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Sims 4 has a BIG problem with personality mechanics.

Let's assume that any sim's unique personality is shown within these aspects: Emotions, Memories, Fears, Wants, Traits, Attraction, and Aspirations.

Now let's see how each TS2, TS3, and TS4 handle them.

The Sims 2
-Emotions:
Sims show emotions using animations. When and what they show is based on their Aspiration meter level, their need level, their memories and their interactions with other sims/objects/events
-Memories:
Sims 2 has the best memory system where every major event (and some minor events too) are saved and some are even integrated into Gameplay.
-Fears:
Every sim has Three fear slots. Doing them causes the Aspiration meter to go down. They are chosen based on the sim's traits, Aspiration, and recent interactions.
-Wants:
Every sim starts with 4 want slots. You can add up to two more by doing some stuff like going on vacation and Studying at University. Extra want traits exist to signal "Sim growth". Wants are chosen from "Want trees" based on recent interactions, relationships, sim's traits, sim's aspiration, and even on random (Same with fears). Fulfilling wants causes the aspiration meter to go up.
-Traits:
Sims 2 has a point system where sims are assigned hidden traits based on the points given to them. 1-3 points mean negative trait, 4-7 mean no trait/neutral, and 8-10 mean positive traits. These hidden traits affect almost all aspects of a sims life by changing chances and adding unique animations to the gameplay.
-Attraction:
In CAS you choose turn offs and turn ons for each sim. The game compares the Turnoffs/Turnoffs, traits and other things between each too sim upon first interaction (and/or when a sim checks another one out) and determines how attracted they are to each other. Changing the chances of successful romance interactions between the two sims appropriately.
-Aspiration:
TS2 had two Aspiration systems. The primary aspiration system was affected based on how much wants and fears were completed and could make the sim feel always happy or make them go insane. It also turns platinum when a Sim's lifetime wish is completed. And rewards each sim with Lifetime points that can be used to buy rewards.

The Sims 3
-Emotions:
Certain moodlets handle different emotions, each with their own animation. E.g. The fear emotion is a moodlet. This allows sims to have multiple emotions at once. While yes one can override emotions and change them it takes effort and time to do so.[/b]
-Memories:
Some moodlets act as short term memories like the one sims get after they come back from vacation. They also factor in when the game wants to generate wants. Other longer-term memories go into the memory scrapbook (each with screenshots) where you can give them a description and share them with your friends.
-Fears:
Since there's no aspiration meter system in TS3 there aren't any fears in, either. The game tries to offset the lack of consequences in other areas like the reputation system and the celebrity gossip system.
-Wants:
All sims get 4 wants slots, we still have wants but this time they will fade away if the player doesn't occupy want slots with them. And occupying one want may generate other wants. And they're generated based on recent interactions and traits.
-Traits:
TS3 has the highest number of both traits and hidden traits in any game. And most of them interact with each other and change the sim's personality in different ways. By using idle animations, unique interactions with unique animations, and changing the success chances of some interactions.
-Attraction:
Turn offs and turn ons don't exist in TS3 but the Attraction system does. It matches two sims based on their traits, their favorites and most importantly their zodiac signs
-Aspiration:
The aspiration system is replaced with Lifetime wish in ts3. It is a hard objective chosen in CAS for each sim and completing it rewards the sim with a large sum of Satisfaction points. Sims also passively get satisfaction points while their needs are high. Doing wants also rewards sims with Satisfaction points.

The Sims 4
-Emotions:
Emotions do exist separately in the game and have emotional deaths, unique animations, and career/skill boosts which is pretty nice but right off the bat there are many problems with them. The environmental emotional aura system is OP. Negative moodlets aren't powerful enough. The uncomfortable moodlets don't boost negative moodlets and the fear emotion is completely missing from the game.
-Memories:
Some moodlets are supposed to act as short term memories that change the sim's overall emotional state until they're active. But they're either too weak to do that or can't beat the problems of the emotion system. The memories system that is linked to the screenshot system is so lackluster in regards to gameplay that most players often forget about it.
-Fears:
Now the lack of fears in TS4 would be fine if the game had any significant amount of consequences and a "dark side". but it doesn't. So we NEED them back
-Wants:
The whims system in TS4 seriously needs an overhaul. Most whim trees should be tweaked so that the whim generation makes more sense. The whim generation should be linked to recent interactions and affected more by traits. We need 2 new non-emotional whim slots AND we should be able to replace one of the non-emotional whims with the current emotional whim we have locked so it doesn't get lost.
-Traits:
Lot traits and recent traits in packs have been pretty nice (particularly Paranoid) but there are two problems. The first one is that we need more traits (especially ones that are like their TS3 counterparts). And we need a base game trait overhaul. As of right now, they're simply "Haha your sim gets a boost in this skill and gets a moodlet every other time." We don't want that.
-Attraction:
No attraction system!!! It's surprising how we're 6 years in and EAxis didn't add some kind of attraction system to the game yet.
-Aspiration:
In TS4 sims can switch between Aspirations and that's fine. What is not fine that the aspirations are too easy and new aspirations that get introduced in packs are basically tutorials that show that pack's features to the player. If aspirations are tutorials then why we still have the Lessons section in Pause menu EA??????


What can be done to fix them?
Ideally, after EAxis has done releasing DLC for TS4 they should take a year or two to fix core base game issues. IN THIS ORDER:
-Fix as many bugs as possible
- 👏 WE 👏 NEED 👏 MORE 👏 CONSEQUENCES 👏
-Revamp base game traits to be more like their TS3 counterparts
-Add an attraction system and zodiac signs.
-Nerf the environmental emotional aura system so they take a longer time to go into effect. And their effect shouldn't be this OP.
-Uncomfortable moodlets should boost negative emotions in one way or another.
-The memory system should be integrated into sim autonomy. Automatic memory generation should make a comeback too.
-The Whims system should be overhauled to allow for more whims. The whim trees should be tweaked to make more sense and new trees should be added for EPs and GPs past Get Famous.
-Aspirations should be tweaked to become real challenges, and tutorials for new GPs and EPs past Seasons should come back in the form of lessons.

Comments

  • drakharisdrakharis Posts: 1,195 Member
    Let's assume that any sim's unique personality is shown within these aspects: Emotions, Memories, Fears, Wants, Traits, Attraction, and Aspirations.

    Now let's see how each TS2, TS3, and TS4 handle them.

    The Sims 2
    -Emotions:
    Sims show emotions using animations. When and what they show is based on their Aspiration meter level, their need level, their memories and their interactions with other sims/objects/events
    -Memories:
    Sims 2 has the best memory system where every major event (and some minor events too) are saved and some are even integrated into Gameplay.
    -Fears:
    Every sim has Three fear slots. Doing them causes the Aspiration meter to go down. They are chosen based on the sim's traits, Aspiration, and recent interactions.
    -Wants:
    Every sim starts with 4 want slots. You can add up to two more by doing some stuff like going on vacation and Studying at University. Extra want traits exist to signal "Sim growth". Wants are chosen from "Want trees" based on recent interactions, relationships, sim's traits, sim's aspiration, and even on random (Same with fears). Fulfilling wants causes the aspiration meter to go up.
    -Traits:
    Sims 2 has a point system where sims are assigned hidden traits based on the points given to them. 1-3 points mean negative trait, 4-7 mean no trait/neutral, and 8-10 mean positive traits. These hidden traits affect almost all aspects of a sims life by changing chances and adding unique animations to the gameplay.
    -Attraction:
    In CAS you choose turn offs and turn ons for each sim. The game compares the Turnoffs/Turnoffs, traits and other things between each too sim upon first interaction (and/or when a sim checks another one out) and determines how attracted they are to each other. Changing the chances of successful romance interactions between the two sims appropriately.
    -Aspiration:
    TS2 had two Aspiration systems. The primary aspiration system was affected based on how much wants and fears were completed and could make the sim feel always happy or make them go insane. It also turns platinum when a Sim's lifetime wish is completed. And rewards each sim with Lifetime points that can be used to buy rewards.

    The Sims 3
    -Emotions:
    Certain moodlets handle different emotions, each with their own animation. E.g. The fear emotion is a moodlet. This allows sims to have multiple emotions at once. While yes one can override emotions and change them it takes effort and time to do so.[/b]
    -Memories:
    Some moodlets act as short term memories like the one sims get after they come back from vacation. They also factor in when the game wants to generate wants. Other longer-term memories go into the memory scrapbook (each with screenshots) where you can give them a description and share them with your friends.
    -Fears:
    Since there's no aspiration meter system in TS3 there aren't any fears in, either. The game tries to offset the lack of consequences in other areas like the reputation system and the celebrity gossip system.
    -Wants:
    All sims get 4 wants slots, we still have wants but this time they will fade away if the player doesn't occupy want slots with them. And occupying one want may generate other wants. And they're generated based on recent interactions and traits.
    -Traits:
    TS3 has the highest number of both traits and hidden traits in any game. And most of them interact with each other and change the sim's personality in different ways. By using idle animations, unique interactions with unique animations, and changing the success chances of some interactions.
    -Attraction:
    Turn offs and turn ons don't exist in TS3 but the Attraction system does. It matches two sims based on their traits, their favorites and most importantly their zodiac signs
    -Aspiration:
    The aspiration system is replaced with Lifetime wish in ts3. It is a hard objective chosen in CAS for each sim and completing it rewards the sim with a large sum of Satisfaction points. Sims also passively get satisfaction points while their needs are high. Doing wants also rewards sims with Satisfaction points.

    The Sims 4
    -Emotions:
    Emotions do exist separately in the game and have emotional deaths, unique animations, and career/skill boosts which is pretty nice but right off the bat there are many problems with them. The environmental emotional aura system is OP. Negative moodlets aren't powerful enough. The uncomfortable moodlets don't boost negative moodlets and the fear emotion is completely missing from the game.
    -Memories:
    Some moodlets are supposed to act as short term memories that change the sim's overall emotional state until they're active. But they're either too weak to do that or can't beat the problems of the emotion system. The memories system that is linked to the screenshot system is so lackluster in regards to gameplay that most players often forget about it.
    -Fears:
    Now the lack of fears in TS4 would be fine if the game had any significant amount of consequences and a "dark side". but it doesn't. So we NEED them back
    -Wants:
    The whims system in TS4 seriously needs an overhaul. Most whim trees should be tweaked so that the whim generation makes more sense. The whim generation should be linked to recent interactions and affected more by traits. We need 2 new non-emotional whim slots AND we should be able to replace one of the non-emotional whims with the current emotional whim we have locked so it doesn't get lost.
    -Traits:
    Lot traits and recent traits in packs have been pretty nice (particularly Paranoid) but there are two problems. The first one is that we need more traits (especially ones that are like their TS3 counterparts). And we need a base game trait overhaul. As of right now, they're simply "Haha your sim gets a boost in this skill and gets a moodlet every other time." We don't want that.
    -Attraction:
    No attraction system!!! It's surprising how we're 6 years in and EAxis didn't add some kind of attraction system to the game yet.
    -Aspiration:
    In TS4 sims can switch between Aspirations and that's fine. What is not fine that the aspirations are too easy and new aspirations that get introduced in packs are basically tutorials that show that pack's features to the player. If aspirations are tutorials then why we still have the Lessons section in Pause menu EA??????


    What can be done to fix them?
    Ideally, after EAxis has done releasing DLC for TS4 they should take a year or two to fix core base game issues. IN THIS ORDER:
    -Fix as many bugs as possible
    - 👏 WE 👏 NEED 👏 MORE 👏 CONSEQUENCES 👏
    -Revamp base game traits to be more like their TS3 counterparts
    -Add an attraction system and zodiac signs.
    -Nerf the environmental emotional aura system so they take a longer time to go into effect. And their effect shouldn't be this OP.
    -Uncomfortable moodlets should boost negative emotions in one way or another.
    -The memory system should be integrated into sim autonomy. Automatic memory generation should make a comeback too.
    -The Whims system should be overhauled to allow for more whims. The whim trees should be tweaked to make more sense and new trees should be added for EPs and GPs past Get Famous.
    -Aspirations should be tweaked to become real challenges, and tutorials for new GPs and EPs past Seasons should come back in the form of lessons.

    @SinaMegapolis Right now I just want to hug you. Thank you. I agree. We shouldn't have to have mods to add attraction, likes and dislikes, consequences etc. It should be a part of the game.
    Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
  • MinaiMinai Posts: 567 Member
    Im not really sure why but because the original designers were not involved the series got messed up a bit.
    :/
  • Andyzhang2896Andyzhang2896 Posts: 49 Member
    What can be done to fix them?
    Ideally, after EAxis has done releasing DLC for TS4 they should take a year or two to fix core base game issues.
    It is just sad that mods are required to make the game feel more complete. Meanwhile, I hate using mods/CC because the game itself is already full of unfixed bugs (some even 1-2 years old), I don't want to add more 'non-official' things in the game.

    I really like your idea of spending a year or two to fix and add features to the base game, and of course other packs too. Sims getting tense because the house is on fire and literally 20 mins after that, they become happy because the decorations are beautiful??! The mood system is pretty chaotic right now.

    We still have no color wheel, paintable ceiling (while their competitor can do this and is an indie game), spiral stair, a restaurant can't set automatic opening time, geez, there are just too many missing things to type it here.
  • IreneLudwigIreneLudwig Posts: 118 Member
    @SinaMegapolis I couldn't have said it better myself! I really hope that sooner or later EA will implement an attraction /fear system in TS4, ideally as a free update, but at this point I would even be willing to pay for it.
    Origin ID: ireneludwig | Simblr | Showcase thread |
  • kreatorakreatora Posts: 546 Member
    @SinaMegapolis I absolutely agree with what has been written above. And here is the answer why TS4 is "boring" for many players and very annoying for those who know the earlier versions of The Sims. 2 days of sadness after the death of your greatest enemy? Really?
    EA had to give for sims some sort of emotional reaction to events but EA has done it badly - without sense or logic.
    My ID Origin kreatora
  • crocobauracrocobaura Posts: 2,124 Member
    What can be done to fix them?
    Ideally, after EAxis has done releasing DLC for TS4 they should take a year or two to fix core base game issues. IN THIS ORDER:
    -Fix as many bugs as possible
    - 👏 WE 👏 NEED 👏 MORE 👏 CONSEQUENCES 👏
    -Revamp base game traits to be more like their TS3 counterparts
    -Add an attraction system and zodiac signs.
    -Nerf the environmental emotional aura system so they take a longer time to go into effect. And their effect shouldn't be this OP.
    -Uncomfortable moodlets should boost negative emotions in one way or another.
    -The memory system should be integrated into sim autonomy. Automatic memory generation should make a comeback too.
    -The Whims system should be overhauled to allow for more whims. The whim trees should be tweaked to make more sense and new trees should be added for EPs and GPs past Get Famous.
    -Aspirations should be tweaked to become real challenges, and tutorials for new GPs and EPs past Seasons should come back in the form of lessons.



    I like what you are proposing, but once they are done releasing DLC, there is no incentive for them to release fixes as that means a lot of work without pay. The emotional system really bothers me because all it does is make a sim either angry, tense, playful, or whatever and it is essentially just another need that you need to cater to, but for some reason it is really detailed unlike the other needs. Also it annoys me that you can alter it just by placing different stuff around the room, I have a cafe where everybody is really focused and all I did was place some paintings I liked that fit the aesthetic of the cafe on the wall. It's bonkers, I'm telling you!
  • kwanzaabotkwanzaabot Posts: 2,220 Member
    The "Meaningful Stories" mod makes emotions MUCH more enjoyable, IMO. More powerful, more lasting moodlets, rarer happiness, and happiness that provides actual tangible gameplay benefits, giving us a reason to seek it out (it works like TS2's Platinum Mood, in that it gives a passive aspiration point gain, like TS2 added in Freetime, and I THINK TS3 had as well when you had a really, really good mood.)

    TS4 needs to take Meaningful Stories, and steal it. Add it to the game as a patch.

    As for memories, I'm all for a memory overhaul (I don't even know how to access the screenshot manager, all my screenshots are managed by going to the actual folder).

    Maybe we could have a popup appear: "This is a significant moment in your Sims' life! Would you like to save a memory?"
    And then it takes you into camera mode, you take the photo, and it's saved to the "Memory Manager" now found in Simology. You choose an icon (the screenshot appears if you click on it), you choose a title, and you get to assign a location and the Sims involved, instead of just "I was happy when this happened".

    That way, when you interact with that other Sim, or you go to that place, your Sim actually remembers that memory. "This is the Brindleton Bay lighthouse! I proposed to my wife here!" or "This is my sister, Lilith Pleasant! We fought all the time as children! Argh, I have issues about that!" or "This is Kaylynn Langeraak, my husband cheated with her! She makes me Angry!"

    Turn-ons and Turn-offs need to return as well.
    I don't expect THAT in a basegame update, but if they make a romance pack--AND THEY SHOULD--it absolutely needs to return.
    wJbomAo.png
  • popstarsleypopstarsley Posts: 1,086 Member
    edited April 28
    I’m just personally guessing that whatever mechanics need to be overhauled to fix this problem are a patch that would be super costly and time-consuming.

    This type of change would *have* to come from a free patch for everybody. Tweaking how Sims behave would have such an overarching impact on the game. It would be impossible to make that kind of sweeping change only for people who bought an individual pack and still have the game work into the future for people who didn’t own that particular pack.

    So right now, it’s either cost or resource prohibitive to overhaul Sims.
  • KaronKaron Posts: 2,313 Member
    In Sims 2/3 we had memories for a bunch of useless stuff, so... I hope they add them, but I don't want my sims to remember visiting the beach 100 times or seeing cockroaches. Like... this is not memorable.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,717 Member
    Karon wrote: »
    In Sims 2/3 we had memories for a bunch of useless stuff, so... I hope they add them, but I don't want my sims to remember visiting the beach 100 times or seeing cockroaches. Like... this is not memorable.

    The memories in the Sims 2 were great. I wish they could take that system and expand it more.
    However the only thing I thought was too much was the "met someone new" memory that just cluttered up.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • NADYSOPHIENADYSOPHIE Posts: 356 Member
    I agree with everything you said I had to install mods to make sims have more personality since they behave all the same way and its kinda annoying that also I miss the memory and fear system a lot. We definitely need more consequences and more challenges sims 2 was amazing in that.
  • NADYSOPHIENADYSOPHIE Posts: 356 Member
    Karon wrote: »
    In Sims 2/3 we had memories for a bunch of useless stuff, so... I hope they add them, but I don't want my sims to remember visiting the beach 100 times or seeing cockroaches. Like... this is not memorable.

    I agree that in sims 2 some memories were to much, the cockroaches one was one of them, the memory system should be only for important stuff like the boyfriends the first kiss, marriage, kids, betrayals etc

    Stuff like cockroaches it could be like a memory for 1 time only not like 100 memories of cockroaches, the same for the first snow.
    In sims 4 I think its cute that they have the reaction for the snow but only when its the first time they see it not all the time.
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