There are new genders and pronouns being invented every day. Where is this „objective truth“? Also adding religion or disabilities to the game would be much easier and less complex than adding custom genders or pronouns. It doesn‘t require to reinvent dozens of languages.
What about using a made up religion? Based on a general higher power rather than a specific ideal. Like a Sky Specter.
Now we have likes/dislikes it would be easier to assign Sims.
If disliked your Sim won’t be interested.
If liked, the club system in Get Together could be used to meet up. Sims could either just gather and chat or even add singing.
No rituals, no specific outfits/headwear or statues or the like, no kneeling.
Just keeping it all generalised. Sims chatting or singing whilst in the group. How would others feel about that?
As for disability, even some walking sticks like in Sims 3 Generations would be great.
As someone else has said, this thread has some weird undertones.
Some are complaining that even the inclusion of LGBTQ+ individuals/couples in gameplay trailers is somehow too much and distracting despite the trailers I've seen never showing LGBTQ+ people being anywhere near the main focus of the entire trailer, nor are they the focus of the scene they're in anymore so than any portrayal of straight couples. It could be said that these instances of their inclusion might only seem amplified ironically because we aren't use to their representation in general. If the issue is due to the fact that it was seemingly made explicitly identifiable that the couple was same-s*x, then why aren't the same complaints made about the seemingly straight relationships that are depicted? I say this because if the same-s*x couples were replaced with straight couples, then the factor of representation wouldn't be a contributing mention to the overall sentiments of simply wanting more *actual gameplay* to be shown in trailers. When people ask as to "why," I only can imagine questioning in response of "why not" in this scenario, since the main takeaway isn't necessarily the sims themselves.
There's also another person who brought up an interesting point about the addition of pride flags implying that there was once discrimination against LGBTQ+ at some point within the sim lore, which I don't think is actually that far off the mark in way of exclusion (by today's standards)? The original sims game entirely opted out the allowance for same-s*x marriage despite it only acting as a symbolic, social interaction. The Sims 2 only allowed for same-s*x couples to "Join Union," and while it may have been functionally the same as heteros*xual marriage, there was the decision on Maxis' part to not only define the two actions differently, but also in having the act of "Join Union" slightly impact gameplay by providing less aspiration points to the same-s*x couple than the regularly married heteros*xual couple (according to the sims wiki).
On the contrary of what was implied earlier in this thread, the sims team did in fact include American, "'real life'" perceptions in their game at some point in time seen by this admission. Why bother renaming it if the game existed outside of real life culture? We also weren't able to create non-binary/transgender sims in games prior to Sims 4 either, which I think does justify some of the attention as its stand for the Sims 4's customization capabilities (customization of which is a valid feature that games do heavily advertise). I brought this up not to shame the prior games in any way, but to suggest that perhaps the lore needed for some to justify the addition of the pride items was already there.
I also don't really understand the insinuations that if the sims team weren't working on LGBTQ+ content, then they would most certainly be working on other aspects that would be seen as more crucial to gameplay. I can only think of three LGBTQ+ related additions to the game: pride items, gender customization, and possibly a pronouns update. The pride items were notably a *free* update made in collaboration with the "It Gets Better Project" to celebrate pride month... alongside other features such as stilt foundations, new door swatches, the randomize-traits button, and - the only considerably gameplay worthy feature included (if you consider sitting gameplay) - the lounge chair.
Not including the fact that pride update did include additions for other types of players, I think the pride items themselves show that not as much time was put into creating them as some people assume, as the meshes for most if not all clothes and Build/Buy objects were already there that just needed, from my understanding, a photoshopped pattern/image. I think the only new mesh created was the flag (I don't have the game installed to check), which is just a slightly wrapped, flat(?), rectangular mesh with an easily applied pattern on it, which I really don't think would take someone well versed in mesh-making as their job all that long to produce. In weighing the beneficial returns against the time and effort spent implementing suggested yet *freely* promised features, I think they might be prioritizing/pandering to the LGBTQ+ because it proved to be the easiest requests they'd be willing to meet for free in exchange for positive public perception based on both the pride items' quality and the gender customization update.
I don't have much knowledge on the creation of CAS items in general, so I could be wrong about how much work could of possibly went into what had seemed to be some sort of crudely batch-fix conversion for male/female items for the gender customization updates' initial release. However, it was (and maybe still is?) noticeable when I played around in CAS that there wasn't much effort was put into making the clothes morph onto the opposite gender frame to where it looks good/well-fitted, probably because that require a lot more effort than what they're probably willing to put into a free update. That's why it is probably easier for them to just implement the update in its "good enough" state that worked within their possible time constraints and claim the kudos for the progress they've done in this instance. Yes they've provided large gameplay updates for free like toddlers and sentiments (I guess?), but those always corresponded with the potential of generating revenue w/related game packs .
Overhauling the presently broken foundations of the game after putting it off for 7 years doesn't seem to have ever been in their top interests, and providing new, inspired gameplay is something they'd rather have you pay for. So it should then in part be relevant as to why they wouldn't really be inclined to add something like disabilities to the game, as physical disabilities might require animation overhauls for all aspects of a sims' movement. Mental disabilities can be experienced/interpreted differently by each individual, so inputting it into the game might not accurately depict the experience. Then there's the question of which disabilities to add and if its feasible. The Sims Medieval religions would be cool to see again in a modern rendition of the series, but even in general, adding religions, as someone else mentioned, is complicated because its up to individual perception. Clearly they have to make concessions where needed, as they ultimately aren't trying to, nor able to please all of us since its they're in it to turn a profit.
But yeah, I'm just speaking from my own opinion obviously, and sorry this being way too long for my first post on a game I don't even play anymore.
There are new genders and pronouns being invented every day. Where is this „objective truth“? Also adding religion or disabilities to the game would be much easier and less complex than adding custom genders or pronouns. It doesn‘t require to reinvent dozens of languages.
What about using a made up religion? Based on a general higher power rather than a specific ideal. Like a Sky Specter.
Now we have likes/dislikes it would be easier to assign Sims.
If disliked your Sim won’t be interested.
If liked, the club system in Get Together could be used to meet up. Sims could either just gather and chat or even add singing.
No rituals, no specific outfits/headwear or statues or the like, no kneeling.
Just keeping it all generalised. Sims chatting or singing whilst in the group. How would others feel about that?
As for disability, even some walking sticks like in Sims 3 Generations would be great.
I appreciate what you are saying but they didn't make up anyone in the LGBTQ+ community. It's almost like yes, we are inclusive...just not those people. Though they did go with making a Sim who had trans from male to female into a pink room and pink decor as someone mentioned early in this thread. I don't know if that is true but they stereotyped women if they did. People want to be polite and cooperate but then the go down the road of well, we don't want religious people represented but we will accept a made up religious Sim. Ok, but is that inclusive, really? No.
Simself is impossible for millions and not just those of different faiths but those who are disabled physically. A lot people here bring up how they want more diversity in the game..but it's never those people in their very own towns,it's always some distant land they perhaps have not even visited nor ever will. It's why Simself is not true in TS4 and why it should be no more important than playing a Sim who happens to be just a Sim who has bad things or good things happen to them and has to deal. Perhaps *since so many tell me it's impossible to do" Simself gameplay should have never been a tag line at all.
ETA: But if Maxis wants to continue to claim people can play their Simselves they need to do something about tools such as gender patch, or the vampire attributes etc. to let people actually build their Simself from those type tools that could make them feel a little bit welcome. I think something like that such as tools like the gender patch expand the Simself gameplay for all other type people who really do see and feel left out of the Sim universe. Animations for a person who requires a wheelchair is a huge undertaking, I know, but really it's way past time they also get to play Simself or let Simself fall by the wayside and stop using it as the tagline. Maxis wasn't afraid to take on the gender patch, so, where is the compassion for those who are very unrepresented in TS4? It's always but that's too hard, or I don't want it, and or not those people, please...
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
This game will end up as a LGBTQ+ only game and will probably die-
....how? Straight relationships in The Sims are not going to go away any time soon. Neither will cisgenders and proper pronoun usage. Relax lol.
The game doesn't respect straight or gay relationships. Because both type Sims are Bi. I was in thread where someone was upset the game turned their gay Sim straight. I participated in that thread because the game had turned my straight Sim gay. Showing the game does whatever it wants and all Sims are Bi. It happens to be very annoying and why the 'never flirty' trait was demanded upon the request of those of us who were sick and tired of a gay or straight Sim switching preferences on a dime. However, the never flirty trait shouldn't have to be used to keep a Sim from picking the same or different gender. All that should have been set like in older games by the players, but if any Sim happens to be flirty in TS4 then there is a chance (very strong chance) our own Sim will be receptive and switch or actually just be Bi and neither straight or gay. So, no there is no representation in this game for gay or straight since all Sims are Bi.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I somewhat agree with @Cinebar. Sims4 is the first game to include real life flags not "simlish" flags. Previously the real was left to CC creators. I like that they strive towards "neutral", the clothing update for example but the idea that everyone should be represented opened up a can of worms I think. There's a whole big world out there and everyone should feel represented? What happened to imagination - to playing a game?
Yeah, I feel the same for I know what she is hitting at but she is not being specific and not everything is about religion, race or gender. It as someone pointed about mother's day and it could also be about Father Day as well which is the under celebrated holiday versus Mother's Day (I do love my mama) and it could go on But this game has become an hotbed for RL issues and this is my opinion and those who disagree do not look for an argument for you will not get it. I am not into the LGBTQ issue as this game is not about that and has become an hot issue and I believe in equality and all but the Sims is not the place to have that talk as the game is about having fun and escaping the RL even if temporarily through gaming that is opinion again. Granted one can avoid the issues through options but for some even with that it still causes controversy.
Post edited by Goldmoldar on
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This game will end up as a LGBTQ+ only game and will probably die-
....how? Straight relationships in The Sims are not going to go away any time soon. Neither will cisgenders and proper pronoun usage. Relax lol.
The game doesn't respect straight or gay relationships. Because both type Sims are Bi. I was in thread where someone was upset the game turned their gay Sim straight. I participated in that thread because the game had turned my straight Sim gay. Showing the game does whatever it wants and all Sims are Bi. It happens to be very annoying and why the 'never flirty' trait was demanded upon the request of those of us who were sick and tired of a gay or straight Sim switching preferences on a dime. However, the never flirty trait shouldn't have to be used to keep a Sim from picking the same or different gender. All that should have been set like in older games by the players, but if any Sim happens to be flirty in TS4 then there is a chance (very strong chance) our own Sim will be receptive and switch or actually just be Bi and neither straight or gay. So, no there is no representation in this game for gay or straight since all Sims are Bi.
To me, it just sounds like a poor implementation of romance and the lack of an attraction/preference system than like, actively throttling of non-pansexual relationships (like you can get an attraction only if you perform romantic interactions on specific Sims, but sometimes that doesn't work out either). A lot of things in Sims 4 aren't well-implemented, the attraction and preference "system" is one of them. Just like how pronouns in some moodlet descriptions are likely the result of an oversight than it is an active agenda to abolish pronouns.
I think honestly, the "ham-fisted" inclusion of lesbian couples in promotional material and LGTB flags are the least of the game's problems? They're easily content you can ignore, and they're very low effort to put into the game. Obviously, it's done to pander to a specific audience to an extent and probably score brownie points for EA execs, but I don't quite understand the fixation specifically on it? Practically any pack or new content EA puts out was created specifically to pander, such as its Star Wars content or skin tones. I also don't understand how the inclusion of LGBT content is any more political than more skin tone options, it's pretty much things people are in real life too. Furthermore, I don't understand a lot of complaints about the game's promotional material to begin with, it's also things you can ignore too, they won't impact your time playing the game and their purpose is to sell the game to you; maybe it's a bit cheesy and over-the-top but that's like the point of trailers.
Also getting weird vibes from this thread. As someone who is queer, I don't feel that the sims team have been particularly brilliant at LGBT+ inclusion, and I don't feel there's an overwhelming amount of it compared to other types of representation. The clothes update is still bugged (though it's easier to get long hair and skinny jeans for men- yay!), and while we got some pride items, it's not like I'm able to make explicitly queer sims in cas *barring the uses male clothing etc options. I am definitely all for a romance update, as I would like to choose my sims preferences, but I don't think that can be blamed on the sims focusing on diversity or catering to a specific group, I think it's a pattern of their lacking focus on gameplay.
Re the skin/hair updates, I feel like the originals were bugs, not features, especially since the draft for one of the hairs used some uncomfortable language. I think they needed to be fixed much sooner (tbh, they should've been fixed right from the start) and I consider the updates more bug fixes and mesh updates than the sims team being diverse.
I feel like a lot of concerns in the original post could be addressed as a 'hey sims team, could we have some gameplay to go along with all the cosmetic updates too' rather than what I read as 'hey sims team, could we please stop trying to be diverse'.
It’s easy to see that The Sims has been updating many aspects of the game since 2015.
Pool tools, terrain tools, adding different cultural items into gameplay, family trees, toddlers, christmas stuff (even before seasons) and yes some gender customization.
But gender customization is not an “lgbt” thing. It’s gameplay. I have played my Sims using the different options to just make sims however I want them to be.
I can make my girl a tomboy cause I can dress her in mens clothing now. I can also give men looooong beautiful hair and not feel limited to the “masculine hairstyles” or small selection of long hair they originally had.
I can also decide if I want my sim to pee standing or sitting down... that’s just a preference and has nothing to do with being lgbt hahaha.
Pronouns is not a set in stone thing yet. I hope it happens - it would add to my gameplay. However I also hope for cars and I hope for more social interactions between sims. I don’t think any group is getting more attention than another - we also had a skin overhaul recently which represents any person out there with skin... and I love how much we can customize our sims now. Maybe it is being advertised more when these updates come and it feels more “in your face” because it stands out more.
I saw someone mentioning that religion shouldn’t be made up in Sims because “lgbts” weren’t made up... but that to me sounds like you would assume straight is the default orientation in real life and I don’t personally believe that. However, religion was made up by people. I’m not saying a god or gods were made up at all - I might not be religious, but I have respect for people who do believe.. but the religious texts were written by people. Lgbt people weren’t made up. They’ve always been around. It didn’t have to be written in text to be real.
I think these updates have brought me joy and freedom to my gameplay. I’m sorry if you don’t feel the same and I hope you get what you want one day. I just hope you won’t try to take away from one group of marginalized people in order to further your cause.
Imo the updates have been pretty inclusive so far. I’m sorry if you don’t see it that way.
I’m not here to discuss. It makes me anxious. I just saw this thread a few times and it made me pretty bummed out, so I felt the need to voice my opinion on it.
As a lesbian it made me so happy that I could finally make a couple of women and not have one of the women cheat in order for them to go through a pregnancy and have a baby. Before it was always either cheating or adoption... now I get to play with my imagination.
As an omnisexual transgender girl I feel like I have a right to set my foot in this conversation. I find it highly offensive to say that EA is basically sucking up to the LGBTQ+ community. All we have are flags, gay marriage (and thats been in the game since day one), some t-shirts and flags. That is not much whatsoever.
The Muslim community has hijabs, that burqini, the entire Oasis Courtyard KIt, and some base game architecture. They also have turbans.
Asians hav the entire Snowy Escape Pack and some of City Living.
(Take a grain of salt with this next one) The Amish community(ies) have the off-the-grid trait, Outdoor Retreat, and some clothes.
And thats just to name a few.
I get your message, I do. But I still find it offensive ot single out a group I'm a part of to say that we're ''over-represented''.
I'll close this topic here. This has been thoroughly discussed at this stage and it does not seem to be a discussion this community can have yet on the forums in a friendly, caring and understanding manner.
- EA_Lanna
New Simmers, take a moment to read through this thread.
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Please post all Sims 4 Bug Reports, Technical and Gameplay issues in the AHQ Sims 4 Section.
Comments
Now we have likes/dislikes it would be easier to assign Sims.
If disliked your Sim won’t be interested.
If liked, the club system in Get Together could be used to meet up. Sims could either just gather and chat or even add singing.
No rituals, no specific outfits/headwear or statues or the like, no kneeling.
Just keeping it all generalised. Sims chatting or singing whilst in the group. How would others feel about that?
As for disability, even some walking sticks like in Sims 3 Generations would be great.
Some are complaining that even the inclusion of LGBTQ+ individuals/couples in gameplay trailers is somehow too much and distracting despite the trailers I've seen never showing LGBTQ+ people being anywhere near the main focus of the entire trailer, nor are they the focus of the scene they're in anymore so than any portrayal of straight couples. It could be said that these instances of their inclusion might only seem amplified ironically because we aren't use to their representation in general. If the issue is due to the fact that it was seemingly made explicitly identifiable that the couple was same-s*x, then why aren't the same complaints made about the seemingly straight relationships that are depicted? I say this because if the same-s*x couples were replaced with straight couples, then the factor of representation wouldn't be a contributing mention to the overall sentiments of simply wanting more *actual gameplay* to be shown in trailers. When people ask as to "why," I only can imagine questioning in response of "why not" in this scenario, since the main takeaway isn't necessarily the sims themselves.
There's also another person who brought up an interesting point about the addition of pride flags implying that there was once discrimination against LGBTQ+ at some point within the sim lore, which I don't think is actually that far off the mark in way of exclusion (by today's standards)? The original sims game entirely opted out the allowance for same-s*x marriage despite it only acting as a symbolic, social interaction. The Sims 2 only allowed for same-s*x couples to "Join Union," and while it may have been functionally the same as heteros*xual marriage, there was the decision on Maxis' part to not only define the two actions differently, but also in having the act of "Join Union" slightly impact gameplay by providing less aspiration points to the same-s*x couple than the regularly married heteros*xual couple (according to the sims wiki).
On the contrary of what was implied earlier in this thread, the sims team did in fact include American, "'real life'" perceptions in their game at some point in time seen by this admission. Why bother renaming it if the game existed outside of real life culture? We also weren't able to create non-binary/transgender sims in games prior to Sims 4 either, which I think does justify some of the attention as its stand for the Sims 4's customization capabilities (customization of which is a valid feature that games do heavily advertise). I brought this up not to shame the prior games in any way, but to suggest that perhaps the lore needed for some to justify the addition of the pride items was already there.
I also don't really understand the insinuations that if the sims team weren't working on LGBTQ+ content, then they would most certainly be working on other aspects that would be seen as more crucial to gameplay. I can only think of three LGBTQ+ related additions to the game: pride items, gender customization, and possibly a pronouns update. The pride items were notably a *free* update made in collaboration with the "It Gets Better Project" to celebrate pride month... alongside other features such as stilt foundations, new door swatches, the randomize-traits button, and - the only considerably gameplay worthy feature included (if you consider sitting gameplay) - the lounge chair.
Not including the fact that pride update did include additions for other types of players, I think the pride items themselves show that not as much time was put into creating them as some people assume, as the meshes for most if not all clothes and Build/Buy objects were already there that just needed, from my understanding, a photoshopped pattern/image. I think the only new mesh created was the flag (I don't have the game installed to check), which is just a slightly wrapped, flat(?), rectangular mesh with an easily applied pattern on it, which I really don't think would take someone well versed in mesh-making as their job all that long to produce. In weighing the beneficial returns against the time and effort spent implementing suggested yet *freely* promised features, I think they might be prioritizing/pandering to the LGBTQ+ because it proved to be the easiest requests they'd be willing to meet for free in exchange for positive public perception based on both the pride items' quality and the gender customization update.
I don't have much knowledge on the creation of CAS items in general, so I could be wrong about how much work could of possibly went into what had seemed to be some sort of crudely batch-fix conversion for male/female items for the gender customization updates' initial release. However, it was (and maybe still is?) noticeable when I played around in CAS that there wasn't much effort was put into making the clothes morph onto the opposite gender frame to where it looks good/well-fitted, probably because that require a lot more effort than what they're probably willing to put into a free update. That's why it is probably easier for them to just implement the update in its "good enough" state that worked within their possible time constraints and claim the kudos for the progress they've done in this instance. Yes they've provided large gameplay updates for free like toddlers and sentiments (I guess?), but those always corresponded with the potential of generating revenue w/related game packs .
Overhauling the presently broken foundations of the game after putting it off for 7 years doesn't seem to have ever been in their top interests, and providing new, inspired gameplay is something they'd rather have you pay for. So it should then in part be relevant as to why they wouldn't really be inclined to add something like disabilities to the game, as physical disabilities might require animation overhauls for all aspects of a sims' movement. Mental disabilities can be experienced/interpreted differently by each individual, so inputting it into the game might not accurately depict the experience. Then there's the question of which disabilities to add and if its feasible. The Sims Medieval religions would be cool to see again in a modern rendition of the series, but even in general, adding religions, as someone else mentioned, is complicated because its up to individual perception. Clearly they have to make concessions where needed, as they ultimately aren't trying to, nor able to please all of us since its they're in it to turn a profit.
But yeah, I'm just speaking from my own opinion obviously, and sorry this being way too long for my first post on a game I don't even play anymore.
I appreciate what you are saying but they didn't make up anyone in the LGBTQ+ community. It's almost like yes, we are inclusive...just not those people. Though they did go with making a Sim who had trans from male to female into a pink room and pink decor as someone mentioned early in this thread. I don't know if that is true but they stereotyped women if they did. People want to be polite and cooperate but then the go down the road of well, we don't want religious people represented but we will accept a made up religious Sim. Ok, but is that inclusive, really? No.
Simself is impossible for millions and not just those of different faiths but those who are disabled physically. A lot people here bring up how they want more diversity in the game..but it's never those people in their very own towns,it's always some distant land they perhaps have not even visited nor ever will. It's why Simself is not true in TS4 and why it should be no more important than playing a Sim who happens to be just a Sim who has bad things or good things happen to them and has to deal. Perhaps *since so many tell me it's impossible to do" Simself gameplay should have never been a tag line at all.
ETA: But if Maxis wants to continue to claim people can play their Simselves they need to do something about tools such as gender patch, or the vampire attributes etc. to let people actually build their Simself from those type tools that could make them feel a little bit welcome. I think something like that such as tools like the gender patch expand the Simself gameplay for all other type people who really do see and feel left out of the Sim universe. Animations for a person who requires a wheelchair is a huge undertaking, I know, but really it's way past time they also get to play Simself or let Simself fall by the wayside and stop using it as the tagline. Maxis wasn't afraid to take on the gender patch, so, where is the compassion for those who are very unrepresented in TS4? It's always but that's too hard, or I don't want it, and or not those people, please...
....how? Straight relationships in The Sims are not going to go away any time soon. Neither will cisgenders and proper pronoun usage. Relax lol.
The game doesn't respect straight or gay relationships. Because both type Sims are Bi. I was in thread where someone was upset the game turned their gay Sim straight. I participated in that thread because the game had turned my straight Sim gay. Showing the game does whatever it wants and all Sims are Bi. It happens to be very annoying and why the 'never flirty' trait was demanded upon the request of those of us who were sick and tired of a gay or straight Sim switching preferences on a dime. However, the never flirty trait shouldn't have to be used to keep a Sim from picking the same or different gender. All that should have been set like in older games by the players, but if any Sim happens to be flirty in TS4 then there is a chance (very strong chance) our own Sim will be receptive and switch or actually just be Bi and neither straight or gay. So, no there is no representation in this game for gay or straight since all Sims are Bi.
Yeah, I feel the same for I know what she is hitting at but she is not being specific and not everything is about religion, race or gender. It as someone pointed about mother's day and it could also be about Father Day as well which is the under celebrated holiday versus Mother's Day (I do love my mama) and it could go on
To me, it just sounds like a poor implementation of romance and the lack of an attraction/preference system than like, actively throttling of non-pansexual relationships (like you can get an attraction only if you perform romantic interactions on specific Sims, but sometimes that doesn't work out either). A lot of things in Sims 4 aren't well-implemented, the attraction and preference "system" is one of them. Just like how pronouns in some moodlet descriptions are likely the result of an oversight than it is an active agenda to abolish pronouns.
I think honestly, the "ham-fisted" inclusion of lesbian couples in promotional material and LGTB flags are the least of the game's problems? They're easily content you can ignore, and they're very low effort to put into the game. Obviously, it's done to pander to a specific audience to an extent and probably score brownie points for EA execs, but I don't quite understand the fixation specifically on it? Practically any pack or new content EA puts out was created specifically to pander, such as its Star Wars content or skin tones. I also don't understand how the inclusion of LGBT content is any more political than more skin tone options, it's pretty much things people are in real life too. Furthermore, I don't understand a lot of complaints about the game's promotional material to begin with, it's also things you can ignore too, they won't impact your time playing the game and their purpose is to sell the game to you; maybe it's a bit cheesy and over-the-top but that's like the point of trailers.
Re the skin/hair updates, I feel like the originals were bugs, not features, especially since the draft for one of the hairs used some uncomfortable language. I think they needed to be fixed much sooner (tbh, they should've been fixed right from the start) and I consider the updates more bug fixes and mesh updates than the sims team being diverse.
I feel like a lot of concerns in the original post could be addressed as a 'hey sims team, could we have some gameplay to go along with all the cosmetic updates too' rather than what I read as 'hey sims team, could we please stop trying to be diverse'.
I don’t feel like it’s fair to say that there has been too big a focus on the lgbt community.
Looking at updates here (although it only goes to 2017)
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/886697/the-sims-4-complete-list-of-content-released
It’s easy to see that The Sims has been updating many aspects of the game since 2015.
Pool tools, terrain tools, adding different cultural items into gameplay, family trees, toddlers, christmas stuff (even before seasons) and yes some gender customization.
But gender customization is not an “lgbt” thing. It’s gameplay. I have played my Sims using the different options to just make sims however I want them to be.
I can make my girl a tomboy cause I can dress her in mens clothing now. I can also give men looooong beautiful hair and not feel limited to the “masculine hairstyles” or small selection of long hair they originally had.
I can also decide if I want my sim to pee standing or sitting down... that’s just a preference and has nothing to do with being lgbt hahaha.
Pronouns is not a set in stone thing yet. I hope it happens - it would add to my gameplay. However I also hope for cars and I hope for more social interactions between sims. I don’t think any group is getting more attention than another - we also had a skin overhaul recently which represents any person out there with skin...
I saw someone mentioning that religion shouldn’t be made up in Sims because “lgbts” weren’t made up... but that to me sounds like you would assume straight is the default orientation in real life and I don’t personally believe that. However, religion was made up by people. I’m not saying a god or gods were made up at all - I might not be religious, but I have respect for people who do believe.. but the religious texts were written by people. Lgbt people weren’t made up. They’ve always been around. It didn’t have to be written in text to be real.
I think these updates have brought me joy and freedom to my gameplay. I’m sorry if you don’t feel the same and I hope you get what you want one day. I just hope you won’t try to take away from one group of marginalized people in order to further your cause.
Imo the updates have been pretty inclusive so far. I’m sorry if you don’t see it that way.
I’m not here to discuss. It makes me anxious. I just saw this thread a few times and it made me pretty bummed out, so I felt the need to voice my opinion on it.
As a lesbian it made me so happy that I could finally make a couple of women and not have one of the women cheat in order for them to go through a pregnancy and have a baby. Before it was always either cheating or adoption... now I get to play with my imagination.
The Muslim community has hijabs, that burqini, the entire Oasis Courtyard KIt, and some base game architecture. They also have turbans.
Asians hav the entire Snowy Escape Pack and some of City Living.
(Take a grain of salt with this next one) The Amish community(ies) have the off-the-grid trait, Outdoor Retreat, and some clothes.
And thats just to name a few.
I get your message, I do. But I still find it offensive ot single out a group I'm a part of to say that we're ''over-represented''.
I'll close this topic here. This has been thoroughly discussed at this stage and it does not seem to be a discussion this community can have yet on the forums in a friendly, caring and understanding manner.
- EA_Lanna