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Festivals are mainly a recycle of the same stuff that we have

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    halimali1980halimali1980 Posts: 8,246 Member
    I hate illusions. They are just a pretend thing, a lie thing.

    So... why do you play video games? You know it's all pretend, right? None of it is a direct correlation to reality. Even educational games designed to help students understand history or geography or politics aren't.

    Do you know that they are called simulation for a reason right?? If Sims 4 was an RPG that would be fine. But it isn't. It is supposed to be a simulation. Like How Sims 2 buying and selling worked where something leads to another thing!

    In Sims 2
    Bella paints a painting ====> Bella sells it to Lothario & Gets the money ====> Lothario gets the actual painting and hang it in his house ===> Bella dies ====> Painting value goes up substantially ===> Lothario can sell the painting for a higher price to someone else, maybe to Bella's grandson!

    In Sims 4
    Bella paints a painting ===> Bella sells it to Lothario and gets the money (End of story). The painting has just disappeared, Did Lothario buy it? No.

    Do you see it??? Do you see how a simulation should be?

    I see one aspect of simulation. Sims 4 improves other aspects for me.

    For me, the game is not only one kind of simulation, and it's as much a storytelling tool as a simulation. There have always been limits to what it simulates. They just change from game to game.

    Your opinion about what it needs is an opinion, not a fact.

    And that does not make your opinion a fact too :smiley:
    Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
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    luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 37,628 Member
    I hate illusions. They are just a pretend thing, a lie thing.

    So... why do you play video games? You know it's all pretend, right? None of it is a direct correlation to reality. Even educational games designed to help students understand history or geography or politics aren't.

    Do you know that they are called simulation for a reason right?? If Sims 4 was an RPG that would be fine. But it isn't. It is supposed to be a simulation. Like How Sims 2 buying and selling worked where something leads to another thing!

    In Sims 2
    Bella paints a painting ====> Bella sells it to Lothario & Gets the money ====> Lothario gets the actual painting and hang it in his house ===> Bella dies ====> Painting value goes up substantially ===> Lothario can sell the painting for a higher price to someone else, maybe to Bella's grandson!

    In Sims 4
    Bella paints a painting ===> Bella sells it to Lothario and gets the money (End of story). The painting has just disappeared, Did Lothario buy it? No.

    Do you see it??? Do you see how a simulation should be?

    I see one aspect of simulation. Sims 4 improves other aspects for me.

    For me, the game is not only one kind of simulation, and it's as much a storytelling tool as a simulation. There have always been limits to what it simulates. They just change from game to game.

    Your opinion about what it needs is an opinion, not a fact.

    And that does not make your opinion a fact too :smiley:

    Nope. And you know what? I've never tried to claim it's one, or to tell other people they ought to share my opinion or what is wrong with them!?!?!?
    EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
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    CinderellimouseCinderellimouse Posts: 19,380 Member
    Hypothetical question (and I'm not arguing or anything, this is just a genuine curiosity):

    Say you are a producer with a limit budget and a deadline. Do you:

    1. Make 3 new features but reuse some animations.

    2. Make 1 new feature with all new animations.

    What I'm basically asking, is what do you value more highly? New features? Or animations?

    This argument falls flat on it's face when you recognize that Ambitions for example included more features than Get To Work, thus we are getting both less features and less animations.

    It wasn't intended as an argument, it was intended as a question. I was asking if you had to choose, which would you pick? Because I'm curious to know which people prefer.
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    NeiaNeia Posts: 4,190 Member
    @auramaris
    We all want all our dreams to come true, but we are all living into reality, with its set of constraints and thus our dreams can't all come true. There's so many animation an animator can do during a day before quality start to plummet, there's so many animator EA can hire into the Redwood Shore area and there's so many people interested in a game like the Sims. At some point, they have to make choices.

    There seems to be quite a lot of new animations in this pack (basket/console/karaoke have quite a lot) from what I've seen so far. And frankly, if they were to add new animations, I wouldn't want these to be specific to a festival anyway.

    @halimali1980
    How many stories ? A lot ! Only limited by imagination (and leisure time available :/). I like content that is reusable in a lot of different ways and while the rocket isn't the best example here, I'm sure I'll bring lots of my Sims to the festivals. Perhaps I have a different point of view because I didn't expect much from these in the first place.

    @DeservedCriticism
    There's a lot more than 1,000 animations in the game. There were around 11,000 animations in the game last I checked in April, it has probably increased since.
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    CinderellimouseCinderellimouse Posts: 19,380 Member
    edited October 2016
    it should provide BOTH types of simulation. ALL types. We want meaningful gameplay too.

    If my farmer sim spends weeks building the perfect potato garden, and perfecting her baking skill, then she should hypothetically make the best sweet potato pies in town. If I set up a bakery to sell her pies, sims should line up to buy them because they KNOW they are the best by word of mouth not because of a flashy sign outside. But the game doesn't work that way. My sims pies are no better than anyone elses who happen to have maxed out baking. The ingredients don't matter and neither does her garden. She has no reputation for her baking ability or her crops. She even as a sim has no meaning in my sim world and if she was culled, it wouldn't matter. She doesn't matter. None of it matters. She has no way of really touching the world, or leaving a mark. It's frustrating and boring.

    Now you're speaking my language! The cooking system could definitely use more work and I'll agree with your sentiments there, I also get that 'what's the point' feeling with cooking and gardening in the game. My main issue is that there is very little purpose to growing and/or using fresh produce. Firstly, I wish there was an option to make it so all recipes require ingredients. I liked the TS2 way of needing to buy groceries, and used Ani's mod for TS3 that meant I had to have ingredients or my sims couldn't eat. I like having sims who are producers of food, having sims who provide fish or veg to the town. But their role is void if ingredients magically appear. Secondly, the option to 'use fresh ingredients' has very little impact. It annoys me that meals still cost money if I have all the listed ingredients. So I do understand your feelings here, and I do wish they re-looked at things like this and gave them more purpose. I think this is an aspect they should consider when designing future content too.

    edit: spelling correction
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    auramarisauramaris Posts: 154 Member
    edited October 2016
    Neia wrote: »
    @auramaris
    We all want all our dreams to come true, but we are all living into reality, with its set of constraints and thus our dreams can't all come true. There's so many animation an animator can do during a day before quality start to plummet, there's so many animator EA can hire into the Redwood Shore area and there's so many people interested in a game like the Sims. At some point, they have to make choices.

    There seems to be quite a lot of new animations in this pack (basket/console/karaoke have quite a lot) from what I've seen so far. And frankly, if they were to add new animations, I wouldn't want these to be specific to a festival anyway.

    How come they were able to add more interactions in the eps for previous iterations then? How is wanting my sims to have more ways to interact with each other and the world around them is a "dream"?? This is simulation game basics why are you making it sound so extraordinary?

    If festivals are one of the main features there should also be new ways to play related to that and this thread is about festivals anyway. Remember when there were dancing contests in TS3 spring festival and a new slow dance interaction? That's the type of gameplay I'd like to see.
    Now my sims will go to a romance festival and flirt using the same base game interactions on a new lot. Groundbreaking.
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    NeiaNeia Posts: 4,190 Member
    auramaris wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    @auramaris
    We all want all our dreams to come true, but we are all living into reality, with its set of constraints and thus our dreams can't all come true. There's so many animation an animator can do during a day before quality start to plummet, there's so many animator EA can hire into the Redwood Shore area and there's so many people interested in a game like the Sims. At some point, they have to make choices.

    There seems to be quite a lot of new animations in this pack (basket/console/karaoke have quite a lot) from what I've seen so far. And frankly, if they were to add new animations, I wouldn't want these to be specific to a festival anyway.

    How come they were able to add more interactions in the eps for previous iterations then? How is wanting my sims to have more ways to interact with each other and the world around them is a "dream"?? This is simulation game basics why are you making it sound so extraordinary?

    If festivals are one of the main features there should also be new ways to play related to that and this thread is about festivals anyway. Remember when there were dancing contest in TS3 spring festival and a new slow dance interaction? That's the type of gameplay I'd like to see.
    Now my sims will go to a romance festival and flirt using the same base game interactions on a new lot. Groundbreaking.

    No, I skipped TS3 almost completely, it wasn't my cup of tea. I see interactions in this EP, just like in previous ones, even if it doesn't have all the animations we can ever dream of. Festivals do have new animations, the ones associated with the stalls for example, the new eating animations, bubble ones, throwing petals.
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    Renamed2002180839Renamed2002180839 Posts: 3,444 Member
    Hypothetical question (and I'm not arguing or anything, this is just a genuine curiosity):

    Say you are a producer with a limit budget and a deadline. Do you:

    1. Make 3 new features but reuse some animations.

    2. Make 1 new feature with all new animations.

    What I'm basically asking, is what do you value more highly? New features? Or animations?

    This argument falls flat on it's face when you recognize that Ambitions for example included more features than Get To Work, thus we are getting both less features and less animations.

    It wasn't intended as an argument, it was intended as a question. I was asking if you had to choose, which would you pick? Because I'm curious to know which people prefer.

    The question is not to me BUT I would pick a blending of the two and ideally a company focused on developing a new client base through exceptional product offerings. I'd chose to focus on two features with 75% new animations and game play. Then I have a twitch feed showing how and why I did what I did so people could understand, in reality, the constraints as opposed to just theorizing about them to support an argument justifying what appears to be corner cutting work.

    In the late seventies through the eighties there was a vein of thought in Sci-Fi television programming that you just created a bank of Special Effects shots that could be used over and over in the series, thereby saving money and generating more profit for the production company. These moves nearly always failed as the shots quickly became stale and cast a moldy feeling on the episiodes using them. The same is true here. Seeing the same animations over and over and over makes the game seem stale and cheap and under-developed.
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    SimGuruDrakeSimGuruDrake Posts: 1,648 SimGuru (retired)
    Good morning everyone!

    A few things:
    • Friendly reminder that opinions =/= fact.
    • You should NEVER say that someone's opinion doesn't matter or that others should stop listening to them simply because their opinion differs from yours.
    • It is fine for someone to like something just as much as it is fine for someone to dislike something.
    • When providing constructive feedback remember to make suggestions, saying "this thing is horrible!" is not feedback - it is opinion. Feedback would be "this thing isn't appealing to me because XYZ, I'd be more interested in it if it had XYZ instead."

    Keep in mind that feedback is really more useful when you add in additional context on why something isn't appealing to you and what would make it more appealing.

    Lastly: When providing feedback it should not include attacks towards the team or EA. You can certainly express your feelings about the content but it should not include insults or accusations towards anyone (including fellow community members.)

    Thanks!
    Global Community Manager for Maxis / The Sims
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    simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 35,873 Member
    I thought this was the Expansion Pack forum. I guess Feedback is dead so everyone is hanging out here.
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    MrMonty96MrMonty96 Posts: 1,715 Member
    Bagoas77 wrote: »
    It's nothing new because EA has taken the 2 a.m. infomercial route with the sims... its "new and improved" content is just the same stuff repackaged over and over again with surprise glitter and bling bling font.

    Thisssssss.
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    MrMonty96MrMonty96 Posts: 1,715 Member
    I think by now we're all a bit fed up of the "ask a question" animation. God, it's everywhere.
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    cameronw209cameronw209 Posts: 1,497 Member
    MrMonty96 wrote: »
    I think by now we're all a bit fed up of the "ask a question" animation. God, it's everywhere.

    OMG I am so with you on this! It's one of my biggest gripes! Can't believe it's used as the animation to wake Sims up.

    "Hey, can you wake up please?" ... "thanks!"
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    aelias24aelias24 Posts: 220 Member
    To me the sims is like a puzzle. You can wait and fit all the pieces together, or leave it unfinished. Your choice. The sims 4 is an incomplete game until it's complete, lol.
    Real Life Is Never As Interesting As the SimswIiJK39.jpg
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    MrMonty96MrMonty96 Posts: 1,715 Member
    MrMonty96 wrote: »
    I think by now we're all a bit fed up of the "ask a question" animation. God, it's everywhere.

    OMG I am so with you on this! It's one of my biggest gripes! Can't believe it's used as the animation to wake Sims up.

    "Hey, can you wake up please?" ... "thanks!"

    All I can hear is "bayna whetza?" echoing in my ears whenever I play.
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    CreoleSimCreoleSim Posts: 334 Member
    edited October 2016
    I stopped following news on CL after I spent hours building Town homes, and Brownstones, only to find out we couldn't make our own apartments, which honestly is Plum as Plum. Limitations to compliment the already built limitation's. The floor limit is why the city is filled with Leggo-like plastic ultra modern buildings. Rehashed game play, lame, empty festivals to distract everyone from the nothingness that is this EP, just another Get Together. More cut corners.....I will not be getting this at all...

    *The Buildings in my Siggy were supposed to be converted into apartments, now they are just empty shells to look at, like 99% of this game, you mean to tell me, I'm stuck with only EA's ugly builds, and apartments to one tacky world? okay Sims 4, I've had enough of you.
    8zjsc9.png
    Origin@ Simday1
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    ChadSims2ChadSims2 Posts: 5,090 Member
    ChadSims2 wrote: »
    The festivals look extremely boring it reminds me of Get Together play base game content over and over but in a club! I agree with you they seem to refuse to make many new animations its not bad enough 4 life stages are exactly the same we have to keep rehashing the same content over again in "new ways" for expansions. I guess this is what we should expect when something like a lounge chair would be a main expansion feature as it cost so much because of new animations. I'm sure that's why we will never see toddlers either why put effort when people will buy any low quality product they push out.

    Hypothetical question (and I'm not arguing or anything, this is just a genuine curiosity):

    Say you are a producer with a limit budget and a deadline. Do you:

    1. Make 3 new features but reuse some animations.

    2. Make 1 new feature with all new animations.

    What I'm basically asking, is what do you value more highly? New features? Or animations?

    Of course, both is better. But if I had to chose, I'd chose option 1. But it does depend on the feature itself, there are some features where it would be more important to have the new animation, like romantic social interactions.

    I'd like to know what everyone thinks.
    At this point I'd go with one feature with new animations/interactions for that feature and not just a rehash what we can already do. Seriously I'd buy an expansion right now if it added in animations like opening the dishwasher making the bed opening kitchen cabinets and drawers Sims actually dancing together, kids playing tag and so on. The short cuts that have been taken are unacceptable to me we have had better in the past why expect less now.

    Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
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    Zeldaboy180Zeldaboy180 Posts: 5,997 Member
    I hate illusions. They are just a pretend thing, a lie thing.

    So... why do you play video games? You know it's all pretend, right? None of it is a direct correlation to reality. Even educational games designed to help students understand history or geography or politics aren't.

    Do you know that they are called simulation for a reason right?? If Sims 4 was an RPG that would be fine. But it isn't. It is supposed to be a simulation. Like How Sims 2 buying and selling worked where something leads to another thing!

    In Sims 2
    Bella paints a painting ====> Bella sells it to Lothario & Gets the money ====> Lothario gets the actual painting and hang it in his house ===> Bella dies ====> Painting value goes up substantially ===> Lothario can sell the painting for a higher price to someone else, maybe to Bella's grandson!

    In Sims 4
    Bella paints a painting ===> Bella sells it to Lothario and gets the money (End of story). The painting has just disappeared, Did Lothario buy it? No.

    Do you see it??? Do you see how a simulation should be?

    You couldn't even visit another Sims house in Sims 2 what are you talking about Lmao. I mean sure if you switched to their character you could do it yourself with Sims 2, but you could do that with Sims 4 too so your example is terrible.
    e68338c368f106ae784e73111955bd86.png
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    Zeldaboy180Zeldaboy180 Posts: 5,997 Member
    it should provide BOTH types of simulation. ALL types. We want meaningful gameplay too.

    If my farmer sim spends weeks building the perfect potato garden, and perfecting her baking skill, then she should hypothetically make the best sweet potato pies in town. If I set up a bakery to sell her pies, sims should line up to buy them because they KNOW they are the best by word of mouth not because of a flashy sign outside. But the game doesn't work that way. My sims pies are no better than anyone elses who happen to have maxed out baking. The ingredients don't matter and neither does her garden. She has no reputation for her baking ability or her crops. She even as a sim has no meaning in my sim world and if she was culled, it wouldn't matter. She doesn't matter. None of it matters. She has no way of really touching the world, or leaving a mark. It's frustrating and boring.

    Okay but that's never been possible in any of the PC Sims games.
    e68338c368f106ae784e73111955bd86.png
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    Prink34320Prink34320 Posts: 5,078 Member
    Recycle or innovate?
    Live your life to the fullest, don't wait for a miracle to happen, be the miracle to make things happen.
    Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
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    Prink34320Prink34320 Posts: 5,078 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    I love that they are reusing base game things. I don't want EPs to feel like a completely new and separate affair, I want to see a mix of old and new.

    Aren't you tired of watching your sims do nothing but eat and talk?

    You mean the majority of what allot of simmers had to do in The Sims/2/3, doesn't seem like it so far lol
    Live your life to the fullest, don't wait for a miracle to happen, be the miracle to make things happen.
    Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
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    Prink34320Prink34320 Posts: 5,078 Member
    It seems to me that whenever they include any sort of Base Game content in an Expansion feature, it is suddenly 'lazy work', 'recycling' (in a bad way) and that makes the Expansion 'light'. Sure, alright, let's ignore the rest of the content that has been announced and use a single feature we don't know everything about to 'prove' a point. In the end, if they didn't reuse preexisting content, then we'd only get addition, not expansion and an EP is meant to expand on the Base Game.

    Do I think the Festivals are light? I don't know, can't make that call yet since all I've seen is the Trailer and Blog Post.
    Live your life to the fullest, don't wait for a miracle to happen, be the miracle to make things happen.
    Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
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    Prink34320Prink34320 Posts: 5,078 Member
    Orchid13 wrote: »
    I agree, compared to ts3 the festivals seem quite boring. They should have created an elite festival , downtown festival or anything that has to do with cities

    Waving hello from a city here! I've no clue what an "elite" festival would be or what it would have to do with cities. "Elite" stuff generally doesn't happen in the public sphere at all - it's behind closed doors. No idea what a "downtown" festival would be either. Where I live, most festivals happen downtown, but they're about things like the city's ethnic mix, something artistic or athletic, a broad theme like the environment, or a particular cultural activity, not about being downtown. Some of the festivals developed for this pack seem to be dead ringers for actual city festivals - the Spice Market (which is like many, many real city festivals) and the Flea Market in particular (a park near me - which is downtown - has a huge outdoor flea market once a year, and another huge outdoor art market). The GeekCon is pretty much an outdoor version of real city festivals too (which have been increasingly spilling outside anyway).

    I found the TS3 festivals boring, personally. Maybe because they were nothing like real festivals, and didn't feel very festive to me? I didn't use them much at all. I'm looking forward to these ones more.

    I kind of agree, although I think the Fall Festival is great but the Winter Festival was a little 'meh' for me - why not just build snowmen in the backyard and I would've preferred a permanent venue for the Hockey Turf/Roller-coaster.
    Live your life to the fullest, don't wait for a miracle to happen, be the miracle to make things happen.
    Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
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