I totally get where you're coming from. I take my breaks also thought I won't go permanently. I always comeback because I love reading I love the information here and I LOVE the sims. And twitter won't let people have a discussion.
It's been a bit quiet lately but wait until the next pack is announced. The negativity will skyrocket again. And I never said it out loud because I don't want anyone to feel bad or offended but I often thought to myself if I were a Dev I would not come here either.
I know this game has it's flaws and there are many things I would like to see changed or improved. However, everyone knows by now that sims 4 was a scrapped online game originally which means they are now working with limitations they normally wouldn't have. And in my opinion the team works hard to bring us the best they can, and make us happy according to the constraints of their budgets, time, and limitations.
I noticed their communication with everyone has dropped dramatically over the years and the new community manager frost, way of communication seems to be silence.
But I was digging into the old posts here from many years ago when the Devs were active here. And I was shocked how badly they were mistreated and insulted by people here.
People do not know know how to maintain a professional businesses relationship and treat eachother with respect rather you are happy with something or not. Is it that hard to express you're Dissapointment politely or to be mindful of the feelings of others? That's why the team stopped communicating, it was a mess. So I don't fault them for being silent.
There are a lot of nice people here and everything. I love all of you guys/girls even the negative ones. It can be fun even to share our frustrations because we all know the sims 4 can take you there 🤣🤣🤣But for me the negativity and straight up insults and demands I have seen at times just feels overwhelming and unwelcoming.
I am saying that I want feed back but why would I respond if I'm unappreciated?
Because you're a working adult and not a child with an ego problem.
As a corporation you don't respond the same as an individual would anyway and would most definitely not respond to every bit of feedback that you receive, however general posts about issues brought up by the community from developers is normal and expected communication.
Here is a Gwent thread. Recently CD Project Red made some changes to the game that went down really badly, to a point where their own reddit comment got downvoted 200 times. Their responce was showing the math and agreeing that some things did not work. As a responce the community continues to give feedback.
Yes, I agree completely with "however general posts about issues brought up by the community from developers is normal and expected communication." the key here is "general posts," not people who only want to complain and insult the company that you represent.
Without reading that Gwent thread, I agree that feedback is necessary. I never once said it wasn't. So again, we agree.
But here's my favorite bit - it's not The Sims developers making an issue out of this forum, it is you. Someone not affiliated with the company one bit.
You're right. Because I happen to love the Sims. I loved TS3 and I love TS4. I defend what I love. Do I have to? No. I could just sit back and watch people badmouth and insult something that I happen to enjoy and watch them infect other people with their misery or I can speak up. Is it wrong to speak up for something you believe in? Is it wrong to voice your opinion? Nope, if so, we wouldn't be having this conversation because there were be no allowance for the complaints in the first place. So yep, I'm being vocal because if others can complain about the game I can complain about them. But see, this is what we need. What you and I are doing right here, debate. Not ramped up emotions that cloud logic and reason, debate. Sharing of opinions and discussions. This is constructive. Now, let's say I throw all reason out the window and just started insulting you as most of these complainers do to the devs, Maxis and EA. How would you handle that?
Again the point appears to be missed. I work for a massive corporation. Do you honestly think that losing 1-2% of our customers is going to hurt out bottom line?
Do you think the point of a business is to break even? Or is it to generate as much profit as possible?
Of course the company wants to make maximum profit. However, you can't please everybody so some people are simply never going to be satisfied. Those people sadly have to be written off at some point. It's a sad reality. If you honestly know that you've done the best you an do with the tools at your disposal and still can't satisfy them, what else can you do?
I simply said if you want X to happen, then try Y.
But you can't say that because that would imply that this will actually happen. And considering that EA is keeping communications with the forums to the minimum and have been for a very long time, that's not going to happen.
First of all, let me quote you in that same paragraph, "But you can't say that..." Again, going back to the fly quote. Are you saying that people that using that saying are speaking on behalf of the fly population? I am not saying, nor implying that it will happen. I am simply stating that it's easier to get what you want with kindness than with hostility.
I totally get where you're coming from. I take my breaks also thought I won't go permanently. I always comeback because I love reading I love the information here and I LOVE the sims. And twitter won't let people have a discussion.
It's been a bit quiet lately but wait until the next pack is announced. The negativity will skyrocket again. And I never said it out loud because I don't want anyone to feel bad or offended but I often thought to myself if I were a Dev I would not come here either.
I know this game has it's flaws and there are many things I would like to see changed or improved. However, everyone knows by now that sims 4 was a scrapped online game originally which means they are now working with limitations they normally wouldn't have. And in my opinion the team works hard to bring us the best they can, and make us happy according to the constraints of their budgets, time, and limitations.
I noticed their communication with everyone has dropped dramatically over the years and the new community manager frost, way of communication seems to be silence. But I was digging into the old posts here from many years ago when the Devs were active here. And I was shocked how badly they were mistreated and insulted by people here.
People do not know know how to maintain a professional businesses relationship and treat eachother with respect rather you are happy with something or not. Is it that hard to express you're Dissapointment politely or to be mindful of the feelings of others? That's why the team stopped communicating, it was a mess. So I don't fault them for being silent.
There are a lot of nice people here and everything. I love all of you guys/girls even the negative ones. It can be fun even to share our frustrations because we all know the sims 4 can take you there 🤣🤣🤣But for me the negativity and straight up insults and demands I have seen at times just feels overwhelming and unwelcoming.
Okay I got that out. 😁
Thank you! You've touched on exactly what I'm trying to say. Be nice to them and they just might start coming back again!
I'm sorry to hear that you are getting discouraged by rude posts.
While I make my own fair share of critical posts, I also try to keep balanced by also contributing to positive threads. But I believe people should always try to be respectful. I understand too, that frustration can make people a little bit snippier or lash out sometimes, as I've been guilty of the same, but I do think you have a point about there being a consistent ultra-negative push that kind of taints the forums. I've noticed also that some people get really sour and start blaming other players for a faulty game because they don't want Sims 4 to be successful if they themselves don't like it. It's one thing to state what you like/dislike and give constructive criticism and take responsibility for your personal preferences, but it's kind of asinine to take your own malcontent out on other players and start finger pointing and flinging insults at developers and throwing rude behaviors around just because you don't like a video game. I've definitely seen the kinds of posts that you speak of, and my advice would be to make liberal use of the "flag" or "report" buttons and let the moderators sort it out. They are usually quite fair about removing problematic posts or popping in to give a warning. Especially if the post derails the thread. But that's pretty much all you can do.
I think people too often forget the sage advice of, "treat others as you want to be treated". Because it's really that simple.
I'm sorry to hear that you are getting discouraged by rude posts.
While I make my own fair share of critical posts, I also try to keep balanced by also contributing to positive threads. But I believe people should always try to be respectful.
I understand too, that frustration can make people a little bit snippier or lash out sometimes, as I've been guilty of the same, but I do think you have a point about there being a consistent ultra-negative push that kind of taints the forums.
I've noticed also that some people get really sour and start blaming other players for a faulty game because they don't want Sims 4 to be successful if they themselves don't like it.
It's one thing to state what you like/dislike and give constructive criticism and take responsibility for your personal preferences, but it's kind of asinine to take your own malcontent out on other players and start finger pointing and flinging insults at developers and throwing rude behaviors around just because you don't like a video game.
I've definitely seen the kinds of posts that you speak of, and my advice would be to make liberal use of the "flag" or "report" buttons and let the moderators sort it out. They are usually quite fair about removing problematic posts or popping in to give a warning. Especially if the post derails the thread. But that's pretty much all you can do.
I think people too often forget the sage advice of, "treat others as you want to be treated". Because it's really that simple.
Very nicely stated. I hope you don't mind that I broke it up some if so, let me know and I'll gladly change it back. You've made some very good points though and I wanted to make sure they weren't missed.
We've all had our negative moments and said things that in retrospect we know we shouldn't have, or at the least should have stated differently. Nobody is blameless in that. So we all have to share the responsibility and work harder to fix ourselves so that the community as a whole can be a better place for all of us.
Yes, I agree completely with "however general posts about issues brought up by the community from developers is normal and expected communication." the key here is "general posts," not people who only want to complain and insult the company that you represent.
General posts from the developers/ company. Not the community. Are you really under impression that no other development team takes any heat?
So yep, I'm being vocal because if others can complain about the game I can complain about them.
You are trying to actively silence people that are seeking improvement of the franchise, because you dislike their tone of voice. That is effectively your post summed up.
On this forum, there's one easy way to handle that - report them. There is no profanity or insults thrown towards the developers, as that is a bannable offence. Everyone here is rather civil.
Yes, I agree completely with "however general posts about issues brought up by the community from developers is normal and expected communication." the key here is "general posts," not people who only want to complain and insult the company that you represent.
General posts from the developers/ company. Not the community. Are you really under impression that no other development team takes any heat?
Forgive me for misquoting you. I misread it. However, of course every development teams take heat. Getting feedback again is important. Also, again, it's not about the feedback. It's about the insults.
So yep, I'm being vocal because if others can complain about the game I can complain about them.
You are trying to actively silence people that are seeking improvement of the franchise, because you dislike their tone of voice. That is effectively your post summed up.
So because I too am practicing my freedom of speech in defense of the game I love, that means I'm trying to silence others? Hmm, interesting. And also, completely mischaracterized. I am not trying to silence anyone. I am just suggesting people try to practice a little civility.
On this forum, there's one easy way to handle that - report them. There is no profanity or insults thrown towards the developers, as that is a bannable offence. Everyone here is rather civil.
Assuming the "report" isn't an option though, there is the "block" option. So what I'm saying and if you read the other posts in this thread, you'll see that others have gone through the old forums and have pointed out that even when the devs did come here ago, they were treated hatefully. hmm, so why don't they come here anymore? I wonder. Perhaps they just got fed up with the annoying abuses and essentially "blocked" the entire site. Obviously, before I'm misquoted or mischaracterized again, I don't mean "block" in the sense of closing the site down. I mean it in the sense of simply putting it on their ignore list.
Yes, I agree completely with "however general posts about issues brought up by the community from developers is normal and expected communication." the key here is "general posts," not people who only want to complain and insult the company that you represent.
General posts from the developers/ company. Not the community. Are you really under impression that no other development team takes any heat?
Forgive me for misquoting you. I misread it. However, of course every development teams take heat. Getting feedback again is important. Also, again, it's not about the feedback. It's about the insults.
So yep, I'm being vocal because if others can complain about the game I can complain about them.
You are trying to actively silence people that are seeking improvement of the franchise, because you dislike their tone of voice. That is effectively your post summed up.
So because I too am practicing my freedom of speech in defense of the game I love, that means I'm trying to silence others? Hmm, interesting. And also, completely mischaracterized. I am not trying to silence anyone. I am just suggesting people try to practice a little civility.
On this forum, there's one easy way to handle that - report them. There is no profanity or insults thrown towards the developers, as that is a bannable offence. Everyone here is rather civil.
Assuming the "report" isn't an option though, there is the "block" option. So what I'm saying and if you read the other posts in this thread, you'll see that others have gone through the old forums and have pointed out that even when the devs did come here ago, they were treated hatefully. hmm, so why don't they come here anymore? I wonder. Perhaps they just got fed up with the annoying abuses and essentially "blocked" the entire site. Obviously, before I'm misquoted or mischaracterized again, I don't mean "block" in the sense of closing the site down. I mean it in the sense of simply putting it on their ignore list.
Recall if I am wrong but didn't yourself say ask why we complainers are playing? Basically be quiet and go play something else? Yeeeaahhh.
Perhaps they just got fed up with the annoying abuses and essentially "blocked" the entire site. Obviously, before I'm misquoted or mischaracterized again, I don't mean "block" in the sense of closing the site down. I mean it in the sense of simply putting it on their ignore list.
I would say do not go with this line of reasoning because you aren't doing them any favours.
Blocking out your fanbase is what companies that go down do. Companies that rise up do the exact opposite.
If you need some positive cases to study, look into No Mans Sky.
Perhaps they just got fed up with the annoying abuses and essentially "blocked" the entire site. Obviously, before I'm misquoted or mischaracterized again, I don't mean "block" in the sense of closing the site down. I mean it in the sense of simply putting it on their ignore list.
I would say do not go with this line of reasoning because you aren't doing them any favours.
Blocking out your fanbase is what companies that go down do. Companies that rise up do the exact opposite.
If you need some positive cases to study, look into No Mans Sky.
They're not blocking out their fanbase, they're blocking out just this portion of it because of the haters. They still communicate with their fans through at least twitter. So they're still gettng feedback, just not the hate from in here. That's what I understand at least. But I'd love to see them start coming back again. I don't think that's beyond the realm of possibility.
If people communicated their grievances in a mature manner, it would be different. We all need to do that. As I said, like you and I have been doing all day. So I appreciate that we've both been able to express our differences without flinging insults and letting our emotions run rampant. Thank you.
No one's... hating on the devs. The 'hate' I've seen is towards EA, the multi million dollar company that rules over Maxis like a puppeteer.
What keeps The Sims going? Money. Where does that money come from? The players. It should honestly speak for itself that the company, who only exists because of the players, should aim to keep its fans happy. Are the fans happy, if there are so many negative posts? No?
If I spend 1000+ dollars on something you'd better believe it I'd let them know if they're doing something terribly wrong. The Sims is an old game now. People have grown up with it, including me. We miss the old things, how it used to be, when everything was so much... simply put, better.
We want it to be good again. We want it to be better, because we pay for it with our money. The fans, who are literally the ones keeping the game running by giving EA money, have a right to complain. (This obviously doesn't include personal attacks of devs, but criticism of EA).
You can sit and feel bad about all the negativity... I know it gets overwhelming. But maybe it's worth giving it a shot of pondering 'why'? Is it because... people are 'whining'? You call it whining? I choose to spend my hard earned money on something that I love, something that I've loved for years. I want it to be better, I want the game to thrive, to have a good reputation. But in order for it to have that... it needs to tend to its fanbase's needs and wants.
Does it tend to the fanbase's needs and wants if there are so many negative reviews and comments?
If you pay for a car, and the steering wheel doesn't work. Do you keep silent about it because the rest of the car is amazing? Or do you 'complain' to the person you bought it from, because it's your money (money is a serious thing, do not forget that) and you want your money's worth?
Have a little... perspective. Some people choose to see everything good and turn a blind eye to the mess, and some people see what's lacking and want to improve it.
The devs are employees of EA. EA is a large corporation that markets and sells products in the form of games. And this forum is unique because we have the opportunity to voice our opinions about a game we have purchased, played, and love, hate or wish it was better than it is. This forum has been here for over twenty years and has seen it's fair share of disappointed and angry posts and threads; and I doubt any of that will change in the future. This forum is here so we can discuss the Sims franchise and give our personal opinions. We give praise when it is deserved and we become upset when certain issues come about with the game and nothing is done about those issues in a timely fashion. If EA allowed players to return a faulty game and get a refund, there would be no need for this forum at all. If the devs want to know what makes the players happy, or what the players are most disappointed with, they should visit us here a bit more often. They are professionals in their field. One does not become a professional at anything without knowing how to take criticism in stride and learn from it. And I am seeing less and less of that mindset every day.
If I purchased a faulty console, contacted the company for help but was ignored, I would be livid. I would get a refund one way or the other and that company would have no choice but to comply. That is not the case when one buys a digital copy of a game to play on any platform. Once EA has our money we are on our own. We rely on the devs to make things right. We rely on the gurus to be open and communicate with us, and give feedback to the teams. But none of that is happening. It isn't surprising to see more angry posts than happy ones right now. Given the number of players currently playing Sims4, one cannot expect everyone to have the same opinion about the game. It would be painful to see only happy chirpy posts in here. I expect to see personal opinions that give me insight into how others view this game, every new pack and update, every new idea for something I had never thought about; all of it is absorbed and carefully considered because it all matters. Everyone's personal opinion matters. Negative or not, there is always something to be learned from listening to other players.
No one's... hating on the devs. The 'hate' I've seen is towards EA, the multi million dollar company that rules over Maxis like a puppeteer.
What keeps The Sims going? Money. Where does that money come from? The players. It should honestly speak for itself that the company, who only exists because of the players, should aim to keep its fans happy. Are the fans happy, if there are so many negative posts? No?
If I spend 1000+ dollars on something you'd better believe it I'd let them know if they're doing something terribly wrong. The Sims is an old game now. People have grown up with it, including me. We miss the old things, how it used to be, when everything was so much... simply put, better.
We want it to be good again. We want it to be better, because we pay for it with our money. The fans, who are literally the ones keeping the game running by giving EA money, have a right to complain. (This obviously doesn't include personal attacks of devs, but criticism of EA).
You can sit and feel bad about all the negativity... I know it gets overwhelming. But maybe it's worth giving it a shot of pondering 'why'? Is it because... people are 'whining'? You call it whining? I choose to spend my hard earned money on something that I love, something that I've loved for years. I want it to be better, I want the game to thrive, to have a good reputation. But in order for it to have that... it needs to tend to its fanbase's needs and wants.
Does it tend to the fanbase's needs and wants if there are so many negative reviews and comments?
If you pay for a car, and the steering wheel doesn't work. Do you keep silent about it because the rest of the car is amazing? Or do you 'complain' to the person you bought it from, because it's your money (money is a serious thing, do not forget that) and you want your money's worth?
Have a little... perspective. Some people choose to see everything good and turn a blind eye to the mess, and some people see what's lacking and want to improve it.
No one's... hating on the devs. The 'hate' I've seen is towards EA, the multi million dollar company that rules over Maxis like a puppeteer.
What keeps The Sims going? Money. Where does that money come from? The players. It should honestly speak for itself that the company, who only exists because of the players, should aim to keep its fans happy. Are the fans happy, if there are so many negative posts? No?
If I spend 1000+ dollars on something you'd better believe it I'd let them know if they're doing something terribly wrong. The Sims is an old game now. People have grown up with it, including me. We miss the old things, how it used to be, when everything was so much... simply put, better.
We want it to be good again. We want it to be better, because we pay for it with our money. The fans, who are literally the ones keeping the game running by giving EA money, have a right to complain. (This obviously doesn't include personal attacks of devs, but criticism of EA).
You can sit and feel bad about all the negativity... I know it gets overwhelming. But maybe it's worth giving it a shot of pondering 'why'? Is it because... people are 'whining'? You call it whining? I choose to spend my hard earned money on something that I love, something that I've loved for years. I want it to be better, I want the game to thrive, to have a good reputation. But in order for it to have that... it needs to tend to its fanbase's needs and wants.
Does it tend to the fanbase's needs and wants if there are so many negative reviews and comments?
If you pay for a car, and the steering wheel doesn't work. Do you keep silent about it because the rest of the car is amazing? Or do you 'complain' to the person you bought it from, because it's your money (money is a serious thing, do not forget that) and you want your money's worth?
Have a little... perspective. Some people choose to see everything good and turn a blind eye to the mess, and some people see what's lacking and want to improve it.
I absolutely agree with everything you said. It's precisely what I was getting at and I note that you did not once call Sims 4 a "total fail." You did not once attack the devs, EA or Maxis. This is the type of criticism that we need. Thank you for your input. Of course we all want the "car" to run properly but if the steering wheel is messed up, we don't call the person we got it from and start insulting them personally, even their integrity "EA cares nothing for the gamers. They just care about the money." That's one example of one post in one of the threads. Which, as you've pointed out, if they care about the money, of course they care about the gamers that pay them that money.
But I digress, of course we complain to whomever we got the car from and we demand they fix it. That's not what I've been talking about all day. I have been saying it's in the personal attacks and insults toward the devs, EA and Maxis. I'm just trying to get people to try a bit more tact. We all want the same thing; the game to work properly and be fun. When it's not, of course we're going to complain; myself included. But hopefully we can do it tactfully.
As for perspective let's both try that. Put yourself in the devs shoes and see things from their perspective as well.
The devs are employees of EA. EA is a large corporation that markets and sells products in the form of games. And this forum is unique because we have the opportunity to voice our opinions about a game we have purchased, played, and love, hate or wish it was better than it is. This forum has been here for over twenty years and has seen it's fair share of disappointed and angry posts and threads; and I doubt any of that will change in the future. This forum is here so we can discuss the Sims franchise and give our personal opinions. We give praise when it is deserved and we become upset when certain issues come about with the game and nothing is done about those issues in a timely fashion. If EA allowed players to return a faulty game and get a refund, there would be no need for this forum at all. If the devs want to know what makes the players happy, or what the players are most disappointed with, they should visit us here a bit more often. They are professionals in their field. One does not become a professional at anything without knowing how to take criticism in stride and learn from it. And I am seeing less and less of that mindset every day.
If I purchased a faulty console, contacted the company for help but was ignored, I would be livid. I would get a refund one way or the other and that company would have no choice but to comply. That is not the case when one buys a digital copy of a game to play on any platform. Once EA has our money we are on our own. We rely on the devs to make things right. We rely on the gurus to be open and communicate with us, and give feedback to the teams. But none of that is happening. It isn't surprising to see more angry posts than happy ones right now. Given the number of players currently playing Sims4, one cannot expect everyone to have the same opinion about the game. It would be painful to see only happy chirpy posts in here. I expect to see personal opinions that give me insight into how others view this game, every new pack and update, every new idea for something I had never thought about; all of it is absorbed and carefully considered because it all matters. Everyone's personal opinion matters. Negative or not, there is always something to be learned from listening to other players.
Again, I never once said that there should be no negative feedback. I have said repeatedly that there needs to be criticism but constructive criticism. Seriously, is this such a hard concept for people? If you insult me and deny it or not, there are many insulting posts aimed at the devs, Maxis and EA and eventually, I'm going to quit listening to you. I'll listen to others but not those who are just insulting. Frustration happens. Of course it does...again I've acknowledged that too several times. But before posting, take a deep breath, organize your thoughts and try to push your emotions aside so that you can post about the actual issue and not the way you feel.
Exactly the way you seem to have done. Your post seems thought out and is not in any way insulting or offensive. I appreciate that and hope to have more posts like this. One can give a negative opinion without be rude and insulting. You are proving that. Your post is respectful even with the negative points you bring up. So thank you again.
1. It had no pools or toddlers upon release the former has been in all sims game and the latter was added into the sims 2 and 3. It wasn't until 2017 that we got toddlers and because we missed out on 3 years many of the packs have zero content for toddlers.
2. They introduced game packs into the franchise which while a good idea ended up being bad because they continued to keep SP. It meant that content was going to be broken up severely. The sims 3 late night had apartments, hot tubs and vampires for about 30$ to 40$. To get the equivalent in the sims 4 you'd have to get 3 packs and that would end up costing about 70$. Vampires was a good game pack so I don't mind but why did we need perfect patio stuff?
Back in the day the Sims Team were forced to give us a lot of things because they only had EP and SP but they also realized that a SP should just be stuff and not a way to hold hostage a gameplay feature. You didn't need a stuff pack or store content, sure they were nice to have but I couldn't afford to get them and I didn't feel like I was missing much. Another example is making an SP for Spooky day stuff that has the event and the Backyard stuff which has the waterslide. Both were included in sims 3 seasons but now if you get Seasons you will fell like something is missing and end up paying so you can have the full experience. This isn't fair to the players at all.
3. The Sims 4 has no toggles. I have to resort to mods to keep vampires and strangerville off. It is one of the big reasons why there is a big feud between family and occult players. I doubt family players would complain if they got to benefit from BB and clothing items but could ignore the occults.
4. They reuse animations. The toddlers in the kiddie pool and ocean have the exact same animation which is ridiculous I mean they didn't even have the decency to reskin the rubber ducky and add in a sea shell for the ocean instead. All they can do is sit in the water which is boring and add nothing new to the game at all. There is tons of proof that they reuse animations and clothing all the time.
5. The Devs keep making excuses as why there aren't basic features in the game. We still don't have bunk beds and on twitter I have seen the excuse that they don't have the right pack to put them in yet. Its like parenthood and tiny living didn't exist. Also the fact that we can't have dog houses was ridiculous
6. Modders. In ROM children cannot do magic and you could make the excuse that making animations for the kids would be too expensive...then how come a modder was able to do it and it looked perfect. They were the exact same animations for adults and someone did that for free.
I'm gonna stop here because its getting long but I could on and on about the Sims does not live up to its predecessors. You can't release great games and then release a game with half the content and expect people to be happy about it. Now I don't want to put all the blame on Devs because EA is funding them but it would be ridiculous to say that the Gurus are complete puppets.
Everyone has a right to express their opinion and it can become game changing even if I disagree. AKA popular opinion wins
We need to speak up because we are human. It should be done constructively but some are passionate and speak their mind.
You can always offer friendly suggestions to make experiences better. Facts can back up your statement. I avoid confrontation though.
I did not start playing until 2002 and have taken breaks from the forum in the past. This is not my original account. Now I refuse to take a break because I have learned to pick and choose my battles. If I disagree I can make a constructive comment or complain or do nothing. It's my choice! No one can turn off my free will.
Find a thread or two you enjoy. There is a happy simming thread or something like that. There is also a thread for family style simmers. I believe that anyone can find a place here. It's diverse compared to the way it used to be.
@HayleeSims very well put. I see your points on all of them and can get a better sense of the frustrations that some are feeling. Before, all I could say was something like 'I know some people are frustrated' but since I had not seen such a well put post as this (which of course is negative by its nature), I can see the frustrations. I love positively put negative posts. This is something the devs need to be able the hear in my opinion! Thanks for sharing!
I think most people complain due to the obvious misrepresentation this game portrays of metaphysical poets in love with Big Foot, but due to the well documented discrimination this group attracts, they instead disguise their concerns around "bugs" and/or "content", when all any of us really want is a hairy wedding where none are really sure they are actually there.
I'm talking a wedding cake in the shape of Abe Lincoln's head kind of content that we demand and, quite frankly, deserve after the years of oppression we've received from multiple generations of TS where we've been arrogantly ignored.
I think most people complain due to the obvious misrepresentation this game portrays of metaphysical poets in love with Big Foot, but due to the well documented discrimination this group attracts, they instead disguise their concerns around "bugs" and/or "content", when all any of us really want is a hairy wedding where none are really sure they are actually there.
I'm talking a wedding cake in the shape of Abe Lincoln's head kind of content that we demand and, quite frankly, deserve after the years of oppression we've received from multiple generations of TS where we've been arrogantly ignored.
:lmao: I guess that answers everything! Thanks for clarifying!
I do think it can be quite bad to hear people always complaining about the game but at the same time, I also feel like the devs need to wake up.
Plus, I don't think the devs don't come on here cuz they are tired or not willing to see all the naysayers. There's a lot of positive threads here and lots of people who give constructive feedback, which they can really use to make the game better. So I don't see how that is a thing. But who am I to know? I did remember seeing the devs more often here when TS4 just came out tho. XD
I do think it can be quite bad to hear people always complaining about the game but at the same time, I also feel like the devs need to wake up.
Plus, I don't think the devs don't come on here cuz they are tired or not willing to see all the naysayers. There's a lot of positive threads here and lots of people who give constructive feedback, which they can really use to make the game better. So I don't see how that is a thing. But who am I to know? I did remember seeing the devs more often here when TS4 just came out tho. XD
As long as we can all have constructive dialog, I think it can end well.
And yes, there are a lot of positive posts and threads here now. But has it always been that way? Did they give up long before TS4? From my understanding many stopped coming in way back at the beginning. Who knows why they left? And though most of my posts do suggest that as a highly possible reason, I don't know why they don't come in anymore. All I want is to give them less reason to stay away; not more. So maybe more posts that are constructive and less insulting will help. I don't see how it would hurt.
Also, I do think it would be nice to hear more from the devs. I also find it very coincidental that the day I posted this thread, they gave us the update. I'm not saying that I had anything to do with it but it's just funny how the two happened almost simultaneously, given the nature of this thread. lol
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lol
It's been a bit quiet lately but wait until the next pack is announced. The negativity will skyrocket again. And I never said it out loud because I don't want anyone to feel bad or offended but I often thought to myself if I were a Dev I would not come here either.
I know this game has it's flaws and there are many things I would like to see changed or improved. However, everyone knows by now that sims 4 was a scrapped online game originally which means they are now working with limitations they normally wouldn't have. And in my opinion the team works hard to bring us the best they can, and make us happy according to the constraints of their budgets, time, and limitations.
I noticed their communication with everyone has dropped dramatically over the years and the new community manager frost, way of communication seems to be silence.
But I was digging into the old posts here from many years ago when the Devs were active here. And I was shocked how badly they were mistreated and insulted by people here.
People do not know know how to maintain a professional businesses relationship and treat eachother with respect rather you are happy with something or not. Is it that hard to express you're Dissapointment politely or to be mindful of the feelings of others? That's why the team stopped communicating, it was a mess. So I don't fault them for being silent.
There are a lot of nice people here and everything. I love all of you guys/girls even the negative ones. It can be fun even to share our frustrations because we all know the sims 4 can take you there 🤣🤣🤣But for me the negativity and straight up insults and demands I have seen at times just feels overwhelming and unwelcoming.
Okay I got that out. 😁
Yes, I agree completely with "however general posts about issues brought up by the community from developers is normal and expected communication." the key here is "general posts," not people who only want to complain and insult the company that you represent.
Without reading that Gwent thread, I agree that feedback is necessary. I never once said it wasn't. So again, we agree.
You're right. Because I happen to love the Sims. I loved TS3 and I love TS4. I defend what I love. Do I have to? No. I could just sit back and watch people badmouth and insult something that I happen to enjoy and watch them infect other people with their misery or I can speak up. Is it wrong to speak up for something you believe in? Is it wrong to voice your opinion? Nope, if so, we wouldn't be having this conversation because there were be no allowance for the complaints in the first place. So yep, I'm being vocal because if others can complain about the game I can complain about them. But see, this is what we need. What you and I are doing right here, debate. Not ramped up emotions that cloud logic and reason, debate. Sharing of opinions and discussions. This is constructive. Now, let's say I throw all reason out the window and just started insulting you as most of these complainers do to the devs, Maxis and EA. How would you handle that?
Of course the company wants to make maximum profit. However, you can't please everybody so some people are simply never going to be satisfied. Those people sadly have to be written off at some point. It's a sad reality. If you honestly know that you've done the best you an do with the tools at your disposal and still can't satisfy them, what else can you do?
First of all, let me quote you in that same paragraph, "But you can't say that..." Again, going back to the fly quote. Are you saying that people that using that saying are speaking on behalf of the fly population? I am not saying, nor implying that it will happen. I am simply stating that it's easier to get what you want with kindness than with hostility.
Thank you! You've touched on exactly what I'm trying to say. Be nice to them and they just might start coming back again!
While I make my own fair share of critical posts, I also try to keep balanced by also contributing to positive threads. But I believe people should always try to be respectful. I understand too, that frustration can make people a little bit snippier or lash out sometimes, as I've been guilty of the same, but I do think you have a point about there being a consistent ultra-negative push that kind of taints the forums. I've noticed also that some people get really sour and start blaming other players for a faulty game because they don't want Sims 4 to be successful if they themselves don't like it. It's one thing to state what you like/dislike and give constructive criticism and take responsibility for your personal preferences, but it's kind of asinine to take your own malcontent out on other players and start finger pointing and flinging insults at developers and throwing rude behaviors around just because you don't like a video game. I've definitely seen the kinds of posts that you speak of, and my advice would be to make liberal use of the "flag" or "report" buttons and let the moderators sort it out. They are usually quite fair about removing problematic posts or popping in to give a warning. Especially if the post derails the thread. But that's pretty much all you can do.
I think people too often forget the sage advice of, "treat others as you want to be treated". Because it's really that simple.
Very nicely stated. I hope you don't mind that I broke it up some if so, let me know and I'll gladly change it back. You've made some very good points though and I wanted to make sure they weren't missed.
We've all had our negative moments and said things that in retrospect we know we shouldn't have, or at the least should have stated differently. Nobody is blameless in that. So we all have to share the responsibility and work harder to fix ourselves so that the community as a whole can be a better place for all of us.
General posts from the developers/ company. Not the community. Are you really under impression that no other development team takes any heat?
You are trying to actively silence people that are seeking improvement of the franchise, because you dislike their tone of voice. That is effectively your post summed up.
On this forum, there's one easy way to handle that - report them. There is no profanity or insults thrown towards the developers, as that is a bannable offence. Everyone here is rather civil.
Forgive me for misquoting you. I misread it. However, of course every development teams take heat. Getting feedback again is important. Also, again, it's not about the feedback. It's about the insults.
So because I too am practicing my freedom of speech in defense of the game I love, that means I'm trying to silence others? Hmm, interesting. And also, completely mischaracterized. I am not trying to silence anyone. I am just suggesting people try to practice a little civility.
Assuming the "report" isn't an option though, there is the "block" option. So what I'm saying and if you read the other posts in this thread, you'll see that others have gone through the old forums and have pointed out that even when the devs did come here ago, they were treated hatefully. hmm, so why don't they come here anymore? I wonder. Perhaps they just got fed up with the annoying abuses and essentially "blocked" the entire site. Obviously, before I'm misquoted or mischaracterized again, I don't mean "block" in the sense of closing the site down. I mean it in the sense of simply putting it on their ignore list.
Recall if I am wrong but didn't yourself say ask why we complainers are playing? Basically be quiet and go play something else? Yeeeaahhh.
I would say do not go with this line of reasoning because you aren't doing them any favours.
Blocking out your fanbase is what companies that go down do. Companies that rise up do the exact opposite.
If you need some positive cases to study, look into No Mans Sky.
They're not blocking out their fanbase, they're blocking out just this portion of it because of the haters. They still communicate with their fans through at least twitter. So they're still gettng feedback, just not the hate from in here. That's what I understand at least. But I'd love to see them start coming back again. I don't think that's beyond the realm of possibility.
If people communicated their grievances in a mature manner, it would be different. We all need to do that. As I said, like you and I have been doing all day. So I appreciate that we've both been able to express our differences without flinging insults and letting our emotions run rampant. Thank you.
What keeps The Sims going? Money. Where does that money come from? The players. It should honestly speak for itself that the company, who only exists because of the players, should aim to keep its fans happy. Are the fans happy, if there are so many negative posts? No?
If I spend 1000+ dollars on something you'd better believe it I'd let them know if they're doing something terribly wrong. The Sims is an old game now. People have grown up with it, including me. We miss the old things, how it used to be, when everything was so much... simply put, better.
We want it to be good again. We want it to be better, because we pay for it with our money. The fans, who are literally the ones keeping the game running by giving EA money, have a right to complain. (This obviously doesn't include personal attacks of devs, but criticism of EA).
You can sit and feel bad about all the negativity... I know it gets overwhelming. But maybe it's worth giving it a shot of pondering 'why'? Is it because... people are 'whining'? You call it whining? I choose to spend my hard earned money on something that I love, something that I've loved for years. I want it to be better, I want the game to thrive, to have a good reputation. But in order for it to have that... it needs to tend to its fanbase's needs and wants.
Does it tend to the fanbase's needs and wants if there are so many negative reviews and comments?
If you pay for a car, and the steering wheel doesn't work. Do you keep silent about it because the rest of the car is amazing? Or do you 'complain' to the person you bought it from, because it's your money (money is a serious thing, do not forget that) and you want your money's worth?
Have a little... perspective. Some people choose to see everything good and turn a blind eye to the mess, and some people see what's lacking and want to improve it.
If I purchased a faulty console, contacted the company for help but was ignored, I would be livid. I would get a refund one way or the other and that company would have no choice but to comply. That is not the case when one buys a digital copy of a game to play on any platform. Once EA has our money we are on our own. We rely on the devs to make things right. We rely on the gurus to be open and communicate with us, and give feedback to the teams. But none of that is happening. It isn't surprising to see more angry posts than happy ones right now. Given the number of players currently playing Sims4, one cannot expect everyone to have the same opinion about the game. It would be painful to see only happy chirpy posts in here. I expect to see personal opinions that give me insight into how others view this game, every new pack and update, every new idea for something I had never thought about; all of it is absorbed and carefully considered because it all matters. Everyone's personal opinion matters. Negative or not, there is always something to be learned from listening to other players.
100% THIS!!! ^
I absolutely agree with everything you said. It's precisely what I was getting at and I note that you did not once call Sims 4 a "total fail." You did not once attack the devs, EA or Maxis. This is the type of criticism that we need. Thank you for your input. Of course we all want the "car" to run properly but if the steering wheel is messed up, we don't call the person we got it from and start insulting them personally, even their integrity "EA cares nothing for the gamers. They just care about the money." That's one example of one post in one of the threads. Which, as you've pointed out, if they care about the money, of course they care about the gamers that pay them that money.
But I digress, of course we complain to whomever we got the car from and we demand they fix it. That's not what I've been talking about all day. I have been saying it's in the personal attacks and insults toward the devs, EA and Maxis. I'm just trying to get people to try a bit more tact. We all want the same thing; the game to work properly and be fun. When it's not, of course we're going to complain; myself included. But hopefully we can do it tactfully.
As for perspective let's both try that. Put yourself in the devs shoes and see things from their perspective as well.
Again, I never once said that there should be no negative feedback. I have said repeatedly that there needs to be criticism but constructive criticism. Seriously, is this such a hard concept for people? If you insult me and deny it or not, there are many insulting posts aimed at the devs, Maxis and EA and eventually, I'm going to quit listening to you. I'll listen to others but not those who are just insulting. Frustration happens. Of course it does...again I've acknowledged that too several times. But before posting, take a deep breath, organize your thoughts and try to push your emotions aside so that you can post about the actual issue and not the way you feel.
Exactly the way you seem to have done. Your post seems thought out and is not in any way insulting or offensive. I appreciate that and hope to have more posts like this. One can give a negative opinion without be rude and insulting. You are proving that. Your post is respectful even with the negative points you bring up. So thank you again.
2. They introduced game packs into the franchise which while a good idea ended up being bad because they continued to keep SP. It meant that content was going to be broken up severely. The sims 3 late night had apartments, hot tubs and vampires for about 30$ to 40$. To get the equivalent in the sims 4 you'd have to get 3 packs and that would end up costing about 70$. Vampires was a good game pack so I don't mind but why did we need perfect patio stuff?
Back in the day the Sims Team were forced to give us a lot of things because they only had EP and SP but they also realized that a SP should just be stuff and not a way to hold hostage a gameplay feature. You didn't need a stuff pack or store content, sure they were nice to have but I couldn't afford to get them and I didn't feel like I was missing much. Another example is making an SP for Spooky day stuff that has the event and the Backyard stuff which has the waterslide. Both were included in sims 3 seasons but now if you get Seasons you will fell like something is missing and end up paying so you can have the full experience. This isn't fair to the players at all.
3. The Sims 4 has no toggles. I have to resort to mods to keep vampires and strangerville off. It is one of the big reasons why there is a big feud between family and occult players. I doubt family players would complain if they got to benefit from BB and clothing items but could ignore the occults.
4. They reuse animations. The toddlers in the kiddie pool and ocean have the exact same animation which is ridiculous I mean they didn't even have the decency to reskin the rubber ducky and add in a sea shell for the ocean instead. All they can do is sit in the water which is boring and add nothing new to the game at all. There is tons of proof that they reuse animations and clothing all the time.
5. The Devs keep making excuses as why there aren't basic features in the game. We still don't have bunk beds and on twitter I have seen the excuse that they don't have the right pack to put them in yet. Its like parenthood and tiny living didn't exist. Also the fact that we can't have dog houses was ridiculous
6. Modders. In ROM children cannot do magic and you could make the excuse that making animations for the kids would be too expensive...then how come a modder was able to do it and it looked perfect. They were the exact same animations for adults and someone did that for free.
I'm gonna stop here because its getting long but I could on and on about the Sims does not live up to its predecessors. You can't release great games and then release a game with half the content and expect people to be happy about it. Now I don't want to put all the blame on Devs because EA is funding them but it would be ridiculous to say that the Gurus are complete puppets.
We need to speak up because we are human. It should be done constructively but some are passionate and speak their mind.
You can always offer friendly suggestions to make experiences better. Facts can back up your statement. I avoid confrontation though.
I did not start playing until 2002 and have taken breaks from the forum in the past. This is not my original account. Now I refuse to take a break because I have learned to pick and choose my battles. If I disagree I can make a constructive comment or complain or do nothing. It's my choice! No one can turn off my free will.
Find a thread or two you enjoy. There is a happy simming thread or something like that. There is also a thread for family style simmers. I believe that anyone can find a place here. It's diverse compared to the way it used to be.
I'm talking a wedding cake in the shape of Abe Lincoln's head kind of content that we demand and, quite frankly, deserve after the years of oppression we've received from multiple generations of TS where we've been arrogantly ignored.
:lmao: I guess that answers everything! Thanks for clarifying!
I do think it can be quite bad to hear people always complaining about the game but at the same time, I also feel like the devs need to wake up.
Plus, I don't think the devs don't come on here cuz they are tired or not willing to see all the naysayers. There's a lot of positive threads here and lots of people who give constructive feedback, which they can really use to make the game better. So I don't see how that is a thing. But who am I to know? I did remember seeing the devs more often here when TS4 just came out tho. XD
As long as we can all have constructive dialog, I think it can end well.
And yes, there are a lot of positive posts and threads here now. But has it always been that way? Did they give up long before TS4? From my understanding many stopped coming in way back at the beginning. Who knows why they left? And though most of my posts do suggest that as a highly possible reason, I don't know why they don't come in anymore. All I want is to give them less reason to stay away; not more. So maybe more posts that are constructive and less insulting will help. I don't see how it would hurt.
Also, I do think it would be nice to hear more from the devs. I also find it very coincidental that the day I posted this thread, they gave us the update. I'm not saying that I had anything to do with it but it's just funny how the two happened almost simultaneously, given the nature of this thread. lol