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How Do Reality Players Justify What Fantasy They Accept In TS4?

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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    I don’t think the OP means this as a personal attack towards actual simmers, but was merely stirring the pot a little to have a discussion about a phenomenon within the genre. I mainly see curiosity in a “how does this work for you then” way. The irritation concerning shortcuts is clearly real, but that’s aimed at the game, not simmers.
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  • Bluebeard45Bluebeard45 Posts: 3,889 Member
    I got my issues with the game and doubt they will be fixed. Even with the bugs and other issues I find the Sims a place to escape the real world.
  • ChadSims2ChadSims2 Posts: 5,090 Member
    Seeing as I pretty much agree with all your points and have requested a lot of them to be fixed here on the forums such as hospitals from Get to Work being unlocked the bed not making itself and being left unmade by Sims who are slobs, paying to fill the fridge and poofing is my nightmare endless request on cars so I don't just accept these things I want them better. The only thing I disagree on is the talking toilet it remains a unused object in my game that's not forced on anyone unlike all the other shortcuts and poorly done features you mentioned. You also forgot to mention bassinet babies and kids one day fooling around adult sized teens the next there's a lot that needs done to improve realism and as it is now it can be annoying. But just because we are forced to accept some bad features is your goal for us to have our game overrun with occults casting spells everywhere locking our community lots so we cant leave with Vampires with that I say no thanks.
    Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 35,708 Member
    CelSims wrote: »
    I've seen 'realism' players complaining about a lot of your points actually. The things that make me laugh about 'realism' players are the following:-
    Cheating death by save scumming
    Using cheats to fill needs when its not convenient to attend to them
    Using ambrosia or any other of the many ways to revive dead sims
    Money trees
    Reward store traits
    etc

    I consider them 'fantasy' players. They don't want realism, they want a fictional perfect life or perfect story to fit in with what they want to tell. Not that there's anything at all wrong with that, but it's not realism. Real life is unpredictable, sometimes heartbreaking, sometimes more perfect in the moment than you can imagine.


    I don't mind being labeled a fantasy player. The entire series is fantastical. Babies born in three days, work promotions every few days, scarecrows that come to life, teleporting, just to name a few. My claim for realism is simply based on the life states that appear most human like and nothing to do with the mechanics of the game.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    Babies being born in 3 days isn’t exactly unrealistic when sims live about 90 days anyway.
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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    ChadSims2 wrote: »
    Seeing as I pretty much agree with all your points and have requested a lot of them to be fixed here on the forums such as hospitals from Get to Work being unlocked the bed not making itself and being left unmade by Sims who are slobs, paying to fill the fridge and poofing is my nightmare endless request on cars so I don't just accept these things I want them better. The only thing I disagree on is the talking toilet it remains a unused object in my game that's not forced on anyone unlike all the other shortcuts and poorly done features you mentioned. You also forgot to mention bassinet babies and kids one day fooling around adult sized teens the next there's a lot that needs done to improve realism and as it is now it can be annoying. But just because we are forced to accept some bad features is your goal for us to have our game overrun with occults casting spells everywhere locking our community lots so we cant leave with Vampires with that I say no thanks.

    I'm pretty sure the vampire on lot community lot thing is a bug, IIRC it has been patched out twice but must keep coming back.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 35,708 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Babies being born in 3 days isn’t exactly unrealistic when sims live about 90 days anyway.

    Okay then let's just say the 90 day lifespan is not common. :)
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited January 2020
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Babies being born in 3 days isn’t exactly unrealistic when sims live about 90 days anyway.

    Okay then let's just say the 90 day lifespan is not common. :)
    Haha, true. I roughly consider one day a year, but that doesn’t make much sense either of course :p A 3 year pregnancy.
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  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited January 2020
    My version of realism I've realized is much more diverse in many ways even from the list provided and from other posts. I realize Sims is very fantasy and realistic in many ways even since the beginning. It is the representation of both not being in the game which has been the biggest hurdle of the Sims 4. If anything it represents a role playing, sitcom environment which I wouldn't even put in the same line as fantasy but more in the line of acting on a stage. True it does need more consequences which I highly agree with. I would like the Sims games to represent disabilities more. Repoman did return in Discover University and pretty cool how it works in a pretty realistic way with student loans which plagues a lot of young adults now. But yeah if anything even supernaturals are getting the short end of the stick with this iterations given how many supernaturals were available for the Sims 1, 2, and 3 at this time. I would like a toggle and thought it worked well in the Sims 3. I think Sims 4 colors are very inclusive and represent the environment of a mental hospital and prison with all the bland tones. If anything it annoys me how Grim uses a tablet with death. Makes me miss him partying with the hula dancers.

    Sims 4 was never designed to be a life simulation game as you can see from the original heads of the game. Even talks about the game having soft fuzzy type drama:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOiYMtwINXI
    Post edited by Scobre on
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • MissyHissyMissyHissy Posts: 2,022 Member
    Interesting questions. I get where you're coming from; the 'fantasy' versus 'reality', although I agree that it does seem like simmers like myself who aren't bothered by some of the 'shortcuts' you mentioned are being lumped in with occult players.

    To be honest, I don't care that the sims don't travel to a building and disappear off the lot. I'm an imaginative person, I always have been. For me, when my sims travel from Windenburg to Oasis Springs, I decide for myself 'how' they got there. An example for you:

    I have a sim travel from San Myshuno to Magnolia Promenade for a spot of shopping. They're buying some toys for their nephew's upcoming birthday, then stop off to have coffee with their sister. I then imagine for myself that the sim gets the tram to Willow Creek (because the trams run in both), then gets the train back to San Myshuno (since trains run in both). Now, the reason I like to imagine this is because if this actually was in game, I'd fast forward the travel. I know I would, because I do it all the time in Sims 3 when they travel in the car :D For me, the travelling in vehicles is boring because it's wasting their time, in my game. So a loading screen allows me to imagine they've travelled by the methods mentioned.

    Similarly, I recently had an author, living in San Myshuno, get nominated for a Starlight Accolade. When the time came to travel to Del Sol Valley for the awards ceremony, I imagined he took the train to the airport (since you see planes fly over the city, it's reasonable to assume there would be one), then imagine he got a plane to Del Sol Valley (if you're in the cheaper neighbourhood, you can watch the planes at a nearby airport. I actually only discovered this last week and spent nearly ten minutes freaking mesmerised by them :D ). Once again, if this sort of travel was in the game, I'd get bored. It'd be a waste of my time, my Sim's time and ultimately, game resources too. It just wouldn't be fun for me.

    Okay, that covered travel. I know that doesn't scratch the surface of your inquiry but I hope I can answer some of the others tomorrow, when I have some more time.

    To cut this short for now though, I class myself as a semi-realistic player. I recently bought Vampires and Strangerville because I want to include some paranormal/supernatural researchers in my game (an idea my aunt had, actually, in her own game) and those two packs have exactly what I was looking for. Previous to this, I rarely played supernaturals, although I'm now enjoying the challenge of having them present in my game but not every household (I play rotationally, so this works perfectly for me). I like elements of realism in the game but not mind-numbing reality. If they had to mow the lawns, I'd be out the door :D I generally go for more realistic than occult but I don't mind some fantasy elements.

    I hope that answers at least one question. They're interesting questions though and I hope to cover some more tomorrow <3
    *All my mods can be found on The Daily Plumbob*MiAqoAE.png
  • MissyHissyMissyHissy Posts: 2,022 Member
    Okay, a fresh day and I'm back, as promised.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    1. If no one wants fantasy then why accept the Sim doesn't have to walk to a pc to order meds? Isn't that some sort of magically deligious meds that just appear in inventory?

    This doesn't bother me but I can see why it would bug the heck out of some people. In truth, I'd love it if they did have to go to the doctor/hospital if they're sick; it's one element of realism I'd really love to see. It's been handy for me in the past to buy the medication on the computer when I've been in a bind but I'd love to see that. As we don't have the option to send them to the doctor, this will suffice. It doesn't bother me that they don't walk to the computer but I would prefer them to actually go to the doctor, then maybe have a counter (like a pharmacist) to buy the medication before going home. That I'd love to see <3
    Cinebar wrote: »
    2. Why is it accepted starving Sims can just 'magically' get food from some invisible pocket and eat it and not starve? Isn't that magic?

    I agree on this one. Mine don't do this very often, admittedly but I did see one of my University students with a croissant in her inventory yesterday which she just pulled out when she was peckish. It's rare that I see this but it is rather irritating. Most of the time, I can ignore it and in busy households, I probably don't notice how often they do it. I can't say as it drives me mad but it's definitely something...daft.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    3. Why do Sims walk everywhere? Is that reality? really? they walked to the desert? Wouldn't that be a road trip? From the alps of WB to the desert seems to me they would at least need an appearance of some sort of transportation. Magic teleporting through a loading screen. Fantasy.

    Covered this one above, so I won't bore you with the details again. I just like to use my imagination with the methods of transport because I really would get bored actually watching that.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    4. Sims don't have to walk to a dresser but just click on it and change clothes, or click on Sim. No opening drawers to see clothes inside anymore, isn't that fantasy to just click on a Sim and magically change the outfit? Time saver fantasy.

    Again, never bothered me much. In Sims 3, I never used the dressers to change their clothes, I usually just click on the Sim. So the fact that they don't walk to the dresser in Sims 4 isn't something I'm too fussed about. I usually obsess over tweaking outfits anyway so them walking over to the dresser to plan their outfit is good enough for me.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    5. Reality check. Sims get some weird disease but even if you don't get the meds they will be fine in a few hours or less. Isn't that a fantasy they didn't even have to get meds or go to hospital?

    Covered this one under point 1.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    6. Sims die and nowhere to bury them. Isn't that fantasy no one held a funeral nor were they placed in any graveyard? What happened to the body? It just poofed away.

    I rarely have deaths in the game myself but I did used to like the idea of the graveyard in Sims 3 and hope to simulate something like that myself in Sims 4 anyway.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    7. Grim Reaper, even if he did exist in RL would he hang out and party with Sims? Millions die daily, wouldn't he be too busy? Fantasy accepted it seems.

    As above, I don't tend to see the Grim Reaper much in Sims 4. I did notice his ability to party in Sims 3, so I'm assuming it's still the same. I tend to ask him to leave anyway but it feels like he puts a dampener on any party if he sticks around :D
    Cinebar wrote: »
    8. The need and demand for reality..ok...then wouldn't there be death? Wouldn't there be hardships? Wouldn't there be divorces? Wouldn't there be child custody battles? Wouldn't there be burglars? Cars? Home telephones? Newspapers (in some towns), Grocery stores? Accepted fantasy of no need to go buy groceries, no need to worry about death, no need to worry about transportation, no need to worry about not being able to afford a $1000 iPhone, no need to ever worry about divorce, or cheaters and or lies and or a life ruined.

    As I mentioned in my last post, I'm a semi-realistic player so each of these features don't bother me that they're not there. I usually manage to inflict hardships on them without even trying, so that doesn't get to me. Divorces, I do it myself. Child custody battles I'm pleased aren't there - more trouble than it's worth in game, to be honest. I always had a mod against burglars because I hate them so I'm glad to not have them. Cars; comes under transport, which I covered above. Home telephones; in reality, I never use my home telephone so this hasn't bothered me one little bit. Newspapers; ditto. Grocery Stores: I agree on this one. I did like the idea of creating the grocery stores/supermarkets in Sims 2 and would like to have something similar in Sims 4. Not the rabbithole one from Sims 3 but the real ability to go and buy the food. I usually simulate this myself by not letting them cook meals unless they have all the ingredients for it, then buy some of them at the vegetable stalls in San Myshuno.
    I do definitely understand why the above features would bother some though.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    9. No repo of stuff if the bills aren't paid? No bankruptcy. But sure, TS4 is reality, Not.

    I rather like the electricity/water getting cut off if the bills aren't paid more than the repo man. This feels a bit more realistic to me personally, although I do get your point.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    10. Fire in a house and Sim magically pulls out fire extinisher from magic pockets. Oh, but don't give us magic, lol. No firemen or fire fighter whichever you prefer. A whole town without a City Hall, city government or city employees. Reality check.

    I'm guilty again of having a mod preventing fire altogether. I feel like they happen too frequently (this is in all generations of the game, to be fair) to be realistic so I cut them out altogether. I know people in real life who've lost everything in house fires; it's not something I personally wish to represent in the game.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    11. Strays everywhere, but no animal patrol or animal control agency. Why do we accept this as reality. Reality players surely are distrubed by all this fantasy, right? But don't build more magic and or occults that would be catering to fantasy players.

    Again, I frequently use mods to disable strays (this was the case in Sims 2 and Sims 3 as well). So I don't tend to see them anyway. I agree, the frequency of strays is OTT, so I mod them out.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    12. I don't use the gender patch much. However, male frame can get pregnant? IF I'm wrong and it's the transfemale who gets pregnant ok, but if it's two male frames, isn't that some magic?

    Like you, I don't actually use this much so I can't comment. I honestly don't know how it works.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    13. The argument of omg, don't abduct my males and get pregnant, alien babies, but all the above is accpeted as reality.

    I don't mind aliens in the game in Sims 4 (hated them in the other two) because I don't feel they're intrusive. I didn't fancy one of my Build A City Founders having an alien baby (He'd already got five human children with his wife) because that's one element I just don't want in the game. I do have a mod to end the pregnancy if I choose so it doesn't intrude in my normal gameplay. I don't mind the option being there (I may well end up with a crazy scientist who's fascinated with this stuff. In which case he's welcome to it :D ). I don't think it's a feature that should be done away with, since I know lots of players love having them in.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    14. Social worker, fantasy to see a light and not a real Sim pull up and take away child. Wow, isn't that magic? Can't adopt the child into a different family but never complain about the lack of reality that the child just poofed away gone from game forever.

    Never had a child taken away, so I can't comment on this really. I become obsessive over caring for them, so this is probably why.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    15. Isn't it fantasy to accept people would have only three trait slots? That they never inherited traits nor they never learned behaviors that became traits.

    It's funny actually because I don't mind this at all myself. I felt like a lot of the traits in Sims 3 accomplished nothing so the ones in Sims 4 feel (to me, anyway) like they do accomplish a bit more. That said, they do inherit odd ones along the way in the game but I'd love some more to be brought out, especially learnable ones. I do particularly like the learned behavioural traits from Parenthood though. That feels more realistic for me, personally, to learn things like good manners, responsibility etc.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    16. Is it reality to think no one ever fights and or slaps another and they just go take an angry poop?

    Funny, I had a sim last night who was angry and picked a fight with the vampire who was visiting them (they were already enemies). Sadly for my sim, he lost and was dropped from the sky by the vampire in question but I digress. I don't tend to have much problem with the emotional system but perhaps I'm not getting the problems others are? So not sure really. I suppose with this one, it would depend on the Sim. I have a hot-headed sim who tends to toss insults around more often than others and she and the mean sim have been a lot more unpleasant when they're angry. So this one does seem to work nicely, at least for me.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    17. Is it reality to think sane Sims would talk to a toilet to gain a buddy?

    I assume this is the City Living toilet? I don't use it so I wouldn't know to be honest.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    18. Is it reality to think all Sims in all worlds would get up and auto make the beds? really? they would never have a messy house, TS4 is the cleanest game yet.

    I agree on this one. It makes the neat trait a little redundant in some ways because, particularly lazy/slob sims most definitely wouldn't make the bed.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    19. Reality check, Sims would get rich (all of them) from selling veggies and or paintings. Each and every one of them. I'd like to have some of that magic.

    I'd love a bit of that myself. I don't get every single one become rich, in truth. I've found a way to avoid that with the painters; selling the paintings on the board that came with City Living. They don't sell every painting during the sale so this seems to work out (plus you set the price markup. Handy for simulating a less successful artist versus a more successful). I've taken to not selling paintings directly from the easel but instead, selling them at the Flea market or something similar. I don't sell veggies that often (usually stock the fridge with them) but I don't recall anyone getting really rich from that.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    20. Reality check, A Sim deleted is just erased from game, never existed. How do players square that Sim was the father or mother of a child? No one cares.

    I rarely delete anybody from the game for this very reason; I'd hate to think they never 'existed', so to speak. When I see townies in game dressed in something horrendous, I edit them in Manage Households, tweak them until they feel more like 'my' sims. I don't delete them though, especially if I find they do have families. I'd much rather add them to a household than delete, in all honesty. <3
    *All my mods can be found on The Daily Plumbob*MiAqoAE.png
  • elanorbretonelanorbreton Posts: 14,518 Member
    You ask How do reality players justify what fantasy they accept? But why does any player have to justify the way they play to anyone else? And what is a reality player anyway? We all know the sims has never been totally realistic.

    This thread comes across as just being a personal attack on any simmers who particularly like reality aspects in the game.

    But it is perfectly possible to enjoy having your sim cook or do the laundry one moment and then have them teleport to another world the next.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    You ask How do reality players justify what fantasy they accept? But why does any player have to justify the way they play to anyone else? And what is a reality player anyway? We all know the sims has never been totally realistic.

    This thread comes across as just being a personal attack on any simmers who particularly like reality aspects in the game.

    But it is perfectly possible to enjoy having your sim cook or do the laundry one moment and then have them teleport to another world the next.

    Since you asked. Because the more we accept a lack of simulation the less there will be. Makes sense doesn't it? For instance, since none of us are screaming about children deleted from game when the 'light' takes them devs haven't bothered to make Sim kids adoptable to other families like in 2 and 3. They no longer exist in game. Unlike the toddler discussions no one ever brings up the lack of reality there. I think I might be the only player on this forum this bugs enough to annoy me to bring it up.

    Lack of cars, since not many of us are fussing about the lack of reality and transportation we still don't have cars after five years. If it had been a big as deal as toddlers we might have seen them by now. The point was not to belittle other players to just point out we accept all sorts of things as 'reality' like no animations for going to a dresser anymore, but don't address the lack of life simulation going on in other areas. If it was more of a reality then Sims wouldn't be able to feed themselvs when there isn't any food on any lot at all, but they do.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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