How is 3 months 'way too long for an Expansion Pack'? Last time I checked, Expansion Packs are usually released every 6 months or so, The Sims 3 got to release EPs quicker because they had two different studios working on EPs.
The Maxis studio at SLC only developed four of the 21 packs released for the game: Showtime, Supernatural, University, and Into The Future. Any and all other packs (excluding TS3 Store content) were developed by The Sims Studio in Redwood Shores. Their trend of releasing a pack roughly every 6 months was around long before Salt Lake City started working on the PC game. Showtime released in 2012. Just a little less than 3 years after the game released, and after 5 expansions all developed in California.
Their inability to release content at a similar rate says nothing more than the game has terrible management. They had no issue with consistently releasing content until The Sims 4, which is under new management coming from the area of mobile games. It should be no surprise to anyone that this game is going downhill, it was set up for failure from the beginning when they started developing it as a online multiplayer game with a story mode tacked on later.
Now I do expect EP03 to be announced and released before the end of June, and EP04 to be announced and released this fall. They clearly can't handle releasing multiple GP's within a year (I don't see that platform sticking around much longer), but that is not something that EA will allow for their real money maker.
When you spend 3 weeks building a Oldsmobile, and decide you want a Ferrari instead, and take 2 weeks to build it out of the scraps you were using for the Oldsmobile, there's gonna be problems.....just sayin'.
I gave your post an awesome.
I really wish we had that Oldsmobile....I've heard that between ongoing service needs, the breakdowns and just how expensive the upkeep is, a Ferrari can be incredibly annoying to drive.
Post edited by PHOEBESMOM601 on
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
How is 3 months 'way too long for an Expansion Pack'? Last time I checked, Expansion Packs are usually released every 6 months or so, The Sims 3 got to release EPs quicker because they had two different studios working on EPs.
The Maxis studio at SLC only developed four of the 21 packs released for the game: Showtime, Supernatural, University, and Into The Future. Any and all other packs (excluding TS3 Store content) were developed by The Sims Studio in Redwood Shores. Their trend of releasing a pack roughly every 6 months was around long before Salt Lake City started working on the PC game. Showtime released in 2012. Just a little less than 3 years after the game released, and after 5 expansions all developed in California.
Their inability to release content at a similar rate says nothing more than the game has terrible management. They had no issue with consistently releasing content until The Sims 4, which is under new management coming from the area of mobile games. It should be no surprise to anyone that this game is going downhill, it was set up for failure from the beginning when they started developing it as a online multiplayer game with a story mode tacked on later.
Now I do expect EP03 to be announced and released before the end of June, and EP04 to be announced and released this fall. They clearly can't handle releasing multiple GP's within a year (I don't see that platform sticking around much longer), but that is not something that EA will allow for their real money maker.
And only 11 of those 21 Packs are Expansions. So, the inability to release content from a single studio at a similar rate is terrible management, despite the fact that there's a Pack release almost monthly, as well as Content Patches almost monthly? 'Set up for failure', yet still succeeding.
It truly is a no win situation for Maxis, whether they release Packs frequently or take time, people will just say the same things.
Live your life to the fullest, don't wait for a miracle to happen, be the miracle to make things happen.
Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
I wouldn't say anyone deserves a backlash, but it was expected especially with the events that befell SimCity. People are scared the same will befall the Sims. I guess people still have hope that Maxis will actually listen to their customer base which is a good thing. I'd be worried if there wasn't a backlash, because it would mean people would have give up on Maxis and the Sims completely and taken their business to other game genres and stop talking about the Sims 4 completely.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
How is 3 months 'way too long for an Expansion Pack'? Last time I checked, Expansion Packs are usually released every 6 months or so, The Sims 3 got to release EPs quicker because they had two different studios working on EPs.
The Maxis studio at SLC only developed four of the 21 packs released for the game: Showtime, Supernatural, University, and Into The Future. Any and all other packs (excluding TS3 Store content) were developed by The Sims Studio in Redwood Shores. Their trend of releasing a pack roughly every 6 months was around long before Salt Lake City started working on the PC game. Showtime released in 2012. Just a little less than 3 years after the game released, and after 5 expansions all developed in California.
Their inability to release content at a similar rate says nothing more than the game has terrible management. They had no issue with consistently releasing content until The Sims 4, which is under new management coming from the area of mobile games. It should be no surprise to anyone that this game is going downhill, it was set up for failure from the beginning when they started developing it as a online multiplayer game with a story mode tacked on later.
Now I do expect EP03 to be announced and released before the end of June, and EP04 to be announced and released this fall. They clearly can't handle releasing multiple GP's within a year (I don't see that platform sticking around much longer), but that is not something that EA will allow for their real money maker.
And only 11 of those 21 Packs are Expansions. So, the inability to release content from a single studio at a similar rate is terrible management, despite the fact that there's a Pack release almost monthly, as well as Content Patches almost monthly? 'Set up for failure', yet still succeeding.
It truly is a no win situation for Maxis, whether they release Packs frequently or take time, people will just say the same things.
Lol
Their stuff packs are $10 DLC that can be made in a month, low-risk, low investment. They can cash in all they want on that, because that is the equivalent to the store. It's not their money maker, it's a short term profit driver. Game packs are $20, and EP's are $40. I'm assuming Spa Day sold relatively well, so their inability to produce more than one shouldn't be due to poor sales.
What I'm saying is that this is a fully staffed studio, the fact they don't have a schedule for releases (or a pattern) says clearly they have no control over their products. Game Packs are the newest content platform, any other business would be pumping them out like crazy. Yet Maxis can't get more than one out per FY. What exactly does that tell you?
Tells me yes, the game has terrible management. Has since the very beginning. Not only are these people not delivering NEW content on a timely basis, which is what they said their goal for this game was, they are also not moving very quickly to adding in features nixed out of the base game. Content patches? Please give me the last content patch that wasn't developed along side a pack. As far as I'm concerned these content patches aren't introducing what's missing, they're throwing free stuff at the player hoping they'll buy the rest of the pack.
I actually was hoping Game Packs would be replacing Stuff packs. I don't mind Gurus taking time on packs, but so far a lot of the packs seem rushed and like an afterthought. I mean even things like worlds or supernaturals don't even seem to matter anymore. It is like they focus so much on releasing stuff and fluff to make Sims look "pretty", that they forget to put gameplay tools and features that actually make the Sims games fun to play. It is no wonder then live mode is the weakest area of the game.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
How is 3 months 'way too long for an Expansion Pack'? Last time I checked, Expansion Packs are usually released every 6 months or so, The Sims 3 got to release EPs quicker because they had two different studios working on EPs.
The Maxis studio at SLC only developed four of the 21 packs released for the game: Showtime, Supernatural, University, and Into The Future. Any and all other packs (excluding TS3 Store content) were developed by The Sims Studio in Redwood Shores. Their trend of releasing a pack roughly every 6 months was around long before Salt Lake City started working on the PC game. Showtime released in 2012. Just a little less than 3 years after the game released, and after 5 expansions all developed in California.
Their inability to release content at a similar rate says nothing more than the game has terrible management. They had no issue with consistently releasing content until The Sims 4, which is under new management coming from the area of mobile games. It should be no surprise to anyone that this game is going downhill, it was set up for failure from the beginning when they started developing it as a online multiplayer game with a story mode tacked on later.
Now I do expect EP03 to be announced and released before the end of June, and EP04 to be announced and released this fall. They clearly can't handle releasing multiple GP's within a year (I don't see that platform sticking around much longer), but that is not something that EA will allow for their real money maker.
And only 11 of those 21 Packs are Expansions. So, the inability to release content from a single studio at a similar rate is terrible management, despite the fact that there's a Pack release almost monthly, as well as Content Patches almost monthly? 'Set up for failure', yet still succeeding.
It truly is a no win situation for Maxis, whether they release Packs frequently or take time, people will just say the same things.
Lol
Their stuff packs are $10 DLC that can be made in a month, low-risk, low investment. They can cash in all they want on that, because that is the equivalent to the store. It's not their money maker, it's a short term profit driver. Game packs are $20, and EP's are $40. I'm assuming Spa Day sold relatively well, so their inability to produce more than one shouldn't be due to poor sales.
What I'm saying is that this is a fully staffed studio, the fact they don't have a schedule for releases (or a pattern) says clearly they have no control over their products. Game Packs are the newest content platform, any other business would be pumping them out like crazy. Yet Maxis can't get more than one out per FY. What exactly does that tell you?
Tells me yes, the game has terrible management. Has since the very beginning. Not only are these people not delivering NEW content on a timely basis, which is what they said their goal for this game was, they are also not moving very quickly to adding in features nixed out of the base game. Content patches? Please give me the last content patch that wasn't developed along side a pack. As far as I'm concerned these content patches aren't introducing what's missing, they're throwing free stuff at the player hoping they'll buy the rest of the pack.
'Inability to produce more than one' they have produced more than one.
So the lack of a pattern or any schedule they may not be shown to the public makes you assume that they 'clearly' have no control over their products? You're making assumptions out of assumptions. It doesn't tell me anything specifically, I can only assume it's due to possibly several reasons, no one knows what happens with Game Packs behind the scenes or how much work they put into it, so all anyone can do who isn't a staff member that has access to this kind of information can only assume.
So a timely basis isn't almost every month? If you're referring specifically to Game Packs and Expansion Packs(which are not the only Packs that add content), the most we've had to wait between new content is about 5 months between Spa Day and Get Together(which was delayed and worked on for an extra month). What's 'missing' is relative and the last Patch(March 2016 Patch) wasn't released along a Pack. Well it seems to be working for some, heck, they did it with The Sims 3, giving a small percentage of content away in a Patch alongside an Expansion Pack.
Live your life to the fullest, don't wait for a miracle to happen, be the miracle to make things happen.
Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
Not really sure what was expected but their patch notes are typically pretty lackluster. Of course there is some speculation that they're working on something big so who knows.
They're always working on something "big". Something "big" in someone's mind, anyway.
I thought Maxis, per se, was no more? At any rate, I think EA is gradually giving up on TS4. Players I know are very disappointed and are giving up as well.
It's really sad but I have seen so much of this in the TS3 section. So many people there have thrown up their hands and gone back to TS3 or are playing TS4 very little and mainly playing TS3. I know a lot of people were disappointed in TS3 when it released and went back to TS2 but I know there weren't bunches of people still dropping off a year-and-a-half later.
Since the march patch my loading screens are 5 minutes long. I'm bored enough as it is without having to wait an extra 5 minutes for each loading screen.
My entire Sims 3 game loads faster than that.
Even my TS3 game loads faster than that with half the store and quite a number of CC files I recently added and haven't merged yet.
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How is 3 months 'way too long for an Expansion Pack'? Last time I checked, Expansion Packs are usually released every 6 months or so, The Sims 3 got to release EPs quicker because they had two different studios working on EPs.
The Maxis studio at SLC only developed four of the 21 packs released for the game: Showtime, Supernatural, University, and Into The Future. Any and all other packs (excluding TS3 Store content) were developed by The Sims Studio in Redwood Shores. Their trend of releasing a pack roughly every 6 months was around long before Salt Lake City started working on the PC game. Showtime released in 2012. Just a little less than 3 years after the game released, and after 5 expansions all developed in California.
Their inability to release content at a similar rate says nothing more than the game has terrible management. They had no issue with consistently releasing content until The Sims 4, which is under new management coming from the area of mobile games. It should be no surprise to anyone that this game is going downhill, it was set up for failure from the beginning when they started developing it as a online multiplayer game with a story mode tacked on later.
Now I do expect EP03 to be announced and released before the end of June, and EP04 to be announced and released this fall. They clearly can't handle releasing multiple GP's within a year (I don't see that platform sticking around much longer), but that is not something that EA will allow for their real money maker.
And only 11 of those 21 Packs are Expansions. So, the inability to release content from a single studio at a similar rate is terrible management, despite the fact that there's a Pack release almost monthly, as well as Content Patches almost monthly? 'Set up for failure', yet still succeeding.
It truly is a no win situation for Maxis, whether they release Packs frequently or take time, people will just say the same things.
Lol
Their stuff packs are $10 DLC that can be made in a month, low-risk, low investment. They can cash in all they want on that, because that is the equivalent to the store. It's not their money maker, it's a short term profit driver. Game packs are $20, and EP's are $40. I'm assuming Spa Day sold relatively well, so their inability to produce more than one shouldn't be due to poor sales.
What I'm saying is that this is a fully staffed studio, the fact they don't have a schedule for releases (or a pattern) says clearly they have no control over their products. Game Packs are the newest content platform, any other business would be pumping them out like crazy. Yet Maxis can't get more than one out per FY. What exactly does that tell you?
Tells me yes, the game has terrible management. Has since the very beginning. Not only are these people not delivering NEW content on a timely basis, which is what they said their goal for this game was, they are also not moving very quickly to adding in features nixed out of the base game. Content patches? Please give me the last content patch that wasn't developed along side a pack. As far as I'm concerned these content patches aren't introducing what's missing, they're throwing free stuff at the player hoping they'll buy the rest of the pack.
'Inability to produce more than one' they have produced more than one.
So the lack of a pattern or any schedule they may not be shown to the public makes you assume that they 'clearly' have no control over their products? You're making assumptions out of assumptions. It doesn't tell me anything specifically, I can only assume it's due to possibly several reasons, no one knows what happens with Game Packs behind the scenes or how much work they put into it, so all anyone can do who isn't a staff member that has access to this kind of information can only assume.
So a timely basis isn't almost every month? If you're referring specifically to Game Packs and Expansion Packs(which are not the only Packs that add content), the most we've had to wait between new content is about 5 months between Spa Day and Get Together(which was delayed and worked on for an extra month). What's 'missing' is relative and the last Patch(March 2016 Patch) wasn't released along a Pack. Well it seems to be working for some, heck, they did it with The Sims 3, giving a small percentage of content away in a Patch alongside an Expansion Pack.
"'Inability to produce more than one' they have produced more than one." - It may not feel that way though, and I mostly agree that the release schedule feels all sorts of messed up. The Sims Studio may have released more than one Game Pack in a year but they're a weird in-between sort of thing that's really new to the hardcore fanbase. It's like a little expansion pack but for me I found them not only lackluster and sort of lame, but they didn't feel like they had that much useable content. I won't be shoving money into something that I get bored of within a week and that I have almost zero creative control over.
"So the lack of a pattern or any schedule they may not be shown to the public makes you assume that they 'clearly' have no control over their products?" - YES! What company do you know that has no plans for setting and achieving corporate goals? I can't think of any business that just throws things together seemingly at random. I think that's why the other Sims games were so successful; they had schedules and they stuck to them. With something as complicated as modern video game development having no release schedule is a big, BIG sign that the management team either doesn't have the necessary skills to understand the industry and/or lacks the managerial experience to keep a large team of people focused and on point towards reaching predetermined results, and in many of the Sims base games and expansion packs in the past it was clearly evident that a lot of forethought was put into the product and meticulous attention to detail was given to the project pre-release. In the past (and the other entries in the franchise set a precedent, an extremely important concept to keep in mind when people start comparing The Sims 4 to the past examples) the release of anything with The Sims in the title was a carefully orchestrated thing and the results were spectacular. Now it seems that content for The Sims 4 just falls out of the sky at random, and even within the additional content there's random stuff with absolutely NO connection to the theme. Look at Kitchen Stuff and how little there was...wait for it...KICTHEN STUFF IN IT! I mean really, this should be a no brainer to keep focused on the core concept of a release.
"no one knows what happens with Game Packs behind the scenes or how much work they put into it, so all anyone can do who isn't a staff member that has access to this kind of information can only assume." - This is also new territory for the faithful fanbase. Maxis, in a broad sense, kept us informed just enough to build up hype but not so much as to spoil the anticipation. The Sims Studios has shown CONSISTENTLY that they're paying attention to their fans only sporadically at best which I find a bit insulting. We, the consumers, are the ones keeping them employed; you can't treat the people putting money in your pocket like a nuisance or the enemy. People are asking, in my opinion, for legitimate things (even though a lot of them are impossible to implement due to the restrictions of the engine) and the team shot itself in the foot by doing a full turnaround at the 11th hour and then thinking the super restrictive engine they had leftover was capable of being expanded in any sort of realist way. When it comes to The Sims 4 you're either going to like it and continue to support it or NOT like it and eventually fall off the bandwagon. Gone is the mass appeal...what you see is what you get and unless they totally rewrite the game engine The Sims 4 will continue to operate the way it did out of the box on day one until they pull the plug.
"Well it seems to be working for some, heck, they did it with The Sims 3, giving a small percentage of content away in a Patch alongside an Expansion Pack." - The concept with the little tacked on free content for post-release content for The Sims 3 was a shot in the dark to get more people to buy the newest expansion pack. The thought was if you give them a taste of what to get in the pack they'll be enticed to go out and buy the whole suite. With The Sims 4 a lot of that free stuff was to shut players up; no more, no less. I think they thought if they could quiet the angry voices time would smooth everything over, people might change review scores (most didn't from what I can tell...I know I didn't), and all the yuckyness would be put behind them and sell more copies of the game. Now the free stuff they've pushed out have clear ulterior motives that I, personally, find to be suspect and not with the greatest of intentions.
I've seen you post many, many times in defense of the game and I respect you for that. You obviously like the game and as well you should! And please, support the things you like and drop a note to the development team thanking them for their hard work because god knows they need it. But there are realistic and mostly objective and observable complaints about the game from many of us, and shoving arguments into "The Sims 3 players are just bitter and don't see the 'vision' so they must be blind and stupid" isn't giving credence to the valid points being brought up. Those of us who have been playing the franchise for over 15 years have a lot of practical experience and that knowledge sets the stage for new entries and that bar we set is VERY high. And that should be good for everyone: we get more than we ask for, we get a great vibe out of the gate that keeps the community cohesive and functioning like a single super organism with synergy and structure, and we can customize the game to be played exactly how we want it played in the many different styles out there. Sometimes our passion and emotions totally take over and if you see that see it for what it is but trying to cut the argument down without taking the time to really listen is hurtful to what should be a sound and healthy debate. As much as I hate to admit it it does seem like the same eerie silence that fell over the dev team for SimCity is happening here and that should make every Sims player nervous. I'm not getting a sense of forward momentum around these parts and it seems like a lot more players than I was expecting to see have largely moved on to other things, in a franchise that I and many others have spent a seriously unhealthy amount of time playing. It makes me sad to see everything wither and die off but, maybe it's time; the management of the game DOES have very obvious flaws and I think the ones at the top had absolutely no idea what they had on their hands and had no clear idea of what to do and that all flows down to the folks at the bottom who're just doing what they were told. Without a clear goal how can you keep something as complicated as video game development moving smoothly and expect the cobbled together end result to be met with critical praise and huge profits shortly behind?
I agree that EA (in theory) could produce many more SPs, GPs and EPs at the same time because EA has many game studios and some of the other studios have also earlier made SPs for TS3 or console versions of the Sims games. So this isn't the problem.
The number of SPs, GPs and EPs and the time intervals between them is therefore exclusively about marketing. EA will expand with more game studios or close some of those studios as EA sees the market. So when EA decides to produce more or less TS4 expansion, more or less games for consoles, more or less game apps for mobile devices and so on it is all about EA's evaluation of the market. EA will move some of the studios to other types of games as EA sees the market. This is exactly the type of discussions EA's top has told about in interviews. So we know that EA's board discuss and considers such things all the time.
I don't think that EA will consider to release expansions for the Sims 4 even faster than EA has done until now though because this would probably affect the sales numbers negatively. People usually need time to play an expansion before they will consider buying the next one.
EA should release an early access TS5,
would be probably the wisest thing they can do meantime
& it would be modern & attractive & spark excitement again & justified hope
TS4, well ... they can still try it, but i am surely not super excited about TS4
would that be not TheSims i would have been gone for good long time ago
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
EA should release an early access TS5,
would be probably the wisest thing they can do meantime
& it would be modern & attractive & spark excitement again & justified hope
TS4, well ... they can still try it, but i am surely not super excited about TS4
would that be not TheSims i would have been gone for good long time ago
I don't believe that releasing TS5 early would be a good idea at all. The reason is that then TS5 wouldn't probably be much better than TS4. So I would actually prefer that EA wait until the capabilities of our computers have improved enough to make a better TS5 possible.
EA should release an early access TS5,
would be probably the wisest thing they can do meantime
& it would be modern & attractive & spark excitement again & justified hope
TS4, well ... they can still try it, but i am surely not super excited about TS4
would that be not TheSims i would have been gone for good long time ago
I don't believe that releasing TS5 early would be a good idea at all. The reason is that then TS5 wouldn't probably be much better than TS4. So I would actually prefer that EA wait until the capabilities of our computers have improved enough to make a better TS5 possible.
after TS4, Sim City Build It, TSFP there is only a slim chance that they will make TS5 from the get go appealing to all those simmers who still prefer the first 3 iterations
but early access means the necessity of communication with the user,
it would take a radical change for EA but it would mean the development of a product with the participation of the users,
there would be way less complaints than with TS4 or even TS3 cause users would participate in developing it
if EA doesn't want to change that way, cause they prefer to remain dinosaurs
then, should they really release TS5 for PC mainly, which i find very doubtful, they will stick to the current silence policy, will release it again full of bugs to be fixed by mods until the next patch breaks those again, with content trunkated io to be released later as it fits them, that will be probably the best prospect for such TS5
why is that so ? cause it's convenient for EA, that's why
i don't want to repeat my error, thinking again, that TS5 will be better than TS4 which i was previously thinking better than TS3
if someone thinks that EA will change for the better because TS4 bombed, well, good luck with that
they could just close the PC development as in the case of SimCity or go further with their trunkated cross platform ideas cause other companies develop their game franchises like this
i don't see anywhere any reason why EA should release all of the sudden a great TS5 after what they did with TS4 ... & TS3 already
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
EA should release an early access TS5,
would be probably the wisest thing they can do meantime
& it would be modern & attractive & spark excitement again & justified hope
TS4, well ... they can still try it, but i am surely not super excited about TS4
would that be not TheSims i would have been gone for good long time ago
I don't believe that releasing TS5 early would be a good idea at all. The reason is that then TS5 wouldn't probably be much better than TS4. So I would actually prefer that EA wait until the capabilities of our computers have improved enough to make a better TS5 possible.
after TS4, Sim City Build It, TSFP there is only a slim chance that they will make TS5 from the get go appealing to all those simmers who still prefer the first 3 iterations
but early access means the necessity of communication with the user,
it would take a radical change for EA but it would mean the development of a product with the participation of the users,
there would be way less complaints than with TS4 or even TS3 cause users would participate in developing it
if EA doesn't want to change that way, cause they prefer to remain dinosaurs
then, should they really release TS5 for PC mainly, which i find very doubtful, they will stick to the current silence policy, will release it again full of bugs to be fixed by mods until the next patch breaks those again, with content trunkated io to be released later as it fits them, that will be probably the best prospect for such TS5
why is that so ? cause it's convenient for EA, that's why
i don't want to repeat my error, thinking again, that TS5 will be better than TS4 which i was previously thinking better than TS3
if someone thinks that EA will change for the better because TS4 bombed, well, good luck with that
they could just close the PC development as in the case of SimCity or go further with their trunkated cross platform ideas cause other companies develop their game franchises like this
i don't see anywhere any reason why EA should release all of the sudden a great TS5 after what they did with TS4 ... & TS3 already
I agree that EA probably won't make the Sims 5 more like the first 3 games because such a thing usually never happens. EA won't listen to the forum because EA's top don't even read the forum and only listens to EA's own marketing experts who also don't read the forum. They are much more interested in investigating the market in other ways.
I don't really see the difference between the Sims 4 and the first 3 PC Sims games though? All 4 games were made as simulations of young girls playing with their dolls and dollhouses only with the addition of things which such girls usually only have fantasies about because their physical dolls can't go more realistic to work or visit real stores on their own like they can in the game.
Yes. EA will probably also make more Sims games for consoles and mobile devices and those games will still be different dollhouse simulations compared to the PC games. But for now they already have the Sims Freeplay and the consoles games sell less and less. So I don't know when EA will make the next such game.
The developers in Maxis of course read this forum. But I am sure that the developers have all their main instructions on how to make the games from EA and EA's marketing department. So the developers can probably only use very few of the ideas in the forum without getting into a conflict with EA.
...
I don't really see the difference between the Sims 4 and the first 3 PC Sims games though? All 4 games were made as simulations of young girls playing with their dolls and dollhouses only with the addition of things which such girls usually only have fantasies about because their physical dolls can't go more realistic to work or visit real stores on their own like they can in the game.
...
the main difference is avatar vs AI gameplay
avatar are mainly graphically distinct, they don't do anything on their own
while AI is programmed to act on its own
all sims games can be played as avatar games if the player disables free will
TS2 & TS3 are AI games
TS4's base game tends towards avatar game
TSFP is a pure avatar game
TS2 is sim & family RTS
TS3 is mainly RTS, means world wide AI & sims & family RTS
TS3 contains also parts tending toward RPG
TS4's base & GTW tend towards RPG, GT seem to tend towards RTS
RPG doesn't need much of AI, it's linear & scripted
RTS needs a good AI
TS2 has no story progression but relies still on AI
TS3 has AI & story progression
TS4 (base game) has mainly fake story progression & barely AI
thus plays TS4's base game & GTW very different to the 2 main previous games
i didn't test GT, so i am not sure if the clubs are tool enough to initiate AI
i prefer RTS over RPG, AI over avatar, playing with the game's AI or against it instead with myself only
thus i prefer TS3 & TS2 over TS4 & TSFP
avatar in game - "the graphical representation of a user" [wikipedia]
AI - "artificial intelligence is used to generate intelligent behaviors primarily in non-player characters (NPCs), often simulating human-like intelligence" [wikipedia]
story progression is world wide AI
RPG - role playing game
RTS - real time strategy
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
I've been simming since there were sims and I really hated when they announced sims 4. I saw absolutely nothing there that I didn't already have with 2 and 3. Yes, I know they made a big deal about "emotions" what a lot of hype for nothing. Sims 4 was a GIANT step backwards in the game and I play very rarely now. I just can't get invested in any of the games anymore. One because I don't know when they are going to pull the plug on the home community for sims 3 and two because the "expansions" and "stuff" packs for 4 have been grossly over bragged. Every patch messes with the game so that I have to repair and sometimes reinstall. It's been two years and still no toddlers, no cars, no way to go anywhere with infants which makes the game more cartoony than ever. I hate sims 4 and wish I had never gotten it, even if it was on sale. Who in their right mind would pay what they wanted anyway? Speaking of, we are the ones doling out the money so why don't they listen? Maxis is pretty much like our city council. All mouth movement and no deliverance.
@Erpe “I don't really see the difference between the Sims 4 and the first 3 PC Sims games though? All 4 games were made as simulations of young girls playing with their dolls and dollhouses only with the addition of things which such girls usually only have fantasies about because their physical dolls can't go more realistic to work or visit real stores on their own like they can in the game.”
The Sims provide way more than virtual dollhouses, it’s a great creative tool for builders and story tellers for example, and also it caused many people to learn new things if they wanted to create CC or mods. Also I remember I read somewhere that The Sims 1 was supposed to include only the building aspect, and the idea of life simulation appeared later and became the main point of the game.
@Erpe
“I don't really see the difference between the Sims 4 and the first 3 PC Sims games though? All 4 games were made as simulations of young girls playing with their dolls and dollhouses only with the addition of things which such girls usually only have fantasies about because their physical dolls can't go more realistic to work or visit real stores on their own like they can in the game.”
The Sims provide way more than virtual dollhouses, it’s a great creative tool for builders and story tellers for example, and also it caused many people to learn new things if they wanted to create CC or mods. Also I remember I read somewhere that The Sims 1 was supposed to include only the building aspect, and the idea of life simulation appeared later and became the main point of the game.
You're right about the building.
Will Wright thought of a building game after going through his own home burning down. Originally his thoughts were an architectural game with little people going through the house critiquing how the home was built and decorated.
"Wright conceived of a game in which the player would first design and build a house, then invite digital people to come and live in it. Initially, the people were to be little more than an animated scoring system: They'd walk around and "let you know whether your house was good or not." But as the design got farther along, the human figures got more and more interesting, and "we developed this simulation system that ended up being much more robust than I was expecting."
he also thought
"designer's role should be to provide "as big a sandbox as possible" and get out of the way."
And I think TS4 is very far away from that concept.
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
@Erpe
“I don't really see the difference between the Sims 4 and the first 3 PC Sims games though? All 4 games were made as simulations of young girls playing with their dolls and dollhouses only with the addition of things which such girls usually only have fantasies about because their physical dolls can't go more realistic to work or visit real stores on their own like they can in the game.”
The Sims provide way more than virtual dollhouses, it’s a great creative tool for builders and story tellers for example, and also it caused many people to learn new things if they wanted to create CC or mods. Also I remember I read somewhere that The Sims 1 was supposed to include only the building aspect, and the idea of life simulation appeared later and became the main point of the game.
You're right about the building.
Will Wright thought of a building game after going through his own home burning down. Originally his thoughts were an architectural game with little people going through the house critiquing how the home was built and decorated.
"Wright conceived of a game in which the player would first design and build a house, then invite digital people to come and live in it. Initially, the people were to be little more than an animated scoring system: They'd walk around and "let you know whether your house was good or not." But as the design got farther along, the human figures got more and more interesting, and "we developed this simulation system that ended up being much more robust than I was expecting."
he also thought
"designer's role should be to provide "as big a sandbox as possible" and get out of the way."
And I think TS4 is very far away from that concept.
To me, the Sims 3 was a huge sandbox and so great with designs and customizations, that I rebuilt my house almost exactly how it really is. It was very cool to have my sim walk into my kitchen and do what I do.
With the Sims 4, I find myself frustrated because I cannot decorate and make a house or building appear EXACTLY how I want to. Yes--yes, I know that Sims 4 is still new and needs time to expand, and yes, I know Sims 3 probably spoiled me with the freedom of customizing, but I suppose my expectations are high.
spivoski you are entitled to your opinion yes you are, for me the Sims 2 and 3 spoiled me BIG TIME !! , so I know how it is, I play the Sims 4 once in awhile, But I always go back to the ones I Luv, I am more of a character creator though, I have built many homes and shops in the Sims 2, but I only bothered to try one in the Sims 4, did not like how it came out, for my Haunted house, Happy Simmng to ya .
Comments
The Maxis studio at SLC only developed four of the 21 packs released for the game: Showtime, Supernatural, University, and Into The Future. Any and all other packs (excluding TS3 Store content) were developed by The Sims Studio in Redwood Shores. Their trend of releasing a pack roughly every 6 months was around long before Salt Lake City started working on the PC game. Showtime released in 2012. Just a little less than 3 years after the game released, and after 5 expansions all developed in California.
Their inability to release content at a similar rate says nothing more than the game has terrible management. They had no issue with consistently releasing content until The Sims 4, which is under new management coming from the area of mobile games. It should be no surprise to anyone that this game is going downhill, it was set up for failure from the beginning when they started developing it as a online multiplayer game with a story mode tacked on later.
Now I do expect EP03 to be announced and released before the end of June, and EP04 to be announced and released this fall. They clearly can't handle releasing multiple GP's within a year (I don't see that platform sticking around much longer), but that is not something that EA will allow for their real money maker.
I gave your post an awesome.
I really wish we had that Oldsmobile....I've heard that between ongoing service needs, the breakdowns and just how expensive the upkeep is, a Ferrari can be incredibly annoying to drive.
And only 11 of those 21 Packs are Expansions. So, the inability to release content from a single studio at a similar rate is terrible management, despite the fact that there's a Pack release almost monthly, as well as Content Patches almost monthly? 'Set up for failure', yet still succeeding.
It truly is a no win situation for Maxis, whether they release Packs frequently or take time, people will just say the same things.
Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
Here, let me play a little something for them
[img]http://www.🐸🐸🐸🐸.com/r/2012/12/tiniest_violin.gif[/img]
They deserve the backlash.
OUTER SENSHI PRIDE
Lol
Their stuff packs are $10 DLC that can be made in a month, low-risk, low investment. They can cash in all they want on that, because that is the equivalent to the store. It's not their money maker, it's a short term profit driver. Game packs are $20, and EP's are $40. I'm assuming Spa Day sold relatively well, so their inability to produce more than one shouldn't be due to poor sales.
What I'm saying is that this is a fully staffed studio, the fact they don't have a schedule for releases (or a pattern) says clearly they have no control over their products. Game Packs are the newest content platform, any other business would be pumping them out like crazy. Yet Maxis can't get more than one out per FY. What exactly does that tell you?
Tells me yes, the game has terrible management. Has since the very beginning. Not only are these people not delivering NEW content on a timely basis, which is what they said their goal for this game was, they are also not moving very quickly to adding in features nixed out of the base game. Content patches? Please give me the last content patch that wasn't developed along side a pack. As far as I'm concerned these content patches aren't introducing what's missing, they're throwing free stuff at the player hoping they'll buy the rest of the pack.
'Inability to produce more than one' they have produced more than one.
So the lack of a pattern or any schedule they may not be shown to the public makes you assume that they 'clearly' have no control over their products? You're making assumptions out of assumptions. It doesn't tell me anything specifically, I can only assume it's due to possibly several reasons, no one knows what happens with Game Packs behind the scenes or how much work they put into it, so all anyone can do who isn't a staff member that has access to this kind of information can only assume.
So a timely basis isn't almost every month? If you're referring specifically to Game Packs and Expansion Packs(which are not the only Packs that add content), the most we've had to wait between new content is about 5 months between Spa Day and Get Together(which was delayed and worked on for an extra month). What's 'missing' is relative and the last Patch(March 2016 Patch) wasn't released along a Pack. Well it seems to be working for some, heck, they did it with The Sims 3, giving a small percentage of content away in a Patch alongside an Expansion Pack.
Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
They're always working on something "big". Something "big" in someone's mind, anyway.
It's really sad but I have seen so much of this in the TS3 section. So many people there have thrown up their hands and gone back to TS3 or are playing TS4 very little and mainly playing TS3. I know a lot of people were disappointed in TS3 when it released and went back to TS2 but I know there weren't bunches of people still dropping off a year-and-a-half later.
Even my TS3 game loads faster than that with half the store and quite a number of CC files I recently added and haven't merged yet.
Hearing the mention of that name sends shivers down my spine...
"'Inability to produce more than one' they have produced more than one." - It may not feel that way though, and I mostly agree that the release schedule feels all sorts of messed up. The Sims Studio may have released more than one Game Pack in a year but they're a weird in-between sort of thing that's really new to the hardcore fanbase. It's like a little expansion pack but for me I found them not only lackluster and sort of lame, but they didn't feel like they had that much useable content. I won't be shoving money into something that I get bored of within a week and that I have almost zero creative control over.
"So the lack of a pattern or any schedule they may not be shown to the public makes you assume that they 'clearly' have no control over their products?" - YES! What company do you know that has no plans for setting and achieving corporate goals? I can't think of any business that just throws things together seemingly at random. I think that's why the other Sims games were so successful; they had schedules and they stuck to them. With something as complicated as modern video game development having no release schedule is a big, BIG sign that the management team either doesn't have the necessary skills to understand the industry and/or lacks the managerial experience to keep a large team of people focused and on point towards reaching predetermined results, and in many of the Sims base games and expansion packs in the past it was clearly evident that a lot of forethought was put into the product and meticulous attention to detail was given to the project pre-release. In the past (and the other entries in the franchise set a precedent, an extremely important concept to keep in mind when people start comparing The Sims 4 to the past examples) the release of anything with The Sims in the title was a carefully orchestrated thing and the results were spectacular. Now it seems that content for The Sims 4 just falls out of the sky at random, and even within the additional content there's random stuff with absolutely NO connection to the theme. Look at Kitchen Stuff and how little there was...wait for it...KICTHEN STUFF IN IT! I mean really, this should be a no brainer to keep focused on the core concept of a release.
"no one knows what happens with Game Packs behind the scenes or how much work they put into it, so all anyone can do who isn't a staff member that has access to this kind of information can only assume." - This is also new territory for the faithful fanbase. Maxis, in a broad sense, kept us informed just enough to build up hype but not so much as to spoil the anticipation. The Sims Studios has shown CONSISTENTLY that they're paying attention to their fans only sporadically at best which I find a bit insulting. We, the consumers, are the ones keeping them employed; you can't treat the people putting money in your pocket like a nuisance or the enemy. People are asking, in my opinion, for legitimate things (even though a lot of them are impossible to implement due to the restrictions of the engine) and the team shot itself in the foot by doing a full turnaround at the 11th hour and then thinking the super restrictive engine they had leftover was capable of being expanded in any sort of realist way. When it comes to The Sims 4 you're either going to like it and continue to support it or NOT like it and eventually fall off the bandwagon. Gone is the mass appeal...what you see is what you get and unless they totally rewrite the game engine The Sims 4 will continue to operate the way it did out of the box on day one until they pull the plug.
"Well it seems to be working for some, heck, they did it with The Sims 3, giving a small percentage of content away in a Patch alongside an Expansion Pack." - The concept with the little tacked on free content for post-release content for The Sims 3 was a shot in the dark to get more people to buy the newest expansion pack. The thought was if you give them a taste of what to get in the pack they'll be enticed to go out and buy the whole suite. With The Sims 4 a lot of that free stuff was to shut players up; no more, no less. I think they thought if they could quiet the angry voices time would smooth everything over, people might change review scores (most didn't from what I can tell...I know I didn't), and all the yuckyness would be put behind them and sell more copies of the game. Now the free stuff they've pushed out have clear ulterior motives that I, personally, find to be suspect and not with the greatest of intentions.
I've seen you post many, many times in defense of the game and I respect you for that. You obviously like the game and as well you should! And please, support the things you like and drop a note to the development team thanking them for their hard work because god knows they need it. But there are realistic and mostly objective and observable complaints about the game from many of us, and shoving arguments into "The Sims 3 players are just bitter and don't see the 'vision' so they must be blind and stupid" isn't giving credence to the valid points being brought up. Those of us who have been playing the franchise for over 15 years have a lot of practical experience and that knowledge sets the stage for new entries and that bar we set is VERY high. And that should be good for everyone: we get more than we ask for, we get a great vibe out of the gate that keeps the community cohesive and functioning like a single super organism with synergy and structure, and we can customize the game to be played exactly how we want it played in the many different styles out there. Sometimes our passion and emotions totally take over and if you see that see it for what it is but trying to cut the argument down without taking the time to really listen is hurtful to what should be a sound and healthy debate. As much as I hate to admit it it does seem like the same eerie silence that fell over the dev team for SimCity is happening here and that should make every Sims player nervous. I'm not getting a sense of forward momentum around these parts and it seems like a lot more players than I was expecting to see have largely moved on to other things, in a franchise that I and many others have spent a seriously unhealthy amount of time playing. It makes me sad to see everything wither and die off but, maybe it's time; the management of the game DOES have very obvious flaws and I think the ones at the top had absolutely no idea what they had on their hands and had no clear idea of what to do and that all flows down to the folks at the bottom who're just doing what they were told. Without a clear goal how can you keep something as complicated as video game development moving smoothly and expect the cobbled together end result to be met with critical praise and huge profits shortly behind?
The number of SPs, GPs and EPs and the time intervals between them is therefore exclusively about marketing. EA will expand with more game studios or close some of those studios as EA sees the market. So when EA decides to produce more or less TS4 expansion, more or less games for consoles, more or less game apps for mobile devices and so on it is all about EA's evaluation of the market. EA will move some of the studios to other types of games as EA sees the market. This is exactly the type of discussions EA's top has told about in interviews. So we know that EA's board discuss and considers such things all the time.
I don't think that EA will consider to release expansions for the Sims 4 even faster than EA has done until now though because this would probably affect the sales numbers negatively. People usually need time to play an expansion before they will consider buying the next one.
would be probably the wisest thing they can do meantime
& it would be modern & attractive & spark excitement again & justified hope
TS4, well ... they can still try it, but i am surely not super excited about TS4
would that be not TheSims i would have been gone for good long time ago
but early access means the necessity of communication with the user,
it would take a radical change for EA but it would mean the development of a product with the participation of the users,
there would be way less complaints than with TS4 or even TS3 cause users would participate in developing it
if EA doesn't want to change that way, cause they prefer to remain dinosaurs
then, should they really release TS5 for PC mainly, which i find very doubtful, they will stick to the current silence policy, will release it again full of bugs to be fixed by mods until the next patch breaks those again, with content trunkated io to be released later as it fits them, that will be probably the best prospect for such TS5
why is that so ? cause it's convenient for EA, that's why
i don't want to repeat my error, thinking again, that TS5 will be better than TS4 which i was previously thinking better than TS3
if someone thinks that EA will change for the better because TS4 bombed, well, good luck with that
they could just close the PC development as in the case of SimCity or go further with their trunkated cross platform ideas cause other companies develop their game franchises like this
i don't see anywhere any reason why EA should release all of the sudden a great TS5 after what they did with TS4 ... & TS3 already
I don't really see the difference between the Sims 4 and the first 3 PC Sims games though? All 4 games were made as simulations of young girls playing with their dolls and dollhouses only with the addition of things which such girls usually only have fantasies about because their physical dolls can't go more realistic to work or visit real stores on their own like they can in the game.
Yes. EA will probably also make more Sims games for consoles and mobile devices and those games will still be different dollhouse simulations compared to the PC games. But for now they already have the Sims Freeplay and the consoles games sell less and less. So I don't know when EA will make the next such game.
The developers in Maxis of course read this forum. But I am sure that the developers have all their main instructions on how to make the games from EA and EA's marketing department. So the developers can probably only use very few of the ideas in the forum without getting into a conflict with EA.
the main difference is avatar vs AI gameplay
avatar are mainly graphically distinct, they don't do anything on their own
while AI is programmed to act on its own
all sims games can be played as avatar games if the player disables free will
TS2 & TS3 are AI games
TS4's base game tends towards avatar game
TSFP is a pure avatar game
TS2 is sim & family RTS
TS3 is mainly RTS, means world wide AI & sims & family RTS
TS3 contains also parts tending toward RPG
TS4's base & GTW tend towards RPG, GT seem to tend towards RTS
RPG doesn't need much of AI, it's linear & scripted
RTS needs a good AI
TS2 has no story progression but relies still on AI
TS3 has AI & story progression
TS4 (base game) has mainly fake story progression & barely AI
thus plays TS4's base game & GTW very different to the 2 main previous games
i didn't test GT, so i am not sure if the clubs are tool enough to initiate AI
i prefer RTS over RPG, AI over avatar, playing with the game's AI or against it instead with myself only
thus i prefer TS3 & TS2 over TS4 & TSFP
avatar in game - "the graphical representation of a user" [wikipedia]
AI - "artificial intelligence is used to generate intelligent behaviors primarily in non-player characters (NPCs), often simulating human-like intelligence" [wikipedia]
story progression is world wide AI
RPG - role playing game
RTS - real time strategy
I hate sims 4 and wish I had never gotten it, even if it was on sale. Who in their right mind would pay what they wanted anyway? Speaking of, we are the ones doling out the money so why don't they listen? Maxis is pretty much like our city council. All mouth movement and no deliverance.
I'm hopeful for this new pack so am very excited for SimGuruDrake 's announcement whenever it may be
Matthew.
“I don't really see the difference between the Sims 4 and the first 3 PC Sims games though? All 4 games were made as simulations of young girls playing with their dolls and dollhouses only with the addition of things which such girls usually only have fantasies about because their physical dolls can't go more realistic to work or visit real stores on their own like they can in the game.”
The Sims provide way more than virtual dollhouses, it’s a great creative tool for builders and story tellers for example, and also it caused many people to learn new things if they wanted to create CC or mods. Also I remember I read somewhere that The Sims 1 was supposed to include only the building aspect, and the idea of life simulation appeared later and became the main point of the game.
Pond & Sea Water Overhaul (TS2)
Simblr (my TS2 CC)
MTS Profile
You're right about the building.
Will Wright thought of a building game after going through his own home burning down. Originally his thoughts were an architectural game with little people going through the house critiquing how the home was built and decorated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/magazine/2002/04/14/guys-and-digital-dolls/9437243f-b5a4-4827-929d-9208ece7dd70/
"Wright conceived of a game in which the player would first design and build a house, then invite digital people to come and live in it. Initially, the people were to be little more than an animated scoring system: They'd walk around and "let you know whether your house was good or not." But as the design got farther along, the human figures got more and more interesting, and "we developed this simulation system that ended up being much more robust than I was expecting."
he also thought
"designer's role should be to provide "as big a sandbox as possible" and get out of the way."
And I think TS4 is very far away from that concept.
To me, the Sims 3 was a huge sandbox and so great with designs and customizations, that I rebuilt my house almost exactly how it really is. It was very cool to have my sim walk into my kitchen and do what I do.
With the Sims 4, I find myself frustrated because I cannot decorate and make a house or building appear EXACTLY how I want to. Yes--yes, I know that Sims 4 is still new and needs time to expand, and yes, I know Sims 3 probably spoiled me with the freedom of customizing, but I suppose my expectations are high.
...my opinion...btw