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Speculation. Why We Can't Have An Attraction System
Cinebar
Posts: 33,618 Member
I have an idea of why this can't include traits. For instance any Sim can gain charisma by telling a joke, or gaining a skill or some skill points just by talking in some manner. Though they could make a chemistry system based on traits or skills or emotions, (at least one included along with other things) it would be hard to keep one Sim from liking another if every Sim is gaining skills just by talking or cooking or whatever. It always bugged me when TS4 Sims would gain a skill by doing nothing, as soon as you added them to the game, bam! they had gained something just by telling a joke or whatever, and would auto do a mean interaction etc. If they built an attraction system on traits, most Sims would be attracted to most Sims.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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Comments
Playing Pleasentview in Sims 2 i also encountered the same problems, Don and Daniel where attracted to each other as both where assigned attracted to facial hair. In Sims 2 you could fix it when you rotated around but not every one does that in 3 or 4.
This is something i would love in base game but introduced afterwards, has very mixed results. In 4 all Sims are bisexual which means every other Sim besides the spouse, would be more attractive.
If they where introducing Sims 2, 1 sided attraction, for skills I could sort of live with it, but would still prefer not. If it would be the 2 sided attraction of Sims 3 where my skilled Sims found every lazy, slob attractive, never seriously no.
And totally agree with your point @Plainevil. If they're planning to have this back, it shouldn't mess up with the existing relationships that players had. Perhaps, it should be added by prompting us to edit the existing played family like what they did with the season, where we need to set the seasons for each save game that we have. Players should be able to override the pre-made households (played) attraction system too. Whilst, for the unplayed household/NPC, it should be updated as what they intended it to be.
- Long hair, short hair or medium hair
- Color of hair
- Male/Female
- Facial hair
- Perfume/Cologne which could be added with the attraction system
- Walk styles (some might like the masculine walk some might like default or you might have a freaky Sim who loves the goofy walk)
- Skin tone
- Tattoos
- Glasses
- Hats
- Makeup or no makeup
- Attracted to Sims, Vampire or Alien
- Attracted to fit or fat Sims.
- Now that clothing is separated Sims could be attracted to Sims wearing just about anything be it a dress, tank top, jacket or a suit as long as that clothing item is in that category.
You are making me want an attraction system.
Also maybe add income level and or employment or lack there of (hopefully taking into account the new self employment titles we can make).
I could look up the club system but anything in there that helps you select who could be in the club could be added in.
I kind of hope we get something like this one day in a romance kind of pack ...or maybe as the freebie that comes with it.
Eyes can't be changed so that one might be a good choice. (The game won't change the eye color) but moods could overlap traits such as confident buff, so anyone walking around feeling confident would have that walk, even if temporarily, then the romance would be over as soon as that moodlet disappeared.
They would have to come up with something more than traits because buffs overlap with those, and I don't think they would ever include skin color, and it would be wild if it was based on clothes since the townies pick some doozies. But sure, people are attracted to clothes such as uniforms and are attracted to people who wear or don't wear makeup. Things like good cook might make Sims attracted to anyone since these Sims gain too many cooking skills and too fast. So, not sure they should use skills as a choice, either. By the time a Sim has mastered their career (some of them) they have a boat load of skills so everyone in town would be attracted to them one way or another.
So, I doubt we see an attraction system and the crystals and mood decor is probably all we see and some in this thread are right, after four years and families and couples already established I doubt they try it. But they can prove me wrong if they want to release it.
Compatible
Creative/Music Lover
Creative/Art Lover
Geek/Genius
Genius/Bookworm
Self Assured/Outgoing
Outgoing/Insider [GT]
Evil/Mean
Evil/Kleptomaniac
Goofball/Cheeful
Goofball/Childish
Neat/Squeamish [OR]
Slob/Lazy
Snob/Materialistic
Outgoing/Dance Machine [GT]
Ambitious/Perfectionist
Genius/Perfectionist
Active/Loves Outdoors
Snob/Self Absorbed [GF]
Incompatible
Active/Lazy
Cheerful/Hot-headed/Gloomy
Goofball/Snob
Flirty/Unflirty [CL]
Foodie/Glutton
Ambitious/Lazy
Childish/Snob
Childish/Evil
Childish/Hates Children
Evil/Good
Good/Mean
Good/Kleptomaniac
Lazy/Neat
Loves Outdoors/Squeamish [OR]
Squeamish [OR]/Slob
Squeamish [OR]/Glutton
Slob/Neat
Family Oriented/Hates Children
Family Oriented/Non-Commital
Loner/Insider [GT]
Loner/Outgoing
After traits I would go hair color and eye color. I also feel like an attraction system would be a great chance for them to introduce likes/dislikes but just simple things like radio stations, TV channels, and color since most items in CAS/BB have a color tag. This would also make it so that a sim will be happier when watching, listening, or wearing something they like and upset when the opposite is done.
Being attracted to certain attributes about someone doesn't guarantee there'll be chemistry between the two people. So an attraction system could work where you pick what your sim finds idea in a romantic partner (hair color, eye color, fitness, job status, wealth, occult...) or what they are repused by in another sim (smelly Sims, unemployed/employed...). This should cause there to be different levels of attraction; say you pick three attributes a sim finds attractive in another sim and three attributes they dislike in another sim that when added up would ultimately determine how attractive they find another sim.
A chemistry system would have more to do with how compatible two sims are with each other (things like trait and zodiac compatibility, and skills/hobbies). That way a sim can be attracted to another sim but not compatible with them because of their traits or zodiac sign.... Likewise a sim could not be attracted at all or even repused by another sim but get along great as friends. You could have true soulmates (both sims are attracted to one another and are completely compatible). Or two sims could have opposite traits but compatible zodiacs, creating the "odd couple" dynamic. It'll allow for more unique relationships dynamics to form more naturally in game!
Also unrequited love/crushes! 😍
SimA is 100% attracted to SimB and they have great chemistry, the only problem is that SimB is not attracted to any attributes of SimA. They are friends but only SimA wants to be more. 😭
I mean, we already have the relationship lables and a romance and friendship bar, all that's left are the tools for us to control and customize it per sim.
Did I mention it should be completely up to the player whether or not their sims have a preference? As in you, the player, can choose to completely opt-out on choosing what a sim is or isn't attracted to, or only select one or two options on one or both categories. Because it's really important to have options.
Attraction system determines how much a sims is romantically interested in another sim. (Sims are more likely to accept flirtations the more attracted they are to another sim.)
Chemistry system determines how compatible two sims are for a relationship/friendship. (The more chemistry the faster the friendship bar increases and the slower it depletes.)
Basically the Sims 2 turn on/turn off and chemistry system mixed with the Sims 3 attraction system.
Also only teen-elder should have an attraction preference but chemistry should affect all sims.
Obviously there isn’t an overt one you can manipulate, which I would love, but I do find that sometimes if I have a sim who I want to get together with another sim, it’s hard. I mean you can force it but, for instance, I recently moved my sim into San Myshuno and downloaded a bunch of townies to fill her building with, and when I just let interactions play out, she hated one girl I thought would be a good friend for her.
But perhaps that is all in my head, I don’t know. There are some great ideas here when it comes to implementing this system. One of my favourite things in Sims 2 was taking my sim out to a dance club or bar and having them “scope the room”
SimmerJay CAS Challenge! ✨
This means that directing the conversation has varying results (positive or negative) whereas letting them interact autonomously defaults to inoffensive chit-chat unless one or both sims are in a bad mood, flirty mood, angry mood etc.
There are mods available that remove this generic chat and make conversations more meaningful and interesting, allowing sims personalities to mesh or conflict more.
There definitely is some system. I've had sims I want together not work at all and always get negative reactions out of the blue and constantly try to flirt with other sims.
Right now my sim couple are fairly loyal autonomously and even choose to try for baby when I'm not directing them.
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I'm a bit confused as to why traits would conflict with buffs in an attraction system. Why does it matter how the Sim is feeling emotionally? If a Sim is attracted to say, a Goofball, and that Goofball is feeling Confident/Flirty/Angry etc., why would that emotion matter at all (when it comes to attraction) to the other Sim? The attraction system wouldn't be looking for emotions, it would be looking for traits, which never change.
Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you said.
Also I think an attraction system would add more than just another quick way to get Flirty. It would essentially add more uniqueness to your Sims, especially if they added likes/dislikes for food and colors and such.
An attraction system/personality update is big on the wishlist for me.
Duplicates. Some traits make Sims have certain emotions like feeling confident, right? Then any Sim who had been around decor or whatever they had done to get the confident buff would also recieve the attraction of the other person in the household or out on the street until it disappeared. If you haven't noticed Traits, Skills and Emotions all share the same whims, and often share the same buffs, and are redundant. Romantic Sim feels romantic, but anyone around any romantic aura would also be attracted to your Romantic Sim, there would be lots of ups and downs of the attraction factor and cause the player whiplash.
Example: A Sim needs to get focused for the job, but any Sim gets focused around the crystal to help your Sim get focused for his/her job...so the other Sim would be attracted to someone who was trying to gain a skill or get a promotion, but it would be fleeting and be more trouble than it would be worth for the player. Redundant.
Exactly. I'm pretty sure the coding for the attraction system would zero in on the Sim's traits, not buffs or emotions. I'm not sure why emotional buffs would have anything to do with attraction.
The thing is, chemistry as it works in The Sims 2 and 3 does not make sense, that's not how it works in real life, you don't say "hi" to someone and then instantly know if that person is the love of your life. Also people have bad moments, in real life a Goofball could have Angry moments, it doesn't make sense that having a Goofball trait levies in Chemistry if the other Sim never sees the person actually behaving as a Goofball.
The Sims 4 is more about behaviour being defined not just by innate qualities but also by the moment, I like how Sims that otherwise could work together could just meet at the wrong place at the wrong time and because of bad moods they end up hating each other instead.
Now The Sims 2's Attraction though is a different deal, unlike Chemistry it would be for romance only and could represent, well, superficial attraction, so it would be tied to appearance, turn ons and turn offs (job, muscle/fat, clothes, etc), and maybe like The Sims 3 a random zoodiac sign to add some volatility to it. And BTW, Attraction is not a static thing since things that factor in it can change, like being turned on by muscled Sims and then that Sim becomes fat over time, could make for some very interesting situations like a couple slowly losing the "spark" over time.
Because they do now. Any Sim can be attracted to any Sim if there is a romance buff object around.
I think this has everything to do with the mod and not any chemistry system that you think is present in the game. Some traits alter how often flirting and romantic behavior occurs, but beyond that there is no real system at play.
I utilize the one by PolarBearSims on MTS, it also removes the Idle Chat interaction that @EmmaVane mentioned.
I've had even directed friendly interactions fail lately on some Sims, try to fulfill the Friend of the World Aspiration, maybe you'll notice it too. Maybe there's no system though, maybe interactions just fail randomly, but friendly interactions do fail sometimes.
I also have this mod but when I first played sims 4 I tested how bad the systems were and even though nobody cared that my sim cheated in front of their eyes, my sim couldn't get certain sims to like him. I remember summer holiday didn't have any interest him and most of the interactions would fail.
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Thank you @MDianaSanders for halloween-fying Golluma
So I'm guessing what you mean is that an attraction system would be pointless, not that an attraction system wouldn't actually work? Since once a Sim is in a Flirty mood, he/she is more likely to have successful flirty interactions with another Sim, especially if that Sim is also Flirty. If an attraction system only focused on the romantic aspect, then I guess it would indeed be pointless. But I think most of the pro-attraction system Simmers here would like something more of a compatability system, or like Grynn mentioned, a chemistry system - where Sims just get along better and mesh well together, romantic or otherwise.