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How Do Reality Players Justify What Fantasy They Accept In TS4?
Cinebar
Posts: 33,618 Member
This is not click bait nor to question other players, however, if some don't want occults in game, and or 'magic' can we have an honest conversation about short cuts, and the fantasy they actually do think is acceptable and makes sense? These things about TS4 have been bothering me for a long time. Developers also seem to cater to reality players but do they really? I don't think they do, all that much while players over look all the short cuts and claim the TS4 is reality and they want reality then why are we happy with all the things below?
1. If no one wants fantasy then why accept the Sim doesn't have to walk to a pc to order meds? Isn't that some sort of magically deligious meds that just appear in inventory?
2. Why is it accepted starving Sims can just 'magically' get food from some invisible pocket and eat it and not starve? Isn't that magic?
3. Why do Sims walk everywhere? Is that reality? really? they walked to the desert? Wouldn't that be a road trip? From the alps of WB to the desert seems to me they would at least need an appearance of some sort of transportation. Magic teleporting through a loading screen. Fantasy.
4. Sims don't have to walk to a dresser but just click on it and change clothes, or click on Sim. No opening drawers to see clothes inside anymore, isn't that fantasy to just click on a Sim and magically change the outfit? Time saver fantasy.
5. Reality check. Sims get some weird disease but even if you don't get the meds they will be fine in a few hours or less. Isn't that a fantasy they didn't even have to get meds or go to hospital?
6. Sims die and nowhere to bury them. Isn't that fantasy no one held a funeral nor were they placed in any graveyard? What happened to the body? It just poofed away.
7. Grim Reaper, even if he did exist in RL would he hang out and party with Sims? Millions die daily, wouldn't he be too busy? Fantasy accepted it seems.
8. The need and demand for reality..ok...then wouldn't there be death? Wouldn't there be hardships? Wouldn't there be divorces? Wouldn't there be child custody battles? Wouldn't there be burglars? Cars? Home telephones? Newspapers (in some towns), Grocery stores? Accepted fantasy of no need to go buy groceries, no need to worry about death, no need to worry about transportation, no need to worry about not being able to afford a $1000 iPhone, no need to ever worry about divorce, or cheaters and or lies and or a life ruined.
9. No repo of stuff if the bills aren't paid? No bankruptcy. But sure, TS4 is reality, Not.
10. Fire in a house and Sim magically pulls out fire extinisher from magic pockets. Oh, but don't give us magic, lol. No firemen or fire fighter whichever you prefer. A whole town without a City Hall, city government or city employees. Reality check.
11. Strays everywhere, but no animal patrol or animal control agency. Why do we accept this as reality. Reality players surely are distrubed by all this fantasy, right? But don't build more magic and or occults that would be catering to fantasy players.
12. I don't use the gender patch much. However, male frame can get pregnant? IF I'm wrong and it's the transfemale who gets pregnant ok, but if it's two male frames, isn't that some magic?
13. The argument of omg, don't abduct my males and get pregnant, alien babies, but all the above is accpeted as reality.
14. Social worker, fantasy to see a light and not a real Sim pull up and take away child. Wow, isn't that magic? Can't adopt the child into a different family but never complain about the lack of reality that the child just poofed away gone from game forever.
15. Isn't it fantasy to accept people would have only three trait slots? That they never inherited traits nor they never learned behaviors that became traits.
16. Is it reality to think no one ever fights and or slaps another and they just go take an angry poop?
17. Is it reality to think sane Sims would talk to a toilet to gain a buddy?
18. Is it reality to think all Sims in all worlds would get up and auto make the beds? really? they would never have a messy house, TS4 is the cleanest game yet.
19. Reality check, Sims would get rich (all of them) from selling veggies and or paintings. Each and every one of them. I'd like to have some of that magic.
20. Reality check, A Sim deleted is just erased from game, never existed. How do players square that Sim was the father or mother of a child? No one cares.
There are like ten zillion other short cut examples that only seem to bother me, is it reality every Sim in every world would own a cellphone? So, when people request Maxis not to create anymore lifestate packs and or 'magic' etc. I have to laugh and wonder where reality players willl draw the line.
1. If no one wants fantasy then why accept the Sim doesn't have to walk to a pc to order meds? Isn't that some sort of magically deligious meds that just appear in inventory?
2. Why is it accepted starving Sims can just 'magically' get food from some invisible pocket and eat it and not starve? Isn't that magic?
3. Why do Sims walk everywhere? Is that reality? really? they walked to the desert? Wouldn't that be a road trip? From the alps of WB to the desert seems to me they would at least need an appearance of some sort of transportation. Magic teleporting through a loading screen. Fantasy.
4. Sims don't have to walk to a dresser but just click on it and change clothes, or click on Sim. No opening drawers to see clothes inside anymore, isn't that fantasy to just click on a Sim and magically change the outfit? Time saver fantasy.
5. Reality check. Sims get some weird disease but even if you don't get the meds they will be fine in a few hours or less. Isn't that a fantasy they didn't even have to get meds or go to hospital?
6. Sims die and nowhere to bury them. Isn't that fantasy no one held a funeral nor were they placed in any graveyard? What happened to the body? It just poofed away.
7. Grim Reaper, even if he did exist in RL would he hang out and party with Sims? Millions die daily, wouldn't he be too busy? Fantasy accepted it seems.
8. The need and demand for reality..ok...then wouldn't there be death? Wouldn't there be hardships? Wouldn't there be divorces? Wouldn't there be child custody battles? Wouldn't there be burglars? Cars? Home telephones? Newspapers (in some towns), Grocery stores? Accepted fantasy of no need to go buy groceries, no need to worry about death, no need to worry about transportation, no need to worry about not being able to afford a $1000 iPhone, no need to ever worry about divorce, or cheaters and or lies and or a life ruined.
9. No repo of stuff if the bills aren't paid? No bankruptcy. But sure, TS4 is reality, Not.
10. Fire in a house and Sim magically pulls out fire extinisher from magic pockets. Oh, but don't give us magic, lol. No firemen or fire fighter whichever you prefer. A whole town without a City Hall, city government or city employees. Reality check.
11. Strays everywhere, but no animal patrol or animal control agency. Why do we accept this as reality. Reality players surely are distrubed by all this fantasy, right? But don't build more magic and or occults that would be catering to fantasy players.
12. I don't use the gender patch much. However, male frame can get pregnant? IF I'm wrong and it's the transfemale who gets pregnant ok, but if it's two male frames, isn't that some magic?
13. The argument of omg, don't abduct my males and get pregnant, alien babies, but all the above is accpeted as reality.
14. Social worker, fantasy to see a light and not a real Sim pull up and take away child. Wow, isn't that magic? Can't adopt the child into a different family but never complain about the lack of reality that the child just poofed away gone from game forever.
15. Isn't it fantasy to accept people would have only three trait slots? That they never inherited traits nor they never learned behaviors that became traits.
16. Is it reality to think no one ever fights and or slaps another and they just go take an angry poop?
17. Is it reality to think sane Sims would talk to a toilet to gain a buddy?
18. Is it reality to think all Sims in all worlds would get up and auto make the beds? really? they would never have a messy house, TS4 is the cleanest game yet.
19. Reality check, Sims would get rich (all of them) from selling veggies and or paintings. Each and every one of them. I'd like to have some of that magic.
20. Reality check, A Sim deleted is just erased from game, never existed. How do players square that Sim was the father or mother of a child? No one cares.
There are like ten zillion other short cut examples that only seem to bother me, is it reality every Sim in every world would own a cellphone? So, when people request Maxis not to create anymore lifestate packs and or 'magic' etc. I have to laugh and wonder where reality players willl draw the line.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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Comments
Life simulator. None of what I listed is a reflection of real life is it? But perfectly acceptable as not 'magic'. lol
Disappearing off lot is also not in line with what reality players should expect is it? One would expect a building (even if like TS3) and not an offworld place.
It does not have to be as realistic as possible. Also, people prefer diffetent things, it's so nice that Sims caters to a lot of people with a lot of different play styles and wishes.
If I don't want magic, it's possible(with limitations) and if I want everyone to be occult, it's posdible too. Why the hate?
I, for example, do not play with Vampires, still in ny Simsworld they exist and drain my Sims.
One of my sims solved the Strangerville mystery and I liked it.
In my Sulani are at least 10 mermaids I created.
I have a witch, but really do not like the fact of random sims getting spellcaster skills and I don't like my mail delivery girl to deliver my letters by broom.
It happens, I have to deal with it. But I understand that people like all this and I respect it, so please respect my style of game too
So you want the players who don’t mind Sims disappearing off the edge of the lot to now bundle themselves with the occult players because disappearing off the edge of the lot is not something that happens in real life?
Why so divisive?
I’m not sure why you wouldn’t just say in your OP that you’re tired of Sims teleporting and items appearing in their inventory immediately after ordering. I can agree with you to some extent on these points. But trying to connect these points to occult gameplay is where things get fuzzy. I don’t understand why you want to draw this connection.
I have read many complaints from others how they want reality in the game. But they perfectly accept everything I wrote as if it reflects reality when it doesn't. If they can accept those things I mentioned then I don't see where they ever got the idea The Sims is a reality game. They might request no more occult packs etc. however, are perfectly willing to accept TS4 as a reality game, when we know as a life simulator it is the most not simulated game ever. I have seen complaints about death, illness etc. in the same paragraphs as wanting reality. Well reality would include accidents, deaths, illness that led to death, and not some Utopia. It's a sort of strange for me to read those type of complaints knowing if they really want reality you have to take the bad with the good and not the happy, happy. Happy all the time isn't reality but they also accept that not having to walk to do something (like to the pc) is perfectly normal and reality play. When it's not.
I don't hate anyone or anything. Why the assumption. What I wrote speaks for itself. The game doesn't simulate reality but it is perfectly acceptable to accept as reality then request no vampire. That seems odd to me.
^^^
The Sims franchise was never based on "real life" though? Even Sims 1 had Grim Reaper, magic, ghosts, Bone Hilda, etc. The argument of, "The Sims is supposed to be a life simulator so the gameplay should reflect every single detail of real life"... never stands. You should know that. The first game was inspired by dramatic soap operas, wasn't it? Yes, it's a life simulator, but whose life? Not ours. It's never been ours, we only have opted to play it that way. It's always been fictional with real life parallels so that the player could relate to it and use it as they wanted.
Also, there's a whole world of "real life" out there, so which segment is the game supposed to represent? In earlier games it was loosely American middle class, late 1900s, but the player base is international now and we're in the 2000s. It's never going to please all players with realism because everyone's "reality" is different. So all players can do is request the details that they want to see in the game. For example, buying groceries. It's not in the game at all. Players can take fruits and vegetables and create a produce shop with the retail system if they want. But what about online ordering? The evolution of technology, at least in the US, allows people to order groceries online in many areas and have them delivered. This is essentially how it was done in Sims 2 (but not with a computer, it was through the fridge - was that magic too?) but in Sims 4 there is no way to do that. Personally, I don't care, but some people might. The point is, there are a bazillion elements to "real life" that are not going to make it into a video game. There are many, many details and lifestyles to consider, especially as time moves forward and technology/medicine/science/humanity/culture/regions evolve. This is probably why each base game focuses initially on modern lifestyles and trends. With every decade comes change, and every generation wants representation. But I'm digressing.
What you are actually pointing out is the lack of fine details that you got used to in previous games. There's no need to disguise it as "realistic" or "Occult" for the purpose of.... Actually, I can't even tell what exactly you're trying to accomplish with this thread? You've made these exact same arguments for five years now, over and over in a hundred other threads and I'm sure anyone who has come into the feedback section is well aware of how you feel by now, lol. Like other posters have said, you're just being divisive here.
You say in your OP that this post isn't click bait, but it actually seems to be. I'll just let @EA_Rtas and @EA_Mai decide.
This game series is at its best when it can appeal to many different players. There has been experimentation with trying to find that balance which appealed to some and didn't appeal to others. My only problem with supernatural players is when they deride other playstyles or insist that every pack that isn't supernaturally-focused is bad or that we're done with non-supernatural content so we should only make content for them now.
As mentioned above, there are different ways to play the game and that's totally ok. This is not an entirely fantasy-based series, it's meant to be entertaining and to give players a sandbox or platform or ... game to have fun with. Different players find different things to be fun and not even all supernatural players probably want the same things. I am perfectly happy to co-exist with supernatural players and I hope that they get what they are looking for. For some of the points you make, I have those. For example, I built my own graveyard. I've had funerals or visits to the graveyard. I've built some other specialist religious lots for future funerals when appropriate.
I might be able to come back to this topic later but essentially if you are saying that players shouldn't have different reactions to what is immersion-breaking and what isn't then I don't know, I disagree.
Insisting that we should all want the same things and play the same way just doesn't make sense.
I'm not sure how a vampire walking around in a town where your Sim never has to speak to it justifies it's no longer reality if a mythical creature is in the town when we just go ahead and accept it's not mythical to never buy groceries. Again, I think TS3 probably did this the right way more than even 1 or 2 by making the Sim have to go get some groceries for particular groups of food before they could cook something other than waffles. And as far as not wanting more myths in game, even if your Sim never has to engage with them, seems sort of funny sometimes when we see how townies dress in TS4. It's already weird, beyond belief some would walk around or show up in some of those outfits they pick, but ok as long as they have a human face. I'm not sure I see the difference. lol
I'll add this, I'm not sure people actually want reality either, when they say it, or there would be more requests for reality. I think they really mean Utopia, no matter the short cuts and or lack of simulation, as long as it really doesn't contain any consequences and or reflection of real life, and that's ok, if they would just go ahead and say it. They want Utopia, and no longer cloak it with a word like reality.
I might ask you why my opinion is divisive to you? Am I not allowed to say it, no matter how many ways I say it? I might think you are being contrary but I'm not going to say it. And I see my brand of humor is lost on some. What I'm trying to point out is if we really want realism in game (I want more) (and I want more mythical play, too) it would seem many who say they want realism isn't what they actually mean, when they also don't want death, illness, disablity, or consequences of bad choices. I just want people to speak plainly when they say realism.
Might I ask how many human looking Sims are needed to make it feel like it's a normal world? 500 to 1 occult Sim? I'm not understanding why some buy some pack knowing it contains other lifestates then say they want realism after supporting such a pack, when we have accepted Sims won't die, get sick and die, become perma disabled, or ever demand divorce and or leave a cheating Sim, and or it's ok to just click objects and Sims never even have to walk over to object. It's kind of odd to me at least, to buy packs with other lifestates in them, only to turn around and complain to get toggle to turn it off. If I buy a laundry pack, I assume I'm going to eventually be annoyed with laundry, but I'm not going to request laundry be turned off. The choice was mine.
I absolutely love witches because to me they're the most human like occult and witches do exist in real life. Can't say I've ever come across a werewolf or a zombie.
So for me realism, in terms of gameplay, has absolutely nothing to do with lack of consequences or believable animations and everything to do with human like vs occult.
May I ask since you are a realistic player, did you buy the packs that contain other lifestates in them? If withces are the only occult you like and or will tolerate in game did you also buy the other packs? I'm just wondering, I understand if people want the other content however, there seems to be this invisible line that people keep moving the goal posts of what is acceptable and what's not and or duplistic.
I have no problem with the former. Not a big fan of the latter.
Absolutely. I didn't say I couldn't tolerate other occults. I just don't play them. I actually have Vlad in my game but I've never played his household. When I buy supernatural packs I accept that some supernatural aspects might bleed over into my game.
I'll be honest with you because I know you can handle it. Your OP comes off as divisive because once you get past the opening paragraph, it's presented in bitter sarcasm. The list doesn't read as someone who is inviting discussion or receptively curious, it reads as the kind of salty humor thrown by someone who wants to spread discord without purpose, or to try to "catch" players in some kind of contradiction, both realistic and fantastical alike. It reads as if the poster doesn't really want to understand, because they are already inflexible and have made their own decision as to what makes "realistic" gameplay acceptable and what is considered "Occult". It seems that it may not have been your intention, so if it wasn't, my apologies, but there does seem to be a personal agenda in there as opposed to open invitation to discussion. And I think that's why the first several posts in this thread were questioning your intent and challenging your discussion.
Your post also implies that in order to define "realistic" gameplay, the game must include that list of your personal demands, or else it negates the play style of players who prefer realism. And by the same token, also implies that Occult players should have, all this time, been happy because we already have "magic" in the game in the form of animation limitations. I'm sorry, but this is preposterous, lol. And you seem unreceptive to the fact that within play style "types", there are always variations of preference.
It is clear that you want specific things in your Sims game in order to be able to enjoy it. We all have our checklists of demands, so to speak, whether we are realistic, fantastical, builder, generational, deviant or any other type of player. And to be honest, I don't think any player is thoroughly one single type, but a combination of percentages of various styles. I consider myself mostly fantastical and rotational/colonist. But I do like to play generational on top of these styles when the game allows for a good attraction system because for me, families start with single Sims who have to date and find someone they connect in some way with. So I find myself joined with "realistic" players in many threads asking for chemistry, attraction, personal preferences and detailed personalities. My reasons may be different, but the desire for that content is the same.
I personally don't care about those "realistic" details of opening drawers or going to a grocery store. I don't care about laundry or knitting, but sometimes when those things are in my game, I do use them once in a great while because they suit a specific household. (I play a LOT of households.) I still hate rabbit hole buildings and I'm chagrined to see Sims 4 taking on that style. To me, it's a waste of time for my Sim to travel to a building that has no gameplay. I'd rather they go out the door and disappear to their destination, leaving me to play my other household Sims in peace, not have to make sure they got there in time. And like in Sulani, going all the way to a cave entrance or dive at a buoy just to have my Sim disappear and leave me staring at scenery. I just hate rabbit hole locations. They are time wasters, especially in the open world of Sims 3. I know that other players find that they add more immersion but it's one of the many reasons I didn't play Sims 3. I want to do fun things with my Sims in the short time they have in a day, not watch them travel back and forth and waste time while their needs decay. And I just think that if my Sim is going to head to a location, that location should be playable in some way. Otherwise, why leave the house?
Anyway, to return to the Occult vs Realistic player in terms of pack releases and purchasing content and how that content plays in the game, I have had pretty much the same opinion I've had since Vampires came out. If a pack is created specifically catering to Occult/Fantastical players for the reason that toggles will not be a thing in Sims 4, then I strongly believe that those packs should not hold back or be gimped down the line for players who only bought them for the CAS/build/buy. I know that separate packs are not the best solution for those who like to play Occults occasionally, and it's unfortunate, so I still think that there should be in game "triggers" to set Occults in full swing, like studying about them and finding out they exist, or approaching one on the street. But I also think they should still have a subtle presence in the game regardless because that's the purpose of having a themed pack in the first place. Realm of Magic really disappointed me in this regard because I wanted to see Sims using magic all over the world, but that was scrapped in favor of players who didn't want a magical presence at all, yet bought a pack dedicated to magic. I mean, what?? Just...no. Now, if an Occult comes in an EP, I can accept that their existence will remain unknown, because an EP is a broader pack that caters to a broader player base. I love the Alien abductions, but they should have come with a condition, like in Sims 2 with using the telescope at night. There is an item that can keep them away, but I understand why that's not really practical for "realistic" players. I also didn't like when Alien abductions were nerfed due to complaints, but at least I get why. Aliens should have had their own Game Pack if they didn't come with a telescope trigger.
I'm stopping here because this post is too long and I have to "get to work", lol.
The vampire pack had the victorian era furniture and deco to make fixer upper homes. That helps my reality play of making Victorian and Edwardian era homes. That is just why I bought it. I mod out vampires, but I have to watch for it to become outdated. The flaw was including that style of decor only with an occult.
As for ordering and getting it directly in the inventory, that is a flaw of the game engine. I work in a grocery store that does ONLINE orders. Myself and other co-workers shop for it and deliver it to people IRL. Pharmacies have a similar service.
The teleport and walking everywhere aspect is also a game engine flaw. They are attempting to band-aid that by giving bikes, boats, jet-skis, and brooms for spell casters.
What you are confusing as reality verses occult are game engine flaws to actual occult.
Cheating death by save scumming
Using cheats to fill needs when its not convenient to attend to them
Using ambrosia or any other of the many ways to revive dead sims
Money trees
Reward store traits
etc
I consider them 'fantasy' players. They don't want realism, they want a fictional perfect life or perfect story to fit in with what they want to tell. Not that there's anything at all wrong with that, but it's not realism. Real life is unpredictable, sometimes heartbreaking, sometimes more perfect in the moment than you can imagine.