Preteens are kids. They honestly are not very different from teens and children other than appearance. Everything that a preteen could do a child or teen could do.
They differ from looks, size, height, personality, thinking, everything is different so you telling me 10- 12 look no different then a 6-8 year old? And also you telling a 10-12 year look no different than 14-16 year old?....OK
Nope. I see the children in this game as about 9, you could also push it down to 8, or up to 10/11, those are about preteen years. I can make my teens look like 14 or 15 year olds or 16 year olds, and yes, they are very different than children. But lets say the children in this game are 9, we had 13 year old young teens, and we have 16 year olds teens. How is the 13 year old very different from the 16 year old and the 9 year old very different from the 13 year old? The 13 year old looks a bit older, might have a BIT of a different personality but overall the 13 year old does about the same things the 9 year old and the 16 year old does.
I rest my case you already agreed with me and I quote "that they look a bit older and also have a bit different personality." therefore they are different especially in real life.
I did not agree with you. Preteens still have no new unique gameplay (or maybe 1 or 2 things).
@PrincessVee I do not use custom content. I just find adults too young to jump into the senior phase. But what really bugs me the most about TS4 is the gap between children and teenagers. I wish these two gaps were fulfilled.
I don't really see a big jump between adult and elder. Yeah. There is a little jump. But it's not really that noticeable.
I went into CAS to show you what I mean:
Here's mah girl "myself" as she's supposed to be, a young adult (early 20s)
One day she will become an adult (35-ish)
Then her hair will begin to grey (40-45)
Then she will get more wrinkles (50s)
Then she will turn the elder stage (early 60s)
Then she will get more wrinkles (mid 60s)
Then her hair will turn grey (70s)
Then her hair will turn white (post 70s, 80s and onward)
Probably should have changed her eyebrows too, but I forgot. Oh well... It still gets my point across.
And it's only CAS. There's also some in game aging that Adults experience. But I can't provide screenshots since I don't play with adults at the moment.
I can make my teens look 14. That is as young as I can get though, but that is pretty much as young as a teen CAN get (13 is youngest, 14 is only 1 year off..)
Natbongiovani adults could go to uni in Sims 3. But if we are adding preteens or young teens or whatever and we are creating new activities for them that are "unique" even though in rl teens and children to do them we are taking away from those life stages. Not a fair trade. We should not be taking any gameplay away from children and teens.
Could you please share some screenshots? I can't imagine Sims 4 teens looking 14.
Intel i7-6700HQ; nvidia gtx970m 3 gb; 1tb HHD and 256gb SSD; my drivers are always up to date.
@FloppyFish And so we went into that old argument: what do young adults do that adults can not do? The issue is only temporal and involves human aging. I have already said and I say again: no one leaves the childhood already reaching the height that will have for the rest of the life.
@natbongiovani , you are correct, this is an old argument, that seems to keep going around and around in circles.
I have to disagree with you about childhood and height.
I am 5'6"/168cm, so I am not super tall but I am not short either. I have 2 sons, both of which were taller than me by the time they turned 13 years old.
My oldest son was 5'9"/175cm and reached his full height of 5'11/180cm, I am going to guess at around 19 to 20 years of age. My youngest son was 5'11"/180cm at 13, his 25th birthday was the 10th of this month and we measured his height just for the fun of it (something we did every year on their birthdays when they were kids) Anyway, it turns out that he is the tallest of the family coming in at 6" even 183cm.
So even if children continue to grow until they reach young adulthood, quite a few of them start their teen years just as tall or taller than their parents.
I can only speak for myself but I personally don't see any reason to add pre teens or make the teens already in the game shorter.
"If you could read my mind, I'm pretty sure you'd be traumatized for life"
Also senior is not the same thing as elder.
Senior is when you're allowed to retire.
Elder is when you're old.
You can become elder before you become senior.
That's interesting. The past 4 or 5 pages of this thread have widely been about how we should not focus on what the definition of a preteen is, or what it means to be a preteen because these things "shouldn't matter". But when an argument is made for another life stage, suddenly these things are important and can be used as reasons why those life stages work fine..
Adults work by the same rules as elders. It's all about the way you dress them.
Give them jet black hair and they look younger. Give them salt and pepper hair and they will look older. Add more wrinkles from the skindetail panel and white hair and they will pass for elders.
Sadly, same thing can't be said about teenagers. No matter how you dress them, there's no way to make them look younger then 16.
Also interesting, because although you say the same thing can't be said about teenagers, it has been said in regards to them several times as an argument against preteens. And I don't follow the logic there because it's a lot easier to dress a teen to look a couple years younger than it is to dress an elder with an insane hunchback to look like a 55 or 60 year old. But I guess these are only arguments that matter when they're not in the context of teenagers and preteens. They're just invalid when they are, apparently.
I'm not in favor of either lifestage, by the way. I simply am using the gap between adults and elders to explain that this preteen request has nothing to do with some gap, because larger gaps already exist. Let's be honest and say it's about family players wanting more content for themselves. Which I have nothing against. But this use of some gap that needs to be filled as justification for this request is ridiculous, though.
Look at my previous post with screens. I wasn't talking about dressing elders to look 50. I was talking about dressing adults to look 50.
Intel i7-6700HQ; nvidia gtx970m 3 gb; 1tb HHD and 256gb SSD; my drivers are always up to date.
Let's be honest and say it's about family players wanting more content for themselves. Which I have nothing against. But this use of some gap that needs to be filled as justification for this request is ridiculous, though.
Very much agreed with this right here. I've never seen so many arguments flipped and turned around to best suit their user than I have in this thread, on both sides.
And honestly, this thread should be closed. Nothing constructive is happening here.
Look at my previous post with screens. I wasn't talking about dressing elders to look 50. I was talking about dressing adults to look 50.
You can dress adults to look 50, sure. I still don't see anything in the 50-70 range. The face and hair is one thing, but with the way elder bodies look and the way they behave in game, they do not feel anywhere in that age range to me.
@PrincessVee You actually managed to give mild aging to Sim. But you had to make modifications to the CAS. This bothers me. Currently my main family has 113 members, spread across Newcrest and Willow Creek. Imagine if every time I needed to open CAS to change my Sims' characteristics? @lilonesub Maybe your experience is this, but it has not happened in my family, for example, as it does not happen in several others. Anyway, for a game it would be interesting to create these visual differences.
Look at my previous post with screens. I wasn't talking about dressing elders to look 50. I was talking about dressing adults to look 50.
You can dress adults to look 50, sure. I still don't see anything in the 50-70 range. The face and hair is one thing, but with the way elder bodies look and the way they behave in game, they do not feel anywhere in that age range to me.
elders are 60+
Intel i7-6700HQ; nvidia gtx970m 3 gb; 1tb HHD and 256gb SSD; my drivers are always up to date.
@PrincessVee I do not use custom content. I just find adults too young to jump into the senior phase. But what really bugs me the most about TS4 is the gap between children and teenagers. I wish these two gaps were fulfilled.
I don't really see a big jump between adult and elder. Yeah. There is a little jump. But it's not really that noticeable.
I went into CAS to show you what I mean:
Here's mah girl "myself" as she's supposed to be, a young adult (early 20s)
One day she will become an adult (35-ish)
Then her hair will begin to grey (40-45)
Then she will get more wrinkles (50s)
Then she will turn the elder stage (early 60s)
Then she will get more wrinkles (mid 60s)
Then her hair will turn grey (70s)
Then her hair will turn white (post 70s, 80s and onward)
Probably should have changed her eyebrows too, but I forgot. Oh well... It still gets my point across.
And it's only CAS. There's also some in game aging that Adults experience. But I can't provide screenshots since I don't play with adults at the moment.
Wow! So smooth!!
She is really pretty,
I wouldn't change the eyebrows, a lot of women color their eyebrows in darker, even if they have gray hair, it frames the face for a nice look.
"If you could read my mind, I'm pretty sure you'd be traumatized for life"
Look at my previous post with screens. I wasn't talking about dressing elders to look 50. I was talking about dressing adults to look 50.
You can dress adults to look 50, sure. I still don't see anything in the 50-70 range. The face and hair is one thing, but with the way elder bodies look and the way they behave in game, they do not feel anywhere in that age range to me.
elders are 60+
they don't look 60 to me is the actual point I was getting across.
The same way that teens don't look like teens to you folks. Neither issue is solved with that, is it.
Look at my previous post with screens. I wasn't talking about dressing elders to look 50. I was talking about dressing adults to look 50.
You can dress adults to look 50, sure. I still don't see anything in the 50-70 range. The face and hair is one thing, but with the way elder bodies look and the way they behave in game, they do not feel anywhere in that age range to me.
How old is this sim in every picture?
Intel i7-6700HQ; nvidia gtx970m 3 gb; 1tb HHD and 256gb SSD; my drivers are always up to date.
Preteens are kids. They honestly are not very different from teens and children other than appearance. Everything that a preteen could do a child or teen could do.
They differ from looks, size, height, personality, thinking, everything is different so you telling me 10- 12 look no different then a 6-8 year old? And also you telling a 10-12 year look no different than 14-16 year old?....OK
Nope. I see the children in this game as about 9, you could also push it down to 8, or up to 10/11, those are about preteen years. I can make my teens look like 14 or 15 year olds or 16 year olds, and yes, they are very different than children. But lets say the children in this game are 9, we had 13 year old young teens, and we have 16 year olds teens. How is the 13 year old very different from the 16 year old and the 9 year old very different from the 13 year old? The 13 year old looks a bit older, might have a BIT of a different personality but overall the 13 year old does about the same things the 9 year old and the 16 year old does.
I rest my case you already agreed with me and I quote "that they look a bit older and also have a bit different personality." therefore they are different especially in real life.
I did not agree with you. Preteens still have no new unique gameplay (or maybe 1 or 2 things).
Neither does YA and A but we still got YA. Also we don't have Pre-teens so how will you know if they wouldn't?
I'm with the middle aged train as well going back in forth in cas I think is to much work for me personally just to change them from looking from one age to another.
That's my point. The gap between Adults and Elders is not as big as the gap between teens and kids.
This is the gap between teens and kids.
Teen. As young as I could make her look.
Child. As old as I could make her look.
Even if I make the oldest looking child possible, and the youngest looking teen possible, the gap is still there.
Kids don't double up in height overnight. Not even during the most rapid growth spur.
P.S. My face when someone says elders are too old in the game.
Intel i7-6700HQ; nvidia gtx970m 3 gb; 1tb HHD and 256gb SSD; my drivers are always up to date.
And to be honest, how old can kids be with this body proportion?
7-8? 10 tops?
These are prepubescent children since breasts is the first thing that starts to develop when girls enter puberty.
Around age 15-16 girls have already completed their puberty, on average.
So Sims 4 is missing this crucial period of human development when caterpillars turn into butterflies.
Intel i7-6700HQ; nvidia gtx970m 3 gb; 1tb HHD and 256gb SSD; my drivers are always up to date.
I am so sick of hearing of "things they can only do" sure unique activities would be great for preteens but a large part of a preteen is being between child and a teen they are growing older no longer little kids maturing but still not a teen. Preteens are looking for more independence unlike children and something this game has fully given the adult-teens (they can move out) so that would be unique to them.
I would love to see preteen parties with things like spin the bottle where they could possibly have their first kiss or chicken out and become embarrassed in front of their peers. plum stunts and peer pressure, crushes where they obsess over someone, love for a picture of a sim or celeb if they are ever added to the game picked by player to appear over their head. Slumber parties with horrible preteen music doing friends makeup or game night for the preteen boys where there's an option to sneak to fridge for snacks late at night or prank a younger sibling. I'd also like to see hobbies added for preteens that can only be started at their age such as karate or ballet and can be carried on at older ages or cheated if you must.
Aren't those baisically just some things teens do and some things children can do? Why should this be unique to pre-teens only?
I have asked you billions of times, but you always just act like you never saw my post: Give me some preteen ideas, with plenty of stuff for them to do that CHILDREN AND TEENAGERS DON'T DO. Everything you listed could be added to teenagers and children. It is not enough to add a new life stage.
It's funny you say that as if no one ever posts ideas that are supposed to be unique to tweenagers.
The position you put people in is actually impossible to defend, as it goes something like this:
"Prove to me tweenagers are worth it by posting some ideas for features that are unique to their life stage" (which, by the way, is a ridiculous thing to push on people as some kind of litmus test for the validity of a life stage proposal, as most posters are just sharing their passion/ideas for the game, and are not professional game designers... in other words, it is not the responsibility of players to prove the worth of an idea just because they want it).
Anyway, step two.
Someone proceeds to post ideas for a tweenage life stage in response to said request.
Invariably, the dismissal goes something like this: "Those aren't real tweenage features," or "that's gross and disgusting for a tweenage sim to be able to do" (implying that the poster is a sick individual), or "those are features that could be given to child or teen sims" (a position that is really easy to claim, without going into much of an explanation as to why).
Round and round it goes for what reason, I don't know. Tweenagers either will be added in the sims 4 at some point or they won't be. Some sort of proving-grounds litmus-test gatekeeper attitude on the forums is not going to be the determining factor. So I'm not sure what the point of this "prove to me, prove to me" repetitive thing is supposed to accomplish.
It's one thing to debate or discuss ideas. It's another thing to put unrealistic pressure on posters to prove something that they have no obligation to prove and then just repeatedly tell them "you're wrong" when they try to prove their point.
As someone who *does* have some knowledge of game design (I studied it in college, discussed it on and off for years, and have been doing some pretty intense modding this year for TS4) I think the key is, as that saying goes, "The devil is in the details." And by that I don't just mean that features are more complicated than they first look; I also mean that some rough overview of a feature idea is not necessarily going to accurately capture final gameplay of a finished product. So when we are sharing gameplay ideas, without intimate knowledge of the code and painstakingly taking those details into account, most of what we're giving are rough approximations for what we'd like to see, compared to the actual reality.
Which is a reason why hardcore "prove it" debate about a feature idea is generally pointless, as the actual design reality probably wouldn't look much like the idea when it's finished anyway. Imagining an idea and experiencing it are two different things. It's easy to dismiss or embrace something, in theory, only to find that your position changes when you experience it firsthand. This was a common theme with the toddler discussions and some (including myself) have readily admitted that when they actually got toddlers, what they got blew away expectations and turned out to be something they really enjoyed having, despite not expecting to.
This is not to say that if a tweenage stage was added, it would be as readily like as toddlers. There's no guarantee of such a thing. The point is just that imagination and experiencing are two different kinds of perception.
Now how about we drop the intensity a notch and remember that it's just a discussion of game ideas.
Because no one does? Nearly all of these "preteen" ideas could be added to children and teenagers easily.
I disagree. E.g. Spin the bottle and first kisses. I'm sorry but current teenagers look way too old to be doing those things. And I can't even imagine the uproar if they included a spin the bottle activity for children.
There are many activities current children are too young to be doing and teenagers feel too old to do.
If the teenagers look way too old they should just change the teenagers. Because it's true, they look too old because they look just like young adults.
I'd definitely be okay with that too! I just think preteens are needed now (whereas there was no need for them in previous games) because teens look way too old.
since apparently you aren't reading and this is just going in the same circle over and over again, I'll just quote myself from earlier as well.
The face and hair is one thing, but with the way elder bodies look and the way they behave in game, they do not feel anywhere in that age range to me.
Since apparently you don't want to read/listen/think/be creative...
You know you can manipulate sims body in CAS as well as facial features?
You know you can straighten their backs and give them a different more youthful walk style?
She doesn't look more than 60. (and elders are 60 +)
And here is her as an adult (she looks 50-ish)
My point was not that you can make elders look 50. (You can't. They're 60+)
My point is that you can already make adults look middle-aged, so there's no point for a middle aged life stage since adults are middle aged.
PS: learn to read.
Intel i7-6700HQ; nvidia gtx970m 3 gb; 1tb HHD and 256gb SSD; my drivers are always up to date.
The issue here is that you can fill the gap between adults and elders with make up, the right clothes, wrinkles, age appropriate hairstyles and clothes etc. But there is no way to do that with the gap between children and teens. No matter how "teenish" you dress your sim children they still look like children. And no matter how young you dress your teens they still look 16 at least.
Comments
I did not agree with you. Preteens still have no new unique gameplay (or maybe 1 or 2 things).
Wow! So smooth!!
Could you please share some screenshots? I can't imagine Sims 4 teens looking 14.
@natbongiovani , you are correct, this is an old argument, that seems to keep going around and around in circles.
I have to disagree with you about childhood and height.
I am 5'6"/168cm, so I am not super tall but I am not short either. I have 2 sons, both of which were taller than me by the time they turned 13 years old.
My oldest son was 5'9"/175cm and reached his full height of 5'11/180cm, I am going to guess at around 19 to 20 years of age. My youngest son was 5'11"/180cm at 13, his 25th birthday was the 10th of this month and we measured his height just for the fun of it (something we did every year on their birthdays when they were kids) Anyway, it turns out that he is the tallest of the family coming in at 6" even 183cm.
So even if children continue to grow until they reach young adulthood, quite a few of them start their teen years just as tall or taller than their parents.
I can only speak for myself but I personally don't see any reason to add pre teens or make the teens already in the game shorter.
Join us on Discord for help with MC Command Center @ Discord https://discord.gg/TKp3GqE
The latest version of MCCC 3.9.6 go to https://www.patreon.com/posts/mc-command-3-9-6-15332977
Look at my previous post with screens. I wasn't talking about dressing elders to look 50. I was talking about dressing adults to look 50.
Very much agreed with this right here. I've never seen so many arguments flipped and turned around to best suit their user than I have in this thread, on both sides.
And honestly, this thread should be closed. Nothing constructive is happening here.
You can dress adults to look 50, sure. I still don't see anything in the 50-70 range. The face and hair is one thing, but with the way elder bodies look and the way they behave in game, they do not feel anywhere in that age range to me.
@lilonesub Maybe your experience is this, but it has not happened in my family, for example, as it does not happen in several others. Anyway, for a game it would be interesting to create these visual differences.
elders are 60+
She is really pretty,
I wouldn't change the eyebrows, a lot of women color their eyebrows in darker, even if they have gray hair, it frames the face for a nice look.
Join us on Discord for help with MC Command Center @ Discord https://discord.gg/TKp3GqE
The latest version of MCCC 3.9.6 go to https://www.patreon.com/posts/mc-command-3-9-6-15332977
they don't look 60 to me is the actual point I was getting across.
The same way that teens don't look like teens to you folks. Neither issue is solved with that, is it.
How old is this sim in every picture?
Neither does YA and A but we still got YA. Also we don't have Pre-teens so how will you know if they wouldn't?
1st: 50s
2nd: 60s
3rd: 75/80
4th: 80s/90s
That's my point. The gap between Adults and Elders is not as big as the gap between teens and kids.
This is the gap between teens and kids.
Teen. As young as I could make her look.
Child. As old as I could make her look.
Even if I make the oldest looking child possible, and the youngest looking teen possible, the gap is still there.
Kids don't double up in height overnight. Not even during the most rapid growth spur.
P.S. My face when someone says elders are too old in the game.
ikr? Like change hair color, add some wrinkles and you're done.
since apparently you aren't reading and this is just going in the same circle over and over again, I'll just quote myself from earlier as well.
7-8? 10 tops?
These are prepubescent children since breasts is the first thing that starts to develop when girls enter puberty.
Around age 15-16 girls have already completed their puberty, on average.
So Sims 4 is missing this crucial period of human development when caterpillars turn into butterflies.
I'd definitely be okay with that too! I just think preteens are needed now (whereas there was no need for them in previous games) because teens look way too old.
Since apparently you don't want to read/listen/think/be creative...
You know you can manipulate sims body in CAS as well as facial features?
You know you can straighten their backs and give them a different more youthful walk style?
She doesn't look more than 60. (and elders are 60 +)
And here is her as an adult (she looks 50-ish)
My point was not that you can make elders look 50. (You can't. They're 60+)
My point is that you can already make adults look middle-aged, so there's no point for a middle aged life stage since adults are middle aged.
PS: learn to read.