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We're Not Beta Testers. Discuss.
tea_and_blues
Posts: 889 Member
It's increasingly clear that EA is using its consumers as part of its development process. The financial recession, cuts to staffing. The pressure is on. My sympathies lie with the developers who are forced to practice such bad business in the name of profit as much as it lies with the consumers who have, almost invariably, found The Sims 3 and its recent expansion don't function very well. We're at the point of patching the patches. The issues are too long to list, and the communication from developers is less than swift in comparison to other game brands I've dealt with (although it's not unacceptable). I'm seeing reviewers and fansites that usually could not be more blindly fanboyish about The Sims 3 making serious complaints about this game for the first time since it launched, and it's because of another apparently insufficiently tested patch onto an insufficiently polished game.
I love The Sims 3. I can see the hard work that has gone into it, and I am grateful. EA in particular are marketing games and promoting release dates far too early, and they need to reassess their business model, because currently they're handing potentially brilliant content over to consumers unfinished. It's a headache that borders on customer abuse. There are no other games like this, and in that sense EA has a monopoly. I don't want to stop buying EA or the Sims series, but I do want well-coded, largely functional games. The Sims isn't that. It operates terribly on the low end of the recommended specs, and at the high end the lack of V-Sync support is literally making my graphics card whine without a third-party fps limiter (I have an ATI Radeon 4890 on a new Windows 7 system). It looks suspiciously as if the window for operating this game is considerably smaller than the game's marketing team has let on. CC is blamed far too often instead of the programming, even though it is a major vector for instability, it's clear a lot is not right under this game's hood. I've removed all my CC a couple of months ago now, and it hasn't saved me from the bugs (although Windows 7 + new graphics card has ended my CTDs thankfully). I'm a recent convert to The Sims, but I'm also a hard-working consumer on an average wage. I can't afford to purchase buggy, incompatible software and then pitch in with the Sims community to help the developers fix up the gaping holes.
What do you guys think? Is this sentiment shared? I don't mean to be a downer, but I think Sims consumers are getting quite bug-fatigued. I'm the last remaining person among my mates who hasn't gone back to Sims 2.
More importantly, what do EA staff think? I work in a creative corporate field. This is like if all my team's work went out without proof-reading, and we then fixed it up according to the response we got. Our clients would have a right to be furious. That said, I know the pressures. But this isn't good business practice - sure, it nets profit, but the long-term damage to your brand is enormous and it increases exponentially. Is it simply down to poor resourcing?
Gosh, I'm a mixture of total excitement over WA (which releases here in two days), and total dread that I'll suffer the same bugs as so many other people. This one, in particular, was an obvious possibility: If you're changing formats for something, check it doesn't destroy compatibility. Did the programmers seriously not DO this test on a range of systems?
Something is wrong with EA: I'm not the first to say it.
So, again, what is everyone else's take. Please agree or disagree with anything I've said as you see fit. But let's all be polite.
I love The Sims 3. I can see the hard work that has gone into it, and I am grateful. EA in particular are marketing games and promoting release dates far too early, and they need to reassess their business model, because currently they're handing potentially brilliant content over to consumers unfinished. It's a headache that borders on customer abuse. There are no other games like this, and in that sense EA has a monopoly. I don't want to stop buying EA or the Sims series, but I do want well-coded, largely functional games. The Sims isn't that. It operates terribly on the low end of the recommended specs, and at the high end the lack of V-Sync support is literally making my graphics card whine without a third-party fps limiter (I have an ATI Radeon 4890 on a new Windows 7 system). It looks suspiciously as if the window for operating this game is considerably smaller than the game's marketing team has let on. CC is blamed far too often instead of the programming, even though it is a major vector for instability, it's clear a lot is not right under this game's hood. I've removed all my CC a couple of months ago now, and it hasn't saved me from the bugs (although Windows 7 + new graphics card has ended my CTDs thankfully). I'm a recent convert to The Sims, but I'm also a hard-working consumer on an average wage. I can't afford to purchase buggy, incompatible software and then pitch in with the Sims community to help the developers fix up the gaping holes.
What do you guys think? Is this sentiment shared? I don't mean to be a downer, but I think Sims consumers are getting quite bug-fatigued. I'm the last remaining person among my mates who hasn't gone back to Sims 2.
More importantly, what do EA staff think? I work in a creative corporate field. This is like if all my team's work went out without proof-reading, and we then fixed it up according to the response we got. Our clients would have a right to be furious. That said, I know the pressures. But this isn't good business practice - sure, it nets profit, but the long-term damage to your brand is enormous and it increases exponentially. Is it simply down to poor resourcing?
Gosh, I'm a mixture of total excitement over WA (which releases here in two days), and total dread that I'll suffer the same bugs as so many other people. This one, in particular, was an obvious possibility: If you're changing formats for something, check it doesn't destroy compatibility. Did the programmers seriously not DO this test on a range of systems?
Something is wrong with EA: I'm not the first to say it.
So, again, what is everyone else's take. Please agree or disagree with anything I've said as you see fit. But let's all be polite.
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Comments
Edit: Spelling
In Sims2, I really didn't mind, as an early adapter, feeling like a paying beta tester. It felt like many of the problems were related more to getting the game to work across a wide variety of platforms once it hit the market than anything and, though they could be slow about getting patches out, and I felt they were listening to us.
I never used 3rd party mods, except one to remove the aesthetically distasteful and insulting censor blur, and never felt I needed one with Sims2.
But Sims3 immediately took away the way I play -- continuity w/in the neighborhood when playing multiple households -- and I had to install a mod w/in three days of purchasing the thing.
And everything seems kinda dumbed-down. Sims teleporting into vehicles instead of getting into vehicles makes it hard to suspend disbelief. Conversations between Sims seem pointless now. When Sims2 Sims Gossip, their dialog balloons would tell you who and what they were gossiping about (I'm sure the Memory Icons played into this). It was engaging and surprising. Now, when Sims3 Sims Gossip, all you see is a dialog balloon that says "I am Gossiping."
The more I play, the more let-down I feel. The Sims was just amazing; the Sims2 was an incredible leap forward; the Sims3 is a leap sideways, at best.
I just realized: If another maker had come out with a life-simulator just like Sims3, but without the Sims branding, I would never have abandoned Sims2 for it.
Annette Thayer butts heads with the late Eric Lewis on her first day as steward.
Like most RPG's you need good customer service, Look at World of warcraft and Aion, their CS is rockin, while i understand EA postion, i do think there should be some sort of response to this. Hell if u want beta testas for a EP, why not just make a post asking or pick random players or something
I find it really weird that they made this call too. I never played the Sims 2 until after I'd bought The Sims 3, but it is MUCH more immersive because you control a community, not just a family. You can't play that way in TS3, because it's designed to discourage changing active families. That strikes me as a step backwards. Why alienate your market by making the game less customisable than its predecessor. Now, if they reintroduce the 'influence' system so that we can edit non-active Sims' clothing and hair to be less... ...funky... ...that might start to make the game feel right, but it still won't make up for the obvious and tragic loss of whole-town simming.
Perhaps it's because I come fresh to the series, but I don't agree that the interactions and gameplay is too dumbed down. It has extended into some areas, contracted in others. Except for the issue you mentioned above, I don't agree. The Sims 2 with all its expansions does offer more depth, though, doesn't it. I made a tea shop and cafe using OFB on my friend's game and it was a brilliant experience.
A petition is easily ignored, and they almost all are. What can we seriously do? We can ask for Sim_Guru response, but they cannot because they'd risk contradicting the company line that everything is okay. I know there is a bit of a boycott on the game in that no-one I know is buying the EP (because they've all gone back to TS2). I think that's not uncommon, but the sales for the EP are still bound to be good. EA is exploiting the fact that casual gamers are usually an uncritical market - at least a very tolerant market. As consumers, we don't have a lot of power here. I'd never recommend piracy (developers have to eat), and boycotts deprive us of the game altogether. I think we need to be far more open and articulate about our issues with the company's practice, on the forums, and on fansites. The company has sims addicts by a strangehold. We don't want to boycott, but we do want better service. EA is already a much-maligned brand outside of sports titles, let's make it clear that they ARE doing further damage to their brand over the long-term. Any ideas?
How about adding 'EA: Producer of great games, only ever half finished' to our signatures. Not just on this forum, though. On every gaming forum we might attend. It's cheesey, but it's a serious issue for any company when clients mount such action, even at a small scale.
Petitions as well, of course, but as a corporate employee I know how easily they're dismissed unless they're combined with a dedicated and broadly supported campaign.
Also, how about we get people bumping this thread whenever they have a glitch that, on the balance of probability, is from the developers, not third parties/user input? In that regard, don't bump if you use mods. CC is fine, but mods compromise our position. Possibly too much effort, but worth a try.
By the way, I have to say, this amazes me. Usually developers are over-catering to high-end systems, not ensuring that they're destructive to them! My game was rendering at 230 fps, no wonder it was crashing to desktop, the card was overheating all the time! I'm hoping that WA introduces support.
Good points. Thanks for helping me temper my, uh, temper.
There are a lot of areas that are actually smarted-up, like more depth in Skills development, expanded inventory control, etc., it just seems like they sacrificed a lot about what I liked in Sims2 to get there.
I was probably a minority in the marketplace. From the forums I get the idea more people played legacy-style -- extensively developing a single househoold -- than playing the whole neighborhood like I prefer.
Annette Thayer butts heads with the late Eric Lewis on her first day as steward.
(Oh, and before anyone gets cross with me, the caps are theirs, not mine.)
From S3 EULA:
8. Disclaimer of Warranties. EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTY ON
RECORDING MEDIA FOUND IN THE PRODUCT MANUAL, AS APPLICABLE,
AND TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMISSIBLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW,
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED TO YOU “AS IS,” WITH ALL FAULTS,
WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, AND YOUR USE IS AT YOUR SOLE
RISK. THE ENTIRE RISK OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND
PERFORMANCE RESIDES WITH YOU. EA AND EA’S LICENSORS
(COLLECTIVELY “EA” FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION AND SECTION 9) DO
NOT MAKE, AND HEREBY DISCLAIM, ANY AND ALL EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR
STATUTORY WARRANTIES, INCLUDING IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF CONDITION,
UNINTERRUPTED USE, MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, FITNESS
FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS,
AND WARRANTIES (IF ANY) ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE,
OR TRADE PRACTICE. EA DOES NOT WARRANT AGAINST
INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE SOFTWARE; THAT THE SOFTWARE
WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS; THAT OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL
BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL BE
COMPATIBLE WITH THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE OR THAT ANY ERRORS IN THE
SOFTWARE WILL BE CORRECTED. NO ORAL OR WRITTEN ADVICE
PROVIDED BY EA OR ANY AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE SHALL CREATE A
WARRANTY. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF OR
LIMITATIONS ON IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE LIMITATIONS ON THE
APPLICABLE STATUTORY RIGHTS OF A CONSUMER, SO SOME OR ALL
OF THE ABOVE EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.
I couldn't agree more. Luckily, I can force vsync on 'cos I have the nVidia control panel, otherwise I fear my GTX 280 would have melted by now.
Cheers, EA. And thanks again for the good laugh your EULA gave me. Maybe I'm warped, but sitting amongst the wreckage of my post-patched game, I genuinely had to laugh as I read it. :twisted:
Edit: Why is my formatting all wonky - or am I the only one who can see the tags? And why is the EULA all scrambled. Oh, look, I give up. Sorry, guys.
"Is there a problem? Yes? Ok then, head to the forums for your answer and/or fix." -Typical Warcraft Jargon
Did the Developers from EA just graduate from Devry? I mean...seriously. Granted, it all isnt the Devs fault 100% but as of lately...EA is on my list of companies NOT to buy-and-play with. The Pirate Bays copy of TS3 had ZERO problems, which was why I ended up BUYING it. This right here is why people pirate things. And yesterday I wanted to go by World Adventures sooooo bad, but then I realized...I wouldnt even be able to play it or my vanilla game.
When I downloaded the patch yesterday (without thinking because Im used to my patches DELIVERING RESULTS)I found that not only were there glitches, which Im ok with, but the results were game breaking. Those are two words I did not realize existed anymore: Game Breaking. On a game that doesnt even require you connect to the net to play.
So far I have to start over the 3rd Generation of a Legacy Family, Rebuild my entire town, twice and Re-download all my content. Now the 1st time I uninstalled/reinstalled was because I thought it was my entire library of mods, so I do not count that. But the second time, It allowed perfect game play and I was shocked and loved the new little changes...it was half the stuff that I should have got WITH the game! It allowed me to save and exit but when I came back my entire town was big blue squares...gone. My sims were auto moved to a house that just happened to load. I lost my entire inventory, bookshelves, fridge, ect. All of my sims lost thier traits and I could not cheat them back. It is as if parts of the game and scripts/codes/commands just......disappeared.
I dont know what to say other than I am astounded. It has been 2 days and nothing from EA. No fix, no news saying "Hey, we mucked up and were working on it." Nothing. THAT is what is truley infuriating.
ps- yea I hope my page comes out edited correctly as well >_> are the forums fail too? Big surprise...........
I love BTS and Ariana Grande.
If there are bugs, its because the corporate types have forced them to meet a deadline which either due to staff or whatever reason, they could not achieve.
I'm sure it is frustrating for people when their game doesn't work properly, but I have not experienced any problem which made the game unplayable.
Do I think they could have done a better job? Probably.
Have we been treated unfairly. No.
I pre-ordered WA. I got it last night and installed after work, and I LOVE it. It brings a whole new dynamic to playing the sims. It's soo much fun and the new places are amazing.
I have never had bug issues before until this latest patch. But my bug is minor. It doesn't allow you to save, but you can still save as. So it's not an overall concern.
I do hope they fix it, but in the mean time I have a solution that still allows me to keep my saved games and I'll be enjoying playing WA and anticipating the CAW Tool in the mean time.
I'm sorry for anyone else having major problems, but I got nothing but bright side to look at, and that's the way I choose.
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The developers have done their best, and I stand by them. The people to blame are the developers' managers, and yes, we are being treated unfairly. The very fact that EA posts losses and has all but shot its brand credibility while its exec team pockets an unmentionable amount of cash that would be far better spent ensuring the company's products are of a credible standard, the very fact that it's hard to find a single article praising EA despite its enormous power on the gaming industry. EA isn't thriving brand, it's just a BIG brand. It's fanbase resents it strongly, it hasn't taken me long to learn that. I'm sorry, but refusing to be honest with your customers, and alienating masses of them, is a very apt definition for the words 'unfair treatment'. Build a strong, positive brand through quality. It's an idea that EA pays a lot of lip-service to, but doesn't let its staff the resources and time to make good on the concept.
not tried to change households yet and I hear that can hold a surprise
Im not going to buy World Adventure until they get this main game a bit more stable
Why would they release a huge patch exactly the same day they released
World Adventure.
These forums are slow and glitchy enough as it it and they are worse then
ever. Not only do I think we are beta testers for the game but beta testers
for these forums
I agree that its the higher ups just a rushing it up but I wish more of the programers if this is the case had the gumption to say NO its not ready yet.
Doing this will cause lots of problems.........
I am happy that your game works for you,but the problems that we are experiencing are not minor, nor recent. We have a problem with the seriousness of the issues in what is increasingly appearing to be platform development. Problems that are aired ARE NOT BEING ADDRESSED! I, myself wrote a very courteous letter explaining my experience with Sims 3, and I am someone who owns EVERY expansion pack beginning with The Sims, Sims 2 and now Sims 3. The letter was removed from the forum! The slide in quality is apparent to longtime purchasers of the sims games. You should be concerned because if you are not having problems now, perhaps it is only a matter of time before you do if EA does not get a handle on the problems now. Every one here is a fan of the Sims, we want to continue to be fans, but we also expect value for our dollar. This is the first time that I have experienced or seen other people experience mass problems with the patches! We are patching the patches! I don't know what is acceptable to you where your purchasing dollars are concerned, for myself this has been quite a disappointment...I have lost all my sims 3 progress and had to reinstall twice. So I started over...well now, even with all cc removed and a clean install-I can't even get the game launcher to come up anymore in just the base game...I was able to get it to work if I didn't patch it, but you have no choice with the WA install...now i have nothing that works...still hoping but I guess I get an answer if they announce the next expansion pack before ironing out these major problems. Seems to me that someone is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs...
ConnorJack, firstly: I love your site. *fanboi wave*
Secondly: I totally agree. WA will be a great game once it is ready for commercial release. Given all we've seen of this EP and the base game, neither were ready for the public upon release. What we're getting is exciting and I am grateful, but that doesn't change the fact that: It's not finished.
I then decided to contact customer support. After 29 minutes of waiting I had an estimated 30 second wait time and was 4th in the queue when my chat session was cancelled! Still no resolution. I belong to a casual game club. I pay $6.99 for my games. The customer service thereis top notch.
The game is very beta, and I feel sorry for the developers who clearly don't have enough time to make the game amazing.
So, good luck with making EA fix all of this!
I don't know about you, but I have been a faithful simmer for a VERY LOOOOOOOOONG time, and I haven't seem this much HOO-HA over ANYTHING!!!! No, we are not the minority. There are literally hundreds of strings surrounding this topic: just type in Error 16, and see with amazement what comes up! DEFINATELY NOT A MINORITY!
EA: What can I say? I am disillusioned, at best. Its been a slippery slope, down from a genuinly incredible product in TS2, to the stench that is.... Yes, i feel for the programmers. I have no doubt that they have someone barking at them, and they are definately not the ones pocketing the profit. However, Management will also go the way of the DODO if EA doesn't do something seriously AMAZING to fix this because they will lose all their faithful customers. It has taken a lot for them to build the fan base that they have, and it seems that it will all come undone much quicker unless something compensating comes for us all.
To the management: I would give all your programmers a raise and ask them politely to fix this, while having a meeting about what you can give your gamers as compensations. Do not bark at them, but reward them and they might actually come up with something cool for a change.