids walking around in a dress.
I don't know. If it would make people happy I suppose. I'm an open minded guy, I have gay friends and my aunt is a lesbian. But could you imagine the uproar if this was included, some people would boycott the game because of it. I don't think EA would take that risk.
If you want it in your game, maybe CC is your best bet. I don't think EA would ever include this because of the wide range of people that play this game. In some countries where Sims is played homosexuality is a sin! The country could end up banning the game and there goes a whole load of $$$$$$$ for EA.
A lot of people seem to be confusing homosexuality and cross dressing. Even though they coincide often, they're definitely two completely different things. Plenty of straight people cross dress (though it tends to be women more than men, for obvious societal reasons).
As for the countries in which homosexuality is illegal... There's already gay marriage in the game, and technically every sim is bisexual. Why would more clothing options make anything any worse? If they were going to ban the game for such content, they would've already.
And to people wondering about the meshes: my guess is they'd have to create two meshes for each outfit-- a male one and a female one. It's a little extra work, but nothing outrageous. Things like hair, shoe, and accessory meshes would require little to no alterations. Clothing meshes wouldn't be too difficult for professionals to alter.
There are two main reasons why just relying on custom content isn't really that... well, reliable.
1: Few custom content creators are highly experienced with mesh making, and as you can probably guess, the ones that are and are willing to make cross dressing CAS items are few and far between. As a result, there just aren't that many of that sort of items available, and I don't really see that changing any time soon.
2: I don't know how TS4 will be, but in TS3 you have to re-install all of your custom content every time you update the game or install a new expansion pack. It can get pretty tedious if you have a lot of custom content you use.
I support this idea. While I'm not crazy about men in dresses IRL, I might be tempted to do it in game on occasion and would of course be happy for those who would like it to have it.
I would definitely really love a lot of the male clothing to be made available for females as well as males.
So much of the female stuff is form-fitting or shows stomach or cleavage. Perhaps if women could use the masculine styles, there would be a chance at looser clothing because not every woman wants to show skin. Plus the male sims get better leather and denim jackets, and they get more choice of flat shoes. Female sims' shoes nearly all have heels.
I really really want more unisex clothes in the game, or at least the option to pick clothes from the other gender's wardrobe. We already have some androgynous hairstyles and we can make men wear beautiful make-up, is cross-dressing really that much worse?
And it has nothing to do with homosexuality. You can be one without being the other. It's just clothes! Why would anyone be against freedom of expression?
this would be cool, i used to hate dresses and skirts i wear them more now but i still love guys tops for they are so much easyer to wear. and i would love my sim girls to not have to be like always showing they breasts off which is how i see it for every top highlights them. you dont get any baggy everyday wear or you may i have nto see any they all form fit my female sim which annoys me.
plsu i would love to make a really gay sim (takes after someoen i know, and he loves the idea to before anyone things i am being mean by saying this :P), and have him walk around in high heels and be all ***** in tight tight jeans for girls and a top for girls which would be so fun to play.
this would be cool, i used to hate dresses and skirts i wear them more now but i still love guys tops for they are so much easyer to wear. and i would love my sim girls to not have to be like always showing they breasts off which is how i see it for every top highlights them. you dont get any baggy everyday wear or you may i have nto see any they all form fit my female sim which annoys me.
i would love to make a really gay sim (takes after someoen i know, and he loves the idea to before anyone things i am being mean by saying this :P), and have him walk around in high heels and be all ***** in tight tight jeans for girls and a top for girls which would be so fun to play.
I had a gay colleague who once said he preferred female tshirts because they "fit better" and I sat there thinking "but I prefer looser fits." It was funny I have on occasion bought male t-shirts to avoid things clinging, or to get a specific design.
well as my friend said, girls have things they don't want to show where guys dont have anything so fitting tops fit better where on girls you have to watch it or it is to tight or just looks silly. i got a top once and it fit my breast nice but then just kind of flapped when i walked for ti was to big for me body but my size tops did not fit right over ym breast so annoying. which si why guys clothes are easyer something.
Small thought: Saying "Homosexuality is a sin" is not hate speak. It is a statement of belief. Agree with it or don't but it does not advocate hate or violence. Now some of the things it can be followed up with....
As for the suggestion, it gets an "eh" from me. I wouldn't use it. Or at least I wouldn't use it often enough to matter. It would probably annoy me because I have a tendency to buy a lot of stuff so scrolling through a bunch of women's clothing for my male sim would get tedious. I certainly don't oppose it. Your reasoning for wanting it is sound. But in the end, there are other things that I would want more.
Small thought: Saying "Homosexuality is a sin" is not hate speak. It is a statement of belief. Agree with it or don't but it does not advocate hate or violence. Now some of the things it can be followed up with....
I don't see the logic of that, since that could also be used to defend such statements as "a woman speaking is a sin" or "being Jewish is a sin" (the former of which is still causing problems and the latter of which was the logic behind the Inquisition).
Small thought: Saying "Homosexuality is a sin" is not hate speak. It is a statement of belief. Agree with it or don't but it does not advocate hate or violence. Now some of the things it can be followed up with....
I don't see the logic of that, since that could also be used to defend such statements as "a woman speaking is a sin"
I read a funny story about soemthing like that. It was one of many short stories by Anne of Green Gables author. A church had problems finding a minster and this one time they assigned a woman minster for several sundays from then. The maleso f the church didn't think woman should be at the puplit and as a result the women of the church who didn most of the work (cleanning,etc) went on 'strike' and the church became a mess and it went on for three weeks because when husbands/fathers tried to aruge their daughters/wives back to work..the women said "If a woman isn't fit to speak in the church, a woman isn't fit to work for the church." But the men gave in.
Saying "I think homosexuality is a sin." is just freedom of expression/speech and freedom of religion. There are no slurs used in the statement. It does not advocate violence or any sort of action.
Saying "I think homosexuality is a sin." is just freedom of expression/speech and freedom of religion. There are no slurs used in the statement. It does not advocate violence or any sort of action.
But, it does judge a person's lifestyle as lesser and imply, through its wording, that they are lesser. Plus, that statement is used to justify all kinds of horrible acts.
After all, once you classify someone as evil, you really aren't doing anything wrong by trying to drive them away or even torturing them for what they are, are you? They're evil. And an easy way to classify someone as evil is to classify some part of them as evil.
See, that statement itself is the slippery-slope that so many slide down in seeking out a reason to persecute homosexuality. It's a justification for what they are doing. Just like being Jewish being evil was a justification for the Inquisition and, later, the Holocaust. The mere act of stating it is inherently evil because, by stating it, a person is trying to justify their own hatred and make it sound more reasonable.
Now, by your logic, I could say "being a woman is a sin" and it would be simply freedom of speech. Personally, I don't think that, but that doesn't stop other people from stating it.
Saying "I think homosexuality is a sin." is just freedom of expression/speech and freedom of religion. There are no slurs used in the statement. It does not advocate violence or any sort of action.
But, it does judge a person's lifestyle as lesser and imply, through its wording, that they are lesser. Plus, that statement is used to justify all kinds of horrible acts.
After all, once you classify someone as evil, you really aren't doing anything wrong by trying to drive them away or even torturing them for what they are, are you? They're evil. And an easy way to classify someone as evil is to classify some part of them as evil.
See, that statement itself is the slippery-slope that so many slide down in seeking out a reason to persecute homosexuality. It's a justification for what they are doing. Just like being Jewish being evil was a justification for the Inquisition and, later, the Holocaust. The mere act of stating it is inherently evil because, by stating it, a person is trying to justify their own hatred and make it sound more reasonable.
Now, by your logic, I could say "being a woman is a sin" and it would be simply freedom of speech. Personally, I don't think that, but that doesn't stop other people from stating it.
You can say "Being a woman is a sin". That is not hate speech. What you can't do is say "Being a woman is a sin. All women should be killed." That's hate speech.
There is a huge difference between believing homosexuality is a sin and advocating the removal of homosexuals from society.
It's the whole "Your right to free speech ends at the tip of my nose." thing. You can believe it. You can say it. You cannot act on it.
The slippery slope is here that by trying to control hate speech, you end up trying to control religious beliefs. Telling people what they're allowed to believe is a form of intolerance as well.
Panda that option isn't really reible-its at ktoJ0's post:
"There are two main reasons why just relying on custom content isn't really that... well, reliable.
1: Few custom content creators are highly experienced with mesh making, and as you can probably guess, the ones that are and are willing to make cross dressing CAS items are few and far between. As a result, there just aren't that many of that sort of items available, and I don't really see that changing any time soon.
2: I don't know how TS4 will be, but in TS3 you have to re-install all of your custom content every time you update the game or install a new expansion pack. It can get pretty tedious if you have a lot of custom content you use"
it doesn't really make any sense to some of us that the 'children' mesh for boys and girls are the same and yet the man and woman's mesh aren't. I mean you can have a girl dress up as a prince and boy dress up as a princess..
You can say "Being a woman is a sin". That is not hate speech. What you can't do is say "Being a woman is a sin. All women should be killed." That's hate speech.
There is a huge difference between believing homosexuality is a sin and advocating the removal of homosexuals from society.
It's the whole "Your right to free speech ends at the tip of my nose." thing. You can believe it. You can say it. You cannot act on it.
The slippery slope is here that by trying to control hate speech, you end up trying to control religious beliefs. Telling people what they're allowed to believe is a form of intolerance as well.
And the funny thing is, psychiatry and psychology both spend a large portion of their time telling people what they are allowed to believe.
One thing I have learned over the years of dealing with people who say things like that is they don't actually believe it; the ones who DO actually believe it tend to keep their mouths shut because they also view it as none of their business to interfere.
Instead, usually, the ones who do say it are justifying their actions to themselves; they only know that someone is different in a way they dislike. You dig into them enough, you quickly discover it's just a convenient excuse and they'll gladly reach for another when that one is no longer working.
Also, your argument on freedom of speech has one problem: Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences for what you say. Technically, saying all women should be killed is freedom of speech; that doesn't stop it from having negative consequences any more than walking into a biker bar and accusing all bikers of being sissies lacks consequences. You are free to say what you like... but you must also accept the consequences of what you say. Most freedom of speech advocates do not understand that concept.
As for advocating removing homosexuals from society: They don't have to say it openly. They just have to say it is a sin and, later, advocate removing all sin from society. Both of those statements are perfectly innocent used separate... but think of the implications of someone who says both of them. And that's the other problem: I've never met someone who said homosexuality is a sin that didn't advocate removing all sin from society. They honestly believe people should live in a sinless society.
But, then, we're arguing about something that doesn't even apply to this website anyway; legally, all protections of freedom of speech do not apply here. So, while it is a nice philosophical debate, it really doesn't have much to do with the game :P
In any case, if you wish to agree to disagree, then say so at the end of your next post. Because I provided the long statement up about as part of our discussion, it would be hypocritical of me to not accept you providing a reply to what I have said before accepting.
.The homosexuals have the right to defend their point of view.
.But ppl that doesnt agree with it also have the right of defend their point of view.
Its not a perfect system, nor there are perfect arguments,it never existed because humankind is not a perfect race. I dont agree with Homosexualims, your arguments matter nothing to me, but i dont want a homosexual do be killed or related stuff.If you want to change the world, plz, i dont think that yelling at the **** Game Forun will solve it,its just pointless.
Comments
If people are worried about it (I'm not lol), maybe a good way to prevent random sims running around town cross dressing all the time would be something like a masculine/feminine personality slider? Then the masculine sims would be less comfortable wearing make-up and skirts and stuff, and the feminine sims would be less comfortable with body hair or baggy clothes... or something.
Just an idea, anyway. Something a little more integrated than just an on/off switch, at least~
If somebody was uncomfortable with what they consider to be cross-dressing, they could make all their men masculine and their women feminine lol
As for my personal opinions, I love making a wide range of different sims, and the ability to make them truly androgynous, or even cross-dressing, would really add a fun element to the game I think.
I also find it a bit weird that we can put make-up on men and even children, but we can't put dresses on males XD
I don't know. If it would make people happy I suppose. I'm an open minded guy, I have gay friends and my aunt is a lesbian. But could you imagine the uproar if this was included, some people would boycott the game because of it. I don't think EA would take that risk.
If you want it in your game, maybe CC is your best bet. I don't think EA would ever include this because of the wide range of people that play this game. In some countries where Sims is played homosexuality is a sin! The country could end up banning the game and there goes a whole load of $$$$$$$ for EA.
As for the countries in which homosexuality is illegal... There's already gay marriage in the game, and technically every sim is bisexual. Why would more clothing options make anything any worse? If they were going to ban the game for such content, they would've already.
And to people wondering about the meshes: my guess is they'd have to create two meshes for each outfit-- a male one and a female one. It's a little extra work, but nothing outrageous. Things like hair, shoe, and accessory meshes would require little to no alterations. Clothing meshes wouldn't be too difficult for professionals to alter.
There are two main reasons why just relying on custom content isn't really that... well, reliable.
1: Few custom content creators are highly experienced with mesh making, and as you can probably guess, the ones that are and are willing to make cross dressing CAS items are few and far between. As a result, there just aren't that many of that sort of items available, and I don't really see that changing any time soon.
2: I don't know how TS4 will be, but in TS3 you have to re-install all of your custom content every time you update the game or install a new expansion pack. It can get pretty tedious if you have a lot of custom content you use.
I would definitely really love a lot of the male clothing to be made available for females as well as males.
So much of the female stuff is form-fitting or shows stomach or cleavage. Perhaps if women could use the masculine styles, there would be a chance at looser clothing because not every woman wants to show skin. Plus the male sims get better leather and denim jackets, and they get more choice of flat shoes. Female sims' shoes nearly all have heels.
And it has nothing to do with homosexuality. You can be one without being the other. It's just clothes! Why would anyone be against freedom of expression?
plsu i would love to make a really gay sim (takes after someoen i know, and he loves the idea to before anyone things i am being mean by saying this :P), and have him walk around in high heels and be all ***** in tight tight jeans for girls and a top for girls which would be so fun to play.
I had a gay colleague who once said he preferred female tshirts because they "fit better" and I sat there thinking "but I prefer looser fits." It was funny
As for the suggestion, it gets an "eh" from me. I wouldn't use it. Or at least I wouldn't use it often enough to matter. It would probably annoy me because I have a tendency to buy a lot of stuff so scrolling through a bunch of women's clothing for my male sim would get tedious. I certainly don't oppose it. Your reasoning for wanting it is sound. But in the end, there are other things that I would want more.
I don't see the logic of that, since that could also be used to defend such statements as "a woman speaking is a sin" or "being Jewish is a sin" (the former of which is still causing problems and the latter of which was the logic behind the Inquisition).
I read a funny story about soemthing like that. It was one of many short stories by Anne of Green Gables author. A church had problems finding a minster and this one time they assigned a woman minster for several sundays from then. The maleso f the church didn't think woman should be at the puplit and as a result the women of the church who didn most of the work (cleanning,etc) went on 'strike' and the church became a mess and it went on for three weeks because when husbands/fathers tried to aruge their daughters/wives back to work..the women said "If a woman isn't fit to speak in the church, a woman isn't fit to work for the church." But the men gave in.
But, it does judge a person's lifestyle as lesser and imply, through its wording, that they are lesser. Plus, that statement is used to justify all kinds of horrible acts.
After all, once you classify someone as evil, you really aren't doing anything wrong by trying to drive them away or even torturing them for what they are, are you? They're evil. And an easy way to classify someone as evil is to classify some part of them as evil.
See, that statement itself is the slippery-slope that so many slide down in seeking out a reason to persecute homosexuality. It's a justification for what they are doing. Just like being Jewish being evil was a justification for the Inquisition and, later, the Holocaust. The mere act of stating it is inherently evil because, by stating it, a person is trying to justify their own hatred and make it sound more reasonable.
Now, by your logic, I could say "being a woman is a sin" and it would be simply freedom of speech. Personally, I don't think that, but that doesn't stop other people from stating it.
I really would NOT like this at all. Not even to make Willam.
Agreed. :]
There is a huge difference between believing homosexuality is a sin and advocating the removal of homosexuals from society.
It's the whole "Your right to free speech ends at the tip of my nose." thing. You can believe it. You can say it. You cannot act on it.
The slippery slope is here that by trying to control hate speech, you end up trying to control religious beliefs. Telling people what they're allowed to believe is a form of intolerance as well.
"There are two main reasons why just relying on custom content isn't really that... well, reliable.
1: Few custom content creators are highly experienced with mesh making, and as you can probably guess, the ones that are and are willing to make cross dressing CAS items are few and far between. As a result, there just aren't that many of that sort of items available, and I don't really see that changing any time soon.
2: I don't know how TS4 will be, but in TS3 you have to re-install all of your custom content every time you update the game or install a new expansion pack. It can get pretty tedious if you have a lot of custom content you use"
And the funny thing is, psychiatry and psychology both spend a large portion of their time telling people what they are allowed to believe.
One thing I have learned over the years of dealing with people who say things like that is they don't actually believe it; the ones who DO actually believe it tend to keep their mouths shut because they also view it as none of their business to interfere.
Instead, usually, the ones who do say it are justifying their actions to themselves; they only know that someone is different in a way they dislike. You dig into them enough, you quickly discover it's just a convenient excuse and they'll gladly reach for another when that one is no longer working.
Also, your argument on freedom of speech has one problem: Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences for what you say. Technically, saying all women should be killed is freedom of speech; that doesn't stop it from having negative consequences any more than walking into a biker bar and accusing all bikers of being sissies lacks consequences. You are free to say what you like... but you must also accept the consequences of what you say. Most freedom of speech advocates do not understand that concept.
As for advocating removing homosexuals from society: They don't have to say it openly. They just have to say it is a sin and, later, advocate removing all sin from society. Both of those statements are perfectly innocent used separate... but think of the implications of someone who says both of them. And that's the other problem: I've never met someone who said homosexuality is a sin that didn't advocate removing all sin from society. They honestly believe people should live in a sinless society.
But, then, we're arguing about something that doesn't even apply to this website anyway; legally, all protections of freedom of speech do not apply here. So, while it is a nice philosophical debate, it really doesn't have much to do with the game :P
In any case, if you wish to agree to disagree, then say so at the end of your next post. Because I provided the long statement up about as part of our discussion, it would be hypocritical of me to not accept you providing a reply to what I have said before accepting.
.But ppl that doesnt agree with it also have the right of defend their point of view.
Its not a perfect system, nor there are perfect arguments,it never existed because humankind is not a perfect race. I dont agree with Homosexualims, your arguments matter nothing to me, but i dont want a homosexual do be killed or related stuff.If you want to change the world, plz, i dont think that yelling at the **** Game Forun will solve it,its just pointless.