A system to create randomize environment is not trivial to make, so it would probably use some ressources which could have been used for the player generated environment. I mean, I understand what their point would be, it's just that they are, for me, at odd with the rest of the game, and thus would not expand the core gameplay.
I'm not trying to demolish your suggestion by the way, I just find questions like "Would a randomized environment work in a Sims game ?" something interesting to discuss and think about.
It is pretty cool there are games like No Man's Sky that use math formulas to generate its own universe of worlds. I think Minecraft uses that type of system too. Amazing what games can do.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
A system to create randomize environment is not trivial to make, so it would probably use some ressources which could have been used for the player generated environment. I mean, I understand what their point would be, it's just that they are, for me, at odd with the rest of the game, and thus would not expand the core gameplay.
I'm not trying to demolish your suggestion by the way, I just find questions like "Would a randomized environment work in a Sims game ?" something interesting to discuss and think about.
It is pretty cool there are games like No Man's Sky that use math formulas to generate its own universe of worlds. I think Minecraft uses that type of system too. Amazing what games can do.
I've found a kickstarter MMO yesterday that just wowed me and made me think... what Sims 4 could of been. I can not remember the exact number of developers but it is 12 -18. It has some life stimulation you start at 12 and go live your life until your death. You age with actual effects of aging. You can buy and own land. You can build a home. You can own a business (medieval like era). Dynamic weather system that affects your character (meaning snow accumulates like snow in real life). You eat, drink, and etc. You can get married and have children Yes, there is fighting. But it just blew me away at the depth, complexity, and their time management (as far a MMO, life stimulator, and survival).
I know Sims is more funnier, but I just thought what if Maxis took their time the possibility they could of had with Sims 4 in depth, time management, and complexity. The videos of this MMO and the developers passion and the way they showed bits of the game they have done.
And it takes some serious work to do life stimulator in an MMO of that complexity (You have a family or can be a ward of the state) and shows me all the too hard for Sims 4 is just an excuse. They even have farming, pets, and mounts. I am not comparing funny to realistic (although I find very little in Sims 4 as humorous). I am comparing the dedication and passion of developers; the complexity, the time management ( it takes 10 to 12 months in real time for your character to die of old age if you take care of your character during their life), and the depth.
And it just makes me even more annoyed and sad at the state of Sims 4. But happy that there are people in gaming development out there to take on new age technology for gaming.
I've found a kickstarter MMO yesterday that just wowed me and made me think... what Sims 4 could of been. I can not remember the exact number of developers but it is 12 -18. It has some life stimulation you start at 12 and go live your life until your death. You age with actual effects of aging. You can buy and own land. You can build a home. You can own a business (medieval like era). Dynamic weather system that affects your character (meaning snow accumulates like snow in real life). You eat, drink, and etc. You can get married and have children Yes, there is fighting. But it just blew me away at the depth, complexity, and their time management (as far a MMO, life stimulator, and survival).
I've found a kickstarter MMO yesterday that just wowed me and made me think... what Sims 4 could of been. I can not remember the exact number of developers but it is 12 -18. It has some life stimulation you start at 12 and go live your life until your death. You age with actual effects of aging. You can buy and own land. You can build a home. You can own a business (medieval like era). Dynamic weather system that affects your character (meaning snow accumulates like snow in real life). You eat, drink, and etc. You can get married and have children Yes, there is fighting. But it just blew me away at the depth, complexity, and their time management (as far a MMO, life stimulator, and survival).
What was it called? That sounds like fun. ☺
It still in kickstarter. I am watching it, but do read about it.. Their estimated delivery is Dec 2017..
Just so you know it will be an MMO meaning online. The mixing of genre style is simply amazing. There is PvP, but please read about it.. I hate PvP but I read about theirs...and still interested.
It still wows me with so much depth in just the character alone..
Edited, to say it will be something like sub, read to find out more (not monthly)..
I've found a kickstarter MMO yesterday that just wowed me and made me think... what Sims 4 could of been. I can not remember the exact number of developers but it is 12 -18. It has some life stimulation you start at 12 and go live your life until your death. You age with actual effects of aging. You can buy and own land. You can build a home. You can own a business (medieval like era). Dynamic weather system that affects your character (meaning snow accumulates like snow in real life). You eat, drink, and etc. You can get married and have children Yes, there is fighting. But it just blew me away at the depth, complexity, and their time management (as far a MMO, life stimulator, and survival).
I know Sims is more funnier, but I just thought what if Maxis took their time the possibility they could of had with Sims 4 in depth, time management, and complexity. The videos of this MMO and the developers passion and the way they showed bits of the game they have done.
And it takes some serious work to do life stimulator in an MMO of that complexity (You have a family or can be a ward of the state) and shows me all the too hard for Sims 4 is just an excuse. They even have farming, pets, and mounts. I am not comparing funny to realistic (although I find very little in Sims 4 as humorous). I am comparing the dedication and passion of developers; the complexity, the time management ( it takes 10 to 12 months in real time for your character to die of old age if you take care of your character during their life), and the depth.
And it just makes me even more annoyed and sad at the state of Sims 4. But happy that there are people in gaming development out there to take on new age technology for gaming.
But isn't MMO/Survival something different from what the Sims is about ? Isn't this game more an RPG with some life simualtion elements ? Is this what you're interested in Sims game ? Role-playing characters in a life-like settings ? I'm personally not, and I would be sad to see The Sims franchise, which is a life simulation for me, become yet another RPG, except in a Sims world.
Am I the only one who care about autonomous behaviors ? Unplayed Sims being true Sims ? Being able to play with dozens of Sims and craft their relations ?
(...)
Am I the only one who care about autonomous behaviors ? Unplayed Sims being true Sims ? Being able to play with dozens of Sims and craft their relations ?
I’m interested in that as well, I mentioned before (or in a different thread, I don’t remember) that my preferred play style is controlling a single sim and interacting with the world, so how uncontrolled sims behave does matter to me. I want my sim to interact with interesting and unique personalities, sims who have their own life, who aren’t generic.
I recall one save from TS3 where I really played like that. I edited the population of Sunset Valley in CAS (something like this, I edited populations of several worlds like that and the amount of edited sims counts in hundreds, I really was obsessed with that Recently I felt like doing something different, so I played with almost-vanilla game [I can’t live without mods and default replacements] without editing all the sims), so they all felt like ‘my’ sims, I controlled one and let Twallan’s Story Progression decide about lives of the others. My sim interacted with them, I followed what was going on with them and with whom they created families; I really felt like I’m playing in a living world. I was taking screenshots while playing there (I generally love taking screenshots ), here are a few examples:
(They’re all uncontrolled except the imaginary friend, and the fairy in the first screenshot, it’s the same sim.)
It’s sad I can’t replicate it in TS4, of course the main reason is closed words, but also the sims don’t seem to do many different things to walking without any purpose, jogging and chatting. In TS3 when they were walking it did have a purpose.
I've found a kickstarter MMO yesterday that just wowed me and made me think... what Sims 4 could of been. I can not remember the exact number of developers but it is 12 -18. It has some life stimulation you start at 12 and go live your life until your death. You age with actual effects of aging. You can buy and own land. You can build a home. You can own a business (medieval like era). Dynamic weather system that affects your character (meaning snow accumulates like snow in real life). You eat, drink, and etc. You can get married and have children Yes, there is fighting. But it just blew me away at the depth, complexity, and their time management (as far a MMO, life stimulator, and survival).
I know Sims is more funnier, but I just thought what if Maxis took their time the possibility they could of had with Sims 4 in depth, time management, and complexity. The videos of this MMO and the developers passion and the way they showed bits of the game they have done.
And it takes some serious work to do life stimulator in an MMO of that complexity (You have a family or can be a ward of the state) and shows me all the too hard for Sims 4 is just an excuse. They even have farming, pets, and mounts. I am not comparing funny to realistic (although I find very little in Sims 4 as humorous). I am comparing the dedication and passion of developers; the complexity, the time management ( it takes 10 to 12 months in real time for your character to die of old age if you take care of your character during their life), and the depth.
And it just makes me even more annoyed and sad at the state of Sims 4. But happy that there are people in gaming development out there to take on new age technology for gaming.
But isn't MMO/Survival something different from what the Sims is about ? Isn't this game more an RPG with some life simualtion elements ? Is this what you're interested in Sims game ? Role-playing characters in a life-like settings ? I'm personally not, and I would be sad to see The Sims franchise, which is a life simulation for me, become yet another RPG, except in a Sims world.
Am I the only one who care about autonomous behaviors ? Unplayed Sims being true Sims ? Being able to play with dozens of Sims and craft their relations ?
And Sims 4 isn't a badly made RPG? You have quest. You have to meet those quests. Tasks/Chores is also quests in gaming. Also I was not comparing genre but the complexity, depth, and time management. And I even mentioned I was not comparing the realistic to funny (cartoony, unrealistic). And there is a ALOT more life stimulation in this game being worked on. You are 12 when you start the game with a family or a ward of the state. You grow up learning from that family (ward of state not sure yet). You can buy a lot and build a house. You can decorate the house with furniture and etc. You can farm (grow crops and raise animals). You can have a job. You have to pay bills (taxes). You continue to grow as your character is being played. You can get married and have kids. And when old you will eventually die of old age (perm death, the end of that character forever). You have to eat, drink, watch your health. How is that not a life stimulator? The weather is real and does affect your character. The way you treat your character matters the outcome of that character.. again is not that part of a life stimulator? It is not some life stimulation they are working on.. it is a lot of life stimulator more than any other game I have known. There is so much more depth in this game that it would take me awhile to go par to par with Sims 4 and this game.
And I do like an autonomous behaviors. But to me Sims 4 is a joke. Sims 2 I still play. And exactly what is a Sim? Especially in Sims 4.. a role playing character. Doesn't matter if it is cartoony, pudding faces, or realistic.
I was making a point about the depth, complexity, and time management compared to Sims 4. Not saying they should make an MMO or just like the game I was talking about. EA and whatever development team could not even make this kind of game. It takes money, time, and dedication. So, I certainly wasn't saying EA make this game and if they did try I would not buy it for my own reasons they are good reasons.
Even if this game doesn't make it (not talking about Sims 4); I applaud the development team for stepping onto a brave path. They thought outside the box.
When I said if Maxis took their time they could outdone any Sims game ever made with today's gaming technology. It was an example in a little depth.
@Voeille
Did you play TS1/TS2 ? If you did, did you play in the same way ? You mention the closed world and those were closed so that's why I'm curious.
@gamekitten
For me, no, TS4 is not a RPG, badly made or not. It's a life simulation first and foremost, a big playground with AIs. You're not the first person who take MMO/RPG which includes life simulator elements (like eating/growing/getting married) as examples/inspiration/whishes/etc, while they seem completely opposite to what I expect from a Sims game. I don't play The Sims as a RPG which happens to allow you to grow/marry/buy a home. For me, the big strength of the Sims is all the AIs that interact with each other and with their environment in believable ways. It's the complex web of relationships I'm building generations after generations.
@Neia
I did play those, my experience with The Sims started when I was a 6 year old child I didn’t play it the same way, because of course there was no open world, but there were some similarities, e.g. I also liked playing with a single sim and mastering skills, and I enjoyed meeting my other sims at public areas and befriending them. I also liked travelling when it became possible, and as I stated somewhere else Makin’ Magic is definitely my favourite EP in the series The main difference between my play style in TS2 and 3 is that in 2 I did play with families sometimes, and I enjoyed observing the similarities between parents and children. In TS3 I don’t need to play families myself, because story progression does that for me and I can focus on skills, exploring and supernatural aspects. And of course a significant part of my play style is creating, I probably wouldn’t like the franchise so much without it, I’ve never liked playing in pre-made houses for example, I prefer to build my own or edit the existing ones, but I never leave them as they are. Also, thanks to TS2 I learnt some things not necessarily related to the game itself, like texturing 3D models.
Actually I shouldn’t use the past tense, because I still play older games, I have TS2 opened right now Every iteration has something I like about it, TS4 too, I’m very disappointed with it and I expected something completely different, but I can’t say that it doesn’t have literally anything I might like about it.
@Voeille
Did you play TS1/TS2 ? If you did, did you play in the same way ? You mention the closed world and those were closed so that's why I'm curious.
@gamekitten
For me, no, TS4 is not a RPG, badly made or not. It's a life simulation first and foremost, a big playground with AIs. You're not the first person who take MMO/RPG which includes life simulator elements (like eating/growing/getting married) as examples/inspiration/wishes/etc, while they seem completely opposite to what I expect from a Sims game. I don't play The Sims as a RPG which happens to allow you to grow/marry/buy a home. For me, the big strength of the Sims is all the AIs that interact with each other and with their environment in believable ways. It's the complex web of relationships I'm building generations after generations.
According to Rachel Franklin, the Sims 4 isn't really designed to be a life simulation game though. So Maxis didn't even really intend it to be.
"It’s less of a life simulation but more a game about drama.” Then Lucy added, "the Sims is a reductionist view of life, influenced by Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. It’s also a series that combines behavioral tension with user experimentation, were the best possible outcome is drama. Those outcomes are complemented by happy experiences like giving birth to a child or a first kiss." So it is nice that you think it was, but it's design was never intended to be with this iteration. It changed genres.
Source: http://venturebeat.com/2014/09/19/how-entertainment-and-life-gives-life-to-the-sims/
I guess it was intended to be like a drama show you watch on TV. The thing is, it even lacks drama. XD So honestly I don't know what it really is supposed to be. Maybe a sitcom show? Reminds me of the Truman Show or Pleasantville how they described that even "slapping" is offensive.
About why the closed world were made, a SimGuruEugi answered it here: "The idea behind the neighborhood architecture for Sims 4 was to make sure that the active lot was very well populated. So right now, all spawned Sims are vital to the immediate vicinity of the lot and the lot itself. It was a conscious design decision for the world to behave this way."
True, but I think it is why life stages got short-ended with this iteration. Then again they did say the Sims 4 was going back to "its roots" probably meaning back to Sims 1 life stages. I guess I just want more of a life simulation than what the Sims 4 brings to the table. It needs more depth.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
@Voeille
Did you play TS1/TS2 ? If you did, did you play in the same way ? You mention the closed world and those were closed so that's why I'm curious.
@gamekitten
For me, no, TS4 is not a RPG, badly made or not. It's a life simulation first and foremost, a big playground with AIs. You're not the first person who take MMO/RPG which includes life simulator elements (like eating/growing/getting married) as examples/inspiration/whishes/etc, while they seem completely opposite to what I expect from a Sims game. I don't play The Sims as a RPG which happens to allow you to grow/marry/buy a home. For me, the big strength of the Sims is all the AIs that interact with each other and with their environment in believable ways. It's the complex web of relationships I'm building generations after generations.
You did not totally read what I said.
This game is about the world they live in and they will interact with their environment. And exactly different from one or the other's NPCs? They will interact with NPCs. They will be able to build skills. And once more... If this game succeeds it will blow away most if not all other MMOs because of the depth of the pixel character not only as a life stimulator, but other genres that will enhance and deepen the life stimulator part in it.
I seriously do not understand that people do not see any quests in Sims 4. In gaming you get a quest (not just MMO/RPGs) to do or get something to achieve something once the quest is done. This is the same as a task, which is right there in Sims 4 aspirations. The jobs you get your Sims have daily tasks.. this is so they can achieve an advancement in their job quicker.
In MMO/Rpgs (among other game genres) Character is given a quest.. they do said quests to achieve a level, skill, and etc..
This game still in the making is more than taking on a likeness of a life stimulator.. it is bringing new depths of a life stimulator. And if you read both links fully, the player can play generations (you can play your child that your first character had if you have kids). No you can not play all of them in one shot, but still you can play generations. Complex relationships? Okay... let do this. Complex relationships can be had with NPCs and let us go deeper. You can have friends and family in real life be in your family in this game. So it goes beyond just guilds.
For me the only complex thing in Sims 4 is trying to make them a unique sim, to stop playing musical chairs, stop their gabbing and fun stuff so they can actually do something in their life.. Everything else is not complex, have any depth, or good time management.
And once more... I am not talking about making Sims anything. They changed the Sims from what a Sim game was really about. They made it a bad RPG/IMUV/Mobile app... Not me.
I guess you hooked on if they had took their time and used today's technology they could of had out done any Sims game ever made. I meant a Sims game.. like their previous versions but way better. And the game I was talking about is NOT a Sims game, but then again I do not think Sims 4 is a Sims game either.
-.-
This just made up my mind to fund the game..
If copies life.. no matter the genre it can be a life stimulator.. It does not have to be a Sims game to be a life stimulator..
@gamekitten
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you're talking about life simulator as in something that allow you to role-play life, to play life, and not a life simulation game, which is a genre with little AIs that simulate life, little AIs that pretends they are alive in your computer, and play with life. Sims games just happen to be a bit of both because of its life-like setting, and I care about both aspects. Playing with all the characters of my story, playing with many points of view, seeing my played Sims behave autonomously, I care about all these things.
It's not that I don't see any quests in TS4 by the way, it's that like you said, quests as in "asking the player to do some task" is not specific to RPGs. I never said TS4 didn't include quests-like content. And for that matter, I think all Sims game have included this type of content, even TS1.
@gamekitten
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you're talking about life simulator as in something that allow you to role-play life, to play life, and not a life simulation game, which is a genre with little AIs that simulate life, little AIs that pretends they are alive in your computer, and play with life. Sims games just happen to be a bit of both because of its life-like setting, and I care about both aspects. Playing with all the characters of my story, playing with many points of view, seeing my played Sims behave autonomously, I care about all these things.
It's not that I don't see any quests in TS4 by the way, it's that like you said, quests as in "asking the player to do some task" is not specific to RPGs. I never said TS4 didn't include quests-like content. And for that matter, I think all Sims game have included this type of content, even TS1.
@gamekitten
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you're talking about life simulator as in something that allow you to role-play life, to play life, and not a life simulation game, which is a genre with little AIs that simulate life, little AIs that pretends they are alive in your computer, and play with life. Sims games just happen to be a bit of both because of its life-like setting, and I care about both aspects. Playing with all the characters of my story, playing with many points of view, seeing my played Sims behave autonomously, I care about all these things.
It's not that I don't see any quests in TS4 by the way, it's that like you said, quests as in "asking the player to do some task" is not specific to RPGs. I never said TS4 didn't include quests-like content. And for that matter, I think all Sims game have included this type of content, even TS1.
@gamekitten
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you're talking about life simulator as in something that allow you to role-play life, to play life, and not a life simulation game, which is a genre with little AIs that simulate life, little AIs that pretends they are alive in your computer, and play with life. Sims games just happen to be a bit of both because of its life-like setting, and I care about both aspects. Playing with all the characters of my story, playing with many points of view, seeing my played Sims behave autonomously, I care about all these things.
It's not that I don't see any quests in TS4 by the way, it's that like you said, quests as in "asking the player to do some task" is not specific to RPGs. I never said TS4 didn't include quests-like content. And for that matter, I think all Sims game have included this type of content, even TS1.
And they address Sims as a social/dollhouse stimulator...XD
Yes, a life simulation with a bigger focus on the relations between artificial lives.
XD... Read it all and try not to just add what you want it to mean. And in the other game what you said is exactly what happens.
As far as I know to date.. Is the difference between the two game wise is...
Sims 4: Single player, control over multiple people, has a baby stage (and this is a if, because there is not enough information on having kids in the other game), closed worlds, smaller worlds, and can play a larger family at once.
The other game: Lot more realistic, set in a fantasy medieval like era, large opened worlds, fighting with weapons, longer time to age, online, more genres (that to me will enhance the life stimulation), mount/rides, layered clothing, putting your rewards in pockets of clothing instead of one place, actual dynamic aging, weather that is dynamic and accumulates, no bars over the characters heads (you actually have to meet people and NPCs to know their names and who they are), Kings, Queens, Peasants, Lords, Dukes, and etc. That is to date of what I have found out since it still in the make (estimated to be 2017)..
>.> I cut it short on the other game also, because there is just so much depth and complexity to what the game is at this stage...why I edited this comment.
Yeah I think social simulator fits the Sims 4 description pretty well. Because all the Sims do is talk and play on the electronics and party. I really miss when Sims weren't so selfish but they really are in this iteration. They just don't care what happens to other Sims. It is like they are heartless robot creatures now. Doesn't matter if a family member cheats or dies. They couldn't care less.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Yeah I think social simulator fits the Sims 4 description pretty well. Because all the Sims do is talk and play on the electronics and party. I really miss when Sims weren't so selfish but they really are in this iteration. They just don't care what happens to other Sims. It is like they are heartless robot creatures now. Doesn't matter if a family member cheats or dies. They couldn't care less.
To me you contradict yourself here because the focus on social relations is much less in TS4 than it was in the earlier Sims games. You don't use much time on creating such relations anymore and you don't have family trees that go many generations back. You also don't have places where you can write or read stories about their social connections to other sims anymore.
Instead it seems that the developers worked much too hard on making the Sims 4 different from all earlier Sims games because their way of doing doesn't work very well. They attempted to make sims more intelligent so the sims just could use another similar object instead of the one you ordered them to use and to sit down before they talked etc. and they changed the game's focus away from creating social relations to working on skills and collecting objects. They also wanted to introduce challenges (similar to other games) and to force us to use more of our time on creating sims and houses. So the game is now less of a social game and more of a dressing and building simulation with quests and creating challenges as added features. (Therefore I don't play it anymore.)
I understand that complexity also includes small details. I am impressed that the water of The Sims 2 pool is the only of the series that has physical effects that react to the weight of the Sims, and is also the only one that has ripple effect.
Yeah I think social simulator fits the Sims 4 description pretty well. Because all the Sims do is talk and play on the electronics and party. I really miss when Sims weren't so selfish but they really are in this iteration. They just don't care what happens to other Sims. It is like they are heartless robot creatures now. Doesn't matter if a family member cheats or dies. They couldn't care less.
To me you contradict yourself here because the focus on social relations is much less in TS4 than it was in the earlier Sims games. You don't use much time on creating such relations anymore and you don't have family trees that go many generations back. You also don't have places where you can write or read stories about their social connections to other sims anymore.
Instead it seems that the developers worked much too hard on making the Sims 4 different from all earlier Sims games because their way of doing doesn't work very well. They attempted to make sims more intelligent so the sims just could use another similar object instead of the one you ordered them to use and to sit down before they talked etc. and they changed the game's focus away from creating social relations to working on skills and collecting objects. They also wanted to introduce challenges (similar to other games) and to force us to use more of our time on creating sims and houses. So the game is now less of a social game and more of a dressing and building simulation with quests and creating challenges as added features. (Therefore I don't play it anymore.)
That is true. The game does seem more career driven than social driven. I think Will Wright made a chart about that. That too much of one thing makes gutterballs.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Yeah I think social simulator fits the Sims 4 description pretty well. Because all the Sims do is talk and play on the electronics and party. I really miss when Sims weren't so selfish but they really are in this iteration. They just don't care what happens to other Sims. It is like they are heartless robot creatures now. Doesn't matter if a family member cheats or dies. They couldn't care less.
To me you contradict yourself here because the focus on social relations is much less in TS4 than it was in the earlier Sims games. You don't use much time on creating such relations anymore and you don't have family trees that go many generations back. You also don't have places where you can write or read stories about their social connections to other sims anymore.
Instead it seems that the developers worked much too hard on making the Sims 4 different from all earlier Sims games because their way of doing doesn't work very well. They attempted to make sims more intelligent so the sims just could use another similar object instead of the one you ordered them to use and to sit down before they talked etc. and they changed the game's focus away from creating social relations to working on skills and collecting objects. They also wanted to introduce challenges (similar to other games) and to force us to use more of our time on creating sims and houses. So the game is now less of a social game and more of a dressing and building simulation with quests and creating challenges as added features. (Therefore I don't play it anymore.)
That is true. The game does seem more career driven than social driven. I think Will Wright made a chart about that. That too much of one thing makes gutterballs.
It is probably the current time and just me who has become too old But I still remember a time (many years ago though) where romantic relations started very slow and under supervision. Then people were engaged in months before they finally became married and moved in together
Today young people can meat eachother at random, sleep together half an hour later and the next morning agree to move in together. So I guess that it is such changes that motivated the developers to also speed such things so extremely up in TS4 compared to the previous Sims games
For me it just make the gameplay too trivial. I never cared much about changing their looks or to give them nice looking furniture which didn't even really improve the gameplay. So only working on skills, collections and careers were left for me to care about - and it just wasn't enough.
I wasn't one of the toddler fans. So it didn't affect me much that they were omitted and that babies and teens were simplified. But because also flirting, building romantic relations and marriages were simplified and didn't take any time there just wasn't enough for me in the game anymore and I don't believe that future expansions will be able to make this much better. So I just stopped playing and looked for other games instead. To me even the Sims Freeplay is much more interesting even though it is a free game and not at all expensive like TS4 with all its many costly expansions.
Yeah I think social simulator fits the Sims 4 description pretty well. Because all the Sims do is talk and play on the electronics and party. I really miss when Sims weren't so selfish but they really are in this iteration. They just don't care what happens to other Sims. It is like they are heartless robot creatures now. Doesn't matter if a family member cheats or dies. They couldn't care less.
To me you contradict yourself here because the focus on social relations is much less in TS4 than it was in the earlier Sims games. You don't use much time on creating such relations anymore and you don't have family trees that go many generations back. You also don't have places where you can write or read stories about their social connections to other sims anymore.
Instead it seems that the developers worked much too hard on making the Sims 4 different from all earlier Sims games because their way of doing doesn't work very well. They attempted to make sims more intelligent so the sims just could use another similar object instead of the one you ordered them to use and to sit down before they talked etc. and they changed the game's focus away from creating social relations to working on skills and collecting objects. They also wanted to introduce challenges (similar to other games) and to force us to use more of our time on creating sims and houses. So the game is now less of a social game and more of a dressing and building simulation with quests and creating challenges as added features. (Therefore I don't play it anymore.)
That is true. The game does seem more career driven than social driven. I think Will Wright made a chart about that. That too much of one thing makes gutterballs.
Awesome statement I completely agree with, but *cough* need bars *cough cough*
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Diablo was famous for its random dungeons too !
I know Sims is more funnier, but I just thought what if Maxis took their time the possibility they could of had with Sims 4 in depth, time management, and complexity. The videos of this MMO and the developers passion and the way they showed bits of the game they have done.
And it takes some serious work to do life stimulator in an MMO of that complexity (You have a family or can be a ward of the state) and shows me all the too hard for Sims 4 is just an excuse. They even have farming, pets, and mounts. I am not comparing funny to realistic (although I find very little in Sims 4 as humorous). I am comparing the dedication and passion of developers; the complexity, the time management ( it takes 10 to 12 months in real time for your character to die of old age if you take care of your character during their life), and the depth.
And it just makes me even more annoyed and sad at the state of Sims 4. But happy that there are people in gaming development out there to take on new age technology for gaming.
What was it called? That sounds like fun. ☺
It still in kickstarter. I am watching it, but do read about it.. Their estimated delivery is Dec 2017..
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulboundstudios/chronicles-of-elyria-epic-story-mmorpg-with-aging/description
Both offer you information about the game.
Just so you know it will be an MMO meaning online. The mixing of genre style is simply amazing. There is PvP, but please read about it.. I hate PvP but I read about theirs...and still interested.
It still wows me with so much depth in just the character alone..
Edited, to say it will be something like sub, read to find out more (not monthly)..
But isn't MMO/Survival something different from what the Sims is about ? Isn't this game more an RPG with some life simualtion elements ? Is this what you're interested in Sims game ? Role-playing characters in a life-like settings ? I'm personally not, and I would be sad to see The Sims franchise, which is a life simulation for me, become yet another RPG, except in a Sims world.
Am I the only one who care about autonomous behaviors ? Unplayed Sims being true Sims ? Being able to play with dozens of Sims and craft their relations ?
I’m interested in that as well, I mentioned before (or in a different thread, I don’t remember) that my preferred play style is controlling a single sim and interacting with the world, so how uncontrolled sims behave does matter to me. I want my sim to interact with interesting and unique personalities, sims who have their own life, who aren’t generic.
I recall one save from TS3 where I really played like that. I edited the population of Sunset Valley in CAS (something like this, I edited populations of several worlds like that and the amount of edited sims counts in hundreds, I really was obsessed with that
It’s sad I can’t replicate it in TS4, of course the main reason is closed words, but also the sims don’t seem to do many different things to walking without any purpose, jogging and chatting. In TS3 when they were walking it did have a purpose.
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And Sims 4 isn't a badly made RPG? You have quest. You have to meet those quests. Tasks/Chores is also quests in gaming. Also I was not comparing genre but the complexity, depth, and time management. And I even mentioned I was not comparing the realistic to funny (cartoony, unrealistic). And there is a ALOT more life stimulation in this game being worked on. You are 12 when you start the game with a family or a ward of the state. You grow up learning from that family (ward of state not sure yet). You can buy a lot and build a house. You can decorate the house with furniture and etc. You can farm (grow crops and raise animals). You can have a job. You have to pay bills (taxes). You continue to grow as your character is being played. You can get married and have kids. And when old you will eventually die of old age (perm death, the end of that character forever). You have to eat, drink, watch your health. How is that not a life stimulator? The weather is real and does affect your character. The way you treat your character matters the outcome of that character.. again is not that part of a life stimulator? It is not some life stimulation they are working on.. it is a lot of life stimulator more than any other game I have known. There is so much more depth in this game that it would take me awhile to go par to par with Sims 4 and this game.
And I do like an autonomous behaviors. But to me Sims 4 is a joke. Sims 2 I still play. And exactly what is a Sim? Especially in Sims 4.. a role playing character. Doesn't matter if it is cartoony, pudding faces, or realistic.
I was making a point about the depth, complexity, and time management compared to Sims 4. Not saying they should make an MMO or just like the game I was talking about. EA and whatever development team could not even make this kind of game. It takes money, time, and dedication. So, I certainly wasn't saying EA make this game and if they did try I would not buy it for my own reasons they are good reasons.
Even if this game doesn't make it (not talking about Sims 4); I applaud the development team for stepping onto a brave path. They thought outside the box.
When I said if Maxis took their time they could outdone any Sims game ever made with today's gaming technology. It was an example in a little depth.
Did you play TS1/TS2 ? If you did, did you play in the same way ? You mention the closed world and those were closed so that's why I'm curious.
@gamekitten
For me, no, TS4 is not a RPG, badly made or not. It's a life simulation first and foremost, a big playground with AIs. You're not the first person who take MMO/RPG which includes life simulator elements (like eating/growing/getting married) as examples/inspiration/whishes/etc, while they seem completely opposite to what I expect from a Sims game. I don't play The Sims as a RPG which happens to allow you to grow/marry/buy a home. For me, the big strength of the Sims is all the AIs that interact with each other and with their environment in believable ways. It's the complex web of relationships I'm building generations after generations.
I did play those, my experience with The Sims started when I was a 6 year old child
Actually I shouldn’t use the past tense, because I still play older games, I have TS2 opened right now
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"It’s less of a life simulation but more a game about drama.” Then Lucy added, "the Sims is a reductionist view of life, influenced by Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. It’s also a series that combines behavioral tension with user experimentation, were the best possible outcome is drama. Those outcomes are complemented by happy experiences like giving birth to a child or a first kiss." So it is nice that you think it was, but it's design was never intended to be with this iteration. It changed genres.
Source: http://venturebeat.com/2014/09/19/how-entertainment-and-life-gives-life-to-the-sims/
I guess it was intended to be like a drama show you watch on TV. The thing is, it even lacks drama. XD So honestly I don't know what it really is supposed to be. Maybe a sitcom show? Reminds me of the Truman Show or Pleasantville how they described that even "slapping" is offensive.
About why the closed world were made, a SimGuruEugi answered it here: "The idea behind the neighborhood architecture for Sims 4 was to make sure that the active lot was very well populated. So right now, all spawned Sims are vital to the immediate vicinity of the lot and the lot itself. It was a conscious design decision for the world to behave this way."
Source: http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p35
"Less" does not mean "not at all" though
You did not totally read what I said.
This game is about the world they live in and they will interact with their environment. And exactly different from one or the other's NPCs? They will interact with NPCs. They will be able to build skills. And once more... If this game succeeds it will blow away most if not all other MMOs because of the depth of the pixel character not only as a life stimulator, but other genres that will enhance and deepen the life stimulator part in it.
I seriously do not understand that people do not see any quests in Sims 4. In gaming you get a quest (not just MMO/RPGs) to do or get something to achieve something once the quest is done. This is the same as a task, which is right there in Sims 4 aspirations. The jobs you get your Sims have daily tasks.. this is so they can achieve an advancement in their job quicker.
In MMO/Rpgs (among other game genres) Character is given a quest.. they do said quests to achieve a level, skill, and etc..
This game still in the making is more than taking on a likeness of a life stimulator.. it is bringing new depths of a life stimulator. And if you read both links fully, the player can play generations (you can play your child that your first character had if you have kids). No you can not play all of them in one shot, but still you can play generations. Complex relationships? Okay... let do this. Complex relationships can be had with NPCs and let us go deeper. You can have friends and family in real life be in your family in this game. So it goes beyond just guilds.
For me the only complex thing in Sims 4 is trying to make them a unique sim, to stop playing musical chairs, stop their gabbing and fun stuff so they can actually do something in their life.. Everything else is not complex, have any depth, or good time management.
And once more... I am not talking about making Sims anything. They changed the Sims from what a Sim game was really about. They made it a bad RPG/IMUV/Mobile app... Not me.
I guess you hooked on if they had took their time and used today's technology they could of had out done any Sims game ever made. I meant a Sims game.. like their previous versions but way better. And the game I was talking about is NOT a Sims game, but then again I do not think Sims 4 is a Sims game either.
-.-
This just made up my mind to fund the game..
If copies life.. no matter the genre it can be a life stimulator.. It does not have to be a Sims game to be a life stimulator..
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you're talking about life simulator as in something that allow you to role-play life, to play life, and not a life simulation game, which is a genre with little AIs that simulate life, little AIs that pretends they are alive in your computer, and play with life. Sims games just happen to be a bit of both because of its life-like setting, and I care about both aspects. Playing with all the characters of my story, playing with many points of view, seeing my played Sims behave autonomously, I care about all these things.
It's not that I don't see any quests in TS4 by the way, it's that like you said, quests as in "asking the player to do some task" is not specific to RPGs. I never said TS4 didn't include quests-like content. And for that matter, I think all Sims game have included this type of content, even TS1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_simulation_game
And they address Sims as a social/dollhouse stimulator...XD
Yes, a life simulation with a bigger focus on the relations between artificial lives.
XD... Read it all and try not to just add what you want it to mean. And in the other game what you said is exactly what happens.
As far as I know to date.. Is the difference between the two game wise is...
Sims 4: Single player, control over multiple people, has a baby stage (and this is a if, because there is not enough information on having kids in the other game), closed worlds, smaller worlds, and can play a larger family at once.
The other game: Lot more realistic, set in a fantasy medieval like era, large opened worlds, fighting with weapons, longer time to age, online, more genres (that to me will enhance the life stimulation), mount/rides, layered clothing, putting your rewards in pockets of clothing instead of one place, actual dynamic aging, weather that is dynamic and accumulates, no bars over the characters heads (you actually have to meet people and NPCs to know their names and who they are), Kings, Queens, Peasants, Lords, Dukes, and etc. That is to date of what I have found out since it still in the make (estimated to be 2017)..
>.> I cut it short on the other game also, because there is just so much depth and complexity to what the game is at this stage...why I edited this comment.
Instead it seems that the developers worked much too hard on making the Sims 4 different from all earlier Sims games because their way of doing doesn't work very well. They attempted to make sims more intelligent so the sims just could use another similar object instead of the one you ordered them to use and to sit down before they talked etc. and they changed the game's focus away from creating social relations to working on skills and collecting objects. They also wanted to introduce challenges (similar to other games) and to force us to use more of our time on creating sims and houses. So the game is now less of a social game and more of a dressing and building simulation with quests and creating challenges as added features. (Therefore I don't play it anymore.)
Today young people can meat eachother at random, sleep together half an hour later and the next morning agree to move in together. So I guess that it is such changes that motivated the developers to also speed such things so extremely up in TS4 compared to the previous Sims games
For me it just make the gameplay too trivial. I never cared much about changing their looks or to give them nice looking furniture which didn't even really improve the gameplay. So only working on skills, collections and careers were left for me to care about - and it just wasn't enough.
I wasn't one of the toddler fans. So it didn't affect me much that they were omitted and that babies and teens were simplified. But because also flirting, building romantic relations and marriages were simplified and didn't take any time there just wasn't enough for me in the game anymore and I don't believe that future expansions will be able to make this much better. So I just stopped playing and looked for other games instead. To me even the Sims Freeplay is much more interesting even though it is a free game and not at all expensive like TS4 with all its many costly expansions.