I honestly don't know what flirting is supposed to be like in real life, and The Sims is very cartoonish, so I don't really mind? I did kinda notice it when I was trying to have two guys flirt with eachother, though.
But yeah, if we DID get a set of masculine flirting animations, I'd love it if they were accessible to everyone. I'm always for breaking gender norms, and I must admit I already like it when the man jumps into the woman's arms. It's cute.
We might as well stop male sims from crying while we are at it because it is too "feminine" (!)
But to keep some players like yourself happy - maybe an option to make them "masculine" or "feminine" which I do not see a big issue in it as after all they are sims... not humans
@Finbar659
I don't think anyone was suggesting masculine Sims shouldn't cry. There can be both more masculine interactions and crying. One doesn't have to cancel out the other. I'm not coming for you at all, but I didn't sense that from any of the comments.
Honestly, if a man can cry in front of me it's a turn on not necessarily in let's go woohoo, but it shows strength when men can express their emotions. I've always loved that and the swagger they had and confidence when they wanted to get to know me.
I was being sarcastic. Hence the "(!)" at the end of the sentence
Well I've never seen that being used for sarcasm. Considering the type of responses on this forum regarding this subject, I thought you were being serious. In general, my comment still stands.
I just hate the interaction where the man jumps in the woman’s arms and not the other way around. Very unrealistic.
I've actually seen this happen before. Not all men care about appearing "masculine" or whatever. Not even sure what people mean by "masculine flirting" since it usually just translates to douchiness or sexual aggression in real life. Flirting is just flirting.
I don't really play with male sims so it is something I have never thought of before but now that I think about it, there are some animations that really don't fit a more "masculine" type sim. Sadly, I don't think anything will change about it (if they did great! I like to hope.) this late in the game.
I know making a game with so many animations can take time and if you are on a deadline, you try to find an in between where it can sort of work as an all rounder for both male and female sims. In some ways I do think there is a little bit of laziness as well, like the counters and the island counters. The islands counters are just a counter base with just a long work top, that's it. So I think it is the same thing for the animations too sadly.
Like I said I can only hope that something can/will be done but for now if we have to use mods then that is what some ppl will do.
To be honest, it has bothered me quite a bit that since Sims 3 it has been tougher to make male sims that don't look like a ken doll. It's a challenge to make a macho guy type sim.
And I like my sims to reflect all the kinds of people you'll meet in real life. Nothing wrong with positive masculinity, masculinity in itself is not toxic. Just like being feminine isn't bad, but making it hard for little girls to have clothing that isn't pink is.
So apart from making the walk styles affect some animations so that sims with the macho walk will perform various interactions in a more masculine way, there's more I'd want to see.
-Bring back body hair.
Most men don't shave off all body hair. Body hair being non-existent is just weird. They tend to have some hair on their arms and legs.
When sims 3 finally got that later on, it helped a lot with creating more masculine looking men.
-Add more facial hair options.
They rarely add facial hair options at all, maybe 3-4 got added since release. We need a lot more. Every expansion should add at least one option there.
-Bring alcohol back to the series.
It's rediculous they removed it. Let sims watch sports games with a beer. Show bad effects of drinking too much alcohol too. If sims can have the alcoholic trait in sims medieval and drink lots of wine and beer, why not have it in the main series?
I feel you! In The sims I always found these animations way to feminine and then when we have some masculine animations they do not look good on females either. I wish they would make a set of two animations and that we can choose in CAS how our sims acts in animation: feminine or masculine. Everyone happy
I think it is perfectly fine to ask for these type of animations and situations. We have particular walks, very feminine, one more manily in my view, but I don't recall the name of it at the moment. Why not have flirty animations that also reflect the Sim? If we want to be all inclusive then let's not leave out the male gender and how some men aren't so feminine with their responces or moves. Let's go even deeper, a shy male or female wouldn't be all up in the face but flirt in a more shy way. An outgoing guy would be more confident with their moves. My husband doesn't flirt the way these male Sims do in this game, nor does he even have a reaction like these male Sims, so let's not leave out his type, either.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I just hate the interaction where the man jumps in the woman’s arms and not the other way around. Very unrealistic.
I've actually seen this happen before. Not all men care about appearing "masculine" or whatever. Not even sure what people mean by "masculine flirting" since it usually just translates to douchiness or sexual aggression in real life. Flirting is just flirting.
But some men dont try to "appear" manly. They just are. And some women actually like manly , masculine men. I do. So I would like the choice for some of my sims to reflect that.
I'd rather married straight men don't suddenly flirt with other men.
My married Sims never flirt with anyone but their spouses. Even the romantically inclined ones. Would them suddenly flirting with women who aren't their wife be okay? If so, your problem isn't with the flirting.
I just hate the interaction where the man jumps in the woman’s arms and not the other way around. Very unrealistic.
I've actually seen this happen before. Not all men care about appearing "masculine" or whatever. Not even sure what people mean by "masculine flirting" since it usually just translates to douchiness or sexual aggression in real life. Flirting is just flirting.
But some men dont try to "appear" manly. They just are. And some women actually like manly , masculine men. I do. So I would like the choice for some of my sims to reflect that.
Interesting. That particular animation seems rather neutral to me (whether flirting or being flirted with)
Really? The man putting his hand up to his face after being flirted with seems masculine to you? To me it seems like a VERY feminine reaction.
Edit: I'm not trying to start arguements here. These are entirely MY OPINIONS and am wanting input from other Sim Players.
You know, I hadn't really thought about this, but you're right! I'm probably going to notice this a lot more now
This thread has been a great read all round, and yes, that passionate kiss would be embarrassing in real life in a public place! SO dramatic!
I thought the whole point of being macho and masculine is that you dont show emotion LOL. If that's the case then our Male sims shouldn't be animated at all. Too girly.
There's a clear distinction between being manly and hiding your feelings.
There is also a difference between acting silly by refusing help to appear strong, or accepting help and showing you aren't afraid to seek help when needed, which can be a bigger challenge to strong tough types as they'd see it as weakeness. It isn't always wise to bottle up your emotions or feelings to a point you appear to be a frozen statue, especially when you are in way over your head.
I like male sims to be more masculine with masculine interactions with the females.
And I like female sims to be more feminine with feminine interactions with the males.
I have had a couple of charismatic male sims, who are clearly very confident, and every now and again they toss back their heads, give their hair a flick and look really pleased with themselves. I quite like that
I have to agree as a male the flirting looks very awkward from a straight male perspective. More to the point if I flirted like that with a women at a "venue", she would probably lose interest pretty fast or assume I'm probably not really into women. You can call this whatever you want but we react unconsciously from body language that dictates our responses plus they certainly could have chosen a more "neutral" flirting animation.
However with all that said I just chalked it up to Sims 4 weirdness, I mean the woohoo acceptance animation involves a fist pump into the air.
When was the last time you pumped your fist into the air when a partner agreed to uh...woohoo in real life? I suspect you might get a laugh the first time but after that well...I don't the reaction will be the same lol. I mean we have a "bro" trait in this game that I suspect never gets used but they invested time in creating it...
It seems to me that OP has a specific (personal) view of what "masculine" and "feminine" are, and that may not be universally the same.
Even though Sims is an American game and thus based in many American traditions and behaviours, which do seem more polarised when it comes to gendered behaviour, it is also trying to cater to the rest of the world.
So really, the key issue would actually be how to define what OP is asking for without using the word "masculine", since it may mean different things to different people.
Personally, the animations never bothered me for reasons others have expressed; they are cartoonish and funny. The whole concept of flirting and wohooing in the game is in itself very unrealistic, so I don't expect my Sims to behave like real life humans. More variation would be great, for the sake of having my Sims behave more in line with their general traits. I'd love for my butch lesbian to be really awkward at flirting and my romantic straight male Sim to be over the top, for example.
I think we need a big update on flirting in general, I feel like Sims act a little too childish when flirting with one another, and even though I don't really care about femininity or masculinity, I still feel the animations are missing that sense of maturity, like romance in The Sims 2 had.
An Attraction System, Flirtation Styles, and maybe Feminine, Masculine, and neutral option should be added (so long as they don't go to extremes if we only get the two options).
So really, the key issue would actually be how to define what OP is asking for without using the word "masculine", since it may mean different things to different people.
Why go to all that trouble? It’s a perfectly good word and it fits what the OP is asking for.
Definition: having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness.
It seems to me that OP has a specific (personal) view of what "masculine" and "feminine" are, and that may not be universally the same.
Even though Sims is an American game and thus based in many American traditions and behaviours, which do seem more polarised when it comes to gendered behaviour, it is also trying to cater to the rest of the world.
So really, the key issue would actually be how to define what OP is asking for without using the word "masculine", since it may mean different things to different people.
Personally, the animations never bothered me for reasons others have expressed; they are cartoonish and funny. The whole concept of flirting and wohooing in the game is in itself very unrealistic, so I don't expect my Sims to behave like real life humans. More variation would be great, for the sake of having my Sims behave more in line with their general traits. I'd love for my butch lesbian to be really awkward at flirting and my romantic straight male Sim to be over the top, for example.
You make an astute point! Masculinity and Femininity are quite different, and perceived differently depending on the culture you are speaking about, so defining the two is quite difficult, especially when it's a concept created from societal pressure towards males and females to act in their stereotypical fashion - The man has to act in this way, and the woman in the other way.
Comments
But yeah, if we DID get a set of masculine flirting animations, I'd love it if they were accessible to everyone. I'm always for breaking gender norms, and I must admit I already like it when the man jumps into the woman's arms. It's cute.
they/he
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Well I've never seen that being used for sarcasm. Considering the type of responses on this forum regarding this subject, I thought you were being serious. In general, my comment still stands.
@Finbar659
I've actually seen this happen before. Not all men care about appearing "masculine" or whatever. Not even sure what people mean by "masculine flirting" since it usually just translates to douchiness or sexual aggression in real life. Flirting is just flirting.
I know making a game with so many animations can take time and if you are on a deadline, you try to find an in between where it can sort of work as an all rounder for both male and female sims. In some ways I do think there is a little bit of laziness as well, like the counters and the island counters. The islands counters are just a counter base with just a long work top, that's it. So I think it is the same thing for the animations too sadly.
Like I said I can only hope that something can/will be done but for now if we have to use mods then that is what some ppl will do.
And I like my sims to reflect all the kinds of people you'll meet in real life. Nothing wrong with positive masculinity, masculinity in itself is not toxic. Just like being feminine isn't bad, but making it hard for little girls to have clothing that isn't pink is.
So apart from making the walk styles affect some animations so that sims with the macho walk will perform various interactions in a more masculine way, there's more I'd want to see.
-Bring back body hair.
Most men don't shave off all body hair. Body hair being non-existent is just weird. They tend to have some hair on their arms and legs.
When sims 3 finally got that later on, it helped a lot with creating more masculine looking men.
-Add more facial hair options.
They rarely add facial hair options at all, maybe 3-4 got added since release. We need a lot more. Every expansion should add at least one option there.
-Bring alcohol back to the series.
It's rediculous they removed it. Let sims watch sports games with a beer. Show bad effects of drinking too much alcohol too. If sims can have the alcoholic trait in sims medieval and drink lots of wine and beer, why not have it in the main series?
Burt Reynolds must be turning over in his grave.
But some men dont try to "appear" manly. They just are. And some women actually like manly , masculine men. I do. So I would like the choice for some of my sims to reflect that.
My married Sims never flirt with anyone but their spouses. Even the romantically inclined ones. Would them suddenly flirting with women who aren't their wife be okay? If so, your problem isn't with the flirting.
Yep, more choices would benefit all
You know, I hadn't really thought about this, but you're right! I'm probably going to notice this a lot more now
This thread has been a great read all round, and yes, that passionate kiss would be embarrassing in real life in a public place! SO dramatic!
There's a clear distinction between being manly and hiding your feelings.
And I like female sims to be more feminine with feminine interactions with the males.
However with all that said I just chalked it up to Sims 4 weirdness, I mean the woohoo acceptance animation involves a fist pump into the air.
When was the last time you pumped your fist into the air when a partner agreed to uh...woohoo in real life? I suspect you might get a laugh the first time but after that well...I don't the reaction will be the same lol. I mean we have a "bro" trait in this game that I suspect never gets used but they invested time in creating it...
Even though Sims is an American game and thus based in many American traditions and behaviours, which do seem more polarised when it comes to gendered behaviour, it is also trying to cater to the rest of the world.
So really, the key issue would actually be how to define what OP is asking for without using the word "masculine", since it may mean different things to different people.
Personally, the animations never bothered me for reasons others have expressed; they are cartoonish and funny. The whole concept of flirting and wohooing in the game is in itself very unrealistic, so I don't expect my Sims to behave like real life humans. More variation would be great, for the sake of having my Sims behave more in line with their general traits. I'd love for my butch lesbian to be really awkward at flirting and my romantic straight male Sim to be over the top, for example.
An Attraction System, Flirtation Styles, and maybe Feminine, Masculine, and neutral option should be added (so long as they don't go to extremes if we only get the two options).
Why go to all that trouble? It’s a perfectly good word and it fits what the OP is asking for.
Definition: having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness.
You make an astute point! Masculinity and Femininity are quite different, and perceived differently depending on the culture you are speaking about, so defining the two is quite difficult, especially when it's a concept created from societal pressure towards males and females to act in their stereotypical fashion - The man has to act in this way, and the woman in the other way.