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The Sims 4 focused aim & execution on inclusivity /representation - helpful or harmful?
StrawberryYogurt
Posts: 2,799 Member
(If this thread cannot exist pls due to theme or comments, pls delete, i dunno if it will straddle too close to any rulebreaking depending on content or attitude in comments. Please be respectful of all perspectives and worldviews. Everyone is entitled to how they feel, but everyone is also entitled to respect)
Main Poll Question:
Do you think the Sims 4's execution & aim of being more 'inclusive' has been moreso helpful or harmful to the game/series as a whole?
°°°
Possible Bonus Questions if you leave a comment (pick as few or many as u want):
In what ways has the execution of this goal been done well? In what ways has it been done poorly?
Do you think the focus on inclusivity/representation is something you're interested in seeing being more developed or explored in the game?
What areas of inclusivity or representation do you feel are being left out, if any?
Are there other goals for the series you think requires more focus?
Is representation/inclusivity as a priority or necessity for you as a player?
Do you think the Sims series needs a focus on representation in the game as whole?
Do you feel like previous iterations have done well or poorly in this goal?
In any future systems or updates centering inclusivity or representation, what would you like to see done as far as features or execution of any features?
As a disclaimer:
I am not saying whether whatever specific additons are inherently helpful or harmful (example: "I dont like X hair/clothes that belongs to X minority group") I am not talking about specific additions or content. I am talking about a general focus or direction of what the team considers representation & inclusivity and if the updates or systems instituted have left you satisfied or unsatisfied.
---
I know some people may consider a 'both' or 'other' option but there is no multiselect and added no other for sake of clarity. If your response truly doesnt fit in a poll option you can choose not to vote.
Main Poll Question:
Do you think the Sims 4's execution & aim of being more 'inclusive' has been moreso helpful or harmful to the game/series as a whole?
°°°
Possible Bonus Questions if you leave a comment (pick as few or many as u want):
In what ways has the execution of this goal been done well? In what ways has it been done poorly?
Do you think the focus on inclusivity/representation is something you're interested in seeing being more developed or explored in the game?
What areas of inclusivity or representation do you feel are being left out, if any?
Are there other goals for the series you think requires more focus?
Is representation/inclusivity as a priority or necessity for you as a player?
Do you think the Sims series needs a focus on representation in the game as whole?
Do you feel like previous iterations have done well or poorly in this goal?
In any future systems or updates centering inclusivity or representation, what would you like to see done as far as features or execution of any features?
As a disclaimer:
I am not saying whether whatever specific additons are inherently helpful or harmful (example: "I dont like X hair/clothes that belongs to X minority group") I am not talking about specific additions or content. I am talking about a general focus or direction of what the team considers representation & inclusivity and if the updates or systems instituted have left you satisfied or unsatisfied.
---
I know some people may consider a 'both' or 'other' option but there is no multiselect and added no other for sake of clarity. If your response truly doesnt fit in a poll option you can choose not to vote.
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
The Sims 4 focused aim & execution on inclusivity /representation - helpful or harmful? 140 votes
I like the aim & execution of the goal - It is helpful and both are done well
11%
16 votes
I like the aim but not the execution - Its something I want but want it done differently
54%
76 votes
I like the execution but not the aim - Its not something I want but I appreciate the efforts
7%
11 votes
I neither like the execution and its aim - Its not something I want and the executions has been unsatisfactory
26%
0
Comments
I'm not against inclusivity /representation but I am also not very interested in it... so when that becomes Maxis focus, in their marketing and in terms of the content that they make, then I am not sure how to feel to be honest.
I'm not sure if "Harmful" is the word that I would use, but it is a direction that I don't feel very strongly about, and thus, I don't feel very strongly about the sims 4 when that is it's focus.
I can be happy for other people, but in the end there are other things that I would have wanted for the sims4 too.
Because I can't; I keep all sigs turned off.
I'm going to let this stay, you presented your argument for the thread in a thoughtful, open-minded way and I see no reason to remove it.
As for the comment section, I will offer a word of caution:
Thinly veiled sexist, racist or bigoted replies of any kind are still sexist, racist and bigoted. They will not be tolerated and I will swing the ban hammer at you.
I also don't like the fact that EA is focused on CAS in 90% to implement the inclusivity, where BB items are also a part of culture. For example, we don't have european windows, kitchen sets (especially build-in), japanise beds (futon), kettles ect.
Finally I'm against to implement paid content into the base game. We have a lot of CC creators if EA doesn't have enough time to make hairstyles, makeup or clothing. Maybe it is better to make a collaboration instead of reimplement a content?
They've added:
So EA's idea of being more inclusive is to add things that visually represent different cultures/lifestyles, which again, I'm all for, but in the end, these things don't make the actual game play any better because of the that "inclusiveness" regardless of the sims you've created.
Yes, some people can definitely make their sim-self and feel more represented in TS4 than in past games, but all of the sims act the same, they will still be attracted to any sim. There is no way to set the gender preference of these sims you've created.
So, has the inclusivity really changed anything beyond the visuals?
It doesn't change the depth of gameplay, but it certainly gives the surface of things more varied looks.
In general, I do find it eyeroll worthy when a corporation tries too hard to market off of inclusivity but this is a game where you're meant to simulate life and its diverse aspects - so it makes sense. But there are many things I do feel like it's a bit too late to implement at this point. I'm sure the devs fully intend to keep making content for the game as long as they can, but I'm sure the moment Sims 4 stops making enough money it's going to be dropped like a hot potato--no matter what state it's in.
I really enjoyed the "gender customization and cross-dressing" patch, but to be absolutely honest; the cross dressing (or wearing clothes not made for the frame that it was designed for) is an absolute mess and while initially I gave it a pass cause I felt it was something they could tweak later down the line--but they never did. I adore the idea behind the patch but it's so messy that it's hard to appreciate it. And at times it's straight up annoying because a lot of items have been placed in the wrong fashion tag/category (it fits the style for sure but not the sim's frames) so you can't ignore it completely. That being said, I would never get rid of it--but it definitely needs improving or should've been implimented differently. I'm just not sure how that would be done.
I feel like a lot of the inclusivity focus is centered around CAS mostly cause a lot of the game is centered around CAS (and it is one of its strongest attributes + cheaper/easier to produce regularly then gameplay which is constantly breaking). Which isn't bad, but ultimately the other aspects of the game fall to the wayside because they end up getting neglected.
Ultimately, it's impossible to represent everyone or appeal to everyone, but you try to appeal to as many as you can. What's funny to me cause I personally find this game to be the least US-centric compared to it's past iterations, but there are many people who feel that the game is still too US-centric (which I'm not denying if it is or isn't). People have different views on what is needed in a game and so I feel like it ultimately will boil down to a battle of opinions.
But on a side note, I have to wonder if the model of the Sims' franchise is even realistic/feasible at this point. It's always been a glitchy series but now we're getting broken packs on release or packs break in like 1-2 months after release. I can't help but wonder if it's something that is due to how the Sims 4 is built/complicated code or if it's the "release a pack every couple months" business model that is the source of the problem. Part of me wonders if it would be healthier to have the Sims Store from Sims 3 instead but it's possible that it may not make a difference. Can't say for sure what the answer is, but I hope they figure it out by Sims 5 and are properly prepared this time because it doesn't matter what kind of game they make -- if they can't keep it operable no one is gonna want to play it.
They probably will have a store model with the Sims 5. Sims 4 was originally going to be a MMO until SimCity servers started failing because they were not built strong enough to handle the traffic of the community so they turned SimCity into a mobile game with a store instead. Sims has two mobile store model games out right now with Sims Freeplay and the Sims Mobile, so if you like that model check those games out and how they push the store especially for limited events.
This planet has over a hundred distinct cultures and several hundred people groups. No way can this amount be represented. Simple example: I live in New England, have been to California several times, often for long periods, courtesy of Uncle Sam's Canoe Club (US Navy). Both places are in the USA, but in terms of culture they may as well be in different countries. Hawaii is different than both of them.
Unless someone of a culture/people group is involved with the process and has 'this works, this doesn't' decision making authority mistakes will happen and someone, quite possibly many, will be hurt/offended/disappointed.
Not every culture/people group is well received by others. It is a sad fact that there are divisions, animosities, and fears that go back for centuries. This is a broken world, which means EA needs to tread carefully. The uproar in the forums a few years ago over some Muslim related content is a case in point.
A good idea, but in attempting to please everybody EA is in danger of pleasing nobody.
When it comes to execution, I haven't been following the game enough to say whether I think what has been done, has been done well or poorly. Most of the elements I am familiar with I think have been handled fairly well, but there's lots I don't know about or haven't experienced.
What I can say is that this is another reason I want to see a new Sims game, so it can plan for certain things from the beginning. As mentioned, allowing everyone to use all clothing was a great choice. Frankly, a lot of fashion is ambiguous even traditionally so it's nice to put the options in the hands of the player. In a sandboxy game like the Sims especially, I will always say that more options are better pretty much no matter the context. The problem is that, since this wasn't planned from the start, the built-in body shape of some clothing makes them hard to use after all. I think many of these ideas will be perpetually hamstrung as long as they're being hot-glued on after the fact.
When it comes to custom gender settings, I ended up being kind of disappointed. A lot of the clothing items are still unusable, even the ones that have come out after custom genders were implemented. It ended up feeling like a last minute decision that they didn't really follow through on improving or working with. Also, you still can't really make non-binary characters, since the game still assigns your sims as male or female (as far as I've noticed, anyway).
All this rambling to say, I feel like all of the diversity in the Sims 4 feels kind of shallow. I've suspected this from the beginning, but I'm assuming that EA is really only adding all of this "diversity" for brownie points. More diversity ingame is objectively good, and it's not done exactly poorly in the Sims, but I wish they'd put more time into it instead of slapping features on last-minute or locking it behind a paywall and calling a diversity win.
Tales From The Myst
The Blue Moon Jukebox
How about simmers who like to play occult families? They exist and I am one of them. The biggest let down in realm of magic for me was the complete lack of magic options for child spellcasters. The opposite of occult gameplay is realism, not family.
I guess this mainly proves that it is impossible to please everyone. So many different people have so many different ways to play.
Examples
I love the Spanish culture and during Hispanic Heritage month we got all these foods to make, then Christmas we added two more with the coquito and the other food item. During Pride month there was some sort of parade and I think so clothing unless that was before. During black history month we got a shout out to black youtubers like WHAT?!?! Now paid for hairs added to the base game. I would like some soul food this February please and thanks. Where are the shrimp and grits, collard greens, peach cobbler, fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, chicken and waffles, etc
I thought it was a great idea to have the lactose intolerant trait added. Some people thought it was a problem. As I happen to be lactose intolerant, I was pretty happy with it. So now adding a simple allergy is a problem, yet people are asking for disabilities like WHAT?!?! Good luck with the crowd on that one EA.
Christmas delivery I wish would have included another tree that could have been decorated with new decorations and multicolored lights, Hanukkah items and Kwanzaa. I do appreciate the items we got but another example of how things are not equal across the board.
Anyway, I truly believe they are trying, but I feel like Pandora's box has been opened and can never be closed. They are never going to be able to please everyone.
I was referencing people who prefer family packs to occult packs. My point stands.
Tales From The Myst
The Blue Moon Jukebox
My main issue is that it feels like representation is their main priority, over actual gameplay. Diversity is good (and good for publicity), but it shouldn't be the main focus. While I'm sure it's not the case, it feels like the marketing and the game think that's what's most important. But we're here to play a game, not to celebrate diversity. Yes, diversity can be part of gameplay. An aspect, a small aspect, that's usually confined to CAS and BB.
The Sims 4 hasn't introduced a new musical instrument since 2017
Female Simmer from Australia (she/her)
I had one of my Sims marry the Grim Reaper & now they have a lot of kids.
I feel like most of the content doesn't even include the diversity that lives in Maxis' own backyard. And more of a bubble. And I agree with others, I have always felt content should be a choice, and patched content should never be forced on any player if that is not something they want. Diversity of thought is much more important in my world than 'visuals'. A particular hairstyle and or clothing does not make a person but their thoughts and beliefs and practices so I would have liked to have seen more diversity in what makes us all unique.
I wish the focus would return to gameplay rather than identity representation, more traits, more diverse emotions, more individuality.
That said, I do love all of the cultural additions to CAS and varieties of hair styles, clothing and textures. For the first time in Sims history I was able to make a Sim self without CC and have actually been playing a CC free game for several years because the general CAS selection is beautiful, despite the areas that need some filling in *cough* masculine male designs and body hair *cough*.