Knowing who emigrates/immigrates [NRAAS SP] «12...Next Go

OriginalMara

So I'm back again with another question...

Is there any way for me to know who is leaving/coming into my game? I mean, most of my houses are filled, so I don't have a big rush of immigrants or anything. But it would be nice to know when someone moves into town.

Right now I just check with Master Controller and Town Family and see if there are any new names I don't recognize lol. But I wish it was one of the notifications as well.

Same goes for emigrating.


All I know is that it lets me know if someone moves within the town itself, from an old home to a new home. Just not leaving town or entering town.

Not sure if it's just not possible or if I'm missing a setting somewhere in the mod.


(And if I have asked this before, my apologies! I cannot remember if I have or not...)

TadOlson

I have both of those features disabled in story progression and I always know who immigrated into town because I had to add them manaully from edit town in story progression mode and switch to playing them for a while as they get settled into town.I also have almost all of the NRaas Mod collection installed so I wouldn't miss those if I had those features enabled.

igazor

OriginalMara wrote: »

So I'm back again with another question...

Is there any way for me to know who is leaving/coming into my game? I mean, most of my houses are filled, so I don't have a big rush of immigrants or anything. But it would be nice to know when someone moves into town.

Right now I just check with Master Controller and Town Family and see if there are any new names I don't recognize lol. But I wish it was one of the notifications as well.

Same goes for emigrating.


All I know is that it lets me know if someone moves within the town itself, from an old home to a new home. Just not leaving town or entering town.

Not sure if it's just not possible or if I'm missing a setting somewhere in the mod.


(And if I have asked this before, my apologies! I cannot remember if I have or not...)

The Lots Manager of NRaas SP is the one that handles SP immigration of resident households (true NPCs like Service and Role Sims and other homeless sims that come and go but don't live in actual houses are managed differently). The Manager makes a complete cycle around once per sim day, this can vary depending on the speed of overall progression and other settings if they have been changed from default.

Once per cycle, provided SP Immigration is actually on (the Immigration Gauge must be > 0) the game checks to see if if conditions are favorable for a new household to move into town. If so, you will be notified as in "The Smith Household has selected your town as their home and have moved into their new house at (address)!" Pretty soon after that, you will get notifications of which adults in the recently arriving household have gotten jobs and where. If conditions are not favorable that day for a new household to move in, you will instead get a notification from the Town Council "You need an Immigration Score of 20 to allow a new household to move in, current conditions only add up to 9 points" or something like that. Or you might get one that tells you some households want to move in but there are no available or suitable houses for them to move into if this is the case.

To check on the Immigration Gauge value you currently have set, I just used 20 as an example above, on City Hall or an in-game computer NRaas > SP > General Options > Options:Lots > Options:Immigration/Emigration > Immigration Gauge. Again, if it's zero, there is no immigration so nothing to report on as the immigration system is not running. The actual condition score you are getting that day, 9 which was not high enough in my example above, depends on a complicated formula that takes a lot of things into account -- the need for more job slots to be filled, more sims to provide relationships for existing residents, more to populate lots, where you have your town's population cap set and how many residents you already have, an element of randomness, etc.

These notifications are not Stories and they are not optional, so there is really no way to switch them off even if you wanted to except I think maybe for the new job announcements. At least, I don't think there is.

If you ever deploy Rapid Immigration, the exact same things happen but once every 5-10 sim minutes until the value you specify in Rapid decrements back down to zero. This is how we order up let's say ten new households almost all at once if we want to.

Emigration however, the moving of sims out of your world, is different. It's not on by default under SP like it is under EA's rules and is actually complicated to arrange, but when it does happen after much fussing about with SP settings, I'm afraid there is no notification. The emigrating sims just disappear. But this only applies to residents, when homeless sims disappear from your world it's not considered emigration as they are volatile to begin with.

Does any of this help?

OriginalMara

It does... somewhat.

That is too bad about the emigration side. But to be honest, I have a good share of my households marked so they won't emigrate, so anyone who does leave, isn't a big deal. (I just like to keep track of who is in my town lol). And I guess I am more concerned about who moves in, because once they are gone, what can I do? haha

In regards to the immigration, though... I think I might have a problem there.

I have my gauge set to 50. Because my town is pretty full, and I don't want a whole rush of immigrants.
And I do receive the notifications of "you don't have enough points" yadda yadda. Or the one about people wanting to but not enough houses, etc.
But I have never seen the one telling me about a specific family moving into town. I usually only notice later on, like if I see their house/name in map view... or if there is a different related notification. Like this time I only figured it out because I got a notif. that one of the new people had adopted a dog. And was like, who is that? lol

So I'm not sure if I'm just always missing it somehow or if something else is wrong.

igazor

As a test not necessarily meant to be saved and played through, assuming you have at least some vacant houses in town, perhaps try running Rapid Immigration set to 3 (or something like that) and see if you get three notifications that new households have moved in.

If not, perhaps I was wrong and the immigration notifications really are being suppressed by Story suppression options.
NRaas > SP > General Options > All Stories > (are these set to anything less than "All Sims"?)
NRaas > SP > General Options > Options:Stories > Disallow Story > (anything selected there that sounds like new families moving in?)

Karritz

In my games I've noticed new sims in town - gradually -very slowly appearing - but don't recall seeing any notifications about anyone moving into town. That doesn't mean the notifications don't happen though as I don't always read them all.

OriginalMara

I think I only have one empty house right now, so hopefully the rapid immigration will still work, ha. I will check that out when I have a bit more time to play.


I did check out my Stories settings...

On All Stories, I have everything in there marked to 'Yes' except for 'none.' Not sure if having 'all' marked as well as all the separate things is messing things up. Because I do get notifications for (seemingly) everything else.
I'll try removing them all but keeping it on just 'all' to see if there is a difference.

In Disallow, I have it at zero; nothing is marked. So they are all enabled.
The possible relevant ones I think would be Lots: Immigration (and Lots: Emigration).
There is Lots/Household: House changed, but I think that is for moving within town?

Some of these stories I don't think I've seen either but that is probably just because the events just haven't happened ha.

KevinL5275

I usually just get a lot of "so and so would like to move in but they can't find a suitable home." But yet I have open homes. Could that be because they can't afford any homes?

TadOlson

I don't get notifications of new families moving in because I would laready know they moved in from placing them on the lot where their new home was and I always end up switching to them for a while to get them to settle in and find jobs becaue they won't take any jobs on their own with my settings disallowing that.Any new arrivals who can't afford a home might end up living on a community lot if they arrived in town before finding out there was no housing available to them.The Bell family arrived in Oak Leaf before a house was ready for them and they lived at the market until their house was built.

igazor

KevinL5275 wrote: »

I usually just get a lot of "so and so would like to move in but they can't find a suitable home." But yet I have open homes. Could that be because they can't afford any homes?

There could be exceptions I suppose, but usually SP should eventually figure out how to craft newly incoming households around the homes you have left open for them to move into. There is a limit to the crafting though; by default over §10,000,000 homes would not attract any incoming households.
NRaas > SP > General Options > Options:Lots > Options:Immigration/Emigration > Immigration Lot Cost Range

Homes that are marked as Residential-(Player) Ownable as opposed to Residential-Regular will not allow sims to move into them. This one trips up a lot of players, if you switch a (Player) Ownable lot to Regular and find that upon leaving Edit Town and returning it reverts to Player Ownable again, then try making it a Commercial:No Visitors Allowed first, then Residential-Regular and the new designation should stick.

The homes must also meet basic Inspection requirements -- each must have a refrigerator and enough beds/cribs to accommodate the incoming household. How strict things might be beyond that would be a function of how settings are arranged in NRaas > SP > General Options > Options:Lots > Options:Inspection and possibly a setting in the Mover mod.

TadOlson wrote: »

I don't get notifications of new families moving in because I would laready know they moved in from placing them on the lot where their new home was and I always end up switching to them for a while to get them to settle in and find jobs becaue they won't take any jobs on their own with my settings disallowing that.Any new arrivals who can't afford a home might end up living on a community lot if they arrived in town before finding out there was no housing available to them.The Bell family arrived in Oak Leaf before a house was ready for them and they lived at the market until their house was built.

Tad, your tips are valuable for those wishing complete player control over the incoming and existing households. This is similar to when we were recently talking about Rotations vs. household castes and then sims being pushed out of their homes into town in the evenings for large, densely populated worlds where you had around 2-4 households in town and I had 83. You referred to my setup and caste structure in that world as "extreme" but I'm sorry, it's not. Just a bit heavy, perhaps. There are players who push their world populations much higher than I do; my computer system if not the game itself does begin to push back after a while as my system isn't as strong as that of some others.

Not all of us play the same way. The players on this thread have or wish to have maybe 50 or maybe around 100 or more households per world and do not wish to control who gets to arrive by placing them ourselves each time. Instead, we prefer to set up some limits, use SP to guide the genetic and demographic makeups of newly spawned resident households to some extent, and then watch to see what kinds of households the game/mod creates to move into our worlds for us. It's a different style of play, neither one is better than the other, except I would have to say that taking complete player-directed control over an entire very large town really would be more work than fun after a certain point for many of us.

And there are yet more approaches. Yet another is to restrict newly arriving households to be placed automatically in temporary housing, probably not the nicest of homes and possibly restricted to a certain part of town. After they get jobs and establish themselves in town, then they would no longer be considered "immigrants" and they might be free to move into whatever other houses might be available for them. It's a lot of work doing it that way, but I could see for sparsely populated worlds that the player doesn't want to fill up all at once it could be fun to manage things that way as well and it wouldn't be difficult to see who the newly arriving households are since they would only be living in a certain area at first.

TadOlson

@igazor -We've both found rather extreme way of playing the game to get control over our towns without the games glitching out.I've gone as far as adding a Mod to disable the child abuse social worker NPC's because those have caused a few of my older saves to get corrupted from deleting sims in those saves.I've turned all home inspections off entirely because it had glitched up my ability to move sims in manually from edit town.I just use HomeOpener for doing home inspections and can even check on an inactive family to see if they're starting to outgrow their starter home if they moved into a smaller home on a tiny lot.

cwaddell

I know who moves into my towns because I have things set so I am prompted to choose the last names.

OriginalMara

Okay, I played a bit after I switched rapid immigration to 1 (because I only had one empty house, far as I know).

I don't even think a full Sim day had gone by... I got a few other notifications like usual. I decided to look at Town Families through MC. And sure enough, there was a new family in there I didn't recognize. And I never got the notification for them moving in. Unless it is just slow. I can see if it pops up later yet. Or is in the summary.

So far though I don't think I'm getting any of the notifs for families moving into town.


(Also, weirdly enough, my rapid immigration is back on zero; is this because there are no empty homes?)

igazor

Rapid Immigration is like placing a one-time order for some new households. It's not meant to be a persistent setting. If you set it for 10, and 6 households move in (or try to, obviously they will fail if there aren't enough suitable houses for them) at that point the RI setting will have decremented down to 4. Then after those 4 move in or try to, the RI setting will be on 0 again and stay there. RI should make one attempt and decrement by 1 every 5-10 sim minutes or so.

So you set it for 1, one household moved in, now it should be 0.

I'm sorry, but I don't why you aren't getting the new household notifications. If you run SP on Slow or Snail, certainly these notifications can be delayed or appear out of order from each other but things usually catch up after a few sim hours depending on how busy SP's various component managers were at the time. Sometimes I'll get the message that So and So just got a new boss (or became a new boss) at their place of work, then I'll get the one that says they just got a job there, leaving me wonder who in the world they are talking about. Then the new household arrival message might show, which clears up the mystery. But it shouldn't take all that long to happen.


Edit: Wait a minute, got it.
"On All Stories, I have everything in there marked to 'Yes' except for 'none.'"

That's probably what's doing it. You are including the categories in a custom manner one by one, but there is no category for arriving immigrants. The "Residents Only" filter would be fighting it. Try NRaas > SP > General Options > All Stories > All. That should clear all of the category settings and reset the story filter so that it is all-inclusive again. And checkmark twice to accept. When I look at that screen, there is a "Yes" next to All only but all the rest of the filters are blank (not "Yes").

OriginalMara

I actually already changed that... As I said just after that:

I'll try removing them all but keeping it on just 'all' to see if there is a difference.

Under All Stories, I have Yes next to All; the rest are blank.

I will let things go for a bit longer, see if I do eventually get a notification for this new family that came in after rapid immigration. I see them in Master Controller >> Town Family. But hadn't gotten the notice yet. Maybe SP will catch up.

I'll check in later.

igazor

Sorry, must have misread that part.

When you change the settings under All Stories, the current story queue has to empty out before the changes actually take effect. That can take a sim day or two, so it's difficult to say whether the notification for that particular household will catch up or if it got suppressed during the changes.

OriginalMara

Heh, no worries lol.

Hmm... well I will keep playing and see if it catches up.
I marked a couple households with an emigration of 1 (the individual setting; not the general one, which is still 50). To see if/when they get kicked out and replaced, to give me a chance to see if I got the moving in notification when immigration kicks in again.


Otherwise I might have to take cwaddell's approach, and ask for the last name prompt.

igazor

I'm not near my game right now, but am pretty sure the household ratio setting has to be -1 to force emigration...

OriginalMara

Haha, yes, you are right. I fixed that up.
On that note, having my regular emigration number at 50... is that making it harder for people to emigrate? Should I lower it? I mean I don't want a great migration of people leaving but right now it seems they won't leave unless I mark them -1.
(I have my immigration at 50, so I had just put emigration at the same... but I wasn't sure if that was helping so I did change emigration, I think, to something lower, 25.)

Unfortunately, it only emigrated one-half of a couple, so I still do not have any empty houses for someone to immigrate to/cannot determine yet if I'm still glitching immigration stories.


However, in my last story summary, one of the notifications was: Emigration: [name of Sim]
Not sure I had ever noticed that before. So maybe I will see when someone leaves! I don't think I had the singular one but it was in the summary.

Crossing fingers I will get a notif. when someone moves in. (When I finally have a free house or two).

igazor

There are three scenarios related to SP emigration.
- Elder emigration to open up slots in inactive households that are getting full
- Inactive relationship thresholds in crowded worlds that foster emigration of households where no one is related to anoyne else in town
- Debt ratios - this one doesn't happen unless the household falls into and stays in debt or the ratio is set to -1; I think this is the one you are adjusting

The settings do not map onto gauge settings like immigration does. The three scenarios and their settings are described here, in the section on Emigration near the end of the page.
http://nraas.wikispaces.com/StoryProgression+FAQ+Immigration

Karritz

I have never considered setting immigration targets for my games so I've kept out of this conversation. I like to see what the game does. I usually go with it but do intervene some times.

OriginalMara

Okay, so I had new Sims immigrate in... but I only found out when they were assigned new jobs, and I didn't recognize their names. First in the Summary, then when the actual notification displayed. (Which I now understand is due to the different speed settings for why they sometimes show up out of order).

I never had one saying that "so and so chose my town" or whatever, like I am supposedly supposed to get.

So I think I will have to figure something else to learn when new people move into town.



(Also, besides the two households I had marked for emigration with -1, I seem to be missing a couple pets from other families. Not sure if they were elder pets and were emigrated or just died and I hadn't noticed haha.)


Going to fiddle with my settings a bit more, perhaps.

igazor

Many of us have SP immigration down to an exact science. Well, it does throw surprises sometimes but at least we can see what it's doing. But the arriving households do need to have an available home to move into. It sounds like maybe some of what you are describing are homeless solo sims arriving in town to take up co-worker and boss career slots. That's driven by the game itself, not by SP unless you can see these are entirely residents with now their homes having moved in. Or I could be mistaken and you're just not going to see those arrival messages for reasons we just haven't figured out yet.

SP emigration is not an exact science for anyone I know who deploys it (maybe it was for Twallan). In my case, in the rare times I've tried to use it on purpose, part of the procedure after all the fussing around with -1 debt ratios and the other options is finally yelling at the screen, "Hey, why don't you just leave town already?"

OriginalMara

No, I'm pretty sure most if not all my immigrated Sims did move into empty houses I had. (It's just that now I don't have as many open ones as I used to, even after I added/built more lol). That's partly how I found them, when I saw a name in a notification I didn't recognize; I found them listed under Town Family in Master Controller. Then went looking for which house they had moved into. (And then set them for -1 to see if they would emigrate to check my immigration notifications).

So yeah, I guess I just have something weird going on lol.

OriginalMara

So, I just thought of something. Not sure if this is causing my issue with notifications or not.

But when I added in more homes to my town, some of them were from scratch, a couple I just got from the bin. And when I did so, this meant that none of them got an address to go along with them, unlike the houses that were there in the town from the beginning.

Could it be I am not getting a notification because the immigrants are moving into these houses without addresses?
And if so, is there a way to edit one in? I looked in Edit Town but there doesn't seem to be a space for address in the lot description area.
I did see that I could probably do that with the Tagger mod, but I'm not sure I want to download the whole thing just so I can edit addresses lol. (But if this is the only way I will look into it).

igazor

Oh, I love that feature of Tagger! Some of my worlds' maps, EA ones even, have so many lots with no addresses or addresses that just don't make any sense. Does a street really need to change its name every block or two, for example, and for the most part here where I live odd numbered houses tend to stay on one side of the street, even on the other, so I get all confused when this doesn't happen.

But that wouldn't be the issue. Addresses are just text. If a lot has no address, in places where it would appear there would just be a blank space. So one might see "The Derps have just moved into town and taken up lodging in their new house at " ".