Are there no builders that also thoroughly play in their creations? «1234567…13...Next Go

Beardedgeek

(yes, not a 100% honest question BUT)

I find that many of the famous builders (not going to name names here! Please!) that I used to like are now basically only building, which means they make lots that look great and functions horribly. Stair bug aside (when a loft can't be accessed because the stairs have stopped working after a patch) almost all non-Maxis community lots are too crowded, too narrow even when MOO isn't breaking things.

This is especially noticeable on Restaurants (I have already been ranting about those, before) but there is a reason why no Maxis builds have a more narrow space than two squares around a table, a bar, or a ping pong table or. Or at least two different ways to pass around a table.

I have found myself (who is not a builder and stink at it) have to always go into build mode on community lots to clean up: Delete at least two tables in bars an restaurants to allow flow of NPC / Townies, remove double appliances like a jukebox AND a wall mounted loudspeaker in the same room? Why?)

Sorry, I had to rant a bit. But is there anyone but James who seem to genuinely use everything he or she uploads? All his things are not to my liking, but at least they always, always, work.

haneul

I don't think there's enough time for most builders to build many amazing things and use them all in-game. It's too much work. The most prolific/famous builders seem to be putting something out multiple times a week (almost everyday) because the YouTube algorithm is unforgiving, so at most they'll probably only do minimal play testing.

I think you have to search for smaller creators with fewer builds if you want them to work flawlessly. They will be harder to find because neither YT nor the gallery rewards that. But it really shouldn't take much to fix mistakes or get a build optimized for your machine.

ETA: My computer also has a high tolerance for nonsense in builds so clutter and narrow paths don't bother me. A lot of the builders could be on machines like mine where we can push the limits of the game and generally be fine. The AI processes fast enough to where the Sims can navigate intricate pathing okay.

Nate_Whiplash1

I can't speak for other builders (I don't know what their reasons are), but I will never build something that I don't plan on using

haneul

Nate_Whiplash1 wrote: »

I can't speak for other builders (I don't know what their reasons are), but I will never build something that I don't plan on using

Same, but in my case that makes my builds unusable for others. I can't justify spending time on something I won't play and all the stuff I play is CC-heavy, MOO, huge lots... it's what people complain about.

Onverser

I feel like majority of popular builders now just make things for looks rather than function. I see so many builds that are totally unplayable as they put so much stuff that you can barely even see the rooms

Pamtastic72

Nate_Whiplash1 wrote: »

I can't speak for other builders (I don't know what their reasons are), but I will never build something that I don't plan on using

Same, I play test most of my stuff and rarely use MOO and even then I generally restrict it to non consequential decor. Lately I have really been enjoying doing redecorating in Maxis lots. I just uploaded my take on Chez Llama, & The Solar Flare Lounge. I stayed true to the Maxis principals you mentioned OP but just tried to put a fresh spin on them.

Restaurants are particularly tricky. You cannot stuff them with tables and clutter. I often wonder when I see the complaints about Dine Out being broken if it’s because people are building or downloading restaurants that are full of pathing issues.

Beardedgeek

Onverser wrote: »

I feel like majority of popular builders now just make things for looks rather than function. I see so many builds that are totally unplayable as they put so much stuff that you can barely even see the rooms

I am not even talking about Clutter, that's a thing in itself but I am talking about basic pathfinding and, quite frankly, a lack of understanding how the game works. Basic things that still are made by seasoned builders, who should have played the game at some point, not people uploading their first stuff.

Two bars? No, that. does. not. work.
You will only get one bartender, period.

Same with Two DJ booths?
No, only one of them will be active. And you have no control over which one unless one (like the unmodded nightclub in Windenburg) one of them is in a club area behind a locked door.

A busy room connected to another busy room via a ONE SQUARE wide space? ...what? WHY??

Tables that yes, you can reach and walk around fine but are so close to the café counter that the line forming up will be twice as bad because the tables stand too close to it?

No way for the waiter to get from the kitchen to your table without looping around the building outside?

No seating inside in the restaurant built for a specific lot in Newcrest and released after Seasons came out? What are you trying to do? Freeze everyone in the entire game to death?

And so on.
Again, basic mistakes that someone who has played the game more than a month should not do.

texxx78

I used to download a lot of builds from the gallery. Nowadays i only use the builds that come with the game. So many beautiful builds in the gallery but so heavy and unplayable...

Beardedgeek

telmarina wrote: »

I used to download a lot of builds from the gallery. Nowadays i only use the builds that come with the game. So many beautiful builds in the gallery but so heavy and unplayable...

I find myself more and more do simple re-arranges of pre-made builds rather than to download builds these days. Squeeze a second toilet in, optimize workout machines so you can fit a wall climber in, and so on.

To be 100% honest most custom built downloads I still use, and place in every save game I have, are from 2018 or older. Newer builds than 2018 are often full of these kinds of problems for some reason.

NightlyCoffee

I don't enjoy building just to build. I enjoy it when I know I'm going to use it. I like to build homes for my families and venues for them to visit, and everything I build I prioritize gameplay. I do like using MOO, but only for decorations that won't intrude gameplay. Everything I build is for my personal use and I always play with them in game before I decide if I want to share it or not.

InuMiroLover

Nate_Whiplash1 wrote: »

I can't speak for other builders (I don't know what their reasons are), but I will never build something that I don't plan on using

Same. I dont upload to the gallery much, but when I do they're always lots that I use in-game. If my sims can use them without issue, then other people's sims can use them as well. I like MOO. Really adds some personality to your lot and I love that its there. But you know what else starts with the letter "M"? Moderation. If your lot has more MOO than actual use, then what's the point? Your sim is just going to stand there with a blank look on its face since it doesnt know where the front door is and it doesnt know what to do! It can be as beautiful a house as humanely possible, but Im not using it if my sim cant use it.

haneul

Beardedgeek wrote: »

Onverser wrote: »

I feel like majority of popular builders now just make things for looks rather than function. I see so many builds that are totally unplayable as they put so much stuff that you can barely even see the rooms

I am not even talking about Clutter, that's a thing in itself but I am talking about basic pathfinding and, quite frankly, a lack of understanding how the game works. Basic things that still are made by seasoned builders, who should have played the game at some point, not people uploading their first stuff.

Two bars? No, that. does. not. work.
You will only get one bartender, period.

Same with Two DJ booths?
No, only one of them will be active. And you have no control over which one unless one (like the unmodded nightclub in Windenburg) one of them is in a club area behind a locked door.

A busy room connected to another busy room via a ONE SQUARE wide space? ...what? WHY??

Tables that yes, you can reach and walk around fine but are so close to the café counter that the line forming up will be twice as bad because the tables stand too close to it?

No way for the waiter to get from the kitchen to your table without looping around the building outside?

No seating inside in the restaurant built for a specific lot in Newcrest and released after Seasons came out? What are you trying to do? Freeze everyone in the entire game to death?

And so on.
Again, basic mistakes that someone who has played the game more than a month should not do.

Yeah, it sounds like you're a very practical player. I can see how annoying it must be. It seems like you get a lot of use out of your community lots too. I think people really aren't thinking that deeply when they build and just make sure it's not super broken when uploaded.

I also really think the problem is the algorithms. To get traction as a builder you have to either build a ton of things (meaning you don't play much because there's not enough time, so you don't notice practical things that make gameplay easier) or you build elaborate/impractical things that aren't useful anyway. Because the thumbnails/pictures also drive clicks.

Practical builds tend not to look as interesting so they're not going to be as popular, especially if they're optimized for pathing. People also have to play a certain way to notice/care about things like two bars and winter outdoor seating. Like I'm not bothered by an unoccupied DJ booth/two booths in a club.

And I have two speakers in a room in my sims house because it looks better. But they only turn on one at a time.

Beardedgeek

haneul wrote: »

Beardedgeek wrote: »

Onverser wrote: »

I feel like majority of popular builders now just make things for looks rather than function. I see so many builds that are totally unplayable as they put so much stuff that you can barely even see the rooms

I am not even talking about Clutter, that's a thing in itself but I am talking about basic pathfinding and, quite frankly, a lack of understanding how the game works. Basic things that still are made by seasoned builders, who should have played the game at some point, not people uploading their first stuff.

Two bars? No, that. does. not. work.
You will only get one bartender, period.

Same with Two DJ booths?
No, only one of them will be active. And you have no control over which one unless one (like the unmodded nightclub in Windenburg) one of them is in a club area behind a locked door.

A busy room connected to another busy room via a ONE SQUARE wide space? ...what? WHY??

Tables that yes, you can reach and walk around fine but are so close to the café counter that the line forming up will be twice as bad because the tables stand too close to it?

No way for the waiter to get from the kitchen to your table without looping around the building outside?

No seating inside in the restaurant built for a specific lot in Newcrest and released after Seasons came out? What are you trying to do? Freeze everyone in the entire game to death?

And so on.
Again, basic mistakes that someone who has played the game more than a month should not do.

Yeah, it sounds like you're a very practical player. I can see how annoying it must be. It seems like you get a lot of use out of your community lots too. I think people really aren't thinking that deeply when they build and just make sure it's not super broken when uploaded.

I also really think the problem is the algorithms. To get traction as a builder you have to either build a ton of things (meaning you don't play much because there's not enough time, so you don't notice practical things that make gameplay easier) or you build elaborate/impractical things that aren't useful anyway. Because the thumbnails/pictures also drive clicks.

Practical builds tend not to look as interesting so they're not going to be as popular, especially if they're optimized for pathing. People also have to play a certain way to notice/care about things like two bars and winter outdoor seating. Like I'm not bothered by an unoccupied DJ booth/two booths in a club.

And I have two speakers in a room in my sims house because it looks better. But they only turn on one at a time.

The 'tube hates its users, that's for sure.

I am a very practical player because I spend about 40% of my game on community lots. I tend to play couples or single sims which means lots of partying, study sessions (when at university) and dates. I am one of those people who LIKES taking my Sims to restaurants, providing they are built correctly. I usually have my Student sims go either to the library or the local bar to do homework, not sit in their dorms. Because that's what I would do as a student.

And so on-

MDianaSims

While I generally build more than I play, and often build things I may not personally use. I do keep in mind those things you mention. And I play test specifically those parts where I expect issues to arise, even though I rarely use MOO. I probably miss some things though.
For example the outdoor restaurant, ever since seasons I make sure it has at least a roof and patio heaters. I generally test restaurants more extensively than other lots because they're more likely to have routing issues.
Or if I build a family friendly lot, there are facilities for toddlers and preferably near the entrance, so they can get there without being carried.
I also always add a thermostat to community lots with buildings. Several toilets, something where they can eat, etc. And a woohoo spot, you never know where your sim gets asked in a date 😉
Recently I've also been more mindful of the 20 sim limit a lot has. No need to have 15 tables at a restaurant when no more than 8 will ever be occupied at the same time.

Simmingal

Nate_Whiplash1 wrote: »

I can't speak for other builders (I don't know what their reasons are), but I will never build something that I don't plan on using

this.

but also sometimes lots don't quite function how i planned to use them

for example if i chose wrong lot type for my build that doesnt have actual lot type in game and it overcrowds the build

set tea house as library before cause i thought visiting sims would shut up but turns out that was also too crowded which i noticed after upload and idk what community lot type would work and ye._.

also like if your sims are famous you might have problems fitting into my builds because turns out all those paparazzi get really into your face unless you make huge building *sighs*

i guess its quite realistic annoyance tho

also indeed some builders will have better computers to run more things on their lots
like i used to play on computer that didn't run maxis cafe (0 edit) but now i have computer that can run detailed medieval castle on ultra so...

yeah things are complicated.

i find popular builders usually have more detailed complex builds though so it could help to search for less popular builders

haneul

MDianaSims wrote: »

While I generally build more than I play, and often build things I may not personally use. I do keep in mind those things you mention. And I play test specifically those parts where I expect issues to arise, even though I rarely use MOO. I probably miss some things though.
For example the outdoor restaurant, ever since seasons I make sure it has at least a roof and patio heaters. I generally test restaurants more extensively than other lots because they're more likely to have routing issues.
Or if I build a family friendly lot, there are facilities for toddlers and preferably near the entrance, so they can get there without being carried.
I also always add a thermostat to community lots with buildings. Several toilets, something where they can eat, etc. And a woohoo spot, you never know where your sim gets asked in a date 😉
Recently I've also been more mindful of the 20 sim limit a lot has. No need to have 15 tables at a restaurant when no more than 8 will ever be occupied at the same time.

There can be more than 20 sims on a lot. I have more than that fairly often, so I think it's fine that you weren't particularly mindful of that. You should share your gallery ID, if you don't mind, so that people who like thoughtful builds that work can find you.

rudolpha

Agree on the fact so many lots I download end up being unplayable without extensive input from myself but what I don't get is why they get so many likes/loves from others.

texxx78

It'ld be nice if we could make a list with gallery IDs of the builders that playtest their builds. I'ld love to start downloading from the gallery again

Auroraskies

I think that job should be done by EA. The gallery is a selling point for the game, and is accessed through buying it, as opposed to Youtube. The search function and what is rewarded by the EA representatives should take actual gameplay into account.

Edit: Here are the new criterias for a so called 'Maxis nomination'; the part about moo is the same as before.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/985556/the-maxis-curation-guide

I have despite that found several Maxis nominated builds that requires moo to be placed; and had to edit a couple extensibly, to make them functional. I have a midrange gaming computer, but am talking about lack of features to make is possible for sims to move around.

BreeNilla

Can't say for sure because the ones I watch usually test whether or not something is too close to a wall to be used or if sims can walk around certain objects.

A lot of people have more fun building rather than playing, and that's okay. TS4 has been focusing heavily on build mode for the last few years because that's where it's strongest. It's become a building simulator to a lot of people rather than a life simulator.

That said, player builds can be used as a sort of base for you to change up to fit your playstyle or needs. Some people do just create nice builds without thinking about functionality. I think that's okay.

I'm not a builder btw, I'm absolute garbo at it

Kerrigan

I tend to make a note in the comments on houses that aren't playable because it does happen a lot. Houses that haven't been play tested are like fancy restaurants with terrible food. It's just disappointing. Some of them aren't even salvageable. I also dislike when someone posts a really excellent looking Sim and when I download it, the skills are all max'd out.

Edit: For houses, i've generally noticed that unplayable houses tend to be extremely expensive builds so it's a red flag to me if a house is several hundred thousand simoleans.

Auroraskies

Here are the specifications EA says the game can be played on:
https://www.ea.com/games/the-sims/the-sims-4/pc/system-requirements

I am not saying they are enough, and my computer is better than that; but after being approved for TS4 by one of those Heroes in the Technical section on AHQ, I still have problems with the game.

If EA thinks the low recommended specifications are enough to sell the game on, they should make sure the approved builds on the gallery is geared in the same direction; and make it easier in the search system to find builds appropriate for actual gameplay.

Ellupelluellu

Restaurants! UGH.. I have downloaded so many with full of moo and not functioning.
(I have not had any problems with other lot types)

So I just ended up editing EAxis made ones , not so pretty but working.

Beardedgeek

Ellupelluellu wrote: »

Restaurants! UGH.. I have downloaded so many with full of moo and not functioning.
(I have not had any problems with other lot types)

So I just ended up editing EAxis made ones , not so pretty but working.

Said it before, but there are a few key points:

If you have more than 5 tables, always have a second cooking unit. It also doubles most of your other staff.

Almost always there are too many tables. Even just deleting ONE, and spreading the others out sliiightly usually improves things alot.

Make 🐸🐸🐸🐸 sure the builder hasn't done anything stupid, like putting a TV into a spot that will make Sims congregate around it, or even worse, try to get to it and get stuck.

Don't put the greeter station too close to the door. leave 3 or preferably 4 sqares between door and greeter. Oh and no need to have more than one, just like bars there will always only be one greeter

ANd of course, make sure there are enough seating inside so it can be used during winter.

WaytoomanyUIDs

@Beardedgeek That bit about having 2 cooking stations if more than 5 table is incredibly handy to know. I don't play with restaurants, but your suggestions make me want to have a try.