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Gallery being sorted by "Popular Now" by default is a problem

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    AlbaWaterhouseAlbaWaterhouse Posts: 3,953 Member
    I voted and also replied but there are still 15 hours left to vote and I feel like our team needs more votes.
    (Also as I said on Twitter, it's not only a matter of downloads it's also taking away the diversity and homogenising the gallery)
    Origin ID is: AlbaWaterhouse
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    Artemisa02Artemisa02 Posts: 258 Member

    Counting so far:

    poll_1.png
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    My original ID @Artemisa02
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    brenleedeebrenleedee Posts: 427 Member
    I really don't understand why we have to vote on twitter, not everyone has a twitter account..I don't. Having a random poll on Twitter that some of us didn't even know about is really no way to determine if they will change something.

    I do agree with the consensus that at least there was an acknowledgement, sadly this also means they haven't been working on it.
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    kass17kass17 Posts: 92 Member
    The gallery is actually full of creations of the same simmers, that have not so many followers and less popular than a lot of others. It is not normal to see almost all creations of simmers, mostly if he is newbie or not so much popular, to be downloaded more than 10000 in a week. And as said @GLovely1 it is like this since long time, because there are simmers that download their own creations tons of time to reach the most popular tab, and with the fact that this tab is actually the first thing that people see in the gallery, those persons take advantage even more. I am very happy that something will be done at least about the new gallery soon.
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    Mandykay77Mandykay77 Posts: 21 Member
    GLovely1 wrote: »
    Finvola wrote: »
    I'm glad it's being looked into. I always look through the newest ones and nobody is getting any downloads at all. And yes, it's pretty frustrating seeing copied or cloned content in the "Popular Now" section . It gives those people more incentive to be dishonest and boost their popularity. Sometimes I've seen the copied version get more downloads than the original, and that isn't right at all.

    Thank you for bringing up this point! I have been trying to get the word out in the gallery about this very fact for months now. The minority of simmers who seemingly don't care about how long it takes to make a good creation and simply reupload is bad enough. However some of those simmers also boost their own reuploaded creation into the popular now section by repeatedly redownloading that creation. This gives them the visibility and respect the original creator actually deserves. The original creator is harmed twice in this case. The reupload and then the download manipulation that makes the simmer reuploading look like a top quality simmer. My latest fear once I saw the popular now as the default is coming true :(

    @Mandykay77 Thank you for posting your message about this poll on my gallery profile. I actually created a Twitter account just today because I am so invested in making this change.

    You are so welcome :smile: . I also signed up to just to vote as well.
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    Mandykay77Mandykay77 Posts: 21 Member
    brenleedee wrote: »
    I really don't understand why we have to vote on twitter, not everyone has a twitter account..I don't. Having a random poll on Twitter that some of us didn't even know about is really no way to determine if they will change something.

    I do agree with the consensus that at least there was an acknowledgement, sadly this also means they haven't been working on it.

    I know what you mean, I signed up today just so I could vote. just a matter of picking a name , password and email. :smiley:
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    SchnuckSchnuck Posts: 20 Member
    I had to recover a 7 year old unused Twitter account to vote (probably would have been easier to make a new one) and the 'pop now' default change has had less impact on me than others, particularly smaller and new creators. If the change has negative results for you, now is the time to vote - I doubt there will be another opportunity.
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    kreatorakreatora Posts: 557 Member
    @kass17 wrote
    The gallery is actually full of creations of the same simmers, that have not so many followers and less popular than a lot of others. It is not normal to see almost all creations of simmers, mostly if he is newbie or not so much popular, to be downloaded more than 10000 in a week. And as said @GLovely1 it is like this since long time, because there are simmers that download their own creations tons of time to reach the most popular tab, and with the fact that this tab is actually the first thing that people see in the gallery, those persons take advantage even more. I am very happy that something will be done at least about the new gallery soon.
    I have checked Gallery just now
    Unfortunately, it does not work like that. Cheater can add downloads but he can not add likes. Cheaters don't have followers. If any house or copy has a lot of downloads but also has a lot of "likes" that means the children in the Gallery are downloading it. By the way - these awful MacDonalds and Carrefours will always have a lot of downloads because children love it.
    I have voted of course :)
    My ID Origin kreatora
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    GLovely1GLovely1 Posts: 797 Member
    kreatora wrote: »
    @kass17 wrote
    The gallery is actually full of creations of the same simmers, that have not so many followers and less popular than a lot of others. It is not normal to see almost all creations of simmers, mostly if he is newbie or not so much popular, to be downloaded more than 10000 in a week. And as said @GLovely1 it is like this since long time, because there are simmers that download their own creations tons of time to reach the most popular tab, and with the fact that this tab is actually the first thing that people see in the gallery, those persons take advantage even more. I am very happy that something will be done at least about the new gallery soon.
    I have checked Gallery just now
    Unfortunately, it does not work like that. Cheater can add downloads but he can not add likes. Cheaters don't have followers. If any house or copy has a lot of downloads but also has a lot of "likes" that means the children in the Gallery are downloading it. By the way - these awful MacDonalds and Carrefours will always have a lot of downloads because children love it.
    I have voted of course :)

    Respectfully @kreatora I will point out that @kass17 said nothing about "likes". The point here is once a creation enters the popular now section everyone is literally now forced to see it. Most simmers trust that what they see on this page is real. They think they are seeing a great creation by an original creator so naturally they click "like" and download. Many simmers do not pay attention to the "original by" and still there are many ways a simmer can get around the original by. For me personally the biggest concern has always been whether a simmer is choosing to use the delete/redownload trick to add to their own download total. This act is against EA rules ~ I could quote the rule here but I will simply say it is also against the golden rule of life. Manipulating the download total for personal gain is unfair, dishonest and should immediately be removed from our gallery system which is completely download number driven. Yes, this is "just a game" I hear that line a lot however this gaming system has a major flaw. The download count should act just like the "like" count meaning +1 for each simmer only. Not +1, +1, +1 … as much as you want to boost your creation into the popular now section where every simmer is forced to see it now. We need this hidden, unintentional "cheat" to be removed from the gallery system especially now that all of the emphasis has been placed on what is popular. I promise you right now I could easily and quickly add +1 repeatedly to my download total and force you all to see my latest creation in the popular now section. Would you like that? Is that fair practices? Can this major gallery problem be fixed? In my opinion it must be fixed especially now that the popular now page is the default. Thank you everyone for reading and for taking the time to speak your mind here. :)
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    kreatorakreatora Posts: 557 Member
    edited August 2018
    @GLovely1
    I agree.
    The upward movement on the page may depend also on the quantity "likes" - not quantity downloads. Well, this will favor the YouTube creators, and of course those with a lot of follwers, Maybe it will be more honest - one person , one "like " - but many people will not like it too.
    My ID Origin kreatora
    Hero on EA AHQ
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    GLovely1GLovely1 Posts: 797 Member
    Thank you @kreatora :) Yes, definitely the upward movement on the popular now page depends on the quantity of likes. It is the act of first getting our creations into the popular now section that is faulty. All simmers can and some actually do add +1 repeatedly typically upon initially uploading a creation and during the first 48 hours. That way they guarantee their spot in the popular now section within the 7 day window that creations stay in there. Once a creation gets to the popular now page all the gallery sees it and the cycle of the system works in the sense that the more likes a creation has the more people see it and the more download they get. I play fairly and create original things I love first and then send it out into the gallery hoping the system will effectively work for me honestly. Within this new system it is now even more impossible for it to work for #fairplay original creators like me. I choose create and play in the gallery fairly even though I know the easy way to boost my creation download total. I will not use this trick because that would be saying I am better than every other creator in the gallery. I feel using the self downloading trick also says I don't value the efforts of every other creator in the gallery. Those of you who know me know I value all of your creative efforts tremendously <3 Being popular is not my first motivation in the gallery but I do not trust anymore the motivations of some others. I see proof daily that simmers are adding to their own download total and that should not be allowed to continue in a number driven system.
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    simsinmysleepsimsinmysleep Posts: 651 Member
    GLovely1 wrote: »
    Thank you @kreatora :) Yes, definitely the upward movement on the popular now page depends on the quantity of likes.
    If the 'Popular Now' section is based on likes I'll never get there, lol. I don't get a lot of downloads (except for a few things that I was lucky enough to get a Maxis fave on years ago - my newer stuff hardly gets downloaded at all), but I get even fewer favorites. I used to think that it was because people had problems with my builds after placing (even though I playtest each lot thoroughly) but then I saw that someone who copied and re-uploaded my RV Motorhome lot has more favorites than I do! So yeah, the gallery has been a mystery to me for a long time.

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    kass17kass17 Posts: 92 Member
    edited August 2018
    GLovely1 wrote: »
    Thank you @kreatora :) Yes, definitely the upward movement on the popular now page depends on the quantity of likes. It is the act of first getting our creations into the popular now section that is faulty. All simmers can and some actually do add +1 repeatedly typically upon initially uploading a creation and during the first 48 hours. That way they guarantee their spot in the popular now section within the 7 day window that creations stay in there. Once a creation gets to the popular now page all the gallery sees it and the cycle of the system works in the sense that the more likes a creation has the more people see it and the more download they get. I play fairly and create original things I love first and then send it out into the gallery hoping the system will effectively work for me honestly. Within this new system it is now even more impossible for it to work for #fairplay original creators like me. I choose create and play in the gallery fairly even though I know the easy way to boost my creation download total. I will not use this trick because that would be saying I am better than every other creator in the gallery. I feel using the self downloading trick also says I don't value the efforts of every other creator in the gallery. Those of you who know me know I value all of your creative efforts tremendously <3 Being popular is not my first motivation in the gallery but I do not trust anymore the motivations of some others. I see proof daily that simmers are adding to their own download total and that should not be allowed to continue in a number driven system.

    Exactly. The gallery system is actually a paradise for those who download their own creations. And some really amazing creations from honest creators stay in the dark cause there are only some creations that goes to the pop tab. So, to be sure to be there, they download their own creations tons of time. Easy.
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    wormstache999wormstache999 Posts: 477 Member
    brenleedee wrote: »
    I really don't understand why we have to vote on twitter, not everyone has a twitter account..I don't. Having a random poll on Twitter that some of us didn't even know about is really no way to determine if they will change something.

    I do agree with the consensus that at least there was an acknowledgement, sadly this also means they haven't been working on it.
    Agreed. The forum here has polls, so why not use them? At least it should be used additionally. Especially because people here are talking about the whole issue. If people made them aware of this thread and the issue here then why not at least head over here and mention the poll?
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    PlantylPlantyl Posts: 53 Member
    @wormstache999 Yes, that's weird :/
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    PlantylPlantyl Posts: 53 Member
    edited August 2018
    Also, I would appreciate it if EA set the News window as the main site like it was in the past and remove the instant download button, because sometimes we creators want people to read what we wrote before they download our works.
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    lsnishilsnishi Posts: 2,714 Member
    I don't have twitter so I probably won't vote in the poll, but I am trying to fave/like all the really wonderful creators who are creative (meaning don't reupload others lots) and who put a lot of time and effort into their lots. I urge others to do the same, so that they can get a fair chance of getting on the most popular list. These creators usually got a lot of faves when their lots showed in the newest catagory by default but are now rather overlooked.
    PDWxp40.jpg
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    pinneduphairpinneduphair Posts: 918 Member
    Interesting, I wasn't aware of the fact that people could download their own creations over and over to cheat the system. I wonder if they could make it so you could only download your own thing once every 24 hours (or something like that). Because I'd hate to lose the ability to download my own creations entirely. There's been a few times that I lost/accidentally deleted something from my library, but was able to recover it because it was on the gallery.
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    Mandykay77Mandykay77 Posts: 21 Member
    Plantyl wrote: »
    Also, I would appreciate it if EA set the News window as the main site like it was in the past and remove the instant download button, because sometimes we creators want people to read what we wrote before they download our works.

    @Plantyl I totally agree with that!
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    GLovely1GLovely1 Posts: 797 Member
    edited August 2018
    hyrulerose wrote: »
    Interesting, I wasn't aware of the fact that people could download their own creations over and over to cheat the system. I wonder if they could make it so you could only download your own thing once every 24 hours (or something like that). Because I'd hate to lose the ability to download my own creations entirely. There's been a few times that I lost/accidentally deleted something from my library, but was able to recover it because it was on the gallery.

    Sadly, yes, people can and do easily cheat our gallery system. Each time anyone downloads anyone else's creation the download count goes up +1. If you delete that creation for whatever reason and then decide to go download it again it's download total goes up again +1. If everyone in the gallery would create and upload fair and honestly this would not be as big a problem as it already is. I would hate to lose the ability to download my creation again if I lose it or whatever. That is not the issue though. The issue is the gallery is tracking this download number in an accounting for who is "popular now". That is completely unfair when any one of us can go right now and manipulate that number repeatedly to be seen in the popular now section. This section is already full of self downloaded creations mixed in with amazing talented fair original creators. Soon, especially if the popular now section remains the default that page will be showcasing the who's who of re-uploaders and download manipulators with a sprinkling of really popular simmers with higher follower counts. I, even having 1800 followers have no hope of reaching that section in that case. I was barely getting there before this frustrating new popular now as default change :s
    GLovely1 wrote: »
    Thank you @kreatora :) Yes, definitely the upward movement on the popular now page depends on the quantity of likes.
    If the 'Popular Now' section is based on likes I'll never get there, lol. I don't get a lot of downloads (except for a few things that I was lucky enough to get a Maxis fave on years ago - my newer stuff hardly gets downloaded at all), but I get even fewer favorites. I used to think that it was because people had problems with my builds after placing (even though I playtest each lot thoroughly) but then I saw that someone who copied and re-uploaded my RV Motorhome lot has more favorites than I do! So yeah, the gallery has been a mystery to me for a long time.
    If the gallery operated the way it was intended then we would all have a greater chance at reaching the popular now page. I simplify it here but think this way ~ each "like" I gave would be seen by my followers on line at the time of the "like". Those simmers see it, "like" it, download it probably also and may even go follow that creator. It goes around the gallery in a circle like this. We all need some "likes" on our creation, some followers and some downloads and of course some really great creative uploads. I still don't even understand all the in's and out's of the gallery and I have been studying this particular problem for a year now. If all played fair in the gallery the system would actually work pretty well statistically speaking. Truly, all I really know for a fact is there is a fast, easy way to add +1 repeatedly to our own creation or to anyone else's creation and that ability should be removed from the gallery asap or the measure should be switched to the "like" accounting since we can't manipulate that number. We click the +1 "like" and if we click it again our +1 "like" goes away. It is fair and balanced accounting. Is that a perfect measurement either? No, but I do believe it is a better option than what is happening right now.
    Post edited by GLovely1 on
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    GLovely1GLovely1 Posts: 797 Member
    edited August 2018
    Plantyl wrote: »
    Also, I would appreciate it if EA set the News window as the main site like it was in the past and remove the instant download button, because sometimes we creators want people to read what we wrote before they download our works.

    Yes, I agree with you. I have mixed feelings about the overall look of the new gallery but I would like our "newsfeed" to go back to being the first thing we see when going into the gallery. Now it seems sometimes it comes up for me first and sometimes the community popular now comes up first when I enter the gallery. I don't understand that one at all. Also of course the change back to "newest" when we look at the community page. I liked the ability to choose whether I ever looked at the community pages of newest and popular now or not.

    Sorry I meant for this to be an edit to my post just above .. I didn't mean to double post. I tried to delete this one and add it to the one above but we can't delete. I'm still learning ;)
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    lsnishilsnishi Posts: 2,714 Member
    I was just checking the "most popular now" category for all lots, households & rooms. Is there a reason why I can't get more than the first 25 lines of items? The scroll bar will not go any farther down nor will more items load. I don't remember this ever happening to me in the old gallery. It seems hard for new items with a handful of likes/downloads to become more popular if they NEVER load in the most popular category ever.
    PDWxp40.jpg
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    FruUtterFruUtter Posts: 128 Member
    edited August 2018
    Dear fellow simmers!

    Right after the patch I as the rest of players here was convinced that the changes are less benefitial for everyone and even harmful for new creators. However, after observing the gallery I have changed my mind. There are several benefits with the new system which alows everyone to be noticed, however, players seem not have had time to adopt to the new changes.

    In regard to self-download, according to my observation, selfdownload is possible to practice but since the new system changes the popular tab more rapidly the self-download practice becomes, believe it or not, MEANINGLESS. Which is evident if one closely (very closely) observes a few creators with many DLs. The new indicator is the combo of number or DL and increase in followers.

    Before the Gallery changes I had very few Dls and few Favs from my friends/followers. After the gallery changes I quickly understood the IDEA BEHIND the gallery changes. I re-iploaded most of my sims and the differnce in DLs was HUGE. And those are the same sims. One can ask how come? Did my sims suddenly bceame better due to the patch? Hardly, I uploaded the SAME sims for the sake of the experiment. Then, according to some ideas presented here, I might be a so called self-downloader so called "DL-cheater". Since I uploaded over 15 creations at once, the idea of "cheating"can be confronted with the question:

    How much amd how many hours do I need to self-DL 50 creations in order to keep the floting on the Pop tab?

    or

    Is there something else that makes the creations to survive the gallery changes?

    Still, I do not have THE answer to that but this is what I have observed since right after the patch:

    1 self-Dl does not work in the new system
    2 Everyone has a VERY good chance in the new system and is not dependent on followers likes because of the rapid changes of pictures
    3 The number of DL is more consistant with number of Followers (the more DLs the more followers)
    4 It is all a matter of TASTE. If the public LIKES your creation you get lots of DLs.

    Negative effects
    1 Quality seem to be less important - the presentation picture is of the essence and a very specific TYPE of sims and builds (no changes at all indded compared to how it was before)
    2 Only 3-5 rows on top of the Pop tab change less rapidly thus making the system and possibilitues UNEVEN
    3 THE problem is that it is much harder to find OLD creations if one uses tags and THAT is a great problem because there is no TAB CALLED "OLDER" and now we only see the popular/most pop and newest


    In the livestream video it is EVIDENT that MAxis/EA whatever WANT to BOOST the original and non-mainstream creator. Those featured were #TheLonnykins, #13Vader and #Elocine54. These players are NOT mainstream. The new system is in many ways INGENIOUS and I looove every minute of it. However, in order to SURVIVE the gallery changes a creator has to become mainstream AND deliver the PUBLIC what they want. Simple marketing. So, let us not forget, that the odd. the unusual, the non-mainstream etc. will ALWAYS and I repeat ALWAYS be in the shadow of THE mainstream in IRL and Sims gallery.

    If YOU really want to boost the SMALL or unknown creator you SHOULD nominate them for a Maxis fav! And not nominate your friends only because they will nominate you back.


    Nominate SIMS
    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/845345/best-households-ever-recommendations-for-maxis-tab/p1

    Nominate HOUSES/LOTS
    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/799585/updated-best-lot-creations-ever-recommendations-for-maxis-tab/p1

    Nominate ROOMS
    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/803516/best-rooms-ever-recommendations-for-maxis-tab/p1
    Post edited by FruUtter on
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    FruUtterFruUtter Posts: 128 Member

    Proof of the pudding is in the eating


    Pictures: The pictures are bfore and after the patch. Look carefuly - same sims same titles yet so different outcomes!
    tumblr_pdacgpXrpS1xzmtkxo1_1280.jpg



    PAIR 1

    Before the patch, posted 07/21/18
    tumblr_pdacgpXrpS1xzmtkxo4_1280.jpg


    After the patch, posted 08/01/18
    tumblr_pdacgpXrpS1xzmtkxo5_1280.jpg


    PAIR 2
    Before the patch, posted 07/21/18
    tumblr_pdacgpXrpS1xzmtkxo2_1280.jpg


    After the patch, posted 08/05/18
    tumblr_pdacgpXrpS1xzmtkxo3_1280.jpg



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    SchnuckSchnuck Posts: 20 Member
    Hi @FruUtter - I couldn't agree with you more about knowing what people want and what they are looking for in their game - THAT is what gets downloads. Someone could build a beautifully detailed, huge palace, but it isn't necessarily what people are looking for.. Sure, you might get a lot of favorites and admiration, but it might not be practical to play and it doesn't mean that somebody who built a simpler construct is cheating their downloads.

    I do think that there are some who may do this, but I don't think it is as big as a problem as what's being continously implied. I'd say the vast majority of the people in top pop are there legitimately atleast in the lots category - I don't know anything about the household category. With that said, I absolutely support the cheat loophole being closed and hope that they fix it ASAP because this is not fair game play AND it's also not fair to accuse innocent people of it. I also personally feel that continously re-uploaded content shouldn't be sitting in top pop and strongly support an option for creators not to have their stuff re-uploaded.
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