It's like we the player have nothing to think about... I mean there is a fair bit of content for our simmies to do... but nothing that we the player have to work towards. I'm not sure I am explaining this clearly. With nectar making (sorry to keep using that as an example but it's the only thing I can think of) I had to figure out which grapes when well together... work out if flame fruit/ life fruit added to the complexity and final money value...etc but in TS4... with everything, my sims just do it and I watch.
Well, there's gardening that sort of do this, with slicing and discovering new fruits/vegetables, assuming you don't just go and look on the Internet. Then there's the fishing with different lure/different place to find all the fish. And the frog breeding.
That's true, gardening is almost complex. It becomes a bit grindy when you are just waiting to level up. Frog breeding is too simple although I like the concept. Usually only takes my sim 2 days and he's completed the collection. As for fishing, the different bait doesn't really work. I've actually just completed the fishing ace today and my sim caught everything with Basil.
It's just like with these examples... it just doesn't quite reach my expectations. I still like these aspects of the game and most of my sims complete these elements but it's still just not... enough.
I'm a girl who likes to play with boys, what can I say...
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
I, myself do not see Sims 4 as a complex program being it does not run many complex features and if it was complex those with low end machines would have a fit because Sims 4 was engineered to run well on those machines.
what's the use of a well running game if it's boring after a short time ?
& in the end, the answer to boredom by adding more new stuff is defeating the purpose to run on weaker machines
same as it is to pep it up with mods & CC
Exactly, there is nothing intriguing about Sims 4 to keep playing long periods of times and when I leave the game I do not think about what I am going to do when I go back in. So much is missing from this game for me and it will be interesting to see how much the new packs will bring to the game. I hope the new Restaurant is set up to run like Sim 2 with some new twists and better than Sims 3 take on restaurant and also have some editing tools as well.
Omen by HP Intel®️ Core™️ i9- 12900K W/ RGB Liquid Cooler 32GB Nvidia RTX 3080 10Gb ASUS Ultra-Wide 34" Curved Monitor. Omen By HP Intel® Core™ i7-12800HX 32 GB Nvidia 3070 Ti 8 GB 17.3 Screen
I, myself do not see Sims 4 as a complex program being it does not run many complex features and if it was complex those with low end machines would have a fit because Sims 4 was engineered to run well on those machines.
what's the use of a well running game if it's boring after a short time ?
That is a phrase I ask myself a lot. I seriously wonder how many people who are just begging for all these big features in TS4 are the same people who have made it impossible because they are the same people who wanted The Sims 4 to play on their low-end comp. I don't think some realize YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH WAYS. No matter how hard the devs tried.
Complexity requires better computers to play the game, if you can't play the game then sorry, but you can't hold the people who do have better computers back from a better game, you know that would be wrong on your part. Maybe the devs could come out with a Lite version like The Sims Stories.
Yes it does need more complexity, the problem like it was pointed out in the op is that the engine the game is build on just can't handle the complexity we expect. We may see certain features return however they will never be as complex as features in previous versions of the game....they will be present, just very watered down.
Do we know that for a fact or are you just surmising? I had hoped that game-play complexity would be added over time. If it is a fact that the game engine can't handle the complexity that this game needs then that might just be a deciding factor for me and my wallet.
By complexity I am meaning, as an example, gem collecting in TS3... many to collect, and cut and transform etc or nectar making with all the huge number of possible combinations and outcomes. Can TS4 really never deliver this? ? ?
TS4 can be complex, but for any complexity added, they'll ask themselves, "is it worth it ?" because they can't add everything. And of course their answer to that question may not be the one you would like.
Apparently complexity was worth it when TS2 was designed. But now games are too hard for us to learn so I guess adjustments had to be made.
Back in the 1990s games still usually had about 5 difficulty for us to choose among (from "very easy" to "very hard"). But today this never happens anymore and games now usually only have one difficulty degree which we just have to like if we want to play the game at all. Also since then this one difficulty degree has become lower and lower (with only few exceptions). So it seems that this is the tendency: People want easier lives and the game companies therefore give us easier and easier games.
Personally I don't like this tendency at all and I really miss the 1980s and 1990s where we could fine tune the difficulty degrees in games to our own likings.
The Sims games have always had too low difficulty degrees for my taste even though TS1 had the highest difficulty degree among them. But TS4 still has the lowest difficulty degree ever which is the main reason why I don't play the game anymore.
a simulation is not about being difficult but about being rich in options to make different paths in life for the creatures
& to make different ways to play it in different playstyles possible
the mobile gaming has developed its own form of difficulty
if you don't pay then you have to wait out
other than that
difficulty levels are still being included in games, eg :
Warhammer: End Times - Vermintide
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
Inexistence
12 Labours of Hercules
...
The difference between the Sims 1 and the Sims 4 is that it was hard work to build relationships especially in the Sims 1. This became easier in the following games and in the Sims 4 you can even get two sims married about a minute after they met.
The other thing I never have like is that the sims easily earn huge amounts of money all the time. They even get paid to move out of the house. But I have no need for all that money which only makes the game trivial and uninteresting for me to play.
The waiting time in freeware games for especially mobile devices (but also for the PC - just search Microsoft's store for free PC games!) isn't about difficulty degrees at all. When I evaluate a game like the Tribez as many times harder than the Sims Freeplay it is instead about the game size and unpredictability in the game. In TSF it is still quite obvious what will happen next. But this isn't the case at all in the Tribez where you always wonder how to unlock things or how and when you will get access to more technologies and new islands. The waiting time (where you can play other games or do other things) doesn't increase the difficulty degree because everybody can wait
In TS4 they now seem to have recognized that the game needs challenges because the gameplay otherwise has become to easy, trivial and boring. But it isn't enough for me to get back to giving TS4 a new try though. I will instead wait and see if they include better gameplay in TS5 before I expect to play more Sims games on my laptop.
you can't compare the first installment with the fourth
as the devs have began with TheSims nobody knew what will come out of it, it could have been a total gaming desaster, they did what they saw fit as they didn't have any experience with anybody playing it, so it was how it was
from the current perspective it may seem hard but it's doubtful that it was made with the objective to make it hard
TS4 is boring not only because it's too easy,
it has in general difficulties to balance the gameplay besides of the fact that there is just too little to do & what's there is too streamlined
& with mobile gaming,
you might find waiting easy, others find it hard, cause people are different
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
It's like we the player have nothing to think about... I mean there is a fair bit of content for our simmies to do... but nothing that we the player have to work towards. I'm not sure I am explaining this clearly. With nectar making (sorry to keep using that as an example but it's the only thing I can think of) I had to figure out which grapes when well together... work out if flame fruit/ life fruit added to the complexity and final money value...etc but in TS4... with everything, my sims just do it and I watch.
Well, there's gardening that sort of do this, with slicing and discovering new fruits/vegetables, assuming you don't just go and look on the Internet. Then there's the fishing with different lure/different place to find all the fish. And the frog breeding.
That's true, gardening is almost complex. It becomes a bit grindy when you are just waiting to level up. Frog breeding is too simple although I like the concept. Usually only takes my sim 2 days and he's completed the collection. As for fishing, the different bait doesn't really work. I've actually just completed the fishing ace today and my sim caught everything with Basil.
It's just like with these examples... it just doesn't quite reach my expectations. I still like these aspects of the game and most of my sims complete these elements but it's still just not... enough.
i think this is the problem
you play all that to complete
you do not play all that because that's the life of the sim
the objectives in this iteration changed, away from playing the life of sims to completing the objectives themselves through the sims
those sims became avatars & that's why their personality is so negligible
& overall i dislike gardening in this game, its mechanics are unrealistic & it's all somehow like made of plastic
in TS3 was gardening my prefered interaction, besides of playing a detective & jogging with the sim
i liked also gardening in TS2, gardening in TS4 is a huge disappointment to me, it feels unreal like baking with sand
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
I, myself do not see Sims 4 as a complex program being it does not run many complex features and if it was complex those with low end machines would have a fit because Sims 4 was engineered to run well on those machines.
what's the use of a well running game if it's boring after a short time ?
That is a phrase I ask myself a lot. I seriously wonder how many people who are just begging for all these big features in TS4 are the same people who have made it impossible because they are the same people who wanted The Sims 4 to play on their low-end comp. I don't think some realize YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH WAYS. No matter how hard the devs tried.
Complexity requires better computers to play the game, if you can't play the game then sorry, but you can't hold the people who do have better computers back from a better game, you know that would be wrong on your part. Maybe the devs could come out with a Lite version like The Sims Stories.
So how is it that TS2 is much more complex and it runs fine on most computers?
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
I, myself do not see Sims 4 as a complex program being it does not run many complex features and if it was complex those with low end machines would have a fit because Sims 4 was engineered to run well on those machines.
what's the use of a well running game if it's boring after a short time ?
That is a phrase I ask myself a lot. I seriously wonder how many people who are just begging for all these big features in TS4 are the same people who have made it impossible because they are the same people who wanted The Sims 4 to play on their low-end comp. I don't think some realize YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH WAYS. No matter how hard the devs tried.
Complexity requires better computers to play the game, if you can't play the game then sorry, but you can't hold the people who do have better computers back from a better game, you know that would be wrong on your part. Maybe the devs could come out with a Lite version like The Sims Stories.
So how is it that TS2 is much more complex and it runs fine on most computers?
TS2 runs well because it's not even a semi open world like TS4 one is
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
I, myself do not see Sims 4 as a complex program being it does not run many complex features and if it was complex those with low end machines would have a fit because Sims 4 was engineered to run well on those machines.
what's the use of a well running game if it's boring after a short time ?
That is a phrase I ask myself a lot. I seriously wonder how many people who are just begging for all these big features in TS4 are the same people who have made it impossible because they are the same people who wanted The Sims 4 to play on their low-end comp. I don't think some realize YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH WAYS. No matter how hard the devs tried.
Complexity requires better computers to play the game, if you can't play the game then sorry, but you can't hold the people who do have better computers back from a better game, you know that would be wrong on your part. Maybe the devs could come out with a Lite version like The Sims Stories.
So how is it that TS2 is much more complex and it runs fine on most computers?
TS2 runs well because it's not even a semi open world like TS4 one is
It's because the majority of us are running it on much newer machines, built <10 years after its release.
If they wanted to build a complex, open world Sims game, that also has optimal performance exceeding TS3, I have no doubts it is possible. It was possible back in 2009, too.
TS2 Sims have more animation and interactions and are more complex than TS4 Sims. What I'm saying is that TS2 is more in depth as far as game play and runs well on most of today's computers. So if TS2 runs well and has more complexity why isn't it possible to build a complex game today that would run on the same computers?
I mean we have been talking about game play, it's complexity and difficulty...not open/closed worlds.
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
I, myself do not see Sims 4 as a complex program being it does not run many complex features and if it was complex those with low end machines would have a fit because Sims 4 was engineered to run well on those machines.
what's the use of a well running game if it's boring after a short time ?
That is a phrase I ask myself a lot. I seriously wonder how many people who are just begging for all these big features in TS4 are the same people who have made it impossible because they are the same people who wanted The Sims 4 to play on their low-end comp. I don't think some realize YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH WAYS. No matter how hard the devs tried.
Complexity requires better computers to play the game, if you can't play the game then sorry, but you can't hold the people who do have better computers back from a better game, you know that would be wrong on your part. Maybe the devs could come out with a Lite version like The Sims Stories.
So how is it that TS2 is much more complex and it runs fine on most computers?
TS2 runs well because it's not even a semi open world like TS4 one is
It's because the majority of us are running it on much newer machines, built <10 years after its release.
If they wanted to build a complex, open world Sims game, that also has optimal performance exceeding TS3, I have no doubts it is possible. It was possible back in 2009, too.
but not with a 32bit bottleneck
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
TS2 Sims have more animation and interactions and are more complex than TS4 Sims. What I'm saying is that TS2 is more in depth as far as game play and runs well on most of today's computers. So if TS2 runs well and has more complexity why isn't it possible to build a complex game today that would run on the same computers?
I mean we have been talking about game play, it's complexity and difficulty...not open/closed worlds.
complexity of interactions must be computed
especially that one in the background
TS2 does that by limitation to one active lot only at a time with the sacrifice of time consistency throughout the neighborhood
since TS4 is not completely one lot only so it has to make cuts somewhere else
some players find the cuts made are not so hurtful to their way of playing the game
while other players find that vital parts were cut out
TS4 cuts include less complexity everywhere
& it tries to offer in exchange the overall smoothness & the appearance of liveness
by adding abundant backdrops, animated wanderers, overexpression, talkativeness
it's the main question
what is vital to that franchise to be mandatory & what can be cut out
& some players & apparently also the devs of TS4 find that complexity & authenticity of happenings are not a vital part of TheSims franchise
at least not so far ...
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
hae ?
TS4 is meantime 64bit, so what are you talking about ?
are you mixing here the 32bit TS3 with the 64bit TS4
& what exactly do you mean by 'massive complexity' in Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress & Fallout 3 ?
it cannot be personality ...
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
The difference between the Sims 1 and the Sims 4 is that it was hard work to build relationships especially in the Sims 1. This became easier in the following games and in the Sims 4 you can even get two sims married about a minute after they met.
The other thing I never have like is that the sims easily earn huge amounts of money all the time. They even get paid to move out of the house. But I have no need for all that money which only makes the game trivial and uninteresting for me to play.
The waiting time in freeware games for especially mobile devices (but also for the PC - just search Microsoft's store for free PC games!) isn't about difficulty degrees at all. When I evaluate a game like the Tribez as many times harder than the Sims Freeplay it is instead about the game size and unpredictability in the game. In TSF it is still quite obvious what will happen next. But this isn't the case at all in the Tribez where you always wonder how to unlock things or how and when you will get access to more technologies and new islands. The waiting time (where you can play other games or do other things) doesn't increase the difficulty degree because everybody can wait
In TS4 they now seem to have recognized that the game needs challenges because the gameplay otherwise has become to easy, trivial and boring. But it isn't enough for me to get back to giving TS4 a new try though. I will instead wait and see if they include better gameplay in TS5 before I expect to play more Sims games on my laptop.
you can't compare the first installment with the fourth
as the devs have began with TheSims nobody knew what will come out of it, it could have been a total gaming desaster, they did what they saw fit as they didn't have any experience with anybody playing it, so it was how it was
from the current perspective it may seem hard but it's doubtful that it was made with the objective to make it hard
TS4 is boring not only because it's too easy,
it has in general difficulties to balance the gameplay besides of the fact that there is just too little to do & what's there is too streamlined
& with mobile gaming,
you might find waiting easy, others find it hard, cause people are different
Some people find free mobile games difficult because they don't understand them and expect to play them constantly without waiting times. Then they realize that this isn't possible without paying unreasonable amounts of money all the time. Then they become angry and feel cheated. But this has nothing with difficulty degrees to do.
You also write "mobile gaming" like you assume that all mobile games are just such free online games with waiting times. But there are many different games for mobile devices too. Many of those games can even be played completely offline and don't have any waiting times at all. They can also be devided in groups like small casual games (which usually run well even on cheap phones) and big complex games which are expensive and often only run on the newest and most powerful tablets.
TS4 is boring for several reasons:
1. They lowered the difficulty degree so making friendly or romantic relations goes so fast that it is done in a minute to change our focus to the new emotions and all the new collections. They also wanted us to focus more on making sims and building houses instead of building relations between the sims.
2. They were too desperate about changing the game so simmers didn't just feel that they bought the same old game just once more.
3. The new multitasking was probably very difficult and tricky to make. But it doesn't improve gameplay enough to really be worth it.
4. The new emotions work like a too desperate attempt to renew the game too because they work too randomly and there isn't any good logic behind the way they work. It isn't interesting when the sims just get a new unreasonable emotion just because they are near a certain object or whatever.
5. They wanted too hard to force us to use a lot of time on making sims and building houses even if we didn't want to. But the game only becomes more boring when they give us less freedom to play like we want.
So they sacrificed a lot just because they desperately wanted to renew the game. But they did only find less interesting things to replace the old way of building relations and simulating the life of the sims.
CAS and build mode were improved though. But making dolls and dollhouses for them to live in never had anything to do with my own interest in the Sims games. Actually I have always prefered to let almost all my sims live in small cheap houses with only the most necessary things - and I don't see the sims as dolls but as humans - and I don't make or attempt to change humans because I just want to accept everybody for what they are. Therefore TS4 isn't a game for me at all - even though I actually loved the Sims 2.
Not necessarily complexity as in making the game harder, but complex as in more dynamic and different personalities. I still believe TS1 and 2's personalities' point system worked better at delivering various different personalities. Combine that with Aspirations, Secondary Aspirations, Life Experiences, Memories, and Turn On's and Turn Off's, The Sims 2 sims, I feel, have the most diverse types of REAL personalities to date, which is quite apparent when viewing the sims want's and fears which are always effected by every single thing I had listed. So much little things went into these sims, but now with TS3 and 4 all the sims get are traits which impact them at face value and nothing else seems to influence their personalities. Give two different sims the same traits and they are the EXACT SAME. No two sims were ever really the same in The Sims 2.
And it's this complexity that is absent in TS3 and 4 that I feel what causes people to find these games to be soulless. Not because of the lack of toddlers, or other objects and gameplay, but because The Sims personalities themselves are so underdeveloped and unrealized.
I have a few ideas on how the devs could improve this for The Sims 4, but I'm not sure if the game engine would support it
I think that personality combined with emotions would add some complexity.
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
hae ?
TS4 is meantime 64bit, so what are you talking about ?
are you mixing here the 32bit TS3 with the 64bit TS4
& what exactly do you mean by 'massive complexity' in Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress & Fallout 3 ?
it cannot be personality ...
TS4 is 64-bit 'now' but it's basically a 32-bit game and can still be run on WinXP 32-bit.
Skyrim, while it doesn't have massive complexity of personalities, it does have massive complexity in the sheer amount of calculations running to operate its physics engine, you can easily Fus Ro Dah a dining table with a feast on it and every single object will be calculated.
The same can be said of Fallout 3, but Dwarf Fortress is a fantasy world simulator that does have a massive and very complex personality interaction system for each person in the game world, which can easily number over 5,000 people all with their own personalities, add to that the sheer detail and complexity behind their bodypart system (where it's even possible to damage nerves, tendons, ETC in specific parts of the body) and it is an immensely complex game.
The Sims 4, even by comparison to the Sims 2 (and in some regards even the Sims 1) is primitive by comparison... Yes TS2 had only a single lot active at once, but even the lowest common machine in use today should have easily been able to handle more lots whilst simultaneously keeping the in depth personalities and interactivity between sims going.
The Sims 3 & 4 fail because of screw-ups in the design of the games, their broken pathing, ETC.
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
hae ?
TS4 is meantime 64bit, so what are you talking about ?
are you mixing here the 32bit TS3 with the 64bit TS4
& what exactly do you mean by 'massive complexity' in Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress & Fallout 3 ?
it cannot be personality ...
TS4 is 64-bit 'now' but it's basically a 32-bit game and can still be run on WinXP 32-bit.
Skyrim, while it doesn't have massive complexity of personalities, it does have massive complexity in the sheer amount of calculations running to operate its physics engine, you can easily Fus Ro Dah a dining table with a feast on it and every single object will be calculated.
The same can be said of Fallout 3, but Dwarf Fortress is a fantasy world simulator that does have a massive and very complex personality interaction system for each person in the game world, which can easily number over 5,000 people all with their own personalities, add to that the sheer detail and complexity behind their bodypart system (where it's even possible to damage nerves, tendons, ETC in specific parts of the body) and it is an immensely complex game.
The Sims 4, even by comparison to the Sims 2 (and in some regards even the Sims 1) is primitive by comparison... Yes TS2 had only a single lot active at once, but even the lowest common machine in use today should have easily been able to handle more lots whilst simultaneously keeping the in depth personalities and interactivity between sims going.
The Sims 3 & 4 fail because of screw-ups in the design of the games, their broken pathing, ETC.
100% Agree.
A fully functional, working, and lively open world is possible now, just as much as back then, in 2009.
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
Yes, so far nobody has ever convinced me it's not exactly that. When you play the game with other simmers there's no need for characters to be complex: the other player adds the complexity (by being human and having their own input).
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
hae ?
TS4 is meantime 64bit, so what are you talking about ?
are you mixing here the 32bit TS3 with the 64bit TS4
& what exactly do you mean by 'massive complexity' in Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress & Fallout 3 ?
it cannot be personality ...
TS4 is 64-bit 'now' but it's basically a 32-bit game and can still be run on WinXP 32-bit.
Skyrim, while it doesn't have massive complexity of personalities, it does have massive complexity in the sheer amount of calculations running to operate its physics engine, you can easily Fus Ro Dah a dining table with a feast on it and every single object will be calculated.
The same can be said of Fallout 3, but Dwarf Fortress is a fantasy world simulator that does have a massive and very complex personality interaction system for each person in the game world, which can easily number over 5,000 people all with their own personalities, add to that the sheer detail and complexity behind their bodypart system (where it's even possible to damage nerves, tendons, ETC in specific parts of the body) and it is an immensely complex game.
The Sims 4, even by comparison to the Sims 2 (and in some regards even the Sims 1) is primitive by comparison... Yes TS2 had only a single lot active at once, but even the lowest common machine in use today should have easily been able to handle more lots whilst simultaneously keeping the in depth personalities and interactivity between sims going.
The Sims 3 & 4 fail because of screw-ups in the design of the games, their broken pathing, ETC.
100% Agree.
A fully functional, working, and lively open world is possible now, just as much as back then, in 2009.
& if it is possible so where are the developers which make a game like TheSims & not another RPG or survival game or MMO ?
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
hae ?
TS4 is meantime 64bit, so what are you talking about ?
are you mixing here the 32bit TS3 with the 64bit TS4
& what exactly do you mean by 'massive complexity' in Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress & Fallout 3 ?
it cannot be personality ...
TS4 is 64-bit 'now' but it's basically a 32-bit game and can still be run on WinXP 32-bit.
Skyrim, while it doesn't have massive complexity of personalities, it does have massive complexity in the sheer amount of calculations running to operate its physics engine, you can easily Fus Ro Dah a dining table with a feast on it and every single object will be calculated.
The same can be said of Fallout 3, but Dwarf Fortress is a fantasy world simulator that does have a massive and very complex personality interaction system for each person in the game world, which can easily number over 5,000 people all with their own personalities, add to that the sheer detail and complexity behind their bodypart system (where it's even possible to damage nerves, tendons, ETC in specific parts of the body) and it is an immensely complex game.
The Sims 4, even by comparison to the Sims 2 (and in some regards even the Sims 1) is primitive by comparison... Yes TS2 had only a single lot active at once, but even the lowest common machine in use today should have easily been able to handle more lots whilst simultaneously keeping the in depth personalities and interactivity between sims going.
The Sims 3 & 4 fail because of screw-ups in the design of the games, their broken pathing, ETC.
100% Agree.
A fully functional, working, and lively open world is possible now, just as much as back then, in 2009.
& if it is possible so where are the developers which make a game like TheSims & not another RPG or survival game or MMO ?
Perhaps not at The Sims Studios. A lot of the developers there seem to have extensive mobile, Facebook, and browser "gaming" background. Also, it isn't like an RPG game is an entirely different breed of game compared to The Sims. I don't understand this whole rhetoric that it is apples and oranges, when, in reality, many RPGs have a LOT more simulation and processes in the background than present day Sims games.
I'm just not going to buy their excuse that it is not feasible. They said offline access with SimCity 2013 was impossible and it required online access, yet a modder proved them wrong. Months later, after huge backlash, they made it offline. Laughable.
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
hae ?
TS4 is meantime 64bit, so what are you talking about ?
are you mixing here the 32bit TS3 with the 64bit TS4
& what exactly do you mean by 'massive complexity' in Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress & Fallout 3 ?
it cannot be personality ...
TS4 is 64-bit 'now' but it's basically a 32-bit game and can still be run on WinXP 32-bit.
Skyrim, while it doesn't have massive complexity of personalities, it does have massive complexity in the sheer amount of calculations running to operate its physics engine, you can easily Fus Ro Dah a dining table with a feast on it and every single object will be calculated.
The same can be said of Fallout 3, but Dwarf Fortress is a fantasy world simulator that does have a massive and very complex personality interaction system for each person in the game world, which can easily number over 5,000 people all with their own personalities, add to that the sheer detail and complexity behind their bodypart system (where it's even possible to damage nerves, tendons, ETC in specific parts of the body) and it is an immensely complex game.
The Sims 4, even by comparison to the Sims 2 (and in some regards even the Sims 1) is primitive by comparison... Yes TS2 had only a single lot active at once, but even the lowest common machine in use today should have easily been able to handle more lots whilst simultaneously keeping the in depth personalities and interactivity between sims going.
The Sims 3 & 4 fail because of screw-ups in the design of the games, their broken pathing, ETC.
100% Agree.
A fully functional, working, and lively open world is possible now, just as much as back then, in 2009.
& if it is possible so where are the developers which make a game like TheSims & not another RPG or survival game or MMO ?
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
hae ?
TS4 is meantime 64bit, so what are you talking about ?
are you mixing here the 32bit TS3 with the 64bit TS4
& what exactly do you mean by 'massive complexity' in Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress & Fallout 3 ?
it cannot be personality ...
TS4 is 64-bit 'now' but it's basically a 32-bit game and can still be run on WinXP 32-bit.
Skyrim, while it doesn't have massive complexity of personalities, it does have massive complexity in the sheer amount of calculations running to operate its physics engine, you can easily Fus Ro Dah a dining table with a feast on it and every single object will be calculated.
The same can be said of Fallout 3, but Dwarf Fortress is a fantasy world simulator that does have a massive and very complex personality interaction system for each person in the game world, which can easily number over 5,000 people all with their own personalities, add to that the sheer detail and complexity behind their bodypart system (where it's even possible to damage nerves, tendons, ETC in specific parts of the body) and it is an immensely complex game.
The Sims 4, even by comparison to the Sims 2 (and in some regards even the Sims 1) is primitive by comparison... Yes TS2 had only a single lot active at once, but even the lowest common machine in use today should have easily been able to handle more lots whilst simultaneously keeping the in depth personalities and interactivity between sims going.
The Sims 3 & 4 fail because of screw-ups in the design of the games, their broken pathing, ETC.
100% Agree.
A fully functional, working, and lively open world is possible now, just as much as back then, in 2009.
& if it is possible so where are the developers which make a game like TheSims & not another RPG or survival game or MMO ?
Game developers can make about any possible game type. So your question is more like "Where are the painters who are able to paint the walls in a room yellow instead of pink?" because employees usually attempt to do what their employers told them to do. Therefore a painter doesn't paint a room yellow if he is told to paint it pink and a game developer doesn't attempt to make a complex life simulation game for adults if he is told by EA to make a simple dollhouse simulation for 13 yrs olds who mostly only have played small casual games and can't be expected to have strong gaming computers. So the game should have low minimum requirements and maybe also a few simple RPG elements to create variation. Maybe he is also told by EA to focus more on CAS and build mode because EA wants it to be a dollhouse simulation.
If you don't believe this then you should read biographies about some game developers because then you will see that they most often have worked on very different types of games
An example is Sam Player who was senior producer on most of the Sims 2 EPs. Then he was executive producer on console versions of TS3, SimAnimals and other games for consoles. Earlier he was also senior producer on a lot of PGA Tour golf games both in PC versions and in versions for several different consoles. He has also been a lead designer of 3D Baseball for PlayStation. So why would you think that he only can make one single type of games?
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
Yes, so far nobody has ever convinced me it's not exactly that. When you play the game with other simmers there's no need for characters to be complex: the other player adds the complexity (by being human and having their own input).
There's also not much need for different ages either, what we're dealing with is not EA's attempt at allowing as many customers to play as possible, but rather EA's attempt to scrape together the broken remains of Olympus.
Oh not that 'again'... The reasons for all the cuts from this game have nothing to do with them wanting to run it on a 32-bit system, in fact the lack of complexity, the cuts to the content AND the need to run it on low end machines all stem from the same source; They wanted it to be an online game.
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
Yes, so far nobody has ever convinced me it's not exactly that. When you play the game with other simmers there's no need for characters to be complex: the other player adds the complexity (by being human and having their own input).
There's also not much need for different ages either, what we're dealing with is not EA's attempt at allowing as many customers to play as possible, but rather EA's attempt to scrape together the broken remains of Olympus.
Yes. Just like every murder which have happened since 1945 has just been the murderer's attempt to scrape together the broken remains of the Third Reich? Alas the real world isn't as simple as that
Comments
That's true, gardening is almost complex. It becomes a bit grindy when you are just waiting to level up. Frog breeding is too simple although I like the concept. Usually only takes my sim 2 days and he's completed the collection. As for fishing, the different bait doesn't really work. I've actually just completed the fishing ace today and my sim caught everything with Basil.
It's just like with these examples... it just doesn't quite reach my expectations. I still like these aspects of the game and most of my sims complete these elements but it's still just not... enough.
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
That is a phrase I ask myself a lot. I seriously wonder how many people who are just begging for all these big features in TS4 are the same people who have made it impossible because they are the same people who wanted The Sims 4 to play on their low-end comp. I don't think some realize YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH WAYS. No matter how hard the devs tried.
Complexity requires better computers to play the game, if you can't play the game then sorry, but you can't hold the people who do have better computers back from a better game, you know that would be wrong on your part. Maybe the devs could come out with a Lite version like The Sims Stories.
as the devs have began with TheSims nobody knew what will come out of it, it could have been a total gaming desaster, they did what they saw fit as they didn't have any experience with anybody playing it, so it was how it was
from the current perspective it may seem hard but it's doubtful that it was made with the objective to make it hard
TS4 is boring not only because it's too easy,
it has in general difficulties to balance the gameplay besides of the fact that there is just too little to do & what's there is too streamlined
& with mobile gaming,
you might find waiting easy, others find it hard, cause people are different
you play all that to complete
you do not play all that because that's the life of the sim
the objectives in this iteration changed, away from playing the life of sims to completing the objectives themselves through the sims
those sims became avatars & that's why their personality is so negligible
& overall i dislike gardening in this game, its mechanics are unrealistic & it's all somehow like made of plastic
in TS3 was gardening my prefered interaction, besides of playing a detective & jogging with the sim
i liked also gardening in TS2, gardening in TS4 is a huge disappointment to me, it feels unreal like baking with sand
So how is it that TS2 is much more complex and it runs fine on most computers?
It's because the majority of us are running it on much newer machines, built <10 years after its release.
If they wanted to build a complex, open world Sims game, that also has optimal performance exceeding TS3, I have no doubts it is possible. It was possible back in 2009, too.
TS2 Sims have more animation and interactions and are more complex than TS4 Sims. What I'm saying is that TS2 is more in depth as far as game play and runs well on most of today's computers. So if TS2 runs well and has more complexity why isn't it possible to build a complex game today that would run on the same computers?
I mean we have been talking about game play, it's complexity and difficulty...not open/closed worlds.
especially that one in the background
TS2 does that by limitation to one active lot only at a time with the sacrifice of time consistency throughout the neighborhood
since TS4 is not completely one lot only so it has to make cuts somewhere else
some players find the cuts made are not so hurtful to their way of playing the game
while other players find that vital parts were cut out
TS4 cuts include less complexity everywhere
& it tries to offer in exchange the overall smoothness & the appearance of liveness
by adding abundant backdrops, animated wanderers, overexpression, talkativeness
it's the main question
what is vital to that franchise to be mandatory & what can be cut out
& some players & apparently also the devs of TS4 find that complexity & authenticity of happenings are not a vital part of TheSims franchise
at least not so far ...
The excuse of wanting it to run on low end machines is nothing more than a cheap way to shift the blame from them (Eaxis) to the fans themselves (and I'm very sad to see it working on some people)... I've seen this exact behaviour before, with SC2013 EAxis claimed that our computers were not powerful enough to handle the 'complex calculations' behind the SimCity Glassbox engine, that's why it had to be an online game and they stuck to that excuse even after a modder showed them wrong.
There are games out there (that are 32-bit AND handle massive complexity as well, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress (and that's only single core), Fallout 3, ETC... It's all about 'how' you do it.
TS4 is meantime 64bit, so what are you talking about ?
are you mixing here the 32bit TS3 with the 64bit TS4
& what exactly do you mean by 'massive complexity' in Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress & Fallout 3 ?
it cannot be personality ...
You also write "mobile gaming" like you assume that all mobile games are just such free online games with waiting times. But there are many different games for mobile devices too. Many of those games can even be played completely offline and don't have any waiting times at all. They can also be devided in groups like small casual games (which usually run well even on cheap phones) and big complex games which are expensive and often only run on the newest and most powerful tablets.
TS4 is boring for several reasons:
1. They lowered the difficulty degree so making friendly or romantic relations goes so fast that it is done in a minute to change our focus to the new emotions and all the new collections. They also wanted us to focus more on making sims and building houses instead of building relations between the sims.
2. They were too desperate about changing the game so simmers didn't just feel that they bought the same old game just once more.
3. The new multitasking was probably very difficult and tricky to make. But it doesn't improve gameplay enough to really be worth it.
4. The new emotions work like a too desperate attempt to renew the game too because they work too randomly and there isn't any good logic behind the way they work. It isn't interesting when the sims just get a new unreasonable emotion just because they are near a certain object or whatever.
5. They wanted too hard to force us to use a lot of time on making sims and building houses even if we didn't want to. But the game only becomes more boring when they give us less freedom to play like we want.
So they sacrificed a lot just because they desperately wanted to renew the game. But they did only find less interesting things to replace the old way of building relations and simulating the life of the sims.
CAS and build mode were improved though. But making dolls and dollhouses for them to live in never had anything to do with my own interest in the Sims games. Actually I have always prefered to let almost all my sims live in small cheap houses with only the most necessary things - and I don't see the sims as dolls but as humans - and I don't make or attempt to change humans because I just want to accept everybody for what they are. Therefore TS4 isn't a game for me at all - even though I actually loved the Sims 2.
I think that personality combined with emotions would add some complexity.
TS4 is 64-bit 'now' but it's basically a 32-bit game and can still be run on WinXP 32-bit.
Skyrim, while it doesn't have massive complexity of personalities, it does have massive complexity in the sheer amount of calculations running to operate its physics engine, you can easily Fus Ro Dah a dining table with a feast on it and every single object will be calculated.
The same can be said of Fallout 3, but Dwarf Fortress is a fantasy world simulator that does have a massive and very complex personality interaction system for each person in the game world, which can easily number over 5,000 people all with their own personalities, add to that the sheer detail and complexity behind their bodypart system (where it's even possible to damage nerves, tendons, ETC in specific parts of the body) and it is an immensely complex game.
The Sims 4, even by comparison to the Sims 2 (and in some regards even the Sims 1) is primitive by comparison... Yes TS2 had only a single lot active at once, but even the lowest common machine in use today should have easily been able to handle more lots whilst simultaneously keeping the in depth personalities and interactivity between sims going.
The Sims 3 & 4 fail because of screw-ups in the design of the games, their broken pathing, ETC.
100% Agree.
A fully functional, working, and lively open world is possible now, just as much as back then, in 2009.
& if it is possible so where are the developers which make a game like TheSims & not another RPG or survival game or MMO ?
Perhaps not at The Sims Studios. A lot of the developers there seem to have extensive mobile, Facebook, and browser "gaming" background. Also, it isn't like an RPG game is an entirely different breed of game compared to The Sims. I don't understand this whole rhetoric that it is apples and oranges, when, in reality, many RPGs have a LOT more simulation and processes in the background than present day Sims games.
I'm just not going to buy their excuse that it is not feasible. They said offline access with SimCity 2013 was impossible and it required online access, yet a modder proved them wrong. Months later, after huge backlash, they made it offline. Laughable.
who wants to compete with the sims? not easy....
If you don't believe this then you should read biographies about some game developers because then you will see that they most often have worked on very different types of games
An example is Sam Player who was senior producer on most of the Sims 2 EPs. Then he was executive producer on console versions of TS3, SimAnimals and other games for consoles. Earlier he was also senior producer on a lot of PGA Tour golf games both in PC versions and in versions for several different consoles. He has also been a lead designer of 3D Baseball for PlayStation. So why would you think that he only can make one single type of games?
There's also not much need for different ages either, what we're dealing with is not EA's attempt at allowing as many customers to play as possible, but rather EA's attempt to scrape together the broken remains of Olympus.