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  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    @DeservedCriticism EA has been secretive about this game from the beginning. They only showed CAS and no game play for the pre-orders of the base game. If the higher ups are not letting the creators talk about the game or reveal things to come in the game you have the choice not to buy until new content is out. If it does not suit your style of game play or you don't feel you have gotten your monies worth, don't buy it. It is sad they are not revealing things they use to in the past but it is what it is. We have no control over it other than our wallets

    I'm not buying it anymore, that's precisely the problem. We are voting with our wallets, and while that's "good," it could also mark a drastic downward slope for Sims 4. I still encourage people to vote with their wallet, it's just I feel most of us do that in hopes of seeing forced improvement, but the way things are looking, it's just going to make things worse. We shouldn't pity buy, and yet the likelihood things won't improve regardless is rather tragic.

    No matter how you view it, what's happened to Sims 4 is a prime example of mismanagement. This was their biggest earning franchise and they neglected it. Using Sims 3 income towards other titles is wise in terms of company productivity, but when your biggest earner is struggling in it's next iteration, you save it. You front the bill to improve it because you definitely want it on your side. That doesn't seem to be happening, which is rather amazing to watch.

    I haven't played the game in over a year. I feel your frustrations with the game however there are people who really do like this game and feel satisfied with what EA has put out for this game so far. These people will continue to buy the game. EA is counting on these people to buy the game.

    I don't think they can improve it. The game is extremely limited on what they can add. It was an online game to begin with and why its probably limited. Their hands are tied. A few pages back someone pointed out the they should have stayed with the old game engine. I agree. The sims 3 was/is massive though it needs fixing.

  • DecafHighDecafHigh Posts: 669 Member
    @DeservedCriticism EA has been secretive about this game from the beginning. They only showed CAS and no game play for the pre-orders of the base game. If the higher ups are not letting the creators talk about the game or reveal things to come in the game you have the choice not to buy until new content is out. If it does not suit your style of game play or you don't feel you have gotten your monies worth, don't buy it. It is sad they are not revealing things they use to in the past but it is what it is. We have no control over it other than our wallets

    I'm not buying it anymore, that's precisely the problem. We are voting with our wallets, and while that's "good," it could also mark a drastic downward slope for Sims 4. I still encourage people to vote with their wallet, it's just I feel most of us do that in hopes of seeing forced improvement, but the way things are looking, it's just going to make things worse. We shouldn't pity buy, and yet the likelihood things won't improve regardless is rather tragic.

    No matter how you view it, what's happened to Sims 4 is a prime example of mismanagement. This was their biggest earning franchise and they neglected it. Using Sims 3 income towards other titles is wise in terms of company productivity, but when your biggest earner is struggling in it's next iteration, you save it. You front the bill to improve it because you definitely want it on your side. That doesn't seem to be happening, which is rather amazing to watch.

    I haven't played the game in over a year. I feel your frustrations with the game however there are people who really do like this game and feel satisfied with what EA has put out for this game so far. These people will continue to buy the game. EA is counting on these people to buy the game.

    I don't think they can improve it. The game is extremely limited on what they can add. It was an online game to begin with and why its probably limited. Their hands are tied. A few pages back someone pointed out the they should have stayed with the old game engine. I agree. The sims 3 was/is massive though it needs fixing.

    Yeah and maybe this answers my questions from above, the game being the leftovers of Olympus perhaps their hands are just tied and they simply can't do much more than what they already are and the devs are just trying to get through till TS5 when they can correct those mistakes. Who knows? If that is the case though they should really stop with the implications and trying to hold TS5 hostage to get us to support TS4.
  • DeservedCriticismDeservedCriticism Posts: 2,251 Member
    edited November 2016
    DecafHigh wrote: »
    @DeservedCriticism EA has been secretive about this game from the beginning. They only showed CAS and no game play for the pre-orders of the base game. If the higher ups are not letting the creators talk about the game or reveal things to come in the game you have the choice not to buy until new content is out. If it does not suit your style of game play or you don't feel you have gotten your monies worth, don't buy it. It is sad they are not revealing things they use to in the past but it is what it is. We have no control over it other than our wallets

    I'm not buying it anymore, that's precisely the problem. We are voting with our wallets, and while that's "good," it could also mark a drastic downward slope for Sims 4. I still encourage people to vote with their wallet, it's just I feel most of us do that in hopes of seeing forced improvement, but the way things are looking, it's just going to make things worse. We shouldn't pity buy, and yet the likelihood things won't improve regardless is rather tragic.

    No matter how you view it, what's happened to Sims 4 is a prime example of mismanagement. This was their biggest earning franchise and they neglected it. Using Sims 3 income towards other titles is wise in terms of company productivity, but when your biggest earner is struggling in it's next iteration, you save it. You front the bill to improve it because you definitely want it on your side. That doesn't seem to be happening, which is rather amazing to watch.

    That last paragraph is the thought at the back of pretty much every post I make on this forum. Why isn't EA doing more to help improve / save TS4?

    As far as what has been released I do like the content that was added, the problem is the features and themes are always only half done. You get half a retail feature, the half you do get is good its just you can't help being put off knowing that you are still missing the other half. If you had both halves it would be fantastic! The missed potential is what I think a lot of folks, whether they know it or not is what most of the complaining is about.

    Everything in the game is just window dressing, all the depth the real meat and potatoes of the gameplay seem to be missing. If they could just get that into the game, if they had the resources to give us EP's that weren't half done I think this could be a really good game. My fear is though if sales are lagging EA will just use that as an excuse to throw away the franchise as a whole not bothering to notice that it was their own neglect and mismanagement not waning interest that caused the downfall, that is pretty much SOP for EA since the days of Ultima. Buy up a studio/franchise milk it for what the name recognition is worth without investing in it then as soon as it becomes unprofitable shut it down.

    Something I have learned through life experiences is what an outrageous myth it is that there's any correlation between wealth/power and intelligence. It's...well, rather depressing, but it's exactly that: a myth. Rich and powerful folk like to claim they're wealthy or powerful because they earned it and deserve it, but in my experience you've got a 50-50 shot that it's actually deserved at all. It's a myth they tell themselves cause of course people like reassurance and an ego stroke.

    The truth of the matter is it can be outstandingly surprising how often common sense can fail even the most powerful or influential people and positions. By all measures of common sense, it would be very wise to invest time, resources and effort into sustaining the most profitable franchise under EA's belt by an enormous margin, and yet somehow it doesn't seem like they're doing that, and yes, it seems plausible they could just shut it down. Shutting it down would again be outrageously strange, because EA currently more or less holds a monopoly on life simulators; it's not just their biggest cash cow, it's a market monopoly. Aside from the Sims there's only games like Harvest Moon or Animal Crossing, but those obviously take a very different spin on their version of life simulators.

    No matter how you look at it, it's practically impossible to make sense of neglecting Sims 4. This would be like if the next Mario game bombed so Nintendo decided to cut funding and potentially end the Mario franchise entirely. That is insanity. That only makes sense if you think in the absolute short-term and fail to recognize long-term profits whatsoever.

    ....And yet it seems to be happening. I've no idea if Sims 5 is currently something EA plans on making or not, but I do know this game feels horrendously underfunded currently. I've no idea why or how, but if it's something I've learned with experience...? Titles, positions of power, qualifications...? Worthless. Your qualifications are in your day-to-day actions and performance, not in a title or a piece of paper. And whoever is making the decision to neglect/underfund this franchise is seriously underqualified as I see it.
    "Who are you, that do not know your history?"
  • DecafHighDecafHigh Posts: 669 Member
    edited November 2016
    Yoko2112 wrote: »
    but then why are you here??? What did you hope to accomplish by asking if any of us had access to their sales charts?

    Well I can't speak for her, but maybe - just maybe to contribute to the discussion ? To make you think about your speculation because you cleary overlooked some points in order to make it fit your ideas ?
    This is a forum, where people can discuss certain topics. If you want a safe space where you can shelter yourself from different views and additional information, maybe just don't visit a forum.

    Problem I see here is that we don't have any proof if TS4 is dying or if it sold/sells badly. We also don't have any real proof that it does well. ( Aside from them still producing content, so it must do well enough to create a good revenue )

    Personally I have no problem with folks wanting to add to the discussion with their own opposing views. Makes for healthy debate. What I tend to try and ignore though are the all or nothing ultimatums. With some posters it tends to become routine "show me the impossible or your argument is invalid!" Which to me, well it is just silly. And I didn't mean to single out any one poster, it isn't exactly an uncommon tactic around these parts, so my apologies if anyone feels they need them.

    If someone disagrees with me and wants to say so, by all means feel free. Just don't be ridiculous about it. ;)

    ....And yet it seems to be happening. I've no idea if Sims 5 is currently something EA plans on making or not, but I do know this game feels horrendously underfunded currently. I've no idea why or how, but if it's something I've learned with experience...? Titles, positions of power, qualifications...? Worthless. Your qualifications are in your day-to-day actions and performance, not in a title or a piece of paper. And whoever is making the decision to neglect/underfund this franchise is seriously underqualified as I see it.

    Certainly feels that way. As for TS5 it depends on what you want to take from the guru's. They say they aren't even talking about TS5 yet. Is that just PR speak because they aren't allowed to talk about it? That certainly wouldn't be unusual as we are no where near a point I would be expecting to hear about TS5, but they seem rather adamant about it.

    If they truly haven't begun any discussion yet about TS5 then it isn't happening. Once TS4 released typically you would have some group already starting the next iteration. These games don't just come together in a year or two. People should be reviewing TS4, what worked what didn't, what to keep what to toss. People should be high level conceptualizing TS5 what they want the game to be about, people should be working on the next engine (they need a new one), do they revive an old one, look outside for a new one, build a new one from scratch? We are 2 years out already they would need to be well past starting work on the engine actually, training the core dev's on how to work with it and teaching content devs how to implement content with it. Artists should be coming up with concept art, figuring out what the new sims are going to look like, what the new worlds will look like, etc. They should already be figuring out what new gameplay concepts they want to implement (like emotions was the 'new' thing for TS4), analysts would be designing and figuring out requirements for implementing that.

    Point is there is a lot of work to do long before they ever start talking about it publicly. So are they just not talking about it to us yet or are they just not talking about it at all?
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited November 2016
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Thank you. My first thought when reading that post. People can talk until they're blue in the face but until I see some real evidence that Sims 4 is dying I'll just view it as wishful thinking.

    want to give evidence that it's doing good then? Half a page is even speculating that they never even reached 5 million copies sold
    Pretty much there isn't evidence either way so both parties could argue until "they are blue in the face" without any success. Much like many topics on forums actually. Not a lot of evidence regarding many things of the Sims 4. It's a mystery game with a mystery vision.
    its-a-mystery-500x325.jpg

    Now we need a Sherlock to solve the case.
    med.jpg?1407545753978

    As far as sales figures, we just have @SimGuruDrake's word on the pin being speculation. So until further actual evidence is shared, as an accounting grad I can't take sales speculations as fact. Hypothetically if I were to do the books and they just shared that without the figures, I couldn't do their financial statements for them without those figures. I do have a friend who has done accounting for gaming and he says games go into one pool in a company, so hard to separate game titles. I'm guessing it is the same with EA, but that is just me speculating. All in all it doesn't matter to me as a customer how well the Sims 4 is doing. It is either developed or not and I don't have a say either way like I didn't with SimCity either. Companies decide which products they sell or don't sell. All we can do is provide feedback on whether we like that said product or not but even that is an optional choice.
    Post edited by Scobre on
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »

    Actually EA speaks pretty freely to investors about the money their games make - just they almost never mention Sims 4 anymore. Usually when they stop mentioning one of their main games usually because they are not meeting expectations - and it has been quite some time since they mentioned Sims 4 actually (at least a year if not longer). Here's the latest report - see for yourself - They come out every new quarter.

    http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/3230373073x0x915011/461669C0-8E76-4E66-8372-FF2E27A5D2CB/Q2_FY17_Prepared_Remarks.pdf
    At least a Sims title was mentioned somewhere. ;)
    "Our deep roster of live services on mobile including The Sims FreePlay, SimCity BuildIt
    and Real Racing 3 continue to deliver long-lasting entertainment."

    Yay congrats to the Sims Freeplay team.

    This was interesting,
    "Subscriptions, advertising, and other digital purchases contributed $83 million to net
    sales, flat year on year. Strong growth in EA Access and Origin Access were offset by
    decline in revenue from some older titles."

    Just curious about what those older titles are. I'm curious about how PVZ 2 is doing as well. Sorry this type of stuff is like candy to me. I love reading it given my background in accounting.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • HIFreeBirdIHHIFreeBirdIH Posts: 1,410 Member
    How did this thread topic change to EA sales are dropping? No offense but if EA's sales are dropping enough you will know it. They will stop making anything more for this game and shelf it.

    Because if anybody says anything that says "it's really not as bad as you say it is guys" then a million people will jump on them, saying to back up their claim while also saying that the game is failing without any evidence prior. Then calling the person a hypocrite, attempting to chase them off the forum so that the narrative of "failing game, will kill series" and "company terrible, consumers terrible victims, always in the right" will be undisturbed and so that it will continue throughout the internet until it becomes gospel truth.
    Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
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  • kremesch73kremesch73 Posts: 10,474 Member
    edited November 2016
    Oh wow. I actually had to go back and read the topic because I forgot what the heck I was reading.

    @luthienrising I'm sorry. I disagree with nearly everything you say, but this time around. Well. I can't say I'm on anyone's side. Elitism is just as bad as a bad game.

    And I'm seeing it from both sides in this topic.
    Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
  • halimali1980halimali1980 Posts: 8,246 Member
    edited November 2016
    Some nice discussion here guys.
    I have to add one more thing regarding the sales of PC games and that it is in the decline due to competition by consoles.

    A PC game has to be exceptionally well made and PC exclusive to make great sale figures. Nowadays most AAA PC games get ported to consoles and many games are developed for both PC and consoles.

    For example GTA V and Fallout 4 would have been the Top PC selling games if they were PC exclusives only. An excellent well made game like the witcher 3 became a huge hit and got excellent sales figure but 70% from that sale came from console and 30% from PC.

    You may be onto something.

    Do some googling and you'll notice something: ALL studies, from the one referencing Sims 4 to the one I linked, cite "NPD charts" as their source. If anyone can find the raw NPD chart data, I'd welcome that, cause that seems to be the only definitive way to find any degree of answer for this discussion. I've googled but I've had no such luck.

    I did find this though. And this is rather dated and smaller scale, but still relevant.

    With the first link, they bother to break down the charts in terms of sales in Oceania. You'll notice that amongst overall stats, Sims 4 is never spoken. For PC-only stats, suddenly it is indeed near the top. What we could be seeing is that when you filter out all other sales and do PC only, Sims 4 gets catapulted towards the top. This is likely because it has a handicap advantage in the sense it's sales are not divided up amongst various consoles like it's competitors, and instead it is using it's complete sales figures to compete with titles that are otherwise dividing their sales figures amongst several consoles.

    The latter link, I included solely because it's the only relevant result I got while googling "NPD video game sales charts sims 4," and the only one that used any info to try and deduce just how much Sims 4 sold, albeit that only tells us Sims 4's launch was very, VERY weak, but doesn't extend past the launch.

    If someone knows how to find NPD sales charts as raw data rather than quoted, then that may be the best way to get ACTUAL answers. As it stands, the info we have can't make sense; the PC sales from the ESA chart puts Sims 4 at #1, which may very well be the case, but another stat claims GTAV sold ~3.8 million PC copies the same year, yet ESA ranks GTAV at #6. This makes no sense given that we know Sims 4 hasn't sold 5 million copies, so obviously these publications are filtering down data based on specifications (PC only, retail only), and unless we have the raw data ourselves, the studies are (for whatever reason) all filtering down the info to only provide us with very specific views of sales.

    Based on what we can reasonably confirm, I would guess Sims 4 sold 1.5 million copies in 2015, as this would be nothing to sneeze at, would put it just ahead of Fallout 4's PC sales (1.2mil, this number seems reliable as it's cited repeatedly; my source I linked earlier is an outlier), but if you assume a rather steady sale rate for Sims 4, then it would currently be at about 2.5mil to 3mil units sold, which again aligns with the fact that we know it's below 5mil. It puts the sales within a reasonable range that is both not abysmal but also rather low comparatively to past titles, as if this rate continues, it'll just barely be able to compete with Sims 2, which has 6 million copies sold.

    Yep I agree here.
    The PC market is in decline. However you need a really good PC exclusive game to compete in the PC sales but in general PC games won't have a chance competing with console games in charts.

    For example They say that TS4 is the top selling PC game but when you get the overall chart in the US for all top selling games Sims 4 might not be able to make it in the top 25 or even 30!

    This is the chart of best selling games in the USA in 2014. Do you see the sims 4 here or any of TS3 expansions? Nope

    1. Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare (360, XBO, PS4, PS3, PC)
    2. Madden NFL 15 (360, PS4, XBO, PS3)
    3. Destiny (XBO, PS4, 360, PS3)
    4. Grand Theft Auto V (PS4, XBO, 360, PS3)
    5. Minecraft (360, PS3, XBO, PS4)
    6. Super Smash Bros. (3DS, NWU)
    7. NBA 2K15 (PS4, XBO, 360, PS3, PC)
    8. Watch Dogs (PS4, XBO, 360, PS3, PC, NWU)
    9. FIFA 15 (360, PS4, XBO, PS3, Wii, 3DS, PSV)
    10. Call of Duty: Ghosts (360, PS3, XBO, PS4, NWU, PC)

    Another example is how a small PC game made very well can make it big in a short time! Stardew Valley has made so really good sales. It does not need huge marketing because the overwhelming positive word of mouth has done all the marketing for it. The game crossed the 1 million figure in sales in just 2 months of its launch!
    I wonder if TS4 achieved this feet which it should because it comes from a well known franchise, but considering the very negative launch it is doubtful.

    polygon.com/2016/4/13/11423844/stardew-valley-sales-one-million-copies
    Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited November 2016
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    @DeservedCriticism Luthienrising never claimed Sims 4 is selling greatly, she just asked for evidence when someone stated as fact the game sells poorly. That's not hypocrite, that's just asking for a source for a rather blunt statement. If that source is non existent, then there can't be made any factual statements about it. Don't get me wrong, I also think - due to all kind of indirect signs mentioned in this topic - that the game is not doing so well (or at least not as well as the predecessors), but I can't prove it and I can't make factual statements about it (and to be quite frankly I don't care but that's another question). It's completely justified to ask for evidence when someone does make factual statements like that.

    "It's a fact fairies exist."
    "Really? Where's your evidence?"
    "Ha, do you have any evidence they don't exist?"
    "No."
    "You're a hypocrite."

    Sorry, but that's not how it works ;)

    But that much is obvious!!

    That's
    my point. Why did we have to have this huge detour in the discussion to state the obvious?! Everyone here knew that NOBODY has definitive sales numbers, so it should be obvious we are speculating based on circumstantial evidence.

    The whole thing leaves me asking "what was the purpose of asking that question" and I can find no answer. As I said, it's akin to if I went into a thread asking "what do you think the first Stuff Pack of 2017 will be" and started asking people for evidence: it should be obvious everyone is blindly speculating and won't have definitive answers. Asking such a question is nothing but needless confirmation of what SHOULD be obvious.

    I just want a productive discussion that moves forward rather than one that spends time stating the obvious and going in a circle, thus my scrutiny of asking questions without answers and asking them without purpose. It "derails" the topic and it's quite annoying (though again, I actively contributed, and I apologize), so it'd be nice if we could avoid such scenarios again.

    Your analogy is a bit flawed too. I don't feel anyone stated "FAIRIES DEFINITELY EXIST." If they did, I view it as circumstantial; the true intent is "we have evidence heavily implying their existence, though no definitive evidence," someone says "so you don't have evidence," the follow up question is then "no, do you perhaps have evidence opposing our circumstancial evidence?" then comes the refusal to provide or participate. It was a chance to move the discussion further, nothing more.
    I'm not sure everyone here knew that nobody has definitive sales numbers when someone states: "No, but making poor quality product guarantees that you'll see those sales drop. Which is what EA is seeing." Now, I don't want to put down the simmer who wrote that because I can see why she did, a lot of people have a feeling the game isn't doing well and this just seemed like a short cut to express that feeling I can imagine. But nevertheless, when someone states it so factual it simply is justified to ask what that observation is based on exactly.

    Sorry, but that entire argument just seems like one massive failure to understand context. It's...well, annoying. It's a step we could absolutely skip. It's a discussion revolving around semantics instead of revolving around...the topic.

    We could've saved ourselves two pages worth of headache and dead-end discussion if certain statements were just given benefit-of-the-doubt. You and I both read that statement and understand it's context, so why the unneccesary clarity...? That's why I press "what was the purpose of that question," because I feel like had that question been asked in advance, it would've been clear it lacked a "good" answer. (one that contributed to the discussion in a way other than stating the obvious)
    (like the statement "Sims 4 is doing great, it sold 5M copies" can't be part of the argumentstion for that matter)

    This is about the only good that came of it all, because we got "confirmation" the 5Mil copies rumor is just that: a rumor and blatant PR.
    No, this is double standards. If someone would have stated "And Sims 4 is doing great, they sold 5M copies already" the very same things would have happened. People reacting: "Oh really, do you have any evidence to back that up?" In fact there are quite a few occasions where that actually did happen. A few posts after hers in fact, by you: "Has anyone directly confronted a Guru with the question of what the 5mil means?" And to be honest, for me reading through that discussion about sales figures wasn't a waste of time at all thanks to your findings and theories surrounding that 5M button because I actually think you're on to something there. The thing being grey, the strange plumbobs. So to be honest I don't see the problem. If anything Luthienrising's question triggered you into digging into that. I actually like it when discussions develop in such ways, forcing people to rethink and motivate their statements. And everyone here is entitled to defend their side of the story. We're all biased.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,190 Member
    @halimali1980
    Don't forget the PC market is more digitalized than the console market, that's also why you only see console games in the top games. Basically in your top games list any PC sales number is divided by 10, while console sales are only divided by 3.

    But personally I'm glad they aren't turning The Sims into a multiplaform game, I like my PC games :)
  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    edited November 2016
    How did this thread topic change to EA sales are dropping? No offense but if EA's sales are dropping enough you will know it. They will stop making anything more for this game and shelf it.

    Because if anybody says anything that says "it's really not as bad as you say it is guys" then a million people will jump on them, saying to back up their claim while also saying that the game is failing without any evidence prior. Then calling the person a hypocrite, attempting to chase them off the forum so that the narrative of "failing game, will kill series" and "company terrible, consumers terrible victims, always in the right" will be undisturbed and so that it will continue throughout the internet until it becomes gospel truth.

    The sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread. It's sending the thread off topic. That's not what this thread is about. EA is not making their numbers public just like future game play. This thread is about the limited game play and what a Guru had stated. I also stated in a previous post that if EA is loosing that many sales you would know it. The game would no longer be made and they will shelf it. My post you responded to has nothing to do with the total of sales of this game.

    PS @Writin_Reg owns stock in EA and might be able to give you numbers of how sales are doing but it should be discussed elsewhere not to throw this thread off topic
  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    DecafHigh wrote: »
    @DeservedCriticism EA has been secretive about this game from the beginning. They only showed CAS and no game play for the pre-orders of the base game. If the higher ups are not letting the creators talk about the game or reveal things to come in the game you have the choice not to buy until new content is out. If it does not suit your style of game play or you don't feel you have gotten your monies worth, don't buy it. It is sad they are not revealing things they use to in the past but it is what it is. We have no control over it other than our wallets

    I'm not buying it anymore, that's precisely the problem. We are voting with our wallets, and while that's "good," it could also mark a drastic downward slope for Sims 4. I still encourage people to vote with their wallet, it's just I feel most of us do that in hopes of seeing forced improvement, but the way things are looking, it's just going to make things worse. We shouldn't pity buy, and yet the likelihood things won't improve regardless is rather tragic.

    No matter how you view it, what's happened to Sims 4 is a prime example of mismanagement. This was their biggest earning franchise and they neglected it. Using Sims 3 income towards other titles is wise in terms of company productivity, but when your biggest earner is struggling in it's next iteration, you save it. You front the bill to improve it because you definitely want it on your side. That doesn't seem to be happening, which is rather amazing to watch.

    I haven't played the game in over a year. I feel your frustrations with the game however there are people who really do like this game and feel satisfied with what EA has put out for this game so far. These people will continue to buy the game. EA is counting on these people to buy the game.

    I don't think they can improve it. The game is extremely limited on what they can add. It was an online game to begin with and why its probably limited. Their hands are tied. A few pages back someone pointed out the they should have stayed with the old game engine. I agree. The sims 3 was/is massive though it needs fixing.

    Yeah and maybe this answers my questions from above, the game being the leftovers of Olympus perhaps their hands are just tied and they simply can't do much more than what they already are and the devs are just trying to get through till TS5 when they can correct those mistakes. Who knows? If that is the case though they should really stop with the implications and trying to hold TS5 hostage to get us to support TS4.

    No one knows if there will even be a TS5. They can't force anyone to support TS4. It is what it is. Either you like the game or you don't. If you don't like it don't buy it and hope there will be a TS5
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    How did this thread topic change to EA sales are dropping? No offense but if EA's sales are dropping enough you will know it. They will stop making anything more for this game and shelf it.

    Because if anybody says anything that says "it's really not as bad as you say it is guys" then a million people will jump on them, saying to back up their claim while also saying that the game is failing without any evidence prior. Then calling the person a hypocrite, attempting to chase them off the forum so that the narrative of "failing game, will kill series" and "company terrible, consumers terrible victims, always in the right" will be undisturbed and so that it will continue throughout the internet until it becomes gospel truth.

    The sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread. It's sending the thread off topic. That's not what this thread is about. EA is not making their numbers public just like future game play. This thread is about the limited game play and what a Guru had stated. I also stated in a previous post that if EA is loosing that many sales you would know it. The game would no longer be made and they will shelf it. My post you responded to has nothing to do with the total of sales of this game
    I agree sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread (or any thread afaic because it's a non discussion with a lot of guessing and interpreting and at the end of the day it's completely irrelevant how many copies were sold because I'm one of them and I'm hardly an enthousiastic Sims 4 fan), but it wasn't Luthienrising who did that. @mirta000 brought it up.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    How did this thread topic change to EA sales are dropping? No offense but if EA's sales are dropping enough you will know it. They will stop making anything more for this game and shelf it.

    Because if anybody says anything that says "it's really not as bad as you say it is guys" then a million people will jump on them, saying to back up their claim while also saying that the game is failing without any evidence prior. Then calling the person a hypocrite, attempting to chase them off the forum so that the narrative of "failing game, will kill series" and "company terrible, consumers terrible victims, always in the right" will be undisturbed and so that it will continue throughout the internet until it becomes gospel truth.

    The sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread. It's sending the thread off topic. That's not what this thread is about. EA is not making their numbers public just like future game play. This thread is about the limited game play and what a Guru had stated. I also stated in a previous post that if EA is loosing that many sales you would know it. The game would no longer be made and they will shelf it. My post you responded to has nothing to do with the total of sales of this game
    I agree sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread (or any thread afaic because it's a non discussion with a lot of guessing and interpreting and at the end of the day it's completely irrelevant how many copies were sold because I'm one of them and I'm hardly an enthousiastic Sims 4 fan), but it wasn't Luthienrising who did that. @mirta000 brought it up.

    I know @luthienrising did not bring it up.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited November 2016
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    How did this thread topic change to EA sales are dropping? No offense but if EA's sales are dropping enough you will know it. They will stop making anything more for this game and shelf it.

    Because if anybody says anything that says "it's really not as bad as you say it is guys" then a million people will jump on them, saying to back up their claim while also saying that the game is failing without any evidence prior. Then calling the person a hypocrite, attempting to chase them off the forum so that the narrative of "failing game, will kill series" and "company terrible, consumers terrible victims, always in the right" will be undisturbed and so that it will continue throughout the internet until it becomes gospel truth.

    The sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread. It's sending the thread off topic. That's not what this thread is about. EA is not making their numbers public just like future game play. This thread is about the limited game play and what a Guru had stated. I also stated in a previous post that if EA is loosing that many sales you would know it. The game would no longer be made and they will shelf it. My post you responded to has nothing to do with the total of sales of this game
    I agree sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread (or any thread afaic because it's a non discussion with a lot of guessing and interpreting and at the end of the day it's completely irrelevant how many copies were sold because I'm one of them and I'm hardly an enthousiastic Sims 4 fan), but it wasn't Luthienrising who did that. @mirta000 brought it up.

    I know @luthienrising did not bring it up.
    :):mrgreen: (I'm a bit disturbed about the whole 'hypocrite' name calling towards Luthienrising here, think it's not fair in this case; now back on topic again I'd say ;))
    5JZ57S6.png
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    How did this thread topic change to EA sales are dropping? No offense but if EA's sales are dropping enough you will know it. They will stop making anything more for this game and shelf it.

    Because if anybody says anything that says "it's really not as bad as you say it is guys" then a million people will jump on them, saying to back up their claim while also saying that the game is failing without any evidence prior. Then calling the person a hypocrite, attempting to chase them off the forum so that the narrative of "failing game, will kill series" and "company terrible, consumers terrible victims, always in the right" will be undisturbed and so that it will continue throughout the internet until it becomes gospel truth.

    The sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread. It's sending the thread off topic. That's not what this thread is about. EA is not making their numbers public just like future game play. This thread is about the limited game play and what a Guru had stated. I also stated in a previous post that if EA is loosing that many sales you would know it. The game would no longer be made and they will shelf it. My post you responded to has nothing to do with the total of sales of this game
    I agree sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread (or any thread afaic because it's a non discussion with a lot of guessing and interpreting and at the end of the day it's completely irrelevant how many copies were sold because I'm one of them and I'm hardly an enthousiastic Sims 4 fan), but it wasn't Luthienrising who did that. @mirta000 brought it up.
    Sales numbers are important because they are the only thing which EA cares about (even though we don't know them).

    You think that they are irrelevant because you buy the games without being an enthusiastic fan?!?!? But you are more enthusiastic anyway than probably 95% of EA's customers ;)

    This topic is important because otherwise we will ignore the whole reason why EA doesn't care much about the toxic debate here which is that this forum maybe is used by only a thousand simmers while EA instead cares about the one to five million other simmers who don't use the forum at all.

    An example could be my 14 yrs old niece who like to try lots of games and to comment hundreds of topics on Facebook. She tried the Sims Freeplay. But only for one or two weeks and I am sure she tried TS4 too. But she has way too many other activities in her young life to play it much. Casual games and Facebook are the things she prefer in her spare time. But she is still just the type of customer who EA will do anything to motivate to buy more expansions for TS4. But you are still a much more enthusiastic TS4 simmer than she is ;)
  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    How did this thread topic change to EA sales are dropping? No offense but if EA's sales are dropping enough you will know it. They will stop making anything more for this game and shelf it.

    Because if anybody says anything that says "it's really not as bad as you say it is guys" then a million people will jump on them, saying to back up their claim while also saying that the game is failing without any evidence prior. Then calling the person a hypocrite, attempting to chase them off the forum so that the narrative of "failing game, will kill series" and "company terrible, consumers terrible victims, always in the right" will be undisturbed and so that it will continue throughout the internet until it becomes gospel truth.

    The sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread. It's sending the thread off topic. That's not what this thread is about. EA is not making their numbers public just like future game play. This thread is about the limited game play and what a Guru had stated. I also stated in a previous post that if EA is loosing that many sales you would know it. The game would no longer be made and they will shelf it. My post you responded to has nothing to do with the total of sales of this game
    I agree sales issues should not have been brought up in this thread (or any thread afaic because it's a non discussion with a lot of guessing and interpreting and at the end of the day it's completely irrelevant how many copies were sold because I'm one of them and I'm hardly an enthousiastic Sims 4 fan), but it wasn't Luthienrising who did that. @mirta000 brought it up.
    Sales numbers are important because they are the only thing which EA cares about (even though we don't know them).

    You think that they are irrelevant because you buy the games without being an enthusiastic fan?!?!? But you are more enthusiastic anyway than probably 95% of EA's customers ;)

    This topic is important because otherwise we will ignore the whole reason why EA doesn't care much about the toxic debate here which is that this forum maybe is used by only a thousand simmers while EA instead cares about the one to five million other simmers who don't use the forum at all.

    An example could be my 14 yrs old niece who like to try lots of games and to comment hundreds of topics on Facebook. She tried the Sims Freeplay. But only for one or two weeks and I am sure she tried TS4 too. But she has way too many other activities in her young life to play it much. Casual games and Facebook are the things she prefer in her spare time. But she is still just the type of customer who EA will do anything to motivate to buy more expansions for TS4. But you are still a much more enthusiastic TS4 simmer than she is ;)

    Im sorry but you are throwing this thread off topic. Enough already. Your going to get op's thread closed if this does not stop. :s This thread has nothing to do with sales. Take it elsewhere
  • halimali1980halimali1980 Posts: 8,246 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    @halimali1980
    Don't forget the PC market is more digitalized than the console market, that's also why you only see console games in the top games. Basically in your top games list any PC sales number is divided by 10, while console sales are only divided by 3.

    But personally I'm glad they aren't turning The Sims into a multiplaform game, I like my PC games :)

    Yep that makes things more complicated too. For example lately I have been purchasing more and more digital games from the playstation store due to the discount on prices.

    Sims can never be good as it is good on PC. The game needs a mouse and keyboard. The rumors that Sims 5 might be mobile or a console will make things even more worse for the game if that is true.
    Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
    giphy.gif
  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    @halimali1980
    Don't forget the PC market is more digitalized than the console market, that's also why you only see console games in the top games. Basically in your top games list any PC sales number is divided by 10, while console sales are only divided by 3.

    But personally I'm glad they aren't turning The Sims into a multiplaform game, I like my PC games :)

    Yep that makes things more complicated too. For example lately I have been purchasing more and more digital games from the playstation store due to the discount on prices.

    Sims can never be good as it is good on PC. The game needs a mouse and keyboard. The rumors that Sims 5 might be mobile or a console will make things even more worse for the game if that is true.

    The console versions of the sims are never as good as the PC games. They did not do console for this game so I don't know why they would go that route if they make a TS5.

    Sims freeplay is doing well and thats mobile.

    If there is a TS5 and they name it TS5, it should be for PC as a sequel.
  • ParyPary Posts: 6,871 Member

    Some of the interesting stuff I will be putting them in a quote with my comments on them.
    Personally, I just don’t’ think it’s a very interesting object.

    I think this is the crux of the whole issue ( that myself and others have ) with the game.

    The developers don't seem to be making a game for us or what they think we might like. It completely comes across as being tailored to their own likes and interests, and what they seem disinterested in is removed or left out, whether we, the consumers, enjoy it or not, despite the inordinate amount of feedback that has been given to them, now and in the past.

    This is apparently their "vision"
    One which many of us don't share.
    Sims 3 Household Exchange - Share your households!
    PoppySims Archive
    InnaLisa Pose Archive
    Devolution of Sims - a once customisable open world sandbox which has become a DLC Party catalog in a shoebox
    I ♡ Pudding
  • halimali1980halimali1980 Posts: 8,246 Member
    Going back to the subject.

    I think the main problems with Sims 4 are the following (of course this and everything I post is an opinion so plz nobody should come and tell me you post things as facts hence the new clause in my sig):


    1- The game is suffering from a low budget which causes all the other problems
    2- Game is built on a poor engine making further development complex (Might be a result from problem 1 or the result of being the leftover of Olympus.
    3- The team working on the game is short staffed. A good evidence is the new one EP per year norm. And this might be a problem because of the budget again
    4- Priorities are not set to balance between game play and budget but decisions seem to be taken purely on the basis of what is affordable and easier to do.

    All the points can be right or some of them and all can be wrong too, but these are the main problems that I think creating the obstacles in the development of the game. The VERY VERY EXPENSIVE and TOO COMPLEX excuses are coming from all the 4 points I mentioned above.
    Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
    giphy.gif
  • halimali1980halimali1980 Posts: 8,246 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    @halimali1980
    Don't forget the PC market is more digitalized than the console market, that's also why you only see console games in the top games. Basically in your top games list any PC sales number is divided by 10, while console sales are only divided by 3.

    But personally I'm glad they aren't turning The Sims into a multiplaform game, I like my PC games :)

    Yep that makes things more complicated too. For example lately I have been purchasing more and more digital games from the playstation store due to the discount on prices.

    Sims can never be good as it is good on PC. The game needs a mouse and keyboard. The rumors that Sims 5 might be mobile or a console will make things even more worse for the game if that is true.

    The console versions of the sims are never as good as the PC games. They did not do console for this game so I don't know why they would go that route if they make a TS5.

    Sims freeplay is doing well and thats mobile.

    If there is a TS5 and they name it TS5, it should be for PC as a sequel.

    I think they did not do console for this game because either the engine is very complicated and makes life difficult or because the game was not received well on PC so the further watered down version for console would be backlashed even more. Could be because of both. Or could be a reason for budgeting
    Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
    giphy.gif
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