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Is a college degree worth it? An experiment (Concluded, with results)
mightysprite
Posts: 5,889 Member
While taking my main legacy save's triplets through college, I started to wonder if the gain in career levels that comes with a degree is really worth the time you invest in that degree. I mean, the gameplay in university is fun, and I'm having a good time with my triplets, who have now all met sweethearts in university too. But I kept wondering about the career advancement part. So I've started a short experiment. Meet the Hunters: Duck, Truffle and Bargain.
That's Bargain on the left, Duck in the middle and Truffle on the right.
(Incidentally, this is the prettiest random generation I've had yet; Duck was the randomly generated sim first offered when I started the new game, beauty mark and all, and the other two are the first and second roll of dice for generating siblings. I didn't even change their hair or Truffle's outfit.)
My plan is to send Truffle to a distinguished degree, Bargain to a regular degree, and Duck straight into a career. It will be computer engineer for all three so I can easily compare how their degrees help them, and computer science university degrees. They'll be primarily focused on school and career but will still do some socializing etc., so they're not just skill monkeys. I don't have any plans to get anyone honors degrees, as I haven't had a character do that yet, and I'd sort of rather test what happens without the honors condition. I've started them as teens so they can build up their skills through gameplay. Their traits are Genius and Bro, so they can learn fast and keep each other happy. Here they are working on their programming.
They live in the starter house in Britechester and they all have part-time jobs. And bunk beds. And not a lot of privacy.
High school + part-time job + starter home/cash = they run themselves into the GROUND. We are definitely using the paid vacation days from the jobs. Fun is especially hard to find. Some cool people hang out at Pepper's Pub though, and this was a fun night
Obviously we knew who was going to win.
They have identical traits but, it seems, their own personalities are beginning to emerge. Truffle likes to talk. And talk. And talk. Here she is initiating every conversation interaction while Bargain does his homework and goes "Uh-huh. Uh-huh."
Oh right, all the first Harvestfest milestones
And with Harvestfest the gardening begins!
They saved the fall and winter seed packets, sold the spring and summer packets and the gnomes, and bought a robot station and a video game system. Now they can have more fun at home, start building robotics skill, and maybe have some utilibots to help around the house.
That's Bargain on the left, Duck in the middle and Truffle on the right.
(Incidentally, this is the prettiest random generation I've had yet; Duck was the randomly generated sim first offered when I started the new game, beauty mark and all, and the other two are the first and second roll of dice for generating siblings. I didn't even change their hair or Truffle's outfit.)
My plan is to send Truffle to a distinguished degree, Bargain to a regular degree, and Duck straight into a career. It will be computer engineer for all three so I can easily compare how their degrees help them, and computer science university degrees. They'll be primarily focused on school and career but will still do some socializing etc., so they're not just skill monkeys. I don't have any plans to get anyone honors degrees, as I haven't had a character do that yet, and I'd sort of rather test what happens without the honors condition. I've started them as teens so they can build up their skills through gameplay. Their traits are Genius and Bro, so they can learn fast and keep each other happy. Here they are working on their programming.
They live in the starter house in Britechester and they all have part-time jobs. And bunk beds. And not a lot of privacy.
High school + part-time job + starter home/cash = they run themselves into the GROUND. We are definitely using the paid vacation days from the jobs. Fun is especially hard to find. Some cool people hang out at Pepper's Pub though, and this was a fun night
Obviously we knew who was going to win.
They have identical traits but, it seems, their own personalities are beginning to emerge. Truffle likes to talk. And talk. And talk. Here she is initiating every conversation interaction while Bargain does his homework and goes "Uh-huh. Uh-huh."
Oh right, all the first Harvestfest milestones
And with Harvestfest the gardening begins!
They saved the fall and winter seed packets, sold the spring and summer packets and the gnomes, and bought a robot station and a video game system. Now they can have more fun at home, start building robotics skill, and maybe have some utilibots to help around the house.
Post edited by mightysprite on
5
Comments
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/969562/discover-university-experiment-s/p1
But of course I do not want to take away the fun of discovering this on your own. I'm interested to see if you will achieve a different result with your own experiment.
I've put the concluding remarks of that user's experiment under the spoiler, in case you did want to know their results.
*:.｡."It's great being ((Queen Bee))!".｡.:*
★・・・・・・★・・・・・・★・・・・・・★
✧ :-"As long as I continue to believe then one day my ((dreams)) really will come true."✧ :-
I feel I am playing the game mainly for the experience than how a degree would benefit my sim.
Sadly other reasons for going to Uni, like character growth, new loves and friendships, and student activities feel a bit shallow or none existent.
It really bothers me that I hardly ever have the same dormies with my sims through multiple semesters. Some of the coolest sims move out and I have to create clubs to have access to them.
A lot of character growth for a sim does happen with Parenthood, but it still would have been nice to be able to earn an extra trait slot or two.
@drakharis It sounds like your students did not "Take Notes" during classes? That was a useful thing I learned on this forum. I've discovered that arriving to class on time and taking notes while there seems to be much more important than doing homework, in terms of determining the grade. Without fail the classes my students arrive late to, or forget to Take Notes, they get lower grades. If they arrive late or forget to Take Notes for more than one class meeting, it's hard to pass the class without doing make-up studying.
@CK213 I think living on campus helps a lot with developing new loves and friendships, just because you bump into so many people. The on-campus structured activities (like soccer team) and the unstructured stuff you can do (hanging out at commons) are both fun. And assuming you've actually met your dormies, you can call them or invite them over just like with any other sims you know!
It's 8 a.m. on New Year's Day and Truffle just enrolled in her Distinguished Degree at Foxbury before going to bed. Raise a glass!
The garden is now bearing, so everyone promptly quit their jobs. Life improved immediately.
Bargain worked on his robotics skill and Truffle overclocked all the computers.
When the winter harvest started coming in, we splurged on making the home more homey
At the end of winter, everyone became young adults.
Truffle was accepted to her distinguished degree, according to plan. She and Bargain are enrolled in rival universities! I think they'll make it work.
Duck got a job.
She accepted the work-from-home assignment: crashing an engineering course. She was getting sick. So she changed into her nicest clothes, as you do, and wore her nasty rash to the engineering course.
Bargain and Truffle came along for moral support.
While there, Truffle bought some Foxbury gear.
And they enjoyed Spirit Day.
Duck's engineering course miraculously healed her!
They bought a bar to celebrate, and threw a great New Year's Eve party.
It begins...
Yeah, it's pretty much one of the top reasons why I send my sims. I really enjoy making over the dormies and having my sims interact with them. And in a couple of cases it was quite entertaining seeing the dormies interact with each other. One of my most enjoyable Uni experiences was when a love triangle formed and ended in a way I did not expect.
But Zane took it upon himself to bring it out in the open.
One day I was playing Yuki at the student commons and Magnus walked in sat right in front of her.
From their interactions, I decide Yuki had taken an interest in Magnus.
Which she followed up after Uni, and broke that triangle.
The first of my group of sims that will be married.
The dormies have a major role to play in my game because new friends and loves will be generated from this pool of sims.
Some will probably take the place of default townies living in the worlds and may even be added to my group of playable sims.
I wish they had made it so you need a certain degree to get into a career. For example, a medical degree should be required to get to level 3 of the Doctor Career. Or, a Business degree should be required to get past level 3 in the Business Career.
That's how it is in the real world. No degree, no high paying job!
Are there any mods that add this feature?
As it is at present, while I enjoy university, it's not really worth the money.
@Sharonia @bixters My hunch is that you guys are right...
Edit: I also recently installed some mods to make uni cost more and progression without a degree more difficult.
On Monday of spring, Duck started her career as an Apprentice of Algorithms. She earns S38/hour for 9 hours 5 days a week. She has the techie lifestyle, which creates a big boost to performance, it turns out. Her performance is always excellent.
Getting her to robotics level 3 was a pretty big hurdle at first though. It took a couple of days to do that. On Wednesday she was promoted to Cog in the Machine. $49/hour, 9 hours 5 days a week.
Yeah!
Duck mainly built her robotics skill by reading the skill book. Duck may be the smartest one of the bunch.
Truffle got all excited at the utili-bot contest
and met a real live servo! (also a blond guy named Hiroto)
And then she came home and… well, she puts the “cute” in “electrocute”
Maybe I’ll go work on my term paper instead
The instant she touched the computer, it broke. Go to bed, girl! Brother took over the computer situation.
Truffle might not be cut out for robotics.
She and Bargain both got their presentations to Excellent quality and gave them on the first day of the term, so that’s out of the way. Term papers are next. They’re hard at work, but still socializing
Angela keeps coming over and calling Bargain. It’s always Bargain that she calls. He’s started to be a little more open to connecting with her. They had a sort of intimate dinner
And then she didn’t go home. Even after being sent home. She spent the night watching TV and cleaning the grill repeatedly.
Awkward hellos with sister in the morning
I thought she would at least go home to sleep but I guess not. What is she avoiding at home?
While asleep on the couch, she called Bargain to invite him on a date (?)
Sure! Yes, okay! Will this get you off my couch?
They went on their date but a lot of the conversation turned out awkward. Angela left embarrassed.
And then she came over and was randomly angry at Bargain. Maybe he doesn’t need this?
They went to the humor and hijinks festival. Truffle flirted with Hiroto a little more. She told an unusually powerful flirtatious joke in a group conversation and suddenly Mortimer Goth noticed her in a big way… hmmm
They helped the Pranksters win at the festival. They collected their prize money, sold the voodoo dolls and fireworks, and that combined with the garden income (yes Duck, your 3 days of paychecks helped a little bit) paid for a nice renovation to the house. They now have a dining room, a downstairs half bath, 3 bedrooms, and a couple of other amenities.
I love that part of Britechester too.
My Prep School is located there, as well as my Britechester and Foxbury student stores.
Great place for a bike ride.
Political murals + randomly bursting into song + a little flirting = a good college experience. Even if this one isn’t actually in college.
Truffle is getting handier. I learned that her lack of handiness was probably to blame for her frequent electrocutions.
Please don’t hurt yourself, sis…
Duck got promoted again. Engineering Technician. S82/hour, 8 hours 4 days a week. She rules at work. Cross her at your peril.
Bargain finally made it to Britechester campus! And acquired a shirt.
The three single and lovin’ it, close-knit, techie siblings all hate Love Day. They started the day by grousing about Love Day to each other over their coffee. Angela called Bargain for a date, he put her off, she came over instead.
I really think we should just be friends.
Happy love day? Uh, sorry, my timing stinks…
No problem, yes, I agree! Happy love day and everything
Five minutes later
Angela, maybe we should see less of each other in general?
That evening they went to the spice festival. There was a cute guitarist playing.
Truffle and Kiyoshi got talking. “Don’t you hate Love Day?” she asked. “I hate Love Day so much! It’s annoying!”
“Uh, yes, of course I hate Love Day too…”
Truffle listened to Kiyoshi’s next set intently. Meanwhile, the curry hurts Bargain’s face.
Mortimer isn’t having such a great Love Day either.
The next night Bargain and Duck went out dancing with Miko and Truffle’s servo friend Zeus. (Truffle was at home sleeping off a cold.) Servos are funny dancers.
They dropped in on Yuki afterward since she lived in the neighborhood.
Yuki went on about her love of music.
Bargain claimed to love music too. Which wasn’t exactly a lie. He did also perhaps claim to love playing the guitar. Which was only a lie if you considered that he didn’t have a guitar (yet) or have ever played it before (yet). Here he is retroactively trying to make that true…
They compared notes over coffee the next morning.
And then Miko invited Duck out to the flea market. They didn’t really participate much in the flea market.
“OK, now I need to learn to sing right away, can you help me?”
End of term 1! Grades are in! Not sure what happened with that B minus there, Bargain… otherwise they did great.
They threw a fun and awkward party for the end of term.
And maybe they’ve found some love interests after all.
Truffle- computer science distinguished degree
Bargain- computer science regular degree
Duck- no degree, computer engineer career
Duck is clearly ahead in handiness and robotics. The college students are clearly ahead in programming and mischief. Interesting that mischief is such a big part of the computer science degree. When freelance programmers try to hack stuff, is the mischief skill part of determining whether they succeed?
Also interesting that the distinguished degree and regular degree don't seem to be very different in workload or in skill gain.
Not a ton of screenshots this time, just some fun and funny moments
Truffle got stuck in between two couches and the wall on a date with Kiyoshi. This was right after she somehow locked herself in her bedroom even though the door showed as unlocked. I choose to believe this is exactly what a genius with somewhat limited real-life skills might do. Truffle, you just got your own room, are you sure you can be trusted with it? (I had to enter build mode and destroy her bedroom door then buy her a new one. As for the date, she merrily stood in the corner chatting with Kiyoshi until it was time to hit the M key and travel home.)
Presentations got done on the second day of the term. No papers this time, so there's just been plenty of this
And also a little of this
Followed by robotics in a swimsuit of course
I love these two together!
When your favorite drink is water with fruit slices, you're getting sick, and your sister only concentrates on her video game... at least the water with fruit slices is good
I only play one dorm (residential lot actually) through 1 term every sim year. I have too many households to send all sims to Uni, so there is quite a high cut to get access to the dorm. After a couple dukes got involved and upgraded the standards a bit, at least half the students are from nobility, making it even harder for regular sims to join. So, in my game Uni degree has been sort of limited to the top notch class, it kind of makes sense but it's become a tad more rigid than in RL. Any way, there's no way I can play more than one household through Uni, there's so much other stuff I want to focus on, too.
Someone mentioned personality growth, which is a big thing for my sims, and I think Uni is a great place to work on that, but mostly I try to focus on their personality while they are teens. Several students found their life partner at Uni, though
Skills are hardly a subject for my students as they were mostly born in game to wealthy families, meaning they are often well skilled already.
Sorry, not zerbu, but Zero (just checked). It's called Required Degree for promotions.
Awesome, I'll have to try that out. Thank you!
And I am glad people are finding good university mod help on this thread! (esp since I don't know anything about them)
We're now well into term 3. All their homework is done and they only have to take their finals. The suspense!
In the meantime, here is a classic romance festival moment. Bargain is basking in the warm happy glow of some finally successful flirtation with Yuki (in the background, at the food stand.) In the foreground is the back of Emilia Ernest, whom Bargain doesn't even notice.
But does anyone notice Don Lothario creeping around back there??
(I was kinda disappointed when nothing much happened after that)
Duck got promoted to the point where she needs to choose a career branch! She is now a Computer Constructor, the first career in the computer engineer branch. S145/hour, 9 hours 5 days a week.
Bargain takes out his school stress on the weeds.
Truffle takes out her stress on Kiyoshi in the hot tub.
Miko invited Duck over and she brought her siblings to meet Miko and the roommates. There might have been something romantic happening in Miko's room, but then everyone piled in and started talking. Roommate life.
Truffle was invited to Kiyoshi's beautiful home to meet his family. She wasn't allowed to actually use the chess table, but she sat there and made pleasant conversation. (She was allowed to finish grilling the elote after Megumi started it and then wandered off halfway through.)
Thanks to Miko and Angela, our grill at home gets cleaned more often than it gets used.
One is neat and one is handy. Teamwork!
Aww
Cleaner-bot! Hopefully now Miko and Angela can relax
Also, Alexander Goth stopped by in this game's version of his teen look. I think it's cool.
Not sure what's funnier: the doom eyes of the reaper gnome, or the fact that they're eating LAST year's poor quality Harvestfest grand breakfast.
But they had a proper (freshly cooked) Harvestfest dinner later.
See you at graduation!!
Cute storytelling in the spoiler, final results below.
Graduation and the two days before were also their adult birthdays. So we spent exactly our entire young adult life stage in university, and that's taking university as fast as possible without mods. I peeked at the calendar and learned that there are only 3 more weeks before they become elders!
Duck was invited to give a lecture on engineering to the Foxbury students. She got a kick out of that. I don't have a degree, suckers, but here I am teaching you!
Final exams all done!! This is the "all done" dance
The night after they finished finals, Kiyoshi invited them to a party at the ruins. Sure, we'll take it!
We'll dance until our sedentary self gets tired, then look for a bonfire to cozy up to.
I guess it was Kiyoshi's birthday too. Oops.
He didn't seem offended that we forgot. He made grilled cheese for everyone.
Graduation photos! Bargain, please try to look more awkward
Ok. Now the moment of truth. Let's find jobs.
Truffle enters the Computer Engineer career at level 8, Processor of Processors, earning S310/hour, 8 hours 4 days a week, with a S2,340 signing bonus. She got that job even though she didn’t have the Robotics skill level for that job. (She does need to get to level 8 for her promotion to the NEXT level, just like anyone else.) This job without a degree is normally paid S220/hour, and the promotion bonus is normally S2,200.
Bargain enters as a Computer Constructor, level 7, which is exactly the same level as Duck is now, but paid S197/hour with a S1,980 signing bonus. Duck's rate of pay without a degree is S145/hour, promotion bonus S925.
At current levels, Truffle earns S2480 per day, Bargain S1576, Duck S1305.
So it looks like the distinguished degree is worth it by a lot, and the regular degree by a nose.
Their skills ended up pretty close to one another actually, which surprised me.
But what if you take into account all the money Duck earned while the other two were in college?
By my count, Duck earned S13,063 before the others graduated.
It will take Truffle just 5 days to earn that amount at her current career level. In 12 days, her lifetime earnings will overtake Duck’s, if both stay at their current level.
It will take Bargain 8 days to earn S13,063. His lifetime earnings won’t overtake Duck’s for another 51 days, otherwise known as “never” on normal lifespan.
This could change a little bit depending on promotions. the limiting factor on all three for further promotions is Robotics skill, and Truffle has farthest to go, so it’s possible the others might catch up to her career level. Even then, though, they won’t be earning what she is earning.
(I haven’t included tuition costs in this calculation because with a little more organizing than I did, it’s pretty easy to get a full ride or close to it.)
So, if you can get a distinguished degree, it will really pay off in the long run.
If you get a regular degree, you're doing the same workload for a fraction of the benefits, and you might not ever catch up earnings-wise to where you'd be if you just entered the career track when you became a young adult.
The only reason I can think to do a regular degree is for storytelling reasons, wanting to keep a household together in the same university housing, the social benefits of meeting lots and lots of other young adults. Or if you happen to need some skill that's easier for you to build by doing university homework instead of using the actual skill object. Doing university homework seems to build the skill faster than reading the regular skill books.