@luthienrising he said pretty explicitly that complexity is something they try to avoid. Does that mean nothing in the game is complex? No, and I never said that. I said they looked at any and all ways to avoid doing the hard work, which is backed up when SGM said they try to avoid complexity at every turn because "complexity is their biggest enemy".
Youre right not everything makes the cut, but the shortcuts the took did not lead to a better product. They made tremendous cuts, and the things that were prioritized are far from breakout features. Emotions are a hot mess, and far from compelling enough to warrant being the games main 'new' feature; multitasking is also not all that profound, there's plenty of situations where multitasking cannot be done. For being the two prominent features they are incredibly underwhelming.
In terms of the base game, that's where the foundation should be completed. Having a whole life stage incomplete, and babies downgraded to an object with a handful of animations doesn't tell me that the foundation is all that complete. There's tons of work that needs to be done, and given the track record we've seen so far I don't see why anyone would assume they're willing to put that kind of work in. He said himself in the same little interview that the tech to free babies from the bassinets was there and that it would be seen in the not so distant future... Well we're a year and a half past launch and there's no word on any of that. So I thoroughly have no confidence in anything from Maxis, there are too many official statements from developers that contradict what we are seeing.
Thank you @drake_mccarty . I didn't realise you had covered all of the points I was trying to make. I just went hunting down the comments before continuing the thread.
@luthienrising - Complexity was in TS2, modders made it even more complex and closer to natural life simulation AI. The devs vision for TS3 was so radical it blew up multiple players computers. Both of those games (whether you like or loathe them) were barrier breaking and no holds bar, and so it's understandable that the fandom for those games (whether you like or loathe them) is borderline zealousness.
If you can show me posts where TS2 developers argued for simplicity, avoiding animation or game logic headaches, or kept saying the game is just to complex for X, Y, Z features, then I'll eat my shoe (not really, but I'll acknowledge the decisions made for TS4 perhaps weren't so different). TS2 had a fire mid-project... so things had to be omitted from the initial release as well that were intended for the base game and not EPs, but from what I recall TS2 devs had a clear vision (which not even fire and destruction could obscure) and they knew what kind of game they wanted to deliver and communicated this with players and ultimately sales and customer satisfaction reflected on their efforts, their vision, and their talent.
I don't want to hear technical excuses about why the franchise I adore is no longer fun for me. And I didn't hear them before TS4 (to be fair I was too busy playing TS2 to be fussed over development). I just want a good up to speed Sims game preferably now, but I'm willing to not support or play the game and wait if need be until it improves or TS5 comes along with hopefully a team that can produce the game I've always been a fan of.
I said my thing about complexity, decision-making in game design, etc. earlier today, after the post you're responding to. I've made the point about decision-making being unavoidable many times. Pretty much done with this now.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
I said my thing about complexity, decision-making in game design, etc. earlier today, after the post you're responding to. I've made the point about decision-making being unavoidable many times. Pretty much done with this now.
OK, cool. Thank you always for sharing your opinion
I said my thing about complexity, decision-making in game design, etc. earlier today, after the post you're responding to. I've made the point about decision-making being unavoidable many times. Pretty much done with this now.
OK, cool. Thank you always for sharing your opinion
We've had good conversations, you and I I'm in running-out-of-steam for them at the moment, though. Plus I have to do lots of stuff with laundry before Agent Carter starts Priorities!
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
Im going to leave the play with life slogan there because we can honestly keep going back on fourth on that with the same arguments.
But can I not control the appearance of my sims, can I not control they way they behave, can I not control what they do and don't do? Because I would call all of those ruling my sims.
I can't control my Sims at all. They do whatever the hell they want. I want them to read? They put the book behind the TV and go Troll teh Forums.
I want them to sit at the table and eat their food? They have to walk around with their plates, taking forever because they won't get off their phones (which I did NOT tell them to do), then leave their plate in the street where I can't pick it up.
I want them to paint? Too bad. Even though their hunger is completely full, they've cancelled what I wanted them to do, and have queued up Drink Milk three times. I cancel them, and my Sim still walks to the fridge, gets the milk, spins around in confusion, and puts the milk down on the floor. In the time it took to do this, Drink Milk has queued up again, and so they turn around and get more milk before I can stop them.
Need your Sim to be in a certain mood for work? Too bad, I know you took a bath, looked at a painting, and drank tea, but it just randomly changed by itself due to a trait and overrode the last two hours you spent getting your Sims ready for work.
Want to go to the park, but want your kid to finish their home work, take a shower and go to bed? Awww, too bad. You have no control over Sims at home when you are off lot. You child will be standing in the yard, hungry, dirty, and tired, with homework still undone when you get back. Good luck getting him to school on time!
Want to give the Sim you are standing next to a hug? Better run out of the house and stand in the back yard first. That other Sim may or may not follow you for that hug, but either way, it's going to waste an hour.
Want your Sim to work out? Nope, they've cancelled that so they can run across the neighborhood to talk to another Sim that is for some reason doing push ups in the road.
You have no control over Sims in this game AT ALL.
LOL
In the beginning, the "push ups anywhere" feature use to crack me up. Now, it's just annoying and weird. Especially when your trying to immerse yourself with your sims on a date. The only guy I knew that did that in real life was a creeper meathead 🐸🐸🐸🐸 from my sophomore undergrad days.
~
It's hard enough having a sim grind through the medical career track. Examine patient---nope, I want to do push ups on the hospital floor...super unsanitary. Hopefully they'll tweak it so they only do it while at the gym or something.
~
But yeah, for everything else, reducing autonomy might help. Just becareful though, they'll literally need you to do everything and will stand there looking at you while starving themselves.
Off-Topic for a bit. About TS2 fire thing, were there any articles on it? I haven't seen anything about it besides on the forums, but I would figure there at least be something on Wikipedia about it. I am really curious as to whether it happened or if it's just a rumor.
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
Off-Topic for a bit. About TS2 fire thing, were there any articles on it? I haven't seen anything about it besides on the forums, but I would figure there at least be something on Wikipedia about it. I am really curious as to whether it happened or if it's just a rumor.
Off-Topic for a bit. About TS2 fire thing, were there any articles on it? I haven't seen anything about it besides on the forums, but I would figure there at least be something on Wikipedia about it. I am really curious as to whether it happened or if it's just a rumor.
Off-Topic for a bit. About TS2 fire thing, were there any articles on it? I haven't seen anything about it besides on the forums, but I would figure there at least be something on Wikipedia about it. I am really curious as to whether it happened or if it's just a rumor.
Heh... I think it's just one of those things that longtime simmers remember reading somewhere. It's only a matter of wading through acres of Internet sludge to find it again.
I'm still not sure about it. Besides that link, there's really nothing else on the matter, and I would think there would be more coverage on it. The video looks interesting, but of there were more to go on, it would feel more solid. As of now, I'll consider it more of a rumor.
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
I'm still not sure about it. Besides that link, there's really nothing else on the matter, and I would think there would be more coverage on it. The video looks interesting, but of there were more to go on, it would feel more solid. As of now, I'll consider it more of a rumor.
The base game has a trivia question about it during the installation, that is to say, if it is just a rumour Maxis started the rumour in the actual game.
Personally, I would have rather waited an extra year or two and have all the extra bells and whistles instead of having to wait to buy them a la carte.
Also, I really wonder if people would be this angry if they started the game with color. That doesn't seem like too much, and it took awhile for the maps to be colorized. Plus, the worlds seems so small. If they doubled the worlds and the number of sims. And have more back stories for all the sims. And I don't think it's that technical to create backstories.
In Sims 3, there were so many stories and lots to discover, that users were often too distracted to complain about story progression not working at the beginning. I mean there was complaining, but not as much as this game.
Personally, I would have rather waited an extra year or two and have all the extra bells and whistles instead of having to wait to buy them a la carte.
I think most people would have preferred waiting longer.
Personally, I would have rather waited an extra year or two and have all the extra bells and whistles instead of having to wait to buy them a la carte.
I dunno... still waiting on toddlers wouldn't have wanted to wait until 2016 (or potentially longer) for a release.
Personally, I would have rather waited an extra year or two and have all the extra bells and whistles instead of having to wait to buy them a la carte.
I think most people would have preferred waiting longer.
I'd rather have a playable game now that I truly enjoy, which I do, and get the extras as I go. I don't want to have to wait for bug fixes straight out of the gate, but I don't mind waiting for additional features. The things I truly feel like the base game missed, they have patched in (sans a few odds and ends, one being toddlers) but everything else, hasn't seemed unreasonable for me to pay for.
American in Canada. Spoon rest enthusiast.
Origin ID: texeganjane
How to fix miscellaneous bugs in your Sims 4 game, here!
Another one of these threads. You'd think people would be bored by now. Is this forum on an endless loop ?
This forum is a place for anyone to express their views whether they be positive or negative. I agree with the op this game has gone backwards instead of forward. I find nothing to like about the sims 4. I have tried but it is so lacking I find it rather boring. I had rather play the sims 3. At least there's plenty to do. Happy Simming.
The newbies may find this version of the Sims appealing but I have been with this franchise since day 1 and we have gone backwards.
1.Babies are nothing more then objects and skip the toddler stage to become a 10 year old.
2.Gotta teleport to visit across the street or the lot next door.
3.No more color wheel.
4.No more age sliders.
Over a decade and the Sims have gone backwards.
Number 2 is honestly my biggest issue. Some days I feel I spend more time on the forums than actually playing the game, and that's a far cry from my early days being a fan of Maxis and this game I was addicted to. I keep hoping for a patch that will change how we visit the next door neighbor. I don't want a loading screen every time I want my sims to go out and meet some new sims. So I started stalking them lol by hanging outside their house, hoping they would walk outside but they never do. Despite all the townies I created and added to houses, it's the same game generated ones that walk down or jog down the streets randomly when my sims are outside looking to make some new friends. I decided to quit buying any more stuff packs, games packs and any other packs until I can really enjoy the game like a used to...trying to be patient while I wait.
The sims 4 is great but agree it's gone backwards on too many things
Still no control on public spaces in buy mode.
No create a style
No open world
No story progressions
Back to the sims 1 with life stages
No proper family play
No slider's In create a sim
No cars
Some useless traits
No pond tool
Terrain tool
No food shopping
No reactions to most of the sims
Too many Animation and and family Interaction cuts
Build mode and create a sim, multitask are the best parts of this game but after that it just had way too much removed from the base game with some of that being put into DLC
Another one of these threads. You'd think people would be bored by now. Is this forum on an endless loop ?
We are bored. Of TS4. Don't like the topic? Don't click on it. Simple.
Yes another simmer complaining about the topic on the forums .nobody put a gun to them to and make them enter it lol
Agree if they don't like it why even post in it? it's a choice!
People go on about it sometimes like your invading thair inbox lol!
Yeah, I'm not happy with this version either. I keep trying to play this game off and on. I play for an hour or so, and then have no desire to play again for 6 months. Meanwhile, I play the sims 2 and the sims 3 on a regular basis. 4 just feels like a cheap knockoff to me. I get bored so easily, even using everything they've offered so far as ep's, sp's, gp's. *shakes head at self* I think I keep hoping that the next thing will make this game what I want it to be. But each time I'm back at the same place I started...bored and uninterested. Looks as self in mirror..."dumb a ss"
Another one of these threads. You'd think people would be bored by now. Is this forum on an endless loop ?
yeah, a lot of people who just bought the game are shocked at the change if they are Simmers from games past. Don't be so surprised when you see these threads, b/c this game to a lot of us, is not at all what we had become accustomed to in a Sims game. So when someone buys the game, who has played past versions, they will of course come here to voice their opinion. Get used to it.
Another one of these threads. You'd think people would be bored by now. Is this forum on an endless loop ?
yeah, a lot of people who just bought the game are shocked at the change if they are Simmers from games past. Don't be so surprised when you see these threads, b/c this game to a lot of us, is not at all what we had become accustomed to in a Sims game. So when someone buys the game, who has played past versions, they will of course come here to voice their opinion. Get used to it.
Agree.
Even people might not be here as much and not a regulor poster on the forums and so on and as its a forum we will get posters that aint even seen a particular topic so its like just because that simmer as seen similar topics don't mean everybody else had.
Somebody says that and I think dude many people use the forums at difference times and days so why are you complaining about it and assume everybody as seen the same topics as you lol!
Another one of these threads. You'd think people would be bored by now. Is this forum on an endless loop ?
yeah, a lot of people who just bought the game are shocked at the change if they are Simmers from games past. Don't be so surprised when you see these threads, b/c this game to a lot of us, is not at all what we had become accustomed to in a Sims game. So when someone buys the game, who has played past versions, they will of course come here to voice their opinion. Get used to it.
Agree.
Even people might not be here as much and not a regulor poster on the forums and so on and as its a forum we will get posters that aint even seen a particular topic so its like just because that simmer as seen similar topics don't mean everybody else had.
Somebody says that and I think dude many people use the forums at difference times and days so why are you complaining about it and assume everybody as seen the same topics as you lol!
Comments
Thank you @drake_mccarty . I didn't realise you had covered all of the points I was trying to make. I just went hunting down the comments before continuing the thread.
@luthienrising - Complexity was in TS2, modders made it even more complex and closer to natural life simulation AI. The devs vision for TS3 was so radical it blew up multiple players computers. Both of those games (whether you like or loathe them) were barrier breaking and no holds bar, and so it's understandable that the fandom for those games (whether you like or loathe them) is borderline zealousness.
If you can show me posts where TS2 developers argued for simplicity, avoiding animation or game logic headaches, or kept saying the game is just to complex for X, Y, Z features, then I'll eat my shoe (not really, but I'll acknowledge the decisions made for TS4 perhaps weren't so different). TS2 had a fire mid-project... so things had to be omitted from the initial release as well that were intended for the base game and not EPs, but from what I recall TS2 devs had a clear vision (which not even fire and destruction could obscure) and they knew what kind of game they wanted to deliver and communicated this with players and ultimately sales and customer satisfaction reflected on their efforts, their vision, and their talent.
I don't want to hear technical excuses about why the franchise I adore is no longer fun for me. And I didn't hear them before TS4 (to be fair I was too busy playing TS2 to be fussed over development). I just want a good up to speed Sims game preferably now, but I'm willing to not support or play the game and wait if need be until it improves or TS5 comes along with hopefully a team that can produce the game I've always been a fan of.
OK, cool. Thank you always for sharing your opinion
We've had good conversations, you and I
LOL
In the beginning, the "push ups anywhere" feature use to crack me up. Now, it's just annoying and weird. Especially when your trying to immerse yourself with your sims on a date. The only guy I knew that did that in real life was a creeper meathead 🐸🐸🐸🐸 from my sophomore undergrad days.
~
It's hard enough having a sim grind through the medical career track. Examine patient---nope, I want to do push ups on the hospital floor...super unsanitary. Hopefully they'll tweak it so they only do it while at the gym or something.
~
But yeah, for everything else, reducing autonomy might help. Just becareful though, they'll literally need you to do everything and will stand there looking at you while starving themselves.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
https://www.unseen64.net/2013/06/25/the-sims-2-beta-pc-mac/
https://www.unseen64.net/tag/maxis/
It really happened.:
LOL! Two posters beat me to the link. Thanks @sparkfairy1 and @RealPollyMogs.
Edit: Oh dear... forgot a space
The base game has a trivia question about it during the installation, that is to say, if it is just a rumour Maxis started the rumour in the actual game.
Also, I really wonder if people would be this angry if they started the game with color. That doesn't seem like too much, and it took awhile for the maps to be colorized. Plus, the worlds seems so small. If they doubled the worlds and the number of sims. And have more back stories for all the sims. And I don't think it's that technical to create backstories.
In Sims 3, there were so many stories and lots to discover, that users were often too distracted to complain about story progression not working at the beginning. I mean there was complaining, but not as much as this game.
I think most people would have preferred waiting longer.
I dunno... still waiting on toddlers
I'd rather have a playable game now that I truly enjoy, which I do, and get the extras as I go. I don't want to have to wait for bug fixes straight out of the gate, but I don't mind waiting for additional features. The things I truly feel like the base game missed, they have patched in (sans a few odds and ends, one being toddlers) but everything else, hasn't seemed unreasonable for me to pay for.
American in Canada. Spoon rest enthusiast.
Origin ID: texeganjane
How to fix miscellaneous bugs in your Sims 4 game, here!
This forum is a place for anyone to express their views whether they be positive or negative. I agree with the op this game has gone backwards instead of forward. I find nothing to like about the sims 4. I have tried but it is so lacking I find it rather boring. I had rather play the sims 3. At least there's plenty to do. Happy Simming.
Number 2 is honestly my biggest issue. Some days I feel I spend more time on the forums than actually playing the game, and that's a far cry from my early days being a fan of Maxis and this game I was addicted to. I keep hoping for a patch that will change how we visit the next door neighbor. I don't want a loading screen every time I want my sims to go out and meet some new sims. So I started stalking them lol by hanging outside their house, hoping they would walk outside but they never do. Despite all the townies I created and added to houses, it's the same game generated ones that walk down or jog down the streets randomly when my sims are outside looking to make some new friends. I decided to quit buying any more stuff packs, games packs and any other packs until I can really enjoy the game like a used to...trying to be patient while I wait.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
Still no control on public spaces in buy mode.
No create a style
No open world
No story progressions
Back to the sims 1 with life stages
No proper family play
No slider's In create a sim
No cars
Some useless traits
No pond tool
Terrain tool
No food shopping
No reactions to most of the sims
Too many Animation and and family Interaction cuts
Build mode and create a sim, multitask are the best parts of this game but after that it just had way too much removed from the base game with some of that being put into DLC
Hot tubs
Buffet table
Spooky stuff
Yes another simmer complaining about the topic on the forums .nobody put a gun to them to and make them enter it lol
Agree if they don't like it why even post in it? it's a choice!
People go on about it sometimes like your invading thair inbox lol!
edit to edit spelling
yeah, a lot of people who just bought the game are shocked at the change if they are Simmers from games past. Don't be so surprised when you see these threads, b/c this game to a lot of us, is not at all what we had become accustomed to in a Sims game. So when someone buys the game, who has played past versions, they will of course come here to voice their opinion. Get used to it.
Agree.
Even people might not be here as much and not a regulor poster on the forums and so on and as its a forum we will get posters that aint even seen a particular topic so its like just because that simmer as seen similar topics don't mean everybody else had.
Somebody says that and I think dude many people use the forums at difference times and days so why are you complaining about it and assume everybody as seen the same topics as you lol!