I personally really love occults, but I don’t think it’s the players fault for these changes (if they really did change anything). I think the design simply was off when it came to how they got involved in your game.
In The Sims 2, alien invasions weren’t completely random. Your Sim had to actually interact with their telescope numerous times for them to have a shot at getting abducted. Vampires wouldn’t just randomly break in your house, you had to be on the same lot as them around midnight for them to get remotely close to your Sim.
I don’t play the game as a sandbox where I must be in complete control, and as I’ve posted so many times, I love and prefer the game to throw curve balls my way to ensure I’m getting some challenge in the mix. However, random occult appearances on my Sim’s lot don’t really make sense to me, from a game design perspective. There should be a player triggered action which can either yield a reward or failure state. In TS2, the telescope can give my Sim so much money from discovering stars, etc, but that risk of alien abduction is there to make sure I’m not succeeding without risk. And that risk is also there when I use the genie, interact with that spooky wolf (Werewolves), garden excessively (Plant Sims), and so on.
I really wish they’d take a long look at the game design of TS2 because things made so much more sense back then. There was more detail and depth put into everything, but especially occults. I mean, take servos in The Sims 2, for instance. Bundled in Open for Business, they were designed so well, and have so many neat extras such as the ability to become a hybrid occult. Vampire servo? Sounds crazy, right? But it’s very possible in TS2, and so cool to play with.
If there are going to be triggers, they should be a bit more obscure, not regular game play. Personally, I wanted to collect all the telescope space pictures and play the scientist career without my Sims being abducted. (And believe me, it has not been nerfed - my doctor Sim was abducted numerous times.) The satellite object can sort of block it, but you have to remember to reset it every day, and since you can't reset it until 24 h & 1 min have passed, the reset time moves by at least 10 min every day.
They've done better with more recent packs - you have to do some very specific things to get involved in the Strangerville mystery; you won't see mermaids unless you want to, and random NPCs aren't casting spells on my Sims. For me, it's less a matter of the occults existing than the extent to which they interfere with my Sims.
In the alien example, I do think there could be an item our Sim could hold to prevent an abduction from resulting in unwanted results (such as having to craft a ray gun and hold it in their inventory during the abduction). That, at least, could involve us doing some preparation which, without, would result in a negative result.
I do think the game should throw me off course from my goals, unless I'm careful and prepare for things, so the game isn't predictable and easy. Using your example, setting a goal to collect all the telescope space pictures and to play the scientist career without abduction and having the ability to achieve that with the game going 100% your way will basically make the game itself become nothing more than a grind. And that isn't really fun, to me.
I usually am all for complaints about EA but honestly, EA has released all the occults we had in Sims 3 except fairies and werewolves. I think they have done an ok job at adding the occults.
I understand the occults are not really at their full potential but you have to ask yourself what in this game is. The realism gameplay is just as bad as the occult gameplay so I don't really understand the whole catering to the realistic players. Babies are still objects. The children are always left out of any new gameplay that is added to the game. Elders have like nothing. If this is about the stuff pack and how the vote went, did you really want another half baked occult pack? It is a stuff pack and there is no way it was going to be that detailed.
I was over the Stuff Pack a while ago. I expected Knitting to win, even if I was still mad when it did.
The head Gurus when the Sims 4 came out actually weren't going for the life simulation route, but going for less of a life simulator and more for shallow happy go lucky drama instead. So anything deemed "negative" is viewed as bad for all things politically correct including supernaturals. It sucks but yeah the direction Sims 4 was going for is more like a set for a sitcom rather than a life simulator anyways and sadly that includes being exclusive to anything that makes Sims differently abled including being hated for being a supernatural Sim. Goes right along with survival of the fittest mentality that unless you look good and are a strong young adult, nothing else matters whether you are a kid, an elder, a baby, or have a disability or being a supernatural witch because these things are viewed as weak to the rich man society and sadly to the Sims now. That is why it isn't a life simulation game, but just another puppet show that only the rich and healthy can rule. Everyone else doesn't matter.
In short, I think both realistic and supernatural players are getting poor content for their play styles. Only ones who are truly happy are ones that like dressing up their Sims like Barbie dolls. CAS as poor as it is compared to CAST is still the strongest thing the Sims 4 has going for it. According to the article CAS was the most important aspect of the Sims 4 too it seems: "We want players to imbue a sense of importance. Create-a-Sim in Sims 4 just became all the more important."
Also for storytelling purposes as much as I love supernaturals, I would love toggles too because for storytelling having a select few supernaturals turned on work especially if someone is trying to make a Vampire Diaries or My Little Mermaid story.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
To be frank, I don't care about most occults and have gripes with all the current ones. But I would like me some cool werewolves - real beast people. Not the ape-faced semi freaks from Sims 3, but actual wolfy ones, and I want my Don Lothario to become one
Having said that, however, I believe the Devs are trying to strike a balance. I don't think The Sims was ever about supernaturals and unrealism, and so the main focus is on regular human Sims and realism - plus a good portion of cartoonishness. This is the basic cake. Supernaturals are like the frosting or an ingredient. Not the main thing.
But...I wish the occults were at least free of bugs. While there is a lot of really nice things in the game, parts of it feels rather half-hearted.
If werewolves were to be added, I would wish for them to be unique, fleshed out and accompanied with some were-lore.
One thing that bugs me is the frequent re-use of animations and effects. When a Sim turns into a spellcaster, I feel it's the same music playing as when a Sim turns into a vampire. Gah..
Origin ID: Nindigo79
A smile is the prettiest thing you can wear
Time enjoyed is never time wasted
In the alien example, I do think there could be an item our Sim could hold to prevent an abduction from resulting in unwanted results (such as having to craft a ray gun and hold it in their inventory during the abduction). That, at least, could involve us doing some preparation which, without, would result in a negative result.
I do think the game should throw me off course from my goals, unless I'm careful and prepare for things, so the game isn't predictable and easy. Using your example, setting a goal to collect all the telescope space pictures and to play the scientist career without abduction and having the ability to achieve that with the game going 100% your way will basically make the game itself become nothing more than a grind. And that isn't really fun, to me.
What if there's someone who loves the concept of a scientist but finds the concept of aliens (let alone abductions and male pregnancy) total nonsense - or just an overused cliché they hate? They have to choose: both or neither - something a switch would prevent.
Heck, I would be in that camp (I am alien skeptic all the way IRL) if not for the closed world - I just can't stand the idea that while I control one sim in an active career, the rest of my family (as I am mainly a family player) would be left to the poor off-screen AI which solved this for me and GTW is an EP I won't ever buy even though I love the concept of a scientist.
I might be in the minority that considers very carefully which pack to buy - and while I consider myself more a realistic player, there are some occult themes I like (RoM falls there) - and is a reason why I'd love to see a switch for occults added, at least in 'hybrid' packs such as GTW or IL. And while there many realistic packs/themes I'd like to see (farm pack+horses, actual health system instead of the GTW travesty, maybe another travel pack if I liked the theme), there are several occult themes I'd consider if they are executed well (*howls at the moon* *wink*).
I like good mix of occult + realism myself so honestly I wouldn't mind more realism in 2020
especially when it comes to sims themselves, relationships, interactions and romance TT
romance has been totally missed and regardless of species my sims need to have more romance
pls gimme
I also feel like many occults I am looking forward to would thrive in "ancient worlds"
so I am looking for gameplay that makes world feel old as heck first in way or another (and what would ancient worlds be without realistic struggles)
I am wishing they make gp out of happy haunts+dangerous stuff eventually
(grimmy, psychics,seances and funerals are high on my list of wants)
and I also wish that some mythology would take place cause that just be interesting overall maybe with ancient world and all
also, DRAGONS.
big ones that do stuff and you can interact with
fairies and werewolfs be cool but not in great rush since well we've had them in previous series and I always felt them lil boring so meanwhile id like to see redo im not as hype
Since the topic title does not mention occults, am bringing up ways the game departs from realism:
Travel, other than walking in the neighborhood, is via teleportation, not any earthly mode
Sims get food costs automatically deducted from household funds per meal, not by going to the store to buy groceries or order delivery
No need for them to go to a store and buy clothes, but instant full access to the entire stock in CAS. For free, yet.
Towns (worlds) are not self sufficient, rather the whole planet is instantly available
Sims from the whole planet roam around freely in all towns, indeed are met more often than one's neighbors
The shortcomings of the sims themselves are too legion to mention
Over abundant 'fashion police' disasters, and not just with townies, and not just festivals/events
I get it this is not a full life simulator, but there should be a reasonable balance of life and whimsy. The earlier versions did that well, so for this one to be so abysmal speaks of either sudden mass incompetence or a deliberate corporate choice to gut a used to be great game.
As a player who enjoys both playstyles, I don't see it as the devs catering to one style over the other. I see it as the devs removing player choices, period. It goes deeper than just this surface or that, and has resulted in a lack of gameplay no matter how you slice it.
Instead of pointing fingers at each other, we should be shining a very bright light on the source of the problem. That is not the players.
I'm sure most of you remember when EA neutered Vampire Break-Ins and Alien Abductions. If not, well, that happened. Anyways, it really saddens me that EA would be forced to neuter Vampire Break-Ins because Realistic players were complaining about how "Vampires keep breaking in, and it's sooooo immersion breaking!" and "Ugh, why are Vampires breaking into my house?" and- well, you get the point. You bought a pack specifically titled "Vampires" and are now complaining about Vampires being in your game. Sure, you bought it for the BB/CAS. That's on you. You paid for a pack you probably knew would not contain gameplay you liked, and also probably knew about the break-ins, but you bought it anyways and then complained. I'm not going to whine about Alien Abductions because they come with Get to Work, and in this case you certainly could have wanted much more gameplay than the aliens, but I am going to complain about a lot of stuff.
You've probably noticed the lack of anything occult. We have four "real" occults we can play with, "real" meaning can be made from scratch in CAS. Aliens, Vampires, Mermaids, and Spellcasters. I can name a HUGE problem with each and every one of them.
Aliens - Stuck in with GTW and are forced to live on Earth. Like, you made a full world for them, but they can't live there?
Vampires- Neutered. As stated above, complaints of Realistic players who bought the pack for BB/CAS caused EA to severely town down their break-ins, one of the best parts of their gameplay.
Mermaids- Do I even have to explain this one?
Spellcasters- Not brought out to their full potential, even for a Game Pack!
The saddest part is that we're unlikely to receive any new occults for at least six months, maybe even years, maybe not ever. And there's about a 2:3 ratio of Occult to Realistic players here on the forums, so that is in no way fair.
I don't believe I've mentioned yet the many complaints I've seen about Occults. For example,
"This is a life simulator, and life doesn't have occults!"
"Occults are a waste of resources."
"Why would people want occults? They're so annoying."
The list goes on. I have a response to each of them.
Who ever said this was a realistic life simulator?
To you, but there are quite a few people who disagree.
Then don't buy them.
Please, add your own bits and pieces to my rant. I want EA to hear this, so they can restore our Vampires to their full potential and give us more playable occults, preferably one a year until The Sims 5 rolls around, in which case I would like to continue that pattern.
I couldn’t possibly say more than you did, or say it better.
The feature bolded above is a feature I specifically paid for. The fact that it’s been all but eliminated makes me actually feel like I should get some kind of refund on my purchase since this was a fully advertised feature of this pack. The only complaint I have ever had about any occult ever was the vampire break ins on public lots that effectively trapped sims. But the home break ins and the alien abductions were some of the quirky weird happenstance that drew me to this game in the first place. It’s maddening to get all excited for a feature only to have it dampened down by a group of people who complain because they want to play Barbie, or house but not The Sims.
i'm half and half. i bought the vampire pack just for the furniture. but i also own rom and suprisingly like it more than any of the other occult packs. thats why i say half and half.
As a player who enjoys both playstyles, I don't see it as the devs catering to one style over the other. I see it as the devs removing player choices, period. It goes deeper than just this surface or that, and has resulted in a lack of gameplay no matter how you slice it.
Instead of pointing fingers at each other, we should be shining a very bright light on the source of the problem. That is not the players.
Alright, first of all, I do think that the nerfs to occult sims have been really unnecessary. Why they didn't just learn from the alien abductions and add a toggle when modders have been able to successfully add the feature is beyond me. In fact, the lack of toggles for supernatural sims is a symptom of the overall stinginess with gameplay options in TS4. Autonomy only comes in "Full" and "Off", the aging modes and lifestage lengths aren't customizable, you can't set parameters for things like relationship decay and automatic creation of new romantic relationships on inactive households, you can't set the difficulty of careers and aspirations, and so-on. Compared to TS3, the gameplay options in TS4 are so barren it's not even funny...when mods like MC Command Center show that they could actually have been made just as robust, if not more so. So, instead of giving players more choices in the gameplay options, with a few simple pre-sets (much like with graphics settings) for the novice and "set it and forget it" players, they gave us barely any options at all, and when players give feedback that indicates that there IS a need for those options after all, they just nerf whatever the complainers are complaining about and to Heck with the people who were fine with things as they were or maybe wanted whatever it was to be more difficult or happen more frequently.
In general, I think that the drought of supernatural gameplay features throughout this game's life cycle has really been a detriment. With the improved CAS mode, creating supernatural sims that look distinctly inhuman is easier than ever...but the actual releases of supernatural sims have been glacial. This is frustrating to players like me, (who, after the first time trying the CAS demo, immediately thought, "Oh, man! This is going to make *insert favorite supernatural sim here* a BLAST to make when they come out!") because we WANT to see supernatural sims evolve, both gameplay-wise AND aesthetically, just as much as other players want to see family play or building or sim AI evolve with each new game. Waiting for YEARS between supernatural releases has been really frustrating and depressing for me and players like me, probably even more so than object babies for family players or the long wait for advanced build mode tools has been for builders. Then, to see realism players getting so much more content (quantity-wise) than us, while we are slowly drip-fed only occasional supernatural gameplay (2019 was a stand-out year, with a sci-fi mystery roleplay GP, mermaids, and spellcasters all in one year--the fastest roll-out of supernatural content since aliens were introduced in GTW just a few months after ghosts were patched into the base game in 2014-2015), and what we DO get is always in danger of being nerfed or under-developed for the sake of realism players all because the developers refuse to add one little, tiny option to the gameplay options menu and realism players want the whole game to revolve around nothing but normal, slice-of-life scenarios.
I mean, what if the tables were turned? What if TS4 gave us vampires, aliens, ghosts, magic, werewolves, robots, superheroes, plant sims (real ones, not that temporary status effect junk), mad science, zombies, giant mecha, imaginary friends, genies, AI hologram waifus/husbandos, fairies, centaurs, satyrs, elves, dragons, steampunk contraptions, etc., but we were still, five years later, waiting on hot tubs, dishwashers, bowling, slip-n-slides, bootleg pokemon, active careers, after school activities, laundry, restaurants, spas, and vacation spots? What if realism players had had to wait two years a piece between new careers? Realism players would be rioting in the proverbial streets and complaining about how the game is dead because "Our babies are still stuck to the crib and we have to use mods to get things around the house to get dirty anymore because supernatural players complained that stopping their sims training for a few sim minutes to wash a bathtub was breaking their immersion, but those darn weebs are about to get tentacle monsters, kappas, and nine-tailed foxes in the next pack!" And what if we supernatural players responded like, "Dude, it's a game! Who wants to lug a baby around or sit in a hot tub or go to work when you can do all that in REAL LIFE! Yeesh, go outside or watch 99% of all live-action, teen-though-adult film and television if you want boring old normal life. Games are for fantasy!"? Oooh, the fit they'd pitch!! (Don't roll your eyes at me, realism players, ya'll know ya'll's people...)
So, I wouldn't mind if every pack in 2020 is a supernatural-themed pack. Realism players have been getting things that fit well with their playstyle and the stories they want to play out through their gameplay much more frequently, while supernatural players have been desperately grasping at whatever crumbs we can get. To satisfy the realism-slice-of-life crowd, they should just put the fargin' on/off toggles for supernatural stuff in the options already. It'll be six years next year since the game was released, it's time for some more advanced options that DON'T come from a mod that you have to manually update every time the game is patched...
Sims get food costs automatically deducted from household funds per meal, not by going to the store to buy groceries or order delivery
No need for them to go to a store and buy clothes, but instant full access to the entire stock in CAS. For free, yet.
Both were the case in #1 and #3 - can't speak for #2 as my father's potato PC couldn't run it back then. TS3 added the option to manually go to various stores - and I loved that part because it was a way to organically meet other people in the open world - but it was optional.
I admit I'd love at least a simplified system of buying clothes - it'd be something to spend money later on and maybe add some meaning to the career unlock outfits (which would still be 'gifted' free). However, it'd be an issue with initial CAS (you don't get to see the household's money until you get to move-in screen), require rising the starting money (so the sims don't start naked) with Seasons having a major impact on that due to Cold/Hot weather outfits. And, finally, it would require every single piece of CC clothing to be updated for that. Hence I believe it'd be best to leave it for TS5 (if it ever comes) and have it since the start with the game mechanics fully built with that in mind.
In the alien example, I do think there could be an item our Sim could hold to prevent an abduction from resulting in unwanted results (such as having to craft a ray gun and hold it in their inventory during the abduction). That, at least, could involve us doing some preparation which, without, would result in a negative result.
I do think the game should throw me off course from my goals, unless I'm careful and prepare for things, so the game isn't predictable and easy. Using your example, setting a goal to collect all the telescope space pictures and to play the scientist career without abduction and having the ability to achieve that with the game going 100% your way will basically make the game itself become nothing more than a grind. And that isn't really fun, to me.
What if there's someone who loves the concept of a scientist but finds the concept of aliens (let alone abductions and male pregnancy) total nonsense - or just an overused cliché they hate? They have to choose: both or neither - something a switch would prevent.
Heck, I would be in that camp (I am alien skeptic all the way IRL) if not for the closed world - I just can't stand the idea that while I control one sim in an active career, the rest of my family (as I am mainly a family player) would be left to the poor off-screen AI which solved this for me and GTW is an EP I won't ever buy even though I love the concept of a scientist.
I might be in the minority that considers very carefully which pack to buy - and while I consider myself more a realistic player, there are some occult themes I like (RoM falls there) - and is a reason why I'd love to see a switch for occults added, at least in 'hybrid' packs such as GTW or IL. And while there many realistic packs/themes I'd like to see (farm pack+horses, actual health system instead of the GTW travesty, maybe another travel pack if I liked the theme), there are several occult themes I'd consider if they are executed well (*howls at the moon* *wink*).
This is exactly my point - as someone who actually paid attention in science classes and took them at university, I have no patience for fake science. Real scientists get excited when they find conditions that might be compatible with life on a distant planet, or spend their time debunking so-called alien sightings. If I were playing a paranormal career, then yes, aliens would be expected. Scientists? Maybe they could choose between a path that leads them to discover aliens, and one that stays on a more realistic path. And it certainly shouldn't be a consequence of choosing the doctor career. (You can't even get the satellite unless you've played the scientist career to a certain level, unless you use cheats.)
BTW, you can play the scientist career and reach the top without ever following your Sim to work. It's actually quite fun - there are loads of things you can do at home.
Personally, I bought GTW because I wanted random illnesses back in my game. I'm rather disappointed with that part - illness doesn't work as it did in previous games, in which you actually had to do something to avoid having your Sim die, and while your Sim was ill, it affected her ability to do normal things, such as work or school. Instead of a realistic situtation for our Sims to navigate, as in 'life simulator', we get random alien abductions. If they were going to be bundled with a pack, a futuristic one would make more sense.
Since the topic title does not mention occults, am bringing up ways the game departs from realism:
Travel, other than walking in the neighborhood, is via teleportation, not any earthly mode
Sims get food costs automatically deducted from household funds per meal, not by going to the store to buy groceries or order delivery
No need for them to go to a store and buy clothes, but instant full access to the entire stock in CAS. For free, yet.
Towns (worlds) are not self sufficient, rather the whole planet is instantly available
Sims from the whole planet roam around freely in all towns, indeed are met more often than one's neighbors
The shortcomings of the sims themselves are too legion to mention
Over abundant 'fashion police' disasters, and not just with townies, and not just festivals/events
I get it this is not a full life simulator, but there should be a reasonable balance of life and whimsy. The earlier versions did that well, so for this one to be so abysmal speaks of either sudden mass incompetence or a deliberate corporate choice to gut a used to be great game.
lol, yeah, this doesn't sound very realistic does it, and it's not very realistic if I don't supply Sims with food they magically eat something they found in their pockets (just appears).
It's not very realistic to see the same Sims at the gym, three days later, either. (Still there). But I guess people are able to suspend their disbelief easier than I am, or there would be more complaints about loading screens as soon as we run up to the property line to knock on a door. And just came into my head, don't even get me started on slot popping, then players claim the game is realistic. Or Sims not even having to walk to a pc to order meds, but then tell me they don't like magic or occults.....
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Personally, I bought GTW because I wanted random illnesses back in my game. I'm rather disappointed with that part - illness doesn't work as it did in previous games, in which you actually had to do something to avoid having your Sim die, and while your Sim was ill, it affected her ability to do normal things, such as work or school. Instead of a realistic situtation for our Sims to navigate, as in 'life simulator', we get random alien abductions. If they were going to be bundled with a pack, a futuristic one would make more sense.
The problem I see there is that they're only something the doctor sim has to identify instead of something that would have a logical/realistic system connected to everyday gameplay as well as traits and skills, instead of being only relevant for a single career. I've described my ideas a few months ago in this thread.
I thought vampires were not nerfed? I remember @SimGuruNinja stating specifically on this forum that they hasn’t been. (In response to people complaining they were)
I’m not an occult fan. But I think vampires are very well done. I have the pack because it was gifted to me. It doesn’t bother me that Vlad would text me welcoming me, didn’t really bother me when he did visit because it wasn’t a regular thing. The thing where vamps stood outside on the lawn all night was just wierd. I mean bite me already. I tried playing as a vamp once and I did enjoy it. What put off was something unrelated to vampires altogether.
Aliens I can ignore easily enough, I’m not a big fan of alien night and I rarely used the scientist career but I’ve had a few abductions. I’ve had more abductions than vamp break ins.
I don’t think though it’s fair to blame the players. This year has been pretty good for occult count. Strangerville, mermaids, spell casters. Spell casters probably are lame to those who want to play exclusively as a witch or wizard but that’s down to choices made by the powers that be. When I tried spell casters they bored me simply because they didn’t feel unique enough to warrant their own life state.
I think it’s the balance between your game without super naturals and playing with it that needs to be better. Previous games managed this. Sims 4 really struggles. It’s okay to want to have one save with all the supernaturals but in another save not want them there at all. And this is not possible. If I were inclined to want spell casters in my game I would be more inclined to get the pack now they have stopped every sim and their neighbour becoming magical.
I know this is about Occults specifically, but I wish the game devs considered that players might want to create life scenarios from other time periods as well. It's kind of a tunnel-vision thing to create a life simulator but life is primarily based in contemporary/modern times, just as they focus mostly on realistic players (granted I would play realistic in a period-era version too). I don't want a game that starts in an earlier time period and works towards advancement to the modern age, I just want The Sims to allow me to have my Sims exist in the pre-modern age without all of the components that come with TS4 modernity like all of the technology and that just be their life.
@invisiblgirl get Cats and Dogs if you want a bunch of illness all the time. And get my 1st pet pack if you want your sim sick with real life consequences.
@Sk8rblaze if your sim is in the science career, you can build the satellite and turn on no abductions. Or use a cheat to purchase the dish. Don't want to use a cheat, in world view move your sim/family to an empty lot, go into build and place the satellite on the roof, and then move the family back into the house.
Alien abductions only happen on the active lot. In my game they have happened randomly. Usually when I want a sim abducted it doesn't happen. I find it funny & interesting. It really isn't that deep tho and not sure why folks are bothered by it, unless they are very young players (children or tweens).
wocka wocka wockaWho gave that puppy asparagus?please do not send me private messages - they creep me out 🤢🤮😱
I know this is about Occults specifically, but I wish the game devs considered that players might want to create life scenarios from other time periods as well. It's kind of a tunnel-vision thing to create a life simulator but life is primarily based in contemporary/modern times, just as they focus mostly on realistic players (granted I would play realistic in a period-era version too). I don't want a game that starts in an earlier time period and works towards advancement to the modern age, I just want The Sims to allow me to have my Sims exist in the pre-modern age without all of the components that come with TS4 modernity like all of the technology and that just be their life.
I agree. It's harder to play medieval times TS4 than the other three. One factor is everyone having a phone. It was hard in TS3 since townies were using their phones autonomously. My own Sims in TS4 whip it out when I don't give them a pc or a TV. That sure breaks immersion. TS2 is the best game in my opinion to actually play different time periods. We don't have to give any Sim a phone, or have them get a job with a carpool, and can use cc to change the streets to dirt roads. Even TS3 allows us to change the road to dirt within the game. But TS4's careers (most all) revolve around a pc, even the part time jobs or stay at home jobs. I can spend years in TS2 playing Victorian Sims or Medieval Sims without any TVs, phones or pcs or a career. They can use objects like the chess board for fun, or relax on a bed for fun, daydreaming. I can change the skin of the newspaper and it becomes parchment and so I never have to have any modern objects on the lots. Bars in TS4 requires us to add a TV... where as in TS2 I can add a dart board, and a poker table and never have to add modern objects for them to use to have fun. Not even a pool table in TS4 that could be used instead of electric TVs. TS2 comes with candles that are lights, never even have to have modern lights in restaurants. With a little bit of custom skins for stoves or fridges (looks like pantries) I can have a totally immersive different time period. Heck I can even add stage coaches, or horse drawn carts and buggies etc. without breaking the bank on cc to play a different time period. In TS4 I'm stuck with backdrops which take away my imaginary world vision. Not being able to remove those backdrops spoils the atmosphere of what I'm trying to imagine and play. TS4 is way too restrictive. Even TS1 didn't make me play lots I couldn't edit. As far as customization, I could extract the pigeon mailbox from TSM and replace the TS2 mailbox. But in TS4 they would still have those phones. I would still be looking at modern backdrops.
ETA: even in TS2 I can just clone within the game,the NPC/townie maker and can give them the clothes I want them to wear, give the townies the clothes I want them to wear, create my own townies (right in the game) and never have to worry about a spawned Sims wearing modern day clothes. Heck I can even change the townie clothes with OFB if I don't want to spawn the Townie maker and eventually sell them all an outift more fitting to the time period. With a lot less work than I can do this in TS4. I'll end this long soapbox speech with this, TS4 smothers us with modernization, it's not only the lack of occults and or other creature features.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I know this is about Occults specifically, but I wish the game devs considered that players might want to create life scenarios from other time periods as well. It's kind of a tunnel-vision thing to create a life simulator but life is primarily based in contemporary/modern times, just as they focus mostly on realistic players (granted I would play realistic in a period-era version too). I don't want a game that starts in an earlier time period and works towards advancement to the modern age, I just want The Sims to allow me to have my Sims exist in the pre-modern age without all of the components that come with TS4 modernity like all of the technology and that just be their life.
I agree. It's harder to play medieval times TS4 than the other three. One factor is everyone having a phone. It was hard in TS3 since townies were using their phones autonomously. My own Sims in TS4 whip it out when I don't give them a pc or a TV. That sure breaks immersion. TS2 is the best game in my opinion to actually play different time periods. We don't have to give any Sim a phone, or have them get a job with a carpool, and can use cc to change the streets to dirt roads. Even TS3 allows us to change the road to dirt within the game. But TS4's careers (most all) revolve around a pc, even the part time jobs or stay at home jobs. I can spend years in TS2 playing Victorian Sims or Medieval Sims without any TVs, phones or pcs or a career. They can use objects like the chess board for fun, or relax on a bed for fun, daydreaming. I can change the skin of the newspaper and it becomes parchment and so I never have to have any modern objects on the lots. Bars in TS4 requires us to add a TV... where as in TS2 I can add a dart board, and a poker table and never have to add modern objects for them to use to have fun. Not even a pool table in TS4 that could be used instead of electric TVs. TS2 comes with candles that are lights, never even have to have modern lights in restaurants. With a little bit of custom skins for stoves or fridges (looks like pantries) I can have a totally immersive different time period. Heck I can even add stage coaches, or horse drawn carts and buggies etc. without breaking the bank on cc to play a different time period. In TS4 I'm stuck with backdrops which take away my imaginary world vision. Not being able to remove those backdrops spoils the atmosphere of what I'm trying to imagine and play. TS4 is way too restrictive. Even TS1 didn't make me play lots I couldn't edit. As far as customization, I could extract the pigeon mailbox from TSM and replace the TS2 mailbox. But in TS4 they would still have those phones. I would still be looking at modern backdrops.
ETA: even in TS2 I can just clone within the game,the NPC/townie maker and can give them the clothes I want them to wear, give the townies the clothes I want them to wear, create my own townies (right in the game) and never have to worry about a spawned Sims wearing modern day clothes. Heck I can even change the townie clothes with OFB if I don't want to spawn the Townie maker and eventually sell them all an outift more fitting to the time period. With a lot less work than I can do this in TS4. I'll end this long soapbox speech with this, TS4 smothers us with modernization, it's not only the lack of occults and or other creature features.
I completely understand, and honestly I would be more drawn to Occults if I could erase some of the modernity too. Obviously modern supernatural stuff is everywhere in the media so there's established canon for them in contemporary times, but I do like the idea of supernaturals existing independent of it and I can't do that either with the way the game is set up. Sometimes I just want to play in a Jane Austen-era or mid-century scenario and have it feel like it makes sense. But I can't because of much of the reasons you listed.
@NationalPokedex Honestly, I can imagine how fun playing a Dracula retelling would be on the Sims if we had a more historical content.
Here's the biggest caveat for me personally. I'm pretty opposed to people sweeping history's more problematic elements under the rug. So you want to play in Colonial America, for instance. Okay, but you'll have to deal with slavery. Which is awful. And can't be swept under the rug so that we pretend that America has always been a shining paragon of fairness. And women can't get jobs unless it's "maid" or "flower-girl" or "cook." But children can and poorer children have to. And you'd need servants, lots of them. Which is pretty unpleasant, given the living conditions of servants.
I think we have a tendency to idealize the past, and I'm not sure how comfortable the Sims team is with including all these brutal elements. And even if you wanted to do "alternate timelines" where we have modern values in a historical context, I'd still say there's some moral grey-ness to rewriting the past. Not that it's flat out wrong, of course, but with certain people in the modern era saying things like "Slavery was a choice", it makes me juuuuust a bit weary of the idea that someone could actually make slavery a choice, even if only for their personal entertainment. Idealizing the past tends to encourage making the same mistakes. Whether we've enjoyed it or not, these past 15 years have been the best, most free time for anyone to be alive.
But then again... balls and carriages and hoop skirts and horseback riding into town ahhhhhhh
@NationalPokedex Honestly, I can imagine how fun playing a Dracula retelling would be on the Sims if we had a more historical content.
Here's the biggest caveat for me personally. I'm pretty opposed to people sweeping history's more problematic elements under the rug. So you want to play in Colonial America, for instance. Okay, but you'll have to deal with slavery. Which is awful. And can't be swept under the rug so that we pretend that America has always been a shining paragon of fairness. And women can't get jobs unless it's "maid" or "flower-girl" or "cook." But children can and poorer children have to. And you'd need servants, lots of them. Which is pretty unpleasant, given the living conditions of servants.
I think we have a tendency to idealize the past, and I'm not sure how comfortable the Sims team is with including all these brutal elements. And even if you wanted to do "alternate timelines" where we have modern values in a historical context, I'd still say there's some moral grey-ness to rewriting the past. Not that it's flat out wrong, of course, but with certain people in the modern era saying things like "Slavery was a choice", it makes me juuuuust a bit weary of the idea that someone could actually make slavery a choice, even if only for their personal entertainment. Idealizing the past tends to encourage making the same mistakes. Whether we've enjoyed it or not, these past 15 years have been the best, most free time for anyone to be alive.
But then again... balls and carriages and hoop skirts and horseback riding into town ahhhhhhh
Fair points. I should have clarified that I want more historical aesthetics, not necessarily morals or ideology. And I think really this drives home the idea of Sims not having enough personality because I should be able to transport them to another time and they be completely fine, in a sense. Idk I just think the life simulator concept should be more broad than it is and configuring the Sims as individuals is where that starts. But also I don't want to derail this thread! In the same respect, an immersive world for Occults should be established where they can exist without the more realistic elements too. I guess I'm realizing that a lot of the "personality" that devs say Sims can have is tied up in the modern realism aesthetic.
@NationalPokedex I hear you, definitely. You know, one option might have been to create an occult world based on a historical time period. That way it could have had historical aesthetics while clearly not being an attempt to idealize the past, allowing for people to play both occult and time-period-esque stories. A thought?
Also 100% agreed. As far as a tool to tell stories goes - which, as I understand it, is what Sims 4 advertises itself as - there are no good stories when there are no interesting characters - regardless of time period or genre.
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In the alien example, I do think there could be an item our Sim could hold to prevent an abduction from resulting in unwanted results (such as having to craft a ray gun and hold it in their inventory during the abduction). That, at least, could involve us doing some preparation which, without, would result in a negative result.
I do think the game should throw me off course from my goals, unless I'm careful and prepare for things, so the game isn't predictable and easy. Using your example, setting a goal to collect all the telescope space pictures and to play the scientist career without abduction and having the ability to achieve that with the game going 100% your way will basically make the game itself become nothing more than a grind. And that isn't really fun, to me.
I was over the Stuff Pack a while ago. I expected Knitting to win, even if I was still mad when it did.
Simple Paralives is a life simulator: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1118520/Paralives/
The head Gurus when the Sims 4 came out actually weren't going for the life simulation route, but going for less of a life simulator and more for shallow happy go lucky drama instead. So anything deemed "negative" is viewed as bad for all things politically correct including supernaturals. It sucks but yeah the direction Sims 4 was going for is more like a set for a sitcom rather than a life simulator anyways and sadly that includes being exclusive to anything that makes Sims differently abled including being hated for being a supernatural Sim. Goes right along with survival of the fittest mentality that unless you look good and are a strong young adult, nothing else matters whether you are a kid, an elder, a baby, or have a disability or being a supernatural witch because these things are viewed as weak to the rich man society and sadly to the Sims now. That is why it isn't a life simulation game, but just another puppet show that only the rich and healthy can rule. Everyone else doesn't matter.
In short, I think both realistic and supernatural players are getting poor content for their play styles. Only ones who are truly happy are ones that like dressing up their Sims like Barbie dolls. CAS as poor as it is compared to CAST is still the strongest thing the Sims 4 has going for it. According to the article CAS was the most important aspect of the Sims 4 too it seems: "We want players to imbue a sense of importance. Create-a-Sim in Sims 4 just became all the more important."
https://venturebeat.com/2014/09/19/how-entertainment-and-life-gives-life-to-the-sims/
Also for storytelling purposes as much as I love supernaturals, I would love toggles too because for storytelling having a select few supernaturals turned on work especially if someone is trying to make a Vampire Diaries or My Little Mermaid story.
Having said that, however, I believe the Devs are trying to strike a balance. I don't think The Sims was ever about supernaturals and unrealism, and so the main focus is on regular human Sims and realism - plus a good portion of cartoonishness. This is the basic cake. Supernaturals are like the frosting or an ingredient. Not the main thing.
But...I wish the occults were at least free of bugs. While there is a lot of really nice things in the game, parts of it feels rather half-hearted.
If werewolves were to be added, I would wish for them to be unique, fleshed out and accompanied with some were-lore.
One thing that bugs me is the frequent re-use of animations and effects. When a Sim turns into a spellcaster, I feel it's the same music playing as when a Sim turns into a vampire. Gah..
A smile is the prettiest thing you can wear
Time enjoyed is never time wasted
What if there's someone who loves the concept of a scientist but finds the concept of aliens (let alone abductions and male pregnancy) total nonsense - or just an overused cliché they hate? They have to choose: both or neither - something a switch would prevent.
Heck, I would be in that camp (I am alien skeptic all the way IRL) if not for the closed world - I just can't stand the idea that while I control one sim in an active career, the rest of my family (as I am mainly a family player) would be left to the poor off-screen AI which solved this for me and GTW is an EP I won't ever buy even though I love the concept of a scientist.
I might be in the minority that considers very carefully which pack to buy - and while I consider myself more a realistic player, there are some occult themes I like (RoM falls there) - and is a reason why I'd love to see a switch for occults added, at least in 'hybrid' packs such as GTW or IL. And while there many realistic packs/themes I'd like to see (farm pack+horses, actual health system instead of the GTW travesty, maybe another travel pack if I liked the theme), there are several occult themes I'd consider if they are executed well (*howls at the moon* *wink*).
I also like wandering the hills.
especially when it comes to sims themselves, relationships, interactions and romance TT
romance has been totally missed and regardless of species my sims need to have more romance
pls gimme
I also feel like many occults I am looking forward to would thrive in "ancient worlds"
so I am looking for gameplay that makes world feel old as heck first in way or another (and what would ancient worlds be without realistic struggles)
I am wishing they make gp out of happy haunts+dangerous stuff eventually
(grimmy, psychics,seances and funerals are high on my list of wants)
and I also wish that some mythology would take place cause that just be interesting overall maybe with ancient world and all
also, DRAGONS.
big ones that do stuff and you can interact with
fairies and werewolfs be cool but not in great rush since well we've had them in previous series and I always felt them lil boring so meanwhile id like to see redo im not as hype
🏡 Gallery 📖 Stories 🌍 World Project 🥔 MOD/CC Free
Travel, other than walking in the neighborhood, is via teleportation, not any earthly mode
Sims get food costs automatically deducted from household funds per meal, not by going to the store to buy groceries or order delivery
No need for them to go to a store and buy clothes, but instant full access to the entire stock in CAS. For free, yet.
Towns (worlds) are not self sufficient, rather the whole planet is instantly available
Sims from the whole planet roam around freely in all towns, indeed are met more often than one's neighbors
The shortcomings of the sims themselves are too legion to mention
Over abundant 'fashion police' disasters, and not just with townies, and not just festivals/events
I get it this is not a full life simulator, but there should be a reasonable balance of life and whimsy. The earlier versions did that well, so for this one to be so abysmal speaks of either sudden mass incompetence or a deliberate corporate choice to gut a used to be great game.
Instead of pointing fingers at each other, we should be shining a very bright light on the source of the problem. That is not the players.
I couldn’t possibly say more than you did, or say it better.
The feature bolded above is a feature I specifically paid for. The fact that it’s been all but eliminated makes me actually feel like I should get some kind of refund on my purchase since this was a fully advertised feature of this pack. The only complaint I have ever had about any occult ever was the vampire break ins on public lots that effectively trapped sims. But the home break ins and the alien abductions were some of the quirky weird happenstance that drew me to this game in the first place. It’s maddening to get all excited for a feature only to have it dampened down by a group of people who complain because they want to play Barbie, or house but not The Sims.
YES!!! I agree completely.
In general, I think that the drought of supernatural gameplay features throughout this game's life cycle has really been a detriment. With the improved CAS mode, creating supernatural sims that look distinctly inhuman is easier than ever...but the actual releases of supernatural sims have been glacial. This is frustrating to players like me, (who, after the first time trying the CAS demo, immediately thought, "Oh, man! This is going to make *insert favorite supernatural sim here* a BLAST to make when they come out!") because we WANT to see supernatural sims evolve, both gameplay-wise AND aesthetically, just as much as other players want to see family play or building or sim AI evolve with each new game. Waiting for YEARS between supernatural releases has been really frustrating and depressing for me and players like me, probably even more so than object babies for family players or the long wait for advanced build mode tools has been for builders. Then, to see realism players getting so much more content (quantity-wise) than us, while we are slowly drip-fed only occasional supernatural gameplay (2019 was a stand-out year, with a sci-fi mystery roleplay GP, mermaids, and spellcasters all in one year--the fastest roll-out of supernatural content since aliens were introduced in GTW just a few months after ghosts were patched into the base game in 2014-2015), and what we DO get is always in danger of being nerfed or under-developed for the sake of realism players all because the developers refuse to add one little, tiny option to the gameplay options menu and realism players want the whole game to revolve around nothing but normal, slice-of-life scenarios.
I mean, what if the tables were turned? What if TS4 gave us vampires, aliens, ghosts, magic, werewolves, robots, superheroes, plant sims (real ones, not that temporary status effect junk), mad science, zombies, giant mecha, imaginary friends, genies, AI hologram waifus/husbandos, fairies, centaurs, satyrs, elves, dragons, steampunk contraptions, etc., but we were still, five years later, waiting on hot tubs, dishwashers, bowling, slip-n-slides, bootleg pokemon, active careers, after school activities, laundry, restaurants, spas, and vacation spots? What if realism players had had to wait two years a piece between new careers? Realism players would be rioting in the proverbial streets and complaining about how the game is dead because "Our babies are still stuck to the crib and we have to use mods to get things around the house to get dirty anymore because supernatural players complained that stopping their sims training for a few sim minutes to wash a bathtub was breaking their immersion, but those darn weebs are about to get tentacle monsters, kappas, and nine-tailed foxes in the next pack!" And what if we supernatural players responded like, "Dude, it's a game! Who wants to lug a baby around or sit in a hot tub or go to work when you can do all that in REAL LIFE! Yeesh, go outside or watch 99% of all live-action, teen-though-adult film and television if you want boring old normal life. Games are for fantasy!"? Oooh, the fit they'd pitch!! (Don't roll your eyes at me, realism players, ya'll know ya'll's people...)
So, I wouldn't mind if every pack in 2020 is a supernatural-themed pack. Realism players have been getting things that fit well with their playstyle and the stories they want to play out through their gameplay much more frequently, while supernatural players have been desperately grasping at whatever crumbs we can get. To satisfy the realism-slice-of-life crowd, they should just put the fargin' on/off toggles for supernatural stuff in the options already. It'll be six years next year since the game was released, it's time for some more advanced options that DON'T come from a mod that you have to manually update every time the game is patched...
Both were the case in #1 and #3 - can't speak for #2 as my father's potato PC couldn't run it back then. TS3 added the option to manually go to various stores - and I loved that part because it was a way to organically meet other people in the open world - but it was optional.
I admit I'd love at least a simplified system of buying clothes - it'd be something to spend money later on and maybe add some meaning to the career unlock outfits (which would still be 'gifted' free). However, it'd be an issue with initial CAS (you don't get to see the household's money until you get to move-in screen), require rising the starting money (so the sims don't start naked) with Seasons having a major impact on that due to Cold/Hot weather outfits. And, finally, it would require every single piece of CC clothing to be updated for that. Hence I believe it'd be best to leave it for TS5 (if it ever comes) and have it since the start with the game mechanics fully built with that in mind.
I also like wandering the hills.
This is exactly my point - as someone who actually paid attention in science classes and took them at university, I have no patience for fake science. Real scientists get excited when they find conditions that might be compatible with life on a distant planet, or spend their time debunking so-called alien sightings. If I were playing a paranormal career, then yes, aliens would be expected. Scientists? Maybe they could choose between a path that leads them to discover aliens, and one that stays on a more realistic path. And it certainly shouldn't be a consequence of choosing the doctor career. (You can't even get the satellite unless you've played the scientist career to a certain level, unless you use cheats.)
BTW, you can play the scientist career and reach the top without ever following your Sim to work. It's actually quite fun - there are loads of things you can do at home.
Personally, I bought GTW because I wanted random illnesses back in my game. I'm rather disappointed with that part - illness doesn't work as it did in previous games, in which you actually had to do something to avoid having your Sim die, and while your Sim was ill, it affected her ability to do normal things, such as work or school. Instead of a realistic situtation for our Sims to navigate, as in 'life simulator', we get random alien abductions. If they were going to be bundled with a pack, a futuristic one would make more sense.
lol, yeah, this doesn't sound very realistic does it, and it's not very realistic if I don't supply Sims with food they magically eat something they found in their pockets (just appears).
It's not very realistic to see the same Sims at the gym, three days later, either. (Still there). But I guess people are able to suspend their disbelief easier than I am, or there would be more complaints about loading screens as soon as we run up to the property line to knock on a door. And just came into my head, don't even get me started on slot popping, then players claim the game is realistic. Or Sims not even having to walk to a pc to order meds, but then tell me they don't like magic or occults.....
The problem I see there is that they're only something the doctor sim has to identify instead of something that would have a logical/realistic system connected to everyday gameplay as well as traits and skills, instead of being only relevant for a single career. I've described my ideas a few months ago in this thread.
I also like wandering the hills.
I’m not an occult fan. But I think vampires are very well done. I have the pack because it was gifted to me. It doesn’t bother me that Vlad would text me welcoming me, didn’t really bother me when he did visit because it wasn’t a regular thing. The thing where vamps stood outside on the lawn all night was just wierd. I mean bite me already. I tried playing as a vamp once and I did enjoy it. What put off was something unrelated to vampires altogether.
Aliens I can ignore easily enough, I’m not a big fan of alien night and I rarely used the scientist career but I’ve had a few abductions. I’ve had more abductions than vamp break ins.
I don’t think though it’s fair to blame the players. This year has been pretty good for occult count. Strangerville, mermaids, spell casters. Spell casters probably are lame to those who want to play exclusively as a witch or wizard but that’s down to choices made by the powers that be. When I tried spell casters they bored me simply because they didn’t feel unique enough to warrant their own life state.
I think it’s the balance between your game without super naturals and playing with it that needs to be better. Previous games managed this. Sims 4 really struggles. It’s okay to want to have one save with all the supernaturals but in another save not want them there at all. And this is not possible. If I were inclined to want spell casters in my game I would be more inclined to get the pack now they have stopped every sim and their neighbour becoming magical.
I think it’s about balance overall.
@Sk8rblaze if your sim is in the science career, you can build the satellite and turn on no abductions. Or use a cheat to purchase the dish. Don't want to use a cheat, in world view move your sim/family to an empty lot, go into build and place the satellite on the roof, and then move the family back into the house.
Alien abductions only happen on the active lot. In my game they have happened randomly. Usually when I want a sim abducted it doesn't happen. I find it funny & interesting. It really isn't that deep tho and not sure why folks are bothered by it, unless they are very young players (children or tweens).
I agree. It's harder to play medieval times TS4 than the other three. One factor is everyone having a phone. It was hard in TS3 since townies were using their phones autonomously. My own Sims in TS4 whip it out when I don't give them a pc or a TV.
ETA: even in TS2 I can just clone within the game,the NPC/townie maker and can give them the clothes I want them to wear, give the townies the clothes I want them to wear, create my own townies (right in the game) and never have to worry about a spawned Sims wearing modern day clothes. Heck I can even change the townie clothes with OFB if I don't want to spawn the Townie maker and eventually sell them all an outift more fitting to the time period. With a lot less work than I can do this in TS4. I'll end this long soapbox speech with this, TS4 smothers us with modernization, it's not only the lack of occults and or other creature features.
I completely understand, and honestly I would be more drawn to Occults if I could erase some of the modernity too. Obviously modern supernatural stuff is everywhere in the media so there's established canon for them in contemporary times, but I do like the idea of supernaturals existing independent of it and I can't do that either with the way the game is set up. Sometimes I just want to play in a Jane Austen-era or mid-century scenario and have it feel like it makes sense. But I can't because of much of the reasons you listed.
Here's the biggest caveat for me personally. I'm pretty opposed to people sweeping history's more problematic elements under the rug. So you want to play in Colonial America, for instance. Okay, but you'll have to deal with slavery. Which is awful. And can't be swept under the rug so that we pretend that America has always been a shining paragon of fairness. And women can't get jobs unless it's "maid" or "flower-girl" or "cook." But children can and poorer children have to. And you'd need servants, lots of them. Which is pretty unpleasant, given the living conditions of servants.
I think we have a tendency to idealize the past, and I'm not sure how comfortable the Sims team is with including all these brutal elements. And even if you wanted to do "alternate timelines" where we have modern values in a historical context, I'd still say there's some moral grey-ness to rewriting the past. Not that it's flat out wrong, of course, but with certain people in the modern era saying things like "Slavery was a choice", it makes me juuuuust a bit weary of the idea that someone could actually make slavery a choice, even if only for their personal entertainment. Idealizing the past tends to encourage making the same mistakes. Whether we've enjoyed it or not, these past 15 years have been the best, most free time for anyone to be alive.
But then again... balls and carriages and hoop skirts and horseback riding into town ahhhhhhh
Fair points. I should have clarified that I want more historical aesthetics, not necessarily morals or ideology. And I think really this drives home the idea of Sims not having enough personality because I should be able to transport them to another time and they be completely fine, in a sense. Idk I just think the life simulator concept should be more broad than it is and configuring the Sims as individuals is where that starts. But also I don't want to derail this thread! In the same respect, an immersive world for Occults should be established where they can exist without the more realistic elements too. I guess I'm realizing that a lot of the "personality" that devs say Sims can have is tied up in the modern realism aesthetic.
Also 100% agreed. As far as a tool to tell stories goes - which, as I understand it, is what Sims 4 advertises itself as - there are no good stories when there are no interesting characters - regardless of time period or genre.