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Catch 22 Problem! How would you solve this??
mw1525
Posts: 1,215 Member
**If you are unfamiliar with this saying, a catch 22 problem is one which has no easy solution. In fact, every solution presents a new problem.
(https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Catch-22)
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Toddlers Don't Forgive or Forget?
Okay, I've had Sims who have held lifetime grudges despite the 'friendly' relationship level stated by the relationship panel so, I know this is a thing. Still, I'm not understanding what I am seeing with my toddler. Here's the story:
Back in Sunset Valley, my Sim Angelo fathered a child with Jamie Jolina. They had a daughter named Maria. Jamie and Maria were townies until the day I discovered Jamie was in danger of losing her job and both she and the baby were miserable. I didn't want the social worker to take Maria, nor did I want the game to kill her so, I moved them into the household with Angelo and his wife, Arabella. **He had the baby before he met Arabella, he didn't cheat on her.
Needless-to-say, I had Angelo 'break-up' with Jamie (they were still romantic interests) so there would be no issues with his wife once she moved into their home. Jamie respected his marriage and didn't make any major moves on Angelo while she was under his roof (just the occasional compliment appearance).
Fast Forward. Jamie busted up Thornton Wolff's marriage and became partnered with him. I moved the entire family (Angelo, Arabella, Maria, Jamie & Thornton) to a new world. I separated the households, Jamie & Thornton lived in their own place while, Angelo and his family are rooming with his friend Craig and Craig's girlfriend. I don't know when but Jamie is now engaged to Thornton.
Faster Forward: When together (except in the presence of Arabella and Thornton), Angelo and Jamie behave as if they are still lovers. They tip very carefully around the romance thing. Well, one afternoon when I had Angelo take Maria to the park to play, Jamie was there. I guess the 'longing' became too much to bear so, Maria witnessed her parents becoming intimate. She received the 'Witnessed Betrayal' moodlet and within four Sim days, I received a pop-up saying Maria and Jamie were no longer friends.
I don't want my Sim children estranged from their 'absent' parents so, I had Angelo invite Jamie over to spend time with her daughter. When Jamie showed up and made a move to pick Maria up, Maria began to cry. All of her needs were in the green except her mood bar which had dropped slightly at sight of her mother. The 'Witnessed' moodlet had long since worn off and Jamie totally behaved herself while at Angelo's home. So, I don't understand what happened. When Jamie picked Maria up, both Craig and his girlfriend instantly put a picture of Maria in their thought bubbles (without the baby crying icon).
It seems Maria doesn't want to be near her mother and I don't know what to do about it. I don't want them to become strangers (Maria's 46 days until becoming a child). Because Jamie is not a part of my household I can't force her to interact with her daughter. If I put Angelo and Jamie in close proximity to each other they cheat on their partners (uncaught), but he's the only one who can bring Maria into Jamie's space. Any ideas??
FYI:
1- Jamie won't visit if Angelo isn't there or if he leaves she just reads a book (defeats the purpose).
2- Arabella (Angelo's wife) doesn't like Jamie and avoids her (which leaves the two alone).
3- Craig and his girlfriend aren't of high enough celebrity status to interact with Jamie.
4- Thornton doesn't like children, so I don't want to wait until she is a child to rebuild this relationship. Or, invite him over (plus, Angelo wants to beat him up).
5- Afraid if I add Maria to Jamie's household things will be worst for the little girl.
***I need a creative solution to this problem and my mind is drawing a complete blank on what to do!
(https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Catch-22)
==========================
Toddlers Don't Forgive or Forget?
Okay, I've had Sims who have held lifetime grudges despite the 'friendly' relationship level stated by the relationship panel so, I know this is a thing. Still, I'm not understanding what I am seeing with my toddler. Here's the story:
Back in Sunset Valley, my Sim Angelo fathered a child with Jamie Jolina. They had a daughter named Maria. Jamie and Maria were townies until the day I discovered Jamie was in danger of losing her job and both she and the baby were miserable. I didn't want the social worker to take Maria, nor did I want the game to kill her so, I moved them into the household with Angelo and his wife, Arabella. **He had the baby before he met Arabella, he didn't cheat on her.
Needless-to-say, I had Angelo 'break-up' with Jamie (they were still romantic interests) so there would be no issues with his wife once she moved into their home. Jamie respected his marriage and didn't make any major moves on Angelo while she was under his roof (just the occasional compliment appearance).
Fast Forward. Jamie busted up Thornton Wolff's marriage and became partnered with him. I moved the entire family (Angelo, Arabella, Maria, Jamie & Thornton) to a new world. I separated the households, Jamie & Thornton lived in their own place while, Angelo and his family are rooming with his friend Craig and Craig's girlfriend. I don't know when but Jamie is now engaged to Thornton.
Faster Forward: When together (except in the presence of Arabella and Thornton), Angelo and Jamie behave as if they are still lovers. They tip very carefully around the romance thing. Well, one afternoon when I had Angelo take Maria to the park to play, Jamie was there. I guess the 'longing' became too much to bear so, Maria witnessed her parents becoming intimate. She received the 'Witnessed Betrayal' moodlet and within four Sim days, I received a pop-up saying Maria and Jamie were no longer friends.
I don't want my Sim children estranged from their 'absent' parents so, I had Angelo invite Jamie over to spend time with her daughter. When Jamie showed up and made a move to pick Maria up, Maria began to cry. All of her needs were in the green except her mood bar which had dropped slightly at sight of her mother. The 'Witnessed' moodlet had long since worn off and Jamie totally behaved herself while at Angelo's home. So, I don't understand what happened. When Jamie picked Maria up, both Craig and his girlfriend instantly put a picture of Maria in their thought bubbles (without the baby crying icon).
It seems Maria doesn't want to be near her mother and I don't know what to do about it. I don't want them to become strangers (Maria's 46 days until becoming a child). Because Jamie is not a part of my household I can't force her to interact with her daughter. If I put Angelo and Jamie in close proximity to each other they cheat on their partners (uncaught), but he's the only one who can bring Maria into Jamie's space. Any ideas??
FYI:
1- Jamie won't visit if Angelo isn't there or if he leaves she just reads a book (defeats the purpose).
2- Arabella (Angelo's wife) doesn't like Jamie and avoids her (which leaves the two alone).
3- Craig and his girlfriend aren't of high enough celebrity status to interact with Jamie.
4- Thornton doesn't like children, so I don't want to wait until she is a child to rebuild this relationship. Or, invite him over (plus, Angelo wants to beat him up).
5- Afraid if I add Maria to Jamie's household things will be worst for the little girl.
***I need a creative solution to this problem and my mind is drawing a complete blank on what to do!
1
Comments
Honestly, at this point, I'd just bring out NRaas MasterController and start resetting everything. Reset the kid, reset Jamie, reset Jamie's reputation if I could find a way... without mods, the only thing I can think of is the reset that happens when you evict a household, bulldoze and replace the lot, and move the sims back in one Edit Town session. The sims keep their jobs and relationships but lose their promised dreams and opportunities. Maybe that process would also unstick this toddler rejection scenario. You could try it with Jamie's household alone or with your active sims as well.
Here's an example of what I mean. Angelo's athletic, if I have him work out, she comes over to dance (Jamie's a party animal). If I have him watch TV, she joins him. If I have him read a book or the newspaper, she reads or talks to the others in the house. She once pulled out her phone and made a call. If he talks with his roomies, she waits to dance with him. At no time does she interact with her kid. While I had him clean the toilet and make five individual servings of Salad and microwave Mac & Cheese, she interacted with her child (he has very low cooking skill & is a fire hazard).
If Arabella is there, then tensions (attitudes) run high which isn't good for the entire household. And, if Arabella's presence riles Jamie's Flirty trait then all kinds of drama kicks off.
I have had Angelo take Maria over to Jamie's house to visit and every time he gets into with Thornton (I won't send him if Thornton isn't there). I have had Angelo take Maria to the park and invite Jamie out. Maria makes a beeline for the toys at the opposite end of the park, while Jamie and Angelo make a beeline for each other, or the chess table (Jamie's a genius, they are naturally drawn to the chess tables). I have had Arabella tag along, sit on the bench reading a book, just to keep her eyes on things. Jamie will usually leave the park or play chess. None of this helps bring Maria & Jamie closer together (they used to be Best Friends). I've had Craig take Maria over to Jamie's house and she won't even come to the door to let him in, all I get is the 'wait outside' notice when I hover over his face, so I send them home.
In addition, when Jamie is near, Maria goes to the toy which is furthest away from her. She won't come close to her mother. Memories aren't active in my game. Jamie and Angelo have never done anything negative in front of Maria, until that day. They do their (autonomous) dirt when there are no witnesses. I could reset them for the fun of it but they aren't stuck, this is their behavioral pattern (not stuck like the snub interaction).
The problem with a catch 22 problem is, no matter what path I choose its going to have a negative impact. The trick is to find the path of the least negative impact possible. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
I'm not certain but I think Jamie's & Angelo's attraction lies in the fact they were each other's 'first' plus they share a child. They did have a very active romance, they spent a lot of time together hanging out, doing things before they conceived Maria; maybe he wants that back (??). Jamie's flirty trait and want for Thornton was the reason I didn't allow them to become an official couple, I felt she would just cheat on Angelo and it would eventually break his heart; so I introduced him to Arabella (which now may have been a mistake).
When it comes to Maria rebuilding a relationship with her Mom, I may have found a temporary solution. The TV. If Angelo is watching TV Jamie will watch also, I have had Maria join to watch as well, since Sims like to talk through TV programs. So far, Maria's relationship status is climbing ever so painfully slowly in the positive direction. This, of course, is going to be detrimental to Arabella's marriage as the more time Angelo spends with Jamie the stronger their relationship will be, but its all I can think of for now. Thanks for the suggestion.
Shortly after Maria enters childhood, her family is moving to another world. I would like Maria & Jamie to have the best relationship they can before they leave, as the little girl will be spending part of her summer's vacations with her mom (Traveler Mod). I find its a lot easier to maintain a long distance relationship than it is to develop one. I don't plan for her to live with her mother until she is a teenager (it'll be a lot easier to 'deal' with her Mom's ways if she is developing a sort-of life of her own rather than being a child with very little options, that's why I need them to improve).
As for Angelo and Jamie, I'm going to leave them as romantic interests (for now). I have Angelo pulling double duty to keep his wife 'reasonably happy' and, they've just started spamming me the wishes to have a baby. I'm not sure if I will grant it or not. I'm hoping their marriage will survive this 'chapter' and improve.
I would remove Thornton from the picture (temporarily). At some point Jamie is going to have to make up her mind which man she really wants and they do say absence makes the heart grow fonder.
I would move Maria in with her mother. Make or break time for their relationship. If things go really badly she can be returned to her father's household. Distressing for any child, real or sim yet so many of them do go through it and seem to be alright when they are older.
During the period Maria is with Jamie, Angelo can gave visitation rights but he brings a third party with him, his wife or another one of his children. Anything to stop Jamie hitting on him in front of Maria.
Once Jamie decides on her sim, presumably Thornton, then you have the basis for Angelo moving to another world. Assuming Thornton doesn't want Maria around, she can go with her father who probably has been given an ultimatum by the long suffering Arabella.
Does that give you something to work with ?
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Sim enim est vita
@Bettyboop55 - Your suggestion got me to thinking, 'Exactly how are things in Jamie's home?', so I switched household to see and the picture ain't pretty, Thornton has the strongest relationship with the local bartender, who is an 'old Friend'. He has barely any relationship with Jamie. Likewise, Jamie's strongest relationship is with Angelo. Playing as Jamie, I had her go over to see Maria. When Maria saw her she instantly put the 'Blue Lonely' icon in her thought bubble. When I had Jamie pick her up she just screamed her head off and the icon turned Red (Extreme Loneliness). Jamie got a moodlet that said "If the baby can't be quieted, it's best to get as far away as possible." And, an option to 'Complain about the baby' to Angelo. I sent Jamie home and quit the game without saving.
Reloaded the game, reset the Sims and, played as my normal household until Jamie got off from work. Then I switched households again. Playing as Jamie I sent her over to the see her daughter. When Maria saw her she didn't have the 'blue lonely icon' in her thought bubble, which was a good sign. However, when I had Jamie pick her up she began screaming her head off again and the red 'Extremely Lonely' icon reappeared. Jamie received the crying Baby' moodlet which had no time limit underneath it. I had Jamie do all of the social interactions with her but, Maria still had the 'Red Extremely Lonely' icon in her dialog balloon.
I'm beginning to think I may have to move everyone into the same household. Or, wait until Maria is a child to work on their relationship. Currently, the only way I can get their relationship to climb is if they (Angelo, Maria & Jamie) all watch TV together. I am really baffled as to why Maria can't stand the sight of her mother. I hope this doesn't carry on into childhood. I've never been in such a tight spot like this with any of my Sims. Maybe I should break their bloodline and later reconnect it with NRaas' Master Controller(?). I honestly don't know which path to take.
In addition to all of that, it seems both Jamie and Thornton have been demoted in their careers!
EDIT For: Wrong word usage.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuW44b3uCMtCSaq4gwC8EZg
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuW44b3uCMtCSaq4gwC8EZg
I did wonder about Thornton. He has never been one of my favourite premades but I did make him raise 2 children with Morgan. However it would be heartless to put Maria with a mother she can't stand and a man who dislikes children. I am sorry to hear that there are no interactions between Jamie and her little girl. If it was a real child I would say lingering resentment at being abandoned by her natural mother and growing attachment to Arabella might be part of it.
You may have to change your storyline and move Maria away with Angel and his family. Then try for a reconciliation when Maria reaches her teens. I just hope the relationship between Angel and his wife is strong enough to provide a stable home for Maria.
As for Jamie I would be tempted to let Thornton go. Losing Maria is going to hurt so a relationship with another sim and perhaps a child or two would help. It also makes for a great scenario for when she meets Maria again. Relationships with half-siblings can be tricky.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Sim enim est vita
I still intend on keeping the family in town until Maria ages up. I want to invite Jamie to her birthday party so she can see her little girl before she leaves (and I can get great screenshots
Arabella's marriage appears to be a strong one since she hasn't sent me the 'Things Aren't Working Out' request plus, she still wants to move forward with her husband by starting their family; so that's an excellent sign. Angelo stopped having 'Jamie' dreams a while back, he seems ready to put all of his focus on Arabella and strengthening their marriage; so that's another positive sign.
I think they'll be fine now that this madness will be coming to an end. Arabella won't have to endure me sending her husband into the arms of another woman. Maria won't have to endure being around a Sim which hurts her to see. And, Angelo won't have to be conflicted as to which woman should have his full heart. And, I won't have to stress out because my Sims are stressing out (that's called LOVE for all you Simmers reading who scream 'It's Just A Game!').
@JACKIEJOY @puzzlezaddict @1need4kaffee @IreneSwift @Bettyboop55 @Karritz - Thanks so much for helping me to figure this out!
@Goulsquash - Thanks for the image that still has me laughing!