I am so sorry Russians simmers. I hope there is a way for you to get the pack one way or another. I just fear the way they ignored the Japanese simmers who were fighting to keep their bowing to the shrines, I’m sure they will do the same to the Russian simmers. Given the evidence of what Russian simmers have been claiming, I just feel all of this was a publicity stunt on The Sims to gain brownie points.
This is a very tough situation and one of scenarios in which I don't think there's really any "right" answer. There is certainly a wrong answer and it is the Russian government and anti-LGBTQ+ laws that is undoubtedly in the wrong in this case.
But as for what EA and the Sims team should do? I honestly don't know. As it was already mentioned in this thread, they are quite frankly caught inbetween two very difficult, controversial decisions in which there are no clear winners.
Should they give in and change the cover art? - They could, but would likely end up facing backlash for siding with the Russian government and giving into h*mophobic laws. Even if it were only the cover art for Russia and nowhere else. Although some people have said they don't think people could care that much about cover art even if it doesn't affect them personally... surely there are a few people who would think the changing of cover art for Russia alone, is all about them trying to get more sales and would claim they "don't care" about LGBTQ+ people as much as they claim. I remember the controversy from Snowy Escape over an animation that signified different things to different countries. EA ended up changing it due to what the bowing at the shrine represented to Korean simmers, and as a result ended up facing backlash from Japanese simmers. While the situations themselves are not comparable, I only bring it up as an example of how people tend to react when things like this are removed or changed.
But on the other hand, EA and the Sims team refusing to change the cover art just because of the Russian government's stance on LGBTQ+ content in a way does solidify their stance on the matter and imply that they stand with the LGBTQ+ community. And by choosing not to change things so that the gamepack can be sold without any issue in Russia, are essentially losing out on funds they would have had otherwise had they just changed the cover. But at the same time, they are unintentionally excluding Russian simmers, including those who are a part of the LGBTQ+ community. I say unintentionally, because I don't feel excluding them was done with any prior intent, much less a malicious one. But at the same time, I can understand why Russian simmers, especially LGBTQ+ Russian simmers would feel like they're being abandoned by EA.
EA and the Sims team are in a very difficult position here and regardless of what decision they take, they will likely receive backlash from one group or the other. It's very much a lose-lose situation in which there is no winning from either side (the sides being EA and Russian Simmers.) I do emphasize with those that this decision affects and I hope that Russian players can find some way to get the pack, but I am hesitant to call EA the bad guy in this situation and have to believe this wasn't a decision that was made lightly.
I mean ppl keep mentioning EA but they clarified that the sims team made the decision not EA. Ruskii who worked on the pack but left EA recently clarified more about the situation on her personal Twitter. I think because she doesn't work there anymore she can say whtv and the current team probably can't say anything yet.
I think what they should do is give free codes to Russian simmers. Idk if that would work. Maybe it could be given out like a free pack like that holiday pack. Idk if they would be able to do that since maybe ppl could use a VPN and set it to Russia to get the pack for free. Either way I hope they can find a way to get the pack to Russian and Ukrainian simmers even if they can't sell it there. There is really no loss for them to give it to them for free since they can't buy it anyway.
This is a very tough situation and one of scenarios in which I don't think there's really any "right" answer. There is certainly a wrong answer and it is the Russian government and anti-LGBTQ+ laws that is undoubtedly in the wrong in this case.
But as for what EA and the Sims team should do? I honestly don't know. As it was already mentioned in this thread, they are quite frankly caught inbetween two very difficult, controversial decisions in which there are no clear winners.
Should they give in and change the cover art? - They could, but would likely end up facing backlash for siding with the Russian government and giving into h*mophobic laws. Even if it were only the cover art for Russia and nowhere else. Although some people have said they don't think people could care that much about cover art even if it doesn't affect them personally... surely there are a few people who would think the changing of cover art for Russia alone, is all about them trying to get more sales and would claim they "don't care" about LGBTQ+ people as much as they claim. I remember the controversy from Snowy Escape over an animation that signified different things to different countries. EA ended up changing it due to what the bowing at the shrine represented to Korean simmers, and as a result ended up facing backlash from Japanese simmers. While the situations themselves are not comparable, I only bring it up as an example of how people tend to react when things like this are removed or changed.
But on the other hand, EA and the Sims team refusing to change the cover art just because of the Russian government's stance on LGBTQ+ content in a way does solidify their stance on the matter and imply that they stand with the LGBTQ+ community. And by choosing not to change things so that the gamepack can be sold without any issue in Russia, are essentially losing out on funds they would have had otherwise had they just changed the cover. But at the same time, they are unintentionally excluding Russian simmers, including those who are a part of the LGBTQ+ community. I say unintentionally, because I don't feel excluding them was done with any prior intent, much less a malicious one. But at the same time, I can understand why Russian simmers, especially LGBTQ+ Russian simmers would feel like they're being abandoned by EA.
EA and the Sims team are in a very difficult position here and regardless of what decision they take, they will likely receive backlash from one group or the other. It's very much a lose-lose situation in which there is no winning from either side (the sides being EA and Russian Simmers.) I do emphasize with those that this decision affects and I hope that Russian players can find some way to get the pack, but I am hesitant to call EA the bad guy in this situation and have to believe this wasn't a decision that was made lightly.
Is it not possible for them to include an alternative cover art (or no cover art) for the Russian version of the game (or the Russian Origin page for the game) and still keep the original cover for everyone else?
We know Russian laws are terrible. But this game is 8+ years old and I feel like most people aren't really going to care about Russian's censorship stuff except Russians. The in-game stuff isn't probably going to be touched anyway; just the promotional material. If Dom & Cam are in the game they're still going to be married/a couple and that won't change.
Honestly, I have a strong suspicion if they don't release it for Russian players; there is a strong chance a lot of the games features are going to become made to base game available. Which they do anyway for a lot of packs, but I feel like this whole dilemma is going to increase those chances and that's a whole 'nother can of worms to deal with.
EA was placed in a lose-lose situation. People keep saying that it’s okay for EA to release the pack because the game is 18+, but…
EA has already experienced controversy in Russia over LGBTQA+ issues. Russian government officials suggested banning FIFA 17 because of its rainbow shoelaces and the Sims 4 already has an 18+ rating because of its pro-LGBTQA+ content — how far can they push it before the game is just banned?
This pack is about weddings and thus love/family. Of course, they could change the cover for Russia, but Russian officials aren’t stupid. A simple search and it’s easy to see how it’s promoted/advertised every where else in the world. Without changing the actual pack/game, it would be obvious that they changed the cover art to make it seem less LGBTQA+ friendly but the content would still be promoting what Russian law considers anti-family values. So EA’s not going to risk it. Apple got called out for emoticons, EA’s been called out for shoelaces already, the Sims already has an adult rating, and so for the wedding pack they decided not to risk poking the bear. Russia is conservative and not exactly known for an even-handed enforcement of its laws.
Obviously, this isn’t a great situation, but really everyone needs to stand up for LGBTQA+ rights and not expect corporations to do it for us. EA may think they’ve pushed as far as they could with the base game and packs that are already out.
This is a very tough situation and one of scenarios in which I don't think there's really any "right" answer. There is certainly a wrong answer and it is the Russian government and anti-LGBTQ+ laws that is undoubtedly in the wrong in this case.
But as for what EA and the Sims team should do? I honestly don't know. As it was already mentioned in this thread, they are quite frankly caught inbetween two very difficult, controversial decisions in which there are no clear winners.
Should they give in and change the cover art? - They could, but would likely end up facing backlash for siding with the Russian government and giving into h*mophobic laws. Even if it were only the cover art for Russia and nowhere else. Although some people have said they don't think people could care that much about cover art even if it doesn't affect them personally... surely there are a few people who would think the changing of cover art for Russia alone, is all about them trying to get more sales and would claim they "don't care" about LGBTQ+ people as much as they claim. I remember the controversy from Snowy Escape over an animation that signified different things to different countries. EA ended up changing it due to what the bowing at the shrine represented to Korean simmers, and as a result ended up facing backlash from Japanese simmers. While the situations themselves are not comparable, I only bring it up as an example of how people tend to react when things like this are removed or changed.
But on the other hand, EA and the Sims team refusing to change the cover art just because of the Russian government's stance on LGBTQ+ content in a way does solidify their stance on the matter and imply that they stand with the LGBTQ+ community. And by choosing not to change things so that the gamepack can be sold without any issue in Russia, are essentially losing out on funds they would have had otherwise had they just changed the cover. But at the same time, they are unintentionally excluding Russian simmers, including those who are a part of the LGBTQ+ community. I say unintentionally, because I don't feel excluding them was done with any prior intent, much less a malicious one. But at the same time, I can understand why Russian simmers, especially LGBTQ+ Russian simmers would feel like they're being abandoned by EA.
EA and the Sims team are in a very difficult position here and regardless of what decision they take, they will likely receive backlash from one group or the other. It's very much a lose-lose situation in which there is no winning from either side (the sides being EA and Russian Simmers.) I do emphasize with those that this decision affects and I hope that Russian players can find some way to get the pack, but I am hesitant to call EA the bad guy in this situation and have to believe this wasn't a decision that was made lightly.
I mean ppl keep mentioning EA but they clarified that the sims team made the decision not EA. Ruskii who worked on the pack but left EA recently clarified more about the situation on her personal Twitter. I think because she doesn't work there anymore she can say whtv and the current team probably can't say anything yet.
I think what they should do is give free codes to Russian simmers. Idk if that would work. Maybe it could be given out like a free pack like that holiday pack. Idk if they would be able to do that since maybe ppl could use a VPN and set it to Russia to get the pack for free. Either way I hope they can find a way to get the pack to Russian and Ukrainian simmers even if they can't sell it there. There is really no loss for them to give it to them for free since they can't buy it anyway.
Thanks for pointing at Russkii's new twitter account. She says rather clearly that the Sims team had trouble with Russia and was asked to make compromises. She also explains that this was a new situation with the wedding pack while prior packs shipped without problems. Maybe the current terrible situation with Russia and the Ukraine has made things worse.
This is a very tough situation and one of scenarios in which I don't think there's really any "right" answer. There is certainly a wrong answer and it is the Russian government and anti-LGBTQ+ laws that is undoubtedly in the wrong in this case.
But as for what EA and the Sims team should do? I honestly don't know. As it was already mentioned in this thread, they are quite frankly caught inbetween two very difficult, controversial decisions in which there are no clear winners.
Should they give in and change the cover art? - They could, but would likely end up facing backlash for siding with the Russian government and giving into h*mophobic laws. Even if it were only the cover art for Russia and nowhere else. Although some people have said they don't think people could care that much about cover art even if it doesn't affect them personally... surely there are a few people who would think the changing of cover art for Russia alone, is all about them trying to get more sales and would claim they "don't care" about LGBTQ+ people as much as they claim. I remember the controversy from Snowy Escape over an animation that signified different things to different countries. EA ended up changing it due to what the bowing at the shrine represented to Korean simmers, and as a result ended up facing backlash from Japanese simmers. While the situations themselves are not comparable, I only bring it up as an example of how people tend to react when things like this are removed or changed.
But on the other hand, EA and the Sims team refusing to change the cover art just because of the Russian government's stance on LGBTQ+ content in a way does solidify their stance on the matter and imply that they stand with the LGBTQ+ community. And by choosing not to change things so that the gamepack can be sold without any issue in Russia, are essentially losing out on funds they would have had otherwise had they just changed the cover. But at the same time, they are unintentionally excluding Russian simmers, including those who are a part of the LGBTQ+ community. I say unintentionally, because I don't feel excluding them was done with any prior intent, much less a malicious one. But at the same time, I can understand why Russian simmers, especially LGBTQ+ Russian simmers would feel like they're being abandoned by EA.
EA and the Sims team are in a very difficult position here and regardless of what decision they take, they will likely receive backlash from one group or the other. It's very much a lose-lose situation in which there is no winning from either side (the sides being EA and Russian Simmers.) I do emphasize with those that this decision affects and I hope that Russian players can find some way to get the pack, but I am hesitant to call EA the bad guy in this situation and have to believe this wasn't a decision that was made lightly.
I mean ppl keep mentioning EA but they clarified that the sims team made the decision not EA. Ruskii who worked on the pack but left EA recently clarified more about the situation on her personal Twitter. I think because she doesn't work there anymore she can say whtv and the current team probably can't say anything yet.
I think what they should do is give free codes to Russian simmers. Idk if that would work. Maybe it could be given out like a free pack like that holiday pack. Idk if they would be able to do that since maybe ppl could use a VPN and set it to Russia to get the pack for free. Either way I hope they can find a way to get the pack to Russian and Ukrainian simmers even if they can't sell it there. There is really no loss for them to give it to them for free since they can't buy it anyway.
Thanks for pointing at Russkii's new twitter account. She says rather clearly that the Sims team had trouble with Russia and was asked to make compromises. She also explains that this was a new situation with the wedding pack while prior packs shipped without problems. Maybe the current terrible situation with Russia and the Ukraine has made things worse.
Yep she said that they had no problems prior and now they do. And they knew that the lesbian couple might cause issues with other countries but they went through with it anyway. She also said that she worried about the issues the pronouns update might cause in other countries.
EA was placed in a lose-lose situation. People keep saying that it’s okay for EA to release the pack because the game is 18+, but…
EA has already experienced controversy in Russia over LGBTQA+ issues. Russian government officials suggested banning FIFA 17 because of its rainbow shoelaces and the Sims 4 already has an 18+ rating because of its pro-LGBTQA+ content — how far can they push it before the game is just banned?
This pack is about weddings and thus love/family. Of course, they could change the cover for Russia, but Russian officials aren’t stupid. A simple search and it’s easy to see how it’s promoted/advertised every where else in the world. Without changing the actual pack/game, it would be obvious that they changed the cover art to make it seem less LGBTQA+ friendly but the content would still be promoting what Russian law considers anti-family values. So EA’s not going to risk it. Apple got called out for emoticons, EA’s been called out for shoelaces already, the Sims already has an adult rating, and so for the wedding pack they decided not to risk poking the bear. Russia is conservative and not exactly known for an even-handed enforcement of its laws.
Obviously, this isn’t a great situation, but really everyone needs to stand up for LGBTQA+ rights and not expect corporations to do it for us. EA may think they’ve pushed as far as they could with the base game and packs that are already out.
I think I am going to trust the Russia simmers more than ea this point.Russia does not care what is the sims pack.They had no problem with the sims pack.Thry just rate them 18+ and that's it.
EA was placed in a lose-lose situation. People keep saying that it’s okay for EA to release the pack because the game is 18+, but…
EA has already experienced controversy in Russia over LGBTQA+ issues. Russian government officials suggested banning FIFA 17 because of its rainbow shoelaces and the Sims 4 already has an 18+ rating because of its pro-LGBTQA+ content — how far can they push it before the game is just banned?
This pack is about weddings and thus love/family. Of course, they could change the cover for Russia, but Russian officials aren’t stupid. A simple search and it’s easy to see how it’s promoted/advertised every where else in the world. Without changing the actual pack/game, it would be obvious that they changed the cover art to make it seem less LGBTQA+ friendly but the content would still be promoting what Russian law considers anti-family values. So EA’s not going to risk it. Apple got called out for emoticons, EA’s been called out for shoelaces already, the Sims already has an adult rating, and so for the wedding pack they decided not to risk poking the bear. Russia is conservative and not exactly known for an even-handed enforcement of its laws.
Obviously, this isn’t a great situation, but really everyone needs to stand up for LGBTQA+ rights and not expect corporations to do it for us. EA may think they’ve pushed as far as they could with the base game and packs that are already out.
I think I am going to trust the Russia simmers more than ea this point.Russia does not care what is the sims pack.They had no problem with the sims pack.Thry just rate them 18+ and that's it.
Are they all politicians or lawyers? The question isn't always as simple as can EA do it legally? But we need to consider what the backlash is going to be. Even if it's fine, does the content make it likely that there will be an investigation, a case? Why was EA already attacked for shoelaces? Is there potential for Russian officials to try to make an example out of EA here? Corporations generally don't forego selling something/profit without a reason.
EA was placed in a lose-lose situation. People keep saying that it’s okay for EA to release the pack because the game is 18+, but…
EA has already experienced controversy in Russia over LGBTQA+ issues. Russian government officials suggested banning FIFA 17 because of its rainbow shoelaces and the Sims 4 already has an 18+ rating because of its pro-LGBTQA+ content — how far can they push it before the game is just banned?
This pack is about weddings and thus love/family. Of course, they could change the cover for Russia, but Russian officials aren’t stupid. A simple search and it’s easy to see how it’s promoted/advertised every where else in the world. Without changing the actual pack/game, it would be obvious that they changed the cover art to make it seem less LGBTQA+ friendly but the content would still be promoting what Russian law considers anti-family values. So EA’s not going to risk it. Apple got called out for emoticons, EA’s been called out for shoelaces already, the Sims already has an adult rating, and so for the wedding pack they decided not to risk poking the bear. Russia is conservative and not exactly known for an even-handed enforcement of its laws.
Obviously, this isn’t a great situation, but really everyone needs to stand up for LGBTQA+ rights and not expect corporations to do it for us. EA may think they’ve pushed as far as they could with the base game and packs that are already out.
I think I am going to trust the Russia simmers more than ea this point.Russia does not care what is the sims pack.They had no problem with the sims pack.Thry just rate them 18+ and that's it.
Are they all politicians or lawyers? The question isn't always as simple as can EA do it legally? But we need to consider what the backlash is going to be. Even if it's fine, does the content make it likely that there will be an investigation, a case? Why was EA already attacked for shoelaces? Is there potential for Russian officials to try to make an example out of EA here? Corporations generally don't forego selling something/profit without a reason.
They know the law more than we do.And no it won't be an investigation.You can have lgbt books, couples on tv at Russia.Looking at the twitter it's just can't be for minors.
The Russian government might be just picking and choosing because there is a lot of rainbow themed stuff in The Sims. Or maybe it's because Fifa is more popular there idk.
@Koteyka Thank you so much for sharing the perspectives of yourself and your Russian LGBT friends. ** I had been wondering if EA were being forced to change the cover art or trailer or something and if I was missing the point of their letter, but you have clarified that there are no Russian laws that prohibit any of that, as long as it contains the 18+ rating, which the The Sims 4 has always been rated in Russia, since the game's release. **
I really feel that, at this point, the team has stepped way out of bounds and into something that's not only out of their league, but also out of their right to call. With this statement, they have officially made their game, which has an international player base, a game about world politics - something they have tried (or claimed) to keep out of their own forums and discussions and gameplay for a long time. They have made this about Russian government, worldwide LGBT communities, and American ideals, and they have jumped on the bandwagon of cancel culture before taking a wise look at what they were leaping into. They are a software company. They are not the international representatives of social justice. They are supposed to be creating a video game and, according to their own marketing, one that is "all-inclusive". Their focus should have always been, first and foremost, about their expansive player base and not about personal ideals and opinions. This move has been a huge faux pas in which they have openly discriminated, singled out, and abandoned not just one, but four whole countries worth of their own players. And while I truly do believe they had good intentions with this, they let their own passions, emotions and personal views interfere with their obligations to be diplomatic to their player base as a whole, and it now makes them look like megalomaniacs. (Perception, not truth.)
The U.S. is a very privileged country, and while we want to do good and right to humanity, we are so, so naive to the reality of those who do not live in a first world nation and we often cannot see past our own entitlement and short-sightedness. We're so busy yelling at others and making big announcements and pointing fingers that we never listen or see or pay attention to the possibility of a reality outside of our own emphatic obstinance. We jump on a bandwagon of revolution without wisdom or grace and then wonder why we end up in a war zone.
A lot of damage has been done this week. I don't know how this can be repaired, but I do hope they can find a way. And even if they do, there's still going to be a terrible stain left behind. I'm just very sad about the whole thing.
**With new information regarding the Sims team having issues with Russia, I want to state that I still believe that they could neutralize the pack cover for the Russian version (as opposed to making it specifically represent a straight couple) and leave it open ended so that Russians can use the pack. This game is supposed to be for the player, not the advertiser, and having it neutral leaves it up to the Simmer for who gets married. They could also just pull the trailer for Russia and not create a new one and still release the neutral pack. Yes, it means compromising, but it also means getting the content to those Russian players, especially the LGBT players, who can never marry in their own country, and allow them to continue to feel supported in the only way they can. Meanwhile, the rest of the world can enjoy it as intended.
ok, I never comment on these forums but this I feel quite strongly about so here goes...
I'm a 50 year old woman, I have been playing Sims since the release day of Sims 1 in 2000. I guess you could say I'm a veteran of this game and have bought every single expansion, stuff pack, almost all store items (sims 3) and every game pack and kit in Sims 4. I have spend a great deal of money on this game over the past 22 years as I love it so much. However, over the past year or so I've debated about whether I will ever go on to a Sims 5 if there is ever going to be one. The reason being that I strongly object to any form of politics or opinions being forced on me in my game.
Let me make something clear, in my many many saves files over various sims games I have multiple same sex families, some worlds with only male female marriages and some with more same sex marriages. Heck I even had one save file where everything was rainbow coloured and people fell in love with who they wanted and that was before Pride came along!
I am a strong believer in people falling in love with the person and not their sex.
HOWEVER, making a decision to exclude an entire country from buying this game is very clearly to me a political statement based on the views of the company in my view and games should NOT be political. As a veteran gamer over the years I've seen many games make changes to front covers so they can still sell the game in countries that might have different views on things. Why can they not do that in this case? Its simply because they WANT to be seen to be making a point on the issue.
Change the front cover, let Russian people buy the game and then let THEM decide what they do within their own save file.
Please stop making statements with this game, let your customers decide how they want to play and PLEASE stop being political, most of us play these games for fun and to make our sometimes dreary lives a bit more colourful and fun. If I wanted to be involved in politics and debate I would watch the news!
OK, I feel better now, happy simming everyone! xxx
Not just lgbt Russian simmers , they just exclude the whole entire Russia simmer base.The whole thing is sad and pathetic.
Absolutely, I agree! But with these actions EA deeply hurt a lot of the most vulnerable members of their community and that's something I personally wanted to point out. It's not just the loss of some gameplay that's hurting my friends, it's the entire attitude. It's EA posting an entire letter about love and the importance of freely telling your stories and yet not showing a hint of support for those who can't. It's the people down there in the comments telling them "this is a win over homophobia", "we're sorry but this is best for you", "go protest to your government". The people who believe they are supportive but are expressing it in a very damaging way, erasing my friends everyday struggles with a snap of the fingers. It hurts.
Some people will defend anything and everything EA does and they will also believe anything EA tells them. It doesn't help that there's a lot of misinformation about Russia's laws mostly due to anti-Russian propaganda in the US that has gotten much worse in the last 6-7 years.
For just pointing out that all Russian simmers are being punished for the laws the Russian government made and that Russian lgbt were being excluded in EA's pursuit of being all-inclusive, I got accusation, assumption, and personal insults.
I'm so sorry that the ones EA hurt the most by doing this are being hurt more by people "who believe they are supportive but are expressing it in a very damaging way" and also by the people that will defend EA until the day they die.
This whole thing has upset me to the point of not even wanting to play Sims anymore and I'm not even affected by it. I believe EA is being unethical by capitalizing on the controversy that they caused at the expense of Russian simmers.
@Koteyka Thank you so much for sharing the perspectives of yourself and your Russian LGBT friends. I had been wondering if EA were being forced to change the cover art or trailer or something and if I was missing the point of their letter, but you have clarified that there are no Russian laws that prohibit any of that, as long as it contains the 18+ rating, which the The Sims 4 has always been rated in Russia, since the game's release.
I really feel that, at this point, the team has stepped way out of bounds and into something that's not only out of their league, but also out of their right to call. With this statement, they have officially made their game, which has an international player base, a game about world politics - something they have tried (or claimed) to keep out of their own forums and discussions and gameplay for a long time. They have made this about Russian government, worldwide LGBT communities, and American ideals, and they have jumped on the bandwagon of cancel culture before taking a wise look at what they were leaping into. They are a software company. They are not the international representatives of social justice. They are supposed to be creating a video game and, according to their own marketing, one that is "all-inclusive". Their focus should have always been, first and foremost, about their expansive player base and not about personal ideals and opinions. This move has been a huge faux pas in which they have openly discriminated, singled out, and abandoned not just one, but four whole countries worth of their own players. And while I truly do believe they had good intentions with this, they let their own passions, emotions and personal views interfere with their obligations to be diplomatic to their player base as a whole, and it now makes them look like megalomaniacs. (Perception, not truth.)
The U.S. is a very privileged country, and while we want to do good and right to humanity, we are so, so naive to the reality of those who do not live in a first world nation and we often cannot see past our own entitlement and short-sightedness. We're so busy yelling at others and making big announcements and pointing fingers that we never listen or see or pay attention to the possibility of a reality outside of our own emphatic obstinance. We jump on a bandwagon of revolution without wisdom or grace and then wonder why we end up in a war zone.
A lot of damage has been done this week. I don't know how this can be repaired, but I do hope they can find a way. And even if they do, there's still going to be a terrible stain left behind. I'm just very sad about the whole thing.
I agree with this.The sims team really should not been political here.I saw a twitter saying how eastern Europe does not get represented.The sims team was always selected on what's get representation.I hope they learn from this.
EA was placed in a lose-lose situation. People keep saying that it’s okay for EA to release the pack because the game is 18+, but…
EA has already experienced controversy in Russia over LGBTQA+ issues. Russian government officials suggested banning FIFA 17 because of its rainbow shoelaces and the Sims 4 already has an 18+ rating because of its pro-LGBTQA+ content — how far can they push it before the game is just banned?
This pack is about weddings and thus love/family. Of course, they could change the cover for Russia, but Russian officials aren’t stupid. A simple search and it’s easy to see how it’s promoted/advertised every where else in the world. Without changing the actual pack/game, it would be obvious that they changed the cover art to make it seem less LGBTQA+ friendly but the content would still be promoting what Russian law considers anti-family values. So EA’s not going to risk it. Apple got called out for emoticons, EA’s been called out for shoelaces already, the Sims already has an adult rating, and so for the wedding pack they decided not to risk poking the bear. Russia is conservative and not exactly known for an even-handed enforcement of its laws.
Obviously, this isn’t a great situation, but really everyone needs to stand up for LGBTQA+ rights and not expect corporations to do it for us. EA may think they’ve pushed as far as they could with the base game and packs that are already out.
I think I am going to trust the Russia simmers more than ea this point.Russia does not care what is the sims pack.They had no problem with the sims pack.Thry just rate them 18+ and that's it.
Are they all politicians or lawyers? The question isn't always as simple as can EA do it legally? But we need to consider what the backlash is going to be. Even if it's fine, does the content make it likely that there will be an investigation, a case? Why was EA already attacked for shoelaces? Is there potential for Russian officials to try to make an example out of EA here? Corporations generally don't forego selling something/profit without a reason.
They know the law more than we do.And no it won't be an investigation.You can have lgbt books, couples on tv at Russia.Looking at the twitter it's just can't be for minors.
I would say that they actually may not ... but I'm not giving legal advice. I don't think most people are experts on laws, especially game censorship laws and even if they are, it's hard to judge the risk because of the political climate. I just think, like some others have said, that there is a lot to consider here and EA has already been picked on and threatened by Russian officials for having LGBTQA+ stuff in their games so EA is going to be cautious, especially given the political climate and supposed pushback the Sims developers already received from Russia regarding this new pack.
I feel like this really depends on what was being ask.If it was gameplay I understand, but if it was literally the marketing.Than they really should just compromise.
EA was placed in a lose-lose situation. People keep saying that it’s okay for EA to release the pack because the game is 18+, but…
EA has already experienced controversy in Russia over LGBTQA+ issues. Russian government officials suggested banning FIFA 17 because of its rainbow shoelaces and the Sims 4 already has an 18+ rating because of its pro-LGBTQA+ content — how far can they push it before the game is just banned?
This pack is about weddings and thus love/family. Of course, they could change the cover for Russia, but Russian officials aren’t stupid. A simple search and it’s easy to see how it’s promoted/advertised every where else in the world. Without changing the actual pack/game, it would be obvious that they changed the cover art to make it seem less LGBTQA+ friendly but the content would still be promoting what Russian law considers anti-family values. So EA’s not going to risk it. Apple got called out for emoticons, EA’s been called out for shoelaces already, the Sims already has an adult rating, and so for the wedding pack they decided not to risk poking the bear. Russia is conservative and not exactly known for an even-handed enforcement of its laws.
Obviously, this isn’t a great situation, but really everyone needs to stand up for LGBTQA+ rights and not expect corporations to do it for us. EA may think they’ve pushed as far as they could with the base game and packs that are already out.
According to an article I read, the issue with the shoelaces was more due to Fifa17's age rating (which I believe is all ages in the EU). The issue Russia had with that was due to the fact their laws are "wahhh protect the children!" kind where anything "promoting non-traditional couplings (anything but heterosexual couples)" to minors is illegal. It has to be labeled as adult only. The rainbow laces was part of a pride promotional thing for an all ages game so hence the issue.
It's the same reason why Sims 4 is 18+ in Russia. Now maybe things have changed between EA and Russia's policies but I can't seem to find any reason why it could be (from lurking on twitter and reading POV from Russian players).
Ironically, apparently Russian players are getting promotional ads for the pack on Origin so...idk something is up.
I mean ppl keep mentioning EA but they clarified that the sims team made the decision not EA. Ruskii who worked on the pack but left EA recently clarified more about the situation on her personal Twitter. I think because she doesn't work there anymore she can say whtv and the current team probably can't say anything yet.
I think what they should do is give free codes to Russian simmers. Idk if that would work. Maybe it could be given out like a free pack like that holiday pack. Idk if they would be able to do that since maybe ppl could use a VPN and set it to Russia to get the pack for free. Either way I hope they can find a way to get the pack to Russian and Ukrainian simmers even if they can't sell it there. There is really no loss for them to give it to them for free since they can't buy it anyway.
Thank you for the clarification that this was a decision made by the Sims team rather than EA. It wasn't exactly clear in the letter where the decision was actually made.
I suppose that giving out free codes to Russian simmers to get around the law could perhaps be a solution. Granted you'd still have some entitled few who'd complain about Russia getting the pack for free while they still have to buy it, but there definitely wouldn't be any
monetary loss for either EA or the Sims team. And I know I personally wouldn't have an issue with it.
Is it not possible for them to include an alternative cover art (or no cover art) for the Russian version of the game (or the Russian Origin page for the game) and still keep the original cover for everyone else?
We know Russian laws are terrible. But this game is 8+ years old and I feel like most people aren't really going to care about Russian's censorship stuff except Russians. The in-game stuff isn't probably going to be touched anyway; just the promotional material. If Dom & Cam are in the game they're still going to be married/a couple and that won't change.
Honestly, I have a strong suspicion if they don't release it for Russian players; there is a strong chance a lot of the games features are going to become made to base game available. Which they do anyway for a lot of packs, but I feel like this whole dilemma is going to increase those chances and that's a whole 'nother can of worms to deal with.
I'm not actually sure if creating an alternative cover art would work or not. But I suppose that would certainly be better than having to change the cover art for everyone or having to forgo a Russian release? So long as the cover art were not changed in all versions of the game.
EA was placed in a lose-lose situation. People keep saying that it’s okay for EA to release the pack because the game is 18+, but…
EA has already experienced controversy in Russia over LGBTQA+ issues. Russian government officials suggested banning FIFA 17 because of its rainbow shoelaces and the Sims 4 already has an 18+ rating because of its pro-LGBTQA+ content — how far can they push it before the game is just banned?
This pack is about weddings and thus love/family. Of course, they could change the cover for Russia, but Russian officials aren’t stupid. A simple search and it’s easy to see how it’s promoted/advertised every where else in the world. Without changing the actual pack/game, it would be obvious that they changed the cover art to make it seem less LGBTQA+ friendly but the content would still be promoting what Russian law considers anti-family values. So EA’s not going to risk it. Apple got called out for emoticons, EA’s been called out for shoelaces already, the Sims already has an adult rating, and so for the wedding pack they decided not to risk poking the bear. Russia is conservative and not exactly known for an even-handed enforcement of its laws.
Obviously, this isn’t a great situation, but really everyone needs to stand up for LGBTQA+ rights and not expect corporations to do it for us. EA may think they’ve pushed as far as they could with the base game and packs that are already out.
According to an article I read, the issue with the shoelaces was more due to Fifa17's age rating (which I believe is all ages in the EU). The issue Russia had with that was due to the fact their laws are "wahhh protect the children!" kind where anything "promoting non-traditional couplings (anything but heterosexual couples)" to minors is illegal. It has to be labeled as adult only. The rainbow laces was part of a pride promotional thing for an all ages game so hence the issue.
I feel like this really depends on what was being ask.If it was gameplay I understand, but if it was literally the marketing.Than they really should just compromise.
Based on quotes fror her tweets it was about their presentation of content aka the cover and maybe the trailer.
I am also interested in who asked them and on what legal grounds exactly. I mean someone can ask and throw a fit as they want but there is no legal ground yet to ban the game or this pack in particular in Russia otherwise they would not "ask" or "call for ban because of the rainbow stuff in FiFa" etc., they would have banned the whole thing just like China did and that would be it. But they can't so they ask (if they really ask, who knows, maybe it was a suggestion or something)
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I mean ppl keep mentioning EA but they clarified that the sims team made the decision not EA. Ruskii who worked on the pack but left EA recently clarified more about the situation on her personal Twitter. I think because she doesn't work there anymore she can say whtv and the current team probably can't say anything yet.
I think what they should do is give free codes to Russian simmers. Idk if that would work. Maybe it could be given out like a free pack like that holiday pack. Idk if they would be able to do that since maybe ppl could use a VPN and set it to Russia to get the pack for free. Either way I hope they can find a way to get the pack to Russian and Ukrainian simmers even if they can't sell it there. There is really no loss for them to give it to them for free since they can't buy it anyway.
Is it not possible for them to include an alternative cover art (or no cover art) for the Russian version of the game (or the Russian Origin page for the game) and still keep the original cover for everyone else?
We know Russian laws are terrible. But this game is 8+ years old and I feel like most people aren't really going to care about Russian's censorship stuff except Russians. The in-game stuff isn't probably going to be touched anyway; just the promotional material. If Dom & Cam are in the game they're still going to be married/a couple and that won't change.
Honestly, I have a strong suspicion if they don't release it for Russian players; there is a strong chance a lot of the games features are going to become made to base game available. Which they do anyway for a lot of packs, but I feel like this whole dilemma is going to increase those chances and that's a whole 'nother can of worms to deal with.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
EA has already experienced controversy in Russia over LGBTQA+ issues. Russian government officials suggested banning FIFA 17 because of its rainbow shoelaces and the Sims 4 already has an 18+ rating because of its pro-LGBTQA+ content — how far can they push it before the game is just banned?
This pack is about weddings and thus love/family. Of course, they could change the cover for Russia, but Russian officials aren’t stupid. A simple search and it’s easy to see how it’s promoted/advertised every where else in the world. Without changing the actual pack/game, it would be obvious that they changed the cover art to make it seem less LGBTQA+ friendly but the content would still be promoting what Russian law considers anti-family values. So EA’s not going to risk it. Apple got called out for emoticons, EA’s been called out for shoelaces already, the Sims already has an adult rating, and so for the wedding pack they decided not to risk poking the bear. Russia is conservative and not exactly known for an even-handed enforcement of its laws.
Obviously, this isn’t a great situation, but really everyone needs to stand up for LGBTQA+ rights and not expect corporations to do it for us. EA may think they’ve pushed as far as they could with the base game and packs that are already out.
Thanks for pointing at Russkii's new twitter account. She says rather clearly that the Sims team had trouble with Russia and was asked to make compromises. She also explains that this was a new situation with the wedding pack while prior packs shipped without problems. Maybe the current terrible situation with Russia and the Ukraine has made things worse.
Yep she said that they had no problems prior and now they do. And they knew that the lesbian couple might cause issues with other countries but they went through with it anyway. She also said that she worried about the issues the pronouns update might cause in other countries.
Yes I hope ea could fix the origin issue so they can access the pack.
I think I am going to trust the Russia simmers more than ea this point.Russia does not care what is the sims pack.They had no problem with the sims pack.Thry just rate them 18+ and that's it.
Are they all politicians or lawyers? The question isn't always as simple as can EA do it legally? But we need to consider what the backlash is going to be. Even if it's fine, does the content make it likely that there will be an investigation, a case? Why was EA already attacked for shoelaces? Is there potential for Russian officials to try to make an example out of EA here? Corporations generally don't forego selling something/profit without a reason.
They know the law more than we do.And no it won't be an investigation.You can have lgbt books, couples on tv at Russia.Looking at the twitter it's just can't be for minors.
I really feel that, at this point, the team has stepped way out of bounds and into something that's not only out of their league, but also out of their right to call. With this statement, they have officially made their game, which has an international player base, a game about world politics - something they have tried (or claimed) to keep out of their own forums and discussions and gameplay for a long time. They have made this about Russian government, worldwide LGBT communities, and American ideals, and they have jumped on the bandwagon of cancel culture before taking a wise look at what they were leaping into. They are a software company. They are not the international representatives of social justice. They are supposed to be creating a video game and, according to their own marketing, one that is "all-inclusive". Their focus should have always been, first and foremost, about their expansive player base and not about personal ideals and opinions. This move has been a huge faux pas in which they have openly discriminated, singled out, and abandoned not just one, but four whole countries worth of their own players. And while I truly do believe they had good intentions with this, they let their own passions, emotions and personal views interfere with their obligations to be diplomatic to their player base as a whole, and it now makes them look like megalomaniacs. (Perception, not truth.)
The U.S. is a very privileged country, and while we want to do good and right to humanity, we are so, so naive to the reality of those who do not live in a first world nation and we often cannot see past our own entitlement and short-sightedness. We're so busy yelling at others and making big announcements and pointing fingers that we never listen or see or pay attention to the possibility of a reality outside of our own emphatic obstinance. We jump on a bandwagon of revolution without wisdom or grace and then wonder why we end up in a war zone.
A lot of damage has been done this week. I don't know how this can be repaired, but I do hope they can find a way. And even if they do, there's still going to be a terrible stain left behind. I'm just very sad about the whole thing.
**With new information regarding the Sims team having issues with Russia, I want to state that I still believe that they could neutralize the pack cover for the Russian version (as opposed to making it specifically represent a straight couple) and leave it open ended so that Russians can use the pack. This game is supposed to be for the player, not the advertiser, and having it neutral leaves it up to the Simmer for who gets married. They could also just pull the trailer for Russia and not create a new one and still release the neutral pack. Yes, it means compromising, but it also means getting the content to those Russian players, especially the LGBT players, who can never marry in their own country, and allow them to continue to feel supported in the only way they can. Meanwhile, the rest of the world can enjoy it as intended.
I'm a 50 year old woman, I have been playing Sims since the release day of Sims 1 in 2000. I guess you could say I'm a veteran of this game and have bought every single expansion, stuff pack, almost all store items (sims 3) and every game pack and kit in Sims 4. I have spend a great deal of money on this game over the past 22 years as I love it so much. However, over the past year or so I've debated about whether I will ever go on to a Sims 5 if there is ever going to be one. The reason being that I strongly object to any form of politics or opinions being forced on me in my game.
Let me make something clear, in my many many saves files over various sims games I have multiple same sex families, some worlds with only male female marriages and some with more same sex marriages. Heck I even had one save file where everything was rainbow coloured and people fell in love with who they wanted and that was before Pride came along!
I am a strong believer in people falling in love with the person and not their sex.
HOWEVER, making a decision to exclude an entire country from buying this game is very clearly to me a political statement based on the views of the company in my view and games should NOT be political. As a veteran gamer over the years I've seen many games make changes to front covers so they can still sell the game in countries that might have different views on things. Why can they not do that in this case? Its simply because they WANT to be seen to be making a point on the issue.
Change the front cover, let Russian people buy the game and then let THEM decide what they do within their own save file.
Please stop making statements with this game, let your customers decide how they want to play and PLEASE stop being political, most of us play these games for fun and to make our sometimes dreary lives a bit more colourful and fun. If I wanted to be involved in politics and debate I would watch the news!
OK, I feel better now, happy simming everyone! xxx
Some people will defend anything and everything EA does and they will also believe anything EA tells them. It doesn't help that there's a lot of misinformation about Russia's laws mostly due to anti-Russian propaganda in the US that has gotten much worse in the last 6-7 years.
For just pointing out that all Russian simmers are being punished for the laws the Russian government made and that Russian lgbt were being excluded in EA's pursuit of being all-inclusive, I got accusation, assumption, and personal insults.
I'm so sorry that the ones EA hurt the most by doing this are being hurt more by people "who believe they are supportive but are expressing it in a very damaging way" and also by the people that will defend EA until the day they die.
This whole thing has upset me to the point of not even wanting to play Sims anymore and I'm not even affected by it. I believe EA is being unethical by capitalizing on the controversy that they caused at the expense of Russian simmers.
Completely done with EA
I agree with this.The sims team really should not been political here.I saw a twitter saying how eastern Europe does not get represented.The sims team was always selected on what's get representation.I hope they learn from this.
I would say that they actually may not ... but I'm not giving legal advice. I don't think most people are experts on laws, especially game censorship laws and even if they are, it's hard to judge the risk because of the political climate. I just think, like some others have said, that there is a lot to consider here and EA has already been picked on and threatened by Russian officials for having LGBTQA+ stuff in their games so EA is going to be cautious, especially given the political climate and supposed pushback the Sims developers already received from Russia regarding this new pack.
I feel like this really depends on what was being ask.If it was gameplay I understand, but if it was literally the marketing.Than they really should just compromise.
According to an article I read, the issue with the shoelaces was more due to Fifa17's age rating (which I believe is all ages in the EU). The issue Russia had with that was due to the fact their laws are "wahhh protect the children!" kind where anything "promoting non-traditional couplings (anything but heterosexual couples)" to minors is illegal. It has to be labeled as adult only. The rainbow laces was part of a pride promotional thing for an all ages game so hence the issue.
It's the same reason why Sims 4 is 18+ in Russia. Now maybe things have changed between EA and Russia's policies but I can't seem to find any reason why it could be (from lurking on twitter and reading POV from Russian players).
Ironically, apparently Russian players are getting promotional ads for the pack on Origin so...idk something is up.
Thank you for the clarification that this was a decision made by the Sims team rather than EA. It wasn't exactly clear in the letter where the decision was actually made.
I suppose that giving out free codes to Russian simmers to get around the law could perhaps be a solution. Granted you'd still have some entitled few who'd complain about Russia getting the pack for free while they still have to buy it, but there definitely wouldn't be any
monetary loss for either EA or the Sims team. And I know I personally wouldn't have an issue with it.
I'm not actually sure if creating an alternative cover art would work or not. But I suppose that would certainly be better than having to change the cover art for everyone or having to forgo a Russian release? So long as the cover art were not changed in all versions of the game.
Ok that makes sense thank you
I am also interested in who asked them and on what legal grounds exactly. I mean someone can ask and throw a fit as they want but there is no legal ground yet to ban the game or this pack in particular in Russia otherwise they would not "ask" or "call for ban because of the rainbow stuff in FiFa" etc., they would have banned the whole thing just like China did and that would be it. But they can't so they ask (if they really ask, who knows, maybe it was a suggestion or something)