May 29 - It's Friday. What does that mean on The Sims forums? Time to highlight some awesim discussions!

I Think I'm Going to Leave the Forums

It's getting so frustrating seeing so many negative posts about how horrible Maxis is or EA is or Sims 4 is. I know I'm not being forced to read those threads but it's irritating to see so many negative titles keep popping up. We're all entitled to our opinions but really, if Sims 4 is so terrible or if Maxis and EA are treating you so wrong, why are you playing? I genuinely don't understand.

I can tell you that if I were a Sims Dev, I wouldn't even come in here. Why would I come in to find that so many people are belittling all of my hard work? Why would I respond to anybody if I'm unappreciated? You have a problem with something I did? Fine, don't call me a fail or accuse me of not wanting feedback. Stop whining and complaining and in a mature way, explain your issue so maybe I can fix it. That's how I would be if I were a dev.

Not to mention that the complainers really make up probably about 1-2% of the entire sales and yet so many of the threads on here. So all you're really doing is discouraging people from chatting in here. You're not making a difference to the company. They've stopped listening to you a long time ago.

As it is, I work in customer service for a large corporation so I can tell you that people who call us and whine and complain and criticize rarely hang up any happier than when they first called in. Because we simply shut out most of what they say, comment their account with something like "was rude and obnoxious" or "was arrogant and insulting" or something similar. That means that any time that person called back in, the next customer service agent read that note as well. And if the customer has a long list of those comments, our reponse is something like "I'm sorry but there's nothing I can do about that. Have a nice day."

On the other hand, if the customer called in and was polite and respectful, we note that to their account as well and bend over backwards to keep them satisfied.

What I'm saying is, why would anybody try to do anything for someone who only wants to insult what they've already worked hard to do?

That old saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" which essentially means that if someone complains long enough they get what they want just to get them to shut up isn't true anymore. It's been abused so much that we've come up with another saying; "the squeaky mouse usually gets eaten by a cat." Which means that we don't have to do anything. Eventually the cat will do it.

So if you want the devs to start coming back in here and start responding again, try a little kindness and respect. And do not say "I'm the customer and the customer is always right." We get customers that say that and they usually get transferred to every department in the company until they finally just hang up.

I'm not trying to offend anybody, I'm just tired of so many people offending the devs who created this game that I happen to love playing.

Now if you want to have a respectful conversation, I'll gladly talk with you. If you can't be respectful, I'll likely just ignore your post and go on with my day. It's nothing personal, that's just how I deal with disrespect.
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/799243/the-truth-about-sims-whos-pulling-your-strings#latest

This story helped me become a member!!! Thanks to all of you who have enjoyed it and given feedback!

Comments

  • mustenimusteni Posts: 3,877 Member
    I have sometimes gotten frustruated here as well. My best advice would be to block the people whose posts irritate you. For me that helped a lot. Of course sometimes a break can also work, I wish you well!
    Short Sim Stories: https://simsimseree.wordpress.com/
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  • KathykinsKathykins Posts: 1,049 Member
    I understand the frustration. I've had to take breaks from this place, because the negativity got to me. Its not always easy to ignore and move on, especially when the negative posts/threads seem to spread to all corners of the forums, and "every" thread is "infested" by it. Thing is, I really don't want to block people either, because the same people also contribute to the discussions, and I've enjoyed their posts. Blocking is not a good sulution, I'd rather just stay away myself.

    There are plenty things that doesn't work the way they should, so many bugs I've lost count. Also lost count on the number of mods I've had to install to fix those bugs, because I can't wait anymore for a fix from Eaxis. Intended features in the game that makes me think "WHAT in the world were they thinking??" (Sims isn't the only game where that thought hits me, though....) I got mods for those features too.

    Why not give feedback (or complain) and post about bugs on the AHQ? There's very little fellow simmers can do, and fellow simmers are the ones who read the forum. Not many of the devs do. If any at all these days. Whatever you have to say, its more likely to be heard there. The more people who post bug reports or chime in on excisting ones, the better.
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  • DoloresGreyDoloresGrey Posts: 2,428 Member
    edited April 6
    If you feel like it just go ahead. I am planning on leavign once the community pack polls are over. Though my reason for leaving these forums is totally different.
    I really liked it here, amazing people, amazing mods (especially Mai <3), cool threads and polls, super good pictures and such sweet sim families.
    But a few months ago I started to notice something very shady going on (and I was not the only one ho did) and though I blocked that person I can still see their posts on the Activity wall which is odd when I have put them in my ignore list.
  • mustenimusteni Posts: 3,877 Member
    Kathykins wrote: »
    I understand the frustration. I've had to take breaks from this place, because the negativity got to me. Its not always easy to ignore and move on, especially when the negative posts/threads seem to spread to all corners of the forums, and "every" thread is "infested" by it. Thing is, I really don't want to block people either, because the same people also contribute to the discussions, and I've enjoyed their posts. Blocking is not a good sulution, I'd rather just stay away myself.

    There are plenty things that doesn't work the way they should, so many bugs I've lost count. Also lost count on the number of mods I've had to install to fix those bugs, because I can't wait anymore for a fix from Eaxis. Intended features in the game that makes me think "WHAT in the world were they thinking??" (Sims isn't the only game where that thought hits me, though....) I got mods for those features too.

    Why not give feedback (or complain) and post about bugs on the AHQ? There's very little fellow simmers can do, and fellow simmers are the ones who read the forum. Not many of the devs do. If any at all these days. Whatever you have to say, its more likely to be heard there. The more people who post bug reports or chime in on excisting ones, the better.

    With blocking you can still click the post and read it, it's not like it completely erases the person. So if you think it's a good conversation you want to read then go ahead. Also maybe depending on what kind of day you're having and if you think you can handle it :)
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  • xamira99xamira99 Posts: 2,831 Member
    I do understand your frustration & it's totally up to you if you feel that there's nothing useful that would make your experience here better. I personally do come over here from time to time to share my opinions on the current issues, because sometimes, it's nice to share what you did, your experience, your opinion, etc with others.

    So, talking about this franchise, with 20 years of experience & maybe a few engagements with the consumers, it won't make them untouchable. Sometimes, it's important to let them know & provide feedbacks because we want this franchise to be more successful than before. Since you've experience working as a front-liner, I believe that you know that there will always be a happy & angry customers/consumers. And so do the Simmers. It takes a great person to be able to engage with different type of customers/consumers, because after all, everyone just want to be heard & understood.

    I play this game for more than half of my life, and I believe, so do the majority of the Simmers too. Hence, that's the reason why you can see there's a lot of threads that comparing or sharing what would be better if this or that to be added in this and that. And I would say that those who's been complaining about this game is not as little as the 1-2% of the entire sales as you've claimed. On the flip side, it is the EA who has been refocusing their marketing strategy to expand their market group (with sales, free base game, different platform, etc).

    Besides, I would say that, if the developers stopped listening due to negative feedbacks, they won't be able to improve their product quality because as I read some of the threads, there're a lot of unique ideas & logical opinion where they could take it & learn from that. On top of that, there're forum moderator who monitors the forum & will block or delete any offensive comments as well as there're forum rules that apply to everyone who would want to participate in this forum. So, I would say that, you don't need to worry about what the developers/EA are thinking because I'm pretty sure, they know what they need to do especially if they want to reach another great milestone. :)
    And now here is my secret, a very simple secret...
    giphy.gif



  • SimmervilleSimmerville Posts: 7,922 Member
    I rarely read other threads than feature specific stuff, as this game is huge and there would actually be lots of stuff I'd missed if it was not for these forums. And, I prefer to play my game rather than spend all those hours on the forums. Sure, I can find some info elsewhere on the web, but it's hard to google anything you don't know exists. Negative statements are fine with me, and I might have posted a few myself, but it's not to show disrespect, but in hoping for some fixes or fine tuning, or simply to get advise from other simmers. In this matter, I must say the sims community is fantastic!
    Simmerville on Youtube | My blog is updated weekly: Simmerville's Sims
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  • OEII1001OEII1001 Posts: 3,133 Member
    I understand how you feel. This community can be hard to deal with, and frequently so. I can't tell you what to do, nor should I, but I can tell you what works for me.

    1. Turn Notifications Off -- You'll remember what threads interest you, and you can also avoid having the forum tap you on the shoulder every time someone says that your fun is wrong.
    2. Make Liberal Use of the Ignore Feature -- You can really amplify the notification silence by using this feature to filter out people who will not, or cannot, play nice with others.
    3. Use The Rule of Three -- Engage with someone, no matter how good their intentions seem, with no more than three rounds of discussion. A "round" in this case is one pair of post and response. That's plenty of time for each of you to get your point across, while cutting the conversation off before it becomes more of a frustrated shouting match because each of you haven't abandoned your own positions in favor of the other's.

    Doing those three things has, in my experience, made the inherently intolerable internet gaming space much more so. It may prove to be something that you might consider adopting rather than leaving the boards.
  • PenguinFoopPenguinFoop Posts: 232 Member
    musteni wrote: »
    I have sometimes gotten frustruated here as well. My best advice would be to block the people whose posts irritate you. For me that helped a lot. Of course sometimes a break can also work, I wish you well!

    Blocking the people isn't really an answer because part of the frustration is that I want the same things that everyone else wants but the ones that can give it to us simply have little incentive to listen when all they hear is that the hard work that they have put into it is garbage. If I block them, that doesn't keep the devs from reading the posts. And I want them to read the forums and see the legitimate issues but if all they actually see is that they're complete failures, how does that motivate them? All it would do to me is irritate me. As a dev I would be looking for insight, not insult.
    Kathykins wrote: »
    I understand the frustration. I've had to take breaks from this place, because the negativity got to me. Its not always easy to ignore and move on, especially when the negative posts/threads seem to spread to all corners of the forums, and "every" thread is "infested" by it. Thing is, I really don't want to block people either, because the same people also contribute to the discussions, and I've enjoyed their posts. Blocking is not a good sulution, I'd rather just stay away myself.

    I agree with this point. What I am saying is please do contribute to the conversation but in a constructive manner.
    Kathykins wrote: »
    There are plenty things that doesn't work the way they should, so many bugs I've lost count. Also lost count on the number of mods I've had to install to fix those bugs, because I can't wait anymore for a fix from Eaxis. Intended features in the game that makes me think "WHAT in the world were they thinking??" (Sims isn't the only game where that thought hits me, though....) I got mods for those features too.

    There are going to be bugs sure. Personally, on the console, I am unable to use mods but fortunately have not seen any issues that are devastating to game play so can't really comment on that.
    Kathykins wrote: »
    Why not give feedback (or complain) and post about bugs on the AHQ? There's very little fellow simmers can do, and fellow simmers are the ones who read the forum. Not many of the devs do. If any at all these days. Whatever you have to say, its more likely to be heard there. The more people who post bug reports or chime in on excisting ones, the better.

    This is exactly my point! give feedbak but it can be done without insult. Constructive criticism is a good thing and very welcome to most people.

    I am not sure what AHQ. And like you just said, not may of the devs read the forums if any at all these days. Because for 20 years they been insulted and their work called trash. I'd stop reading too so that I don't get too frustrated and just quit all together.

    The tragedy is that there are legitimate ideas, issues and suggestions in here but sometimes all you can hear is complain complain whine complain whine insult. What you need to hear you aren't hearing because all you can hear is the whining.
    "If Sims 4 is so terrible or if Maxis and EA are treating you so wrong, why are you playing? I genuinely don't understand."
    - There is no alternative life simulator at the moment
    - Many have spent a great deal of money on the game and subsequently view walking away as a waste
    - Many enjoy particular aspects of the game despite what they view as flaws elsewhere
    - Many still hope that fixes or improvements will come with future updates
    - Many are older players who are frustrated but unwilling to give up on it entirely at this point
    - You can like something and still criticise it

    Understandable and well put and your last point on that list is exactly true! Criticism is good. What is not good is insulting the devs and being infantile about their work. My mother loves to draw and paint. When she feels like a portrait or something doesn't quite feel right to her, she'll ask for my input. I don't tell her that it's a total fail. I don't accuse her of hiding from feedback. I tell her what I like about it and what I think looks off. It's how we should all react with one another.
    "Stop whining and complaining and in a mature way, explain your issue so maybe I can fix it."
    There's five years worth of people being mature, constructive and kind about these matters in the form of blogs, posts, threads, articles and videos, and the team has only recently put out a survey asking about some of the features players have wanted over all that time (with Grant saying afterwards it was a bit of a mess because people wanted everything on it). People are angry because they feel they are not being listened to. The Maxis team is part of a multi-million dollar company that does not need defending. Yes, people should be polite, but a lack of acknowledgement from the team is what has a lot of them irritated.

    There's a good point right there. So five years of the devs trying to put everything on it because that's what people wanted. Well, obviously they are trying to please everyone, obviously they've been trying to for five years. So after five years of work which has led to more bugs and issues that they now have to fix before release, what they hear is that they are failures who are hiding from feedback. Apparently they did accept the feed back otherwise they couldn't say because people wanted everything on it.

    Also, you're looking a very short time frame. Do you think that the insults and rude remarks started at Maxis just 5 years ago? I think not. They started with Sims 1. So to you, it's been five years. To them it's been five generations. Just a little perspective.

    And you're absolutely right, they don't need defending. I am not trying to defend them as much as I am trying to get people to understand things from a perspective other than their own. Let's look at your own feedback to this post. If I just told it it was a total fail and starting insulting it and you.

    How willing would you be to hearing anything else I've got to say? I'd bet you wouldn't be that willing at all and would simply do one of two things; respond in kind so that nothing gets resolved and we both end up not liking each other or eventually give up. After all, if you can't get me to consider your points, why even bother with it?
    "They've stopped listening to you a long time ago."
    Which makes the problem worse. Ignoring these complainers doesn't make them go away, which is why there are still so many negative threads here, it riles them up further. The team's own responses aren't very mature either. When the backlash first hit after the game was released the team threatened their own player base, saying there would be no Sims 5 if 4 didn't sell, and from there they've gone on to largely ignore them. They still haven't responded to the many users who were upset with the 20th anniversary, some of whom were their own game changers.

    Yes, respect goes both ways. But honestly, 20th anniversary, that means that for at least 20 years they've been dealing with some people (not all obviously) personally insulting them and their work. How would you feel after 20 years of hearing that?

    So was them saying that there would be no Sims 5 if Sims 4 didn't sell a threat or just common sense. From a business aspect, if a product stops being profitable, it typically gets discontinued depending on how little profit it makes. Take a TV series for example, a series that you personally love abruptly comes to an end without warning. You're left scratching your head wondering what happened. Someone says that it's because the series lost too many viewers and simply wasn't generating a profit anymore. To you that makes little sense because most of your friends watch it faithfully. Unfortunately, you and your friends only make up a small percentage of the entire market. If Sim 4 fails massively, then perhaps it is a sign that the entire franchise is coming to the end of its lifespan. It's not an threat, it's an accounting matter.
    "That old saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" which essentially means that if someone complains long enough they get what they want just to get them to shut up isn't true anymore."
    EA literally restructured the entire core of a major title (SWB2) because enough people complained about their practices. Bioware was also forced to respond to complaints after enough people caught onto what they were doing with Anthem after the expose.

    You're missing the broader point, I'm afraid. People accuse Sims devs of ignoring the people right now. How long before these others start doing the same? Abuse me long enough and one of two things is going to happen, I'm gonna go on attack or I'm gonna walk away. Neither of which will solve your issue. (not you personally but the abuser in general)

    Also like you said earlier, they've been working on this for at least 5 years. Longer really when you think about all of the time they put into it before the release.
    mock68 wrote: »
    I have to say I rarely read the sims 4 forums as I find the posts completely opposite and childish.
    All the 'brown nosing' of the mods etc makes me want to tear my hair out at times and I can't be doing with it, maybe I am too old now.
    I am more bored with the actual sims 4 game and I wish they had kept going with sims 3, which I felt was far superior to sims 4 in every way.

    I agree with you. Giving someone false encouragement is just a damaging as whining and calling them a failure who hides from feedback. So I'm with you there.

    As far as Sims 3 goes. I agree to a degree. I love Sims 3 and always will. Fortunately, if I want to play Sims 3, I still can but this is Sims 4. Sims 3 has had a successful life and just like everything else, it's time for it to retire and let the next generation shine. By the way, back with Sims 3, the insults and rude destructive attacks were prevalent as well.

    ***********************************************
    Do see what we're doing here? We being civil. We're hearing what others are saying and we're responding in constructive and supportive ways. This makes the criticism constructive, not destructive. Thank you for your respect and I hope I have given you the same in return. <3
    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/799243/the-truth-about-sims-whos-pulling-your-strings#latest

    This story helped me become a member!!! Thanks to all of you who have enjoyed it and given feedback!
  • NetzspannungNetzspannung Posts: 1,669 Member
    I can definitely understand the impulse to stay away from the negativity. I thought about taking a break from the forums a few times actually, because I also believe that legitimate criticism has nothing to do with - sometimes quite personal - insults. I try to not get pulled into any kind of drama and succeed on most days. :)
    But the other side of the coin is that the forum is also a place of inspiration, excitement and knowledge and I don't want to miss out on that or the opportunity to contribute in my small way. So I stick around for my inner child while trying to be a grown-up about it. :D
    If I just posted an outfit you like, I have good news - there is more where that came from!
    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required

    we all try ...
  • KathykinsKathykins Posts: 1,049 Member
    I can definitely understand the impulse to stay away from the negativity. I thought about taking a break from the forums a few times actually, because I also believe that legitimate criticism has nothing to do with - sometimes quite personal - insults. I try to not get pulled into any kind of drama and succeed on most days. :)
    But the other side of the coin is that the forum is also a place of inspiration, excitement and knowledge and I don't want to miss out on that or the opportunity to contribute in my small way. So I stick around for my inner child while trying to be a grown-up about it. :D

    I agree with everything, but especially the bolded part. I do stick around, because there is a lot of inspiration and knowledge here. Simmers know their game, and love to share what's happening (can't do without my dose of fav/last screenshot every day! also should check out your thread again, because its inspiring). Meanwhile, I will maybe not care as much about the negativity, because all the positive stuff outweighs (?) it.

    I'll also very much consider the good advice from @OEII1001

    Hoping everyone has a good, and constructive, Easter week!
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  • PenguinFoopPenguinFoop Posts: 232 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    We're all entitled to our opinions but really, if Sims 4 is so terrible or if Maxis and EA are treating you so wrong, why are you playing?

    I am not. I am back to playing The Sims 2 and The Sims 3. As a) my The Sims 4 is broken b) I can not get it refunded and c) I am a loyal customer for the last 20 years, I think I have the right to post on the forums, including negative threads and express my opinions.

    Thank you for pointing out my points. As for your responses, please do not misinterpret what I post. Thank you. As I said, we are entitled to our opinions, I am not nor have I even implied in any way shape or form that you do not have the right to express your opinions. Please don't characterize me as having said such. It's non-productive. Also, please refrain from cherry picking portions of my post to make it sound as if I'm saying something I am not. Read my entire post. My post explains what I am saying quite clearly I think. The issue is not voicing a negative opinion. The issue is being insulting and rude. If you have not read any posts (which you say later in your response to the butchered quote of mine, it won't be hard to find. Simply do a search for the word "fail" or "garbage" or any of the insulting words and see how many posts and comments come up. At the moment, few of those threads are on the first page in the forums list but they will pop up soon enough.
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Why would I respond to anybody if I'm unappreciated?

    If all you expect is praise and shut off any negative feedback how are you going to improve your work in the first place?

    Again, please do not misquote me. If you read what I was said just before that question, it becomes quite clear that what I am saying. I am saying that I want feed back but why would I respond if I'm unappreciated? This has nothing to do with only wanting positive feedback. I am not a politician. This has to do with the way in which you communicate to me. Again, read my entire post and it is quite clear what I am saying.
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Fine, don't call me a fail or accuse me of not wanting feedback.

    No-one is calling anyone names. In fact you can get banned for that.

    Once again, please do not misquote or take what I am saying out of context. Read the statements leading up to this and you will see that I said if I were a Sims Dev... I was obviously, unless my quote was cherry-picked and misquoted, not speaking of any personal insults on me. I was again, explaining that if I was a Sims Dev this is how I would feel.
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Not to mention that the complainers really make up probably about 1-2% of the entire sales and yet so many of the threads on here.

    Because unhappy customers seek an outlet of a way to tell you why they're unhappy and how to improve. For some games that is done in Steam forums. Others have their personal discords, or you can communicate with development team during streams. For this game it's the forums.

    Whenever I have an issue with a game I always try to find the easiest outlet to give an opinion back. As reddit is not led by The Sims team, they don't interact with The Sims 3 steam forums, do not have a discord and Twitter is split to about 40 different development accounts, the easiest outlet is here.

    I understand this and agree with it. However, my entire post is again, not about criticizing those who have an issue and need to express it. That is fine and important for game improvement. I again am talking about the way in which the issue is expressed. constructive criticism should always be welcome.
    mirta000 wrote: »
    As it is, I work in customer service for a large corporation so I can tell you that people who call us and whine and complain and criticize rarely hang up any happier than when they first called in. Because we simply shut out most of what they say, comment their account with something like "was rude and obnoxious" or "was arrogant and insulting" or something similar. That means that any time that person called back in, the next customer service agent read that note as well. And if the customer has a long list of those comments, our reponse is something like "I'm sorry but there's nothing I can do about that. Have a nice day."

    Sounds like a great way to lose customers.

    Again the point appears to be missed. I work for a massive corporation. Do you honestly think that losing 1-2% of our customers is going to hurt out bottom line? Transpose that to Maxis and you get the same thing. Again, if I was a Sims Dev I'd just shrug it off and focus on the other 98-99%.
    mirta000 wrote: »
    What I'm saying is, why would anybody try to do anything for someone who only wants to insult what they've already worked hard to do?

    I'm yet to see these insults that you keep on speaking of.

    Again, I am not speaking of insults to people in the chat. Please read the entirety of my post. I am speaking of insults thrown at the devs that are working hard to give us this game.
    mirta000 wrote: »
    So if you want the devs to start coming back in here and start responding again, try a little kindness and respect.

    You are not a Maxis or EA representative, so do not give people false orders under assumption as to what you think the developer team will do if the customers do Y or Z. That's the same as saying "they'll make expansion X if we give them 50 000 likes on youtube and send them 1000 cupcakes!".

    When did I ever say that I am a Maxis or EA representative? Trying to express what I would do if I were a Sim Dev hardly implies that I am trying to be a Maxis or EA representative. Furthermore, what "false orders" have I given anyone? Again, please don't mischaracterize my post. I did not say that they will definitely come back nor did I say I have to do anything to do with that. I simply said if you want X to happen, then try Y.

    If I used the old quote "If you want to catch a fly, try sugar instead of vinegar" do you honestly think that I'm acting as a representative of the fly community? I am simply saying let's try a different approach.

    Again, please don't miquote or take anything I've said out of context. Thank you.
    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/799243/the-truth-about-sims-whos-pulling-your-strings#latest

    This story helped me become a member!!! Thanks to all of you who have enjoyed it and given feedback!
  • DrakosDrakos Posts: 351 Member
    I agree OP, I just dont participate in these forums much any more. I check in for news and have the worst offenders on ignore so the forum is pretty quiet.
  • MissyHissyMissyHissy Posts: 1,824 Member
    I frequently take breaks from here for all the reasons you mentioned. There's constructive criticisum, then there's simple animosity and I think it frequently drifts over that line. I join in threads occasionally but these days, I'm ignoring the angry, complaining threads because 99% of the time, I'm not going to agree or experience what they are. Maybe I'm playing the game differently to those who are angry; or maybe I look for different things from the game. I don't know.

    I genuinely enjoy the game and to be perfectly honest, I don't come up against a good 95% of the bugs, glitches or issues other people report. Maybe I'm lucky - or maybe I don't view those things as bugs. Whatever it is, I don't understand the hatred that is directed at the game but particularly the developers.

    OP, I agree with what you said about how you'd feel if you were a developer. One of my best friends from senior school is studying to be a game developer and he's said the same things you have. Where there's respect and appreciation but constructive feedback, he'd be more than happy to respond and acknowledge. When it comes to personal insults, forget it. That's a position that makes sense.

    For those who say there's no rival for the Sims; there's always the previous generations. If Sims 4 makes you angry, or isn't your cup of tea, maybe try one of those instead? Just a thought.

    Again, I agree with what you said about respect. Courtesy and manners cost nothing, after all. I'm sorry you feel you have to leave the forum but I can udnerstand why. <3
    MiAqoAE.png
  • PenguinFoopPenguinFoop Posts: 232 Member
    "So five years of the devs trying to put everything on it because that's what people wanted."
    The thing is that The Sims 2 included the majority of the features that were in that survey within two expansion packs. Memories, fury, interests, chemistry, all done by Nightlife. Memories and interests were base game. Past teams put out more in depth AI over almost two decades ago at a fraction of the price. What a lot of people want has literally been done before, for less money and in a much shorter amount of time.

    "Also, you're looking a very short time frame. Do you think that the insults and rude remarks started at Maxis just 5 years ago? I think not. They started with Sims 1. So to you, it's been five years. To them it's been five generations. Just a little perspective."
    I've been playing the series for twenty years and I have never seen a rift in the community like the one 4 brought about. The only other period of widespread backlash I've observed was with 3 as it began to struggle technically after more and more content was released. The team that makes content for 4 is not the same team that made 3, 2 or 1 either. There may be people who worked on the previous games to varying degrees, but the structure is not the same. Maxis Emeryville was shut down in March 2015.

    I write books. If I get criticised then I respond and take what is said on board. If I get a comment saying something along the lines of "this sucks lmao" I ignore it. It's literally that easy. There are always going to be people who don't contribute to the discussion - welcome to the internet.

    "If I just told it it was a total fail and starting insulting it and you."
    No one on the forums does this. If they did, they'd be banned. Twitter is where the war is at.

    "So was them saying that there would be no Sims 5 if Sims 4 didn't sell a threat or just common sense."
    Of course it's common sense, but what matters is that community largely interpreted it as a threat, considering the statement came right after the backlash aimed at 4 started. Putting out potentially loaded statements at a time when your playerbase is unhappy isn't a wise move.

    "Also like you said earlier, they've been working on this for at least 5 years. Longer really when you think about all of the time they put into it before the release."
    The fact they've been working on this iteration for so long, paired with the fact it's still the most complained about iteration, should be an indication that they've done something wrong somewhere.

    "Yes, respect goes both ways. But honestly, 20th anniversary, that means that for at least 20 years they've been dealing with some people (not all obviously) personally insulting them and their work. How would you feel after 20 years of hearing that?"
    The people complaining are part of the only reason that their series even exists after 20 years - their customer base. They deserve acknowledgement and they got nothing.

    "People accuse Sims devs of ignoring the people right now."
    Mai said back in February that the Friday Highlights here on the forums are not designed to include critical threads, regardless of how popular said threads become. There is no place on the forums where developers respond to even constructive criticism regularly.

    I truly appreciate your post and your perspective. Truly, I do realize that the devs for each game are going to change signicantly. But though probably none today have been onboard for the entirity of the 20 years, they have more than likely been around long enough to feel the weight of negativity. Again though, I am not trying to speak for them. I am trying to give a little perspective.

    To your first point, that is interesting to know about Sims 2. Thank you for that input.

    To your point about ignoring those who don't contribute, that's what I'm saying. Why would they come in here at all if people are going to be insulting and rude when referring to them? Again though, I'm not saying that anyone is rude to other people in here. I'm talking about the posts that do nothing insult the game and the devs. Those threads are a sure fire way to make sure the devs never come in here and so most of us don't get the chance to put our suggestions to them as a result.

    To your point about them stating that there would not be a Sims 5 if Sims 4 didn't sell sounds like it was handled very poorly on their part for sure. They should have said it differently however, they can only claim a part in how it was perceived. A poor judgment made on their part really does go a long way to sour the grapes. Again, that you for explaining this. I appreciate it.

    To your point about the iteration taking so long to fix. I agree that it's an indication that something went wrong somewhere. That appears to be the problem so now it's about going through millions of lines of code to find exactly where the break happens when one thing happens repeating it again when something else happens. I get frustrated enough when I break my computer code and I have 100 to 200 lines. I couldn't imagine going through millions. lol

    And yes the customer base is the only thing that keeps a company going. And any company that does not do everything in their power to satisfy the base will surely fail. The thing is that just because they're not saying anything doesn't mean they're not doing anything.

    Let's say I'm working on your car. I've found a problem and am working to fix it. While I'm focusing on it, you come to me and tell me about another problem you just remembered. I can't focus on that one at the moment until I get this one fixed. So I might say something like "give me a minute and we'll talk." Then I'd finish up what I'm doing then move on to the new problem.

    I'm sure this is not the place for critical issues. All I'm saying is that maybe they would at least pop in more if they were not called failures and such.

    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/799243/the-truth-about-sims-whos-pulling-your-strings#latest

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  • PenguinFoopPenguinFoop Posts: 232 Member
    Here's the thing, everyone is entitled to their opinions. The point of my thread, though some may perceive it as rude, is not meant to be. It's meant to be thought provoking. Perhaps I went about it the wrong way. It was 4:00 AM and I was reading a thread and thoroughly enjoying it until yet again, another negative post talking about how EA doesn't care about the gamers. If it was the first post, I would have just ignored it but after seeing so many good threads soiled, even if slightly, by such negativity just irritated me. I love the forums and mainly enjoy posting and reading up on everything and everybody. But it gets frustrating when the negativity starts pervasively infecting everything.

    I know people are frustrated. I know people are irritated. But I just think there has to be a better way of handling that from all of us. Myself included.
    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/799243/the-truth-about-sims-whos-pulling-your-strings#latest

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  • PenguinFoopPenguinFoop Posts: 232 Member
    Drakos wrote: »
    I agree OP, I just dont participate in these forums much any more. I check in for news and have the worst offenders on ignore so the forum is pretty quiet.
    MissyHissy wrote: »
    I frequently take breaks from here for all the reasons you mentioned. There's constructive criticisum, then there's simple animosity and I think it frequently drifts over that line. I join in threads occasionally but these days, I'm ignoring the angry, complaining threads because 99% of the time, I'm not going to agree or experience what they are. Maybe I'm playing the game differently to those who are angry; or maybe I look for different things from the game. I don't know.

    I genuinely enjoy the game and to be perfectly honest, I don't come up against a good 95% of the bugs, glitches or issues other people report. Maybe I'm lucky - or maybe I don't view those things as bugs. Whatever it is, I don't understand the hatred that is directed at the game but particularly the developers.

    OP, I agree with what you said about how you'd feel if you were a developer. One of my best friends from senior school is studying to be a game developer and he's said the same things you have. Where there's respect and appreciation but constructive feedback, he'd be more than happy to respond and acknowledge. When it comes to personal insults, forget it. That's a position that makes sense.

    For those who say there's no rival for the Sims; there's always the previous generations. If Sims 4 makes you angry, or isn't your cup of tea, maybe try one of those instead? Just a thought.

    Again, I agree with what you said about respect. Courtesy and manners cost nothing, after all. I'm sorry you feel you have to leave the forum but I can udnerstand why. <3

    Thank you both. There are obviously great people on here and I don't even think the complainers are bad. They're frustrated and understandably from their point of view, I'm sure. It's just that frustration spreads and soon everyone is frustrated about everything until the original frustration gets lost in the mix.

    The thing is that the forums should be fun for everyone. Sure, if you have an issue, share the issue but be constructive about it.

    Anyway, again thanks and happy gaming. <3
    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/799243/the-truth-about-sims-whos-pulling-your-strings#latest

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  • PenguinFoopPenguinFoop Posts: 232 Member
    xamira99 wrote: »
    I do understand your frustration & it's totally up to you if you feel that there's nothing useful that would make your experience here better. I personally do come over here from time to time to share my opinions on the current issues, because sometimes, it's nice to share what you did, your experience, your opinion, etc with others.

    So, talking about this franchise, with 20 years of experience & maybe a few engagements with the consumers, it won't make them untouchable. Sometimes, it's important to let them know & provide feedbacks because we want this franchise to be more successful than before. Since you've experience working as a front-liner, I believe that you know that there will always be a happy & angry customers/consumers. And so do the Simmers. It takes a great person to be able to engage with different type of customers/consumers, because after all, everyone just want to be heard & understood.

    I play this game for more than half of my life, and I believe, so do the majority of the Simmers too. Hence, that's the reason why you can see there's a lot of threads that comparing or sharing what would be better if this or that to be added in this and that. And I would say that those who's been complaining about this game is not as little as the 1-2% of the entire sales as you've claimed. On the flip side, it is the EA who has been refocusing their marketing strategy to expand their market group (with sales, free base game, different platform, etc).

    Besides, I would say that, if the developers stopped listening due to negative feedbacks, they won't be able to improve their product quality because as I read some of the threads, there're a lot of unique ideas & logical opinion where they could take it & learn from that. On top of that, there're forum moderator who monitors the forum & will block or delete any offensive comments as well as there're forum rules that apply to everyone who would want to participate in this forum. So, I would say that, you don't need to worry about what the developers/EA are thinking because I'm pretty sure, they know what they need to do especially if they want to reach another great milestone. :)

    I agree with much of what you said but especially the bold part. That's the frustrating thing though. There are a lot of good ideas in here and I want to encourage the devs to come in and see them, not discourage them with negativity. I don't know if it would work and it probably wouldn't but I am hopeful.

    As far as worrying about what they're thinking, I don't worry so much about that as I do about them missing out on a great idea that gets lost in negative posts. Again, I know people are irritated and frustrated. I understand that. I just wish they'd express it in a better way.

    For instance; instead of saying something like "EA doesn't care about the gamers," maybe say something like "Sometimes I feel like EA doesn't care about the gamers." It's the same point but less accusatory and thus would be better received. That's just an example so it's not meant to be taken word for word.

    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/799243/the-truth-about-sims-whos-pulling-your-strings#latest

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  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,950 Member
    I am saying that I want feed back but why would I respond if I'm unappreciated?

    Because you're a working adult and not a child with an ego problem.
    As a corporation you don't respond the same as an individual would anyway and would most definitely not respond to every bit of feedback that you receive, however general posts about issues brought up by the community from developers is normal and expected communication.

    Here is a Gwent thread. Recently CD Project Red made some changes to the game that went down really badly, to a point where their own reddit comment got downvoted 200 times. Their responce was showing the math and agreeing that some things did not work. As a responce the community continues to give feedback.

    https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/deep-analysis-of-journey-performed-by-game-director-himself.11028497/

    But here's my favorite bit - it's not The Sims developers making an issue out of this forum, it is you. Someone not affiliated with the company one bit.

    Again the point appears to be missed. I work for a massive corporation. Do you honestly think that losing 1-2% of our customers is going to hurt out bottom line?

    Do you think the point of a business is to break even? Or is it to generate as much profit as possible?
    I simply said if you want X to happen, then try Y.

    But you can't say that because that would imply that this will actually happen. And considering that EA is keeping communications with the forums to the minimum and have been for a very long time, that's not going to happen.
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • Colton147147Colton147147 Posts: 10,235 Member
    edited April 6
    The Sims 4 is one of the best Sims games ever made. o:)
    Your Justine Keaton Enthusiast.
  • HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 8,045 Member
    Everyone handles it in their own way. I go through phases where I stay away more and more. I know there are a great amount of simmers who are happy with their game and are looking forward to more that don't come here much or at all. So you aren't alone in your feeling of wanting to leave.. lots have.
    I do love to visit some threads though that are creative and picture threads. I also come here for info also or to correct wrong or outdated info if I see it and am sure of my answer because things are always changing in the game through patches or additions. I also sometimes like to visit other threads for the entertainment value and I'll leave that at that.
    They have revamped the forums again and it seems like it's slightly better to me. There are posters that I just skim over their posts or just completely jump to the next one and simmers I put on ignore for awhile especially when a new pack comes out and I'm excited to learn more and enjoy my game while getting info or sharing my excitement. I absolutely love the feeling of feeling like a kid at Christmas so it's up to me to not let others spoil my fun. If someone is getting personal and breaking forum rules ...and that goes for anyone you always have the ability to report it.
    Sala-gadoola-menchicka-boo-la bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
    Put 'em together and what have you got?
    Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
  • GordyGordy Posts: 1,012 Member
    edited April 6
    The Sims 4 is one of the best Sims games ever made. o:)
    Yeah. Out of all the mainline games, it's in the top 4.
    TS1_dragons_hatching.jpg
    Every day until we get them.
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