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Game balance vs Fun. Maxis has failed at both.
ReclusiveEagle
Posts: 86 Member
So by now with the release of the new kits and dust bunnies, I think everyone can agree TS4 is utterly broken in 2 ways.
Keep in mind in pervious games, yes you could earn a lot of money if you actually tried.
For example The Sims 3:
The difference between TS1-3 and TS4 is you have to put in work to get a massive amount of money.
In the Sims 4 all you have to do is wait 2 in game hours till your house gets dirty (again hilariously unbalanced)
then feed dust once or twice a day and you get +$800 while you sleep. A random Omiscan treasure.
Items that cost $5k plus and within a day of doing nothing you have $40k-60k.
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I understand the need to breathe new life into Sims by adding new features and content we have never seen before.
But when the core of the game (emotions) have become more of a temporary inconvenience that you can entirely solve by toggling
a single painting or watching tv for 30 in game minutes, it just shows that the foundation of The Sims 4 has been compromised.
At this point people aren't buying new content because its fun, they are buying new content because they are so bored of what already exists.
Again, due to Maxis philosophy of continuing to create barebones content that is unbalanced and then stretching said content over 2-3 different packs.
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The Future
Maxis producers have said there are many more years of TS4 to come. So will the game improve? No.
With the introduction of kits it proves Maxis has no backbone. They are entirely at the mercy of EA with no say in what content they want to create. Is Maxis and its current employees capable of creating the best Sims game ever made right now? HeIl yes. There is absolutely no doubt about it.
However, are they currently capable of producing an amazing Sims game while being subject to EA. No. And that is the sad truth.
What we have seen from the Sims Team over these past 5 years, has shown us that under EA, Maxis is a shell of its former self.
The only hope I have left for the Sims as a Franchise and Maxis as a company is for them to self publish or for Microsoft to purchase the studio.
Until Maxis is free from EA, the future of the series and company is dark.
EA is exhausting Maxis the same way it has done to every other studio it has purchased.
The day Maxis fully turns into the next:
- 1: The game is laughably. And I mean hilariously unbalanced.
With the right lot traits and a simplistic amount of work from the player, you can get $100,000 .. in 2 days...for doing nothing.
- 2: EA and Maxis are more focused on bringing in new content no one asked for, neglecting good content,
refusing to fix broken content (Hello Dine Out) and are more focused on stretching upcoming content through multiple packs to charge more. Eg why wasn't the Dust mechanic included in Laundry day? Why wasn't My First Pet stuff included in Pets ect ect.
Keep in mind in pervious games, yes you could earn a lot of money if you actually tried.
For example The Sims 3:
- get an Alien and a Witch, have the Witch conjure apples.
- Use Conversion Ritual on the Apple till you got any gem
- Have the Alien Transmute the Gem till you get Tiberium
- Use the gem cutting machine to cut it so you get a gem + dust
- drop the gem + dust on the floor
- and within 5 days of starting you have 4 fully grown spires each worth $40,000
The difference between TS1-3 and TS4 is you have to put in work to get a massive amount of money.
In the Sims 4 all you have to do is wait 2 in game hours till your house gets dirty (again hilariously unbalanced)
then feed dust once or twice a day and you get +$800 while you sleep. A random Omiscan treasure.
Items that cost $5k plus and within a day of doing nothing you have $40k-60k.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I understand the need to breathe new life into Sims by adding new features and content we have never seen before.
But when the core of the game (emotions) have become more of a temporary inconvenience that you can entirely solve by toggling
a single painting or watching tv for 30 in game minutes, it just shows that the foundation of The Sims 4 has been compromised.
At this point people aren't buying new content because its fun, they are buying new content because they are so bored of what already exists.
Again, due to Maxis philosophy of continuing to create barebones content that is unbalanced and then stretching said content over 2-3 different packs.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The Future
Maxis producers have said there are many more years of TS4 to come. So will the game improve? No.
With the introduction of kits it proves Maxis has no backbone. They are entirely at the mercy of EA with no say in what content they want to create. Is Maxis and its current employees capable of creating the best Sims game ever made right now? HeIl yes. There is absolutely no doubt about it.
However, are they currently capable of producing an amazing Sims game while being subject to EA. No. And that is the sad truth.
What we have seen from the Sims Team over these past 5 years, has shown us that under EA, Maxis is a shell of its former self.
The only hope I have left for the Sims as a Franchise and Maxis as a company is for them to self publish or for Microsoft to purchase the studio.
Until Maxis is free from EA, the future of the series and company is dark.
EA is exhausting Maxis the same way it has done to every other studio it has purchased.
The day Maxis fully turns into the next:
- DreamWorks Interactive
- Visceral Games
- Pandemic Studios
- Westwood Studios
- And currently BioWare
Eagle.
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
In the Sims 3 my sims will often let me know what they want in life with wants and fears. They will even tell me what life time goal they would like to achieve as they get older and I love this feature. It makes it feel more like I'm playing with an actual life because they essentially choose their own path. I don't always have to give them what they want but making them happy is something I very much enjoy and I love the randomness of them choosing the way their lives go.
I'm sorry if it seems like I'm doing a Sims 3 vs Sims 4 post. It's not meant to be that way. I just didn't know any other way to explain.
As for the balancing topic, I agree, when you combine many of the features that offer perks, buffs and bonuses to sims, they often stack up and become completely overpowered and unbalanced compared to the rest of the game. There are many ways to make a sims life easier in the Sims 4, with that said I would also argue that there are many ways to make a sims life more difficult as well. Ultimately it's a player driven experience, if the player wants a more easy going experience they have options for that, but if the player desires more of a challenge there are also options for that.
I often see people saying that the Sims 4 is too easy, and I guess I somewhat agree, but the Sims 4 has a variety of features that can replicate "difficulty settings", things like lot traits, NAP's, Eco Footprint, and now things like Tiny Homes and Haunted Houses, can all contribute to a more challenging experience if that's what the player desires. As for making money, I am aware of the easy methods of obtaining money, so I simply avoid them. Just because a game play option is available to me doesn't mean I am obligated to use it or engage with it, sometimes certain gameplay features just don't make sense in the scenarios I like to play.
But this is all based on my experience with the Sims 4, there's plenty of room for improvement of course, but with what's already available I find that there are many ways to manipulate my personal game play experience, to make it more challenging, easy, random, spontaneous, etc. it's all a matter of me the player utilizing what's available instead of waiting around for things to happen on their own. Sims 4's original slogan was 'You Rule,' and it seems they kept true to that phrase to some degree.
(OP, while I think a lot of your overall points are valid, general sweeping statements of “content no one asked for” and your assumptions for why people buy the game, etc., as support for your argument, well those don’t tend to go over well around here).
@Sharonia You basically summed up one of my main issues with the game as well. I really like having a Wants/Fears system.
Anyway...eh, I disagree. Maybe I'll make a full post of points I disagree with but when it comes down to it, I think we just want different things out of a game and that's fine.
I can’t speak for Sharonia, but I was referring to the system in TS2.
You could...uhhh....win the lottery I guess? I mean it's possible to earn 100,000 in 2 days if you have enough money trees, but that's not a low effort thing to do without cheating/mods. And I've only ever had 1 Sim that I've played win the lottery before in Sims 4, so that's not really viable either.
Dust bunnies. I never even interacted with them and I made 127k in one night. It didn't happen with the first family I played with after the pack released, but when I switched houses, there was already a dust bunny there and it immediately was adding funds and objects to the family inventory.
I feel like a lot of times it is optional how easy or hard you want to make things but it does seem forced a few times like with dust bunnies giving your sims money with no option to opt out from that. I get that reading the same points over and over can get boring but those types of threads arent all made by the same user, and many people dont visit here all the time so they wont know if something was talked about already.
Yeah it's been a while I get the systems of the Sims 2 and 3 mixed up sometimes. My point was just that in those games the game play itself would sometimes lead us as players in different directions but in the Sims 4 that's rarely the case.
That was tuned pretty early on though, you can't get that much any more I bet.
That's fair! I get systems mixed up all the time.
Hey now....I also play other games than The Sims 4!
I play solitaire. I play soccer.
Actually I don't play soccer. Not anymore.
I do play peeka-boo with my little niece...and I play....fetch with my friend's dog?
On a more serious note :
What I agree with is that some of the gameplay in TS4 tends to be a little too easy. In this case I refer to quest driven packs which I personally like a lot, but they're not challenging enough in my opinion. I need myself some puzzles and hidden clues 'n codes or something. TS3 World Adventure Style, but better.
Regarding general game play you can make it as difficult or as easy as you want. Cheats also come with the game. I often use the 0 money cheat and force my sim to live off the land. No rags to riches and unless it's haunted or dilapidated I don't care about a mansion. Just pure survival. It's fun. Different people different play styles.
I also feel that we could use a bit more balance in the emotion/ personality system for sure. Make that more meaningful, but I can see that they're at least working on it.
What I don't agree with is this: and this:
That's just the same 'old speaking for others and frankly it gets a little tiresome. You kinda lost me there.
You probably have a better chance in getting up votes if you post the same thing on Reddit or YouTube or Twitter, because that's where most of the Pitchforks and Everybodies live.
This place is where a lot of the No Ones dwell.
Over the past 6-7 years I've seen huge improvement and I believe it will continue to do so as long as the community speaks up without constantly screaming doom and gloom.
That some folks lost patience is a different story. Sure, we all wanted it yesterday in as few packs as possible and that's why it's good that we're vocal, because it will give us content that a lot of people keep asking for. Eventually. Because different folks ask for different things. The player base is massive.
Just because "WE ALL WANT BABIES" doesn't mean we all want babies.
I've always felt pretty indifferent towards toddlers, skin tones & bunk beds, but I'm really glad they're in my game now. I'm happy for those who really wanted this content and I'm talking about the folks who kept pushing for it without getting all [ insert word that I'm not allowed to use anymore].
At the same time I will continue to ask for content that a majority probably feels nothing for. But I'll still ask and if somehow we get it in game (smiling at you Batuu oh oh) I'm happy to keep asking for stuff No One asks for. Sorry about that.*
*I'm not sorry about that.
I guess I must make use of a lot of those 'difficulty settings' you mention, as my sims never have it easy. I have only ever had one rich sim in all these years, and that was because they won the lottery lol.
I guess how a person sees this game depends a lot on how they play it and what they want from it. I like to take things slow, I never cheat or use what I call 'freebies' (like money trees). I don't try and race up the careers or get to the top of skills. I get a lot of pleasure doing a long rotation and intertwining relationships around all the worlds, whilst experiencing lots of aspects from all the different packs.
The game is very well suited to how I play.
Of course, there are bugs and things that need better tuning, but no game is perfect.
It's just a way to say that a big part of people is asking for something that isn't being delivered (and no it's not just a vocal minority). I know it's not a really good way to express that with "nobody asked for this" but I think what is meant by that is like I said that a big part of the community wants different things. I feel like it's more productive to try to understand what the person actually means than get hang up on words and expressions used incorrectly. The meaning to me is more important than the words.
@elanorbreton I think part of the problem is Sims 4 has way way too many of bugs and bad tuning compared to what it should have or what other games have.
There's a vendor in Sulani that sells Angel Fish for bait during the fishing competition along with several other fish that used to be hard to catch. There's also a stall in Brindleton Bay that sells fish like salmon. Did you hear that players didn't like the StrangerVille Mystery aspiration? I'm surprised Maxis hasn't come out with an official way to complete it without having to do it. Mod creators did though. Did you hear that players didn't want Vampires in their games but they did want the build and buy stuff? Easy fix - nuke the appearance of Vampires. Those of us who bought Vampires to have Vampires are just SOL. You apparently can't have it both ways. But here, have some more Aliens.
The game is broken in many ways but not just because of being dumbed down with dust bunnies that make Sims get rich in a matter of hours. I didn't buy the vacuum cleaner pack so I don't have to deal with dust bunnies. I didn't buy Eco Living so I don't have to deal with NAPs or random phone calls from pre-made Sims that are foisted on us whether we want them or not.
Even though I try to run a fairly clean cc-free, mod-free game it's becoming increasingly impossible unless you can cope with things like the game forcing all types of fake relationships, Sages being placed in careers, Vlad showing up as not a Vampire but a Human, sometimes with no Vampire Lore skill, or the game makes him a bartender or yoga instructor instead of using any of the multitude of random townies that it generates with cheated skills in painting, violin, guitar, singing, comedy, programming, logic, or mischief. The game uses those gems to fill part-time freelance jobs, to become fixtures in your Sims neighborhoods, to attend every social event that your Sims are invited to, and to appear on every lot that your Sim visits. (AKA: Stalkers.)
Recently I noticed that plants had pretty much stopped disappearing after being planted. That was good to see but then I noticed that some harvestables were disappearing from my Sims personal inventories. Simple things like strawberries, snapdragons, lilies, and basil. Always the basil. I think I'm going to ban basil from my saves.
I don't think this game is meant to be a challenge unless the hardest choice you want to make is who's going to be the next baby daddy in a 100 baby challenge. I've pretty much become an observer in most new saves that I've started recently. I watch to see what the game does during the first week or two that a Sim is in play. The game is pretty consistent.
And there are the lots in Oasis Springs that have weird glitches where you can see the sky if you build too close to the boundary. Base game lots.
Perhaps the OP could come back and explain what they mean. As I said I also think the game is too easy, I’ll try to quickly explain to you what I mean when I say it’s unbalanced and too easy.
To me, Emotions are not an adequate enough representation of negative Consequences in the game, and from my perspective that is how the devs intended them to be (as the primary source of an in-game negative Consequence mechanic). When I say Consequences I mean the in-game mechanic that pushes back at the player during their game experience for certain actions taken (beyond one Sim cheating and another Sim being upset and divorcing them, for example).
TS2 had a system in place that offered ongoing negative Consequences. This was tied directly into Personality — the Aspiration system. The Aspiration system was directly tied into Wants/Fears. The Aspiration system was like an ongoing push and pull wherein players would see positive and negative Consequences for actions taken. This system worked on top of the fact that Sims also experienced emotions (there just was no emotion moodlets to display on the screen).
In TS4, Aspirations are semi-tied to Personality in that Sims all have to pick an Aspiration, but the Aspiration is not tied to any Wants/Fears and instead is a checklist that the player can see and complete. Sims in TS4 have no in-game mechanics that are indicating that they are aware of this Aspiration choice and thus don’t have an in-game motivating system on this level. They are motivated by the player only. Without this in-game motivator, there is no push and pull system that offers both positive and negative Consequences. For example, I have a Sim who has the Freelance Botanist Aspiration. Because there is no in-game mechanic tying her Aspiration directing to her Personality through some form of Wants/Fears system, she never shows any indication that she is aware that this is what she wants out of life. The game does not punish me if I choose not to complete any of the tiers for the Aspiration. My Sim could theoretically die a happy Sim having not fulfilled any of the goals for her supposed Lifetime Want. There are no negative Consequences for her having not fulfilled this major goal or all of the little goals along the way. There is only Neutral - not fulfilling, and Positive - fulfilling (and receiving the Perks that come along with that).
So for me, reaching happiness (an internal state of fulfillment, not a Happy moodlet) is easy because the game is not trying to offer a state of lack of fulfillment. As the player, the game is not pushing back at me.
And just to go back up to a previous idea I mentioned, I don’t view Emotions as an adequate system for Consequences because while Sims can gain negative Emotions, they’re all fleeting, as Emotions tend to be. A lack of lasting Consequences, positive or negative, means that everything is very in the moment and so as the player I don’t have to worry about one action beyond how long the gained Emotion for it will last. Maybe my Sim gets fired from their job, and they’re sad about it for a day. But there was never a mechanic in place that meant that that event will have a lasting impact on my Sim (this is also to do with a lack of Memories which is mostly beyond the scope of this explanation but does add to the overall issue).
And granted in TS2, if a Sim were to Fear being fired and then it happened, and there Aspiration meter plummeted, they could slowly make it rise again by fulfilling Wants. So this too is not long lasting depending on how a player treats the situation. But the meter itself is permanent and constantly fluctuating (and in reality you’re really playing a game of tug of war against the meter) and at the end of a Sim’s life, that meter proves that the Sim lived, and lets you know if they were fulfilled or unfulfilled. It’s not that I want to make my Sim have a miserable life. I love making my Sims happy, and that’s why the push and pull of the Aspiration meter is so fun for me. The game is working against me to make my Sims miserable, and I the player have to fight to make sure that doesn’t happen. I feel like I’m actually playing with a Simulator.
In TS4, that’s just not possible (see above regarding Aspirations tied to Personality).
Tie this into the fact that yes there are undeniably so many avenues for earning money and not enough things to spend all the money on. I personally feel like the game is unbalanced in a way that makes my Sims lives easier.
Hope this makes sense.
You and I play pretty similarly. I, however, have found myself having to mod the game more and more the longer I play. Not for features, but for bugs that break immersion and totally tick me off enough that I have to shut down the game and find a mod or make one myself.
Now don't get me wrong, I like the game enough that I'm playing it nearly everyday, but there are things that do need improvement. I think a lot of playstyle were left behind and it's frustrating. Like for me, a family player who absolutely loves children, the game is seriously lacking in that department. And people's frustration manifest in different ways, but I think most people are really just trying to wave their hands and get anyone to listen. I don't always agree with everything, but I do empathize with players who want to get what they're missing.
I think, in general, there are some areas where there's not enough control given to the player which also affects how easily money can be earned. For example, there's no mechanic that allows the player to choose whether to accept or decline a promotion. As long as your Sim gains the skills and go to work, it's mostly out of your hands. The only way to prevent this is to stop Sims from leveling up, or have them slack off at work. Well what if I want my Sim to have the skills, and be a diligent worker, I just want them to stay where they are career wise? Why am I either made to choose between keeping them at a lower level of education, make them a bad worker, or just skyrocketing them to success?
Another thing is with the musical instruments, Sims just come up to your Sim and give them money if they're playing. My Sims don't play for tips but they get them anyways as long as they're playing in public and other Sims are around. Now, I understand that often irl people would probably do this too, but I'd rather just actively choose play for tips and know that's what my goal is rather than just receive money because I just wanted my Sim to strum in the park. Idk, this one really just might be a nitpicky thing that bothers only me, but lol, I really don't like this mechanic.
Another thing is because a lot of things are only thrown away with a return of money, it's very easy to get money. I renovate my Sims house, I sell her old bed to buy a new one. I don't get a chance to just throw the old bed away for free. I renovate the kitchen; I get money back for the counters, I can't just throw them away. So many objects, whether bought, created, or found, can't be discarded with no monetary gain. I'm sure you could gift things away, donate to a museum, build a landfill lot, etc. find other ways of removing something from a Sim's inventory without earning money from it, but the point is there's no direct way to be free of an object without earning money from the mechanics in place in the Inventory system. There's the Sell function. There is no Discard function (unless it's for spoiled food). This is what it means to be unbalanced. There is only one side, one option.
I think what @SimmerGeorge is saying is that the people who make these statements know that from a literal standpoint. So, LITERALLY they know it's not everyone or no one. It's a way to illustrate that ENOUGH people feel that way. This is what he explains in the rest of his post. @SimmerGeorge can correct me if I've misunderstood him too.
@NationalPokedex Yes. Thank you that was exactly what I was trying to say. And I also said that players who have criticized certain packs etc are NOT just a vocal minority.
Because thats how they feel. Its for the same reason people say Sims 4 is the best game in the iteration and the best game of all time.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.