I need actual sources please of real numbers, not guestimates or hear-say (Linked-in doesn't count -anyone can make up a number there.)
I know EA has investors they don't want to lose, but I hate when they lie. It makes me not trust them even more. I'm definitely not pre-ordering anything from them anymore. I'm waiting to see if TS5 is good before I buy it.
PS - I've looked at their official financial reports and they never give any real hard numbers for any one specific game - it is all cumulative. So saying that TS4 is purely responsible for all the profits in The Sims series isn't true. More than likely, TS3 is actually helping out quit a bit (since it still sells so well) and all the other The Sims products.
Lol EA is a publicly traded company and it’s illegal for them to lie to their investors about their financials. I love how self-important some people are and think EA would ever care enough to lie to you, when in fact they couldn’t care less about what you think
TS4 crossing $1 billion revenue was announced during the Q2 FY2019 earnings call. You can read the transcript here:
I need actual sources please of real numbers, not guestimates or hear-say (Linked-in doesn't count -anyone can make up a number there.)
I know EA has investors they don't want to lose, but I hate when they lie. It makes me not trust them even more. I'm definitely not pre-ordering anything from them anymore. I'm waiting to see if TS5 is good before I buy it.
PS - I've looked at their official financial reports and they never give any real hard numbers for any one specific game - it is all cumulative. So saying that TS4 is purely responsible for all the profits in The Sims series isn't true. More than likely, TS3 is actually helping out quit a bit (since it still sells so well) and all the other The Sims products.
Lol EA is a publicly traded company and it’s illegal for them to lie to their investors about their financials. I love how self-important some people are and think EA would ever care enough to lie to you, when in fact they couldn’t care less about what you think
TS4 crossing $1 billion revenue was announced during the Q2 FY2019 earnings call. You can read the transcript here:
All of these numbers are specific to TS4, and not the franchise as a whole.
No, no - these are transcripts of their conference calls - these are NOT the actual numbers. They're actually quite vague.
I'll go over the last earnings call transcript. The Sims 4 was mentioned 7 times through out the whole transcript - 6 times along with their other games and only once on it's own. This is what it says about it in particular:
The Sims 4 also continues to be an incredible long-term live service with a growing audience. Monthly average players are up more than 40% year-over-year in The Sims 4, and engagement across the franchise has led The Sims to surpass $5 billion in lifetime sales. The Sims continues to be one of the great franchise in gaming, and we have plans to bring new experiences to its amazing players for a long time to come.
- Q2 2020 Electronic Arts Earnings Call on October 29, 2019, page 4 of 17
So it doesn't actually say that The Sims 4 has added $5 billion to sales - it only contributed to the entire The Sims franchise. And that is all the earnings call talked about. No actual numbers - not even how much it actually contributed to The Sims franchise lifetime sales. If you read the other earnings calls, they are just as vague.
So yeah, it's misleading and again no actual numbers. Plus your word that it "they expect TS4 to generate between $300-400 million for FY2020" is just speculation.
Plus being obnoxious representing EA doesn't help their cause.
-<*>-
Also about the generation of expected $300-400 million for FY2020, this is what it actually says:
With regards to business drivers, we've raised our net bookings outlook for the year to $5.125 billion. Live services remain strong, and we continue to expect Apex Legends and The Sims to both deliver net bookings in the $300 million to $400 million range. We're not passing through the full beat, primarily as the FX headwinds has increased significantly and we pushed NBA Live 20 and Respawn's VR Medal of Honor title out of the year. Together, these headwinds amount for -- to approximately $100 million against our original expectations for net bookings
- Q2 2020 Electronic Arts Earnings Call on October 29, 2019, page 6 of 17
It doesn't talk about TS4 specifically, but the The Sims as a whole, which not only includes TS4 but TS3 and the mobile games. So yeah, it isn't about just TS4. Moreover, it says The Sims along with Apex Legends, so it's not even expected to generate all that by itself.
No, no - these are transcripts of their conference calls - these are NOT the actual numbers. They're actually quite vague.
All numbers they gave in their conference calls are either factual (when talking about past quarters or past years), or their own projection (if the numbers include future quarters).
So it doesn't actually say that The Sims 4 has added $5 billion to sales - it only contributed to the entire The Sims franchise. And that is all the earnings call talked about. No actual numbers - not even how much it actually contributed to The Sims franchise lifetime sales. If you read the other earnings calls, they are just as vague.
Nobody has said The Sims 4 has made $5 billion in sales. You're the only who's saying that.
There is nothing vague about that statement itself either. When they say The Sims franchise as whole has made $5 billion in sales, they just mean The Sims franchise as whole has made $5 billion in sales and nothing else. You're the only one who's like "BUT but it doesn't say how much TS4 contributed to the $5 billion and thus it's vague!!"
Plus your word that it "they expect TS4 to generate between $300-400 million for FY2020" is just speculation.
No. You just missed it.
From Q2 2020:
With regards to business drivers, we've raised our net bookings outlook for the year to $5.125 billion. Live services remain strong, and we continue to expect Apex Legends and The Sims to both deliver net bookings in the $300 million to $400 million range.
Bookings = revenue/sales since TS4 doesn't generate deferred revenue.
If you wanna tell me this doesn't say TS4 and it could mean the whole franchise, they specifically said TS4 for the same $300-400 million projection in Q1.
We are reiterating our guidance for the full year. We continue to expect The Sims 4 and Apex Legends to each deliver net bookings in the $300 million to $400 million range.
Moreover, it says The Sims along with Apex Legends, so it's not even expected to generate all that by itself.
No. You can read the previous transcript and see it's $300 million to $400 million each. They also separate called out the $300-400 million for Sims alone so it's definitely not two games combined.
Obviously, Sims, we've called out that it's in the same range of $300 million to $400 million
What I've found is that you've become quite desperate and is now trying to deny everything by calling it "vague".
New ideas like....horses? Romance? Vacations and hotels? Bands? Hobbies?
Nah...there's still a lot of ground the past iterations have covered that TS4 hasn't...in 5 years. I don't know why people say it's time for "new things" when we haven't even gotten the full package yet
Toddlers confirmed.
Wait...
Your Justine Keaton Enthusiast and the Voice of the Sims Community.
No, no - these are transcripts of their conference calls - these are NOT the actual numbers. They're actually quite vague.
All numbers they gave in their conference calls are either factual (when talking about past quarters or past years), or their own projection (if the numbers include future quarters).
So it doesn't actually say that The Sims 4 has added $5 billion to sales - it only contributed to the entire The Sims franchise. And that is all the earnings call talked about. No actual numbers - not even how much it actually contributed to The Sims franchise lifetime sales. If you read the other earnings calls, they are just as vague.
Nobody has said The Sims 4 has made $5 billion in sales. You're the only who's saying that.
There is nothing vague about that statement itself either. When they say The Sims franchise as whole has made $5 billion in sales, they just mean The Sims franchise as whole has made $5 billion in sales and nothing else. You're the only one who's like "BUT but it doesn't say how much TS4 contributed to the $5 billion and thus it's vague!!"
My posts aren't just for you, they're for everybody. I'm using that part of the transcript to show how EA will say something to make it look like something else. If someone reads that carelessly, they would think that The Sims 4 had contributed quite a lot of the overall lifetimes sales of The Sims series when it's just really vague. And it's like that through out all of their transcripts in the past. I'm just pointing that out to other readers to read it carefully so that they're not mislead by what the transcripts say.
Plus your word that it "they expect TS4 to generate between $300-400 million for FY2020" is just speculation.
No. You just missed it.
From Q2 2020:
With regards to business drivers, we've raised our net bookings outlook for the year to $5.125 billion. Live services remain strong, and we continueto expect Apex Legends and The Sims to both deliver net bookings in the $300 million to $400 million range.
Net bookings = revenue/sales since TS4 doesn't generate deferred revenue.
But it's NOT just TS4, that includes the mobile games and TS3 as well . Also Apex Legends figures into that expectation. It's NOT just TS4 like you're making it sound. I'm not even talking about deferred revenues. Smh.....
But it's NOT just TS4, that includes the mobile games and TS3 as well . Also Apex Legends figures into that expectation. It's NOT just TS4 like you're making it sound. I'm not even talking about deferred revenues. Smh.....
Read the Q1 FY2020 transcript. I already replied you on this because I just knew you would say this as you're trying to find every excuse to deny everything.
But it's NOT just TS4, that includes the mobile games and TS3 as well . Also Apex Legends figures into that expectation. It's NOT just TS4 like you're making it sound. I'm not even talking about deferred revenues. Smh.....
Read the Q1 FY2020 transcript. I already replied you on this because I just knew you would say this as you're trying to find every excuse to deny everything.
I did read it. And when other people read it, they'll be cautious too about how EA words things. That's the main reason for my post.
Letting TS4 end in one year or two would be the dumbest decision EA can make given TS4’s upward trend. They should make as much money from TS4 as possible and use it to fund TS5’s development. TS5 is going to be the best base game ever with the most content if they let TS4 continue 5 more years. Meanwhile, those who’re hoping TS5 to release in one year or two are just wishing for a rushed base game with tons of missing content, as we know EA didn’t start developing TS5 until 2018.
Note : The Sims 3 and The Sims 3 Store ($25+ MM revenue) brought a lot of money but it didn't help the development of The Sims 4.
In particular when you know the initial online project was suddenly abandoned.
No matter the time they spent on TS5 development, there is no warranty they won't change their mind later.
I still have a few more TS4 packs I want to get but I am not sure I am going to get them. I thought I was not going to be bored when I got DU but I quickly got bored with it. I have gone back to TS2. I really hope TS5, if it comes, wows me like TS2 did (which is why I still play it).
To Elelunicy: So letting TS4 nd in 2 more years is a "dumb decision",while letting it go on for 5 more years is smart? Sims 4 released in 2014,which makes 5 years that it's been around... 5 years of bugs,glitches and half-baked game packs built on a very weak game engine. The dumbest thing EA can do is keep letting Sims 4 go on for more years,stacking half-baked pack on top of half-baked pack on a weak engine until one day tat engine breaks for good and cannot be repaired in any way In reality,that would make EA lose money AND customers,and no company wants that.
The smartest thing for EA to do is to end Sims 4 either later this year or sometime next year,then let people move on to Sims 5. Nothing can last forever,not even Sims 4.
Along with others in this section, I sincerely hope we don’t have 5 more years. Maybe 1 more, maybe a little over one- but just MAYBE. If it was my choice, we’d be getting Sims 5 in late 2020... but that’s just my opinion because ya’ll we’re going on 6 YEARS here... 6 YEARS... and so many people, such as myself, still don’t feel like they even have the basics yet... so if Sims 5 is ready and is actually a good base game this time.. bring it on.
I'd be down for ts4 continuing another 5 years and ts5 coming much later if it does
both for the sake of new themes and also for the sake of ts5 being bit more complete game at start if it eventually releases
Yeah, TS4 is making A LOT of money right now and it’s easily covering TS5’s development cost. According to EA, TS4’s revenue has grown every year since its release and it’s projected to grow even higher to $300-$400 million in fiscal year 2020. We also know TS4 made $75 million in its first fiscal year (leaked from one of the EA employee’s LinkedIn profile) and its lifetime revenue crossed $1 billion in Q3 FY2019. Given the info, this is how I would estimate TS4’s annual revenue since its launch:
FY2015: $75 million, Lifetime: $75 million
FY2016: $175 million, Lifetime: $250 million
FY2017: $200 million, Lifetime: $450 million
FY2018: $275 million, Lifetime: $725 million
FY2019: $300 million, Lifetime: $1.025 billion
FY2020: $350 million, Lifetime: $1.375 billion
Letting TS4 end in one year or two would be the dumbest decision EA can make given TS4’s upward trend. They should make as much money from TS4 as possible and use it to fund TS5’s development. TS5 is going to be the best base game ever with the most content if they let TS4 continue 5 more years. Meanwhile, those who’re hoping TS5 to release in one year or two are just wishing for a rushed base game with tons of missing content, as we know EA didn’t start developing TS5 until 2018.
Can you tell me where you got this info from? As far as I know, EA doesn‘t publish sales numbers. I remember though some Guru threatening us that there won‘t be a TS5 if TS4 isn‘t a success. I don’t think the would put a gun to our heads if TS4 was the most successful Sims game ever.
They made that statement when TS4 first launched. For a Sims game it’s about the amount of money it makes in its lifetime, not the number of copies it sold at launch.
At least if it can fund TS5 that's good, but I think 3/4 of that money will go to other games, like always since The Sims is a joke for EA and many players. Also I can't blame people to think that, cause when I see TS4 it's really a joke...
We start over with sims 5 then its back to "where's seasons?" "where's pets?" "where's university" etc.
Exactly! I am not really interested in TS5 and starting all over again. I have all of the current content for the Sims 4, and I am happy with it. I still have so much to discover. I think I would get TS5 after it comes out with a few of the main expansions such as Seasons, Pets, etc.
But a good base game should be good and satisfying on its own without ANY packs installed. Also, I think Seasons and Weather should be part of the base games from now on.
Like, we are 5+ years in now with the Sims 4 and the game still feels not even close to complete. That's pretty telling if you ask me. They are obviously dragging this game out, otherwise it would not be missing so much at this point.
We start over with sims 5 then its back to "where's seasons?" "where's pets?" "where's university" etc.
Exactly! I am not really interested in TS5 and starting all over again. I have all of the current content for the Sims 4, and I am happy with it. I still have so much to discover. I think I would get TS5 after it comes out with a few of the main expansions such as Seasons, Pets, etc.
But a good base game should be good and satisfying on its own without ANY packs installed. Also, I think Seasons and Weather should be part of the base games from now on.
Like, we are 5+ years in now with the Sims 4 and the game still feels not even close to complete. That's pretty telling if you ask me. They are obviously dragging this game out, otherwise it would not be missing so much at this point.
If The Sims 5 released next year and was rushed to please all the impatient Simmers just like The Sims 4, I bet you guys would still complain, because that’s obviously what EA doesn’t want to do this time around. If they released TS5 without a couple additional development years, then nobody will be happy. I’d rather see more TS4 content so that they can make an awesome base game.
I would rather see EA/Maxis be more careful this time around and check how Paralives will turn out. I personally find it laughable how you guys don’t believe what SimGurus have said A MILLION TIMES that TS4 is not going anywhere anytime soon... 🤦♀️
Hey guys, it’s inevitable that The Sims 5 will require more high tech, up-to-date computers unlike The Sims 4, which was created with players who have lower-end computers in mind. So I have a possible solution and I know only a few people will like my suggestion here:
What if instead of rushing already to a brand new, empty, rushed base game/TS5, they could work on TS4 and TS5 at the same time? They could easily co-maintain the same game series and release content for both games for years to come. That way Simmers who don’t want to move on to TS5 can still get new content and fixes for TS4. Best of both worlds
I bet it will last even longer than that. I hope so at least. I know some people want a new base game already, but I don’t see the point with Maxis doing that now that TS4 is extremely profitable. Why do some people love to deny the facts is beyond me...
Also I have noticed that since 2013/2014 the Sims fanbase has turned into a toxic place where TS2/TS3 Sims games fans attack on Simmers that actually like or love TS4. I personally was upset in 2013 when TS4 was announced, I wanted an OFB EP and Farming EP for TS3 so badly, but that didn’t happen. But I decided to give TS4 a chance anyway.
To Elelunicy: So letting TS4 nd in 2 more years is a "dumb decision",while letting it go on for 5 more years is smart? Sims 4 released in 2014,which makes 5 years that it's been around... 5 years of bugs,glitches and half-baked game packs built on a very weak game engine. The dumbest thing EA can do is keep letting Sims 4 go on for more years,stacking half-baked pack on top of half-baked pack on a weak engine until one day tat engine breaks for good and cannot be repaired in any way In reality,that would make EA lose money AND customers,and no company wants that.
The smartest thing for EA to do is to end Sims 4 either later this year or sometime next year,then let people move on to Sims 5. Nothing can last forever,not even Sims 4.
And what good would that do when there isn't a Sims 5 to release? So should Sims 4 just end because a few people don't like it and everything just falls into radio silence while all players sit and wait and hope that there is another iteration in the works, leaving zero money to be made to fund the next project?
People are not thinking this through. Wanting Sims 5 to come early is valid, but actually thinking they can just pull it out of a hat is unrealistic. For one thing, there has never been an official announcement that it's even in production. For all we know, they could still just be building the game engine. Sims 4 was planned to last longer than previous games from the beginning. Sims 5 will probably do the same. EA just rebranded Sims 4 less than a year ago, there is no way they would do that if they were releasing a new game in the next year or two. From what we've learned about development, they plan content and releases years in advance. I'll just say that again for those in the back. Years. So when they stated (many, many times) that Sims 4 as at least three more years of content left, that means that they've been planning this out. And this statement was made less than a year ago. So even if there is a Sims 5 in production, I'm sure they've taken into consideration how long they are going to need for development time, as well as what the release schedule should look like in order to have a smooth transition and avoid financial interruptions. EA is a business. They aren't going to say, "Well, whoop, looks like people want Sims 5 instead of Sims 4. Guess we should stop production altogether and put full focus on the new game for the next year so we can throw it out there. We'll just take the multi-million dollar financial hit. I'm sure the investors will understand." Lol. You will never see that.
Bottom line is, if you don't like the game, you don't have to play it. As was stated by others, Sims 3 is still available, and if you can get it to run on your PC, Sims 2. If you think the packs aren't worth it, don't support them or buy them only during sales. Why play a game if you don't like it or think it's worth it? I know people don't like hearing it, but honestly, there are no other options. This is reality. Deal with it. Sims 5 will come when it's done. Begging for it to come earlier isn't going to get you anywhere, and if it does, that's not a good thing because that would be another rushed base game. That's that.
To Elelunicy: So letting TS4 nd in 2 more years is a "dumb decision",while letting it go on for 5 more years is smart? Sims 4 released in 2014,which makes 5 years that it's been around... 5 years of bugs,glitches and half-baked game packs built on a very weak game engine. The dumbest thing EA can do is keep letting Sims 4 go on for more years,stacking half-baked pack on top of half-baked pack on a weak engine until one day tat engine breaks for good and cannot be repaired in any way In reality,that would make EA lose money AND customers,and no company wants that.
The smartest thing for EA to do is to end Sims 4 either later this year or sometime next year,then let people move on to Sims 5. Nothing can last forever,not even Sims 4.
And what good would that do when there isn't a Sims 5 to release? So should Sims 4 just end because a few people don't like it and everything just falls into radio silence while all players sit and wait and hope that there is another iteration in the works, leaving zero money to be made to fund the next project?
People are not thinking this through. Wanting Sims 5 to come early is valid, but actually thinking they can just pull it out of a hat is unrealistic. For one thing, there has never been an official announcement that it's even in production. For all we know, they could still just be building the game engine. Sims 4 was planned to last longer than previous games from the beginning. Sims 5 will probably do the same. EA just rebranded Sims 4 less than a year ago, there is no way they would do that if they were releasing a new game in the next year or two. From what we've learned about development, they plan content and releases years in advance. I'll just say that again for those in the back. Years. So when they stated (many, many times) that Sims 4 as at least three more years of content left, that means that they've been planning this out. And this statement was made less than a year ago. So even if there is a Sims 5 in production, I'm sure they've taken into consideration how long they are going to need for development time, as well as what the release schedule should look like in order to have a smooth transition and avoid financial interruptions. EA is a business. They aren't going to say, "Well, whoop, looks like people want Sims 5 instead of Sims 4. Guess we should stop production altogether and put full focus on the new game for the next year so we can throw it out there. We'll just take the multi-million dollar financial hit. I'm sure the investors will understand." Lol. You will never see that.
Bottom line is, if you don't like the game, you don't have to play it. As was stated by others, Sims 3 is still available, and if you can get it to run on your PC, Sims 2. If you think the packs aren't worth it, don't support them or buy them only during sales. Why play a game if you don't like it or think it's worth it? I know people don't like hearing it, but honestly, there are no other options. This is reality. Deal with it. Sims 5 will come when it's done. Begging for it to come earlier isn't going to get you anywhere, and if it does, that's not a good thing because that would be another rushed base game. That's that.
I agree with this post. Rushing Sims 5 out sooner than later just because some people dislike or even hate (hate = love? ) TS4 makes no sense from a financial point of view. They just got a new community manager for TS4. There are new members for TS4 team. What would be the point of all of that if they are not gonna make content and updates for the game for years to come?
I do believe Sims 5 will see the light of day someday, but definitely not anytime soon. Some Simmers have a hard time believing SimGurus themselves, despite the fact that Gurus MAKE the game and know things about its development and plans. Smh 🤦♀️🤦♂️
We start over with sims 5 then its back to "where's seasons?" "where's pets?" "where's university" etc.
Exactly! I am not really interested in TS5 and starting all over again. I have all of the current content for the Sims 4, and I am happy with it. I still have so much to discover. I think I would get TS5 after it comes out with a few of the main expansions such as Seasons, Pets, etc.
But a good base game should be good and satisfying on its own without ANY packs installed. Also, I think Seasons and Weather should be part of the base games from now on.
Like, we are 5+ years in now with the Sims 4 and the game still feels not even close to complete. That's pretty telling if you ask me. They are obviously dragging this game out, otherwise it would not be missing so much at this point.
I agree that weather should be in the base game. The one expansion I wanted the most from the beginning was always Seasons because of the atmosphere it creates.
In regards to completeness, well, each to our own on that. There are things that are indeed missing like slow dancing which I really want. Cars would be good as well. I am sure there is a ton of content that could be added to the game especially for gameplay. However, I play TS4 very slowly as I capture everything for my Sim story. It's been like that since the release of TS4, and I have over 2000 hours in the game now. Despite having all of the current content, I have yet to discover most of it. I still haven't even gone to granite falls, lol! That's coming soon though.
On the other hand, I can understand why the people who want to play the game for gameplay and not for storytelling may feel that the game is not complete. If I wasn't playing TS4 for storytelling, I probably would have already gone through all of the content quite fast and would be craving for more things to do gameplay wise.
We start over with sims 5 then its back to "where's seasons?" "where's pets?" "where's university" etc.
Exactly! I am not really interested in TS5 and starting all over again. I have all of the current content for the Sims 4, and I am happy with it. I still have so much to discover. I think I would get TS5 after it comes out with a few of the main expansions such as Seasons, Pets, etc.
But a good base game should be good and satisfying on its own without ANY packs installed. Also, I think Seasons and Weather should be part of the base games from now on.
Like, we are 5+ years in now with the Sims 4 and the game still feels not even close to complete. That's pretty telling if you ask me. They are obviously dragging this game out, otherwise it would not be missing so much at this point.
I agree that weather should be in the base game. The one expansion I wanted the most from the beginning was always Seasons because of the atmosphere it creates.
In regards to completeness, well, each to our own on that. There are things that are indeed missing like slow dancing which I really want. Cars would be good as well. I am sure there is a ton of content that could be added to the game especially for gameplay. However, I play TS4 very slowly as I capture everything for my Sim story. It's been like that since the release of TS4, and I have over 2000 hours in the game now. Despite having all of the current content, I have yet to discover most of it. I still haven't even gone to granite falls, lol! That's coming soon though.
On the other hand, I can understand why the people who want to play the game for gameplay and not for storytelling may feel that the game is not complete. If I wasn't playing TS4 for storytelling, I probably would have already gone through all of the content quite fast and would be craving for more things to do.
Yeah, Seasons should be in the base game definitely. I believe TS2 base game was supposed to have weather, am I right?
We start over with sims 5 then its back to "where's seasons?" "where's pets?" "where's university" etc.
Exactly! I am not really interested in TS5 and starting all over again. I have all of the current content for the Sims 4, and I am happy with it. I still have so much to discover. I think I would get TS5 after it comes out with a few of the main expansions such as Seasons, Pets, etc.
But a good base game should be good and satisfying on its own without ANY packs installed. Also, I think Seasons and Weather should be part of the base games from now on.
Like, we are 5+ years in now with the Sims 4 and the game still feels not even close to complete. That's pretty telling if you ask me. They are obviously dragging this game out, otherwise it would not be missing so much at this point.
If The Sims 5 released next year and was rushed to please all the impatient Simmers just like The Sims 4, I bet you guys would still complain, because that’s obviously what EA doesn’t want to do this time around. If they released TS5 without a couple additional development years, then nobody will be happy. I’d rather see more TS4 content so that they can make an awesome base game.
I would rather see EA/Maxis be more careful this time around and check how Paralives will turn out. I personally find it laughable how you guys don’t believe what SimGurus have said A MILLION TIMES that TS4 is not going anywhere anytime soon... 🤦♀️
Uh I'm sorry but did I say I want the Sims 5 next year? No.
What I did say was that I wouldn't mind them stopping developing the sims 4 and putting their full force onto the developement of The Sims 5, to make a great base game.
LieLF-so people should keep putting up with half-baked packs and bugs and glitches just because a few people love Sims 4 and want it to keep going on for too many more years? How is that fair to those who want a game with lots of gameplay? People who are sick and tired of putting up with half-baked packs and bugs should not have to settle for a Sims iteration that does'nt even have old bugs fixed.
I'll say this again: Let Sims 4 continue to late 2020 or early 2021,then EA can give us Sims 5. If Sims 4 continues to go on and on,then you might as well accept that the engine is going to break sooner or later,and ot be able to be fixed at all. The Sims 4 engine is really weak,and it's not going to last for many more years. If EA had deciced to build Sims 4 on a very strong game engine,then people would be fine with it lasting many more years. It doesn't make any sense to keep a game going and going on a weak game engine that's already been struggling to work for 5-6 years now.
And EA may of been working on Sims 5 already,getting ready to release it in 1-2 years.
LieLF-so people should keep putting up with half-baked packs and bugs and glitches just because a few people love Sims 4 and want it to keep going on for too many more years? How is that fair to those who want a game with lots of gameplay? People who are sick and tired of putting up with half-baked packs and bugs should not have to settle for a Sims iteration that does'nt even have old bugs fixed.
I'll say this again: Let Sims 4 continue to late 2020 or early 2021,then EA can give us Sims 5. If Sims 4 continues to go on and on,then you might as well accept that the engine is going to break sooner or later,and ot be able to be fixed at all. The Sims 4 engine is really weak,and it's not going to last for many more years. If EA had deciced to build Sims 4 on a very strong game engine,then people would be fine with it lasting many more years. It doesn't make any sense to keep a game going and going on a weak game engine that's already been struggling to work for 5-6 years now.
And EA may of been working on Sims 5 already,getting ready to release it in 1-2 years.
I'm not understanding why everyone thinks it's so weak? Only the people who built the engine or make the games know how much it can handle?
And me and my sister have been playing since release with very few bugs or glitches. The few I experienced were not game breaking just funny. But they fixed it. And I only had one crash from bad cc. Other than that me and my sister's game runs like a dream. And it cant be just us.
LieLF-so people should keep putting up with half-baked packs and bugs and glitches just because a few people love Sims 4 and want it to keep going on for too many more years? How is that fair to those who want a game with lots of gameplay? People who are sick and tired of putting up with half-baked packs and bugs should not have to settle for a Sims iteration that does'nt even have old bugs fixed.
I'll say this again: Let Sims 4 continue to late 2020 or early 2021,then EA can give us Sims 5. If Sims 4 continues to go on and on,then you might as well accept that the engine is going to break sooner or later,and ot be able to be fixed at all. The Sims 4 engine is really weak,and it's not going to last for many more years. If EA had deciced to build Sims 4 on a very strong game engine,then people would be fine with it lasting many more years. It doesn't make any sense to keep a game going and going on a weak game engine that's already been struggling to work for 5-6 years now.
And EA may of been working on Sims 5 already,getting ready to release it in 1-2 years.
Like I said, don't support it if you don't like it. Easy. You wouldn't be "putting up" with "half-baked" packs, bugs and glitches at all if you actually stopped buying and playing them. Is it a self-control issue? I'm pretty sure the devs aren't holding a gun to your head and making you purchase the next pack. If you're having such a hard time walking away, maybe there's a part of you that actually likes the game?
You also really need to stop pretending that Sims 4 isn't lucrative by trying to downplay its player base. Making up truth doesn't help your argument. The investor reports state otherwise, as does the continuing development of the game. If it didn't have significant player support, it would have ended a while ago. EA won't put money into a game that doesn't profit, that's just business logistics. You can ignore it if you want, but you'd just be lying to yourself and what good would that do?
And how is it "fair" to end a popular game prematurely just for a minority who don't like it? They sure didn't end Sims 3 early despite not only betraying the entire rotational player base, but offering a game full of bugs and routing errors, blue screens, crashing problems, and in the end, leaving it in a sorry disastrous state. In fact, Sims 3 probably should have ended earlier because of the problems people were having but they kept piling onto it. So there's a lesson to be learned there. I do agree though, that no doubt, this will also be the fate of Sims 4 in the end. Because that's how EA does things. They will push the game and continue to release content for it until they are good and ready to release the next iteration. It has little to do with how weak or strong the game engine is.
Speaking of, I just have to add that unless you are a game developer, there is no concrete truth to your claim that Sims 4 has a "weak engine". This is something that some players have been claiming by blowing statements out of proportion to make it sound like they know what they're talking about. Every game engine has pros and cons, and is built a certain way to accommodate specific types of gameplay. Trying to spread hysteria over the engine is nonsensical. The Sims 4 has definitely not been "struggling to work" for its five plus years, lol. It really hasn't. In fact, from what I see, the game is usually commended by a lot of people for its ability to still run smoothly. To be honest, I've only just started to see an escalation of complaints since...I'd say Island Living came out. And no doubt it will, like Sims 3 before it, eventually get bogged down and bloated from the weight of content and the bugs will remain. This is what happens when you add a ton of DLC upon DLC in a short amount of time. Realistically, most other games add content maybe once a year aside from microtransactions. This allows for more time in between to find and iron out more bugs and glitches. But a Sims game throws content out every few months, which means they are increasing the potential for new bugs with every single release. Sims 5 won't be any different. It will run mostly fine for the first couple of years and then it will get buggier and buggier and some things will never get fixed. This isn't something that's distinctive to Sims 4. It's distinctive to The Sims franchise in general.
Anyway, just to throw some light on this, I agree with you that the Sims 4 needs better gameplay. I leave feedback all the time about needing Fears, chemistry systems, preferences, and more distinctive personality mechanics. And I've come to the conclusion that the problem with the packs isn't actually the packs. It's the base game mechanics. The packs would actually be pretty awesome if the core gameplay had the depth that the previous games had. But no pack is going to fix that. That's something that has to be seriously patched into the base game, and it's really a question of if the devs can and/or will pursue that endeavor, and what it would take in funding and effort to make it right, or make it worth doing for EA's approval. So it's possible that we may never get those things. If we don't, then yes, we can only hope that Sims 5 will come one day and that it will do justice to the original Sims concept. But in order to fulfill that hope, it needs its full time in development and not to be rushed out because some people don't want to wait for it. Or we'll be right back in the same place we are now.
Comments
Lol EA is a publicly traded company and it’s illegal for them to lie to their investors about their financials. I love how self-important some people are and think EA would ever care enough to lie to you, when in fact they couldn’t care less about what you think
TS4 crossing $1 billion revenue was announced during the Q2 FY2019 earnings call. You can read the transcript here:
https://s22.q4cdn.com/894350492/files/doc_financials/2019/q3/Q3-FY19-Transcript.pdf
TS4’s revenue growing ever year since its release in 2014 was announced during the Q1 FY2020 earnings call. You can read the transcript here:
https://s22.q4cdn.com/894350492/files/doc_financials/2020/q1/Q1-FY20-Transcript.pdf
During the Q2 FY2020 earnings call, EA CFO mentioned that they continue to expect TS4 to generate between $300-400 million for FY2020.
https://s22.q4cdn.com/894350492/files/doc_financials/2020/q2/Transcript.pdf
All of these numbers are specific to TS4, and not the franchise as a whole.
No, no - these are transcripts of their conference calls - these are NOT the actual numbers. They're actually quite vague.
I'll go over the last earnings call transcript. The Sims 4 was mentioned 7 times through out the whole transcript - 6 times along with their other games and only once on it's own. This is what it says about it in particular:
The Sims 4 also continues to be an incredible long-term live service with a growing audience. Monthly average players are up more than 40% year-over-year in The Sims 4, and engagement across the franchise has led The Sims to surpass $5 billion in lifetime sales. The Sims continues to be one of the great franchise in gaming, and we have plans to bring new experiences to its amazing players for a long time to come.
- Q2 2020 Electronic Arts Earnings Call on October 29, 2019, page 4 of 17
So it doesn't actually say that The Sims 4 has added $5 billion to sales - it only contributed to the entire The Sims franchise. And that is all the earnings call talked about. No actual numbers - not even how much it actually contributed to The Sims franchise lifetime sales. If you read the other earnings calls, they are just as vague.
So yeah, it's misleading and again no actual numbers. Plus your word that it "they expect TS4 to generate between $300-400 million for FY2020" is just speculation.
Plus being obnoxious representing EA doesn't help their cause.
-<*>-
Also about the generation of expected $300-400 million for FY2020, this is what it actually says:
With regards to business drivers, we've raised our net bookings outlook for the year to $5.125 billion. Live services remain strong, and we continue to expect Apex Legends and The Sims to both deliver net bookings in the $300 million to $400 million range. We're not passing through the full beat, primarily as the FX headwinds has increased significantly and we pushed NBA Live 20 and Respawn's VR Medal of Honor title out of the year. Together, these headwinds amount for -- to approximately $100 million against our original expectations for net bookings
- Q2 2020 Electronic Arts Earnings Call on October 29, 2019, page 6 of 17
It doesn't talk about TS4 specifically, but the The Sims as a whole, which not only includes TS4 but TS3 and the mobile games. So yeah, it isn't about just TS4. Moreover, it says The Sims along with Apex Legends, so it's not even expected to generate all that by itself.
All numbers they gave in their conference calls are either factual (when talking about past quarters or past years), or their own projection (if the numbers include future quarters).
Nobody has said The Sims 4 has made $5 billion in sales. You're the only who's saying that.
There is nothing vague about that statement itself either. When they say The Sims franchise as whole has made $5 billion in sales, they just mean The Sims franchise as whole has made $5 billion in sales and nothing else. You're the only one who's like "BUT but it doesn't say how much TS4 contributed to the $5 billion and thus it's vague!!"
No. You just missed it.
From Q2 2020:
Bookings = revenue/sales since TS4 doesn't generate deferred revenue.
If you wanna tell me this doesn't say TS4 and it could mean the whole franchise, they specifically said TS4 for the same $300-400 million projection in Q1.
No. You can read the previous transcript and see it's $300 million to $400 million each. They also separate called out the $300-400 million for Sims alone so it's definitely not two games combined.
What I've found is that you've become quite desperate and is now trying to deny everything by calling it "vague".
Toddlers confirmed.
Wait...
My posts aren't just for you, they're for everybody. I'm using that part of the transcript to show how EA will say something to make it look like something else. If someone reads that carelessly, they would think that The Sims 4 had contributed quite a lot of the overall lifetimes sales of The Sims series when it's just really vague. And it's like that through out all of their transcripts in the past. I'm just pointing that out to other readers to read it carefully so that they're not mislead by what the transcripts say.
But it's NOT just TS4, that includes the mobile games and TS3 as well . Also Apex Legends figures into that expectation. It's NOT just TS4 like you're making it sound. I'm not even talking about deferred revenues. Smh.....
Read the Q1 FY2020 transcript. I already replied you on this because I just knew you would say this as you're trying to find every excuse to deny everything.
I did read it. And when other people read it, they'll be cautious too about how EA words things. That's the main reason for my post.
Note : The Sims 3 and The Sims 3 Store ($25+ MM revenue) brought a lot of money but it didn't help the development of The Sims 4.
In particular when you know the initial online project was suddenly abandoned.
No matter the time they spent on TS5 development, there is no warranty they won't change their mind later.
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionThe smartest thing for EA to do is to end Sims 4 either later this year or sometime next year,then let people move on to Sims 5. Nothing can last forever,not even Sims 4.
At least if it can fund TS5 that's good, but I think 3/4 of that money will go to other games, like always since The Sims is a joke for EA and many players. Also I can't blame people to think that, cause when I see TS4 it's really a joke...
But a good base game should be good and satisfying on its own without ANY packs installed. Also, I think Seasons and Weather should be part of the base games from now on.
Like, we are 5+ years in now with the Sims 4 and the game still feels not even close to complete. That's pretty telling if you ask me. They are obviously dragging this game out, otherwise it would not be missing so much at this point.
If The Sims 5 released next year and was rushed to please all the impatient Simmers just like The Sims 4, I bet you guys would still complain, because that’s obviously what EA doesn’t want to do this time around. If they released TS5 without a couple additional development years, then nobody will be happy. I’d rather see more TS4 content so that they can make an awesome base game.
I would rather see EA/Maxis be more careful this time around and check how Paralives will turn out. I personally find it laughable how you guys don’t believe what SimGurus have said A MILLION TIMES that TS4 is not going anywhere anytime soon... 🤦♀️
What if instead of rushing already to a brand new, empty, rushed base game/TS5, they could work on TS4 and TS5 at the same time? They could easily co-maintain the same game series and release content for both games for years to come. That way Simmers who don’t want to move on to TS5 can still get new content and fixes for TS4. Best of both worlds
https://nordic.ign.com/the-sims-4-game/16169/news/the-sims-4-new-content-being-planned-for-next-three-years
I bet it will last even longer than that. I hope so at least. I know some people want a new base game already, but I don’t see the point with Maxis doing that now that TS4 is extremely profitable. Why do some people love to deny the facts is beyond me...
Also I have noticed that since 2013/2014 the Sims fanbase has turned into a toxic place where TS2/TS3 Sims games fans attack on Simmers that actually like or love TS4. I personally was upset in 2013 when TS4 was announced, I wanted an OFB EP and Farming EP for TS3 so badly, but that didn’t happen. But I decided to give TS4 a chance anyway.
And what good would that do when there isn't a Sims 5 to release? So should Sims 4 just end because a few people don't like it and everything just falls into radio silence while all players sit and wait and hope that there is another iteration in the works, leaving zero money to be made to fund the next project?
People are not thinking this through. Wanting Sims 5 to come early is valid, but actually thinking they can just pull it out of a hat is unrealistic. For one thing, there has never been an official announcement that it's even in production. For all we know, they could still just be building the game engine. Sims 4 was planned to last longer than previous games from the beginning. Sims 5 will probably do the same. EA just rebranded Sims 4 less than a year ago, there is no way they would do that if they were releasing a new game in the next year or two. From what we've learned about development, they plan content and releases years in advance. I'll just say that again for those in the back. Years. So when they stated (many, many times) that Sims 4 as at least three more years of content left, that means that they've been planning this out. And this statement was made less than a year ago. So even if there is a Sims 5 in production, I'm sure they've taken into consideration how long they are going to need for development time, as well as what the release schedule should look like in order to have a smooth transition and avoid financial interruptions. EA is a business. They aren't going to say, "Well, whoop, looks like people want Sims 5 instead of Sims 4. Guess we should stop production altogether and put full focus on the new game for the next year so we can throw it out there. We'll just take the multi-million dollar financial hit. I'm sure the investors will understand." Lol. You will never see that.
Bottom line is, if you don't like the game, you don't have to play it. As was stated by others, Sims 3 is still available, and if you can get it to run on your PC, Sims 2. If you think the packs aren't worth it, don't support them or buy them only during sales. Why play a game if you don't like it or think it's worth it? I know people don't like hearing it, but honestly, there are no other options. This is reality. Deal with it. Sims 5 will come when it's done. Begging for it to come earlier isn't going to get you anywhere, and if it does, that's not a good thing because that would be another rushed base game. That's that.
I agree with this post. Rushing Sims 5 out sooner than later just because some people dislike or even hate (hate = love?
I do believe Sims 5 will see the light of day someday, but definitely not anytime soon. Some Simmers have a hard time believing SimGurus themselves, despite the fact that Gurus MAKE the game and know things about its development and plans. Smh 🤦♀️🤦♂️
I agree that weather should be in the base game. The one expansion I wanted the most from the beginning was always Seasons because of the atmosphere it creates.
In regards to completeness, well, each to our own on that. There are things that are indeed missing like slow dancing which I really want. Cars would be good as well. I am sure there is a ton of content that could be added to the game especially for gameplay. However, I play TS4 very slowly as I capture everything for my Sim story. It's been like that since the release of TS4, and I have over 2000 hours in the game now. Despite having all of the current content, I have yet to discover most of it. I still haven't even gone to granite falls, lol! That's coming soon though.
On the other hand, I can understand why the people who want to play the game for gameplay and not for storytelling may feel that the game is not complete. If I wasn't playing TS4 for storytelling, I probably would have already gone through all of the content quite fast and would be craving for more things to do gameplay wise.
Yeah, Seasons should be in the base game definitely. I believe TS2 base game was supposed to have weather, am I right?
Uh I'm sorry but did I say I want the Sims 5 next year? No.
What I did say was that I wouldn't mind them stopping developing the sims 4 and putting their full force onto the developement of The Sims 5, to make a great base game.
I'll say this again: Let Sims 4 continue to late 2020 or early 2021,then EA can give us Sims 5. If Sims 4 continues to go on and on,then you might as well accept that the engine is going to break sooner or later,and ot be able to be fixed at all. The Sims 4 engine is really weak,and it's not going to last for many more years. If EA had deciced to build Sims 4 on a very strong game engine,then people would be fine with it lasting many more years. It doesn't make any sense to keep a game going and going on a weak game engine that's already been struggling to work for 5-6 years now.
And EA may of been working on Sims 5 already,getting ready to release it in 1-2 years.
I'm not understanding why everyone thinks it's so weak? Only the people who built the engine or make the games know how much it can handle?
And me and my sister have been playing since release with very few bugs or glitches. The few I experienced were not game breaking just funny. But they fixed it. And I only had one crash from bad cc. Other than that me and my sister's game runs like a dream. And it cant be just us.
Like I said, don't support it if you don't like it. Easy. You wouldn't be "putting up" with "half-baked" packs, bugs and glitches at all if you actually stopped buying and playing them. Is it a self-control issue? I'm pretty sure the devs aren't holding a gun to your head and making you purchase the next pack. If you're having such a hard time walking away, maybe there's a part of you that actually likes the game?
You also really need to stop pretending that Sims 4 isn't lucrative by trying to downplay its player base. Making up truth doesn't help your argument. The investor reports state otherwise, as does the continuing development of the game. If it didn't have significant player support, it would have ended a while ago. EA won't put money into a game that doesn't profit, that's just business logistics. You can ignore it if you want, but you'd just be lying to yourself and what good would that do?
And how is it "fair" to end a popular game prematurely just for a minority who don't like it? They sure didn't end Sims 3 early despite not only betraying the entire rotational player base, but offering a game full of bugs and routing errors, blue screens, crashing problems, and in the end, leaving it in a sorry disastrous state. In fact, Sims 3 probably should have ended earlier because of the problems people were having but they kept piling onto it. So there's a lesson to be learned there. I do agree though, that no doubt, this will also be the fate of Sims 4 in the end. Because that's how EA does things. They will push the game and continue to release content for it until they are good and ready to release the next iteration. It has little to do with how weak or strong the game engine is.
Speaking of, I just have to add that unless you are a game developer, there is no concrete truth to your claim that Sims 4 has a "weak engine". This is something that some players have been claiming by blowing statements out of proportion to make it sound like they know what they're talking about. Every game engine has pros and cons, and is built a certain way to accommodate specific types of gameplay. Trying to spread hysteria over the engine is nonsensical. The Sims 4 has definitely not been "struggling to work" for its five plus years, lol. It really hasn't. In fact, from what I see, the game is usually commended by a lot of people for its ability to still run smoothly. To be honest, I've only just started to see an escalation of complaints since...I'd say Island Living came out. And no doubt it will, like Sims 3 before it, eventually get bogged down and bloated from the weight of content and the bugs will remain. This is what happens when you add a ton of DLC upon DLC in a short amount of time. Realistically, most other games add content maybe once a year aside from microtransactions. This allows for more time in between to find and iron out more bugs and glitches. But a Sims game throws content out every few months, which means they are increasing the potential for new bugs with every single release. Sims 5 won't be any different. It will run mostly fine for the first couple of years and then it will get buggier and buggier and some things will never get fixed. This isn't something that's distinctive to Sims 4. It's distinctive to The Sims franchise in general.
Anyway, just to throw some light on this, I agree with you that the Sims 4 needs better gameplay. I leave feedback all the time about needing Fears, chemistry systems, preferences, and more distinctive personality mechanics. And I've come to the conclusion that the problem with the packs isn't actually the packs. It's the base game mechanics. The packs would actually be pretty awesome if the core gameplay had the depth that the previous games had. But no pack is going to fix that. That's something that has to be seriously patched into the base game, and it's really a question of if the devs can and/or will pursue that endeavor, and what it would take in funding and effort to make it right, or make it worth doing for EA's approval. So it's possible that we may never get those things. If we don't, then yes, we can only hope that Sims 5 will come one day and that it will do justice to the original Sims concept. But in order to fulfill that hope, it needs its full time in development and not to be rushed out because some people don't want to wait for it. Or we'll be right back in the same place we are now.