But the point is, that for grown ups like myself and many other players, it's a wonderful game, where we can use our imagination and get new tools all the time, some we have to pay for and some we get for free. I have watched my teenage daughter play the game, and she definately didn't have as much fun and didn't even get close to "You rule" the way I do. And for Ch..... sake, how does a positive player even get one word off the chest, before all the negative opinions clutter everything up. Sometimes I consider to leave the forums for good, if it wasn't for the few nice and postive people in here, who always are so helpful when I have a question.
People are having an opinion about the game, some think it has too many childish elements in it. Are they not allowed to feel that way? That's in no way personal, in no way aimed at players who don't feel that way, it's got nothing to do with players, it's got to do with a game. Calling that opinion hilarious in fact is personal, or stating that only 'those who have enough fantasy and imagination to have a blast finding new challenges all the time' get the game. By that you make it a player's problem, instead of a game's problem. And why leave the forums over a complaint posted in the Feedback section with a very clear and unequivocal title. Why not just leave this section if discussions like this feel like a smack in your face? This is feedback, we're giving feedback. Me personally, I genuinely dislike the fact my sims all behave like little children all the time. I simply do.
So true, for some reason a lot of the negativity surrounding this game becomes about the player when it is all subjective opinion and ultimately is all about the game.
Personally I dislike the angry poop a lot. I don't like toilet humor like that at all. Conversely I find the toilet walk slightly amusing probably because I very rarely see it in my game as I tend to micro manage and keep my sims needs up constantly.
I don't think that TS4 is exactly a childs game but to be quite honest I am confused about who the target audience is... it's missed the mark for kids, it seems to have missed the mark mostly for the long time simmers... idk. The only thing that is important to me is that it is progressively missing the mark for me!
I'm a girl who likes to play with boys, what can I say...
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
But the point is, that for grown ups like myself and many other players, it's a wonderful game, where we can use our imagination and get new tools all the time, some we have to pay for and some we get for free. I have watched my teenage daughter play the game, and she definately didn't have as much fun and didn't even get close to "You rule" the way I do. And for Ch..... sake, how does a positive player even get one word off the chest, before all the negative opinions clutter everything up. Sometimes I consider to leave the forums for good, if it wasn't for the few nice and postive people in here, who always are so helpful when I have a question.
Why it is best to speak for oneself. I am a grown up too and have mixed feelings about the game. I used to like the game, but opinions change. I don't think I ever loved it I admit. Being constantly told by others that they are playing the game wrong and lack imagination and that the game will reach its potential if you drop x amount more dollars comes off as insulting. It gets too personal that way like how the cray cray word gets thrown around. I know that you don't want to be called a child for liking the game, but this thread isn't even about that. It is about the game itself.
Just because the Sims 4 feels like an E rated game to me is not a reflection on the player. MySims was E rated too and adults enjoyed it as well. Comparing the Sims 4 to other games in the market as far as similar ratings, the Sims 4 is just not hitting the teen rated mark. Emotions between Sims have been toned down and there are no consequences for actions like there have in previous iterations. It has more to do with the ESRB rating. There are no sides, each Simmer is their own person and accountable for themselves. You are free to state your opinion, but the truth is not everyone will agree with it. Part of being in a community is accepting that we are all different like how your daughter plays differently than you. If I want the Sims 4 to feel like a teen rated game, then it must reflect it by bringing in some of the darker and romantic elements that the other games had. Do they need to be exactly the same animations? No, but the Sims 4 needs that depth to widen the imagination to peak the interest of more players. I mean wouldn't you want the game to be fun for your daughter one day? What would make the game appeal to her? Being on the fence, I constantly have to read feedback of both the pros and cons of the game and try to summarize it best I can to the Gurus. Find out what is working and what isn't for the game. I just know that I do not want the Sims 4 to repeat the Sims 3 mistake of alienating play styles again. Please feel free to state what you like about the game. We need pros and cons stated in as civil as a matter possible. Might be a total waste of time, but at least I'm around for the adventure of getting to know the community while an iteration is developed for the first time. I didn't allow myself to for the other three games. I guess being apart of forums, you got to find your comfort zone, find a nice thread to be an oasis on and escape to there when you need a break. True if it wasn't for some nice people I met on forums too, I wouldn't still be on them either.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
That's so hilarious! And how does "using your imagination" fit with "child's game"?
Ever heard of lego?
Point? Sure, plenty of child's games use imagination -- but imagination isn't limited to just children. Without imagination there would never be another work of fiction, from Harry Potter to the latest romance. Without imagination there wouldn't be bridges designed, ships built or buildings crafted. Without imagination there wouldn't be any new foods or recipes, no "experimental cuisine" restaurants. Someone had to imagine that stuff, then use skills to make them work. It feels in a lot of these posts that people are equating imagination with children, and we're supposed to move on from that as we get older. Well, plum that.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
The developers should prioritize letting us come up with something like experimental cuisine. They should be enabling us to be the developers of our Sims' world. It should never be the other way around. That's the way the game has always been; player in charge. With TS4, that is lost, ironically with its "You Rule" tagline.
I think you misunderstood what the other posters were trying to say. It's not so much that the game requires imagination, it's that it's anti-imagination, and requires a lot of pretending because of its ineffectiveness as a tool for the creative mind.
That's so hilarious! And how does "using your imagination" fit with "child's game"?
Ever heard of lego?
Point? Sure, plenty of child's games use imagination -- but imagination isn't limited to just children. Without imagination there would never be another work of fiction, from Harry Potter to the latest romance. Without imagination there wouldn't be bridges designed, ships built or buildings crafted. Without imagination there wouldn't be any new foods or recipes, no "experimental cuisine" restaurants. Someone had to imagine that stuff, then use skills to make them work. It feels in a lot of these posts that people are equating imagination with children, and we're supposed to move on from that as we get older. Well, plum that.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
The developers should prioritize letting us come up with something like experimental cuisine. They should be enabling us to be the developers of our Sims' world. It should never be the other way around. That's the way the game has always been; player in charge. With TS4, that is lost, ironically with its "You Rule" tagline.
I think you misunderstood what the other posters were trying to say. It's not so much that the game requires imagination, it's that it's anti-imagination, and requires a lot of pretending because of its ineffectiveness as a tool for the creative mind.
Fabulous post.
I'm a girl who likes to play with boys, what can I say...
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
That's so hilarious! And how does "using your imagination" fit with "child's game"?
Ever heard of lego?
Point? Sure, plenty of child's games use imagination -- but imagination isn't limited to just children. Without imagination there would never be another work of fiction, from Harry Potter to the latest romance. Without imagination there wouldn't be bridges designed, ships built or buildings crafted. Without imagination there wouldn't be any new foods or recipes, no "experimental cuisine" restaurants. Someone had to imagine that stuff, then use skills to make them work. It feels in a lot of these posts that people are equating imagination with children, and we're supposed to move on from that as we get older. Well, plum that.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
The developers should prioritize letting us come up with something like experimental cuisine. They should be enabling us to be the developers of our Sims' world. It should never be the other way around. That's the way the game has always been; player in charge. With TS4, that is lost, ironically with its "You Rule" tagline.
I think you misunderstood what the other posters were trying to say. It's not so much that the game requires imagination, it's that it's anti-imagination, and requires a lot of pretending because of its ineffectiveness as a tool for the creative mind.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
The developers should prioritize letting us come up with something like experimental cuisine. They should be enabling us to be the developers of our Sims' world. It should never be the other way around. That's the way the game has always been; player in charge. With TS4, that is lost, ironically with its "You Rule" tagline.
I think you misunderstood what the other posters were trying to say. It's not so much that the game requires imagination, it's that it's anti-imagination, and requires a lot of pretending because of its ineffectiveness as a tool for the creative mind.
Exactly. The Sims 4 simply doesn't allow the tools to let our imagination soar to the sky. It has created a tiny dome of limited imagination.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
That's so hilarious! And how does "using your imagination" fit with "child's game"?
Ever heard of lego?
Point? Sure, plenty of child's games use imagination -- but imagination isn't limited to just children. Without imagination there would never be another work of fiction, from Harry Potter to the latest romance. Without imagination there wouldn't be bridges designed, ships built or buildings crafted. Without imagination there wouldn't be any new foods or recipes, no "experimental cuisine" restaurants. Someone had to imagine that stuff, then use skills to make them work. It feels in a lot of these posts that people are equating imagination with children, and we're supposed to move on from that as we get older. Well, plum that.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
The developers should prioritize letting us come up with something like experimental cuisine. They should be enabling us to be the developers of our Sims' world. It should never be the other way around. That's the way the game has always been; player in charge. With TS4, that is lost, ironically with its "You Rule" tagline.
I think you misunderstood what the other posters were trying to say. It's not so much that the game requires imagination, it's that it's anti-imagination, and requires a lot of pretending because of its ineffectiveness as a tool for the creative mind.
I was going to say that, but thankfully you have spared everyone here from my crooked english. That's it. But just to add some things:
A game's supposed to create an illusion, either by creating a setting and a story (like many RPGs) or by offering as many tools as possible (in the case o sandbox-simulation games).
Imagination should not be required to play de game, just to create within that game.
If imagination was the main aspect, then we would all be playing with real dolls on real dollhouses, where we can pretend everything is real. Nope. We want virtual dolls who actually respond and react to their surroundings and the other virtual dolls. We do not want to be hitting the walls of illusion all the time, because when we do that, then we have to pretend. We want to do this the least possible.
Some people won't see this "wall of illusion" all the time because their playstyle don't get to the boundaries of what the gameplay offer. Some people don't mind some of the walls. Other people, on the other hand, because of the way they play, they see through the facade all the time. I'm one of this players, as many other here are. So let's just stop with this "imagination" argument that pops here from time to time, this has nothing to do with imagination, rather how much the immersion of the game suits your playstyle.
That's so hilarious! And how does "using your imagination" fit with "child's game"?
Ever heard of lego?
Point? Sure, plenty of child's games use imagination -- but imagination isn't limited to just children. Without imagination there would never be another work of fiction, from Harry Potter to the latest romance. Without imagination there wouldn't be bridges designed, ships built or buildings crafted. Without imagination there wouldn't be any new foods or recipes, no "experimental cuisine" restaurants. Someone had to imagine that stuff, then use skills to make them work. It feels in a lot of these posts that people are equating imagination with children, and we're supposed to move on from that as we get older. Well, plum that.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
The developers should prioritize letting us come up with something like experimental cuisine. They should be enabling us to be the developers of our Sims' world. It should never be the other way around. That's the way the game has always been; player in charge. With TS4, that is lost, ironically with its "You Rule" tagline.
I think you misunderstood what the other posters were trying to say. It's not so much that the game requires imagination, it's that it's anti-imagination, and requires a lot of pretending because of its ineffectiveness as a tool for the creative mind.
I was going to say that, but thankfully you have spared everyone here from my crooked english. That's it. But just to add some things:
A game's supposed to create an illusion, either by creating a setting and a story (like many RPGs) or by offering as many tools as possible (in the case o sandbox-simulation games).
Imagination should not be required to play de game, just to create within that game.
If imagination was the main aspect, then we would all be playing with real dolls on real dollhouses, where we can pretend everything is real. Nope. We want virtual dolls who actually respond and react to their surroundings and the other virtual dolls. We do not want to be hitting the walls of illusion all the time, because when we do that, then we have to pretend. We want to do this the least possible.
Some people won't see this "wall of illusion" all the time because their playstyle don't get to the boundaries of what the gameplay offer. Some people don't mind some of the walls. Other people, on the other hand, because of the way they play, they see through the facade all the time. I'm one of this players, as many other here are. So let's just stop with this "imagination" argument that pops here from time to time, this has nothing to do with imagination, rather how much the immersion of the game suits your playstyle.
I really hope @SimGuruDrake reads these two posts, because it really hits the nail on the head. Yes it is exactly that. The Sims 4 has immersion for some Simmers, but not for everyone and big factor of reason why is based on playstyle. The Sims 4 works for some playstyles but not for others. The Sims 3 had a bit of this issue too with rotational gameplay not being really possible without the help of mods. The Sims 4 also needs a similar mod to make rotational gameplay work right again. Maybe instead of Maxis trying to change the player to fit their game, they should make the game appeal to the player. It is never going to work to force a Simmer to change their playstyle to fit the game. There are personal reasons and life experiences of why Simmers play the way they do. To ask them to change their playstyle is asking them to change themselves, which is the totally opposite of what EA tries to promote well by being accepting towards people of all sorts. It is like judging someone that is different. It never works out well.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Calling that opinion hilarious in fact is personal, or stating that only 'those who have enough fantasy and imagination to have a blast finding new challenges all the time' get the game. By that you make it a player's problem, instead of a game's problem. And why leave the forums over a complaint posted in the Feedback section with a very clear and unequivocal title. Why not just leave this section if discussions like this feel like a smack in your face? This is feedback, we're giving feedback. Me personally, I genuinely dislike the fact my sims all behave like little children all the time. I simply do.
Exactly.
I hear a lot of complaints on here that people who like TS4 feel like they have to defend themselves, while no one's asked them to do so. Obviously, if they like it, that's a good thing. We're not blaming them, we're blaming the game for making us feel limited in the way we're allowed to play it. I don't mind using imagination, it's not like you didn't need to do that in TS2 or TS3 (or for that matter even TS1) every now & then, because obviously the sims themselves do not feel or think anything at all, ever.
It's weird that saying that makes some people feel so offended, when it's not a judgment on how they play, but saying that we're just "not playing the game right" or lack imagination, well that is a judgment. If there's one thing I never lacked (to my own detriment even) it's imagination. But to me it feels that regardless of what I would like to imagine in my story, all my sims still end up happy and childish. One really stupid example, for instance, is "curfew". It bothers me so much that my teenagers (and even children) can skip school, go to the club, come home at midnight and noooooooo one cares. There are no consequences. And in this one instance, I can't even "imagine" them because I cannot even force them through interactions. That's just plain annoying. And you can't blame us for not enjoying that (and thousands of other examples). If we didn't like it and didn't care, we wouldn't put so much effort into explaining it at all.
Why would we?
It's because we care, because many of us have grown up with this series, that we're giving feedback. And giving it again. And again, and again, and again, hoping that someone will listen. So that we too may one day enjoy TS4 as much as the all the previous games. There's nothing wrong with that. And it certainly has nothing to do with us playing the game wrong.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
I just wanted to quote this separately and say: thank you!
But the point is, that for grown ups like myself and many other players, it's a wonderful game, where we can use our imagination and get new tools all the time, some we have to pay for and some we get for free. I have watched my teenage daughter play the game, and she definately didn't have as much fun and didn't even get close to "You rule" the way I do. And for Ch..... sake, how does a positive player even get one word off the chest, before all the negative opinions clutter everything up. Sometimes I consider to leave the forums for good, if it wasn't for the few nice and postive people in here, who always are so helpful when I have a question.
People are having an opinion about the game, some think it has too many childish elements in it. Are they not allowed to feel that way? That's in no way personal, in no way aimed at players who don't feel that way, it's got nothing to do with players, it's got to do with a game. Calling that opinion hilarious in fact is personal, or stating that only 'those who have enough fantasy and imagination to have a blast finding new challenges all the time' get the game. By that you make it a player's problem, instead of a game's problem. And why leave the forums over a complaint posted in the Feedback section with a very clear and unequivocal title. Why not just leave this section if discussions like this feel like a smack in your face? This is feedback, we're giving feedback. Me personally, I genuinely dislike the fact my sims all behave like little children all the time. I simply do.
So true, for some reason a lot of the negativity surrounding this game becomes about the player when it is all subjective opinion and ultimately is all about the game.
Personally I dislike the angry poop a lot. I don't like toilet humor like that at all. Conversely I find the toilet walk slightly amusing probably because I very rarely see it in my game as I tend to micro manage and keep my sims needs up constantly.
I don't think that TS4 is exactly a childs game but to be quite honest I am confused about who the target audience is... it's missed the mark for kids, it seems to have missed the mark mostly for the long time simmers... idk. The only thing that is important to me is that it is progressively missing the mark for me!
But the point is, that for grown ups like myself and many other players, it's a wonderful game, where we can use our imagination and get new tools all the time, some we have to pay for and some we get for free. I have watched my teenage daughter play the game, and she definately didn't have as much fun and didn't even get close to "You rule" the way I do. And for Ch..... sake, how does a positive player even get one word off the chest, before all the negative opinions clutter everything up. Sometimes I consider to leave the forums for good, if it wasn't for the few nice and postive people in here, who always are so helpful when I have a question.
People are having an opinion about the game, some think it has too many childish elements in it. Are they not allowed to feel that way? That's in no way personal, in no way aimed at players who don't feel that way, it's got nothing to do with players, it's got to do with a game. Calling that opinion hilarious in fact is personal, or stating that only 'those who have enough fantasy and imagination to have a blast finding new challenges all the time' get the game. By that you make it a player's problem, instead of a game's problem. And why leave the forums over a complaint posted in the Feedback section with a very clear and unequivocal title. Why not just leave this section if discussions like this feel like a smack in your face? This is feedback, we're giving feedback. Me personally, I genuinely dislike the fact my sims all behave like little children all the time. I simply do.
So true, for some reason a lot of the negativity surrounding this game becomes about the player when it is all subjective opinion and ultimately is all about the game.
Personally I dislike the angry poop a lot. I don't like toilet humor like that at all. Conversely I find the toilet walk slightly amusing probably because I very rarely see it in my game as I tend to micro manage and keep my sims needs up constantly.
I don't think that TS4 is exactly a childs game but to be quite honest I am confused about who the target audience is... it's missed the mark for kids, it seems to have missed the mark mostly for the long time simmers... idk. The only thing that is important to me is that it is progressively missing the mark for me!
Yes, exactly that. Because apart from the childish behaviour, woohoo in bed looks way more steamy in 4 than it does in 3, and the fact they can pull each other into bushes isn't exactly child stuff either So I must admit there's an element of confusion for me too in this respect.
That's so hilarious! And how does "using your imagination" fit with "child's game"?
Ever heard of lego?
Point? Sure, plenty of child's games use imagination -- but imagination isn't limited to just children. Without imagination there would never be another work of fiction, from Harry Potter to the latest romance. Without imagination there wouldn't be bridges designed, ships built or buildings crafted. Without imagination there wouldn't be any new foods or recipes, no "experimental cuisine" restaurants. Someone had to imagine that stuff, then use skills to make them work. It feels in a lot of these posts that people are equating imagination with children, and we're supposed to move on from that as we get older. Well, plum that.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
The developers should prioritize letting us come up with something like experimental cuisine. They should be enabling us to be the developers of our Sims' world. It should never be the other way around. That's the way the game has always been; player in charge. With TS4, that is lost, ironically with its "You Rule" tagline.
I think you misunderstood what the other posters were trying to say. It's not so much that the game requires imagination, it's that it's anti-imagination, and requires a lot of pretending because of its ineffectiveness as a tool for the creative mind.
That's so hilarious! And how does "using your imagination" fit with "child's game"?
Ever heard of lego?
Point? Sure, plenty of child's games use imagination -- but imagination isn't limited to just children. Without imagination there would never be another work of fiction, from Harry Potter to the latest romance. Without imagination there wouldn't be bridges designed, ships built or buildings crafted. Without imagination there wouldn't be any new foods or recipes, no "experimental cuisine" restaurants. Someone had to imagine that stuff, then use skills to make them work. It feels in a lot of these posts that people are equating imagination with children, and we're supposed to move on from that as we get older. Well, plum that.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
The developers should prioritize letting us come up with something like experimental cuisine. They should be enabling us to be the developers of our Sims' world. It should never be the other way around. That's the way the game has always been; player in charge. With TS4, that is lost, ironically with its "You Rule" tagline.
I think you misunderstood what the other posters were trying to say. It's not so much that the game requires imagination, it's that it's anti-imagination, and requires a lot of pretending because of its ineffectiveness as a tool for the creative mind.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
I've always found past sims games easy on the imagination. Because there was plenty in them to fuel that. Even in early trailers before release I remember looking and thinking "Wow, when I get the game I'm going to do "this, this and this". Even if game mechanics didn't specifically allow for it. Because, imagination. The "trigger" for lack of a better word, was there.
From looking at Sims 4 from its first trailer to now, and LP's and what not, I don't recall ever once feeling enthused like that. The game just seems so lacklustre to me that it doesn't set off that "spark". Sometimes, seeing those awful fake smiles, the only thing I ever imagined was that sims themselves were so appalled by their environment, that they were trying hard to cover it up with silly false smiling.
LOL @Pary. I think I imagine that Sims in the Sims 4 do real smiles when they get culled out of the Sims 4 and make their way happily towards the earlier iterations. Like yes, no more Stepford land, we are free! We get our memories and relationships back and romantic relations again. We get our toddlers children again. Ok maybe this "imagination" isn't so bad after all. I can imagine a better future for Sims away from the Sims 4.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Calling that opinion hilarious in fact is personal, or stating that only 'those who have enough fantasy and imagination to have a blast finding new challenges all the time' get the game. By that you make it a player's problem, instead of a game's problem. And why leave the forums over a complaint posted in the Feedback section with a very clear and unequivocal title. Why not just leave this section if discussions like this feel like a smack in your face? This is feedback, we're giving feedback. Me personally, I genuinely dislike the fact my sims all behave like little children all the time. I simply do.
Exactly.
I hear a lot of complaints on here that people who like TS4 feel like they have to defend themselves, while no one's asked them to do so. Obviously, if they like it, that's a good thing. We're not blaming them, we're blaming the game for making us feel limited in the way we're allowed to play it. I don't mind using imagination, it's not like you didn't need to do that in TS2 or TS3 (or for that matter even TS1) every now & then, because obviously the sims themselves do not feel or think anything at all, ever.
It's weird that saying that makes some people feel so offended, when it's not a judgment on how they play, but saying that we're just "not playing the game right" or lack imagination, well that is a judgment. If there's one thing I never lacked (to my own detriment even) it's imagination. But to me it feels that regardless of what I would like to imagine in my story, all my sims still end up happy and childish. One really plum example, for instance, is "curfew". It bothers me so much that my teenagers (and even children) can skip school, go to the club, come home at midnight and noooooooo one cares. There are no consequences. And in this one instance, I can't even "imagine" them because I cannot even force them through interactions. That's just plain annoying. And you can't blame us for not enjoying that (and thousands of other examples). If we didn't like it and didn't care, we wouldn't put so much effort into explaining it at all.
Why would we?
It's because we care, because many of us have grown up with this series, that we're giving feedback. And giving it again. And again, and again, and again, hoping that someone will listen. So that we too may one day enjoy TS4 as much as the all the previous games. There's nothing wrong with that. And it certainly has nothing to do with us playing the game wrong.
THIS!
"Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
I hear a lot of complaints on here that people who like TS4 feel like they have to defend themselves, while no one's asked them to do so. Obviously, if they like it, that's a good thing. We're not blaming them, we're blaming the game for making us feel limited in the way we're allowed to play it. I don't mind using imagination, it's not like you didn't need to do that in TS2 or TS3 (or for that matter even TS1) every now & then, because obviously the sims themselves do not feel or think anything at all, ever.
It's weird that saying that makes some people feel so offended, when it's not a judgment on how they play, but saying that we're just "not playing the game right" or lack imagination, well that is a judgment.
There are quite a few people here that I've seen take offense because they view any critique of the game as personal criticism, alongside the people who always seem to feel offended on behalf of others
It's really very silly.
Unless someone specifically points the finger at people personally, then any discussion about the game should simply be taken at face value - that it's about the game and not people.
I don't play TS4, nor do I have it. But I care about the franchise because I love the games, and its helped me through some really tough times. Seeing it reduced to what looks like, in my opinion, a horrible facebook social media game is hard.
I have little to no faith in EA to improve it, I think those days are past, but there is just some little thing somewhere in me that just doesn't want to let go.
Thankfully, I have past iterations to play and love, but I feel for the people who want TS4 to be a better game because they like some of it but are sad about other bits. Most of the time, I feel so saddened by what The Sims has been reduced to, that I can't ever really find much, if anything, nice to say about it, and it shows.
I remember the Sims team saying they wanted The Sims 4 to be "funnier"-I'm guessing the seemingly juvenile features of the game are their attempt at that. As a result, this version seems to be a slightly awkward combination of things that are more adult-like and things that are immature.
This, I agree. I know that a lot of people complained about what they felt was a lack of humor and charm in TS3 and I guess they tried to address that, but the so-called humor in TS4 is missing the mark with me too (as well as many other aspects of the game).
I've also said many times that it's as if the game has a split personality. Infantile attempts at humor on one hand, but on the other the developers give away assets in exchange for woohoo (anyone who was around for the infamous "woohoo weekend" will understand what I'm saying!).
That's so hilarious! And how does "using your imagination" fit with "child's game"?
Ever heard of lego?
Point? Sure, plenty of child's games use imagination -- but imagination isn't limited to just children. Without imagination there would never be another work of fiction, from Harry Potter to the latest romance. Without imagination there wouldn't be bridges designed, ships built or buildings crafted. Without imagination there wouldn't be any new foods or recipes, no "experimental cuisine" restaurants. Someone had to imagine that stuff, then use skills to make them work. It feels in a lot of these posts that people are equating imagination with children, and we're supposed to move on from that as we get older. Well, plum that.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
The developers should prioritize letting us come up with something like experimental cuisine. They should be enabling us to be the developers of our Sims' world. It should never be the other way around. That's the way the game has always been; player in charge. With TS4, that is lost, ironically with its "You Rule" tagline.
I think you misunderstood what the other posters were trying to say. It's not so much that the game requires imagination, it's that it's anti-imagination, and requires a lot of pretending because of its ineffectiveness as a tool for the creative mind.
I was going to say that, but thankfully you have spared everyone here from my crooked english. That's it. But just to add some things:
A game's supposed to create an illusion, either by creating a setting and a story (like many RPGs) or by offering as many tools as possible (in the case o sandbox-simulation games).
Imagination should not be required to play de game, just to create within that game.
If imagination was the main aspect, then we would all be playing with real dolls on real dollhouses, where we can pretend everything is real. Nope. We want virtual dolls who actually respond and react to their surroundings and the other virtual dolls. We do not want to be hitting the walls of illusion all the time, because when we do that, then we have to pretend. We want to do this the least possible.
Some people won't see this "wall of illusion" all the time because their playstyle don't get to the boundaries of what the gameplay offer. Some people don't mind some of the walls. Other people, on the other hand, because of the way they play, they see through the facade all the time. I'm one of this players, as many other here are. So let's just stop with this "imagination" argument that pops here from time to time, this has nothing to do with imagination, rather how much the immersion of the game suits your playstyle.
I know this is redundant since many have already commented but I just have to chime in and say that you and Sk8rblaze both are spot on as far as I'm concerned in your summaries. I'm also one of those players who cannot play TS4 because it constantly breaks my immersion. Everything from the cartoon, plastic environment, to the toon-like sims with their over-exaggerated expressions, to the lack of creative possibilities, the simplistic programming, to so many things not even actually being simulated anymore (transportation, many NPC's, all life stages, a neighborhood feel, sims with unique personalities, etc.) just ruin the game for me.
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
Another area where TS4 is too childish: The Mischief skill, and the "criminal" career (and the redundant "villain" path of the ain't-we-so-exciting superspy career) is mostly lame and harmless pranks. Were the Child Skills not such massive time-sinks and roadblocks, the Mischief skill stuff as is would be cute for child Sims. It's cringeworthy when hip young twentysomethings, the group Maxis is so aggressively targeting, are doing this stuff.
As for the look, TS4 Sims look good in neutral expression. It's the grins and grimaces that make me want to smack them.
Yeah, I thought mischief skill was a really duh thing to add.
Since The Sims series has always avoided some very dark understones, being a criminal was really something just for an unseen career - and left at that. But with the addition of tasks, they have to choose the evilest thing to do in the game for the criminals, which is.. some childish pranks. Hmpf.
I don't get why even have the evil trait (that goes to TS3 also, btw) if the game has nothing really evil to do in. I mean, I'm not expecting GTA levels of evilness, but pranks are not evil. And having an evil laugh is not really that evil too.
I prefered having grumpy sims like in The Sims 2, because the most grumpy ones were really a pain to socialize with. They hated losing in games, would never accept a compliment and would consistently be unpleasent all the time during a conversation. They would also autonomously be mean to other sims. I know that is not "evil", but it really felt like those sims were a bunch of jerks, and they felt way more unpleasent then all the evil sims I've ever had on The Sims 4.
Is there any reason too , nobody is arguing . Or making a fuss . Infact everyone seems to be the most respectful here . Most of the comments seem to be on topic, so the thread isn't derail in anyway .
Comments
So true, for some reason a lot of the negativity surrounding this game becomes about the player when it is all subjective opinion and ultimately is all about the game.
Personally I dislike the angry poop a lot. I don't like toilet humor like that at all. Conversely I find the toilet walk slightly amusing probably because I very rarely see it in my game as I tend to micro manage and keep my sims needs up constantly.
I don't think that TS4 is exactly a childs game but to be quite honest I am confused about who the target audience is... it's missed the mark for kids, it seems to have missed the mark mostly for the long time simmers... idk. The only thing that is important to me is that it is progressively missing the mark for me!
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
Just because the Sims 4 feels like an E rated game to me is not a reflection on the player. MySims was E rated too and adults enjoyed it as well. Comparing the Sims 4 to other games in the market as far as similar ratings, the Sims 4 is just not hitting the teen rated mark. Emotions between Sims have been toned down and there are no consequences for actions like there have in previous iterations. It has more to do with the ESRB rating. There are no sides, each Simmer is their own person and accountable for themselves. You are free to state your opinion, but the truth is not everyone will agree with it. Part of being in a community is accepting that we are all different like how your daughter plays differently than you. If I want the Sims 4 to feel like a teen rated game, then it must reflect it by bringing in some of the darker and romantic elements that the other games had. Do they need to be exactly the same animations? No, but the Sims 4 needs that depth to widen the imagination to peak the interest of more players. I mean wouldn't you want the game to be fun for your daughter one day? What would make the game appeal to her? Being on the fence, I constantly have to read feedback of both the pros and cons of the game and try to summarize it best I can to the Gurus. Find out what is working and what isn't for the game. I just know that I do not want the Sims 4 to repeat the Sims 3 mistake of alienating play styles again. Please feel free to state what you like about the game. We need pros and cons stated in as civil as a matter possible. Might be a total waste of time, but at least I'm around for the adventure of getting to know the community while an iteration is developed for the first time. I didn't allow myself to for the other three games. I guess being apart of forums, you got to find your comfort zone, find a nice thread to be an oasis on and escape to there when you need a break. True if it wasn't for some nice people I met on forums too, I wouldn't still be on them either.
Each of those works was created with a tool, in their case, pen and paper. The Sims, for many people, is supposed to be that tool -- our very own pen and paper -- which we utilize to bring our imagination to life. With The Sims 4, however, our imagination simply does not come into fruition because our tool is inefficient.
The developers should prioritize letting us come up with something like experimental cuisine. They should be enabling us to be the developers of our Sims' world. It should never be the other way around. That's the way the game has always been; player in charge. With TS4, that is lost, ironically with its "You Rule" tagline.
I think you misunderstood what the other posters were trying to say. It's not so much that the game requires imagination, it's that it's anti-imagination, and requires a lot of pretending because of its ineffectiveness as a tool for the creative mind.
Fabulous post.
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
Thank you.
I was going to say that, but thankfully you have spared everyone here from my crooked english. That's it. But just to add some things:
A game's supposed to create an illusion, either by creating a setting and a story (like many RPGs) or by offering as many tools as possible (in the case o sandbox-simulation games).
Imagination should not be required to play de game, just to create within that game.
If imagination was the main aspect, then we would all be playing with real dolls on real dollhouses, where we can pretend everything is real. Nope. We want virtual dolls who actually respond and react to their surroundings and the other virtual dolls. We do not want to be hitting the walls of illusion all the time, because when we do that, then we have to pretend. We want to do this the least possible.
Some people won't see this "wall of illusion" all the time because their playstyle don't get to the boundaries of what the gameplay offer. Some people don't mind some of the walls. Other people, on the other hand, because of the way they play, they see through the facade all the time. I'm one of this players, as many other here are. So let's just stop with this "imagination" argument that pops here from time to time, this has nothing to do with imagination, rather how much the immersion of the game suits your playstyle.
I really hope @SimGuruDrake reads these two posts, because it really hits the nail on the head. Yes it is exactly that. The Sims 4 has immersion for some Simmers, but not for everyone and big factor of reason why is based on playstyle. The Sims 4 works for some playstyles but not for others. The Sims 3 had a bit of this issue too with rotational gameplay not being really possible without the help of mods. The Sims 4 also needs a similar mod to make rotational gameplay work right again. Maybe instead of Maxis trying to change the player to fit their game, they should make the game appeal to the player. It is never going to work to force a Simmer to change their playstyle to fit the game. There are personal reasons and life experiences of why Simmers play the way they do. To ask them to change their playstyle is asking them to change themselves, which is the totally opposite of what EA tries to promote well by being accepting towards people of all sorts. It is like judging someone that is different. It never works out well.
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1923-2016 mamie
Exactly.
I hear a lot of complaints on here that people who like TS4 feel like they have to defend themselves, while no one's asked them to do so. Obviously, if they like it, that's a good thing. We're not blaming them, we're blaming the game for making us feel limited in the way we're allowed to play it. I don't mind using imagination, it's not like you didn't need to do that in TS2 or TS3 (or for that matter even TS1) every now & then, because obviously the sims themselves do not feel or think anything at all, ever.
It's weird that saying that makes some people feel so offended, when it's not a judgment on how they play, but saying that we're just "not playing the game right" or lack imagination, well that is a judgment. If there's one thing I never lacked (to my own detriment even) it's imagination. But to me it feels that regardless of what I would like to imagine in my story, all my sims still end up happy and childish. One really stupid example, for instance, is "curfew". It bothers me so much that my teenagers (and even children) can skip school, go to the club, come home at midnight and noooooooo one cares. There are no consequences. And in this one instance, I can't even "imagine" them because I cannot even force them through interactions. That's just plain annoying. And you can't blame us for not enjoying that (and thousands of other examples). If we didn't like it and didn't care, we wouldn't put so much effort into explaining it at all.
Why would we?
It's because we care, because many of us have grown up with this series, that we're giving feedback. And giving it again. And again, and again, and again, hoping that someone will listen. So that we too may one day enjoy TS4 as much as the all the previous games. There's nothing wrong with that. And it certainly has nothing to do with us playing the game wrong.
I just wanted to quote this separately and say: thank you!
I agree 100%.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
I've always found past sims games easy on the imagination. Because there was plenty in them to fuel that. Even in early trailers before release I remember looking and thinking "Wow, when I get the game I'm going to do "this, this and this". Even if game mechanics didn't specifically allow for it. Because, imagination. The "trigger" for lack of a better word, was there.
From looking at Sims 4 from its first trailer to now, and LP's and what not, I don't recall ever once feeling enthused like that. The game just seems so lacklustre to me that it doesn't set off that "spark". Sometimes, seeing those awful fake smiles, the only thing I ever imagined was that sims themselves were so appalled by their environment, that they were trying hard to cover it up with silly false smiling.
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Devolution of Sims - a once customisable open world sandbox which has become a DLC Party catalog in a shoebox
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THIS!
There are quite a few people here that I've seen take offense because they view any critique of the game as personal criticism, alongside the people who always seem to feel offended on behalf of others
It's really very silly.
Unless someone specifically points the finger at people personally, then any discussion about the game should simply be taken at face value - that it's about the game and not people.
I don't play TS4, nor do I have it. But I care about the franchise because I love the games, and its helped me through some really tough times. Seeing it reduced to what looks like, in my opinion, a horrible facebook social media game is hard.
I have little to no faith in EA to improve it, I think those days are past, but there is just some little thing somewhere in me that just doesn't want to let go.
Thankfully, I have past iterations to play and love, but I feel for the people who want TS4 to be a better game because they like some of it but are sad about other bits. Most of the time, I feel so saddened by what The Sims has been reduced to, that I can't ever really find much, if anything, nice to say about it, and it shows.
PoppySims Archive
InnaLisa Pose Archive
Devolution of Sims - a once customisable open world sandbox which has become a DLC Party catalog in a shoebox
I ♡ Pudding
I prefer to imagine it doesn't have the tools to let me imagine... Oh wait. That's not my imagination...
This, I agree. I know that a lot of people complained about what they felt was a lack of humor and charm in TS3 and I guess they tried to address that, but the so-called humor in TS4 is missing the mark with me too (as well as many other aspects of the game).
I've also said many times that it's as if the game has a split personality. Infantile attempts at humor on one hand, but on the other the developers give away assets in exchange for woohoo (anyone who was around for the infamous "woohoo weekend" will understand what I'm saying!).
I know this is redundant since many have already commented but I just have to chime in and say that you and Sk8rblaze both are spot on as far as I'm concerned in your summaries. I'm also one of those players who cannot play TS4 because it constantly breaks my immersion. Everything from the cartoon, plastic environment, to the toon-like sims with their over-exaggerated expressions, to the lack of creative possibilities, the simplistic programming, to so many things not even actually being simulated anymore (transportation, many NPC's, all life stages, a neighborhood feel, sims with unique personalities, etc.) just ruin the game for me.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
Yeah, I thought mischief skill was a really duh thing to add.
Since The Sims series has always avoided some very dark understones, being a criminal was really something just for an unseen career - and left at that. But with the addition of tasks, they have to choose the evilest thing to do in the game for the criminals, which is.. some childish pranks. Hmpf.
I don't get why even have the evil trait (that goes to TS3 also, btw) if the game has nothing really evil to do in. I mean, I'm not expecting GTA levels of evilness, but pranks are not evil. And having an evil laugh is not really that evil too.
I prefered having grumpy sims like in The Sims 2, because the most grumpy ones were really a pain to socialize with. They hated losing in games, would never accept a compliment and would consistently be unpleasent all the time during a conversation. They would also autonomously be mean to other sims. I know that is not "evil", but it really felt like those sims were a bunch of jerks, and they felt way more unpleasent then all the evil sims I've ever had on The Sims 4.
Is there any reason too , nobody is arguing . Or making a fuss . Infact everyone seems to be the most respectful here . Most of the comments seem to be on topic, so the thread isn't derail in anyway .