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Recycled Animations in Eco Lifestyle

Comments

  • logionlogion Posts: 2,212 Member
    edited May 2020
    It‘s sad that a multi billion company would be so greedy and give their best selling franchise such a small budget that they have to recycle so many animations and objects.

    I can understand SimGuruGeorge feeling hurt. Imagine working on something for a year, putting all your energy in it, trying to figure out how to give the customers the best experience with the little resources available… only to have people hate it. I‘d be sad and take it personally too. He‘s just a human after all. When we talk about the absurd high amount of recycling and the little amount of new content, we should always make it a point that we don‘t blame the developers. I bet they would love to do more but the time and money restrictions put in place by some higher ups in suits just don’t allow it.

    I think it's sad too, I don't think EA realizes that Maxis makes so much more DLC than what a normal game developer studio does so they need more money and people. But let's not forget though that those people also need to be paid. I think Maxis are around 200 people, that is a lot of money to pay each month. And even if the sims4 is the best-selling game in the franchise, they can't be getting their money directly back, but over time.

    And if their budget is decided by how much EA thinks this will sell over time, then maybe that explains why they are reusing so many animations. EA does not think that this pack will sell.

    But that remains to be seen, I think this pack has a lot of good things in it, I'm not sure if it is Expansion Pack worthy, because the trailer does not show it...but I'm hoping that we will see it during the livestream.
  • beatlokbeatlok Posts: 4 New Member
    I honestly find this really aggravating. If sims 2 a game that is 15 years old was able to have unique and complex animations for everything than what excuse is there for sims 4? This game has been recycling content and animations throughout all its packs and somehow us the customer criticising this is "complaining"?

    We pay 40 bucks for this, why should we not have the right to voice our criticisms when all we get is the same content recycled over and over again, I mean would it kill them to make a few unique animations? I dont get people saying "animating is hard" yes I know but its their job and we pay them, they far more in the other games so I'm sorry that excuse just does not cut it.
  • CamkatCamkat Posts: 2,258 Member
    This bothers me less all the *poof an object is in your hand* that they do. Some of it for me, is that there is a limited range of motions for movements. I look the same typing on my desktop computer as when I use a lap top. When I bend down to pet my cat or dog, I probably look the same, or least very similar for each different pet. If I pick up and cuddle my hamster to my face, it will likely look the same again as if I was cuddling a grub. I just don't see the big deal in it if it saves them money to give us more depth or other animations. I'd rather see things like, a sim mixing a bowl of food and opening the counter drawer to get the spoon (like in TS2) but we're as likely to get that as we are to see them stop recycling animations.
    Origin ID: Peapod79
  • LoanetLoanet Posts: 3,313 Member
    I look at how they used a sort of vacuum to clean up pollution and considering how unrealistic it is anyway... well, I can live with it being the same as the Boss Battle animations in Strangerville. It's a vacuum cleaner. For pollution. I'm gonna stop demanding realism on this one.
    "I'm not saying Stuff Packs thrill me to my wretched, rotting core. I'm just saying that we only get one expansion pack a year because Devs only have one pair of hands. You want to buy more half-finished packs like Get To Work? Do you?"
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,849 Member
    edited May 2020
    I know the reusing of animations has been a thing in a few packs and I really don't understand it 'cause they don't really make up for it.

    What also bothers me is that the animations are not even that smooth. How does The Sims 2 have almost smoother animations than The Sims 4? It even came out in 2004, how is it possible?

    Don't believe me? Check this out:

    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • simfriend1968simfriend1968 Posts: 442 Member
    jimbbq wrote: »
    I am more worried about recycled gameplay. Like pipe organ in vampire is clearly recycled piano.

    Unless this comment was sarcastic, I don't think people are using the word 'recycle' correctly. If two things are similar to begin with, and both appear in the game, that is not recycling. Pipe organs and pianos both have keyboards. Players sit at them and manipulate the keyboards. I suppose for authenticity an organist should also be pumping the pedals but even when they do use the pedals, organists are still always using the keyboard like pianists do. That's why it was always so easy to find modded organs (which were reskinned pianos) in every Sims games since Sims 1. However, in the case of the organ from Vampires, the developers actually created a unique object with pipes and carvings which played organ music, including Bach's Toccata and Fugue (probably one of the most famous organ pieces ever).

    Plenty of times when people are complaining about gameplay or animations being recycled, they are just talking about inherent similarities. Just as an example, the cuddle animation for the bug and the cuddle animation for the hamster have a resemblance but that's because of the cuddling: if you look closely you see that the hands are positioned differently and the creature is held in a different relation to the sim (the hamster is directly in front of the sim, not beside). I don't think bugs should be cuddled at all, but the issue here is the cuddling itself not a recycled idea or animation.

    As for that comparison video based on the Eco Lifestyle trailer, which was posted on Twitter and reposted on Screen Rant, some of the comparisons of animations in it were ridiculous. How many ways can a sim be expected to write on a clipboard, operate a big machine, ride a bicycle, stand at a sale table? Unless you think there should never be any more machines, market stalls or bikes in a new expansion pack, what's the problem with similar things looking similar to each other? The most ridiculous image was the one of the lounge chairs, with the implication that this idea was being reused from Island Living -- except that lounge chairs are a basegame item, so having them in a screenshot is no different than showing a table or a couch or a bed.
  • jimbbqjimbbq Posts: 2,685 Member
    Just saying if i already have piano gameplay in my game , between choosing pipe organ( which is almost identical to piano) vs say I dunno drum (a lot different and novel) gameplay, I think the choice is clear for most simmers.
  • simfriend1968simfriend1968 Posts: 442 Member
    jimbbq wrote: »
    Just saying if i already have piano gameplay in my game , between choosing pipe organ( which is almost identical to piano) vs say I dunno drum (a lot different and novel) gameplay, I think the choice is clear for most simmers.

    I would like drums too. I wish they had come with University. But drums make no sense for a vampire pack, while creepy organ music does. So the choice was never, in that pack, between drums and an organ; it was between an organ and nothing. And, since we still don't have an upright piano, the organ remains a pretty unique object.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,849 Member
    I would like drums too. I wish they had come with University. But drums make no sense for a vampire pack, while creepy organ music does. So the choice was never, in that pack, between drums and an organ; it was between an organ and nothing. And, since we still don't have an upright piano, the organ remains a pretty unique object.

    @simfriend1968 So we got creepy vampire music but didn't get an creepy vampire animation for playing the music? I mean ofc they can recycle the normal "play the piano" but yall know how cool it would be if the vampires had their own unique creppy animations for the organ?
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • CK213CK213 Posts: 18,935 Member
    jimbbq wrote: »
    I am more worried about recycled gameplay. Like pipe organ in vampire is clearly recycled piano.

    Yeah, and how Discover University's service to Sprites feels too much like Island Living's service to Island Spirits.
    There are several forms of recycling here. The game play makes sense for island living to me, but forcing it on DU secret societies feels odd and I just don't like it. I will create my own secret societies using Get Together clubs instead.
    Olivia%20cosplay.jpg
  • simfriend1968simfriend1968 Posts: 442 Member
    I would like drums too. I wish they had come with University. But drums make no sense for a vampire pack, while creepy organ music does. So the choice was never, in that pack, between drums and an organ; it was between an organ and nothing. And, since we still don't have an upright piano, the organ remains a pretty unique object.

    @simfriend1968 So we got creepy vampire music but didn't get an creepy vampire animation for playing the music? I mean ofc they can recycle the normal "play the piano" but yall know how cool it would be if the vampires had their own unique creppy animations for the organ?

    I play the piano. Tell me, how would someone play creepily? Is the vampire supposed to pause every other minute to hiss or lift his hands higher or wave them about between notes somehow? Anyway, why would a developer waste time exaggerating piano movements when there was creepy stalking, vampire sparring, dark meditation etc to animate. Frankly, the animations in that pack are stunning in my opinion, and the inclusion of an organ for vampires to play, with actual organ music, was an inspired choice. As well, it's not recycling the "play the piano" animation to have a sim playing the keyboard of an organ since in real life those actions look the same.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,310 Member
    To me the problem is these devs don't actually play these games day after day after day. They work on them and are probably aware of the same animations being reused. However, they aren't seeing them day after day after day, unless they are the animator. They forget their 'fans' aka consumers (*thousands) play a game every day if not all day. Yes, people do that if they have the time because unfortunately games become addictive to some people to where they can tell you every line of every game or whatever. So, when consumers complain it's the same animation, it's the same setup, it's the same couch, it's the same object just renamed and reskinned, or whatever, they should listen, because they have to know their fans see this all day, every day, and year after year. It's no small thing to consumers.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,310 Member
    edited May 2020
    I know the reusing of animations has been a thing in a few packs and I really don't understand it 'cause they don't really make up for it.

    What also bothers me is that the animations are not even that smooth. How does The Sims 2 have almost smoother animations than The Sims 4? It even came out in 2004, how is it possible?

    Don't believe me? Check this out:


    Frankly, better team, more care, more time, better at what they do. Not to be rude but just because someone has been there for many years doesn't mean they animated something. Teams matter.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,032 Member
    edited May 2020
    I know the reusing of animations has been a thing in a few packs and I really don't understand it 'cause they don't really make up for it.

    What also bothers me is that the animations are not even that smooth. How does The Sims 2 have almost smoother animations than The Sims 4? It even came out in 2004, how is it possible?

    Don't believe me? Check this out:


    No I don't. Because that's not proof that the animations of TS4 aren't smooth. You don't know what hardware this youtuber is running the game in or what recording method/program they used. From my experience the animations of TS4 are much smother than shown in that video, you can clearly tell that they aren't using the best resolution either for TS4. TS2 will run smoothly on most PC's nowadays, even on the ones that have considerable weaker specs. In what comes to movement and points of manipulation on the skeleton TS3 and TS4 are clearly ahead of TS2.

    That video is just to showcase the differences between the direction of the animation throughout the games. You can see that for the same thing they have different "styles", some goofier than others.
    Post edited by Sigzy05 on
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  • PlayerSinger2010PlayerSinger2010 Posts: 2,615 Member
    I don't care. I've never cared about reused animations.
  • FlpAmaralFlpAmaral Posts: 216 Member
    edited May 2020
    I know the reusing of animations has been a thing in a few packs and I really don't understand it 'cause they don't really make up for it.

    What also bothers me is that the animations are not even that smooth. How does The Sims 2 have almost smoother animations than The Sims 4? It even came out in 2004, how is it possible?

    Don't believe me? Check this out:


    That video is funny because you can also see that a lot of The Sims 3 animations are basically recycled from The Sims 2 :lol:
  • logionlogion Posts: 2,212 Member
    edited May 2020
    jimbbq wrote: »
    I am more worried about recycled gameplay. Like pipe organ in vampire is clearly recycled piano.

    Unless this comment was sarcastic, I don't think people are using the word 'recycle' correctly. If two things are similar to begin with, and both appear in the game, that is not recycling. Pipe organs and pianos both have keyboards. Players sit at them and manipulate the keyboards. I suppose for authenticity an organist should also be pumping the pedals but even when they do use the pedals, organists are still always using the keyboard like pianists do. That's why it was always so easy to find modded organs (which were reskinned pianos) in every Sims games since Sims 1. However, in the case of the organ from Vampires, the developers actually created a unique object with pipes and carvings which played organ music, including Bach's Toccata and Fugue (probably one of the most famous organ pieces ever).

    Plenty of times when people are complaining about gameplay or animations being recycled, they are just talking about inherent similarities. Just as an example, the cuddle animation for the bug and the cuddle animation for the hamster have a resemblance but that's because of the cuddling: if you look closely you see that the hands are positioned differently and the creature is held in a different relation to the sim (the hamster is directly in front of the sim, not beside). I don't think bugs should be cuddled at all, but the issue here is the cuddling itself not a recycled idea or animation.

    As for that comparison video based on the Eco Lifestyle trailer, which was posted on Twitter and reposted on Screen Rant, some of the comparisons of animations in it were ridiculous. How many ways can a sim be expected to write on a clipboard, operate a big machine, ride a bicycle, stand at a sale table? Unless you think there should never be any more machines, market stalls or bikes in a new expansion pack, what's the problem with similar things looking similar to each other? The most ridiculous image was the one of the lounge chairs, with the implication that this idea was being reused from Island Living -- except that lounge chairs are a basegame item, so having them in a screenshot is no different than showing a table or a couch or a bed.

    I think the problems are that they are marketing these animations as new features, and that does not go well for people who recognize those animations from other packs that they paid for. Especially not if they think that the animations or the feature does not fit the pack.

    I really don't like the "magical gun" that fixes pollution for example because there are just too many reused things with it and I find the whole concept that you could fix pollution with a hand-held device absurd. So me as a customer see an item that I do not think should have been in the pack and I also recognize the item from when I was in the garden in the game, or when I played StrangerVille or Discover University. And the way they show it in the trailer you would think that this item is the ultimate goal to make, a thing that we have seen in multiple packs already.

    And when people start seeing things like that, they are starting to see things like that everywhere and then we all focus on the negative instead of the new things. The civil designer seems to use a new fabricator for example, and that looks fairly new.

  • RavenSpitRavenSpit Posts: 996 Member
    recycling animations and mechanics is normal and valid to a point, as with most things...
    unfortunately by now this has happened way too much in the Sims4, otherwise it wouldn't bother that many people cause not that many people would even notice.
    Maybe it's because I personally just love good animations, but this is valid criticism imho, since the recycling of animations and "easy way out" of animations (or lack of any) is blatantly obvious by now.
    Not saying we don't get any new and good animations at all, no we do and I love that, but sadly never enough to balance out the recycled/"lazy" animations.

    It doesn't upset me as much as it makes me wonder why that is, I don't think the animators aren't skilled enough, cause there are many animations that are really nice imho, if I had to guess I'd bet it's budget and time (deadlines) that do this...
    Gallery ID: ra7orrat

  • popstarsleypopstarsley Posts: 1,086 Member
    For me, it is irksome when it feels like they make gameplay choices *based* on available animations instead of coming up with something novel. Like, let’s make a polluting dust buster just because we have that sucking repo man and strangerville boss gun animation available. Instead of thinking of an entirely different idea, it’s like they make decisions based on what’s already available.

    Just like the Strangerville serum and the vampire cure. They all use the “throw drink” animation. Like those are in no way the *same* gameplay. Kind of a telling choice to use the same animations.

    P.S. I fully admit I’m on team conspiracy when it comes to a knitting pack suddenly “winning” shortly after a knitting animation appeared in Uni. Maybe coincidence, or maybe they just gave us options to vote on based on animations they knew they had. 🤷🏽‍♀️🤪
  • simfriend1968simfriend1968 Posts: 442 Member
    For me, it is irksome when it feels like they make gameplay choices *based* on available animations instead of coming up with something novel. Like, let’s make a polluting dust buster just because we have that sucking repo man and strangerville boss gun animation available. Instead of thinking of an entirely different idea, it’s like they make decisions based on what’s already available.

    Just like the Strangerville serum and the vampire cure. They all use the “throw drink” animation. Like those are in no way the *same* gameplay. Kind of a telling choice to use the same animations.

    P.S. I fully admit I’m on team conspiracy when it comes to a knitting pack suddenly “winning” shortly after a knitting animation appeared in Uni. Maybe coincidence, or maybe they just gave us options to vote on based on animations they knew they had. 🤷🏽‍♀️🤪

    Ugh that knitting animation from Discover University is hideous with those ridiculously short, knobby needles. If that is what knitting looks like in the final version of the Nifty Knitting Pack, I will be really disappointed.

  • BobisbaeBobisbae Posts: 236 Member
    I'll say reused animation likely lead to reused interactions which is just what the Sims 4 is all about. It's not a make or break for me but it's definately noticeable and abit dissapointing.

    EX: Shower Woohoo in DU
  • SimsLovinLycanSimsLovinLycan Posts: 1,783 Member
    The thing is, I don't mind when they recycle animations when it makes sense to do so. For instance, re-using the guitar playing animations for a banjo would make sense, so I wouldn't be against that. But, some animations, like certain talk-interaction animations, get re-used a little too often and it can get a little grating at times. No matter what my sims are talking about, all of their gestures and expressions are exactly the same...and it takes some of the fun out of watching them interact with each other. A few new ones to spice up the conversations would be nice.

    So, because of budgets and the fact that if you have one animation that works well for multiple situations, recycling animations isn't so bad. But, it shouldn't be done too frequently, or people will get annoyed with it.
    There is a song I hear, a melody from the past...
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    When I woke for the first time, when I slept for the last.
  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,032 Member
    edited May 2020
    Bobisbae wrote: »
    I'll say reused animation likely lead to reused interactions which is just what the Sims 4 is all about. It's not a make or break for me but it's definately noticeable and abit dissapointing.

    EX: Shower Woohoo in DU

    I'm still annoyed that they didn't even make sims take their clothes off before entering the shower. That is one fine example where a re-used animation actually does harm, because it breaks immersion.
    Post edited by Sigzy05 on
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  • nerdfashionnerdfashion Posts: 5,795 Member
    I honestly think people over-react about it. Recycled animations are actually a really good way to save money and add more gameplay into the pack because they're not spending half their budget on them.
    tumblr_n1yxrjxXD81toamj8o1_500.gif
  • WulfsimmerWulfsimmer Posts: 4,381 Member
    I honestly think people over-react about it. Recycled animations are actually a really good way to save money and add more gameplay into the pack because they're not spending half their budget on them.

    I've never ever seen a fanbase so commited to saving money for a business lol. The packs are paid with a large markup. They're doing well with the profits and already save tons of money with the amount of cut corners, trust me :)


    I discussed this in my replies to tweets but I'll mention it again, isn't a significant portion of The Sims gameplay...animations? Other than progression and building, live mode is literally based on animations.
    Random-gifs-random-18723411-368-312.gif

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