Forum Announcement, Click Here to Read More From EA_Cade.

Brave move with the new Muslim content. (In a good way)

Comments

  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited September 2019
    Scobre wrote: »

    This is a clear example of people that know nothing about islam religion, yes, maybe a muslim living in America is totally free to remove their hijab, but for Islam countries it's still a mandatory that women wear hijabs.

    Edit: Remember that not everything revolves in America.
    Edit 2: I'm talking about the article not your comment Scobre :smile:
    Oh no worries thank you. Always nice to learn more. It has been really interesting watching movies and shows set in different countries like Islam and Saudi Arabia. My nephew's father is Muslim, so interesting learning about it more. My biggest fear is the hate he will face in school.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • zekrayatzekrayat Posts: 1,855 Member
    Scobre wrote: »

    This is a clear example of people that know nothing about islam religion, yes, maybe a muslim living in America is totally free to remove their hijab, but for Islam countries it's still a mandatory that women wear hijabs.

    Edit: Remember that not everything revolves in America.
    Edit 2: I'm talking about the article not your comment Scobre :smile:

    Okay, I've been avoiding these threads for my own sanity, but I'm a Muslim woman with dual nationality of a Middle Eastern country, and "it's mandatory that women wear hijab" is simply not true for the majority of Muslim countries. I am not trying to get at you, but this is a huge over-simplification of a range of political and social factors which vary from country to country (and often by region within those countries), which I am not going to get into here because it's the Sims forum.

    The article you are commenting on was written by two Muslim women, one of whom is a professor of Islamic law. They are not clear examples of people who know nothing about this topic.
  • CandiGir1CandiGir1 Posts: 64 Member
    This is a fantasy world where the players are essentially gods making decisions small and large for the beings in the societies, towns, and families that we have created/allowed to exist. In our games, things only have the meanings that we each ascribe to them. If you are ok with your sims being able to potentially have sex in a coffin with an evil being that drinks human blood on the daily, but you're not sure if hijabs are appropriate...I don't know what to tell you.
    6qrDi11.png
  • RustyCicuitRustyCicuit Posts: 49 Member
    If developers chose to walk down the path of inclusively, they must represent all and I mean ALL cultures in the world, or they will get questions like: "why is there no insert culture/tradition/religion in the game yet?". In my option, they should steer clear from religious symbols all toughener. Middle east in general has long and rich history and extensive tradition in outfits, so it was an odd choice to add hijab off all things.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited September 2019
    MadameLee wrote: »

    @Scobre if you don't mind me asking, is your sister Muslim/converted to Islam? I wouldn't be too worried about either your nephew or your brother-in-law(?) but more about your sister. It's Muslim women, mostly those who wear the hijab that get most of the hate. I never seen (ie news) Islamophobic people ever attacking (either by words, or by acts) Muslim men.
    Nope, my bloodline is full of immigration and yeah we are not Muslim or Islam, but practice something else. The father doesn't know about my nephew. My brother-in-law that she married is Hispanic and has been the best father for both the boys who come from different fathers. My Canadian friend actually said he would never visit America because of the hate towards Muslims which is why his family lives in Canada now where it is more accepting of Muslims. Yeah national news doesn't really do the best job at sharing stories about religious attacks on people, but it is going on everyday still. But yes with my local news I have sadly against different racial groups including Muslim or anyone who looks different, so I am scared. Even my eldest nephew who is Hispanic has had discrimination shown to him when he was only five at the time. So yes children are equally at risk of hate crimes. But yes my family is very diverse of all different cultures around the world either by marriage or by blood. I am curious if the hijab was renamed to something else it would help things or not or what the solution to the new content would be. Removing content completely should never be a practice for any Sims game, but if Simmers have an idea of a better way to portray that part of that world, I think that ideas should be shared.

    Also thank you @kirkuk. That makes sense that it varies by region just like different states in the United States have different fashion choices. I remember when moving from California to Oregon, I had to dress a lot more conservative and even my sister was sent a turtleneck because of some of her clothing wasn't modest enough.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • Felice_EnellenFelice_Enellen Posts: 102 Member
    Middle east in general has long and rich history and extensive tradition in outfits, so it was an odd choice to add hijab off all things.
    Yes, you really have to wonder why they chose to focus on only these things, when so many exist.
  • MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,748 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    MadameLee wrote: »
    @Scobre if you don't mind me asking, is your sister Muslim/converted to Islam? I wouldn't be too worried about either your nephew or your brother-in-law(?) but more about your sister. It's Muslim women, mostly those who wear the hijab that get most of the hate. I never seen (ie news) Islamophobic people ever attacking (either by words, or by acts) Muslim men.

    Nope, my bloodline is full of immigration and yeah we are not Muslim or Islam, but practice something else. The father doesn't know about my nephew. My brother-in-law that she married is Hispanic and has been the best father for both the boys who come from different fathers. My Canadian friend actually said he would never visit America because of the hate towards Muslims which is why his family lives in Canada now where it is more accepting of Muslims. Yeah national news doesn't really do the best job at sharing stories about religious attacks on people, but it is going on everyday still. But yes with my local news I have sadly against different racial groups including Muslim or anyone who looks different, so I am scared. Even my eldest nephew who is Hispanic has had discrimination shown to him when he was only five at the time. So yes children are equally at risk of hate crimes. But yes my family is very diverse of all different cultures around the world either by marriage or by blood. I am curious if the hijab was renamed to something else it would help things or not or what the solution to the new content would be. Removing content completely should never be a practice for any Sims game, but if Simmers have an idea of a better way to portray that part of that world, I think that ideas should be shared.
    .
    I'm a Canadian... My Mom's sister married a man from Hong Kong. So as a child when I was the maternal grandparents with this sister..when she saw me, my sister or our other cousins (both girls)..we would get red Chinese envelopes that are handed out on Chinese New Year. Due to them and their brothers growing up in South Korea..I have a taste for Asian food of all kind. My Aunt's eldest child, a daughter has a long-term boyfriend who is from the country India. We learned in recently years one-of their (mom's and aunt's) sister-in-laws' ancestors were "Home Children" and also the sister-in-law (another aunt) is related to one of my high school school friends.
    6adMCGP.gif
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited September 2019
    MadameLee wrote: »
    I'm a Canadian... My Mom's sister married a man from Hong Kong. So as a child when I was the maternal grandparents with this sister..when she saw me, my sister or our other cousins (both girls)..we would get red Chinese envelopes that are handed out on Chinese New Year. Due to them and their brothers growing up in South Korea..I have a taste for Asian food of all kind. My Aunt's eldest child, a daughter has a long-term boyfriend who is from the country India. We learned in recently years one-of their (mom's and aunt's) sister-in-laws' ancestors were "Home Children" and also the sister-in-law (another aunt) is related to one of my high school school friends.
    Oh neat you have quite the family history too. My family line came from famous Irish thieves. I have Native American (Iroquois), Irish, Scottish, French, British, Spanish, German, and Norwegian in my bloodline. My nephews and nieces have Portuguese, Mexican, and Saudi Arabian on top of that. I really love Asian food and was trying to learn Mandarin Chinese. That is so neat you found relatives with your high school friends.

    My grandfather illegally immigrated at 17 from Dublin, Ireland and then got caught and had to work on the ship. He ended up becoming a stationary engineer for Capitol Records when the Beetles and Beach Boys were making records there. He was heavily prejudice against African Americans but loved Nat King Cole. My mom's best friend was from Africa and three friends I've known since kindergarten are African American, so we didn't let family prejudice stray our views on how we treat people who are different from us. I am so happy talking to SimGuruKimmi getting afro-textured hairs in the game by sharing CC with her. So I am all for Simmers sharing ideas on how to accurately portray people and places where they grew up or is part of their family history.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Middle east in general has long and rich history and extensive tradition in outfits, so it was an odd choice to add hijab off all things.
    Yes, you really have to wonder why they chose to focus on only these things, when so many exist.
    I would love to hear more ideas on outfits and accessories for Sims to wear if either of you have any.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,748 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    MadameLee wrote: »
    I'm a Canadian... My Mom's sister married a man from Hong Kong. So as a child when I was the maternal grandparents with this sister..when she saw me, my sister or our other cousins (both girls)..we would get red Chinese envelopes that are handed out on Chinese New Year. Due to them and their brothers growing up in South Korea..I have a taste for Asian food of all kind. My Aunt's eldest child, a daughter has a long-term boyfriend who is from the country India. We learned in recently years one-of their (mom's and aunt's) sister-in-laws' ancestors were "Home Children" and also the sister-in-law (another aunt) is related to one of my high school school friends.
    Oh neat you have quite the family history too. My family line came from famous Irish thieves. I have Native American (Iroquois), Irish, Scottish, French, British, Spanish, German, and Norwegian in my bloodline. My nephews and nieces have Portuguese, Mexican, and Saudi Arabian on top of that. I really love Asian food and was trying to learn Mandarin Chinese. That is so neat you found relatives with your high school friends.

    My grandfather illegally immigrated at 17 from Dublin, Ireland and then got caught and had to work on the ship. He ended up becoming a stationary engineer for Capitol Records when the Beetles and Beach Boys were making records there. He was heavily prejudice against African Americans but loved Nat King Cole. My mom's best friend was from Africa and three friends I've known since kindergarten are African American, so we didn't let family prejudice stray our views on how we treat people who are different from us. I am so happy talking to SimGuruKimmi getting afro-textured hairs in the game by sharing CC with her. So I am all for Simmers sharing ideas on how to accurately portray people and places where they grew up or is part of their family history.

    I know my Maternal grandma's ancestors came over during the "Potato famine" ..which reminds me I need to continue the Irish trip journal from last year. (Parents and I have travelled to a ton of different places-Germany is the next destination ). My Paternal grandma's ancestors came to America on the famous Mayflower.
    6adMCGP.gif
  • NikkihNikkih Posts: 1,758 Member
    I personally like the fact they are putting in other cultures into the game , hopefully they add kilts in, different colour of tartan for every clan, would be cool if Scotland got represented for once 😂😂
  • SimaniteSimanite Posts: 4,833 Member
    @Nikkih Never thought of kilts, cool idea! We had one on TS3 store I believe.
  • FlyingPotato659FlyingPotato659 Posts: 1,473 Member
    I don't mind the hijab being added as a clothing. It is just the fact that they said "Muslim Update" that bothers me as they basically added a real life religion into a fictional world.

    Now do we expect a Catholic update? Protestant update? Jewish update? And more religions?
  • NikkihNikkih Posts: 1,758 Member
    I didn't know that lol @Simanite, they maybe will its traditional wear for scottish men when they get married, theres nothing that could be offensive attached to it
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    MadameLee wrote: »

    I know my Maternal grandma's ancestors came over during the "Potato famine" ..which reminds me I need to continue the Irish trip journal from last year. (Parents and I have travelled to a ton of different places-Germany is the next destination ). My Paternal grandma's ancestors came to America on the famous Mayflower.
    That is so cool. I would love to visit Europe one day especially Ireland.

    It's ok @Simanite and yes I agree with you about woman wanting to wear what they want. I'm not upset in the slightest and honestly think this has developed into an interesting discussion. Hopefully Simmers can come up with alternative ideas to hijab. I just don't want have to have something removed without something to replace it with. I would like to have a head covering that both male and female Sims can wear that represent the Middle East well while also respecting their culture.
    I actually looked up the different type of head coverings: https://www.facinghistory.org/civic-dilemmas/brief-history-veil-islam
    Did you know the wedding veil has an origin of "wrapped brides from head to toe to represent the delivery of a modest and untouched maiden" and a way to "hid her away from evil spirits who might want to thwart her happiness" according to this article?: https://www.brides.com/story/wedding-traditions-debunked-the-veil Come to think of it, the Sims 4 doesn't have wedding veils. I remember one of my friends wanted a wedding pack to represent brides of different cultures and would be interesting to see more head dressings with that from all over the world. Anyway quite interesting looking at the origins of clothing.

    I would love kilts in the game. @Nikkih
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • SimaniteSimanite Posts: 4,833 Member
    @Scobre Hugs, sorry for getting heated. You are always a Simmer I respect.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Simanite wrote: »
    @Scobre Hugs, sorry for getting heated. You are always a Simmer I respect.
    Thanks and no worries. I am just not feeling well with a concussion, so just trying to encourage ideas from the community as a whole. I thought that the patch was only affecting one part of the community so it was enlightening to find out others were bothered by it too. I just hope the community comes up with a solution to keep our Middle Eastern Simmers happy because representing them I think is important. Yes I want other cultures represented too and all for inclusion. I hope that the Gurus are encouraged to make more inclusive content for Simmers and just love hearing ideas and learning about different parts of the world.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • Felice_EnellenFelice_Enellen Posts: 102 Member
    edited September 2019
    Simanite wrote: »
    @Nikkih Never thought of kilts, cool idea! We had one on TS3 store I believe.

    Kilts would be awesome! I'm a quarter scottish, I'd love some of this so-called representation.
  • MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,748 Member
    Could we add Hanboks and actually Kimos for cultral stuff?
    6adMCGP.gif
  • Felice_EnellenFelice_Enellen Posts: 102 Member
    edited September 2019
    Scobre wrote: »
    I just don't want have to have something removed without something to replace it with.
    The vast majority of people with negative opinions are not asking to remove the item, only to remove it from involuntary circulation on townies (which is reported to be happening even though the gurus claim it's not supposed to) and not to overtly associate it with a real-world religion.

    A simple "headscarf" could have been added just for the sake of fashion options. Calling it as being inspired by a certain group of a type so controversial that we're not even allowed to name it on the forums, and then randomly applying it to townies without our input, was the bad move here, not the part where they added it to the clothing catalogue.

  • Felice_EnellenFelice_Enellen Posts: 102 Member
    edited September 2019
    MadameLee wrote: »
    Could we add Hanboks and actually Kimos for cultral stuff?

    That would be great, hanbok are cool.

    Also, I would love a yukata option. I wonder if they'll ever do a Japan-inspired pack. We have a few items that are reminiscent of Japanese culture, but mostly in meme-ish ways and not so much serious like a proper kimono, yukata, or furisoda. And a black suit, tie, and briefcase for the poor salarymen. ;)
  • NikkihNikkih Posts: 1,758 Member
    edited September 2019
    We never get represented lol we have the film braveheart and brave but no kilts in the sims 😂😂 @Felice_Enellen , a medieval pack would be cool patch kilts of all colours of clans for that, there has to be all the clan colours for it to be perfect lol
  • Prink34320V2Prink34320V2 Posts: 156 Member
    I think that people that keep saying, against all facts, that the Hijab is a symbol of religion, need to understand that even if it is, in The Sims 4, it is not, because there is no religion in this game, there is only the concept of culture, and the Hijab is very much cultural as many have pointed out already. Perhaps ask a woman who wears a Hijab in her daily life but follows no religion why she wears it?
  • NikkihNikkih Posts: 1,758 Member
    edited September 2019
    I think this discussion is going a rocky way , yes I do hope EA adds abit of all our traditions to the game, not just mine would be boring if it was just mine , what does the sims represents people and what are we people, we all come from different backgrounds , but guess what we are all the same. What I love about sims 4 and my game is that its mixed cultured and guess what theres no in racism, there is no prejudice
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited September 2019
    Scobre wrote: »
    I just don't want have to have something removed without something to replace it with.
    The vast majority of people with negative opinions are not asking to remove the item, only to remove it from involuntary circulation on townies (which is reported to be happening even though the gurus claim it's not supposed to) and not to overtly associate it with a real-world religion.

    A simple "headscarf" could have been added just for the sake of fashion options. Calling it as being inspired by a certain group of a type so controversial that we're not even allowed to name it on the forums, and then randomly applying it to townies without our input, was the bad move here, not the part where they added it to the clothing catalogue.
    Oh the forced townie outfits, yeah that has been a problem with the base game itself. I don't mind an update like that being done. I know it was an issue in the past like with clown outfits. In that aspect yes I could see it as disrespectful to the culture and religion having every townie wearing it. I completely agree it should be a choice on the Simmer. Honestly it is going to be an issue with future updates too whether kilts or something else is added. Believe me the townie thing butchers CC content too. I don't personally thing it is the best designed system and hope something is done to make townie generation more organized. Honestly I kind of miss the days of the Sims 2 before townie generation was a thing and I could design my own Sims and neighborhoods to fill the town rather the game forcing it upon me. Story progression in the Sims has always had an issue even since the Sims 3 days.

    Thank you for sharing your story @Simanite. It was lovely to read and yes I hate how biased news sites can be about world events. I should have you meet a friend of mine on Twitch. I'll dm you about him.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Sign In or Register to comment.
Return to top