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The 20th Anniversary Was Underwhelming

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  • PrincipleOfEntropyPrincipleOfEntropy Posts: 389 Member
    edited February 2020
    LiELF wrote: »
    So, yeah. Happy anniversary. Hope you guys are crafty enough to put the pieces back together.

    You've made a lot of superb points over all of these threads and the way you summarise the whole ordeal is just spot on.
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  • ApparentlyAwesomeApparentlyAwesome Posts: 1,523 Member
    Scobre wrote: »

    I think that's something people would enjoy. Give people who've never played or fully experienced the older ones a chance to experience what led to where we are today but they'll likely never do it. They may not want people to see all the good things that have been excluded to some degree leading up to today now that I think about it. Nor would they want players to realize the bad habits they've stuck with either.

    In an interview about The Sims 20th anniversary in The Washington Post someone mentioned how content creators and modders help keep the game fresh but modders also tend to help keep the game running too.
    But then that is the point of them only talking about the Sims 4 is to forget about the Sims history so that they can get more sales of the current game not letting their current customers play the older Sims games.  That way they don't have to reach anywhere near the expectations of the older games and not even reach the expectations of their mobile games too or not even reach the expectations of a Kardasian mobile game.  Set no expectations so DLC can be sold on brand name alone.

    Basically. That's how it seems to me sometimes. Sims 4 was supposed to be an alternate universe and something that may or may not be unrelated to the previous Sims games. So from the beginning it seems they've been trying to distance themselves from the previous games, supposedly to give them more creative control over the families added to the game. But I feel the creative control they desired extended beyond just premade sims but features and gameplay as well.

    They talk down about and throw barbs at the previous games, talk about how the current game does things more or better even when it's a lie, and pander to what's popular now. Why would newer players even bother looking at the older games if they're being told by the same makers that the current game is the best? They would and should know, they made it. Thinking from the perspective of a newer player, why would they talk bad about their own product unless it's true? The community would tell them otherwise but depending on the guru they throw barbs at the community too.

    To what @Cinebar and @LiELF said, agreed! I think Plumbella summed it up pretty well too. I still hope there's something else but the reasoning she gave is something I agree with if a hot tub is all there is that they're doing.
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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited February 2020
    Camkat wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    I think that's something people would enjoy. Give people who've never played or fully experienced the older ones a chance to experience what led to where we are today but they'll likely never do it. They may not want people to see all the good things that have been excluded to some degree leading up to today now that I think about it. Nor would they want players to realize the bad habits they've stuck with either.

    In an interview about The Sims 20th anniversary in The Washington Post someone mentioned how content creators and modders help keep the game fresh but modders also tend to help keep the game running too.
    But then that is the point of them only talking about the Sims 4 is to forget about the Sims history so that they can get more sales of the current game not letting their current customers play the older Sims games.  That way they don't have to reach anywhere near the expectations of the older games and not even reach the expectations of their mobile games too or not even reach the expectations of a Kardasian mobile game.  Set no expectations so DLC can be sold on brand name alone.

    Basically. That's how it seems to me sometimes. Sims 4 was supposed to be an alternate universe and something that may or may not be unrelated to the previous Sims games. So from the beginning it seems they've been trying to distance themselves from the previous games, supposedly to give them more creative control over the families added to the game. But I feel the creative control they desired extended beyond just premade sims but features and gameplay as well.

    That's one of my most disliked things about TS4. Whereas they tried to do the exact opposite, all this did was hurt the identity of the game. They tried to make it so they could, basically, get all the characters that TS2 creatively designed and wrote, but then they gave them zero backstory and failed to make them look remotely close to their TS2 counterparts. Then, when they saw the Pancake family meme was taking off on Reddit around TS4's launch, they banked on using them as a mascot of TS4, only for them to bring them into the game looking absolutely nothing as marketing designed them, lol. That's not even factoring how TS4's personality system, or lack thereof, prevents anyone from making grumpier Sims, as they ultimately all end up ear-to-ear smiling every moment anyway.

    It's little things like that which I notice the most, and really make it seem as if they don't truly have the amount of care for the franchise that one might hope, given the prices EA charges for content.

    Luckily, I'm still rocking TS2 with its unparalled gameplay (although TS3 comes close), NPCs with rich design/stories, and the best animation quality of the series. With each of these mishaps EA takes (such as the 20th anniversary), I am more and more convinced The Sims will never go back to that level of quality again, and it's a shame because, really, all they had to do was take TS2 and TS3 and mold it into one.

    That is what I expected TS4 to be. It was surprising how many steps back they took. It almost feels more like a 1.5 than a 4. :/

    I think the alternate universe was an excuse to not have to make relationships or even characters look like they had in the past. They saved some money in programming by not fleshing them out and leaving it for us to be creative with. They also didn't have to pay people to play the old games or even google them (at the very least) to learn about the characters.

    Thinking now on it, I guess we should have been prepared for it to be underwhelming. They didn't care about the past when they created TS4 so I guess it stands to reason that they don't care now either.

    The alternative universe statement was made in when someone asked about the time lines, and the back stories, it was admitted they couldn't remember them. Yes, google might have helped. I think the fandom knows more about the timelines and stories than Maxis, which on it's face is odd because it seems to say, hey we are just here to make money, not build on a legacy of twenty years or keep the passion of building upon the first game. I mean who would have thought The Sims is a sitcom, only the new Maxis.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,809 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    I think that's something people would enjoy. Give people who've never played or fully experienced the older ones a chance to experience what led to where we are today but they'll likely never do it. They may not want people to see all the good things that have been excluded to some degree leading up to today now that I think about it. Nor would they want players to realize the bad habits they've stuck with either.

    In an interview about The Sims 20th anniversary in The Washington Post someone mentioned how content creators and modders help keep the game fresh but modders also tend to help keep the game running too.
    But then that is the point of them only talking about the Sims 4 is to forget about the Sims history so that they can get more sales of the current game not letting their current customers play the older Sims games.  That way they don't have to reach anywhere near the expectations of the older games and not even reach the expectations of their mobile games too or not even reach the expectations of a Kardasian mobile game.  Set no expectations so DLC can be sold on brand name alone.

    Basically. That's how it seems to me sometimes. Sims 4 was supposed to be an alternate universe and something that may or may not be unrelated to the previous Sims games. So from the beginning it seems they've been trying to distance themselves from the previous games, supposedly to give them more creative control over the families added to the game. But I feel the creative control they desired extended beyond just premade sims but features and gameplay as well.

    They talk down about and throw barbs at the previous games, talk about how the current game does things more or better even when it's a lie, and pander to what's popular now. Why would newer players even bother looking at the older games if they're being told by the same makers that the current game is the best? They would and should know, they made it. Thinking from the perspective of a newer player, why would they talk bad about their own product unless it's true? The community would tell them otherwise but depending on the guru they throw barbs at the community too.

    To what @Cinebar and @LiELF said, agreed! I think Plumbella summed it up pretty well too. I still hope there's something else but the reasoning she gave is something I agree with if a hot tub is all there is that they're doing.

    I think the Sims 4 being an alternative universe is just an excuse for them to pretend the sims 1-3 don’t exist. Which is arguably the sims 4 biggest problem. I’ve never saw any developers from a long running franchise plum on their roots so spectacularly all the time.

    Like during the university live stream and the developer playing had to ask who Angela Pleasant was. But then watching a live stream it’s painfully obvious Some of the devs don’t play their own game.It also really bothers me that some of them *cough Grant cough* regularly criticise the sims 3. And so much of what they say isn’t even true! Like flat out lying about expansion pack releases a year. It’s extremely unprofessional to criticise your own product to make your other product look better. Especially when the product is still on sale.

    I look forward to the day the online sims 5 comes out with fun surprise mechanics micro transactions comes out and the devs and the game changers throw the sims 4 under the bus to make the new one look good.

    lol, yes. Like one other who I won't mention saying TS2 didn't have 'emotions' and they were just good at selling that fiction to us. As if we were easily manipulated. I don't know which is worse, saying they did a snow job and or not knowing how indepth TS2's emotions are. When we all know TS2 has emotions and nothing like these silly buffs.

    Don’t even get me started on that topic.

    All I’ll say is my sims 1&2 sims when they are going through trauma like a fire or death, or they lose their jobs, they become depressed, they won’t skill build, you have to make them go to work because they won’t go.

    Sims 4 sims if any of the above happens to them they will have forgotten once they walk into another room. But sure those games didn’t have emotions.
  • ApricusApricus Posts: 671 Member
    Simple: EA does not appreciate its players and it’s one of the worst popular gaming companies
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  • GoldenBuffyGoldenBuffy Posts: 4,025 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    I think that's something people would enjoy. Give people who've never played or fully experienced the older ones a chance to experience what led to where we are today but they'll likely never do it. They may not want people to see all the good things that have been excluded to some degree leading up to today now that I think about it. Nor would they want players to realize the bad habits they've stuck with either.

    In an interview about The Sims 20th anniversary in The Washington Post someone mentioned how content creators and modders help keep the game fresh but modders also tend to help keep the game running too.
    But then that is the point of them only talking about the Sims 4 is to forget about the Sims history so that they can get more sales of the current game not letting their current customers play the older Sims games.  That way they don't have to reach anywhere near the expectations of the older games and not even reach the expectations of their mobile games too or not even reach the expectations of a Kardasian mobile game.  Set no expectations so DLC can be sold on brand name alone.

    Basically. That's how it seems to me sometimes. Sims 4 was supposed to be an alternate universe and something that may or may not be unrelated to the previous Sims games. So from the beginning it seems they've been trying to distance themselves from the previous games, supposedly to give them more creative control over the families added to the game. But I feel the creative control they desired extended beyond just premade sims but features and gameplay as well.

    They talk down about and throw barbs at the previous games, talk about how the current game does things more or better even when it's a lie, and pander to what's popular now. Why would newer players even bother looking at the older games if they're being told by the same makers that the current game is the best? They would and should know, they made it. Thinking from the perspective of a newer player, why would they talk bad about their own product unless it's true? The community would tell them otherwise but depending on the guru they throw barbs at the community too.

    To what @Cinebar and @LiELF said, agreed! I think Plumbella summed it up pretty well too. I still hope there's something else but the reasoning she gave is something I agree with if a hot tub is all there is that they're doing.

    I think the Sims 4 being an alternative universe is just an excuse for them to pretend the sims 1-3 don’t exist. Which is arguably the sims 4 biggest problem. I’ve never saw any developers from a long running franchise plum on their roots so spectacularly all the time.

    Like during the university live stream and the developer playing had to ask who Angela Pleasant was. But then watching a live stream it’s painfully obvious Some of the devs don’t play their own game.It also really bothers me that some of them *cough Grant cough* regularly criticise the sims 3. And so much of what they say isn’t even true! Like flat out lying about expansion pack releases a year. It’s extremely unprofessional to criticise your own product to make your other product look better. Especially when the product is still on sale.

    I look forward to the day the online sims 5 comes out with fun surprise mechanics micro transactions comes out and the devs and the game changers throw the sims 4 under the bus to make the new one look good.

    lol, yes. Like one other who I won't mention saying TS2 didn't have 'emotions' and they were just good at selling that fiction to us. As if we were easily manipulated. I don't know which is worse, saying they did a snow job and or not knowing how indepth TS2's emotions are. When we all know TS2 has emotions and nothing like these silly buffs.

    This has got me thinking. Is this the reason why EA took the Sims 2 UC down off of Origin? Is this why they refuse to add it back, or offer up Sims 1? because they know these games offer a far more immersive experience, and is a vastly more superior game? This is what I'm starting to believe.

    Because if newer simmers had access to these games - for the most part - they would see what has been stripped away, watered down, and flat out ignored. It's like the whole open world thing in Sims 3. Instead of fixing the game engine and making it stable, they just tossed it out. Spoke ill of the game, and treated it like the step child left in the attic.

    It truly is a shame that they treat a legacy of richness, fun, enjoyment, and all around quality franchise as dirt. Belittling it and trying to act as if it doesn't exist. I know none of the gurus even hang around here or even read anything. And they look at us as a bunch of toxic players who know nothing. But it's still nice to have a place to vent and talk with others (even if we all don't see eye to eye), and just share. At least hear among each other we are heard.
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    It's up to Nancy!
    My YouTube!

  • pepperjax1230pepperjax1230 Posts: 7,953 Member
    Though I find everyone’s opinions just and you should rightly so be upset. It doesn’t mean that EA doesn’t care you don’t know what budgets they have for the game. They give content free a lot and we are never satisfied with what we do get. It’s not up to EA to make us satisfied with the free content. Yes Sims has been around for 20 years I never see other game companies give anything for their anniversaries for being around like Elder Scrolls has been around for 26 years they never do anything.
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  • pepperjax1230pepperjax1230 Posts: 7,953 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Camkat wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    I think that's something people would enjoy. Give people who've never played or fully experienced the older ones a chance to experience what led to where we are today but they'll likely never do it. They may not want people to see all the good things that have been excluded to some degree leading up to today now that I think about it. Nor would they want players to realize the bad habits they've stuck with either.

    In an interview about The Sims 20th anniversary in The Washington Post someone mentioned how content creators and modders help keep the game fresh but modders also tend to help keep the game running too.
    But then that is the point of them only talking about the Sims 4 is to forget about the Sims history so that they can get more sales of the current game not letting their current customers play the older Sims games.  That way they don't have to reach anywhere near the expectations of the older games and not even reach the expectations of their mobile games too or not even reach the expectations of a Kardasian mobile game.  Set no expectations so DLC can be sold on brand name alone.

    Basically. That's how it seems to me sometimes. Sims 4 was supposed to be an alternate universe and something that may or may not be unrelated to the previous Sims games. So from the beginning it seems they've been trying to distance themselves from the previous games, supposedly to give them more creative control over the families added to the game. But I feel the creative control they desired extended beyond just premade sims but features and gameplay as well.

    That's one of my most disliked things about TS4. Whereas they tried to do the exact opposite, all this did was hurt the identity of the game. They tried to make it so they could, basically, get all the characters that TS2 creatively designed and wrote, but then they gave them zero backstory and failed to make them look remotely close to their TS2 counterparts. Then, when they saw the Pancake family meme was taking off on Reddit around TS4's launch, they banked on using them as a mascot of TS4, only for them to bring them into the game looking absolutely nothing as marketing designed them, lol. That's not even factoring how TS4's personality system, or lack thereof, prevents anyone from making grumpier Sims, as they ultimately all end up ear-to-ear smiling every moment anyway.

    It's little things like that which I notice the most, and really make it seem as if they don't truly have the amount of care for the franchise that one might hope, given the prices EA charges for content.

    Luckily, I'm still rocking TS2 with its unparalled gameplay (although TS3 comes close), NPCs with rich design/stories, and the best animation quality of the series. With each of these mishaps EA takes (such as the 20th anniversary), I am more and more convinced The Sims will never go back to that level of quality again, and it's a shame because, really, all they had to do was take TS2 and TS3 and mold it into one.

    That is what I expected TS4 to be. It was surprising how many steps back they took. It almost feels more like a 1.5 than a 4. :/

    I think the alternate universe was an excuse to not have to make relationships or even characters look like they had in the past. They saved some money in programming by not fleshing them out and leaving it for us to be creative with. They also didn't have to pay people to play the old games or even google them (at the very least) to learn about the characters.

    Thinking now on it, I guess we should have been prepared for it to be underwhelming. They didn't care about the past when they created TS4 so I guess it stands to reason that they don't care now either.

    The alternative universe statement was made in when someone asked about the time lines, and the back stories, it was admitted they couldn't remember them. Yes, google might have helped. I think the fandom knows more about the timelines and stories than Maxis, which on it's face is odd because it seems to say, hey we are just here to make money, not build on a legacy of twenty years or keep the passion of building upon the first game. I mean who would have thought The Sims is a sitcom, only the new Maxis.

    Obviously I not questioning the gurus, those who have said they are long time players, or have been playing since Sims 1. I will say that the proof is in the pudding. When you say one thing, but then you are on a live stream and you don't know X, Y, and Z, to me that speaks volumes.

    And yes, it's not a stipulation for a developer to have played the previous games before working on a sequel, but I've said this a few years back, maybe in 2015. That for a game that's lasted this long those working on it should have at least been made to play the three previous. Get familiar with them. Understand why players have such an attachment to these games. And not reply so much on telemetry.

    This may be the worst comparison, but it's what comes to mind. The Witcher on Netflix. Henry Cavill plays Geralt of Rivia. And in my opinion he's done a fantastic job! Really brought the character to life, knocked my socks off, and hit it out of the ball park. I honestly can't see any other person playing Geralt anymore. And why is this? It's because he LOVES the Witcher games. I think he said some place that he's beaten the story mode of the 3ed game like X amount of times. When he found out about the show he lobbied for it, because he knew the world, the people, the Witcher so well.

    And this is like with the Sims and Sims 2, and also with the majority of Sims 3. Those who worked on them had that passion, that drive. They understood the game, and for the most party what us players also loved about the games. But now they are so out of touch, and I'm not sure how that happened. Wait, stay with me for a second, but I could be way off base on this one. When word got out about Sims Medieval we all thought that it would honestly be like Sims 3, but set in the Dark Ages. And when the game launched many of us played, and it was closer to an RPG than a Sims game. If I remember correctly the babies couldn't even age up to kids.

    They really missed the mark on that one. And they sat there scratching their heads wondering why players weren't over the moon with the game. Sure it was fun, and I still play it. But they had a whole wealth of information with the forums, cc that players made, mods, and general feedback/requests from players as to the type of game we wanted. Yet that wasn't what we got and they "didn't' understand why.

    This has been echoed with Sims 4. And the latest is with that survey that was released, were they asked what things would players like to see added or improved up, etc. That had me scratching my head since we've been over here on this forum since 2014 launch of the game, voice what we wanted added, see returned, what could/should be enhanced upon, etc. I mean, it's labeled FEEDBACK. And then I forget which guru said it, that it was a surprise upon the completion of the survey, that players wanted everything contained within. I'm like, is everyone at EA sitting with their heads buried in the sand? Or are they purposefully ignoring us, hoping that we will tire and finally go away. But then they put out yet another survey, and basically the majority of the players are asking (yet again) to give us features that make the Sims 4 a true life simulation and not some half done knock off.

    I may have gone off what I was originally trying to say, so I'm ending it here. lol
    I like Sims Medieval it’s fun and hilarious and no I didn’t expect it to be Sims 3 only in the medieval times. Sims 4 is good it just lacks things to still do like hobbies for sims. I play it still and I have played the Sims since Sims 1.

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  • CK213CK213 Posts: 20,525 Member
    Though I find everyone’s opinions just and you should rightly so be upset. It doesn’t mean that EA doesn’t care you don’t know what budgets they have for the game. They give content free a lot and we are never satisfied with what we do get. It’s not up to EA to make us satisfied with the free content. Yes Sims has been around for 20 years I never see other game companies give anything for their anniversaries for being around like Elder Scrolls has been around for 26 years they never do anything.

    Probably because anything they do will be outshined by the Elder Scrolls modding community. :D
    All I want from them is the next TES game, so the Nexus can get busy while I play the vanilla game and set myself up for the modded glory to come.
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  • llamasflullamasflu Posts: 221 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    fullspiral wrote: »
    I didn't know what to expect and I certainly had no Grand expectations. I guess I just expected something other than a re-skinned hot tub from the current iteration.

    I would have been cool with the love bed from 1.
    Drew Carey.
    Mrs Crumplebottom.


    Something ICONIC from 20 years of SIMS.

    Not a freaking hot tub. From sims 4 that people have already paid for as a feature of a pack they sold.

    I just don't get their mindset. Where's THEIR love of the game and the series?

    I wanted a pet rock

    Lucky for us, TS4 Sims have about the same amount of personality as one. :lol:

    I-....
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  • WaitWhatYTWaitWhatYT Posts: 512 Member
    edited February 2020
    Basically. That's how it seems to me sometimes. Sims 4 was supposed to be an alternate universe and something that may or may not be unrelated to the previous Sims games. So from the beginning it seems they've been trying to distance themselves from the previous games, supposedly to give them more creative control over the families added to the game. But I feel the creative control they desired extended beyond just premade sims but features and gameplay as well.

    Ugh, maybe it's just me being picky and overly nostalgic, but this is one of the many things I absolutely HATE about Sims 4. The Calientes are a prime example of this, basically their entire bloodline down to their entire ethnic background got rewritten, and for what? They aren't more interesting or more fun to play because of it and it adds nothing, it's just a slap in the face, a cheap watered down version of characters that I and many others grew to love because of the lore associated with them. And for all the hullabaloo over the strides made for inclusivity and diversity in Sims 4, why whitewash what was once one of the most inclusive and diverse set of premade sims (I mean they had Spanish, Arabic, even ALIEN ancestors, and nothing to show for it in 4, WTH)? Even beyond the unfortunate racial implications, it just smacks of laziness and a lack of love for the franchise which so many fell in love with in the first place! #JusticeForNighatCaliente #KatrinaIsALIE

    I'm really sick of them pretending the older games 1. didn't exist and 2. weren't leagues better than the dumpster fire that is Sims 4 in every conceivable way. As Sk8rblaze points out, Sims 2 had THE BEST and most fluid animations, even down to the hair animations. And just look at all the other posts in this thread detailing all the awesome objects that were in past games which could've been brought back if they cared enough to do so. Heck, to debunk the myth about sims in previous games not having emotions or distinct personalities, check out Sims 2 with wants, fears, turn-ons and turn-offs, interests, aspiration meter where if high they're on cloud nine and if low they might actually have a mental/emotional breakdown, A COMPREHENSIVE AND DETAILED MEMORY SYSTEM WITH OPINIONS OF CERTAIN MEMORIES VARYING FOR DIFFERENT SIMS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

    Real talk, I barely even play Sims 4 anymore, I mainly open it up to create, upload and download sims and lots. When I do play, it's typically either to test out something I'm curious about (i.e. looking for hidden stuff to combat the lack of content or trying to break the game in fun new ways*), or me genuinely playing the game in short spurts before getting bored and realizing I could be doing something better with my time. Sims 1 and 2, I could waste entire days on those without even realizing it, and this is when I had more external factors taking up my time like school, family obligations, church, dinners with family friends, etc. I have significantly more free time for simming these days and I'm simming significantly less, what does that tell you about the state of this franchise?

    *One example of this, I've been "playing" more because I've recently found an exploit that allows me to make certain body parts on my sims much bigger or slimmer than you're normally allowed to make them, and I wouldn't have found this out if I didn't use MCCC. An exploit that I found via a mod is one of the few things keeping me coming back to this colossal disappointment of a "game". Heck, if it weren't for mods and CC, I wouldn't be playing this game, PERIOD.

    That was a lot more ranting than I meant to do but I feel good about it because I haven't been to the forums for a while and my frustrations with this "game" have just been growing more and more, so I'm at least glad to see I'm not the only one disappointed. I've long learned not to expect anything from EA but a line has to be drawn somewhere.
  • CK213CK213 Posts: 20,525 Member
    edited February 2020
    It really is thoughtful that EA gave us something to celebrate the 20th Anniversary of the sims.
    That said, they really need to put more thought into what they do.

    A celebration like this should be for everyone who has participated in 20 years of The Sims and the past generation of Sims games.
    This is more like a Sims 4 celebration that benefits the few people who are late to the party.

    -All you people who already paid money for this feature, well, be glad for the others who don't have it.
    The party is really for them, not you truly loyal customers that have bought everything we have put out.

    -Never mind about The Sims 1,2, and 3, we are selling 4 now and this is really easy to do.

    -So enjoy this, but actually, you can create this already, with way more options, on a 3x3 grid instead of 4x4,
    if you have Perfect Patio stuff.
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    Really, we should be celebrating TS4 build mode, as you can save these as rooms and only have to add a roof and fascia to build it again.
    I will not use the gift as I prefer the variety I can create by building it myself and saving them as rooms. Simmers who can't build can always download from the gallery.
    Post edited by CK213 on
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  • GoldenBuffyGoldenBuffy Posts: 4,025 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Camkat wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »

    I think that's something people would enjoy. Give people who've never played or fully experienced the older ones a chance to experience what led to where we are today but they'll likely never do it. They may not want people to see all the good things that have been excluded to some degree leading up to today now that I think about it. Nor would they want players to realize the bad habits they've stuck with either.

    In an interview about The Sims 20th anniversary in The Washington Post someone mentioned how content creators and modders help keep the game fresh but modders also tend to help keep the game running too.
    But then that is the point of them only talking about the Sims 4 is to forget about the Sims history so that they can get more sales of the current game not letting their current customers play the older Sims games.  That way they don't have to reach anywhere near the expectations of the older games and not even reach the expectations of their mobile games too or not even reach the expectations of a Kardasian mobile game.  Set no expectations so DLC can be sold on brand name alone.

    Basically. That's how it seems to me sometimes. Sims 4 was supposed to be an alternate universe and something that may or may not be unrelated to the previous Sims games. So from the beginning it seems they've been trying to distance themselves from the previous games, supposedly to give them more creative control over the families added to the game. But I feel the creative control they desired extended beyond just premade sims but features and gameplay as well.

    That's one of my most disliked things about TS4. Whereas they tried to do the exact opposite, all this did was hurt the identity of the game. They tried to make it so they could, basically, get all the characters that TS2 creatively designed and wrote, but then they gave them zero backstory and failed to make them look remotely close to their TS2 counterparts. Then, when they saw the Pancake family meme was taking off on Reddit around TS4's launch, they banked on using them as a mascot of TS4, only for them to bring them into the game looking absolutely nothing as marketing designed them, lol. That's not even factoring how TS4's personality system, or lack thereof, prevents anyone from making grumpier Sims, as they ultimately all end up ear-to-ear smiling every moment anyway.

    It's little things like that which I notice the most, and really make it seem as if they don't truly have the amount of care for the franchise that one might hope, given the prices EA charges for content.

    Luckily, I'm still rocking TS2 with its unparalled gameplay (although TS3 comes close), NPCs with rich design/stories, and the best animation quality of the series. With each of these mishaps EA takes (such as the 20th anniversary), I am more and more convinced The Sims will never go back to that level of quality again, and it's a shame because, really, all they had to do was take TS2 and TS3 and mold it into one.

    That is what I expected TS4 to be. It was surprising how many steps back they took. It almost feels more like a 1.5 than a 4. :/

    I think the alternate universe was an excuse to not have to make relationships or even characters look like they had in the past. They saved some money in programming by not fleshing them out and leaving it for us to be creative with. They also didn't have to pay people to play the old games or even google them (at the very least) to learn about the characters.

    Thinking now on it, I guess we should have been prepared for it to be underwhelming. They didn't care about the past when they created TS4 so I guess it stands to reason that they don't care now either.

    The alternative universe statement was made in when someone asked about the time lines, and the back stories, it was admitted they couldn't remember them. Yes, google might have helped. I think the fandom knows more about the timelines and stories than Maxis, which on it's face is odd because it seems to say, hey we are just here to make money, not build on a legacy of twenty years or keep the passion of building upon the first game. I mean who would have thought The Sims is a sitcom, only the new Maxis.

    Obviously I not questioning the gurus, those who have said they are long time players, or have been playing since Sims 1. I will say that the proof is in the pudding. When you say one thing, but then you are on a live stream and you don't know X, Y, and Z, to me that speaks volumes.

    And yes, it's not a stipulation for a developer to have played the previous games before working on a sequel, but I've said this a few years back, maybe in 2015. That for a game that's lasted this long those working on it should have at least been made to play the three previous. Get familiar with them. Understand why players have such an attachment to these games. And not reply so much on telemetry.

    This may be the worst comparison, but it's what comes to mind. The Witcher on Netflix. Henry Cavill plays Geralt of Rivia. And in my opinion he's done a fantastic job! Really brought the character to life, knocked my socks off, and hit it out of the ball park. I honestly can't see any other person playing Geralt anymore. And why is this? It's because he LOVES the Witcher games. I think he said some place that he's beaten the story mode of the 3ed game like X amount of times. When he found out about the show he lobbied for it, because he knew the world, the people, the Witcher so well.

    And this is like with the Sims and Sims 2, and also with the majority of Sims 3. Those who worked on them had that passion, that drive. They understood the game, and for the most party what us players also loved about the games. But now they are so out of touch, and I'm not sure how that happened. Wait, stay with me for a second, but I could be way off base on this one. When word got out about Sims Medieval we all thought that it would honestly be like Sims 3, but set in the Dark Ages. And when the game launched many of us played, and it was closer to an RPG than a Sims game. If I remember correctly the babies couldn't even age up to kids.

    They really missed the mark on that one. And they sat there scratching their heads wondering why players weren't over the moon with the game. Sure it was fun, and I still play it. But they had a whole wealth of information with the forums, cc that players made, mods, and general feedback/requests from players as to the type of game we wanted. Yet that wasn't what we got and they "didn't' understand why.

    This has been echoed with Sims 4. And the latest is with that survey that was released, were they asked what things would players like to see added or improved up, etc. That had me scratching my head since we've been over here on this forum since 2014 launch of the game, voice what we wanted added, see returned, what could/should be enhanced upon, etc. I mean, it's labeled FEEDBACK. And then I forget which guru said it, that it was a surprise upon the completion of the survey, that players wanted everything contained within. I'm like, is everyone at EA sitting with their heads buried in the sand? Or are they purposefully ignoring us, hoping that we will tire and finally go away. But then they put out yet another survey, and basically the majority of the players are asking (yet again) to give us features that make the Sims 4 a true life simulation and not some half done knock off.

    I may have gone off what I was originally trying to say, so I'm ending it here. lol
    I like Sims Medieval it’s fun and hilarious and no I didn’t expect it to be Sims 3 only in the medieval times. Sims 4 is good it just lacks things to still do like hobbies for sims. I play it still and I have played the Sims since Sims 1.

    I still play SM too, but it still wasn't the game many of us had expected it to be. And that was in my opinion the start of the downhill spiral. I also still play Sims 4. It's gotten better with the added paid content over the years, but for me all of the awesome mods that players have created, giving us back features that the devs refuse to give us. I really want the sims to rise back to what it was before. I truly hope that Sims 5 will be what many had though Sims 4 was supposed to be; Sims 2 and Sims 3 combined and built upon with gameplay improvements.

    But I'm digressing away from the topic of the thread. Yes, the 20th birthday of this franchise was more focused on only the one game, and nothing on what came before it. Paving the way, and allowing EA to see the Sims to 20 years. :(
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  • MortimerGothMortimerGoth Posts: 80 Member
    A lot of interesting and spot-on posts in this thread. I remember playing the original Sims game and how magical it felt. Twenty years since that game's release and I think I'd still rather play it than Sims 4 :D . (Sims 3 is still my fave, though).
  • LuxuryLuxury Posts: 127 Member
    WaitWhatYT wrote: »
    Basically. That's how it seems to me sometimes. Sims 4 was supposed to be an alternate universe and something that may or may not be unrelated to the previous Sims games. So from the beginning it seems they've been trying to distance themselves from the previous games, supposedly to give them more creative control over the families added to the game. But I feel the creative control they desired extended beyond just premade sims but features and gameplay as well.

    Ugh, maybe it's just me being picky and overly nostalgic, but this is one of the many things I absolutely HATE about Sims 4. The Calientes are a prime example of this, basically their entire bloodline down to their entire ethnic background got rewritten, and for what? They aren't more interesting or more fun to play because of it and it adds nothing, it's just a slap in the face, a cheap watered down version of characters that I and many others grew to love because of the lore associated with them. And for all the hullabaloo over the strides made for inclusivity and diversity in Sims 4, why whitewash what was once one of the most inclusive and diverse set of premade sims (I mean they had Spanish, Arabic, even ALIEN ancestors, and nothing to show for it in 4, WTH)? Even beyond the unfortunate racial implications, it just smacks of laziness and a lack of love for the franchise which so many fell in love with in the first place! #JusticeForNighatCaliente #KatrinaIsALIE

    I'm really sick of them pretending the older games 1. didn't exist and 2. weren't leagues better than the dumpster fire that is Sims 4 in every conceivable way. As Sk8rblaze points out, Sims 2 had THE BEST and most fluid animations, even down to the hair animations. And just look at all the other posts in this thread detailing all the awesome objects that were in past games which could've been brought back if they cared enough to do so. Heck, to debunk the myth about sims in previous games not having emotions or distinct personalities, check out Sims 2 with wants, fears, turn-ons and turn-offs, interests, aspiration meter where if high they're on cloud nine and if low they might actually have a mental/emotional breakdown, A COMPREHENSIVE AND DETAILED MEMORY SYSTEM WITH OPINIONS OF CERTAIN MEMORIES VARYING FOR DIFFERENT SIMS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

    Real talk, I barely even play Sims 4 anymore, I mainly open it up to create, upload and download sims and lots. When I do play, it's typically either to test out something I'm curious about (i.e. looking for hidden stuff to combat the lack of content or trying to break the game in fun new ways*), or me genuinely playing the game in short spurts before getting bored and realizing I could be doing something better with my time. Sims 1 and 2, I could waste entire days on those without even realizing it, and this is when I had more external factors taking up my time like school, family obligations, church, dinners with family friends, etc. I have significantly more free time for simming these days and I'm simming significantly less, what does that tell you about the state of this franchise?

    *One example of this, I've been "playing" more because I've recently found an exploit that allows me to make certain body parts on my sims much bigger or slimmer than you're normally allowed to make them, and I wouldn't have found this out if I didn't use MCCC. An exploit that I found via a mod is one of the few things keeping me coming back to this colossal disappointment of a "game". Heck, if it weren't for mods and CC, I wouldn't be playing this game, PERIOD.

    That was a lot more ranting than I meant to do but I feel good about it because I haven't been to the forums for a while and my frustrations with this "game" have just been growing more and more, so I'm at least glad to see I'm not the only one disappointed. I've long learned not to expect anything from EA but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

    small comment on this bc it's not really on topic. but I started with 4 so I came in with no knowledge of ANY of the premeds save for Bella goth and Malcolm landgraab, and whew when I say I was kinda sad when I went on the sims wiki and found out most of the 4 premades were in the other games and had backstories and in 4 the base game sims didn't even have the right relationships (seriously the BFF household are acquaintances and Don has no romantic relationship with any of the calientes), even in recent packs they do weird things similar to hanging the Calientes entire mother, like Holly Alto? I'm very confused as to why holly alto doesn't look like 3's holly alto and I'm pretty sure the only thing they have in common is the name which is like... just make a new sim.

    back on topic. It's really weird to me that Maxis pretends the other games don't exist, other than the occasional upload of a household from the last game. The 20th anniversary would've been the perfect chance to rectify that, I've seen some people talk about sims 2 and sims 1 being on origin and that would've been a great way to celebrate, heck even a sale for sims 3 would've been great too. This whole thing was a missed opportunity and it's kind of disheartening.
  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 11,966 Member
    I have to agree the 20th anniversary for the Sims 4 was underwhelming as it is an time for celebrating an series that had lasted so long and many felt EA/Maxis was going to pull out all the stops and they did not as it felt lukewarm and no spark. Sure they did not have to give an Hot tub that looks cheap and for me that is all. An free stuff pack with certain items from all versions including some new stuff for Sims 4. They gave an free SP for Xmas in Sims 2 and I still have mine and that was nice and using that as an example when EA/Maxis was so nice back then. Some people are going to remember what Sims 4 did not have going forward.
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    It is perfectly possible to be underwhelmed or disappointed by the way without necessarily thinking you deserved something.
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  • ApparentlyAwesomeApparentlyAwesome Posts: 1,523 Member
    I admittedly got distracted by the comments under the clip of the animations from Sims 2 and then the ones under the Sims 5 multiplayer meme. Some of them had me laughing but I agree with a lot of them. I wouldn't have had a problem with them just presenting all new premades. The world is big, space is even bigger. There could literally be billions of different towns, cities, planets, etc. and if they wanted to give themselves room outside the original storyline just create new stories with new sims. And if they want to recreate older premades then do that but do them justice or not at all. If the problem was remembering The Sims time lines there's a Sims wiki that details probably every premade in existence or they could reload the games and taken notes. The alternate universe thing was unnecessary to me.

    I think more of a nod towards the previous games that wasn't Sims 4 centric only in celebration would've been a little uplifting for those of us tired of having the previous games bad mouthed and as players of those games being told we're wrong for feeling the way we feel. I think it would've been fine if they'd just released TS1 UC since it's the game that's actually been around 20 years.
    Though I find everyone’s opinions just and you should rightly so be upset. It doesn’t mean that EA doesn’t care you don’t know what budgets they have for the game. They give content free a lot and we are never satisfied with what we do get. It’s not up to EA to make us satisfied with the free content. Yes Sims has been around for 20 years I never see other game companies give anything for their anniversaries for being around like Elder Scrolls has been around for 26 years they never do anything.

    It's hard not to feel like they don't care sometimes based on comments made about players who prefer the older games and feel tossed aside. I think the reason the free content isn't satisfying is for the same reason some people have an issue with the hot tub for one. It's an objects that had to be paid for before that they're now giving away for free and it's something you can already make in the game if you paid for the Perfect Patio stuff pack. They tend to change the look and rerelease items players already have if they have a certain pack and since there's no CASt, unless you use CC they can get away with that.

    Secondly, some of the free content has been like the company you bought a build it yourself piece of furniture from finally giving you one of the numerous screws or pieces missing after months or years. This goes back to the base game. If they did better by it in the first place, I don't think there'd still be so much irritation and dissatisfaction. Also, reskinning items and releasing them for free or in other packs feels at times like a pretty band-aid that's supposed to distract from the gaping wound behind it needing more attention. If you asked whether people wanted the team to work on the depth described in the community survey or more joggers right now, I bet people would go for the depth.
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  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 4,973 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »

    It's little things like that which I notice the most, and really make it seem as if they don't truly have the amount of care for the franchise that one might hope, given the prices EA charges for content.

    Luckily, I'm still rocking TS2 with its unparalled gameplay (although TS3 comes close), NPCs with rich design/stories, and the best animation quality of the series. With each of these mishaps EA takes (such as the 20th anniversary), I am more and more convinced The Sims will never go back to that level of quality again, and it's a shame because, really, all they had to do was take TS2 and TS3 and mold it into one.

    Exactly! That is where TS2 shines, the details, gameplay, animations. The great caring that went into the game is what makes it still my favorite version after all these years. Like you, I expected TS4 to be a blend of TS2 and the best parts of 3 and going on from there, taking what worked and building on it. Alas, the logical and sensible approach was not followed. Sad thing is my gut says TS5 will continue the downward plunge.
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