I like the aim but not the execution - Its something I want but want it done differently
Hmmm….
Well…..
Ehhr…
Uhmm….🤔
See…we’re talking about a life simulator here. There’s no way you cannot NOT represent or include things that reflect real life because we as a bunch of emotional human beans will always be on the lookout for something that we can relate to. We’re a bit annoying that way.
This is why I believe an interesting and fun life simulator like the sims should aim for inclusivity and representation by giving the player the tools to create anything they want or feel they need without being too specific.
I personally have a huge dislike for literal representation of (sub) cultural / religious behavior and items (this is where owning a pc and custom content could play a significant role) BUT I always appreciate gameplay and worlds and architecture and objects that merely suggest something from - or is inspired by- a particular region / culture in the world.
Don’t take away from a player’s own imagination and creativity. Support it. Encourage it.
For example, CAS is a wonderful feature that lets us play with genetics and anything else that healthy humans are BORN with or develop in their lifetime. Therefore I appreciate the addition of more skintones and natural hair colors and textures only because I want my characters to look as versatile as the peoples around me. This only makes sense.
However, the sims who belong to minority groups -e.g. occults and somewhat hairy male sims- deserve the same attention since they are also part of this game. 😇
I love attire that is inspired by cultural, historical and modern fashion. Same goes for worlds. Geography, climate, and again, gameplay that suggests culture related activities -such as eating with chopsticks or simply a fork- is always welcome. Wait a sec…do sims eat their soup with a fork too? 🤔
It doesn’t matter. With food recipes being the rule to the exception, I just feel uncomfortable with anything too “Real Life Literal” added to this game. I repeat, game. Not “real life”. Game.
Say for example we were to get kilts inspired by Scotland, which would be great by the way, yes? Scott-ish kilts?
The moment you try and be literal about them kilts: “Now folks to celebrate Scottish inclusion, we want you to know that this tartan with these colors and that pattern and these socks belongs to such and such Clan”…you gonna ask for heaps, no, Highlands of trouble. Trouble with about 480 + Scottish clans you failed to include. Clash of Clans.
I would be very unimpressed by such literal representation, plus, who cares about Scottish families? I certainly don’t. I want to create my own clans. And don’t bite my head off you Scots! I’m only yer big aul pesky brother from across the mire AArr. 😘
Anyhoo, speaking of clash of clans, something similar happened with the addition of pride flags and slogans. One flag was missing, BAM! Bird poo all over social media aka Twitter Storm. Funny thing is, there is already enough decoration in the game to celebrate some of these specific communities. Why so literal? You offer folks a finger, they want the entire arm -make that body- that belongs to that finger.
But whoever complained, was spot-on! You either do it right, or you don’t do it at all. There can’t be room for mistakes. That’s part of the issue.
And with this kind of letter-for -letter, real world symbolism….there are too many unintentional mistakes to be made. Waste of time and too stressful on the dev team. Seriously. It puts the game in danger of feeling one sided and political.
Why not keep it light and avoid Social Media Sharknadoes? This is already difficult enough considering the fact that we all live on Cancel Culture Planet, but It’s the only bad weather you could possibly stop from happening.
As others suggest, improve the game tools and systems so the ideas and ideals you stand for actually make sense.
Add an attraction system; work on the Ai; give us a couple more sliders; add a skin detail brush and a bodyhair menu ; fix the deformed clothing on certain frames; stop the Nancy Landgraab invasions of every single friggin’ world if I choose so and let some of my sims NOT HAVE A DARN SMERT PHONE DARNITT!!!
Etcetera.
Give us more options and improve the basics!
In my opinion slapping all these woke bandaids onto the game does not improve anything and will only cause more cases of the notorious “ I Feel Left Out “ syndrome. Oh Yawn and where’s the fun in that?
Just a sec…
Oh no……my sim kid wants me to eliminate the Cthulhu that lives under her bed. I can see it right there. IT’S GOT TENTACLES FOR HEAVEN’s SAKE!! 😱
I like the aim but not the execution - Its something I want but want it done differently
Just going to try to best answer the bonus questions. So for religion I would like a tool combining tools from the club system and the seasons system and then ability to pick a plumbob color when doing the group activity. Has to be very customizable like I would like activities such as singing, playing instruments, giving presentations, and talking about the religion with other Sims. What being a Sim follows should be customizable too for example the god Simmer, voidcritters, freezer bunnies, llamas, etc. Keep it very sandbox and Sims related and optional to join or not like the club system.
For disability representation I want superheroes that give Sims special abilities like X-Ray vision, rocket wheelchair, flame thrower cane, echolocation hearing, etc. Seeing superheroes like Spiderman that were just underdog people given strengths and abilities to get through rough times helped me while growing up. Probably why I relate to supernaturals too is researching them going back to real health conditions some of them I faced growing up helped as well such as feeling like a mermaid not being able to walk some days and well having epilepsy kids in school said I was possessed like a witch during a seizure. Probably why I don't take threats of I shouldn't play video games seriously because there was a point of my life I couldn't play them at all. So would generally be nice to have underdogs being represented in the game given that I happily am one. I wouldn't want it any other way and thankful to have my religion and the Sims and family and friends to get me through the worst of days. That is representation means to me is having those that have been historically and currently abused represented in the game one way or another and well happy to share some underdog things in common with the OP.
For work this is Boli which include the laws all employees must follow regardless of where they are. Jobs tend to check social media too so pretty much discrimination towards any of the protected classes is discrimination towards all so what I follow in addition to the golden rule of course. https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/Pages/discrimination-at-work.aspx
Post edited by Scobre on
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Main Poll Question:
Do you think the Sims 4's execution & aim of being more 'inclusive' has been moreso helpful or harmful to the game/series as a whole?
I wouldn't use the words "helpful or harmful". I would use the word "changed". The sims series, beginning with Sims 1, used to have an enormous amount of gameplay. Silly and absurd things happened. There was a great deal of wildly fun stuff. And you played the game you wanted to play - with sims that were just sims. No representation of anyone. Just made-up characters who only represented themselves. Sure there were archtypes. This is common when storytelling is involved. But you played the game using the characters, and the focus was on the "playing".
Now it is a dollhouse. Nothing wrong with having an inclusive dollhouse. But once you start marketing your game as " create yourself and live your life", then you owe it to everyone to make sure they can make themselves and live the virtual life that they want to live. So, if the game fails, on any level, to offer the tools to create everyone who plays it, the game can be branded as racist, sexist, ageist, ableist, anti- this, pro-that, etcetera, etcetera.
There is no walking back from this type of marketing. Instead of focusing on gameplay, the focus must now be on meeting the expectations created by marketing. "Does this game allow myself and my life to be represented with the same equity that it allows everyone else to be represented?" The answer will always be "no". There is only so much that can be created and added at any one time. It will never be equal portions for all peoples. There will always be a level of disappointment for the group who was not included in this batch or this update. And because of the marketing, that disappointment will always be taken deeply personal.
I think that the choice to market the game with the focus on "creating your simself" instead of focusing on "ack! those sims put too much soap in the washing machine and now the laundry room floor is covered in bubbles!" has put this game into a very narrow area, and there is no getting out of it. I think this has caused the gameplay to suffer.
But for those who like the dollhouse... they have the right to expect what was marketed to them.
Main Poll Question:
Do you think the Sims 4's execution & aim of being more 'inclusive' has been moreso helpful or harmful to the game/series as a whole?
I wouldn't use the words "helpful or harmful". I would use the word "changed". The sims series, beginning with Sims 1, used to have an enormous amount of gameplay. Silly and absurd things happened. There was a great deal of wildly fun stuff. And you played the game you wanted to play - with sims that were just sims. No representation of anyone. Just made-up characters who only represented themselves. Sure there were archtypes. This is common when storytelling is involved. But you played the game using the characters, and the focus was on the "playing".
Now it is a dollhouse. Nothing wrong with having an inclusive dollhouse. But once you start marketing your game as " create yourself and live your life", then you owe it to everyone to make sure they can make themselves and live the virtual life that they want to live. So, if the game fails, on any level, to offer the tools to create everyone who plays it, the game can be branded as racist, sexist, ageist, ableist, anti- this, pro-that, etcetera, etcetera.
There is no walking back from this type of marketing. Instead of focusing on gameplay, the focus must now be on meeting the expectations created by marketing. "Does this game allow myself and my life to be represented with the same equity that it allows everyone else to be represented?" The answer will always be "no". There is only so much that can be created and added at any one time. It will never be equal portions for all peoples. There will always be a level of disappointment for the group who was not included in this batch or this update. And because of the marketing, that disappointment will always be taken deeply personal.
I think that the choice to market the game with the focus on "creating your simself" instead of focusing on "ack! those sims put too much soap in the washing machine and now the laundry room floor is covered in bubbles!" has put this game into a very narrow area, and there is no getting out of it. I think this has caused the gameplay to suffer.
But for those who like the dollhouse... they have the right to expect what was marketed to them.
Wow! You said exactly what I feel but couldn't figure out how to say it without it seeming like I was uncaring or had little interest for every person to be represented in the game.
I agree with everything you've said. Gone are the days when it was just a game and you controlled the lives of these little computer generated beings. Now there's very little actual gameplay being developed and the focus is on how you can represent your simself visually.
And I also feel like there's no going back. What they've started with TS4 will continue into any future iteration of The Sims. Maybe the next game should be named "The Virtuals" instead of The Sims.
I like the aim but not the execution - Its something I want but want it done differently
To tell the absolute truth I ignore it entirely as I'm more into building than building lives but accept it if it's important to other people. I just make everybody "friends" and am not romantic at all! I don't think this iteration is complex enough to deal with it. That'll have to wait until any new iteration, I think.
Main Poll Question:
Do you think the Sims 4's execution & aim of being more 'inclusive' has been moreso helpful or harmful to the game/series as a whole?
I wouldn't use the words "helpful or harmful". I would use the word "changed". The sims series, beginning with Sims 1, used to have an enormous amount of gameplay. Silly and absurd things happened. There was a great deal of wildly fun stuff. And you played the game you wanted to play - with sims that were just sims. No representation of anyone. Just made-up characters who only represented themselves. Sure there were archtypes. This is common when storytelling is involved. But you played the game using the characters, and the focus was on the "playing".
Now it is a dollhouse. Nothing wrong with having an inclusive dollhouse. But once you start marketing your game as " create yourself and live your life", then you owe it to everyone to make sure they can make themselves and live the virtual life that they want to live. So, if the game fails, on any level, to offer the tools to create everyone who plays it, the game can be branded as racist, sexist, ageist, ableist, anti- this, pro-that, etcetera, etcetera.
There is no walking back from this type of marketing. Instead of focusing on gameplay, the focus must now be on meeting the expectations created by marketing. "Does this game allow myself and my life to be represented with the same equity that it allows everyone else to be represented?" The answer will always be "no". There is only so much that can be created and added at any one time. It will never be equal portions for all peoples. There will always be a level of disappointment for the group who was not included in this batch or this update. And because of the marketing, that disappointment will always be taken deeply personal.
I think that the choice to market the game with the focus on "creating your simself" instead of focusing on "ack! those sims put too much soap in the washing machine and now the laundry room floor is covered in bubbles!" has put this game into a very narrow area, and there is no getting out of it. I think this has caused the gameplay to suffer.
But for those who like the dollhouse... they have the right to expect what was marketed to them.
This has covered my exact feelings without me having to use words. 😌
I neither like the execution and its aim - Its not something I want and the executions has been unsatisfactory
I think it can be harmful. I'm all for treating everyone equally, however, I believe being too inclusive can conflict in certain areas. In past games this wasnt the goal. I think they should go back to the roots to make a good game. Again, I have nothing against inclusion but there's no way they could ever be 100% inclusive with everyone without offending someone. 🤷🏿♀️
"Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
Main Poll Question:
Do you think the Sims 4's execution & aim of being more 'inclusive' has been moreso helpful or harmful to the game/series as a whole?
I wouldn't use the words "helpful or harmful". I would use the word "changed". The sims series, beginning with Sims 1, used to have an enormous amount of gameplay. Silly and absurd things happened. There was a great deal of wildly fun stuff. And you played the game you wanted to play - with sims that were just sims. No representation of anyone. Just made-up characters who only represented themselves. Sure there were archtypes. This is common when storytelling is involved. But you played the game using the characters, and the focus was on the "playing".
Now it is a dollhouse. Nothing wrong with having an inclusive dollhouse. But once you start marketing your game as " create yourself and live your life", then you owe it to everyone to make sure they can make themselves and live the virtual life that they want to live. So, if the game fails, on any level, to offer the tools to create everyone who plays it, the game can be branded as racist, sexist, ageist, ableist, anti- this, pro-that, etcetera, etcetera.
There is no walking back from this type of marketing. Instead of focusing on gameplay, the focus must now be on meeting the expectations created by marketing. "Does this game allow myself and my life to be represented with the same equity that it allows everyone else to be represented?" The answer will always be "no". There is only so much that can be created and added at any one time. It will never be equal portions for all peoples. There will always be a level of disappointment for the group who was not included in this batch or this update. And because of the marketing, that disappointment will always be taken deeply personal.
I think that the choice to market the game with the focus on "creating your simself" instead of focusing on "ack! those sims put too much soap in the washing machine and now the laundry room floor is covered in bubbles!" has put this game into a very narrow area, and there is no getting out of it. I think this has caused the gameplay to suffer.
But for those who like the dollhouse... they have the right to expect what was marketed to them.
I agree
"Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
because yes surely inclusivity is lovely and i don't mind having more beautiful cultures represented in the game and it was really nice when they added hairs and skintones cause well yeah the selection was quite small
but at the same time it really frustrates me when they keep pushing visual additions over actual gameplay additions
and the game really can never be completely inclusive in first place so where does it stop why are certain cultures more represented than others and why some of them have to be paid for some not and so forth
also im just tired of ea patting their backs and throwing a big marketing party for being so inclusive and woke after every smallest addition so maybe that is why it frustrates me
+ idk i guess i just don't really think things like clothes and text changes and new food items are that important changes and id rather see something else
+ they really need to stop with those english text items in the game at least put it in simlish dang it
I guess i just wish they were focusing more on gameplay. for everyone.
I like the aim but not the execution - Its something I want but want it done differently
I think, too, that it has become a double-edged sword to make general promises and assurances to the community about inclusivity and representation because every player is going to have their own idea of what that would look like and it's never going to be the same for everyone. I'm not saying they shouldn't make an attempt to add more diversity and put in what they can, but that should never have been announced as the focus to begin with. To make a general small statement that's a little lighter like, "As a development team of the simulation genre, we're inspired by many people and many cultures in the world and we'd like to incorporate hints of those influences in the game sometime in the future", and leave it at that, so there's not so much hyped expectation about specifics, would have been safer and more logical. Or, you know, don't say it at all and just add those things into the game without any announcements and let players be surprised.
It's like, now the devs are stuck chasing a runaway train that's headed for a broken bridge and no matter what they do it won't be enough. Meanwhile, the gameplay still needs catching up but is going to constantly be slowed by the need for idealistic (and often unrealistic) demands.
It's also likely that it's almost always going to be the loudest who get catered to, which worries me because the loudest are quite often the most radical with the least amount of wisdom, but their bullyish behavior unfortunately influences others and I've never been a fan of the internet echo chambers. I just want the game to be a game again, a work of fiction and fantasy that resembles life but doesn't profess to actually represent it.
It's also likely that it's almost always going to be the loudest who get catered to, which worries me because the loudest are quite often the most radical with the least amount of wisdom, but their bullyish behavior unfortunately influences others and I've never been a fan of the internet echo chambers. I just want the game to be a game again, a work of fiction and fantasy that resembles life but doesn't profess to actually represent it.
I think this makes it messy too. Then it kinda become a popularity contest of sorts of who gets the opportunity to be represented first if at all. Not to mention that kind of attitude you said that sometimes comes with this topic (aggressive or holier than thou).
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
It's also likely that it's almost always going to be the loudest who get catered to, which worries me because the loudest are quite often the most radical with the least amount of wisdom, but their bullyish behavior unfortunately influences others and I've never been a fan of the internet echo chambers. I just want the game to be a game again, a work of fiction and fantasy that resembles life but doesn't profess to actually represent it.
I think this makes it messy too. Then it kinda become a popularity contest of sorts of who gets the opportunity to be represented first if at all. Not to mention that kind of attitude you said that sometimes comes with this topic (aggressive or holier than thou).
Yeah, especially on twitter. Twitter gives you feeds depending on the topics that you are reading a lot, it doesn't matter if it's positive or negative. So you can imagine what the sims twitter feed looked like when there was a lot of of argument and debate about representation.
I like the aim but not the execution - Its something I want but want it done differently
I think that the sims franchise could have more inclusivity, I have played the sims 3 & sims 4 so I can only speak for both games. As we know, EA did speak a while ago on adding pronouns to the game which is supposedly coming out this month, I am not too sure if this is still within EA's plans but I think this could be a good way to enable more inclusivity. I adore how in TS4 you can choose in more detail how the sim presents (like if they can get pregnant and what 'gender' clothes they prefer to wear) and I am excited to see how this will be built on with future updates and potentially through to TS5. I also really liked the 'Modern Menswear' kit back but I think certain elements of this could be put in the base game. However, one thing that I would present is the use of the kit packs in terms of inclusivity. In 2021 it was really nice to see the inclusion of the 'Fashion Street' kit pack which has taken influences from different cultures, however I think this should be a feature in base game (or at least some parts of the kit could be in base game). Many people who may want to recreate themselves as sims may feel like they and their culture aren't given much representation in the game if they don't buy the pack. I think if we had more culturally diverse clothing in the base game it would be really nice to see! I am excited for the first quarterly roadmap to be implemented into TS4 with the food from different cultures, I think it will be a nice inclusion to the game and let people celebrate the world we live in. (I am sorry if any of the information regarding CAS is incorrect, I mainly play with YA sims so I am not certain on what is included for different age groups)
I like the aim but not the execution - Its something I want but want it done differently
I appreciate the effort and respect what you're trying to do however your execution could use more work, most of the time it feels lazy and half 🐸🐸🐸🐸, you released a Japanese themed pack but then removed some of the culture which started a thread about it, you tried to be inclusive towards Lactose Intolerant people by making it a trait rather than a dietary option, which started another thread about it, Pronouns is going to be interesting, while I support it, having your pronouns blatantly out of the open is going to be another issue, why wouldn't it be in the gender options instead of being beside your sim's name, your poor executions is the reason why I'm against autistic folks being represented in the Sims, as someone who has autism why would I want to be misrepresented.
I like the aim but not the execution - Its something I want but want it done differently
I think the biggest problem is it's been starting to feel like they'll only pay attention to issues with the game if it's deemed a "social issue".. Most of the biggest things people have been complaining about with regards to gameplay are still being ignored (or they'll just get a thinly veiled acknowledgment and then ignored again), yet the second people on twitter put up a fuss about something being a representation issue it'll get worked on. It seems there's not really any balance. Inclusivity is great, but it feels like they're forgetting everything else.
I like the aim but not the execution - Its something I want but want it done differently
Also when it comes to inclusivity, if they're gonna do it it needs to be extended beyond just items. We got a whole pack of great Indian inspired clothes, but you can't properly represent being Indian as none of the worlds resemble India and there's no gameplay inspired by Indian culture, so all you can really play as is an Indian-American family. Same with the middle east, we have some great middle eastern items, but where are middle eastern sims going to live? Willow Creek? If they're gonna push so hard for representation, we need worlds and gameplay inspired by other countries too so people can actually represent their lives.
I think the biggest problem is it's been starting to feel like they'll only pay attention to issues with the game if it's deemed a "social issue".. Most of the biggest things people have been complaining about with regards to gameplay are still being ignored (or they'll just get a thinly veiled acknowledgment and then ignored again), yet the second people on twitter put up a fuss about something being a representation issue it'll get worked on. It seems there's not really any balance. Inclusivity is great, but it feels like they're forgetting everything else.
Which is sad too because it can give the impression if you're loud and aggressive enough thats the only way you'll be noticed and a change being made. Which isnt always true. But can feel that way. Also if the team is already focused in a certain direction, it wont change course just to benefit a smaller group of people theyre not interested in profiting from. By this I mean Simmers like me who want changes made to the core of Sims 4 and less focus on representation for the time being. Id rather energy be spent on gameplay and systems.
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
I like the aim but not the execution - Its something I want but want it done differently
I like the idea of Sims 4 being inclusive, but EA/Maxis also needs to focus on more gameplay objects as well. It would'nt be fun if I made inclusive Sims that had practically nothing to do. No pool tables...no tennis courts...no video game arcades...no movie theeaters...no laundromats...no multi-purpose community lots. I want more types of gameplay for my Sims. I want to see a cultural Sim meet up with a disabled Sim and have fun playing different kinds of arcade machines(like pinball,skeeball,etc). I want to see a Pacific Islander Sim playing tennis with a Native American Sim. I want to see a cane-using Sim going to the movies with a wheelchair-bound Sim.
Please focus on new kinds of gameplay objects as well as being inclusive,EA.
I like the execution but not the aim - Its not something I want but I appreciate the efforts
I never added my own answer and I selected the wrong option! Mine is this: I neither like the execution and its aim - Its not something I want and the executions has been unsatisfactory
A complicated answer. I love diversity in culture, and I would like as many people to customize as much as they want to. What I don't like is the critical, exacting way sometimes this is done or too closely related to real life that people take additions or subtractions very personally. It being more generic is the way to go. Of course I do want some things to take inspiration from real life (for example I'm always an advocate for more coily/black hair added and I'd really love a Chinese inspired world) and some things from real life should be represented in-game, but I don't want it to be a competition. And if you will say you're inclusive, be inclusive to everyone. Not just who you want to be inclusive to. And let Simmers decide how they'll play their own game. Keep things "Sim" related to keep it off real world topics, social issues or political issues. Just take inspiration. Or if it is to be more literal, let simmers influence how literal it is in their game.
I'd personally really love a "Culture" tool. Imagine if you can create your own world/neighborhood and design it's culture, climate, and so on.
You can choose way sims greet eachother - do they kiss on cheek? Wave? Bow? Do a chicken dance?
Do they follow a faith? - if yes, do Sims read from a holy book? Do they visit special lots? Would they pray? Dance? etc
Do they have a traditional wear - what does it look like? You get to design it! Add in your own textures, patterns, shapes etc using presets or downloaded ones.
What celebrations do they recognize? What is the culture's favorite foods? etc
Using a big system like this, and your sim can be apart of that cultural and others if you choose to, could be so huge. There are systems like this in other games (Like the rimworld ideology update, can be mixed with serious or silly things). You can design how your world behaves and acts.
But besides things like that, I think for myself Sims 4 is not a game designed for me. I really need personality to be huge in a Sims game for me and it's just not like that for Sims 4. I tried to get a #FixThePersonalities started but didn't go anywhere and I don't think they'll ever fully change the system. That's my hangup for Sims 4 so I can never spend the time on it I do on other games. I think they should focus on bringing main systems and gameplay that people have wanted, then maybe focus on identities/rep.
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
I like the execution but not the aim - Its not something I want but I appreciate the efforts
It has been difficult lately to sum up how I feel about the whole thing.
It's an admirable thing what you are doing Maxis, but your resources are limited, they seem even more limited lately. A game development studio should strive towards creating a good game.
I know that the counterargument to that is that you still are. But are you really? How much will representation influence the hard decisions when you are deciding what content to make?
Can we get good representation and other things that people want like werewolves, moving babies or generations with limited resources? These things require a lot of development.
Those are difficult decisions to make, but that's what you do in game development, and you are a game development studio.
I don't doubt that what you are doing is admirable Maxis, but I also believe that you are making things more difficult if the goal is to make the Sims4 a good game with content that everyone wants.
I neither like the execution and its aim - Its not something I want and the executions has been unsatisfactory
Just look around. People have to walk on eggshells to offer feedback on features added to an almost 8 years old game. Yet they are put on the spotlight or questioned on why they simply won't accept it. I could have simply not bought the game if I didn't like those changes. But again this is an almost 8 years old game. I'm invested in my sims as much as anyone else, so I'm not walking away.
I use cc for hair, skintones, clothes, etc. Nothing wrong in asking for more but I don't really care for it. If anything I'd like for all BG hairstyles to be updated. But lately that's all the game seems to offer. New hair and clothes per demand.
Just look around. People have to walk on eggshells to offer feedback on features added to an almost 8 years old game. Yet they are put on the spotlight or questioned on why they simply won't accept it. I could have simply not bought the game if I didn't like those changes. But again this is an almost 8 years old game. I'm invested in my sims as much as anyone else, so I'm not walking away.
I use cc for hair, skintones, clothes, etc. Nothing wrong in asking for more but I don't really care for it. If anything I'd like for all BG hairstyles to be updated. But lately that's all the game seems to offer. New hair and clothes per demand.
I actually forgot to mention that the Black Simmer Community wants more Representation, that 1 hairstyle from university ain't going to cut it.
I like the aim & execution of the goal - It is helpful and both are done well
In my controversial opinion, if you're going to make a life simulator, you need to give players the ability to simulate as many different walks of life as possible. Customizable pronouns are literally the LEAST EA can do and shouldn't be the only goal post. More non-CC curly/coily/natural hair when?
Comments
Hmmm….
Well…..
Ehhr…
Uhmm….🤔
See…we’re talking about a life simulator here. There’s no way you cannot NOT represent or include things that reflect real life because we as a bunch of emotional human beans will always be on the lookout for something that we can relate to. We’re a bit annoying that way.
This is why I believe an interesting and fun life simulator like the sims should aim for inclusivity and representation by giving the player the tools to create anything they want or feel they need without being too specific.
I personally have a huge dislike for literal representation of (sub) cultural / religious behavior and items (this is where owning a pc and custom content could play a significant role) BUT I always appreciate gameplay and worlds and architecture and objects that merely suggest something from - or is inspired by- a particular region / culture in the world.
Don’t take away from a player’s own imagination and creativity. Support it. Encourage it.
For example, CAS is a wonderful feature that lets us play with genetics and anything else that healthy humans are BORN with or develop in their lifetime. Therefore I appreciate the addition of more skintones and natural hair colors and textures only because I want my characters to look as versatile as the peoples around me. This only makes sense.
However, the sims who belong to minority groups -e.g. occults and somewhat hairy male sims- deserve the same attention since they are also part of this game. 😇
I love attire that is inspired by cultural, historical and modern fashion. Same goes for worlds. Geography, climate, and again, gameplay that suggests culture related activities -such as eating with chopsticks or simply a fork- is always welcome. Wait a sec…do sims eat their soup with a fork too? 🤔
It doesn’t matter. With food recipes being the rule to the exception, I just feel uncomfortable with anything too “Real Life Literal” added to this game. I repeat, game. Not “real life”. Game.
Say for example we were to get kilts inspired by Scotland, which would be great by the way, yes? Scott-ish kilts?
The moment you try and be literal about them kilts: “Now folks to celebrate Scottish inclusion, we want you to know that this tartan with these colors and that pattern and these socks belongs to such and such Clan”…you gonna ask for heaps, no, Highlands of trouble. Trouble with about 480 + Scottish clans you failed to include. Clash of Clans.
I would be very unimpressed by such literal representation, plus, who cares about Scottish families? I certainly don’t. I want to create my own clans. And don’t bite my head off you Scots! I’m only yer big aul pesky brother from across the mire AArr. 😘
Anyhoo, speaking of clash of clans, something similar happened with the addition of pride flags and slogans. One flag was missing, BAM! Bird poo all over social media aka Twitter Storm. Funny thing is, there is already enough decoration in the game to celebrate some of these specific communities. Why so literal? You offer folks a finger, they want the entire arm -make that body- that belongs to that finger.
But whoever complained, was spot-on! You either do it right, or you don’t do it at all. There can’t be room for mistakes. That’s part of the issue.
And with this kind of letter-for -letter, real world symbolism….there are too many unintentional mistakes to be made. Waste of time and too stressful on the dev team. Seriously. It puts the game in danger of feeling one sided and political.
Why not keep it light and avoid Social Media Sharknadoes? This is already difficult enough considering the fact that we all live on Cancel Culture Planet, but It’s the only bad weather you could possibly stop from happening.
As others suggest, improve the game tools and systems so the ideas and ideals you stand for actually make sense.
Add an attraction system; work on the Ai; give us a couple more sliders; add a skin detail brush and a bodyhair menu ; fix the deformed clothing on certain frames; stop the Nancy Landgraab invasions of every single friggin’ world if I choose so and let some of my sims NOT HAVE A DARN SMERT PHONE DARNITT!!!
Etcetera.
Give us more options and improve the basics!
In my opinion slapping all these woke bandaids onto the game does not improve anything and will only cause more cases of the notorious “ I Feel Left Out “ syndrome. Oh Yawn and where’s the fun in that?
Just a sec…
Oh no……my sim kid wants me to eliminate the Cthulhu that lives under her bed. I can see it right there. IT’S GOT TENTACLES FOR HEAVEN’s SAKE!! 😱
K Gotta go, CU later. And thanks.
For disability representation I want superheroes that give Sims special abilities like X-Ray vision, rocket wheelchair, flame thrower cane, echolocation hearing, etc. Seeing superheroes like Spiderman that were just underdog people given strengths and abilities to get through rough times helped me while growing up. Probably why I relate to supernaturals too is researching them going back to real health conditions some of them I faced growing up helped as well such as feeling like a mermaid not being able to walk some days and well having epilepsy kids in school said I was possessed like a witch during a seizure. Probably why I don't take threats of I shouldn't play video games seriously because there was a point of my life I couldn't play them at all. So would generally be nice to have underdogs being represented in the game given that I happily am one. I wouldn't want it any other way and thankful to have my religion and the Sims and family and friends to get me through the worst of days. That is representation means to me is having those that have been historically and currently abused represented in the game one way or another and well happy to share some underdog things in common with the OP.
For work this is Boli which include the laws all employees must follow regardless of where they are. Jobs tend to check social media too so pretty much discrimination towards any of the protected classes is discrimination towards all so what I follow in addition to the golden rule of course. https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/Pages/discrimination-at-work.aspx
I wouldn't use the words "helpful or harmful". I would use the word "changed". The sims series, beginning with Sims 1, used to have an enormous amount of gameplay. Silly and absurd things happened. There was a great deal of wildly fun stuff. And you played the game you wanted to play - with sims that were just sims. No representation of anyone. Just made-up characters who only represented themselves. Sure there were archtypes. This is common when storytelling is involved. But you played the game using the characters, and the focus was on the "playing".
Now it is a dollhouse. Nothing wrong with having an inclusive dollhouse. But once you start marketing your game as " create yourself and live your life", then you owe it to everyone to make sure they can make themselves and live the virtual life that they want to live. So, if the game fails, on any level, to offer the tools to create everyone who plays it, the game can be branded as racist, sexist, ageist, ableist, anti- this, pro-that, etcetera, etcetera.
There is no walking back from this type of marketing. Instead of focusing on gameplay, the focus must now be on meeting the expectations created by marketing. "Does this game allow myself and my life to be represented with the same equity that it allows everyone else to be represented?" The answer will always be "no". There is only so much that can be created and added at any one time. It will never be equal portions for all peoples. There will always be a level of disappointment for the group who was not included in this batch or this update. And because of the marketing, that disappointment will always be taken deeply personal.
I think that the choice to market the game with the focus on "creating your simself" instead of focusing on "ack! those sims put too much soap in the washing machine and now the laundry room floor is covered in bubbles!" has put this game into a very narrow area, and there is no getting out of it. I think this has caused the gameplay to suffer.
But for those who like the dollhouse... they have the right to expect what was marketed to them.
Wow! You said exactly what I feel but couldn't figure out how to say it without it seeming like I was uncaring or had little interest for every person to be represented in the game.
I agree with everything you've said. Gone are the days when it was just a game and you controlled the lives of these little computer generated beings. Now there's very little actual gameplay being developed and the focus is on how you can represent your simself visually.
And I also feel like there's no going back. What they've started with TS4 will continue into any future iteration of The Sims. Maybe the next game should be named "The Virtuals" instead of The Sims.
This has covered my exact feelings without me having to use words. 😌
I agree
because yes surely inclusivity is lovely and i don't mind having more beautiful cultures represented in the game and it was really nice when they added hairs and skintones cause well yeah the selection was quite small
but at the same time it really frustrates me when they keep pushing visual additions over actual gameplay additions
and the game really can never be completely inclusive in first place so where does it stop why are certain cultures more represented than others and why some of them have to be paid for some not and so forth
also im just tired of ea patting their backs and throwing a big marketing party for being so inclusive and woke after every smallest addition so maybe that is why it frustrates me
+ idk i guess i just don't really think things like clothes and text changes and new food items are that important changes and id rather see something else
+ they really need to stop with those english text items in the game at least put it in simlish dang it
I guess i just wish they were focusing more on gameplay. for everyone.
🏡 Gallery 📖 Stories 🌍 World Project 🥔 MOD/CC Free
It's like, now the devs are stuck chasing a runaway train that's headed for a broken bridge and no matter what they do it won't be enough. Meanwhile, the gameplay still needs catching up but is going to constantly be slowed by the need for idealistic (and often unrealistic) demands.
It's also likely that it's almost always going to be the loudest who get catered to, which worries me because the loudest are quite often the most radical with the least amount of wisdom, but their bullyish behavior unfortunately influences others and I've never been a fan of the internet echo chambers. I just want the game to be a game again, a work of fiction and fantasy that resembles life but doesn't profess to actually represent it.
I think this makes it messy too. Then it kinda become a popularity contest of sorts of who gets the opportunity to be represented first if at all. Not to mention that kind of attitude you said that sometimes comes with this topic (aggressive or holier than thou).
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
However, it does need to be executed nicely. (I’m thinking of the blocky female/feminine meshes on male bodies, for example.)
Still, I like that The Sims is still a progressive game, and I can feel comfortable knowing that everyone is welcome.
(She/her)
Yeah, especially on twitter. Twitter gives you feeds depending on the topics that you are reading a lot, it doesn't matter if it's positive or negative. So you can imagine what the sims twitter feed looked like when there was a lot of of argument and debate about representation.
As we know, EA did speak a while ago on adding pronouns to the game which is supposedly coming out this month, I am not too sure if this is still within EA's plans but I think this could be a good way to enable more inclusivity. I adore how in TS4 you can choose in more detail how the sim presents (like if they can get pregnant and what 'gender' clothes they prefer to wear) and I am excited to see how this will be built on with future updates and potentially through to TS5. I also really liked the 'Modern Menswear' kit back but I think certain elements of this could be put in the base game.
However, one thing that I would present is the use of the kit packs in terms of inclusivity. In 2021 it was really nice to see the inclusion of the 'Fashion Street' kit pack which has taken influences from different cultures, however I think this should be a feature in base game (or at least some parts of the kit could be in base game). Many people who may want to recreate themselves as sims may feel like they and their culture aren't given much representation in the game if they don't buy the pack. I think if we had more culturally diverse clothing in the base game it would be really nice to see!
I am excited for the first quarterly roadmap to be implemented into TS4 with the food from different cultures, I think it will be a nice inclusion to the game and let people celebrate the world we live in.
(I am sorry if any of the information regarding CAS is incorrect, I mainly play with YA sims so I am not certain on what is included for different age groups)
Which is sad too because it can give the impression if you're loud and aggressive enough thats the only way you'll be noticed and a change being made. Which isnt always true. But can feel that way. Also if the team is already focused in a certain direction, it wont change course just to benefit a smaller group of people theyre not interested in profiting from. By this I mean Simmers like me who want changes made to the core of Sims 4 and less focus on representation for the time being. Id rather energy be spent on gameplay and systems.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
Please focus on new kinds of gameplay objects as well as being inclusive,EA.
I neither like the execution and its aim - Its not something I want and the executions has been unsatisfactory
A complicated answer. I love diversity in culture, and I would like as many people to customize as much as they want to. What I don't like is the critical, exacting way sometimes this is done or too closely related to real life that people take additions or subtractions very personally. It being more generic is the way to go. Of course I do want some things to take inspiration from real life (for example I'm always an advocate for more coily/black hair added and I'd really love a Chinese inspired world) and some things from real life should be represented in-game, but I don't want it to be a competition. And if you will say you're inclusive, be inclusive to everyone. Not just who you want to be inclusive to. And let Simmers decide how they'll play their own game. Keep things "Sim" related to keep it off real world topics, social issues or political issues. Just take inspiration. Or if it is to be more literal, let simmers influence how literal it is in their game.
I'd personally really love a "Culture" tool. Imagine if you can create your own world/neighborhood and design it's culture, climate, and so on.
You can choose way sims greet eachother - do they kiss on cheek? Wave? Bow? Do a chicken dance?
Do they follow a faith? - if yes, do Sims read from a holy book? Do they visit special lots? Would they pray? Dance? etc
Do they have a traditional wear - what does it look like? You get to design it! Add in your own textures, patterns, shapes etc using presets or downloaded ones.
What celebrations do they recognize? What is the culture's favorite foods? etc
Using a big system like this, and your sim can be apart of that cultural and others if you choose to, could be so huge. There are systems like this in other games (Like the rimworld ideology update, can be mixed with serious or silly things). You can design how your world behaves and acts.
But besides things like that, I think for myself Sims 4 is not a game designed for me. I really need personality to be huge in a Sims game for me and it's just not like that for Sims 4. I tried to get a #FixThePersonalities started but didn't go anywhere and I don't think they'll ever fully change the system. That's my hangup for Sims 4 so I can never spend the time on it I do on other games. I think they should focus on bringing main systems and gameplay that people have wanted, then maybe focus on identities/rep.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
It's an admirable thing what you are doing Maxis, but your resources are limited, they seem even more limited lately. A game development studio should strive towards creating a good game.
I know that the counterargument to that is that you still are. But are you really? How much will representation influence the hard decisions when you are deciding what content to make?
Can we get good representation and other things that people want like werewolves, moving babies or generations with limited resources? These things require a lot of development.
Those are difficult decisions to make, but that's what you do in game development, and you are a game development studio.
I don't doubt that what you are doing is admirable Maxis, but I also believe that you are making things more difficult if the goal is to make the Sims4 a good game with content that everyone wants.
I use cc for hair, skintones, clothes, etc. Nothing wrong in asking for more but I don't really care for it. If anything I'd like for all BG hairstyles to be updated. But lately that's all the game seems to offer. New hair and clothes per demand.
I actually forgot to mention that the Black Simmer Community wants more Representation, that 1 hairstyle from university ain't going to cut it.