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Something I noticed about Eco Living + Clubs
xMyrthe
Posts: 56 Member
I wanted to create a club for the freegans but the trait wasn't in the list of options! None of the eco lifestyle traits were. But I noticed fabrications was an option within the 'skills' list, so is this a bug or an oversight? They are still adding on to the club options aren't they? 
2
Comments
https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/READ-FIRST-Compiled-list-of-reported-Issues/m-p/3445209#M130065
Here is link to the bug thread for this: https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/OPEN-ECO-GT-DU-Traits-not-in-Club-menu/td-p/9202908 It is always a good idea to take the time to click the "me too" button, if you can spare the time.
This is also on in the April Laundry List so it's a reasonable expectation it should be fixed in the next patch.
Thanks! I was looking through the list but for some reason I couldn't find it. Good to know it's on the laundry list, although I'd assume it shouldn't be that hard to fix?
Next project for them should be to simplify the bug list, and the bug reporting. And of course, to clearly explain their prioritizing of the issues listed.
Maxis does not have much to do with the Answers.com site to list TS4 bugs. That is all done by a Simmer named Crinrict who also did all that for TS3, too. She does the prioritizing of what is important and developers look at that list, however, Maxis does not create, maintain and or categorize or prioritize any part of the TS4 bug list and or gather any info and or do anything, that is all done by Crinrict. And all voluntary.
I also think the list will be helpful to those who use mods/cc. If a simmer has a mod for an issue on the list, it gives him/her a heads up there might be a mod that won't be necessary any longer. This, in turn, is also a heads up to be sure and test a game before putting mods back into use. On that note, I'll also add that bug reporting should always be done after testing on a mod/cc free game. I've participated at AHQ for 8 years and I'm still surprised by the number of simmers who completely ignore the request to only report bugs being seen in a mod/cc free game. Those reports take up space and I think make the forum more difficult to search.
@Cinebar AHQ is the official reporting site for bugs. Crinrict does maintain the list but she does not prioritize what is important. She has stated so on more than one occasion in threads on that forum. I don't participate in social media but I get a Twitter feed sent, unsolicited, to me from the app on my phone that I'll peruse. SimGuru Nick has said, also on more than one occasion, to report bugs on the forum and that he sees all of them. I think if you check this pinned thread: https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/INFORMATION-How-does-this-forum-work/td-p/7368632 it will give you a more thorough understanding of how the forum works, for now anyway.
Boy, did I ever want to "high 5" you bolding that Crin does all this on a voluntary basis. As you mentioned, she started this bug reporting thing in TS3. I'm not sure the TS3 list got the same official attention as the TS4 forum does now, though. Anyway, it's time consuming and can be a pretty thankless undertaking. I've often been shocked at some of the rants directed towards her when she is trying to help someone troubleshoot and/or find a workaround for an issue. She's also all over the General Discussion and Feedback and Technical forums at AHQ trying to help simmers. I honestly don't know how she does so much and still have a life in the real world, too. Obviously, the respect I have for her is showing
It's amazing that they don't pay her for that. The labor practices in the gaming industry are abysmal, and EA takes the cake for the worst conditions of all. And people wonder why bugs go unfixed, LOL. It's because they don't actually pay the people who report and categorizes them.
I have seen the bug forum, it does not attract me to post in it, considering the many rants and misunderstandings, and as you say, reports made without grasping what is a bug and how a bug report should be made. While I have admired crinrict for her efforts; I think the information on the bug forum is severly lacking, evidently not adapted to the consumer base. And that is Electronic Arts responsibility to amend; not ordinary player's, no matter their energy and interest.
I also do not care for the fact that EA lets players manage a bug forum for a high profit game, so bug-ridden as it seems to be. And when looking at the count of Me Too's, as I understand it a basis for prioritizing, they are not that many for each bug report, considering the massive fan base and sale of the game; except for a few highly popular threads often resurfaced. I think the fact that the older bug reports are hard to find contributes to that, which, I would think, effects us all.
I understand that your primary concern seems to be that the bug forum is not maintained by an official employee of the company and that you aren't trying to undercut anything Crin has done. I am, however, not grasping what you mean when you say "I think the information on the bug forum is severely lacking, evidently not adapted to the consumer base." There are so many pinned threads on how the forum works, how to report bugs, troubleshooting suggestions and a compilation of reported bugs. Further clarification for me with that statement is necessary because I'm not walking in your shoes and consequently may not seeing what you perceive as deficient information.
If you have concrete suggestions for improvement, I would encourage you to start a feedback thread. Honest, open communication is important. Your viewpoint is every bit as important as mine. I'm used to using the bug forum and I may be missing something you are seeing with a pair of fresh eyes.
I hope the implementation of the laundry list may encourage more simmers to hit those "me too" buttons. With the quantity of simmers playing those counts should be much higher but QA doesn't make simmers participate. It's up to each individual simmer as to whether or not they wish to be involved in the bug reporting process. I'm sure there are some players who probably don't even know that bug forum even exists, or new players may not even realize they are encountering a bug. Not everybody who plays participates in forums of any kind.
You're right in that some older reports aren't always that easy to find. Sometimes if you don't input the right keyword for an issue, they can be elusive. I find the same thing holds true for searching on this forum. I've had my fair share of exasperating moments searching both sets of forums for something I know is there but just won't come up in a search. Why that happens, I don't know. Poor search engine? User choice for keyword? Who knows, sigh.
I think I mainly hope that any efforts by the SimGurus, like the Laundry List for example, would lead to faster bug fixing and no major issues destroying old saves unknowingly opened directly after a patch, as I have read happened in many bug reports. One idea to lead there would be for QA to not be so secretive, for the major bulk of players, and give information about their process and what is needed, to encourage more to get more involved. I wonder what is stopping them, if it is a dreary company policy of secrecy; or something else. Perhaps they just don't realise that information is always needed, and if asked for they would use their many channels to promote it.
Oh, and to answer your question, I think that the issues now lined up with the bug forum makes it clear that whatever information is posted at AHQ is not enough, and needs to be reworked. I have also read all that information, but then I read everything, and I have noticed that not many do; so while the intention is good I wonder how many actually read it, or dare to when seeing the mass of it. I also must stress that any information and managing needs to be official source; not player directed, to be taken seriously. The fact that the ones posting helpfully in the bug forum are often attacked, I think would contribute to EA needing to clarify a few things about their efforts, and encouraging more to join in.
I'm not sure what would lead to faster bug fixing with the size of the game now. Too much code which further needs cross-pack compatibility checks and balances might mean "fast" is off the table. I am not a coder so I don't know for sure. I'm just trying to temper my expectations with logic and prefer something is fixed without the fix breaking something else, even if it does take a little longer to accomplish.
I don't know all the reasons some players can have older saves disappear or be destroyed after a patch. I do recall the Father Winter fiasco and was blessed not to have encountered the bug in my game. I also recall an incident of relationships being lost if build mode was entered prior to entering a household but also avoided that affecting me since I don't build and always go into live mode first. They got hotfixes out for those issues as quickly as they could.
I actually don't see QA as being secretive. I think they often say it's being investigated because it's at some stage in the bug fixing process and that's about all they can offer. Another reason, though, why I think the Laundry List is a good start to some transparency. They use Twitter to promote reporting bugs, too.
Like you, I read everything too and I think you hit the nail on the head by mentioning that a lot of AHQ posters (most likely more accurately, new posters) don't. If we are correct, it doesn't matter who pins that info at the top of forums, QA or Crinrict, because it will be ignored anyway. Sometimes people must not even read the thread they are posting in. I shake my head often at posts that say "I have the same problem, what do I do", when the answer is literally right above their post. Oddly enough, I usually see that where the simmer has resurrected an older thread and am perplexed as to how they could search to find it but appear not to read the contents and I'm talking about one page threads not long ones.
The legitimacy of the AHQ bug forum is not a source of concern for me, even if player maintained for collection purposes. Since it is deemed the official place to post bugs and read by QA, I'm okay with that. I see gurus asking for saves, further info, interjecting to say something is done "by design" and even saw SimGuruNick step into a thread recently to name two mods known to be causing that issue for players if outdated versions were in their game. BTW, by the number of posts after him stepping in, I had to wonder if any of those posters even bothered to read what he wrote. That's probably the long way of saying that even if company run, I'm not sure it would lead to better results or efficiency with bug reporting and/or length of time to fix a bug.
I've enjoyed our conversation on this topic and still recommend that if you care to start a feedback thread you do so. Most systems can stand an improvement and if you want to voice what would make it easier for you, please do so. You said you don't find the forum inviting to post in. Perhaps you can start with what would make it more inviting for you. Perhaps you might want to spend a little more time on that forum first to help organize specific suggestions in your head. As I said earlier, I'm so accustomed to the format now that I won't rule out there's an easier way to accomplish something. Someone who is just really getting started with it might be able to make a suggestion I haven't considered before now. BTW, I realized this morning that I didn't even have to go to the bug forum to get the link to the thread for xMyrthe because the Laundry List is also posted in this forum. I just shook my head... at myself
The matter of the bugs being surprisingly many and taking a very long time to adress will be there until the ones in charge decide to deal with it differently, whichever way they choose to do it; and all players can do until then is try to explain the deficiencies and come up with ideas of how things could be managed differently, or better. If the reason for this conversation was not there we wouldn't have to; but I have enjoyed it too.
I find that just absolutely absurd....Maxis should definitely send some reward or cash or something to this person.