No thanks. I don't want this stuff in my game for the same reason I don't watch "ripped from the headlines" television. I need a place to escape reality sometimes. Let's be honest, reality in most of the world right now sucks. Who doesn't need a few hours of escapism? I don't mind having death in the game since it is a life simulation and death is part of life, but it's handled lightheartedly and at times comedically, but some of the things people are talking about really can't be addressed that way, not without causing offense to those affected by it anyway. This game ceases to be entertaining if it goes too far into reality because you end up dwelling on things that make you feel sad, or depressed instead of having a way to refocus yourself on something that is lighthearted and uplifting. It starting to seem that there is a segment of the community that is no longer interested in a spoofy, jocular simulation, but would rather have a darker and more gritty life duplication. No thanks!
Don't get me wrong, I would love more random happenstance in this game, and an amp of the stuff in it that is random like making a bad investment wiping out your cash by at least half, having job performance losses actually have real impact like making harder to regain the ground lost, a decrease in salary, demotions and even job loss. I would love burglars who steal big ticket items forcing you to spend unexpectedly to replace them, unfortunately when they do add this stuff some people complain, & loudly and it gets nerfed i.e. Alien abduction, or weather related deaths, which is why now so many are calling to much darker situations to be added. Because drama is a big part of life, and as much as I adore this game, that is where I find it really lacking most of the time.
I can see why EA/Maxis are having to worry about including disabilities. It's not just about physical disability as not all disabilities can be seen and might take the game over the Teen category. Ramps, wheelchairs and canes would be ok as they can be used for elders as a natural addition to the game.
Just think of the difficulty and time involved in designing them too. If it did come about it would probably be the last pack.
I can see why EA/Maxis are having to worry about including disabilities. It's not just about physical disability as not all disabilities can be seen and might take the game over the Teen category. Ramps, wheelchairs and canes would be ok as they can be used for elders as a natural addition to the game.
Just think of the difficulty and time involved in designing them too. If it did come about it would probably be the last pack.
that would be unfair/mean to disabled players-we are always the last people to be consider of. Oh BTW they're would love for those of us who are disabled and want disabilities in the gym to talk to them on twitter.
I think the idea of a sim turning out with a silly trait like clumsy, clingy and even fussy would be a great way to incorporate this, but itd be tough to find the line that says 'you neglected your pregnancy, have a sim with a predetermined trait', would a one time bladder failure or collapse do it? Or would it need to be more regular? This is a good implementation idea, i think. Even adding things like a random chance of a disability once thats implemented would work, rather than choosing. Maybe 5% of sims?
And like @Bettyboop55 said, making it so things pregnant sims do is passed on, like a love of certain foods works well for me! And a chance of a trait or two being passed as well, rather than allowing us to choose everything.
As for disabilities, i want them. I have a chronic illness, being type 1 diabetes, and id love to see food related disorder that makes sims angry if they eat something overly sweet like cake and havent say, done enough exercise to burn it off, or get dazed if their hunger gets too low. Keep it silly and whimsical like thr sims is, but even allowinv customisation in CAS works for me. Or sims who cannot eat a certain food, like food with fish, because they have an allergy, or sims who occasionally just collapse of exhaustion with no warning.
But maybe allowing a toggle, so those of us who want it can have it, as i know a lot of people play to escape their own life, while ill do anything for more depth.
I think the predetermined trait was actually in Sims 2, but that was a long time ago and I might be remembering wrong. I do recall in Sims 3 that if you did a poor job of caring for toddlers they'd age up with a negative trait...or maybe that was also Sims 2.
I think that physical disabilities could wait until the theoretica/mythical Sims 5; there would be a lot of Sims infrastructure required like ramps, lifts, etc. to handle Sims going from Point A to Point B. Mental/emotional disabilities could be handled via traits; I've used cheats/mods to change the traits of my Sims when they age up to Elder, for example I'll change out one of the traits for Erratic to indicate a Sim has gone a bit "dotty" in their old age. Or an Active Sim will become Lazy, or a Neat Sim become a Slob just to show how some people do have personality changes when they get old.
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Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
@master_in_simology and @Bettyboop55
Definitely.
These topics should be handled carefully and professionally. With enough consultation and knowledge on each disability, disease, and birth defect.
Plus, just to clarify, I am not advocating for a separate game that is dedicated to this specific matter.
I am suggesting that we have a sibling franchise that tackles this matter as well as many other mature and heavy matters with great care and humor. I most certainly agree that sometimes laughter can be the best remedy.
So not only will this suggested sibling franchise handle Disabilities, Diseases, and Defects, but also other matters such as Religion, War, The darker side of Politics, Conflicting Opinions and Philosophy, Murder, Miscarriages, and Existential Dread.
Regarding the war thing, I always wondered why Sims offered a Millitary career option. Who exactly is the Sims enemy?
You don't have to have a war to have a military -- it's always good to be prepared just in case. And military can do other things than fight -- in the US we have the Army Corps of Engineers who work on designing levees to protect low-lying areas from flooding, and the military can be used to help areas recover from disaster (airlifted supplies and such).
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I think the idea of a sim turning out with a silly trait like clumsy, clingy and even fussy would be a great way to incorporate this, but itd be tough to find the line that says 'you neglected your pregnancy, have a sim with a predetermined trait', would a one time bladder failure or collapse do it? Or would it need to be more regular? This is a good implementation idea, i think. Even adding things like a random chance of a disability once thats implemented would work, rather than choosing. Maybe 5% of sims?
And like @Bettyboop55 said, making it so things pregnant sims do is passed on, like a love of certain foods works well for me! And a chance of a trait or two being passed as well, rather than allowing us to choose everything.
As for disabilities, i want them. I have a chronic illness, being type 1 diabetes, and id love to see food related disorder that makes sims angry if they eat something overly sweet like cake and havent say, done enough exercise to burn it off, or get dazed if their hunger gets too low. Keep it silly and whimsical like thr sims is, but even allowinv customisation in CAS works for me. Or sims who cannot eat a certain food, like food with fish, because they have an allergy, or sims who occasionally just collapse of exhaustion with no warning.
But maybe allowing a toggle, so those of us who want it can have it, as i know a lot of people play to escape their own life, while ill do anything for more depth.
I think the predetermined trait was actually in Sims 2, but that was a long time ago and I might be remembering wrong. I do recall in Sims 3 that if you did a poor job of caring for toddlers they'd age up with a negative trait...or maybe that was also Sims 2.
I think that physical disabilities could wait until the theoretica/mythical Sims 5; there would be a lot of Sims infrastructure required like ramps, lifts, etc. to handle Sims going from Point A to Point B. Mental/emotional disabilities could be handled via traits; I've used cheats/mods to change the traits of my Sims when they age up to Elder, for example I'll change out one of the traits for Erratic to indicate a Sim has gone a bit "dotty" in their old age. Or an Active Sim will become Lazy, or a Neat Sim become a Slob just to show how some people do have personality changes when they get old.
I remember Grant saying that he wouldn't have mental illness be traits. I can't find any of those tweets but he did say it
found it
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I think it is inappropriate as traits. Saying Bipolar is the same as Loves the Outdoors feels wrong? But, allowing for these things somehow is something we want to figure out. <a href="https://t.co/IENGJVknFT">https://t.co/IENGJVknFT</a></p>— Grant Rodiek (@SimGuruGrant) <a href="
Hello @stilljustme2 I had real difficulty remembering what the consequences were for a neglected pregnancy in TS2 but I think you are right about the predetermined trait and the child/teenager penalty for a poor toddler taming phase. Will Wright intended us to understand there would be consequences. I also remember that illness was more of a serious matter then. I had a teenager with flu and no matter what I did I still lost her.
In TS3 we have retained the predetermined trait. I would prefer to do without it and don't necessarily think it will translate well to TS4. I do like the idea of having certain foods, drinks and actions having an impact on the future sims likes and dislikes. I am not sure the emotion/trait system in TS4 is flexible enough to deal with that though or indeed mental illness. I think such deep dark issues as birth defects etc should be left for a darker version of the game. There is no way it can be lightly dismissed as amusing in the current franchise.
As I keep saying the time is not right for EA to introduce disability to the sims franchise. Your point about waiting for the ubiquitous TS5 is a good one and would fit better. If the intention is to build disability into the new game right from the start it can be in a way and at a level which is acceptable to all players. I would expect there to be on off toggle for those of us who want to escape and play with witches and fairies
Finally I agree the aging process in the sims is poorly portrayed and the use of walking sticks and wheelchairs should be a recognised part of the portrayal, along, sadly, with the more mental deterioration at that age.
@MadameLee representation of disability in the sims franchise should include mental illness. It is as much a factor of everyday life as walking with a walking stick. Now that Grant has been replaced things might change about using the trait system but I can't help agreeing with him that a mental illness trait does not sit well in the current trait system and rather trivializes a very serious subject. There is also the issue of how to portray those disabilities which do not have such obvious indicators such as wheelchairs, diabetes, epilepsy, sight impairment. Perhaps if EA waits to include these things in the next iteration then it can all be represented in a way which allows us all to enjoy playing and does not trivialise or cause offence. I want to see a more inclusive game but I want it done properly, with care and consideration.
I no longer use Origin or My Page. You can find me on YouTube or Twitter as Bettyboop711000. You are welcome to contact me as I explore options for a PC sandbox life simulation game.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
If it were possible a modder might have tried it so it might be worth looking on mod sites but I don't know of any myself. It might be too hard to do.
I tend to agree with @Pamtastic72. I have a life changing condition but not a physical one and come to the game to escape reality and enjoy Sims positive vibes.
Hello @stilljustme2 I had real difficulty remembering what the consequences were for a neglected pregnancy in TS2 but I think you are right about the predetermined trait and the child/teenager penalty for a poor toddler taming phase. Will Wright intended us to understand there would be consequences. I also remember that illness was more of a serious matter then. I had a teenager with flu and no matter what I did I still lost her.
In TS3 we have retained the predetermined trait. I would prefer to do without it and don't necessarily think it will translate well to TS4. I do like the idea of having certain foods, drinks and actions having an impact on the future sims likes and dislikes. I am not sure the emotion/trait system in TS4 is flexible enough to deal with that though or indeed mental illness. I think such deep dark issues as birth defects etc should be left for a darker version of the game. There is no way it can be lightly dismissed as amusing in the current franchise.
As I keep saying the time is not right for EA to introduce disability to the sims franchise. Your point about waiting for the ubiquitous TS5 is a good one and would fit better. If the intention is to build disability into the new game right from the start it can be in a way and at a level which is acceptable to all players. I would expect there to be on off toggle for those of us who want to escape and play with witches and fairies
Finally I agree the aging process in the sims is poorly portrayed and the use of walking sticks and wheelchairs should be a recognised part of the portrayal, along, sadly, with the more mental deterioration at that age.
@MadameLee representation of disability in the sims franchise should include mental illness. It is as much a factor of everyday life as walking with a walking stick. Now that Grant has been replaced things might change about using the trait system but I can't help agreeing with him that a mental illness trait does not sit well in the current trait system and rather trivializes a very serious subject. There is also the issue of how to portray those disabilities which do not have such obvious indicators such as wheelchairs, diabetes, epilepsy, sight impairment. Perhaps if EA waits to include these things in the next iteration then it can all be represented in a way which allows us all to enjoy playing and does not trivialise or cause offence. I want to see a more inclusive game but I want it done properly, with care and consideration.
Mental illness sufferer here: NO. I don't want mental illness in my game. Canes, wheelchairs, etc fine, but not mental illness. I play this game to escape real life. I don't want it to mimic it.
Hello @stilljustme2 I had real difficulty remembering what the consequences were for a neglected pregnancy in TS2 but I think you are right about the predetermined trait and the child/teenager penalty for a poor toddler taming phase. Will Wright intended us to understand there would be consequences. I also remember that illness was more of a serious matter then. I had a teenager with flu and no matter what I did I still lost her.
In TS3 we have retained the predetermined trait. I would prefer to do without it and don't necessarily think it will translate well to TS4. I do like the idea of having certain foods, drinks and actions having an impact on the future sims likes and dislikes. I am not sure the emotion/trait system in TS4 is flexible enough to deal with that though or indeed mental illness. I think such deep dark issues as birth defects etc should be left for a darker version of the game. There is no way it can be lightly dismissed as amusing in the current franchise.
As I keep saying the time is not right for EA to introduce disability to the sims franchise. Your point about waiting for the ubiquitous TS5 is a good one and would fit better. If the intention is to build disability into the new game right from the start it can be in a way and at a level which is acceptable to all players. I would expect there to be on off toggle for those of us who want to escape and play with witches and fairies
Finally I agree the aging process in the sims is poorly portrayed and the use of walking sticks and wheelchairs should be a recognised part of the portrayal, along, sadly, with the more mental deterioration at that age.
@MadameLee representation of disability in the sims franchise should include mental illness. It is as much a factor of everyday life as walking with a walking stick. Now that Grant has been replaced things might change about using the trait system but I can't help agreeing with him that a mental illness trait does not sit well in the current trait system and rather trivializes a very serious subject. There is also the issue of how to portray those disabilities which do not have such obvious indicators such as wheelchairs, diabetes, epilepsy, sight impairment. Perhaps if EA waits to include these things in the next iteration then it can all be represented in a way which allows us all to enjoy playing and does not trivialise or cause offence. I want to see a more inclusive game but I want it done properly, with care and consideration.
@Bettyboop55 are you sure Grant been replaced? He's still on twitter and is working on some project.
@MadameLee yes I am sure. He has been replaced as senior producer and is now working on some kind of communications project to do with TS4. It happened around Easter time and it was SimGuru Lyndsay who announced it on Twitter. I have not seen anything to the contrary since then and it is unlikely such a senior member of the team as SimGuruLyndsay would say it if there was any debate about it happening.
So sorry OP for taking the thread off topic
I no longer use Origin or My Page. You can find me on YouTube or Twitter as Bettyboop711000. You are welcome to contact me as I explore options for a PC sandbox life simulation game.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Hello @stilljustme2 I had real difficulty remembering what the consequences were for a neglected pregnancy in TS2 but I think you are right about the predetermined trait and the child/teenager penalty for a poor toddler taming phase. Will Wright intended us to understand there would be consequences. I also remember that illness was more of a serious matter then. I had a teenager with flu and no matter what I did I still lost her.
In TS3 we have retained the predetermined trait. I would prefer to do without it and don't necessarily think it will translate well to TS4. I do like the idea of having certain foods, drinks and actions having an impact on the future sims likes and dislikes. I am not sure the emotion/trait system in TS4 is flexible enough to deal with that though or indeed mental illness. I think such deep dark issues as birth defects etc should be left for a darker version of the game. There is no way it can be lightly dismissed as amusing in the current franchise.
As I keep saying the time is not right for EA to introduce disability to the sims franchise. Your point about waiting for the ubiquitous TS5 is a good one and would fit better. If the intention is to build disability into the new game right from the start it can be in a way and at a level which is acceptable to all players. I would expect there to be on off toggle for those of us who want to escape and play with witches and fairies
Finally I agree the aging process in the sims is poorly portrayed and the use of walking sticks and wheelchairs should be a recognised part of the portrayal, along, sadly, with the more mental deterioration at that age.
@MadameLee representation of disability in the sims franchise should include mental illness. It is as much a factor of everyday life as walking with a walking stick. Now that Grant has been replaced things might change about using the trait system but I can't help agreeing with him that a mental illness trait does not sit well in the current trait system and rather trivializes a very serious subject. There is also the issue of how to portray those disabilities which do not have such obvious indicators such as wheelchairs, diabetes, epilepsy, sight impairment. Perhaps if EA waits to include these things in the next iteration then it can all be represented in a way which allows us all to enjoy playing and does not trivialise or cause offence. I want to see a more inclusive game but I want it done properly, with care and consideration.
Mental illness sufferer here: NO. I don't want mental illness in my game. Canes, wheelchairs, etc fine, but not mental illness. I play this game to escape real life. I don't want it to mimic it.
Mild to moderate depression here (along with mobility issues) so I get where you're coming from. My Sims' lives are mostly boringly pleasant with mostly no drama because that's how I roll.
But the beauty of making it trait based is that you don't have to use those traits for your Sim. I'd like to see a return of the Absent-Minded trait which would work well for elder Sims. Maybe Socially Awkward. I just want to see the tools provided to help players create their own Sims, but not be forced into creating a specific Sim.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I totally thought about this before especially as a simmer who wanted to recreate themselves in sims 4. My only problem is that where is the cut off line to say this is the amount of disabilites/ illness/ birth defect because the list goes on. also the other thing is I personally think sims 4 or sims as a franchise is not meant to be necessarily a realistic game, sure its a simulation game. as someone with a birth defect I am not sure how someone would monitor all those that "make fun" and intentionally create sims and upload them on the library to be mean of those who unfortunately do have to live with these sorts of things. I am sure the sims 4 community is lovely but I am just really unsure about it. It is something that is vulnerable to some people living with these conditions. It is still a great suggestion and a lovely thought
Comments
Don't get me wrong, I would love more random happenstance in this game, and an amp of the stuff in it that is random like making a bad investment wiping out your cash by at least half, having job performance losses actually have real impact like making harder to regain the ground lost, a decrease in salary, demotions and even job loss. I would love burglars who steal big ticket items forcing you to spend unexpectedly to replace them, unfortunately when they do add this stuff some people complain, & loudly and it gets nerfed i.e. Alien abduction, or weather related deaths, which is why now so many are calling to much darker situations to be added. Because drama is a big part of life, and as much as I adore this game, that is where I find it really lacking most of the time.
Just think of the difficulty and time involved in designing them too. If it did come about it would probably be the last pack.
that would be unfair/mean to disabled players-we are always the last people to be consider of. Oh BTW they're would love for those of us who are disabled and want disabilities in the gym to talk to them on twitter.
I think the predetermined trait was actually in Sims 2, but that was a long time ago and I might be remembering wrong. I do recall in Sims 3 that if you did a poor job of caring for toddlers they'd age up with a negative trait...or maybe that was also Sims 2.
I think that physical disabilities could wait until the theoretica/mythical Sims 5; there would be a lot of Sims infrastructure required like ramps, lifts, etc. to handle Sims going from Point A to Point B. Mental/emotional disabilities could be handled via traits; I've used cheats/mods to change the traits of my Sims when they age up to Elder, for example I'll change out one of the traits for Erratic to indicate a Sim has gone a bit "dotty" in their old age. Or an Active Sim will become Lazy, or a Neat Sim become a Slob just to show how some people do have personality changes when they get old.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I remember Grant saying that he wouldn't have mental illness be traits. I can't find any of those tweets but he did say it
found it
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I think it is inappropriate as traits. Saying Bipolar is the same as Loves the Outdoors feels wrong? But, allowing for these things somehow is something we want to figure out. <a href="https://t.co/IENGJVknFT">https://t.co/IENGJVknFT</a></p>— Grant Rodiek (@SimGuruGrant) <a href="
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
In TS3 we have retained the predetermined trait. I would prefer to do without it and don't necessarily think it will translate well to TS4. I do like the idea of having certain foods, drinks and actions having an impact on the future sims likes and dislikes. I am not sure the emotion/trait system in TS4 is flexible enough to deal with that though or indeed mental illness. I think such deep dark issues as birth defects etc should be left for a darker version of the game. There is no way it can be lightly dismissed as amusing in the current franchise.
As I keep saying the time is not right for EA to introduce disability to the sims franchise. Your point about waiting for the ubiquitous TS5 is a good one and would fit better. If the intention is to build disability into the new game right from the start it can be in a way and at a level which is acceptable to all players. I would expect there to be on off toggle for those of us who want to escape and play with witches and fairies
Finally I agree the aging process in the sims is poorly portrayed and the use of walking sticks and wheelchairs should be a recognised part of the portrayal, along, sadly, with the more mental deterioration at that age.
@MadameLee representation of disability in the sims franchise should include mental illness. It is as much a factor of everyday life as walking with a walking stick. Now that Grant has been replaced things might change about using the trait system but I can't help agreeing with him that a mental illness trait does not sit well in the current trait system and rather trivializes a very serious subject. There is also the issue of how to portray those disabilities which do not have such obvious indicators such as wheelchairs, diabetes, epilepsy, sight impairment. Perhaps if EA waits to include these things in the next iteration then it can all be represented in a way which allows us all to enjoy playing and does not trivialise or cause offence. I want to see a more inclusive game but I want it done properly, with care and consideration.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Sim enim est vita
I tend to agree with @Pamtastic72. I have a life changing condition but not a physical one and come to the game to escape reality and enjoy Sims positive vibes.
Mental illness sufferer here: NO. I don't want mental illness in my game. Canes, wheelchairs, etc fine, but not mental illness. I play this game to escape real life. I don't want it to mimic it.
@Bettyboop55 are you sure Grant been replaced? He's still on twitter and is working on some project.
So sorry OP for taking the thread off topic
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Sim enim est vita
Mild to moderate depression here (along with mobility issues) so I get where you're coming from. My Sims' lives are mostly boringly pleasant with mostly no drama because that's how I roll.
But the beauty of making it trait based is that you don't have to use those traits for your Sim. I'd like to see a return of the Absent-Minded trait which would work well for elder Sims. Maybe Socially Awkward. I just want to see the tools provided to help players create their own Sims, but not be forced into creating a specific Sim.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)