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VOTE: open world or no rabbit holes?

Comments

  • pguidapguida Posts: 7,481 Member
    edited October 2013
    Sk8rblaze wrote:
    I vote open world with no rabbit holes except school and work. I don't want to follow them to the school and watch them shuffle papers all day. Or kick around a ball all day in the athletic career. What I want are shopping centers and pubs and restaurants and spas and things like that.

    100% agree. Other than school/work, there should be no reason why they can't make everything else an open venue and not a rabbithole other than laziness. The game, as they stated, will run better on lower end machines. Wouldn't that make it easier for them to do this without the game exploding?

    If I see ONE rabbithole other than school/work I'm going to be VERY disappointed with the game. At this point in time, it shouldn't be done. Just my two cents though.

    Computer processing power. With Sims 3, this would result in your town being pretty much empty.

    Even with optimization, to fully open everything except work and school, they probably would have to go closed-world again. From what I understand, it's a problem with engine type that simply cannot be solved.

    Homes are closed. They could deal with exceeding sims by leaving them at home. They could also not simulate every sim, only once you open a lot have random sims appear or be there already. In TS3 the gym is not opened all the time, only when I zoom in.
  • TanyaRubiroseTanyaRubirose Posts: 11,033 Member
    edited October 2013
    pguida wrote:
    Sk8rblaze wrote:
    I vote open world with no rabbit holes except school and work. I don't want to follow them to the school and watch them shuffle papers all day. Or kick around a ball all day in the athletic career. What I want are shopping centers and pubs and restaurants and spas and things like that.

    100% agree. Other than school/work, there should be no reason why they can't make everything else an open venue and not a rabbithole other than laziness. The game, as they stated, will run better on lower end machines. Wouldn't that make it easier for them to do this without the game exploding?

    If I see ONE rabbithole other than school/work I'm going to be VERY disappointed with the game. At this point in time, it shouldn't be done. Just my two cents though.

    Computer processing power. With Sims 3, this would result in your town being pretty much empty.

    Even with optimization, to fully open everything except work and school, they probably would have to go closed-world again. From what I understand, it's a problem with engine type that simply cannot be solved.

    Homes are closed. They could deal with exceeding sims by leaving them at home. They could also not simulate every sim, only once you open a lot have random sims appear or be there already. In TS3 the gym is not opened all the time, only when I zoom in.

    I don't even know if that's possible with this engine type. It's certainly something the engine type wasn't pioneered for.

    Of course, the engine type was made with the idea people would be throwing large armies at each other using it...

    That might be possible.
  • xladyjxladyj Posts: 1,166 Member
    edited October 2013
    Open world, for sure. It's easier to visit townies my sim has befriended or fallen for. I could deal with rabbit holes, although I really, really miss the restaurant dates from TS1.

  • despina53despina53 Posts: 1,654 Member
    edited October 2013
    I really like that idea of districts. Maybe something like 4 square blocks? Do you think that would be doable, Tanya?

    ETA: I don't want to see rabbitholes for anything other than work and school.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Call me Dee :p
    Proud member of the "Own The Store Club"
  • treelifetreelife Posts: 254
    edited October 2013
    Sk8rblaze wrote:
    I vote open world with no rabbit holes except school and work. I don't want to follow them to the school and watch them shuffle papers all day. Or kick around a ball all day in the athletic career. What I want are shopping centers and pubs and restaurants and spas and things like that.

    100% agree. Other than school/work, there should be no reason why they can't make everything else an open venue and not a rabbithole other than laziness. The game, as they stated, will run better on lower end machines. Wouldn't that make it easier for them to do this without the game exploding?

    If I see ONE rabbithole other than school/work I'm going to be VERY disappointed with the game. At this point in time, it shouldn't be done. Just my two cents though.

    Computer processing power. With Sims 3, this would result in your town being pretty much empty.

    Even with optimization, to fully open everything except work and school, they probably would have to go closed-world again. From what I understand, it's a problem with engine type that simply cannot be solved.

    :), It wouldn't have to affect performance. :) Most games use selective loading (as it only loads a small chunk of what your currently looking at and the areas near it so if you move the camera you don't get lag), this allows the game to only load and render a small piece of the world but to you it would seem seamless (well if programmed correctly), :)

    And On Topic: My vote is both, this is a 2014 game, if it can't deliver both then it is just plain silly.
  • Starglitters9909Starglitters9909 Posts: 2,524 Member
    edited October 2013
    I hope it is an open world game. I don't mind a few rabbit holes in the game but I definitely want an open world.
    6cca377d-2512-4319-9ce5-8f4c646cf7f8_zpsa768ec53.jpg
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited October 2013
    Definitely open world, because I don't mind the rabbitholes at all. I don't need to see everything my Sims are doing. If one is inside a rabbithole I can pay full attention to the other.
    Apart from that: I love the open world.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • TanyaRubiroseTanyaRubirose Posts: 11,033 Member
    edited October 2013
    treelife wrote:
    Sk8rblaze wrote:
    I vote open world with no rabbit holes except school and work. I don't want to follow them to the school and watch them shuffle papers all day. Or kick around a ball all day in the athletic career. What I want are shopping centers and pubs and restaurants and spas and things like that.

    100% agree. Other than school/work, there should be no reason why they can't make everything else an open venue and not a rabbithole other than laziness. The game, as they stated, will run better on lower end machines. Wouldn't that make it easier for them to do this without the game exploding?

    If I see ONE rabbithole other than school/work I'm going to be VERY disappointed with the game. At this point in time, it shouldn't be done. Just my two cents though.

    Computer processing power. With Sims 3, this would result in your town being pretty much empty.

    Even with optimization, to fully open everything except work and school, they probably would have to go closed-world again. From what I understand, it's a problem with engine type that simply cannot be solved.

    :), It wouldn't have to affect performance. :) Most games use selective loading (as it only loads a small chunk of what your currently looking at and the areas near it so if you move the camera you don't get lag), this allows the game to only load and render a small piece of the world but to you it would seem seamless (well if programmed correctly), :)

    And On Topic: My vote is both, this is a 2014 game, if it can't deliver both then it is just plain silly.

    That's a feature of RPG-engine games. This is an RTS-engine game. RTS engines load and keep track of the entire world at once; it's one of the key features to their design and one of the key components to allowing them to manage players throwing entire armies at each other.

    Before you suggest moving to an RPG-engine, keep in mind RPG-engine games were not designed with in-game customization in mind. RTS-engine games were designed to massive amounts of in-game customization, since no two players will build a base the same way. Sims series makes use of the RTS customization features to allow us to do things such as build and decorate houses.

    So what you suggest is literally impossible under this engine type.

    TL;DR version: Engine type is god. This engine type doesn't allow that.
  • KyliesThoughtsKyliesThoughts Posts: 698 Member
    edited October 2013

    They mentioned neighbourhood rather than world with Sims4. So I'm thinking you're correct.
    It would be cool if these neighbourhoods were small open districts, even a block or two. So we could have a downtown, lakeside/seaside, countryside, etc all within the "world" So you could still go outside and visit your neighbour, or take a stroll, but you'd get a small load screen to enter another district

    :shock:
    What a wonderful idea! That way we could have both, and the game won't lag trying to run an open world and all of the stores. This is genius, how come they couldn't have thought of that?!
  • KansineKansine Posts: 105 Member
    edited October 2013
    I would hate a completely closed world, 'cause I love to explore the world aimlessly with my sims.
    And in some way I even like rabbitholes - as long as someone is going to make a mod again where you can use special small carpets (or something similar) as rabbitholes and are free to make the building surrounding the rabbithole yourself. That way I feel like I have more freedom to make different looking "rabbithole buildings", than if the "rabbitholes" (except not actually rabbitholes) were open lots that always absolutely had to include a ton of specific objects. Now I can, for instance, build a fake book store (where I'm free to use any kind of bookshelves I like) and just have the actual rabbithole in a room at the back.

    So: I vote Open world!
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited October 2013

    They mentioned neighbourhood rather than world with Sims4. So I'm thinking you're correct.
    It would be cool if these neighbourhoods were small open districts, even a block or two. So we could have a downtown, lakeside/seaside, countryside, etc all within the "world" So you could still go outside and visit your neighbour, or take a stroll, but you'd get a small load screen to enter another district

    :shock:
    What a wonderful idea! That way we could have both, and the game won't lag trying to run an open world and all of the stores. This is genius, how come they couldn't have thought of that?!
    If there's something I hate it's load screens by the way... If it can't be avoided I'll live with it, but to me that would be a bigger issue than rabbitholes or some lagging (which only happens a bit when they drive).
    I do have a feeling they did think of this, I have a slight feeling this is what sims 4 is going to be like. I've seen some 'town pictures' with a decorlike looking background.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • windweaverwindweaver Posts: 7,372 Member
    edited October 2013
    Sk8rblaze wrote:
    The fact they state Sims 4 will run better on computers than Sims 3, despite the more modern graphics, and have stated nothing about the world being open or closed leads me to suspect it's closed.

    What about the trolley we've seen in multiple pics?

    Meh, after TS3, I don't really mind it, but I don't know for sure. Judging from the early UI pic (should it really be closed world), it looks like they'll be able to make it much more detailed.

    I really hope they found a solution, maybe somewhere between having a closed world and open world to fix these issues.

    It would be like the helicopter, cars, people flying, etc. in Sims 2. Just transportation you enter before ending up going through a loading screen to another lot.

    I kinda suspect the closed world sections will be bigger than just your lot, though. Probably small slices of the world.

    They mentioned neighbourhood rather than world with Sims4. So I'm thinking you're correct.
    It would be cool if these neighbourhoods were small open districts, even a block or two. So we could have a downtown, lakeside/seaside, countryside, etc all within the "world" So you could still go outside and visit your neighbour, or take a stroll, but you'd get a small load screen to enter another district

    Shelly, I love your idea. I keep thinking of ts2 BV, and how your idea could be applied to the many community lots in that ep. The loading screens in that ep were excessive, your hybrid would have been terrific.

    Plus I wonder if they use a mixed system, would we once again, get lots of NCP neighborhood sims showing up on community lots? I sure hope so, whatever system they use.
    My Origin Name is: Cynconzola8
  • Solstice401Solstice401 Posts: 1,074 Member
    edited October 2013
    I'm sorry, but if I absolutely, positively have to go choose, I would go with close world no rabbit holes especially if we get to see them at school and work. I just really hated those darn rabbit holes, maybe a little bit more than the average simmer. :lol: I want to see my sims out at dinner and make them toast and flirt with each other over the table, and watch them try on clothes and interact with the clerk. I missed the little things like actually watching them go grocery shopping. I mean, I liked the idea of an open world and if we could have both, that would be wonderful, but I just really despised those rabbit holes. :x

    I feel the same way. I would love more then anything to have open restaurants again like in the Sims 2 not Sims 3 (like actual hosts, waiters and chefs). And grocery stores, clothing store and things like that.
    Edit: also I wouldn't mind if it was closed if that meant the lots would actually be full of other Sims. I am tired of empty lots.
  • Bear31Bear31 Posts: 3,412 Member
    edited October 2013
    I think that, in making the game, they should see just how many rabbitholes they can get opened up with the open world and then let us know. I could deal with there being rabbit holes in the game if it simply can't be done. Just let us know, EA, what the results were of the testing and why it happened the way it did. I think that if you did that, you'd get less people who were upset that you couldn't open up rabbitholes or less that got upset because you used a closed world because we would have a hand in the decision.

    If it were me, obviously, I would choose open world hands down.
  • lisasc360lisasc360 Posts: 19,255 Member
    edited October 2013
    Callum9432 wrote:
    A mix of both. Workplaces and schools can remain rabbitholes. Shops and restaurants should remain open.

    However, processing power could be a problem... so maybe they could do semi-open shops and restaurants.

    Here's an idea I had; shops and restaurants act like rabbitholes when your Sim isn't there. Sims that work there just go in and disappear, as do Sims who go shopping or eating there. But once you direct your Sim(s) to go there, it opens up to a functioning venue.

    I'm not sure if that's even possible, but it's an idea anyway. Might as well put it out there :P.

    I like this idea... :)

    And I also vote for an open world... :D There is no way that I could go back to playing a closed world again... :(
  • LisameesimsLisameesims Posts: 1,125 Member
    edited October 2013
    Open World, no rabbit holes.
  • jcp011c2jcp011c2 Posts: 10,859 Member
    edited October 2013
    lisasc360 wrote:
    Callum9432 wrote:
    A mix of both. Workplaces and schools can remain rabbitholes. Shops and restaurants should remain open.

    However, processing power could be a problem... so maybe they could do semi-open shops and restaurants.

    Here's an idea I had; shops and restaurants act like rabbitholes when your Sim isn't there. Sims that work there just go in and disappear, as do Sims who go shopping or eating there. But once you direct your Sim(s) to go there, it opens up to a functioning venue.

    I'm not sure if that's even possible, but it's an idea anyway. Might as well put it out there :P.

    I like this idea... :)

    And I also vote for an open world... :D There is no way that I could go back to playing a closed world again... :(

    Also really like this idea. If I'm not playing the family I don't really care so much if the lots townies and premades go into are open or closed, as I'm not playing them.

    I do also want to add that I'm perfectly fine with schools and office buildings remaining closed. I spend enough time at a desk in real life, it can be boring (unless I'm gaming) and I would imagine I'd be bored watching my Sims at a desk all day long, too.
    It's kind of sad that I have to point out that anything I say is only just my opinion and may be a different one from someone else.
  • treelifetreelife Posts: 254
    edited October 2013
    treelife wrote:
    Sk8rblaze wrote:
    I vote open world with no rabbit holes except school and work. I don't want to follow them to the school and watch them shuffle papers all day. Or kick around a ball all day in the athletic career. What I want are shopping centers and pubs and restaurants and spas and things like that.

    100% agree. Other than school/work, there should be no reason why they can't make everything else an open venue and not a rabbithole other than laziness. The game, as they stated, will run better on lower end machines. Wouldn't that make it easier for them to do this without the game exploding?

    If I see ONE rabbithole other than school/work I'm going to be VERY disappointed with the game. At this point in time, it shouldn't be done. Just my two cents though.

    Computer processing power. With Sims 3, this would result in your town being pretty much empty.

    Even with optimization, to fully open everything except work and school, they probably would have to go closed-world again. From what I understand, it's a problem with engine type that simply cannot be solved.

    :), It wouldn't have to affect performance. :) Most games use selective loading (as it only loads a small chunk of what your currently looking at and the areas near it so if you move the camera you don't get lag), this allows the game to only load and render a small piece of the world but to you it would seem seamless (well if programmed correctly), :)

    And On Topic: My vote is both, this is a 2014 game, if it can't deliver both then it is just plain silly.

    That's a feature of RPG-engine games. This is an RTS-engine game. RTS engines load and keep track of the entire world at once; it's one of the key features to their design and one of the key components to allowing them to manage players throwing entire armies at each other.

    Before you suggest moving to an RPG-engine, keep in mind RPG-engine games were not designed with in-game customization in mind. RTS-engine games were designed to massive amounts of in-game customization, since no two players will build a base the same way. Sims series makes use of the RTS customization features to allow us to do things such as build and decorate houses.

    So what you suggest is literally impossible under this engine type.

    TL;DR version: Engine type is god. This engine type doesn't allow that.

    While yes it is typically is used in RPG's it wouldn't be impossible for them to implement since it isn't like they are not using a previously built engine an instead have built a custom one for Sims 4. :

    I'm pretty sure civ 5 does this and it is not an RPG, :)

    Besides, considering open rabbit holes with open world is pretty much possible in Sims 3 (think how university tutorial classes work), with some creative thinking it could actually be implemented already in the Sims 3. I've actually put a bit of thought into how you could do it. However, it sims the Sims 3 engine is already bloated as so while it would work it would be very inefficient. But Sims 4 doesn't this excuse, :)
  • TanyaRubiroseTanyaRubirose Posts: 11,033 Member
    edited October 2013
    treelife wrote:
    While yes it is typically is used in RPG's it wouldn't be impossible for them to implement since it isn't like they are not using a previously built engine an instead have built a custom one for Sims 4. :

    I'm pretty sure civ 5 does this and it is not an RPG, :)

    Besides, considering open rabbit holes with open world is pretty much possible in Sims 3 (think how university tutorial classes work), with some creative thinking it could actually be implemented already in the Sims 3. I've actually put a bit of thought into how you could do it. However, it sims the Sims 3 engine is already bloated as so while it would work it would be very inefficient. But Sims 4 doesn't this excuse, :)

    Actually, no, Civilization 5 doesn't do it that way. You're confusing Fog of War for not loading the entire world. Sims 3 uses the Fog of War effect in Island Paradise with its hidden islands; if you have the Collection Helper, you can see that, despite the fact that they are hidden, the game is still tracking them. Same thing if you use certain mods with Civ 5... you find out the game is still tracking the rest of the world, despite the fact you can't see it.

    And it doesn't matter that they're not using a pre-built engine... they're using an existing engine type. You can tell from the gameplay demo, in how they moved and built houses for Sims 4. As long as they use a certain type, they are bound by the rules of that type... it does not matter if the engine itself is entirely new, as the basics of the engine type itself do not change. And trying to breed the basics of RPG engines into RTS engines simply results in a program that will never compile, so it's not even possible to hybridize the two.

    So, no, they can't do this. Modern technology will not let them.

    And, no, the University classes were not open rabbitholes; they used the fog of war effect. You could actually disable it with the right mods or cheats, and you could see the lot remained active and the game kept track of the inside even when you couldn't normally see it. And it cannot be implemented in Sims 3 because the Sims 3 engine won't allow it; the devs themselves have admitted the engine is at the end of what modifications it will allow with ITF. There's nothing more they can add without breaking the engine entirely, and what you suggest is drastically more than most expansion packs.

    Computers are not magical machines that will do whatever you want them to do. They have rules and limits, and they have types of programs that have even more restrictive rules and limits. Ultimately, they're just very, very complex pocket calculators that can show you all kinds of neat things that mathematics allows... but that pocket calculator remains the essence of what they are at their core. And that is why they are so limited.
  • despina53despina53 Posts: 1,654 Member
    edited October 2013
    I don't remember when I read it (it was quite some time ago) but someone had an idea for semi-open rabbitholes.

    The idea, if I remember correctly, was that the front area of the store/restaurant/hospital/etc. would be enter-able by the sim (and we could customize this portion) but a back room with an "employees only" door would be the actual rabbithole a sim would go to work in.

    I would think something along those lines should be doable.

    And I still think that an "district" about 4 square blocks would make a decent neighborhood without overtaxing a computer.
    Call me Dee :p
    Proud member of the "Own The Store Club"
  • treelifetreelife Posts: 254
    edited October 2013
    treelife wrote:
    While yes it is typically is used in RPG's it wouldn't be impossible for them to implement since it isn't like they are not using a previously built engine an instead have built a custom one for Sims 4. :

    I'm pretty sure civ 5 does this and it is not an RPG, :)

    Besides, considering open rabbit holes with open world is pretty much possible in Sims 3 (think how university tutorial classes work), with some creative thinking it could actually be implemented already in the Sims 3. I've actually put a bit of thought into how you could do it. However, it sims the Sims 3 engine is already bloated as so while it would work it would be very inefficient. But Sims 4 doesn't this excuse, :)

    Actually, no, Civilization 5 doesn't do it that way. You're confusing Fog of War for not loading the entire world. Sims 3 uses the Fog of War effect in Island Paradise with its hidden islands; if you have the Collection Helper, you can see that, despite the fact that they are hidden, the game is still tracking them. Same thing if you use certain mods with Civ 5... you find out the game is still tracking the rest of the world, despite the fact you can't see it.

    And it doesn't matter that they're not using a pre-built engine... they're using an existing engine type. You can tell from the gameplay demo, in how they moved and built houses for Sims 4. As long as they use a certain type, they are bound by the rules of that type... it does not matter if the engine itself is entirely new, as the basics of the engine type itself do not change. And trying to breed the basics of RPG engines into RTS engines simply results in a program that will never compile, so it's not even possible to hybridize the two.

    So, no, they can't do this. Modern technology will not let them.

    And, no, the University classes were not open rabbitholes; they used the fog of war effect. You could actually disable it with the right mods or cheats, and you could see the lot remained active and the game kept track of the inside even when you couldn't normally see it. And it cannot be implemented in Sims 3 because the Sims 3 engine won't allow it; the devs themselves have admitted the engine is at the end of what modifications it will allow with ITF. There's nothing more they can add without breaking the engine entirely, and what you suggest is drastically more than most expansion packs.

    Computers are not magical machines that will do whatever you want them to do. They have rules and limits, and they have types of programs that have even more restrictive rules and limits. Ultimately, they're just very, very complex pocket calculators that can show you all kinds of neat things that mathematics allows... but that pocket calculator remains the essence of what they are at their core. And that is why they are so limited.

    I actually know quite a bit about computers, I have an IT degree and work in IT consulting for a major international company. I realise there are many people who are not computer literate on the forums but please don't presume I don't know what I'm talking about. :)

    And that 'fog or war' as you put it was sort of what I was talking about, I just wasn't very clear sorry. :), Sure the game
    tracks what it going on in non-visible areas but that is just simulated calculations and doesn't require a huge amount of processing power, :). What tends to be most taxing on the computer is graphics rendering. In the Sims 3 already uses the fog of war system a little, you will notice the game only renders the outside of community lot (open in the traditional sense e.g library or the university building shell way) when your scrolling around the town and then you get a second or delay when your sims visits the lot as the computer renders the inside and it opens up.

    Besides I hardly say it is not possible in the sims 3 when majority of rabbit holes have open version that have been later released:

    – Career/school buildings -> Ambitions careers + university
    – Bistro -> WA stores and the restaurant set in the store
    - Spa -> Store spare set
    – Grocery - WA store + Produce cart from Monta Vista
    - Resort RH -> the luxury room (might have a different name)
    - Cinema RH-> Store Cinema

    I also know that when the developers say that something isn't possible that it normally means we do think it has a good return on investment and/or it is not possible with the current tight budget/schedule. Please note, I'm not complain about the developers I just know that is how the industry works, :).

    That being said I do 100% agree with you the SIms 3 engine isn't exactly optimised to run things smoothly, :). But the brand new Sims 4 engine (I think it is called Smart Sim) made jus for the game should be able to. Considering we have had 4 years or so of improvements in Technology, :)

    Edit: grammar, :)
  • Erich_RaederErich_Raeder Posts: 1,114 Member
    edited October 2013
    No more rabbit holes for Spa,Grocery Store,Book store,Cinema,restaurant and etc
  • RAE2786RAE2786 Posts: 683 New Member
    edited October 2013
    I would prefer no rabbitholes at all, and careers that absolutely require them should be done away with and replaced with ones that don't, like the professions that came with Ambitions for example. I would also like to play sims in school but if that's not likely, another option could be replacing the rabbithole school with a home-schooling option or something like that.
  • ShelleybellyShelleybelly Posts: 2,587 Member
    edited October 2013

    They mentioned neighbourhood rather than world with Sims4. So I'm thinking you're correct.
    It would be cool if these neighbourhoods were small open districts, even a block or two. So we could have a downtown, lakeside/seaside, countryside, etc all within the "world" So you could still go outside and visit your neighbour, or take a stroll, but you'd get a small load screen to enter another district

    :shock:
    What a wonderful idea! That way we could have both, and the game won't lag trying to run an open world and all of the stores. This is genius, how come they couldn't have thought of that?!

    Thanks. :) But I don't think I can really take credit for the idea. Brainstorming in another thread and the progression led to this.
  • LiliyahLiliyah Posts: 592 Member
    edited October 2013
    I vote open world with no rabbit holes except school and work. I don't want to follow them to the school and watch them shuffle papers all day. Or kick around a ball all day in the athletic career. What I want are shopping centers and pubs and restaurants and spas and things like that.
    This
    anigif_enhanced-buzz-26907-1385048868-23.gif


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