October 16 - Everyone ready for the Friday Highlight? It's ready for you here.

Why The Sims 4 was a downgrade (and why the Sims 5 might be better)

Comments

  • bellagoth_bellagoth_ Posts: 897 Member
    @Scobre i agree. to be honest, i just feel really sad for Will Wright.
    perhaps he's happy to see the evolution of the simulation genre, but the fact that it's not with his own games kinda breaks my heart.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,369 Member
    edited September 22
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @Scobre i agree. to be honest, i just feel really sad for Will Wright.
    perhaps he's happy to see the evolution of the simulation genre, but the fact that it's not with his own games kinda breaks my heart.
    Yeah true. But he has said he is shocked competition hasn't come about for the Sims franchise yet and that was around the 20th anniversary. I think he has evolved too as a person and enjoying the MMO style with his app now. Change is hard for everyone I know. I am just prepared for change, that's all especially after the fires and virus that has happened this year. World is constantly changing now. Just still trying to recover health wise from the fire smoke, it has been brutal.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • bellagoth_bellagoth_ Posts: 897 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @Scobre i agree. to be honest, i just feel really sad for Will Wright.
    perhaps he's happy to see the evolution of the simulation genre, but the fact that it's not with his own games kinda breaks my heart.
    Yeah true. But he has said he is shocked competition hasn't come about for the Sims franchise yet and that was around the 20th anniversary. I think he has evolved too as a person and enjoying the MMO style with his app now. Change is hard for everyone I know. I am just prepared for change, that's all especially after the fires and virus that has happened this year. World is constantly changing now. Just still trying to recover health wise from the fire smoke, it has been brutal.

    yeah... this has been a terrible year for everyone. however back to the sims:
    i too agree with the lack of competition, i think this has been one of the factors that didn't allow for the sims to make more improvements, since the fanbase was already there. but despite this lack of competition, i don't understand why the sims team wants to get away from it by mixing rpg based gameplay. you could say it's because it's a way to profit the already flawed engine? though they started with specific rpg sims with the sims medieval...and we all know what happened. it flopped not only for the lack of replayability, but for the lack of actual simulation.
    the sims 1 for console also had a story mode though. but the difference was the rest of the game itself. it was great. especially for being the first sims game on console back in 2003.

    but yeah, i don't know, change is indeed hard. but why change something that was already praised by people? like the sims 1 & 2 game format.
    anyways i would really love to hear Will Wright's opinion on the state of ts4 and the franchise in general.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,369 Member
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @Scobre i agree. to be honest, i just feel really sad for Will Wright.
    perhaps he's happy to see the evolution of the simulation genre, but the fact that it's not with his own games kinda breaks my heart.
    Yeah true. But he has said he is shocked competition hasn't come about for the Sims franchise yet and that was around the 20th anniversary. I think he has evolved too as a person and enjoying the MMO style with his app now. Change is hard for everyone I know. I am just prepared for change, that's all especially after the fires and virus that has happened this year. World is constantly changing now. Just still trying to recover health wise from the fire smoke, it has been brutal.

    yeah... this has been a terrible year for everyone. however back to the sims:
    i too agree with the lack of competition, i think this has been one of the factors that didn't allow for the sims to make more improvements, since the fanbase was already there. but despite this lack of competition, i don't understand why the sims team wants to get away from it by mixing rpg based gameplay. you could say it's because it's a way to profit the already flawed engine? though they started with specific rpg sims with the sims medieval...and we all know what happened. it flopped not only for the lack of replayability, but for the lack of actual simulation.
    the sims 1 for console also had a story mode though. but the difference was the rest of the game itself. it was great. especially for being the first sims game on console back in 2003.

    but yeah, i don't know, change is indeed hard. but why change something that was already praised by people? like the sims 1 & 2 game format.
    anyways i would really love to hear Will Wright's opinion on the state of ts4 and the franchise in general.
    Me too. I liked the Sims and Sims 2 format too. I was worried when Sims 3 introduced the moodlet and buff system. It is designed very similar to MMORPG games with it.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,564 Member
    @Scobre @bellagoth_ I am going to ask you one thing. When the Sims 3 came out were you grateful we got firefighters, ghosts, toddlers etc.? Probably not. It was a given to you because knowing previous Sims games this is what you paid for. You expected to see those things in the game.
    Why are y'all so grateful now? What changed? I'll say what changed your expectations changed, they got lower. You call firefighters, ghosts and toddlers player feedback? Those were not player ideas. EA knew exactly that people are going to be mad those features aren't in the base game but simply didn't have time to develop them so they did that after the release date.

    They did not listen to "player feedback" to find out we wanted those things. They knew it! They knew those features belonged in the game. They were developing them in the background and when they came out simmers went all like "Aww let's be grateful, they are listening to us." Spoiler alert! They knew those were core features missing and they simply gave it to us, but late. That's no reason to be grateful for imo. I paid 65$ for this game.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,976 Member
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @Scobre hmm they work somewhere else, that's good news i guess lol. though, i was also referring to the devs that are taking the major decisions for the future of the game as of now, like the lady that gave us the apologize letter.
    anyways i don't like to say names because no one actually knows what is going on inside the department, but see the game and its flaws? the person who thought of sparkd? the reason for the marketing, for the high prices, for the lack of content, etc...?
    be it from ea or maxis, please don't allow them to take part in ts5.

    So SimGuruLyndsay, who has been with the series since The Sims 1? Why on earth wouldn't you want a veteran like her to be on the team?

    Veteran status means nothing. It’s not like she was making any decisions for Sims 1, or even Sims 2 for that matter. I have never understood that mindset. You have no idea what she contributed to any of those games. What Sims 4 has accomplished under her management isn’t all that great on it’s own, so I wouldn’t be mad if she wasn’t. I personally think they need to get rid of all the producers. This is the only game studio that throws such a fit about making what their customers want, and that attitude comes from the top.
  • crocobauracrocobaura Posts: 1,817 Member
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @Scobre hmm they work somewhere else, that's good news i guess lol. though, i was also referring to the devs that are taking the major decisions for the future of the game as of now, like the lady that gave us the apologize letter.
    anyways i don't like to say names because no one actually knows what is going on inside the department, but see the game and its flaws? the person who thought of sparkd? the reason for the marketing, for the high prices, for the lack of content, etc...?
    be it from ea or maxis, please don't allow them to take part in ts5.

    So SimGuruLyndsay, who has been with the series since The Sims 1? Why on earth wouldn't you want a veteran like her to be on the team?

    Veteran status means nothing. It’s not like she was making any decisions for Sims 1, or even Sims 2 for that matter. I have never understood that mindset. You have no idea what she contributed to any of those games. What Sims 4 has accomplished under her management isn’t all that great on it’s own, so I wouldn’t be mad if she wasn’t. I personally think they need to get rid of all the producers. This is the only game studio that throws such a fit about making what their customers want, and that attitude comes from the top.

    It's a corporate decision to make the sims into an online game. Big boss at EA sees that all popular games are online MMOs and requests that they increase revenue from the sims by making it an MMO, all while giving no thought to whether the MMO type gameplay is compatible with the sims. I really wish they would try to increase revenue by other means.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,976 Member
    crocobaura wrote: »
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @Scobre hmm they work somewhere else, that's good news i guess lol. though, i was also referring to the devs that are taking the major decisions for the future of the game as of now, like the lady that gave us the apologize letter.
    anyways i don't like to say names because no one actually knows what is going on inside the department, but see the game and its flaws? the person who thought of sparkd? the reason for the marketing, for the high prices, for the lack of content, etc...?
    be it from ea or maxis, please don't allow them to take part in ts5.

    So SimGuruLyndsay, who has been with the series since The Sims 1? Why on earth wouldn't you want a veteran like her to be on the team?

    Veteran status means nothing. It’s not like she was making any decisions for Sims 1, or even Sims 2 for that matter. I have never understood that mindset. You have no idea what she contributed to any of those games. What Sims 4 has accomplished under her management isn’t all that great on it’s own, so I wouldn’t be mad if she wasn’t. I personally think they need to get rid of all the producers. This is the only game studio that throws such a fit about making what their customers want, and that attitude comes from the top.

    It's a corporate decision to make the sims into an online game. Big boss at EA sees that all popular games are online MMOs and requests that they increase revenue from the sims by making it an MMO, all while giving no thought to whether the MMO type gameplay is compatible with the sims. I really wish they would try to increase revenue by other means.

    Ok but Sims 4 released as a single player game capable of way more than what they have done with it in the 6 years it’s been out. Blame EA for the online, blame the producers for the bad direction they’ve taken the game since that was dropped. Either way the producers hold more power than you credit them for and they have made some objectively bad decisions that in no way revolve around revenue.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,564 Member
    crocobaura wrote: »
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @Scobre hmm they work somewhere else, that's good news i guess lol. though, i was also referring to the devs that are taking the major decisions for the future of the game as of now, like the lady that gave us the apologize letter.
    anyways i don't like to say names because no one actually knows what is going on inside the department, but see the game and its flaws? the person who thought of sparkd? the reason for the marketing, for the high prices, for the lack of content, etc...?
    be it from ea or maxis, please don't allow them to take part in ts5.

    So SimGuruLyndsay, who has been with the series since The Sims 1? Why on earth wouldn't you want a veteran like her to be on the team?

    Veteran status means nothing. It’s not like she was making any decisions for Sims 1, or even Sims 2 for that matter. I have never understood that mindset. You have no idea what she contributed to any of those games. What Sims 4 has accomplished under her management isn’t all that great on it’s own, so I wouldn’t be mad if she wasn’t. I personally think they need to get rid of all the producers. This is the only game studio that throws such a fit about making what their customers want, and that attitude comes from the top.

    It's a corporate decision to make the sims into an online game. Big boss at EA sees that all popular games are online MMOs and requests that they increase revenue from the sims by making it an MMO, all while giving no thought to whether the MMO type gameplay is compatible with the sims. I really wish they would try to increase revenue by other means.

    Ok but Sims 4 released as a single player game capable of way more than what they have done with it in the 6 years it’s been out. Blame EA for the online, blame the producers for the bad direction they’ve taken the game since that was dropped. Either way the producers hold more power than you credit them for and they have made some objectively bad decisions that in no way revolve around revenue.

    Yes. Many times producers are portrayed in this "they are very creative and hard-working but EA won't let them do anything they want to" kind of way.
    Seriously they have much more power and say in what happens with the Sims 4, if the bugs will be fixed, what packs we will get etc. They even say that themselves. One Guru even said "he/she thought the Star Wars pack will be a great idea and wanted to do it". We saw how that turned out...
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • crocobauracrocobaura Posts: 1,817 Member
    crocobaura wrote: »
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @Scobre hmm they work somewhere else, that's good news i guess lol. though, i was also referring to the devs that are taking the major decisions for the future of the game as of now, like the lady that gave us the apologize letter.
    anyways i don't like to say names because no one actually knows what is going on inside the department, but see the game and its flaws? the person who thought of sparkd? the reason for the marketing, for the high prices, for the lack of content, etc...?
    be it from ea or maxis, please don't allow them to take part in ts5.

    So SimGuruLyndsay, who has been with the series since The Sims 1? Why on earth wouldn't you want a veteran like her to be on the team?

    Veteran status means nothing. It’s not like she was making any decisions for Sims 1, or even Sims 2 for that matter. I have never understood that mindset. You have no idea what she contributed to any of those games. What Sims 4 has accomplished under her management isn’t all that great on it’s own, so I wouldn’t be mad if she wasn’t. I personally think they need to get rid of all the producers. This is the only game studio that throws such a fit about making what their customers want, and that attitude comes from the top.

    It's a corporate decision to make the sims into an online game. Big boss at EA sees that all popular games are online MMOs and requests that they increase revenue from the sims by making it an MMO, all while giving no thought to whether the MMO type gameplay is compatible with the sims. I really wish they would try to increase revenue by other means.

    Ok but Sims 4 released as a single player game capable of way more than what they have done with it in the 6 years it’s been out. Blame EA for the online, blame the producers for the bad direction they’ve taken the game since that was dropped. Either way the producers hold more power than you credit them for and they have made some objectively bad decisions that in no way revolve around revenue.


    Their decisions do revolve around revenue and are influenced by it. They manage budget, they decide what the money will be spent on, what feature will determine most players to buy the pack, etc. Even the Star Wars pack I am sure was a result of money and revenue matters, and they probably got a lot of money from Disney to advertise their park.
  • bellagoth_bellagoth_ Posts: 897 Member
    @SimmerGeorge why u tagging me? the pools and ghosts thing i said was sarcasm, don't twist my words i even put a sarcasm warning lmao.
    i'm always saying quite the contrary of what you're assuming, jeez are u for real.
  • bellagoth_bellagoth_ Posts: 897 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @Scobre i agree. to be honest, i just feel really sad for Will Wright.
    perhaps he's happy to see the evolution of the simulation genre, but the fact that it's not with his own games kinda breaks my heart.
    Yeah true. But he has said he is shocked competition hasn't come about for the Sims franchise yet and that was around the 20th anniversary. I think he has evolved too as a person and enjoying the MMO style with his app now. Change is hard for everyone I know. I am just prepared for change, that's all especially after the fires and virus that has happened this year. World is constantly changing now. Just still trying to recover health wise from the fire smoke, it has been brutal.

    yeah... this has been a terrible year for everyone. however back to the sims:
    i too agree with the lack of competition, i think this has been one of the factors that didn't allow for the sims to make more improvements, since the fanbase was already there. but despite this lack of competition, i don't understand why the sims team wants to get away from it by mixing rpg based gameplay. you could say it's because it's a way to profit the already flawed engine? though they started with specific rpg sims with the sims medieval...and we all know what happened. it flopped not only for the lack of replayability, but for the lack of actual simulation.
    the sims 1 for console also had a story mode though. but the difference was the rest of the game itself. it was great. especially for being the first sims game on console back in 2003.

    but yeah, i don't know, change is indeed hard. but why change something that was already praised by people? like the sims 1 & 2 game format.
    anyways i would really love to hear Will Wright's opinion on the state of ts4 and the franchise in general.
    Me too. I liked the Sims and Sims 2 format too. I was worried when Sims 3 introduced the moodlet and buff system. It is designed very similar to MMORPG games with it.

    i skipped sims 3 until a few years ago mostly because i didn't know a sims 3 existed, and i even played sims medieval before lol. i'm not familiar with rpg games so i wouldn't be able to point the similarities. but i think ts3 still carries a bit of the original sims idea on it, you do feel you're still playing a sims game despite the new features. but ts4 has no idea of what it wants to be, and i think that's one of the big issues it has.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,564 Member
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @SimmerGeorge why u tagging me? the pools and ghosts thing i said was sarcasm, don't twist my words i even put a sarcasm warning lmao.
    i'm always saying quite the contrary of what you're assuming, jeez are u for real.

    Yeah you were just part of that convo and I think it made sense to tag you. I should have made it clearer that I agree
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • SERVERFRASERVERFRA Posts: 2,292 Member
    Back in 2013 they used to say that Sims 4 was going to be better than Sims 3.
    Sims 5 will probably became the worst of all the Sims.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,369 Member
    edited September 23
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    @Scobre hmm they work somewhere else, that's good news i guess lol. though, i was also referring to the devs that are taking the major decisions for the future of the game as of now, like the lady that gave us the apologize letter.
    anyways i don't like to say names because no one actually knows what is going on inside the department, but see the game and its flaws? the person who thought of sparkd? the reason for the marketing, for the high prices, for the lack of content, etc...?
    be it from ea or maxis, please don't allow them to take part in ts5.

    So SimGuruLyndsay, who has been with the series since The Sims 1? Why on earth wouldn't you want a veteran like her to be on the team?

    Veteran status means nothing. It’s not like she was making any decisions for Sims 1, or even Sims 2 for that matter. I have never understood that mindset. You have no idea what she contributed to any of those games. What Sims 4 has accomplished under her management isn’t all that great on it’s own, so I wouldn’t be mad if she wasn’t. I personally think they need to get rid of all the producers. This is the only game studio that throws such a fit about making what their customers want, and that attitude comes from the top.
    She actually talked about the things she has contributed to the series with the podcast you can find here:
    https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/waypoint-radio/bonus-the-sims-20th-cyVs_6kuJYL/

    Many of my favorite features from the Sims 2 were designed by her like the neighborhood system. I really don't want to support the idea to fire people. It is a SimVIP mindset that thought that way with SimGuruDrake and look how that turned out, less communication. I can't stand another hip person doing hand clapping with a Gamescom again thinking it is what the cool kids are into. I rather have a veteran like her that actually knows the Sims franchise to the core. Tired of my favorite vets getting the "cancel culture" just because of a reaction to a pack. I rather have someone who know who has actually played the older games work be responsible for the direction. I don't trust some Simmer vets for the direction of the game to be honest. Sims 4 has 30 million players now and honestly rather have Simmer influence that want to leave a legacy for the next generation of Simmers than those few that don't. There is no future for the franchise if our kids and family members can't play the Sims with us too. We had a big firing of veteran Gurus including SimGuruDaniel and no one cared. Makes me wonder if people don't care about the veteran Gurus, then why should they care about veteran Simmers too? Just seems ironic to say to get rid of someone when we are even more replaceable as gamers. I get tired of the out with the old in with the new with everything. I like that she wants old and new which actually does have business growth with any business. Having a balance of too much old or too much new will kill a business. Extremes never work.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,369 Member
    edited September 23
    bellagoth_ wrote: »

    i skipped sims 3 until a few years ago mostly because i didn't know a sims 3 existed, and i even played sims medieval before lol. i'm not familiar with rpg games so i wouldn't be able to point the similarities. but i think ts3 still carries a bit of the original sims idea on it, you do feel you're still playing a sims game despite the new features. but ts4 has no idea of what it wants to be, and i think that's one of the big issues it has.
    I skipped it until Island Paradise came out myself. I heard Star Wars pack is very similar to the Sims Medieval. I didn't play the Sims Medieval so I wouldn't know. But it does feel like the Sims Castaway. Yeah I think the community and the game is going through an identity crisis right now. Community has never just been one thing, we are even more diverse now than we used to be with even more generations playing at once, so I do think age of the franchise does influence feedback now. Sims is far from being an indie company now. I also saw this video and thought of you:
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,369 Member
    edited September 23
    Scobre bellagoth_ I am going to ask you one thing. When the Sims 3 came out were you grateful we got firefighters, ghosts, toddlers etc.? Probably not. It was a given to you because knowing previous Sims games this is what you paid for. You expected to see those things in the game.
    Why are y'all so grateful now? What changed? I'll say what changed your expectations changed, they got lower. You call firefighters, ghosts and toddlers player feedback? Those were not player ideas. EA knew exactly that people are going to be mad those features aren't in the base game but simply didn't have time to develop them so they did that after the release date.

    They did not listen to "player feedback" to find out we wanted those things. They knew it! They knew those features belonged in the game. They were developing them in the background and when they came out simmers went all like "Aww let's be grateful, they are listening to us." Spoiler alert! They knew those were core features missing and they simply gave it to us, but late. That's no reason to be grateful for imo. I paid 65$ for this game.
    Good question. Actually felt the same with the Sims 4, felt like a weak version of the Sims 2. Took me awhile to get into the Sims 3 wasn't until Island Paradise in 2013 I got into the game so near the end of its lifetime. Like I said it was when I got into Gaiaonline then trying to escape the franchise and how I ran into a Maxoid. I didn't join the community until the Sims 4. I remember there was a big outrage over the babies in the Sims 3 too and they were called burrito babies. But yes like I mentioned before, Sims 3 is when the RPG push was really started. World Adventures was super story driven too and places were locked behind quests. I remember when I joined forums it was the norm that people hated the Sims 4 because they loved the Sims 3. I was the exception I guess which the community managers quickly found out and Sims 2 still remains my favorite and then the Sims 1.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • bellagoth_bellagoth_ Posts: 897 Member
    edited September 23
    Scobre wrote: »
    bellagoth_ wrote: »

    i skipped sims 3 until a few years ago mostly because i didn't know a sims 3 existed, and i even played sims medieval before lol. i'm not familiar with rpg games so i wouldn't be able to point the similarities. but i think ts3 still carries a bit of the original sims idea on it, you do feel you're still playing a sims game despite the new features. but ts4 has no idea of what it wants to be, and i think that's one of the big issues it has.
    I skipped it until Island Paradise came out myself. I heard Star Wars pack is very similar to the Sims Medieval. I didn't play the Sims Medieval so I wouldn't know. But it does feel like the Sims Castaway. Yeah I think the community and the game is going through an identity crisis right now. Community has never just been one thing, we are even more diverse now than we used to be with even more generations playing at once, so I do think age of the franchise does influence feedback now. Sims is far from being an indie company now. I also saw this video and thought of you:

    thank you for the video :) there's a comment on it that gives a really good point of view and i fully agree with it:

    "I feel like the quirkiness he talks about is seen the strongest in TS1. It's quirkiness is very different from what TS4 is doing, with their over the top animations, goofiness and toilet humor, angry poops and all that. In the Sims 1 the quirkiness is expressed in somewhat macabre ways. Suspicious calls, jokes about lifes failures, turning. The humor is on a whole other level. Another example is the way Will Wright deeply analyzed life and made it comical. Just the idea for us to control little people who sometimes know they are controlled is absolute quirkiness. The Sims need more and more friends to advance in their careers until they are on top and suddenly they don't need any more friends to stay there. With the cake dancers it's the same. An exaggeration of life. They are not really strippers just mimicking them in a funny overdrawn wacky way. The famous heart bed was very expensive, meaning Sims had to work hard There was a magic beanstalk that grew to a cloud where you could see a sleeping Will Wright. The skeleton maid. I mean the game uses Comic Sans as a stylistic choice and it's entirely valid in that context, but a quirky choice non the less. To sum it up Will Wright knew what he was doing, while TS4 team and EA doesn't have a clue what going back to their roots and quirkiness even means. It's like they never really got why we love to play that game. Their weird and quirky attempts are flat and surface level making it more appropriate for a child than a teen or adult. It's weird that you think we got some quirkiness back with TS4. Nope even TS3 is more quirky than that game. The originality of the Sims is going away with each title. The Sims 4 suffers from creative laziness."
  • bellagoth_bellagoth_ Posts: 897 Member
    i also think that one of the biggest issues with the sims 4 is the AI. apart of the current kids humor, the bugs, the bad approaching from the devs to any issue, the misleading marketing, the expensive prices and the lack of self criticism. oh and also their priorities...i don't understand them.

    i hope that the main things that we all fell in love with back in the sims 1, are present in the sims 5.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,564 Member
    bellagoth_ wrote: »
    i also think that one of the biggest issues with the sims 4 is the AI. apart of the current kids humor, the bugs, the bad approaching from the devs to any issue, the misleading marketing, the expensive prices and the lack of self criticism. oh and also their priorities...i don't understand them.

    i hope that the main things that we all fell in love with back in the sims 1, are present in the sims 5.

    Yes. The Sims 4 reeks of corporate interests. While the first few Sims games (especially 1 and 2) felt like passion projects.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,369 Member
    edited September 24
    bellagoth_ wrote: »

    thank you for the video :) there's a comment on it that gives a really good point of view and i fully agree with it:

    "I feel like the quirkiness he talks about is seen the strongest in TS1. It's quirkiness is very different from what TS4 is doing, with their over the top animations, goofiness and toilet humor, angry poops and all that. In the Sims 1 the quirkiness is expressed in somewhat macabre ways. Suspicious calls, jokes about lifes failures, turning. The humor is on a whole other level. Another example is the way Will Wright deeply analyzed life and made it comical. Just the idea for us to control little people who sometimes know they are controlled is absolute quirkiness. The Sims need more and more friends to advance in their careers until they are on top and suddenly they don't need any more friends to stay there. With the cake dancers it's the same. An exaggeration of life. They are not really strippers just mimicking them in a funny overdrawn wacky way. The famous heart bed was very expensive, meaning Sims had to work hard There was a magic beanstalk that grew to a cloud where you could see a sleeping Will Wright. The skeleton maid. I mean the game uses Comic Sans as a stylistic choice and it's entirely valid in that context, but a quirky choice non the less. To sum it up Will Wright knew what he was doing, while TS4 team and EA doesn't have a clue what going back to their roots and quirkiness even means. It's like they never really got why we love to play that game. Their weird and quirky attempts are flat and surface level making it more appropriate for a child than a teen or adult. It's weird that you think we got some quirkiness back with TS4. Nope even TS3 is more quirky than that game. The originality of the Sims is going away with each title. The Sims 4 suffers from creative laziness."
    Glad you enjoyed it. Yeah that dark humor and quirkiness was fun. I felt like the franchise has gotten more censored over the past two iterations which stinks. While other franchises are branching out more. I'm fine with teen rated games, just Sims 3 and 4 has felt less teen rated. It is sad seeing some E for everyone games branch out to deeper topics like mental health and deal with loss of family members while Sims kind of avoids those deeper topics now. I am seeing a lot of indie games compete well with the corporate gaming companies simply because of providing deeper storytelling with their games. Celeste and Gris are both great examples of this.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • chickenowchickenow Posts: 310 Member
    Hey guys,

    So I guess most of you already know that the Sims 4 used to be called The Sims Olympus and was an online Sims game. After the release and failure of SimCity in 2013, which was also an online game, the team scrapped Olympus and half-made a game called the Sims 4 by 2014.
    The fountation of the game never really changed since they didn't have time to redo the whole thing and this is how we ended up with the limitation and restriction of the Sims 4 (no, it was not the team trying to make the game more accesible to low end PCs and reduce lag, that's just an excuse they came up with later, to cover things up.

    This is a great analysis video on this topic:



    Personally I think the Sims 5 will be a better game because hopefully there will be no scrapping the game last minute and trying to develop somthing just to meet the deadline.
    Even if the Sims 5 is an online game, I'm sure they have decided this for a long time and will stick with the idea. What destroyed the Sims 4 was that they changed things last minute and hopefully this won't happen with the Sims 5. One can only hope.

    What do you guys think about the Sims Olympus?

    Really good analysis video. At first I found the Sims 4 to have a charm to it possibly because of the CAS, being a rotational player and Create a Style not being a priority for me but as time has gone on I'm seeing how lacking the base game is which no amount of DLC and updates will fix...

    I have my own theories for this. Please feel free to shoot down or expand upon!

    -The Sims lack personality because WE were supposed to be the personality ie my interactions with NPCs would be with other Simmers rather than premade Sims. The Sims are really just empty avatars due to the team building on an online platform. That's why for example with Eco Lifestyle the NAPS just take over any non controllable sims because in the base game there's nothing behind those sims when you aren't directly controlling them.

    -I appreciate it's seen as one of the best EPs but I still find the concept of "Get Together" a bizarre choice for an early EP. In the Olympus assets they show a tutor town. Do you think Get Together's original intentions could have been a sort of guild building EP where you could form clubs with other Simmers?
  • chickenowchickenow Posts: 310 Member
    SERVERFRA wrote: »
    Back in 2013 they used to say that Sims 4 was going to be better than Sims 3.
    Sims 5 will probably became the worst of all the Sims.

    I remember the forums back when Sims 3 was launched. Whilst not as bad as the reception the Sims 4 launch deservedly had the response to the rabbit holes and lack of animations for cars, pudding face sims etc was definitely not positive. With the way Sims 3 is spoken of now I have definitely learnt that nostalgia is a powerful thing.
    The uncomfortable truth is that EA is a corporation model and only speaks in branding, profits and brand names and any projects/improvements need to demonstrate that they are profitable and in budget. At 30 million the Sims 4 is definitely a profitable brand and trying to fix and improve nuanced things are not in their corporate interests . My prediction is that Sims 5 will keep going down this trendy branding and covering online presence, being seen as up to date with current affairs over whether these things work in game and increased dissatisfaction from long term fans.
    The issue is that really the life simulation drama needs to expand. It's nigh on impossible to meet the interests of 30 million fan so EA will continue with keeping the brand up to date with brand collaborations, online marketing over building a stable game. I don't see a good future in the Sims 5 and I really hope alternative life simulation games come soon.
  • Chicklet453681Chicklet453681 Posts: 540 Member
    chickenow wrote: »
    -The Sims lack personality because WE were supposed to be the personality ie my interactions with NPCs would be with other Simmers rather than premade Sims. The Sims are really just empty avatars due to the team building on an online platform. That's why for example with Eco Lifestyle the NAPS just take over any non controllable sims because in the base game there's nothing behind those sims when you aren't directly controlling them.

    I have thought the exact same thing. If the game was online there would have been no need for a robust AI because all interactions with other sims would be you interacting with another RL person controlling that other sim. That's why I'm hoping that EA is truly not crazy enough to try it again with TS5, otherwise we're going to end up with Sims 4.5 when it has to be scrapped because it failed.
  • chickenowchickenow Posts: 310 Member
    I have thought the exact same thing. If the game was online there would have been no need for a robust AI because all interactions with other sims would be you interacting with another RL person controlling that other sim. That's why I'm hoping that EA is truly not crazy enough to try it again with TS5, otherwise we're going to end up with Sims 4.5 when it has to be scrapped because it failed.[/quote]

    Time will tell and I hope the same thing as you. Sadly my expectations are that they might be marketing to console based play where they need to go big, flashy and current rather than the small intricacies PC fans like myself expect might be the way forward. I anticipate more brand collaborations, online play and a greater focus on goal based play. Like I mentioned I think the life simulation genre needs to expand for fans to feel satisfied.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Return to top