I compare the Sims 4 to going to a favorite restaurant that I am quite familiar with because I have been going there for 16 years and know what to expect - only to find suddenly they decided to change things up - with no good explanations for why they are doing so. As if that is not bad enough, in my view as a long time patron of this particular restaurant, as well as all my many reasons for loving the ambiance of this restaurant in particular, I soon discover even more to my disliking. Instead of me getting that certain meal I actually came there to eat, I find myself endlessly waiting for my meal to be served and in the meantime I keep getting served numerous side dishes, various courses - one after the other; which of course may all be pleasant to look at and even taste scrumptious - the fact remains I am still sitting there waiting for the dinner I had planned on eating to begin with, only to find out they must have eliminated the main course, as they just never bring it nor say they won't be serving it either. Makes you feel pretty deceived.
In that same vein of thought - the meal and main course is "THE Sims". You know the little pixel people these series is ALL ABOUT. The Sims - the mom, the dad, the whole family from infant to grandparents. I don't care which number of the series one picks - the one and most obvious thing that is usually a given in a game called THE SIMS is the Sims - first and foremost. Without the little pixel people you do not even have a game is my point. And for the last 11 plus years of the game the Sims has included all main point life stages of these little characters - so when a life stage and the play surrounding that life stage is missing suddenly from this new rendition of this series - it makes everything about the game seem incomplete.
Unfortunately when many of us have tried to explain this, we get misconstrued as to actually wanting the complete game with all it's bells and whistles - when that is not at all what we have been asking for. Many of us were just first and foremost expecting to have all our little people in the game when the game came out with the basic equipment and play in place with these little people. We never expected the base game to come with everything - even though I am sure some people might have liked to see more in a base game - many of us vets of the game knew that is not the way the Sims games worked and expected the normal eps, sps, and what ever else the studio had in mind - but many of us were more than just a little shocked when for no good reason we can see after 11 years of having all these life stages to get one (the toddler) totally eliminated and another (the teen) made to look just like YA's and adults - never mind act nearly the same. But at least the teen stage was still in the game which seemed to somewhat satisfy some of the Simmers - but to eliminate what some of us consider a major part of our game play was to me anyway rather unthinkable seeing I find I cannot at all even try to enjoy this game with them missing. It is like having a favorite meal and them eliminating that particular part of the main course. You just feel unsatisfied and never happy with the meal no matter how wonderful everything else is.
Really how would anyone enjoy saying going to a pizza or taco restaurant and getting served everything but the pizza or taco you came there for to start with - never mind also getting no upfront declaration, or even any explanation. You simply leave still feeling empty and unhappy.
The problem isn't the teasers, it's the content itself.
There is too much focus on the teasers. When they are released, how they display the upcoming content, what the discussion around them will be be... But all this is doing is shifting discussion away from the real problem, that people aren't happy with the amount, type or timeframe of what's actually being released.
The reason the marketing isn't generating a positive response is because the content it's marketing is dull, insubstantial and not living up to peoples expectations, not because there is an issue with the marketing itself.
Anyone who has seen me knows I'm a defender of The Sims 4 but at this point you're just losing another fan, I'm really disappointed in the amount of secrecy and lack of announcements, even just teaser pictures or an actual Q&A with the forums that actually gives us info would be nice. But we don't get anything, the last GP was in December 2015 and December 2016 is only a few months away. At this point TS3 had already had World Adventures, Ambitions, Late Night, Pets, and Generations out. We only have 2 EPs and like 50 stuff packs nobody really asked for, yeah they're nice, but not that nice if we don't have anything else to go off. Sims Freeplay is getting more updates than us and they're free. Like I said, I've always been a defender of TS4 through thick and thin but at this point I'm feeling cowardice from the team and EA because people aren't happy with what they're doing and they're ashamed to announce anything. I think at this point I'm just done with the game, nothing exciting is being brought to it, and it hurts me to say because I've been a supporter since 2005, and there's a lot more things others and myself would much rather spend our money on.
But thank you @simgurudrake for telling us, it means a lot and I know you're trying your best to give us as much info as allotted.
I completely understand that the community wants news. However, compared to where we were this time last year we have been becoming more open and transparent as much as we are able--we have also informed the community about what paid content to expect within a quarter that way you are more prepared for when there is down time. We've also stated repeatedly that we aren't treating TS4 like it's predecessors with regards to any pattern of releases and we've also introduced Game Packs (which I know are still a thing that players are getting used to.) We also work all in house now rather than having two different studios in two different locations. Things are much more streamlined now than in the past (Graham does a great job of explaining that here: forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/893117/live-service-explained )
Sims Freeplay is a mobile game that works on a Free to Play model, is on a different development schedule, and is a completely different team. They have one type of content that they have to worry about which is updates. We are a PC title that works on three different types of pack content along with engagement features and patches to fix issues. So the comparison is apples to oranges.
We aren't ashamed to announce anything, I've actually been very excited about sharing the stuff we have shown so far and have not hidden my enthusiasm for them from any of you. We would rather do a full reveal of a product when we can continue talking about it from that moment on wards rather than say something and then disappear. An example of this is last year with EP2, there were a lot of conversations in the forums about lack of updates between Gamescom tease reveal and when we could do the full on reveal. Also, and most of this stems from the quarterly teaser reactions, but I'm having trouble understanding the want for a tease with pictures when we already have complaints about the quarterly tease not giving enough information because it is a tease.
What I've said above in no way means that I don't appreciate that everyone wants to know what is coming down the pipeline as far as content, I 100% understand the passion and enthusiasm you have for the game and that it's hard for the community to understand game development and how it works when you aren't actually working in the studio --I know Graham has definitely tried to at least explain the process from the SP side of things. You've already seen this year the hard work that our engagement team has been doing with their free updates and what the SP and GP teams have been doing with their content--know that the EP team is hard at work as well.
Unfortunately, I think you're still missing the point. I understand the issue: whatever EA does, people complain. They announced EP2 early and people complained that they weren’t getting any updates. What EA doesn’t seem to understand, however, is that people are complaining because they are confused. After The Sims 4 was released, EA stated that they would be announcing content pretty close to release. When they announced Get Together well in advance of the release, people were confused. They changed up their communications strategy without telling anyone.
The problem isn’t the strategy…the problem is that they don’t communicate their strategy. It’s constantly changing and always unclear. With the latest seasonal teaser, people were speculating about seasons and generations EPs, because the teaser was vague. It didn’t properly communicate that Backyard Stuff was the only content coming out this season.
We just need to know what’s going on. It’s not that hard. EA just needs to say, “Hey guys! We are officially announcing the theme of EP3! It’s _______. Expect more info in a few months.” If they EA tells fans about an impending news drought in advance, no one will be confused or angry when it arrives. We’ll be expecting it. Ahh, the magic of communication.
But we do know what's going on. Sim Guru Drake has said numerous times that paid content can only be discussed in the quarter in which it will be released. We have had the teaser and paid content releases for the current quarter. The next announcement for paid content will come in the next quarter. The next quarter begins in October. So we know there will be no further information on paid content until October.
We know what's going on in the immediate, we won't get any new news until September, but that tells us nothing about the future of the game beyond the next few months.
During Sims 3's timeframe we knew exactly what to expect. We would get two expansions a year, and each one would have a cohesive theme, include new gameplay and CAS elements, and would add at least one new lifestate to the game. We didn't know this because we were told so explicitly, but because the content was released on a predictable and reliable basis.
But with the Sims 4 we have no clue. Will an expansion be released this year? Will another game pack? If there is an expansion will it even include a new life state? How far can a game pack go? Will anything major be added via patch? We have absolutely no idea because the Sims 4 has been such a mishmash so far when it comes to DLC.
What people want to know are the long term plans for this game.
Well that regarding long term plans I can see for some, but in my case I would just like to know when they will finish the base game - then I might actually care about their long term plans because if the base gets finished properly - perhaps then I might actually be able to play and enjoy the game and all it's additions. I know one thing, with the base game still incomplete for 2 long years they can add the most fab wonderful pack ever created and I will not buy it as I already bought enough packs to know it is futile with the base game as it sits. I have babies still waiting to grow up, families unable to age and develop waiting for the base to be made whole.
It's not right after playing a set way for 11 years to have the rug pulled right out from under you like this. Not right at all.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I'd hardly call that teaser in July a teaser but that's my opinion .I guess a picture thing is better than nothing
Drake said we probebly wouldn't be getting gif teasers anymore.
Just to clarify: the quarterly teasers are still a thing, we just know that a still render with some animations just isn't the right visual to use in the future.
I'd hardly call that teaser in July a teaser but that's my opinion .I guess a picture thing is better than nothing
Drake said we probebly wouldn't be getting gif teasers anymore.
Just to clarify: the quarterly teasers are still a thing, we just know that a still render with some animations just isn't the right visual to use in the future.
Thank you for clarifying. That's what I meant but I didn't word it right.
Anyone who has seen me knows I'm a defender of The Sims 4 but at this point you're just losing another fan, I'm really disappointed in the amount of secrecy and lack of announcements, even just teaser pictures or an actual Q&A with the forums that actually gives us info would be nice. But we don't get anything, the last GP was in December 2015 and December 2016 is only a few months away. At this point TS3 had already had World Adventures, Ambitions, Late Night, Pets, and Generations out. We only have 2 EPs and like 50 stuff packs nobody really asked for, yeah they're nice, but not that nice if we don't have anything else to go off. Sims Freeplay is getting more updates than us and they're free. Like I said, I've always been a defender of TS4 through thick and thin but at this point I'm feeling cowardice from the team and EA because people aren't happy with what they're doing and they're ashamed to announce anything. I think at this point I'm just done with the game, nothing exciting is being brought to it, and it hurts me to say because I've been a supporter since 2005, and there's a lot more things others and myself would much rather spend our money on.
But thank you @simgurudrake for telling us, it means a lot and I know you're trying your best to give us as much info as allotted.
I completely understand that the community wants news. However, compared to where we were this time last year we have been becoming more open and transparent as much as we are able--we have also informed the community about what paid content to expect within a quarter that way you are more prepared for when there is down time. We've also stated repeatedly that we aren't treating TS4 like it's predecessors with regards to any pattern of releases and we've also introduced Game Packs (which I know are still a thing that players are getting used to.) We also work all in house now rather than having two different studios in two different locations. Things are much more streamlined now than in the past (Graham does a great job of explaining that here: forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/893117/live-service-explained )
Sims Freeplay is a mobile game that works on a Free to Play model, is on a different development schedule, and is a completely different team. They have one type of content that they have to worry about which is updates. We are a PC title that works on three different types of pack content along with engagement features and patches to fix issues. So the comparison is apples to oranges.
We aren't ashamed to announce anything, I've actually been very excited about sharing the stuff we have shown so far and have not hidden my enthusiasm for them from any of you. We would rather do a full reveal of a product when we can continue talking about it from that moment on wards rather than say something and then disappear. An example of this is last year with EP2, there were a lot of conversations in the forums about lack of updates between Gamescom tease reveal and when we could do the full on reveal. Also, and most of this stems from the quarterly teaser reactions, but I'm having trouble understanding the want for a tease with pictures when we already have complaints about the quarterly tease not giving enough information because it is a tease.
What I've said above in no way means that I don't appreciate that everyone wants to know what is coming down the pipeline as far as content, I 100% understand the passion and enthusiasm you have for the game and that it's hard for the community to understand game development and how it works when you aren't actually working in the studio --I know Graham has definitely tried to at least explain the process from the SP side of things. You've already seen this year the hard work that our engagement team has been doing with their free updates and what the SP and GP teams have been doing with their content--know that the EP team is hard at work as well.
Unfortunately, I think you're still missing the point. I understand the issue: whatever EA does, people complain. They announced EP2 early and people complained that they weren’t getting any updates. What EA doesn’t seem to understand, however, is that people are complaining because they are confused. After The Sims 4 was released, EA stated that they would be announcing content pretty close to release. When they announced Get Together well in advance of the release, people were confused. They changed up their communications strategy without telling anyone.
The problem isn’t the strategy…the problem is that they don’t communicate their strategy. It’s constantly changing and always unclear. With the latest seasonal teaser, people were speculating about seasons and generations EPs, because the teaser was vague. It didn’t properly communicate that Backyard Stuff was the only content coming out this season.
We just need to know what’s going on. It’s not that hard. EA just needs to say, “Hey guys! We are officially announcing the theme of EP3! It’s _______. Expect more info in a few months.” If they EA tells fans about an impending news drought in advance, no one will be confused or angry when it arrives. We’ll be expecting it. Ahh, the magic of communication.
I see things much more clearly than I think most are giving me credit for and I'll use your scenario as an example:
If we said that statement in April then how many of you would care about the Game Pack announcement/release? The Stuff Pack announcements/releases? The CAS Update? Our feed would be filled with people only asking when we would be providing more information about the EP we teased even more so than they do now--completely ignoring the hard work of the other teams whose content just released. That is a disservice to the people who are also working hard on their teams to create content for the community to enjoy just to pacify those who don't want to wait to learn about things when they are ready.
You wanted to know about the EPs earlier so we gave you that last year with EP2 and the community wasn't satisfied with having to wait for information. You asked for the teasers to prepare yourselves for upcoming content and so you could prepare for times when there wouldn't be as many paid releases--we give you that and you still say we haven't communicated. I'm aware some may say that I'm trying to place blame and I'm not, I'm showing you how in order for communication to work others have to be willing to listen. We listen and we try to communicate in the way you ask within the boundaries we have to work in and it still is taken as us not listening or us not being open.
A couple examples: We stated in clear blue text "New Stuff Pack coming to The Sims 4." << how was that in anyway stating that there was going to be an EP coming this quarter much less any other paid content when it was the only paid content shown? We tell you repeatedly that there is no pattern for how we release content--you try and say that X type of content is coming this month because of a pattern we had already told you didn't exist.
As far as a "news drought" that isn't really an accurate statement considering we have patches every month that have added in challenges, free content, and fixes.
It's a news drought in the sense that a large portion of fans from every platform (I know because I look at all of them, I don't have accounts everywhere but you don't need one to visit Reddit or the The Sims' Twitter or Facebook) have been asking the same question and we have not gotten a straightforward answer yet: Will toddlers be in TS4 yes or no?
This is where the EA TS4 cash cow meme comes from... it just feels like you won't answer because it's a no, and you want to keep teasing us so we'll be hopeful and continue to buy more content.
Anyone who has seen me knows I'm a defender of The Sims 4 but at this point you're just losing another fan, I'm really disappointed in the amount of secrecy and lack of announcements, even just teaser pictures or an actual Q&A with the forums that actually gives us info would be nice. But we don't get anything, the last GP was in December 2015 and December 2016 is only a few months away. At this point TS3 had already had World Adventures, Ambitions, Late Night, Pets, and Generations out. We only have 2 EPs and like 50 stuff packs nobody really asked for, yeah they're nice, but not that nice if we don't have anything else to go off. Sims Freeplay is getting more updates than us and they're free. Like I said, I've always been a defender of TS4 through thick and thin but at this point I'm feeling cowardice from the team and EA because people aren't happy with what they're doing and they're ashamed to announce anything. I think at this point I'm just done with the game, nothing exciting is being brought to it, and it hurts me to say because I've been a supporter since 2005, and there's a lot more things others and myself would much rather spend our money on.
But thank you @simgurudrake for telling us, it means a lot and I know you're trying your best to give us as much info as allotted.
I completely understand that the community wants news. However, compared to where we were this time last year we have been becoming more open and transparent as much as we are able--we have also informed the community about what paid content to expect within a quarter that way you are more prepared for when there is down time. We've also stated repeatedly that we aren't treating TS4 like it's predecessors with regards to any pattern of releases and we've also introduced Game Packs (which I know are still a thing that players are getting used to.) We also work all in house now rather than having two different studios in two different locations. Things are much more streamlined now than in the past (Graham does a great job of explaining that here: forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/893117/live-service-explained )
Sims Freeplay is a mobile game that works on a Free to Play model, is on a different development schedule, and is a completely different team. They have one type of content that they have to worry about which is updates. We are a PC title that works on three different types of pack content along with engagement features and patches to fix issues. So the comparison is apples to oranges.
We aren't ashamed to announce anything, I've actually been very excited about sharing the stuff we have shown so far and have not hidden my enthusiasm for them from any of you. We would rather do a full reveal of a product when we can continue talking about it from that moment on wards rather than say something and then disappear. An example of this is last year with EP2, there were a lot of conversations in the forums about lack of updates between Gamescom tease reveal and when we could do the full on reveal. Also, and most of this stems from the quarterly teaser reactions, but I'm having trouble understanding the want for a tease with pictures when we already have complaints about the quarterly tease not giving enough information because it is a tease.
What I've said above in no way means that I don't appreciate that everyone wants to know what is coming down the pipeline as far as content, I 100% understand the passion and enthusiasm you have for the game and that it's hard for the community to understand game development and how it works when you aren't actually working in the studio --I know Graham has definitely tried to at least explain the process from the SP side of things. You've already seen this year the hard work that our engagement team has been doing with their free updates and what the SP and GP teams have been doing with their content--know that the EP team is hard at work as well.
Unfortunately, I think you're still missing the point. I understand the issue: whatever EA does, people complain. They announced EP2 early and people complained that they weren’t getting any updates. What EA doesn’t seem to understand, however, is that people are complaining because they are confused. After The Sims 4 was released, EA stated that they would be announcing content pretty close to release. When they announced Get Together well in advance of the release, people were confused. They changed up their communications strategy without telling anyone.
The problem isn’t the strategy…the problem is that they don’t communicate their strategy. It’s constantly changing and always unclear. With the latest seasonal teaser, people were speculating about seasons and generations EPs, because the teaser was vague. It didn’t properly communicate that Backyard Stuff was the only content coming out this season.
We just need to know what’s going on. It’s not that hard. EA just needs to say, “Hey guys! We are officially announcing the theme of EP3! It’s _______. Expect more info in a few months.” If they EA tells fans about an impending news drought in advance, no one will be confused or angry when it arrives. We’ll be expecting it. Ahh, the magic of communication.
I see things much more clearly than I think most are giving me credit for and I'll use your scenario as an example:
If we said that statement in April then how many of you would care about the Game Pack announcement/release? The Stuff Pack announcements/releases? The CAS Update? Our feed would be filled with people only asking when we would be providing more information about the EP we teased even more so than they do now--completely ignoring the hard work of the other teams whose content just released. That is a disservice to the people who are also working hard on their teams to create content for the community to enjoy just to pacify those who don't want to wait to learn about things when they are ready.
You wanted to know about the EPs earlier so we gave you that last year with EP2 and the community wasn't satisfied with having to wait for information. You asked for the teasers to prepare yourselves for upcoming content and so you could prepare for times when there wouldn't be as many paid releases--we give you that and you still say we haven't communicated. I'm aware some may say that I'm trying to place blame and I'm not, I'm showing you how in order for communication to work others have to be willing to listen. We listen and we try to communicate in the way you ask within the boundaries we have to work in and it still is taken as us not listening or us not being open.
A couple examples: We stated in clear blue text "New Stuff Pack coming to The Sims 4." << how was that in anyway stating that there was going to be an EP coming this quarter much less any other paid content when it was the only paid content shown? We tell you repeatedly that there is no pattern for how we release content--you try and say that X type of content is coming this month because of a pattern we had already told you didn't exist.
As far as a "news drought" that isn't really an accurate statement considering we have patches every month that have added in challenges, free content, and fixes.
It's a news drought in the sense that a large portion of fans from every platform (I know because I look at all of them, I don't have accounts everywhere but you don't need one to visit Reddit or the The Sims' Twitter or Facebook) have been asking the same question and we have not gotten a straightforward answer yet: Will toddlers be in TS4 yes or no?
This is where the EA TS4 cash cow meme comes from... it just feels like you won't answer because it's a no, and you want to keep teasing us so we'll be hopeful and continue to buy more content.
However, we will have a closed panel + Q&A with Rachel and Lyndsay about the Sims Franchise. If you’re going to be at Gamescom let us know! We’d love to meet you )
I would love to go to the panel. How can I go about getting a spot for me and one other person?
Well that regarding long term plans I can see for some, but in my case I would just like to know when they will finish the base game - then I might actually care about their long term plans because if the base gets finished properly - perhaps then I might actually be able to play and enjoy the game and all it's additions. I know one thing, with the base game still incomplete for 2 long years they can add the most fab wonderful pack ever created and I will not buy it as I already bought enough packs to know it is futile with the base game as it sits. I have babies still waiting to grow up, families unable to age and develop waiting for the base to be made whole.
It's not right after playing a set way for 11 years to have the rug pulled right out from under you like this. Not right at all.
I think they said they would have booths set up to showcase some of their other games to players, but I wouldn't expect to see anything Sims related. I will be watching, but it will be to look for info from Square Enix about the Final Fantasy VII remake.
The fans are not upset with the gurus or the development teams. Let's get that out there first. We are upset the base game was woefully incomplete and a life stage went missing just before the base game was released. Fast forward to today, and we are still waiting for news about toddlers, along with waiting for some long-standing bugs to be fixed, and more complex game play that should have been included in the base game. Too much is still missing from TS4. Too much is still being asked for by the fans that EA is ignoring and not talking about. TS4 feels incomplete. My sincere apologies to the gurus and teams, but that is the truth. I am not looking to hurt anyone's feelings or cast doubt on the teams' talents or capabilities. This mess belongs solely to EA as they scramble to save a game that was more or less scrapped then rebuilt when they realized an on line Sims game was not what the fans wanted.
As much as I am enjoying TS4, I must admit if I had known then what I know now, I probably would have passed on purchasing TS4 for another two years. But when I returned to TS4 EPs and game packs were being released on a somewhat regular basis. Now the release of a third EP has stalled. And the only news we have received so far is the fact SimGuruDrake is excited about it and thinks we will like it. As I have said before: it's not easy getting hyped about something we know absolutely nothing about. Her excitement means nothing without something that shows us why we should climb aboard the hype train.
I have praised the teams for the latest content that has been released. Kids Room and Backyard Stuff were excellent packs. But the two of them do not measure up to having a full EP after nearly a year of waiting for a new EP to be released or even whispered about. I haven't been this upset with EA since the SECURom kerfuffle. And I very nearly quit the Sims series because of it. So, having been truly upset with EA once already, mad enough to pull my support of The Sims franchise, it is extremely distressing to feel the same way now. That all happened a long time ago but here we are again, EA. The sad part in this is the fact EA probably doesn't care who supports the game or who does not. They gutted TS4's base game and kept the toddler bomb under wraps until it couldn't be contained any longer. A life stage that is an integral part of family play was just written off. The Family Tree is still not functioning for some players, relationship culling and decay that many, many players dislike intensely, bugs from Dine Out are still in need of attention. I am sure there are more issues in need of attention than the ones I mentioned.
If there is no new EP on our horizon, then we have the right to ask when we can expect these bugs to be fixed. I realize how much work game development is. I know what goes into it and how hard it can be when one tiny thing throws everything into chaos. The teams have my sympathy. They are dealing with everything as best they can. But I have a feeling TS4 will probably be the last Sims game I will ever buy. I cannot give my support to a corporation that just doesn't seem to care about the players.
Anyone who has seen me knows I'm a defender of The Sims 4 but at this point you're just losing another fan, I'm really disappointed in the amount of secrecy and lack of announcements, even just teaser pictures or an actual Q&A with the forums that actually gives us info would be nice. But we don't get anything, the last GP was in December 2015 and December 2016 is only a few months away. At this point TS3 had already had World Adventures, Ambitions, Late Night, Pets, and Generations out. We only have 2 EPs and like 50 stuff packs nobody really asked for, yeah they're nice, but not that nice if we don't have anything else to go off. Sims Freeplay is getting more updates than us and they're free. Like I said, I've always been a defender of TS4 through thick and thin but at this point I'm feeling cowardice from the team and EA because people aren't happy with what they're doing and they're ashamed to announce anything. I think at this point I'm just done with the game, nothing exciting is being brought to it, and it hurts me to say because I've been a supporter since 2005, and there's a lot more things others and myself would much rather spend our money on.
But thank you @simgurudrake for telling us, it means a lot and I know you're trying your best to give us as much info as allotted.
I completely understand that the community wants news. However, compared to where we were this time last year we have been becoming more open and transparent as much as we are able--we have also informed the community about what paid content to expect within a quarter that way you are more prepared for when there is down time. We've also stated repeatedly that we aren't treating TS4 like it's predecessors with regards to any pattern of releases and we've also introduced Game Packs (which I know are still a thing that players are getting used to.) We also work all in house now rather than having two different studios in two different locations. Things are much more streamlined now than in the past (Graham does a great job of explaining that here: forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/893117/live-service-explained )
Sims Freeplay is a mobile game that works on a Free to Play model, is on a different development schedule, and is a completely different team. They have one type of content that they have to worry about which is updates. We are a PC title that works on three different types of pack content along with engagement features and patches to fix issues. So the comparison is apples to oranges.
We aren't ashamed to announce anything, I've actually been very excited about sharing the stuff we have shown so far and have not hidden my enthusiasm for them from any of you. We would rather do a full reveal of a product when we can continue talking about it from that moment on wards rather than say something and then disappear. An example of this is last year with EP2, there were a lot of conversations in the forums about lack of updates between Gamescom tease reveal and when we could do the full on reveal. Also, and most of this stems from the quarterly teaser reactions, but I'm having trouble understanding the want for a tease with pictures when we already have complaints about the quarterly tease not giving enough information because it is a tease.
What I've said above in no way means that I don't appreciate that everyone wants to know what is coming down the pipeline as far as content, I 100% understand the passion and enthusiasm you have for the game and that it's hard for the community to understand game development and how it works when you aren't actually working in the studio --I know Graham has definitely tried to at least explain the process from the SP side of things. You've already seen this year the hard work that our engagement team has been doing with their free updates and what the SP and GP teams have been doing with their content--know that the EP team is hard at work as well.
Unfortunately, I think you're still missing the point. I understand the issue: whatever EA does, people complain. They announced EP2 early and people complained that they weren’t getting any updates. What EA doesn’t seem to understand, however, is that people are complaining because they are confused. After The Sims 4 was released, EA stated that they would be announcing content pretty close to release. When they announced Get Together well in advance of the release, people were confused. They changed up their communications strategy without telling anyone.
The problem isn’t the strategy…the problem is that they don’t communicate their strategy. It’s constantly changing and always unclear. With the latest seasonal teaser, people were speculating about seasons and generations EPs, because the teaser was vague. It didn’t properly communicate that Backyard Stuff was the only content coming out this season.
We just need to know what’s going on. It’s not that hard. EA just needs to say, “Hey guys! We are officially announcing the theme of EP3! It’s _______. Expect more info in a few months.” If they EA tells fans about an impending news drought in advance, no one will be confused or angry when it arrives. We’ll be expecting it. Ahh, the magic of communication.
I see things much more clearly than I think most are giving me credit for and I'll use your scenario as an example:
If we said that statement in April then how many of you would care about the Game Pack announcement/release? The Stuff Pack announcements/releases? The CAS Update? Our feed would be filled with people only asking when we would be providing more information about the EP we teased even more so than they do now--completely ignoring the hard work of the other teams whose content just released. That is a disservice to the people who are also working hard on their teams to create content for the community to enjoy just to pacify those who don't want to wait to learn about things when they are ready.
You wanted to know about the EPs earlier so we gave you that last year with EP2 and the community wasn't satisfied with having to wait for information. You asked for the teasers to prepare yourselves for upcoming content and so you could prepare for times when there wouldn't be as many paid releases--we give you that and you still say we haven't communicated. I'm aware some may say that I'm trying to place blame and I'm not, I'm showing you how in order for communication to work others have to be willing to listen. We listen and we try to communicate in the way you ask within the boundaries we have to work in and it still is taken as us not listening or us not being open.
A couple examples: We stated in clear blue text "New Stuff Pack coming to The Sims 4." << how was that in anyway stating that there was going to be an EP coming this quarter much less any other paid content when it was the only paid content shown? We tell you repeatedly that there is no pattern for how we release content--you try and say that X type of content is coming this month because of a pattern we had already told you didn't exist.
As far as a "news drought" that isn't really an accurate statement considering we have patches every month that have added in challenges, free content, and fixes.
The ignoring part is how the community is feeling since day one. We have been asking for so many VITAL stuff and still nothing. And yet we still don't know what the next EP is, so we still do not know if EA will finally after more than TWO years add what the community is asking for the most. Yes, I will just say it: Toddlers. No, I am not saying everyone wants Toddlers, but I am confident enough to say that Toddlers IS in fact the most requested thing since day one. It's everywhere, Twitter, Facebook, LiveStreams, Forums, Articles on gaming websites, it's everywhere.
How many times do we have to communicate with the team what we want? Yet we get random stuff, which makes a lot of us feel ignored. TWO years of asking, waiting, silence, vague responses (if any response at all).
This game is almost going to hit it's TWO years mark, and we are still left in the dark about the most vital issues. This game has issues, there is no one can deny that, but more important is: what is the team going to do with it? Will they leave us hanging until it's ''game over'' (years down the line)? or will they show us with EP03 that in fact they really do care, and it's going to be the thing we have been waiting for since day one?
I remember SimGuruRyan saying one thing:
And while we recognize that some of you will be disappointed that pools and toddlers won’t be available when The Sims 4 Base Game launches in September, you should know that we’re building an incredibly strong foundation that is capable of fulfilling every one of your desires in the years to come. The future of The Sims 4 is bright!
Well, still wishing, still waiting TWO years later.
I totally agree with @Scobre. I have never once said anything on this forum regarding released content and communication from the guru's, but I'm at my whits end and this is exactly how I feel too
I am sure the next stuff pack will be called "Toddlers and Dogs in the Rain Stuff"
It's more likely that they'll call it "EA has finally learned their marketing lesson and listened to us family players stuff."
"Video gaming began as an engineer's hobby and a means of creative expression for those of higher technical inclination. It is expected that those who are capable of higher engineering-related achievements will see value, in electronic entertainment products, where others see failure." -Sasquatch
@SimGuruDrake - I want to weigh in a little bit about the frustrations with communication many players are feeling. Yes, a lot of it is to do with upcoming content, and players wanting to know more because they feel unhappy with the direction the game has been going in and want some peace of mind.
But I think there is actually a worse communication problem with the way TS4 has been handled, and that's the patch notes. We get now that TS4 is using a "live service model" after Graham's posts, which means that the game is much more fluid than any other Sims game has been in the past. But the flip side of this which the team seems to be ignoring is that since the start of TS4, mechanics have been introduced into the game that damage the game, and they have come unannounced. I'm not talking about bugs - while TS4 has a lot of them (too many, I think), a certain amount of bugs are natural when the team is adding so much content so quickly. What I'm talking about are the mechanics that are added intentionally to "enhance performance", such as culling, relationship culling, and inactive played relationship decay. These mechanics were not in the game that we paid for at launch. But the worst part of it is that these features are never announced in patch notes. The patch notes, which in the past (for TS3) were a no-frills account of everything that had been added or changed in the game, now read in many ways as another piece of PR. We now have to sift through all of the gags to find the actual content, and even then, some of the content is left out. Why trade jokes for an honest communication of what has been added in a patch? Especially when these mechanics will damage players' games - since we are not informed about these changes in the patch notes, we naïvely venture forth into our beloved stories, only to find our Sims and their relationships vanishing. Too late comes the announcement from a Guru that the new mechanic is working as intended. The Sims, their relationships, and the stories we have spent hours lovingly crafting, are already gone.
Quietly adding mechanics that break down the core of most Simmers' gameplay - the actual Sims themselves - reeks of cowardice. This is not honest communication. Do you think we won't notice when our Sims start disappearing? Are you surprised when forums and help sites experience a panicked flood of Simmers trying to figure out what's happening to their games? What it feels like to the players is that the team is ashamed that their game cannot handle sustained basic gameplay over a long period in one save file, so they omit from their patch notes surreptitious changes that are introduced to ease the burden core gameplay puts on the game's performance (on low-end computers). Perhaps there is a very different motivation for leaving out the announcement of these features from the patch notes - but if there is, it hasn't been communicated to us.
That, above all, is what I see as the current failure of the live service system and its communication strategy. The live service model could work great, but so far, it's played out so that the team is often singing a very different tune to what has actually been put into the game.
An example of this is last year with EP2, there were a lot of conversations in the forums about lack of updates between Gamescom tease reveal and when we could do the full on reveal. Also, and most of this stems from the quarterly teaser reactions, but I'm having trouble understanding the want for a tease with pictures when we already have complaints about the quarterly tease not giving enough information because it is a tease.
I liked this better than now actually. Could you say us at least the name of the new AddOn in 1-2 weeks with a little Teaser like for the Accessoire Packs? This would be so, so, SO awesome. It makes me feel sick waiting so long for new news, without even a hint of something new. Could you at least say that you are working on something?
Sorry had to fix the way your comment was quoted in your original post.
As for whether we are working on something: We are never not working on something. Development is always happening, there is really no such thing as "down time" for us. Between SPs, GPs, EPs, Free Engagement Content, Patches there is always something going on. So the ultimate answer to your question is: Yes, things are being worked on.
This is such exciting news and makes me so happy to know that things are constantly being worked on, I don't know why people are still complaining because we are getting much more feedback than we did at the start of this series and I like it and the direction. It is affordable and prepares us for what is ahead once you can maintain the patience which is hard
I'd hardly call that teaser in July a teaser but that's my opinion .I guess a picture thing is better than nothing
Drake said we probebly wouldn't be getting gif teasers anymore.
Just to clarify: the quarterly teasers are still a thing, we just know that a still render with some animations just isn't the right visual to use in the future.
Comments
Drake said we probebly wouldn't be getting gif teasers anymore.
There is too much focus on the teasers. When they are released, how they display the upcoming content, what the discussion around them will be be... But all this is doing is shifting discussion away from the real problem, that people aren't happy with the amount, type or timeframe of what's actually being released.
The reason the marketing isn't generating a positive response is because the content it's marketing is dull, insubstantial and not living up to peoples expectations, not because there is an issue with the marketing itself.
We know what's going on in the immediate, we won't get any new news until September, but that tells us nothing about the future of the game beyond the next few months.
During Sims 3's timeframe we knew exactly what to expect. We would get two expansions a year, and each one would have a cohesive theme, include new gameplay and CAS elements, and would add at least one new lifestate to the game. We didn't know this because we were told so explicitly, but because the content was released on a predictable and reliable basis.
But with the Sims 4 we have no clue. Will an expansion be released this year? Will another game pack? If there is an expansion will it even include a new life state? How far can a game pack go? Will anything major be added via patch? We have absolutely no idea because the Sims 4 has been such a mishmash so far when it comes to DLC.
What people want to know are the long term plans for this game.
It's not right after playing a set way for 11 years to have the rug pulled right out from under you like this. Not right at all.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Just to clarify: the quarterly teasers are still a thing, we just know that a still render with some animations just isn't the right visual to use in the future.
Thank you for clarifying. That's what I meant but I didn't word it right.
It's a news drought in the sense that a large portion of fans from every platform (I know because I look at all of them, I don't have accounts everywhere but you don't need one to visit Reddit or the The Sims' Twitter or Facebook) have been asking the same question and we have not gotten a straightforward answer yet: Will toddlers be in TS4 yes or no?
This is where the EA TS4 cash cow meme comes from... it just feels like you won't answer because it's a no, and you want to keep teasing us so we'll be hopeful and continue to buy more content.
They can't discuss toddlers right now.
I would love to go to the panel. How can I go about getting a spot for me and one other person?
Please do not send me PMs/post on my wall if you're looking for help. I can't attend to those. You can find me at AnswerHQ.
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How am I not surprised...
I totally agree 100%
As much as I am enjoying TS4, I must admit if I had known then what I know now, I probably would have passed on purchasing TS4 for another two years. But when I returned to TS4 EPs and game packs were being released on a somewhat regular basis. Now the release of a third EP has stalled. And the only news we have received so far is the fact SimGuruDrake is excited about it and thinks we will like it. As I have said before: it's not easy getting hyped about something we know absolutely nothing about. Her excitement means nothing without something that shows us why we should climb aboard the hype train.
I have praised the teams for the latest content that has been released. Kids Room and Backyard Stuff were excellent packs. But the two of them do not measure up to having a full EP after nearly a year of waiting for a new EP to be released or even whispered about. I haven't been this upset with EA since the SECURom kerfuffle. And I very nearly quit the Sims series because of it. So, having been truly upset with EA once already, mad enough to pull my support of The Sims franchise, it is extremely distressing to feel the same way now. That all happened a long time ago but here we are again, EA. The sad part in this is the fact EA probably doesn't care who supports the game or who does not. They gutted TS4's base game and kept the toddler bomb under wraps until it couldn't be contained any longer. A life stage that is an integral part of family play was just written off. The Family Tree is still not functioning for some players, relationship culling and decay that many, many players dislike intensely, bugs from Dine Out are still in need of attention. I am sure there are more issues in need of attention than the ones I mentioned.
If there is no new EP on our horizon, then we have the right to ask when we can expect these bugs to be fixed. I realize how much work game development is. I know what goes into it and how hard it can be when one tiny thing throws everything into chaos. The teams have my sympathy. They are dealing with everything as best they can. But I have a feeling TS4 will probably be the last Sims game I will ever buy. I cannot give my support to a corporation that just doesn't seem to care about the players.
I totally agree with @Scobre. I have never once said anything on this forum regarding released content and communication from the guru's, but I'm at my whits end and this is exactly how I feel too
It's more likely that they'll call it "EA has finally learned their marketing lesson and listened to us family players stuff."
But I think there is actually a worse communication problem with the way TS4 has been handled, and that's the patch notes. We get now that TS4 is using a "live service model" after Graham's posts, which means that the game is much more fluid than any other Sims game has been in the past. But the flip side of this which the team seems to be ignoring is that since the start of TS4, mechanics have been introduced into the game that damage the game, and they have come unannounced. I'm not talking about bugs - while TS4 has a lot of them (too many, I think), a certain amount of bugs are natural when the team is adding so much content so quickly. What I'm talking about are the mechanics that are added intentionally to "enhance performance", such as culling, relationship culling, and inactive played relationship decay. These mechanics were not in the game that we paid for at launch. But the worst part of it is that these features are never announced in patch notes. The patch notes, which in the past (for TS3) were a no-frills account of everything that had been added or changed in the game, now read in many ways as another piece of PR. We now have to sift through all of the gags to find the actual content, and even then, some of the content is left out. Why trade jokes for an honest communication of what has been added in a patch? Especially when these mechanics will damage players' games - since we are not informed about these changes in the patch notes, we naïvely venture forth into our beloved stories, only to find our Sims and their relationships vanishing. Too late comes the announcement from a Guru that the new mechanic is working as intended. The Sims, their relationships, and the stories we have spent hours lovingly crafting, are already gone.
Quietly adding mechanics that break down the core of most Simmers' gameplay - the actual Sims themselves - reeks of cowardice. This is not honest communication. Do you think we won't notice when our Sims start disappearing? Are you surprised when forums and help sites experience a panicked flood of Simmers trying to figure out what's happening to their games? What it feels like to the players is that the team is ashamed that their game cannot handle sustained basic gameplay over a long period in one save file, so they omit from their patch notes surreptitious changes that are introduced to ease the burden core gameplay puts on the game's performance (on low-end computers). Perhaps there is a very different motivation for leaving out the announcement of these features from the patch notes - but if there is, it hasn't been communicated to us.
That, above all, is what I see as the current failure of the live service system and its communication strategy. The live service model could work great, but so far, it's played out so that the team is often singing a very different tune to what has actually been put into the game.
Add Manage Neighbourhood Options - assign your own Sim to NPC jobs!
The Problems with Death in The Sims 4
Distinguish Elder gameplay with Elder-only reward traits
Filter Rugs by Room Size
This is such exciting news and makes me so happy to know that things are constantly being worked on, I don't know why people are still complaining because we are getting much more feedback than we did at the start of this series and I like it and the direction. It is affordable and prepares us for what is ahead once you can maintain the patience which is hard
Guru gurl is back in the building
That's what so many people have been asking for two years. A yes or no, EA. C'mon, you could answer if you really wanted to.