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Failure States - Inconvenience vs. Redirection
Triplis
Posts: 3,048 Member
I was thinking about the old stuff about failure states from Will Wright and how that relates to the modern development of the sims. And asking myself, why would so-called failure states be interesting to people?
My thought was more or less as follows: It's interesting when it's like the protagonist in a story. The protagonist has a goal, but when they attempt to fulfill that goal, they get derailed. Things don't go to plan and they are forced to reevaulate and take a different path. Eventually, they reach their goal, but they are forced to go through character growth and various challenges of adapting to get there.
I think many video games have a component like this in them, on a micro level. Puzzle games, for example, present a challenge and can typically only be solved one way. The challenge comes from working out what that way is and as you try and fiddle and try, you learn more about the mechanics of the game and derive enjoyment from the challenge and the eventual breakthrough.
It is my hypothesis that one of the reasons some people struggle to sink their teeth into live mode in the sims 4 is due to a combined lack of redirection and overbearing presence of predictability. Where some people can easily become entranced in facing a mostly blank slate and writing their own story, others want the push and pull that a protagonist receives, telling them "no, you're going to have to try this a different way."
The game arguably does have this to some degree. For example, if you're trying to romance a particular sim, you may fail and have to reevaluate. If you continue to attempt to flirt blindly, you'll probably make things worse. You have to try a different tack. Use some friendly socials, or some funny. Then try a flirt here and there when things are not awkward anymore. But this can become predictable once you understand how to get around the problem and so when you face the obstacle, it becomes an inconvenience to solve instead of an interesting redirection. So much so that you might desire to bypass entirely, such as through supernatural abilities or being famous, where you can more easily reach a high romance state with anyone, getting yourself into the "safe zone" where it's nearly impossible to fail with romantic interactions with a particular sim.
Then there are other types of failure that arguably don't exist in this capacity at all and are instead inconvenience. If your sim starts a fire while cooking a dish, it might be shocking and interesting in and of itself to some degree, but if you put out the fire quickly and replace the stove, you can go right back to cooking again, as if the fire never happened.
And then there are some failures that are pure simulation. If you fail on the trick slide, your sim maybe winces and then goes right back at it.
Now that I've gone through what these things are and can be, what I would like to convey is that I think for some people, live mode quickly becomes boring because of the lack of interesting redirection. In theory, with a game this complex, one would think it'd be possible to design things such that you can keep running into new scenarios of redirection that force you to think on your feet. But for some people, the mechanics are easy enough to comprehend and execute that it becomes stale fast. Arguably more so when things like "powers" get involved, where it becomes a tradeoff: You give up most of the interesting challenge and some of the boring inconvenience, in exchange for taking more control over the spaces and simulations around you. This helps people who are intrigued by storytelling and inventing gameplay for themselves, but doesn't necessarily stick for people who are looking for the game to tell them "no, try another approach."
I will admit I'm not sure how you address an alleged problem like this in the context of the sims 4. Especially without wrecking the game for those who desire more control over the environment and desire to tell their own stories in their own way. Certainly the divide of automony makes a difference, but people play on a spectrum, not a dichotomy. For example, what if two sims never reached a point where romantic interactions are easy to carry out? If they can be highly reluctant, for example, because of mood or needs or something the other sim has recently sim, or something they have recently done? Arguably some further redirection could be built-in to something like that to make it more interesting and challenging, without becoming repetitive and inconvenient. But this might also damage the game for those who enjoy the "safety" of reaching a certain stage of a relationship between two sims.
And of course the complexity of such an undertaking is not to be understated. But to some extent, it has been done before. I suspect this is why people love systems like chemistry. Because it has a sense of redirecting you and telling you there may actually be a right and wrong answer. That the sims you are interacting with are not only blank slates, but they may tell a particular sim of yours no entirely. Or they may give an enthusiastic yes. And you may at some point have a sense that you have chosen the "right" sim. Just as the protagonist in the story may look back and realize that as harrowing as the journey was, to change it in even the slightest could drastically alter their life and the lives of many others.
If the protagonist looks back and realizes that it made no difference at all - that all of the choices were leading in the exact same direction, per their desires - that may be interesting for people who want to be the sole writer of the story and can write in their own sources of conflict and intrigue, but not so much for those who want a nudge.
P.S. When I talk about things like inconvenience and redirection, I'm not including elements like queuing up an interaction and having it fail to activate. As far as I know, that's a technical misstep, so I'm not counting it as part of the design.
My thought was more or less as follows: It's interesting when it's like the protagonist in a story. The protagonist has a goal, but when they attempt to fulfill that goal, they get derailed. Things don't go to plan and they are forced to reevaulate and take a different path. Eventually, they reach their goal, but they are forced to go through character growth and various challenges of adapting to get there.
I think many video games have a component like this in them, on a micro level. Puzzle games, for example, present a challenge and can typically only be solved one way. The challenge comes from working out what that way is and as you try and fiddle and try, you learn more about the mechanics of the game and derive enjoyment from the challenge and the eventual breakthrough.
It is my hypothesis that one of the reasons some people struggle to sink their teeth into live mode in the sims 4 is due to a combined lack of redirection and overbearing presence of predictability. Where some people can easily become entranced in facing a mostly blank slate and writing their own story, others want the push and pull that a protagonist receives, telling them "no, you're going to have to try this a different way."
The game arguably does have this to some degree. For example, if you're trying to romance a particular sim, you may fail and have to reevaluate. If you continue to attempt to flirt blindly, you'll probably make things worse. You have to try a different tack. Use some friendly socials, or some funny. Then try a flirt here and there when things are not awkward anymore. But this can become predictable once you understand how to get around the problem and so when you face the obstacle, it becomes an inconvenience to solve instead of an interesting redirection. So much so that you might desire to bypass entirely, such as through supernatural abilities or being famous, where you can more easily reach a high romance state with anyone, getting yourself into the "safe zone" where it's nearly impossible to fail with romantic interactions with a particular sim.
Then there are other types of failure that arguably don't exist in this capacity at all and are instead inconvenience. If your sim starts a fire while cooking a dish, it might be shocking and interesting in and of itself to some degree, but if you put out the fire quickly and replace the stove, you can go right back to cooking again, as if the fire never happened.
And then there are some failures that are pure simulation. If you fail on the trick slide, your sim maybe winces and then goes right back at it.
Now that I've gone through what these things are and can be, what I would like to convey is that I think for some people, live mode quickly becomes boring because of the lack of interesting redirection. In theory, with a game this complex, one would think it'd be possible to design things such that you can keep running into new scenarios of redirection that force you to think on your feet. But for some people, the mechanics are easy enough to comprehend and execute that it becomes stale fast. Arguably more so when things like "powers" get involved, where it becomes a tradeoff: You give up most of the interesting challenge and some of the boring inconvenience, in exchange for taking more control over the spaces and simulations around you. This helps people who are intrigued by storytelling and inventing gameplay for themselves, but doesn't necessarily stick for people who are looking for the game to tell them "no, try another approach."
I will admit I'm not sure how you address an alleged problem like this in the context of the sims 4. Especially without wrecking the game for those who desire more control over the environment and desire to tell their own stories in their own way. Certainly the divide of automony makes a difference, but people play on a spectrum, not a dichotomy. For example, what if two sims never reached a point where romantic interactions are easy to carry out? If they can be highly reluctant, for example, because of mood or needs or something the other sim has recently sim, or something they have recently done? Arguably some further redirection could be built-in to something like that to make it more interesting and challenging, without becoming repetitive and inconvenient. But this might also damage the game for those who enjoy the "safety" of reaching a certain stage of a relationship between two sims.
And of course the complexity of such an undertaking is not to be understated. But to some extent, it has been done before. I suspect this is why people love systems like chemistry. Because it has a sense of redirecting you and telling you there may actually be a right and wrong answer. That the sims you are interacting with are not only blank slates, but they may tell a particular sim of yours no entirely. Or they may give an enthusiastic yes. And you may at some point have a sense that you have chosen the "right" sim. Just as the protagonist in the story may look back and realize that as harrowing as the journey was, to change it in even the slightest could drastically alter their life and the lives of many others.
If the protagonist looks back and realizes that it made no difference at all - that all of the choices were leading in the exact same direction, per their desires - that may be interesting for people who want to be the sole writer of the story and can write in their own sources of conflict and intrigue, but not so much for those who want a nudge.
P.S. When I talk about things like inconvenience and redirection, I'm not including elements like queuing up an interaction and having it fail to activate. As far as I know, that's a technical misstep, so I'm not counting it as part of the design.
Mods moved from MTS, now hosted at: https://triplis.github.io
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Comments
A video game needs to balance things such as failure states to keep the player invested and the impression I get with the sims is that you are yourself supposed to decide how difficult and rewarding the game should be. And I think that the sims4 is lacking somewhat in that regard at least for me. I do not feel any reason to make it harder because it is not very satisfying for me, I will either get frustrated or start playing the game differently.
I think the sims4 should offer you more configuration options which will make it harder or easier for the player and also reward the player.
A built in system for challenges could do that for example or pre-made families or lots which follow a specific difficulty.
I want to feel the same satisfaction in the sims like when I defeat a difficult boss in an action game with my upgraded weapons and skills and abilities. Or when I win at a difficult race with a customized car for a specific tournament in a racing game.
Still, even I wish it would give me MORE to work with.
One particular aspect is that I want skills to matter more. Not having the right skill is a nice fail state and incentive to re-evaluate/redirect in my opinion. The Strangerville mystery and the detective career, both gameplay elements that I dearly love, are lacking some proper skill gates where I can feel accomplished for having chosen a certain build for my sim. I mean, if I don't have the required skillset on my sim(s), I can always train them or locate a townie with the expertise, befriend them and move them in. So why not place skillgates? They aren't likely to cause the player to fail, just make things more interesting!
Thanks
I like having some open-ended households. I definitely think that there is room to add complexity but I don't want a lot of failure states forced on me either. As it is, I think it's annoying that a lot of the "chance cards" during the work day have negative events or that the various teen phases are mostly negative. I'm not wanting everything to be happy all the time but some of those events are more like nuisances than significant gameplay.
I think there are areas in which they can build out the complexity of the game. Parenthood was a pretty good version of this in spite of the negative phases and outcomes. It's not that I'm looking to play an easy game, it's just that I want flexibility in terms of creating challenges for my sims and determining the outcomes. I like how DU approaches the topic.
Making more complex personalities and developing romance seem like obvious areas to work on.
Should they make it easier to fail in ways such as being fired for being late to a job? Sure. I don't want all of my sims to be forced to be like those of other players though, so I don't want to be directed into playing my sims a certain way on an ongoing basis.
Yeah, I mean, I definitely don't believe in forcing railroaded stuff on those who don't want it in a primarily sandbox game. I also think there's a fine line between railroaded content, or punishment, and a somewhat dynamic system that pushes you to try something in a different way.
Being fired for being late to work might shake things up, but it might also just make you paranoid about getting your sim out the door in time. I kinda feel that way about the neglect mechanics, for example. "Feed your toddler!" or what have you. It just stresses me out. I was going to make sure they were fed either way. On the other hand, if failing to feed them resulted in them throwing a fit and refusing to eat and running around the house, and now I have to calm them down / reel them in somehow or they're just going to run around until they pass out on the floor, well now maybe it changes how I was going to approach the situation. A new kind of challenge or obstacle, if you will, has to be overcome. Maybe, if I calm them down, it builds a sizable chunk of emotional control, so they're less likely to do it in the future.
Relating that reasoning to the work example, maybe if you're late, there's a chance you get written up and it makes it a bit harder to succeed at your work as a stacking penalty. So now you have to choose how you want to handle it. Do you come in early in the future to overcome it? Do you try to schmooze with your boss, even if immediate work performance suffers in the process, taking the chance for long-term gain in the relationship you build there? Now instead of it being an immediate penalty with no take-backs, you're facing consequences you can try to address and maybe in addressing it, you become more immune to it in the future. Or maybe you just let it stack up and your sim becomes stuck at the same performance/promotion level until you do something about it, in the process giving you a tool to let them fail in that way if that's the kind of character you want them to be.
Another example: Instead of cooking skill being the main determination of whether you can start a fire while cooking, maybe your sim can take fire safety classes of some kind. So then it becomes a choice as to how to react to the problem when they start a fire while cooking and you even have more flexibility in character as to what kind of sim they will be; do you give them the fire safety classes or do you let them be a dangerous cook?
Some things, like the cooking fire chance, is a problem that mostly solves itself. Your sim cooks enough times and they will reach a skill where it basically never happens. This is arguably both unfavorable for having control over the sims and unfavorable for having interesting consequences. Now in that particular case, I don't know that the consequence is interesting enough to warrant it being something that doesn't have those built-in safety rails to inexorably move you toward it not being an issue anymore. But it probably could be made to be more interesting.
I'm very much all for more challenges. I don't think Sims really works as an 100% sandbox. It's cool to design houses and people's appearance, but at the end of the day, the Sims DO essentially act like people. If they're not occult, they don't fly. They don't laugh hysterically when they wet themselves. They don't try to eat chairs. And if you wanted a completely insane person, maybe you'd want them to do or attempt to do these things!
Sims can't be all things to all people, and we know this. Sims don't have interior lives. They don't ask themselves whether or not they're worthy of love. And they probably never will, and we're okay with that. So I think the Sims needs to embrace the fact that it can't and won't ever be an 100% sandbox game and, really, if you want that, just write a novel. Pen and paper are the ultimate sandbox
I got into the Sims because I like designing houses. I researched all these Scottish and English manors and finally designed one from scratch, but after I was done I thought, "Who would live in this kind of house? What would their lives be like?" And so I thought, "I'll get into live-mode and find out!"
It didn't take long before I realized that stories don't happen on the Sims. All the characters immediately started dancing, drinking, and playing video games, despite their very different interests. So if I wanted a story, I was going to have to force it. So I wrote an outline, designed the characters, designed their love interests, designed their friends and enemies, and designed the general arc of their stories. It went okay for a while until I realized a few things:
People can't actually be bad on the sims. So you can't really have antagonists. And Sims can't overcome personal problems. And nature doesn't really attack you either. Nothing really bad happens on the Sims and if you want something bad to happen, you will have to work harder to make something bad happen than to make something good happen. The challenge of the Sims 4 isn't achieving your dreams: it's not achieving your dreams. And so, even if you want your sims to face adversary, you have limited selections for what that adversary is and you have to actively pursue the adversary. And again: very limited options for that adversary.
For instance: I want the Lassen kids to be affected by the death of their mother, Angie. When Angie dies, they'll be given a 2-day sad moonlet that can be made much shorter by crying it out and jogging. Afterwards, Angie's death will probably never cross their minds again. If I want them to continue to be sad about Angie, I have to force them to haul over to her grace and mourn for her, every single time. I do not have to force them to be creative or cook or go to the bathroom.
So, if the plot of the Sims 4 is really about achieving your dreams (which, honestly seems to be the only plot we're allowed to have) then the ONLY adversary comes from stuff that distracts you from fulfilling your aspirations. So, yes, I think more redirection and complication is a must for that specific element of the game.
So in addition to more complex personalities for Sims (which I hear Sims 3 actually did better!), I think the Sims would benefit from more redirection/challenge to their wants (like you said) as well as the presence of antagonist forces that actively work against the Sims characters' goals